Discussion: Flat Grey Visual Theme

[Jacques Le Roux]

Ryan Foster wrote:

> inline...
>
> Ryan L. Foster
> 801.671.0769
> [hidden email]
>
> On Jan 6, 2011, at 11:38 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>
>> Ryan Foster wrote:
>>> Jacques,
>>>
>>> I understand your concerns about support, and your thoughts on the themes has some valid points.  However, in regards to the
>>> BizznessTime theme, I never really intended for that to be "my" theme anyway.  I always viewed it as a community theme as that
>>> was it's original intent and it was truly a collaborative effort to build it between myself, my colleagues at HotWax, BrainFood,
>>> and other members of the the OFBiz community.
>>
>> Right, sorry for that Ryan. It's only because I know you were one of  the "fathers" (the most important I guess) and helped much
>> at the beginning, my apologies.
>>
>>> At any rate, my time issues and focus have shifted significantly over the last few months as I have left HotWax and gone into
>>> independent consulting and freelance development.  I plan on taking a much more active role in the community in the months and
>>> years ahead.
>>
>> That's really a good, very good news!
>>
>>> As far as theme contributions go, I wonder if maybe it would be a good idea to have a theme repo outside of the trunk that
>>> individuals could commit to?  The problem with theme maintenance once a new theme has been added to the trunk is that not
>>> everyone has commit privileges to the trunk.  This makes the process of maintenance a lot more time consuming for individual
>>> contributors as they have to rely on patches, updates, collaboration, etc, rather than just monitoring and maintaining their own
>>> code.
>>
>> This could certainly be discussed as themes are no blocking parts as long as *at least one works "perfectly"* (another way is to
>> become committer), opinions?
>
> I think the way that Magento and Wordpress do it are good examples.  With Wordpress, there is one "official" theme that is
> included with the install, but there are literally thousands of themes that are not maintained by Wordpress that they list on
> there site http://wordpress.org/extend/themes/, and now with the 3.0 release you can even search for new themes and install them
> automatically from inside your Wordpress install.  Doing it this way fosters wider community support by delegating maintenance of
> these themes to individual contributors rather than forcing it on a handful of committers and also allows developers to monetize
> there contributions by offering "premium" themes and plugins.  In fact, there are many individuals and companies in the Wordpress
> community that make their living solely by selling themes and plugins.  This furthers solidifies the base of support for the
> project by offering a mid-tier option for someone who wants something more than OOTB but can't necessarily afford custom
> development.

This makes good sense indeed. The only difference, I guess, is unfortunately the width of the audience. This does not mean that we
should not try...

Jacques

>>
>> Jacques
>>
>>
>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>> 801.671.0769
>>> [hidden email]
>>>
>>> On Jan 6, 2011, at 8:17 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>
>>>> From my perspective, I don't see much chance in the Flat Grey visual theme being abandoned. Enough people use it that it will
>>>> get the attention it needs. If Ryan isn't available to fix something, I can fix it. If I'm not available, someone else could
>>>> fix it, etc.
>>>>
>>>> -Adrian
>>>>
>>>> On 1/6/2011 6:02 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>> Ryan,
>>>>>
>>>>> Your screen copies at https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-4092
>>>>> looks really great! Looking forward for the implementation...
>>>>>
>>>>> My concerns are that maybe you will not have enough time later to keep
>>>>> up with possible bugs or other issues. Look for instance what happened
>>>>> to Bizzness Time https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-2398.
>>>>>
>>>>> Even if it looks a bit old, we have a theme which works great. Why
>>>>> taking any risks with it? Also I can't see any issues with having more
>>>>> themes. The more we have the better, I like to have the choice. Some
>>>>> (rare) people prefer to use old things, see games machines or
>>>>> synthesizers for instance (I still love the DX-7 sound
>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_DX7
>>>>> http://www.vintagesynth.com/yamaha/dx7.php)
>>>>>
>>>>> There are any evolved version of Flat Grey yet. So this could be the 1st
>>>>> modern one still using the RTL mechanism introduced by Adrian. Just
>>>>> choice the name!
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>
>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>
>>>>> Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>>> IMO I see no reason to have a "Flat Grey Evolution" theme. Adrian is
>>>>>> right, the Flat Grey theme hasn't had a visual update in
>>>>>> years and it looks very dated. It needs some love. Let's not add
>>>>>> another improved version, let's just improve the version we
>>>>>> have now. I think that is more efficient and more beneficial in the
>>>>>> long run.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As far as the tabs go, we can still keep a horizontal, tab-like
>>>>>> navigation without actually having the tabs look like tabs.
>>>>>> Because, the absolutely do look terrible displayed in two rows.
>>>>>> Adrian, I would be happy to collaborate with you on this. I
>>>>>> think I have some ideas that could help. Email me directly if you want
>>>>>> to hash out some ideas outside of this mailing list
>>>>>> discussion.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Consequently, as far as new admin themes go, I guess I can use this as
>>>>>> an opportunity as well to drop a teaser about a new theme
>>>>>> I have been working on already for some time now that I honestly hope
>>>>>> will become the go-to theme for scalability and
>>>>>> customization, and that will eventually replace the Flat Grey theme
>>>>>> altogether. The new theme scales down very well to 800x600
>>>>>> and has minimal styling for maximum flexibility and customization.
>>>>>> Stay tuned for more details in the next few days...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jan 3, 2011, at 11:04 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Chiclet refers to a brand of chewing gum. The tabs look like pieces
>>>>>>> of Chiclets chewing gum. They look terrible when they are
>>>>>>> displayed in two rows.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --- On Mon, 1/3/11, Jacques Le Roux <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> By "chiclet" main navigation style,
>>>>>>>> you mean the tabs? Then I think we should keep Flat Grey as
>>>>>>>> it is (because there are advantages
>>>>>>>> to have tabs) and create a Flat Grey evolution...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> From: "Adrian Crum" <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>> I was thinking we could use colors from the Apache logo
>>>>>>>> and the BizznessTime theme. I would also like to get rid of
>>>>>>>> the "chiclet"
>>>>>>>>> main navigation style, and maybe have that menu in a
>>>>>>>> collapsible left column.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --- On Sun, 1/2/11, Sascha Rodekamp
>>>>>>>>> <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> From: Sascha Rodekamp <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Discussion: Flat Grey Visual Theme
>>>>>>>>>> To: [hidden email],
>>>>>>>> "Jacques Le Roux" <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>> Date: Sunday, January 2, 2011, 2:27 AM
>>>>>>>>>> I really would appreciate to keep the
>>>>>>>>>> Flat Gray. But you're right it needs a
>>>>>>>>>> few visual improvements.
>>>>>>>>>> Let me think about this, maybe somethink comes to
>>>>>>>> my mind
>>>>>>>>>> ..... :-)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 2010/12/29 Jacques Le Roux <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> IIRW, it's the only really RTL capable. So a big YES to keep it,
>>>>>>>>>>> of course.
>>>>>>>>>>> I have no ideas though :/
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Adrian Crum" <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The Flat Grey visual theme is getting old.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The current version of the theme is based on the original look
>>>>>>>>>>>> and feel of
>>>>>>>>>>>> OFBiz when I first joined the community - back in 2004. Around
>>>>>>>>>>>> the Spring of
>>>>>>>>>>>> 2007 I added some gradient gifs to make the original style a
>>>>>>>>>>>> little more
>>>>>>>>>>>> interesting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> After that, the visual theme was converted to a floating
>>>>>>>>>>>> flexible layout
>>>>>>>>>>>> (to fit any size screen), it was made
>>>>>>>>>> sight-impaired accessible (font size
>>>>>>>>>>>> can be changed), and it added support for bi-directional layout
>>>>>>>>>>>> (for rtl
>>>>>>>>>>>> languages). Those design decisions were made by the OFBiz
>>>>>>>>>>>> community and, in
>>>>>>>>>>>> my opinion, continue to make the Flat Grey theme the fallback
>>>>>>>>>>>> theme when all
>>>>>>>>>>>> else fails. It just works.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Despite its advantages, it looks dated. I would like to update
>>>>>>>>>>>> it to make
>>>>>>>>>>>> it more modern, but maintain its advantages over the other
>>>>>>>>>>>> themes. I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking it only needs css and gif file updates. The current
>>>>>>>>>>>> templates and
>>>>>>>>>>>> javascripts would be maintained.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> If anyone is interested, they are welcome to help out. I would also
>>>>>>>>>>>> appreciate any suggestions or comments.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me know what you think.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Sascha Rodekamp
>>>>>>>>>> Lynx-Consulting GmbH
>>>>>>>>>> Johanniskirchplatz 6
>>>>>>>>>> D-33615 Bielefeld
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.lynx.de 

[Jacques Le Roux]

Adrian Crum wrote:

> On 1/6/2011 11:11 AM, Ryan Foster wrote:
>> I think the way that Magento and Wordpress do it are good examples.  With Wordpress, there is one "official" theme that is
>> included with the install, but there are literally thousands of themes that are not maintained by Wordpress that they list on
>> there site http://wordpress.org/extend/themes/, and now with the 3.0 release you can even search for new themes and install them
>> automatically from inside your Wordpress install.  Doing it this way fosters wider community support by delegating maintenance
>> of these themes to individual contributors rather than forcing it on a handful of committers and also allows developers to
>> monetize there contributions by offering "premium" themes and plugins.  In fact, there are many individuals and companies in the
>> Wordpress community that make their living solely by selling themes and plugins.  This furthers solidifies the base of support
>> for the project by offering a mid-tier option for someone who wants something more than OOTB but can't      
> necessarily afford custom development.
>
> This was discussed when we first added visual theme capability. There is
> nothing blocking third-party visual themes being offered on other sites.
> It was suggested that OFBiz have only one theme, but the decision was
> made to have more than one so that visual theme selection could be
> demonstrated.
> -Adrian

I guess Ryan would hope to have a mechanism to handle it graciously

Jacques

[Bruno Busco]

Yes, having more than one theme in the trunk was originally accepted in
order to use and show the visual theme selection feature OOTB.
Actually Bluelight, Dropping Crumbs and Tomahawk are one the evolution of
the other.
Each time we decided to create a new theme instead of replacing the one
existing just to avoid problems to users.

My proposal is to remove Bluelight, Dropping Crumbs and BizznessTime from
the trunk and put them in a separate themes repository as suggested by Ryan.
Remove the actual version of the Flat Grey from the trunk and put it in the
themes repository.
Improve the Flat Grey theme in the trunk with the work you guys are doing.

In this way we will have in the trunk two themes for the backend (Actual
FlatGrey and Tomahawk) and two themes for the ecommerce (Default and
Multiflex).
In the themes repository there will be Bluelight, Dropping Crumbs,
BizznessTime and the actual FlatGrey.
It could be a nice start for the theme repository (and gallery) start.

-Bruno



2011/1/6 Jacques Le Roux <[hidden email]>

> Ryan Foster wrote:
>
>> inline...
>>
>> Ryan L. Foster
>> 801.671.0769
>> [hidden email]
>>
>> On Jan 6, 2011, at 11:38 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>
>>  Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>
>>>> Jacques,
>>>>
>>>> I understand your concerns about support, and your thoughts on the
>>>> themes has some valid points.  However, in regards to the
>>>> BizznessTime theme, I never really intended for that to be "my" theme
>>>> anyway.  I always viewed it as a community theme as that
>>>> was it's original intent and it was truly a collaborative effort to
>>>> build it between myself, my colleagues at HotWax, BrainFood,
>>>> and other members of the the OFBiz community.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Right, sorry for that Ryan. It's only because I know you were one of  the
>>> "fathers" (the most important I guess) and helped much
>>> at the beginning, my apologies.
>>>
>>>  At any rate, my time issues and focus have shifted significantly over
>>>> the last few months as I have left HotWax and gone into
>>>> independent consulting and freelance development.  I plan on taking a
>>>> much more active role in the community in the months and
>>>> years ahead.
>>>>
>>>
>>> That's really a good, very good news!
>>>
>>>  As far as theme contributions go, I wonder if maybe it would be a good
>>>> idea to have a theme repo outside of the trunk that
>>>> individuals could commit to?  The problem with theme maintenance once a
>>>> new theme has been added to the trunk is that not
>>>> everyone has commit privileges to the trunk.  This makes the process of
>>>> maintenance a lot more time consuming for individual
>>>> contributors as they have to rely on patches, updates, collaboration,
>>>> etc, rather than just monitoring and maintaining their own
>>>> code.
>>>>
>>>
>>> This could certainly be discussed as themes are no blocking parts as long
>>> as *at least one works "perfectly"* (another way is to
>>> become committer), opinions?
>>>
>>
>> I think the way that Magento and Wordpress do it are good examples.  With
>> Wordpress, there is one "official" theme that is
>> included with the install, but there are literally thousands of themes
>> that are not maintained by Wordpress that they list on
>> there site http://wordpress.org/extend/themes/, and now with the 3.0
>> release you can even search for new themes and install them
>> automatically from inside your Wordpress install.  Doing it this way
>> fosters wider community support by delegating maintenance of
>> these themes to individual contributors rather than forcing it on a
>> handful of committers and also allows developers to monetize
>> there contributions by offering "premium" themes and plugins.  In fact,
>> there are many individuals and companies in the Wordpress
>> community that make their living solely by selling themes and plugins.
>>  This furthers solidifies the base of support for the
>> project by offering a mid-tier option for someone who wants something more
>> than OOTB but can't necessarily afford custom
>> development.
>>
>
> This makes good sense indeed. The only difference, I guess, is
> unfortunately the width of the audience. This does not mean that we should
> not try...
>
> Jacques
>
>
>
>>> Jacques
>>>
>>>
>>>  Ryan L. Foster
>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 6, 2011, at 8:17 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  From my perspective, I don't see much chance in the Flat Grey visual
>>>>> theme being abandoned. Enough people use it that it will
>>>>> get the attention it needs. If Ryan isn't available to fix something, I
>>>>> can fix it. If I'm not available, someone else could
>>>>> fix it, etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>
>>>>> On 1/6/2011 6:02 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Ryan,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Your screen copies at
>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-4092
>>>>>> looks really great! Looking forward for the implementation...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My concerns are that maybe you will not have enough time later to keep
>>>>>> up with possible bugs or other issues. Look for instance what happened
>>>>>> to Bizzness Time https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-2398.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Even if it looks a bit old, we have a theme which works great. Why
>>>>>> taking any risks with it? Also I can't see any issues with having more
>>>>>> themes. The more we have the better, I like to have the choice. Some
>>>>>> (rare) people prefer to use old things, see games machines or
>>>>>> synthesizers for instance (I still love the DX-7 sound
>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_DX7
>>>>>> http://www.vintagesynth.com/yamaha/dx7.php)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There are any evolved version of Flat Grey yet. So this could be the
>>>>>> 1st
>>>>>> modern one still using the RTL mechanism introduced by Adrian. Just
>>>>>> choice the name!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> IMO I see no reason to have a "Flat Grey Evolution" theme. Adrian is
>>>>>>> right, the Flat Grey theme hasn't had a visual update in
>>>>>>> years and it looks very dated. It needs some love. Let's not add
>>>>>>> another improved version, let's just improve the version we
>>>>>>> have now. I think that is more efficient and more beneficial in the
>>>>>>> long run.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As far as the tabs go, we can still keep a horizontal, tab-like
>>>>>>> navigation without actually having the tabs look like tabs.
>>>>>>> Because, the absolutely do look terrible displayed in two rows.
>>>>>>> Adrian, I would be happy to collaborate with you on this. I
>>>>>>> think I have some ideas that could help. Email me directly if you
>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>> to hash out some ideas outside of this mailing list
>>>>>>> discussion.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Consequently, as far as new admin themes go, I guess I can use this
>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>> an opportunity as well to drop a teaser about a new theme
>>>>>>> I have been working on already for some time now that I honestly hope
>>>>>>> will become the go-to theme for scalability and
>>>>>>> customization, and that will eventually replace the Flat Grey theme
>>>>>>> altogether. The new theme scales down very well to 800x600
>>>>>>> and has minimal styling for maximum flexibility and customization.
>>>>>>> Stay tuned for more details in the next few days...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jan 3, 2011, at 11:04 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  Chiclet refers to a brand of chewing gum. The tabs look like pieces
>>>>>>>> of Chiclets chewing gum. They look terrible when they are
>>>>>>>> displayed in two rows.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --- On Mon, 1/3/11, Jacques Le Roux <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> By "chiclet" main navigation style,
>>>>>>>>> you mean the tabs? Then I think we should keep Flat Grey as
>>>>>>>>> it is (because there are advantages
>>>>>>>>> to have tabs) and create a Flat Grey evolution...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> From: "Adrian Crum" <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I was thinking we could use colors from the Apache logo
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> and the BizznessTime theme. I would also like to get rid of
>>>>>>>>> the "chiclet"
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> main navigation style, and maybe have that menu in a
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> collapsible left column.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --- On Sun, 1/2/11, Sascha Rodekamp
>>>>>>>>>> <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>  From: Sascha Rodekamp <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Discussion: Flat Grey Visual Theme
>>>>>>>>>>> To: [hidden email],
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Jacques Le Roux" <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Date: Sunday, January 2, 2011, 2:27 AM
>>>>>>>>>>> I really would appreciate to keep the
>>>>>>>>>>> Flat Gray. But you're right it needs a
>>>>>>>>>>> few visual improvements.
>>>>>>>>>>> Let me think about this, maybe somethink comes to
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> my mind
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ..... :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> 2010/12/29 Jacques Le Roux <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>  IIRW, it's the only really RTL capable. So a big YES to keep it,
>>>>>>>>>>>> of course.
>>>>>>>>>>>> I have no ideas though :/
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Adrian Crum" <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The Flat Grey visual theme is getting old.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The current version of the theme is based on the original look
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and feel of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> OFBiz when I first joined the community - back in 2004. Around
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Spring of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2007 I added some gradient gifs to make the original style a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> little more
>>>>>>>>>>>>> interesting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> After that, the visual theme was converted to a floating
>>>>>>>>>>>>> flexible layout
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (to fit any size screen), it was made
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> sight-impaired accessible (font size
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> can be changed), and it added support for bi-directional layout
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (for rtl
>>>>>>>>>>>>> languages). Those design decisions were made by the OFBiz
>>>>>>>>>>>>> community and, in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> my opinion, continue to make the Flat Grey theme the fallback
>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme when all
>>>>>>>>>>>>> else fails. It just works.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Despite its advantages, it looks dated. I would like to update
>>>>>>>>>>>>> it to make
>>>>>>>>>>>>> it more modern, but maintain its advantages over the other
>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes. I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking it only needs css and gif file updates. The current
>>>>>>>>>>>>> templates and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> javascripts would be maintained.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> If anyone is interested, they are welcome to help out. I would
>>>>>>>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>>>>>>>> appreciate any suggestions or comments.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me know what you think.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> Sascha Rodekamp
>>>>>>>>>>> Lynx-Consulting GmbH
>>>>>>>>>>> Johanniskirchplatz 6
>>>>>>>>>>> D-33615 Bielefeld
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.lynx.de
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>
>

[Jacques Le Roux]

From: "Bruno Busco" <[hidden email]>

> Yes, having more than one theme in the trunk was originally accepted in
> order to use and show the visual theme selection feature OOTB.
> Actually Bluelight, Dropping Crumbs and Tomahawk are one the evolution of
> the other.
> Each time we decided to create a new theme instead of replacing the one
> existing just to avoid problems to users.
>
> My proposal is to remove Bluelight, Dropping Crumbs and BizznessTime from
> the trunk and put them in a separate themes repository as suggested by Ryan.
> Remove the actual version of the Flat Grey from the trunk and put it in the
> themes repository.
> Improve the Flat Grey theme in the trunk with the work you guys are doing.
>
> In this way we will have in the trunk two themes for the backend (Actual
> FlatGrey and Tomahawk) and two themes for the ecommerce (Default and
> Multiflex).
> In the themes repository there will be Bluelight, Dropping Crumbs,
> BizznessTime and the actual FlatGrey.
> It could be a nice start for the theme repository (and gallery) start.
>
> -Bruno

Sounds like a plan!

Jacques
 

>
>
> 2011/1/6 Jacques Le Roux <[hidden email]>
>
>> Ryan Foster wrote:
>>
>>> inline...
>>>
>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>> 801.671.0769
>>> [hidden email]
>>>
>>> On Jan 6, 2011, at 11:38 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>
>>>  Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Jacques,
>>>>>
>>>>> I understand your concerns about support, and your thoughts on the
>>>>> themes has some valid points.  However, in regards to the
>>>>> BizznessTime theme, I never really intended for that to be "my" theme
>>>>> anyway.  I always viewed it as a community theme as that
>>>>> was it's original intent and it was truly a collaborative effort to
>>>>> build it between myself, my colleagues at HotWax, BrainFood,
>>>>> and other members of the the OFBiz community.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Right, sorry for that Ryan. It's only because I know you were one of  the
>>>> "fathers" (the most important I guess) and helped much
>>>> at the beginning, my apologies.
>>>>
>>>>  At any rate, my time issues and focus have shifted significantly over
>>>>> the last few months as I have left HotWax and gone into
>>>>> independent consulting and freelance development.  I plan on taking a
>>>>> much more active role in the community in the months and
>>>>> years ahead.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That's really a good, very good news!
>>>>
>>>>  As far as theme contributions go, I wonder if maybe it would be a good
>>>>> idea to have a theme repo outside of the trunk that
>>>>> individuals could commit to?  The problem with theme maintenance once a
>>>>> new theme has been added to the trunk is that not
>>>>> everyone has commit privileges to the trunk.  This makes the process of
>>>>> maintenance a lot more time consuming for individual
>>>>> contributors as they have to rely on patches, updates, collaboration,
>>>>> etc, rather than just monitoring and maintaining their own
>>>>> code.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This could certainly be discussed as themes are no blocking parts as long
>>>> as *at least one works "perfectly"* (another way is to
>>>> become committer), opinions?
>>>>
>>>
>>> I think the way that Magento and Wordpress do it are good examples.  With
>>> Wordpress, there is one "official" theme that is
>>> included with the install, but there are literally thousands of themes
>>> that are not maintained by Wordpress that they list on
>>> there site http://wordpress.org/extend/themes/, and now with the 3.0
>>> release you can even search for new themes and install them
>>> automatically from inside your Wordpress install.  Doing it this way
>>> fosters wider community support by delegating maintenance of
>>> these themes to individual contributors rather than forcing it on a
>>> handful of committers and also allows developers to monetize
>>> there contributions by offering "premium" themes and plugins.  In fact,
>>> there are many individuals and companies in the Wordpress
>>> community that make their living solely by selling themes and plugins.
>>>  This furthers solidifies the base of support for the
>>> project by offering a mid-tier option for someone who wants something more
>>> than OOTB but can't necessarily afford custom
>>> development.
>>>
>>
>> This makes good sense indeed. The only difference, I guess, is
>> unfortunately the width of the audience. This does not mean that we should
>> not try...
>>
>> Jacques
>>
>>
>>
>>>> Jacques
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  Ryan L. Foster
>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 6, 2011, at 8:17 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>  From my perspective, I don't see much chance in the Flat Grey visual
>>>>>> theme being abandoned. Enough people use it that it will
>>>>>> get the attention it needs. If Ryan isn't available to fix something, I
>>>>>> can fix it. If I'm not available, someone else could
>>>>>> fix it, etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 1/6/2011 6:02 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ryan,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Your screen copies at
>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-4092
>>>>>>> looks really great! Looking forward for the implementation...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My concerns are that maybe you will not have enough time later to keep
>>>>>>> up with possible bugs or other issues. Look for instance what happened
>>>>>>> to Bizzness Time https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-2398.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Even if it looks a bit old, we have a theme which works great. Why
>>>>>>> taking any risks with it? Also I can't see any issues with having more
>>>>>>> themes. The more we have the better, I like to have the choice. Some
>>>>>>> (rare) people prefer to use old things, see games machines or
>>>>>>> synthesizers for instance (I still love the DX-7 sound
>>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_DX7
>>>>>>> http://www.vintagesynth.com/yamaha/dx7.php)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There are any evolved version of Flat Grey yet. So this could be the
>>>>>>> 1st
>>>>>>> modern one still using the RTL mechanism introduced by Adrian. Just
>>>>>>> choice the name!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> IMO I see no reason to have a "Flat Grey Evolution" theme. Adrian is
>>>>>>>> right, the Flat Grey theme hasn't had a visual update in
>>>>>>>> years and it looks very dated. It needs some love. Let's not add
>>>>>>>> another improved version, let's just improve the version we
>>>>>>>> have now. I think that is more efficient and more beneficial in the
>>>>>>>> long run.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As far as the tabs go, we can still keep a horizontal, tab-like
>>>>>>>> navigation without actually having the tabs look like tabs.
>>>>>>>> Because, the absolutely do look terrible displayed in two rows.
>>>>>>>> Adrian, I would be happy to collaborate with you on this. I
>>>>>>>> think I have some ideas that could help. Email me directly if you
>>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>>> to hash out some ideas outside of this mailing list
>>>>>>>> discussion.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Consequently, as far as new admin themes go, I guess I can use this
>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>> an opportunity as well to drop a teaser about a new theme
>>>>>>>> I have been working on already for some time now that I honestly hope
>>>>>>>> will become the go-to theme for scalability and
>>>>>>>> customization, and that will eventually replace the Flat Grey theme
>>>>>>>> altogether. The new theme scales down very well to 800x600
>>>>>>>> and has minimal styling for maximum flexibility and customization.
>>>>>>>> Stay tuned for more details in the next few days...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Jan 3, 2011, at 11:04 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  Chiclet refers to a brand of chewing gum. The tabs look like pieces
>>>>>>>>> of Chiclets chewing gum. They look terrible when they are
>>>>>>>>> displayed in two rows.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --- On Mon, 1/3/11, Jacques Le Roux <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> By "chiclet" main navigation style,
>>>>>>>>>> you mean the tabs? Then I think we should keep Flat Grey as
>>>>>>>>>> it is (because there are advantages
>>>>>>>>>> to have tabs) and create a Flat Grey evolution...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> From: "Adrian Crum" <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I was thinking we could use colors from the Apache logo
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> and the BizznessTime theme. I would also like to get rid of
>>>>>>>>>> the "chiclet"
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> main navigation style, and maybe have that menu in a
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> collapsible left column.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Sun, 1/2/11, Sascha Rodekamp
>>>>>>>>>>> <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>  From: Sascha Rodekamp <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Discussion: Flat Grey Visual Theme
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: [hidden email],
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "Jacques Le Roux" <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Sunday, January 2, 2011, 2:27 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>> I really would appreciate to keep the
>>>>>>>>>>>> Flat Gray. But you're right it needs a
>>>>>>>>>>>> few visual improvements.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me think about this, maybe somethink comes to
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> my mind
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ..... :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 2010/12/29 Jacques Le Roux <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>  IIRW, it's the only really RTL capable. So a big YES to keep it,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have no ideas though :/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Adrian Crum" <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Flat Grey visual theme is getting old.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The current version of the theme is based on the original look
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and feel of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OFBiz when I first joined the community - back in 2004. Around
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Spring of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2007 I added some gradient gifs to make the original style a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> little more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interesting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After that, the visual theme was converted to a floating
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> flexible layout
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (to fit any size screen), it was made
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> sight-impaired accessible (font size
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> can be changed), and it added support for bi-directional layout
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (for rtl
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> languages). Those design decisions were made by the OFBiz
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> community and, in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my opinion, continue to make the Flat Grey theme the fallback
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme when all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> else fails. It just works.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Despite its advantages, it looks dated. I would like to update
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it to make
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it more modern, but maintain its advantages over the other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes. I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking it only needs css and gif file updates. The current
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> templates and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> javascripts would be maintained.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If anyone is interested, they are welcome to help out. I would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> appreciate any suggestions or comments.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me know what you think.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sascha Rodekamp
>>>>>>>>>>>> Lynx-Consulting GmbH
>>>>>>>>>>>> Johanniskirchplatz 6
>>>>>>>>>>>> D-33615 Bielefeld
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.lynx.de
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>
>>
>

[Ryan Foster-3]

+1.  I think that is a good start.

Ryan L. Foster
801.671.0769
[hidden email]

On Jan 6, 2011, at 1:53 PM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:

> From: "Bruno Busco" <[hidden email]>
>> Yes, having more than one theme in the trunk was originally accepted in
>> order to use and show the visual theme selection feature OOTB.
>> Actually Bluelight, Dropping Crumbs and Tomahawk are one the evolution of
>> the other.
>> Each time we decided to create a new theme instead of replacing the one
>> existing just to avoid problems to users.
>> My proposal is to remove Bluelight, Dropping Crumbs and BizznessTime from
>> the trunk and put them in a separate themes repository as suggested by Ryan.
>> Remove the actual version of the Flat Grey from the trunk and put it in the
>> themes repository.
>> Improve the Flat Grey theme in the trunk with the work you guys are doing.
>> In this way we will have in the trunk two themes for the backend (Actual
>> FlatGrey and Tomahawk) and two themes for the ecommerce (Default and
>> Multiflex).
>> In the themes repository there will be Bluelight, Dropping Crumbs,
>> BizznessTime and the actual FlatGrey.
>> It could be a nice start for the theme repository (and gallery) start.
>> -Bruno
>
> Sounds like a plan!
>
> Jacques
>> 2011/1/6 Jacques Le Roux <[hidden email]>
>>> Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>
>>>> inline...
>>>>
>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 6, 2011, at 11:38 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Jacques,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I understand your concerns about support, and your thoughts on the
>>>>>> themes has some valid points.  However, in regards to the
>>>>>> BizznessTime theme, I never really intended for that to be "my" theme
>>>>>> anyway.  I always viewed it as a community theme as that
>>>>>> was it's original intent and it was truly a collaborative effort to
>>>>>> build it between myself, my colleagues at HotWax, BrainFood,
>>>>>> and other members of the the OFBiz community.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Right, sorry for that Ryan. It's only because I know you were one of  the
>>>>> "fathers" (the most important I guess) and helped much
>>>>> at the beginning, my apologies.
>>>>>
>>>>> At any rate, my time issues and focus have shifted significantly over
>>>>>> the last few months as I have left HotWax and gone into
>>>>>> independent consulting and freelance development.  I plan on taking a
>>>>>> much more active role in the community in the months and
>>>>>> years ahead.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> That's really a good, very good news!
>>>>>
>>>>> As far as theme contributions go, I wonder if maybe it would be a good
>>>>>> idea to have a theme repo outside of the trunk that
>>>>>> individuals could commit to?  The problem with theme maintenance once a
>>>>>> new theme has been added to the trunk is that not
>>>>>> everyone has commit privileges to the trunk.  This makes the process of
>>>>>> maintenance a lot more time consuming for individual
>>>>>> contributors as they have to rely on patches, updates, collaboration,
>>>>>> etc, rather than just monitoring and maintaining their own
>>>>>> code.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> This could certainly be discussed as themes are no blocking parts as long
>>>>> as *at least one works "perfectly"* (another way is to
>>>>> become committer), opinions?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I think the way that Magento and Wordpress do it are good examples.  With
>>>> Wordpress, there is one "official" theme that is
>>>> included with the install, but there are literally thousands of themes
>>>> that are not maintained by Wordpress that they list on
>>>> there site http://wordpress.org/extend/themes/, and now with the 3.0
>>>> release you can even search for new themes and install them
>>>> automatically from inside your Wordpress install.  Doing it this way
>>>> fosters wider community support by delegating maintenance of
>>>> these themes to individual contributors rather than forcing it on a
>>>> handful of committers and also allows developers to monetize
>>>> there contributions by offering "premium" themes and plugins.  In fact,
>>>> there are many individuals and companies in the Wordpress
>>>> community that make their living solely by selling themes and plugins.
>>>> This furthers solidifies the base of support for the
>>>> project by offering a mid-tier option for someone who wants something more
>>>> than OOTB but can't necessarily afford custom
>>>> development.
>>>>
>>>
>>> This makes good sense indeed. The only difference, I guess, is
>>> unfortunately the width of the audience. This does not mean that we should
>>> not try...
>>>
>>> Jacques
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jan 6, 2011, at 8:17 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From my perspective, I don't see much chance in the Flat Grey visual
>>>>>>> theme being abandoned. Enough people use it that it will
>>>>>>> get the attention it needs. If Ryan isn't available to fix something, I
>>>>>>> can fix it. If I'm not available, someone else could
>>>>>>> fix it, etc.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 1/6/2011 6:02 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ryan,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Your screen copies at
>>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-4092
>>>>>>>> looks really great! Looking forward for the implementation...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My concerns are that maybe you will not have enough time later to keep
>>>>>>>> up with possible bugs or other issues. Look for instance what happened
>>>>>>>> to Bizzness Time https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-2398.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Even if it looks a bit old, we have a theme which works great. Why
>>>>>>>> taking any risks with it? Also I can't see any issues with having more
>>>>>>>> themes. The more we have the better, I like to have the choice. Some
>>>>>>>> (rare) people prefer to use old things, see games machines or
>>>>>>>> synthesizers for instance (I still love the DX-7 sound
>>>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_DX7
>>>>>>>> http://www.vintagesynth.com/yamaha/dx7.php)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There are any evolved version of Flat Grey yet. So this could be the
>>>>>>>> 1st
>>>>>>>> modern one still using the RTL mechanism introduced by Adrian. Just
>>>>>>>> choice the name!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> IMO I see no reason to have a "Flat Grey Evolution" theme. Adrian is
>>>>>>>>> right, the Flat Grey theme hasn't had a visual update in
>>>>>>>>> years and it looks very dated. It needs some love. Let's not add
>>>>>>>>> another improved version, let's just improve the version we
>>>>>>>>> have now. I think that is more efficient and more beneficial in the
>>>>>>>>> long run.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> As far as the tabs go, we can still keep a horizontal, tab-like
>>>>>>>>> navigation without actually having the tabs look like tabs.
>>>>>>>>> Because, the absolutely do look terrible displayed in two rows.
>>>>>>>>> Adrian, I would be happy to collaborate with you on this. I
>>>>>>>>> think I have some ideas that could help. Email me directly if you
>>>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>>>> to hash out some ideas outside of this mailing list
>>>>>>>>> discussion.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Consequently, as far as new admin themes go, I guess I can use this
>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>> an opportunity as well to drop a teaser about a new theme
>>>>>>>>> I have been working on already for some time now that I honestly hope
>>>>>>>>> will become the go-to theme for scalability and
>>>>>>>>> customization, and that will eventually replace the Flat Grey theme
>>>>>>>>> altogether. The new theme scales down very well to 800x600
>>>>>>>>> and has minimal styling for maximum flexibility and customization.
>>>>>>>>> Stay tuned for more details in the next few days...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Jan 3, 2011, at 11:04 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Chiclet refers to a brand of chewing gum. The tabs look like pieces
>>>>>>>>>> of Chiclets chewing gum. They look terrible when they are
>>>>>>>>>> displayed in two rows.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --- On Mon, 1/3/11, Jacques Le Roux <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> By "chiclet" main navigation style,
>>>>>>>>>>> you mean the tabs? Then I think we should keep Flat Grey as
>>>>>>>>>>> it is (because there are advantages
>>>>>>>>>>> to have tabs) and create a Flat Grey evolution...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Adrian Crum" <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I was thinking we could use colors from the Apache logo
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> and the BizznessTime theme. I would also like to get rid of
>>>>>>>>>>> the "chiclet"
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> main navigation style, and maybe have that menu in a
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> collapsible left column.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Sun, 1/2/11, Sascha Rodekamp
>>>>>>>>>>>> <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Sascha Rodekamp <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Discussion: Flat Grey Visual Theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: [hidden email],
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Jacques Le Roux" <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Sunday, January 2, 2011, 2:27 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I really would appreciate to keep the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Flat Gray. But you're right it needs a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> few visual improvements.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me think about this, maybe somethink comes to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> my mind
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ..... :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2010/12/29 Jacques Le Roux <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> IIRW, it's the only really RTL capable. So a big YES to keep it,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have no ideas though :/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Adrian Crum" <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Flat Grey visual theme is getting old.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The current version of the theme is based on the original look
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and feel of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OFBiz when I first joined the community - back in 2004. Around
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Spring of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2007 I added some gradient gifs to make the original style a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> little more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interesting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After that, the visual theme was converted to a floating
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> flexible layout
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (to fit any size screen), it was made
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sight-impaired accessible (font size
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can be changed), and it added support for bi-directional layout
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (for rtl
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> languages). Those design decisions were made by the OFBiz
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> community and, in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my opinion, continue to make the Flat Grey theme the fallback
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme when all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> else fails. It just works.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Despite its advantages, it looks dated. I would like to update
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it to make
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it more modern, but maintain its advantages over the other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes. I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking it only needs css and gif file updates. The current
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> templates and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> javascripts would be maintained.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If anyone is interested, they are welcome to help out. I would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> appreciate any suggestions or comments.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me know what you think.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sascha Rodekamp
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lynx-Consulting GmbH
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Johanniskirchplatz 6
>>>>>>>>>>>>> D-33615 Bielefeld
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.lynx.de
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>

[BJ Freeman]

is there any thought to production servers.
or is this just a developers paradise


=========================
BJ Freeman
Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation  <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
Specialtymarket.com  <http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist

Chat  Y! messenger: bjfr33man


Bruno Busco sent the following on 1/6/2011 12:51 PM:

> Yes, having more than one theme in the trunk was originally accepted in
> order to use and show the visual theme selection feature OOTB.
> Actually Bluelight, Dropping Crumbs and Tomahawk are one the evolution of
> the other.
> Each time we decided to create a new theme instead of replacing the one
> existing just to avoid problems to users.
>
> My proposal is to remove Bluelight, Dropping Crumbs and BizznessTime from
> the trunk and put them in a separate themes repository as suggested by Ryan.
> Remove the actual version of the Flat Grey from the trunk and put it in the
> themes repository.
> Improve the Flat Grey theme in the trunk with the work you guys are doing.
>
> In this way we will have in the trunk two themes for the backend (Actual
> FlatGrey and Tomahawk) and two themes for the ecommerce (Default and
> Multiflex).
> In the themes repository there will be Bluelight, Dropping Crumbs,
> BizznessTime and the actual FlatGrey.
> It could be a nice start for the theme repository (and gallery) start.
>
> -Bruno
>
>
>
> 2011/1/6 Jacques Le Roux<[hidden email]>
>
>> Ryan Foster wrote:
>>
>>> inline...
>>>
>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>> 801.671.0769
>>> [hidden email]
>>>
>>> On Jan 6, 2011, at 11:38 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>
>>>   Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Jacques,
>>>>>
>>>>> I understand your concerns about support, and your thoughts on the
>>>>> themes has some valid points.  However, in regards to the
>>>>> BizznessTime theme, I never really intended for that to be "my" theme
>>>>> anyway.  I always viewed it as a community theme as that
>>>>> was it's original intent and it was truly a collaborative effort to
>>>>> build it between myself, my colleagues at HotWax, BrainFood,
>>>>> and other members of the the OFBiz community.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Right, sorry for that Ryan. It's only because I know you were one of  the
>>>> "fathers" (the most important I guess) and helped much
>>>> at the beginning, my apologies.
>>>>
>>>>   At any rate, my time issues and focus have shifted significantly over
>>>>> the last few months as I have left HotWax and gone into
>>>>> independent consulting and freelance development.  I plan on taking a
>>>>> much more active role in the community in the months and
>>>>> years ahead.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That's really a good, very good news!
>>>>
>>>>   As far as theme contributions go, I wonder if maybe it would be a good
>>>>> idea to have a theme repo outside of the trunk that
>>>>> individuals could commit to?  The problem with theme maintenance once a
>>>>> new theme has been added to the trunk is that not
>>>>> everyone has commit privileges to the trunk.  This makes the process of
>>>>> maintenance a lot more time consuming for individual
>>>>> contributors as they have to rely on patches, updates, collaboration,
>>>>> etc, rather than just monitoring and maintaining their own
>>>>> code.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This could certainly be discussed as themes are no blocking parts as long
>>>> as *at least one works "perfectly"* (another way is to
>>>> become committer), opinions?
>>>>
>>>
>>> I think the way that Magento and Wordpress do it are good examples.  With
>>> Wordpress, there is one "official" theme that is
>>> included with the install, but there are literally thousands of themes
>>> that are not maintained by Wordpress that they list on
>>> there site http://wordpress.org/extend/themes/, and now with the 3.0
>>> release you can even search for new themes and install them
>>> automatically from inside your Wordpress install.  Doing it this way
>>> fosters wider community support by delegating maintenance of
>>> these themes to individual contributors rather than forcing it on a
>>> handful of committers and also allows developers to monetize
>>> there contributions by offering "premium" themes and plugins.  In fact,
>>> there are many individuals and companies in the Wordpress
>>> community that make their living solely by selling themes and plugins.
>>>   This furthers solidifies the base of support for the
>>> project by offering a mid-tier option for someone who wants something more
>>> than OOTB but can't necessarily afford custom
>>> development.
>>>
>>
>> This makes good sense indeed. The only difference, I guess, is
>> unfortunately the width of the audience. This does not mean that we should
>> not try...
>>
>> Jacques
>>
>>
>>
>>>> Jacques
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>   Ryan L. Foster
>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 6, 2011, at 8:17 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>   From my perspective, I don't see much chance in the Flat Grey visual
>>>>>> theme being abandoned. Enough people use it that it will
>>>>>> get the attention it needs. If Ryan isn't available to fix something, I
>>>>>> can fix it. If I'm not available, someone else could
>>>>>> fix it, etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 1/6/2011 6:02 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ryan,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Your screen copies at
>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-4092
>>>>>>> looks really great! Looking forward for the implementation...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My concerns are that maybe you will not have enough time later to keep
>>>>>>> up with possible bugs or other issues. Look for instance what happened
>>>>>>> to Bizzness Time https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-2398.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Even if it looks a bit old, we have a theme which works great. Why
>>>>>>> taking any risks with it? Also I can't see any issues with having more
>>>>>>> themes. The more we have the better, I like to have the choice. Some
>>>>>>> (rare) people prefer to use old things, see games machines or
>>>>>>> synthesizers for instance (I still love the DX-7 sound
>>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_DX7
>>>>>>> http://www.vintagesynth.com/yamaha/dx7.php)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There are any evolved version of Flat Grey yet. So this could be the
>>>>>>> 1st
>>>>>>> modern one still using the RTL mechanism introduced by Adrian. Just
>>>>>>> choice the name!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> IMO I see no reason to have a "Flat Grey Evolution" theme. Adrian is
>>>>>>>> right, the Flat Grey theme hasn't had a visual update in
>>>>>>>> years and it looks very dated. It needs some love. Let's not add
>>>>>>>> another improved version, let's just improve the version we
>>>>>>>> have now. I think that is more efficient and more beneficial in the
>>>>>>>> long run.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As far as the tabs go, we can still keep a horizontal, tab-like
>>>>>>>> navigation without actually having the tabs look like tabs.
>>>>>>>> Because, the absolutely do look terrible displayed in two rows.
>>>>>>>> Adrian, I would be happy to collaborate with you on this. I
>>>>>>>> think I have some ideas that could help. Email me directly if you
>>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>>> to hash out some ideas outside of this mailing list
>>>>>>>> discussion.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Consequently, as far as new admin themes go, I guess I can use this
>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>> an opportunity as well to drop a teaser about a new theme
>>>>>>>> I have been working on already for some time now that I honestly hope
>>>>>>>> will become the go-to theme for scalability and
>>>>>>>> customization, and that will eventually replace the Flat Grey theme
>>>>>>>> altogether. The new theme scales down very well to 800x600
>>>>>>>> and has minimal styling for maximum flexibility and customization.
>>>>>>>> Stay tuned for more details in the next few days...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Jan 3, 2011, at 11:04 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>   Chiclet refers to a brand of chewing gum. The tabs look like pieces
>>>>>>>>> of Chiclets chewing gum. They look terrible when they are
>>>>>>>>> displayed in two rows.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --- On Mon, 1/3/11, Jacques Le Roux<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> By "chiclet" main navigation style,
>>>>>>>>>> you mean the tabs? Then I think we should keep Flat Grey as
>>>>>>>>>> it is (because there are advantages
>>>>>>>>>> to have tabs) and create a Flat Grey evolution...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> From: "Adrian Crum"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I was thinking we could use colors from the Apache logo
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> and the BizznessTime theme. I would also like to get rid of
>>>>>>>>>> the "chiclet"
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> main navigation style, and maybe have that menu in a
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> collapsible left column.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Sun, 1/2/11, Sascha Rodekamp
>>>>>>>>>>> <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>   From: Sascha Rodekamp<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Discussion: Flat Grey Visual Theme
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: [hidden email],
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "Jacques Le Roux"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Sunday, January 2, 2011, 2:27 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>> I really would appreciate to keep the
>>>>>>>>>>>> Flat Gray. But you're right it needs a
>>>>>>>>>>>> few visual improvements.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me think about this, maybe somethink comes to
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> my mind
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ..... :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 2010/12/29 Jacques Le Roux<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>   IIRW, it's the only really RTL capable. So a big YES to keep it,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have no ideas though :/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Adrian Crum"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Flat Grey visual theme is getting old.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The current version of the theme is based on the original look
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and feel of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OFBiz when I first joined the community - back in 2004. Around
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Spring of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2007 I added some gradient gifs to make the original style a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> little more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interesting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After that, the visual theme was converted to a floating
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> flexible layout
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (to fit any size screen), it was made
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> sight-impaired accessible (font size
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> can be changed), and it added support for bi-directional layout
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (for rtl
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> languages). Those design decisions were made by the OFBiz
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> community and, in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my opinion, continue to make the Flat Grey theme the fallback
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme when all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> else fails. It just works.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Despite its advantages, it looks dated. I would like to update
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it to make
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it more modern, but maintain its advantages over the other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes. I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking it only needs css and gif file updates. The current
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> templates and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> javascripts would be maintained.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If anyone is interested, they are welcome to help out. I would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> appreciate any suggestions or comments.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me know what you think.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sascha Rodekamp
>>>>>>>>>>>> Lynx-Consulting GmbH
>>>>>>>>>>>> Johanniskirchplatz 6
>>>>>>>>>>>> D-33615 Bielefeld
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.lynx.de
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>
>>
>

[BJ Freeman]

how about those that are using ofbiz for SAS and will have many themes
for their clients.


Bruno Busco sent the following on 1/6/2011 12:51 PM:

> Yes, having more than one theme in the trunk was originally accepted in
> order to use and show the visual theme selection feature OOTB.
> Actually Bluelight, Dropping Crumbs and Tomahawk are one the evolution of
> the other.
> Each time we decided to create a new theme instead of replacing the one
> existing just to avoid problems to users.
>
> My proposal is to remove Bluelight, Dropping Crumbs and BizznessTime from
> the trunk and put them in a separate themes repository as suggested by Ryan.
> Remove the actual version of the Flat Grey from the trunk and put it in the
> themes repository.
> Improve the Flat Grey theme in the trunk with the work you guys are doing.
>
> In this way we will have in the trunk two themes for the backend (Actual
> FlatGrey and Tomahawk) and two themes for the ecommerce (Default and
> Multiflex).
> In the themes repository there will be Bluelight, Dropping Crumbs,
> BizznessTime and the actual FlatGrey.
> It could be a nice start for the theme repository (and gallery) start.
>
> -Bruno
>
>
>
> 2011/1/6 Jacques Le Roux<[hidden email]>
>
>> Ryan Foster wrote:
>>
>>> inline...
>>>
>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>> 801.671.0769
>>> [hidden email]
>>>
>>> On Jan 6, 2011, at 11:38 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>
>>>   Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Jacques,
>>>>>
>>>>> I understand your concerns about support, and your thoughts on the
>>>>> themes has some valid points.  However, in regards to the
>>>>> BizznessTime theme, I never really intended for that to be "my" theme
>>>>> anyway.  I always viewed it as a community theme as that
>>>>> was it's original intent and it was truly a collaborative effort to
>>>>> build it between myself, my colleagues at HotWax, BrainFood,
>>>>> and other members of the the OFBiz community.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Right, sorry for that Ryan. It's only because I know you were one of  the
>>>> "fathers" (the most important I guess) and helped much
>>>> at the beginning, my apologies.
>>>>
>>>>   At any rate, my time issues and focus have shifted significantly over
>>>>> the last few months as I have left HotWax and gone into
>>>>> independent consulting and freelance development.  I plan on taking a
>>>>> much more active role in the community in the months and
>>>>> years ahead.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That's really a good, very good news!
>>>>
>>>>   As far as theme contributions go, I wonder if maybe it would be a good
>>>>> idea to have a theme repo outside of the trunk that
>>>>> individuals could commit to?  The problem with theme maintenance once a
>>>>> new theme has been added to the trunk is that not
>>>>> everyone has commit privileges to the trunk.  This makes the process of
>>>>> maintenance a lot more time consuming for individual
>>>>> contributors as they have to rely on patches, updates, collaboration,
>>>>> etc, rather than just monitoring and maintaining their own
>>>>> code.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This could certainly be discussed as themes are no blocking parts as long
>>>> as *at least one works "perfectly"* (another way is to
>>>> become committer), opinions?
>>>>
>>>
>>> I think the way that Magento and Wordpress do it are good examples.  With
>>> Wordpress, there is one "official" theme that is
>>> included with the install, but there are literally thousands of themes
>>> that are not maintained by Wordpress that they list on
>>> there site http://wordpress.org/extend/themes/, and now with the 3.0
>>> release you can even search for new themes and install them
>>> automatically from inside your Wordpress install.  Doing it this way
>>> fosters wider community support by delegating maintenance of
>>> these themes to individual contributors rather than forcing it on a
>>> handful of committers and also allows developers to monetize
>>> there contributions by offering "premium" themes and plugins.  In fact,
>>> there are many individuals and companies in the Wordpress
>>> community that make their living solely by selling themes and plugins.
>>>   This furthers solidifies the base of support for the
>>> project by offering a mid-tier option for someone who wants something more
>>> than OOTB but can't necessarily afford custom
>>> development.
>>>
>>
>> This makes good sense indeed. The only difference, I guess, is
>> unfortunately the width of the audience. This does not mean that we should
>> not try...
>>
>> Jacques
>>
>>
>>
>>>> Jacques
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>   Ryan L. Foster
>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 6, 2011, at 8:17 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>   From my perspective, I don't see much chance in the Flat Grey visual
>>>>>> theme being abandoned. Enough people use it that it will
>>>>>> get the attention it needs. If Ryan isn't available to fix something, I
>>>>>> can fix it. If I'm not available, someone else could
>>>>>> fix it, etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 1/6/2011 6:02 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ryan,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Your screen copies at
>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-4092
>>>>>>> looks really great! Looking forward for the implementation...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My concerns are that maybe you will not have enough time later to keep
>>>>>>> up with possible bugs or other issues. Look for instance what happened
>>>>>>> to Bizzness Time https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-2398.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Even if it looks a bit old, we have a theme which works great. Why
>>>>>>> taking any risks with it? Also I can't see any issues with having more
>>>>>>> themes. The more we have the better, I like to have the choice. Some
>>>>>>> (rare) people prefer to use old things, see games machines or
>>>>>>> synthesizers for instance (I still love the DX-7 sound
>>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_DX7
>>>>>>> http://www.vintagesynth.com/yamaha/dx7.php)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There are any evolved version of Flat Grey yet. So this could be the
>>>>>>> 1st
>>>>>>> modern one still using the RTL mechanism introduced by Adrian. Just
>>>>>>> choice the name!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> IMO I see no reason to have a "Flat Grey Evolution" theme. Adrian is
>>>>>>>> right, the Flat Grey theme hasn't had a visual update in
>>>>>>>> years and it looks very dated. It needs some love. Let's not add
>>>>>>>> another improved version, let's just improve the version we
>>>>>>>> have now. I think that is more efficient and more beneficial in the
>>>>>>>> long run.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As far as the tabs go, we can still keep a horizontal, tab-like
>>>>>>>> navigation without actually having the tabs look like tabs.
>>>>>>>> Because, the absolutely do look terrible displayed in two rows.
>>>>>>>> Adrian, I would be happy to collaborate with you on this. I
>>>>>>>> think I have some ideas that could help. Email me directly if you
>>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>>> to hash out some ideas outside of this mailing list
>>>>>>>> discussion.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Consequently, as far as new admin themes go, I guess I can use this
>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>> an opportunity as well to drop a teaser about a new theme
>>>>>>>> I have been working on already for some time now that I honestly hope
>>>>>>>> will become the go-to theme for scalability and
>>>>>>>> customization, and that will eventually replace the Flat Grey theme
>>>>>>>> altogether. The new theme scales down very well to 800x600
>>>>>>>> and has minimal styling for maximum flexibility and customization.
>>>>>>>> Stay tuned for more details in the next few days...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Jan 3, 2011, at 11:04 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>   Chiclet refers to a brand of chewing gum. The tabs look like pieces
>>>>>>>>> of Chiclets chewing gum. They look terrible when they are
>>>>>>>>> displayed in two rows.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --- On Mon, 1/3/11, Jacques Le Roux<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> By "chiclet" main navigation style,
>>>>>>>>>> you mean the tabs? Then I think we should keep Flat Grey as
>>>>>>>>>> it is (because there are advantages
>>>>>>>>>> to have tabs) and create a Flat Grey evolution...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> From: "Adrian Crum"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I was thinking we could use colors from the Apache logo
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> and the BizznessTime theme. I would also like to get rid of
>>>>>>>>>> the "chiclet"
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> main navigation style, and maybe have that menu in a
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> collapsible left column.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Sun, 1/2/11, Sascha Rodekamp
>>>>>>>>>>> <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>   From: Sascha Rodekamp<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Discussion: Flat Grey Visual Theme
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: [hidden email],
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "Jacques Le Roux"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Sunday, January 2, 2011, 2:27 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>> I really would appreciate to keep the
>>>>>>>>>>>> Flat Gray. But you're right it needs a
>>>>>>>>>>>> few visual improvements.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me think about this, maybe somethink comes to
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> my mind
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ..... :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 2010/12/29 Jacques Le Roux<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>   IIRW, it's the only really RTL capable. So a big YES to keep it,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have no ideas though :/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Adrian Crum"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Flat Grey visual theme is getting old.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The current version of the theme is based on the original look
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and feel of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OFBiz when I first joined the community - back in 2004. Around
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Spring of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2007 I added some gradient gifs to make the original style a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> little more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interesting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After that, the visual theme was converted to a floating
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> flexible layout
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (to fit any size screen), it was made
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> sight-impaired accessible (font size
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> can be changed), and it added support for bi-directional layout
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (for rtl
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> languages). Those design decisions were made by the OFBiz
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> community and, in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my opinion, continue to make the Flat Grey theme the fallback
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme when all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> else fails. It just works.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Despite its advantages, it looks dated. I would like to update
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it to make
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it more modern, but maintain its advantages over the other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes. I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking it only needs css and gif file updates. The current
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> templates and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> javascripts would be maintained.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If anyone is interested, they are welcome to help out. I would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> appreciate any suggestions or comments.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me know what you think.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sascha Rodekamp
>>>>>>>>>>>> Lynx-Consulting GmbH
>>>>>>>>>>>> Johanniskirchplatz 6
>>>>>>>>>>>> D-33615 Bielefeld
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.lynx.de
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>
>>
>

[Bruno Busco]

I am sorry, BJ, I do not see your point.

What could be the issue?
We will have less themes to maintain in the trunk (just Flat Grey, Tomahawk,
Default and Multiflex).
We will have more people that will be able to maintain additional themes in
the Themes Gallery.

Production servers will have each one its selected theme (one of the OOTB,
one of the Themes Gallery or a customized version of them).

-Bruno

2011/1/6 BJ Freeman <[hidden email]>

> how about those that are using ofbiz for SAS and will have many themes for
> their clients.
>
>
>
> Bruno Busco sent the following on 1/6/2011 12:51 PM:
>
>> Yes, having more than one theme in the trunk was originally accepted in
>>
>> order to use and show the visual theme selection feature OOTB.
>> Actually Bluelight, Dropping Crumbs and Tomahawk are one the evolution of
>> the other.
>> Each time we decided to create a new theme instead of replacing the one
>> existing just to avoid problems to users.
>>
>> My proposal is to remove Bluelight, Dropping Crumbs and BizznessTime from
>> the trunk and put them in a separate themes repository as suggested by
>> Ryan.
>> Remove the actual version of the Flat Grey from the trunk and put it in
>> the
>> themes repository.
>> Improve the Flat Grey theme in the trunk with the work you guys are doing.
>>
>> In this way we will have in the trunk two themes for the backend (Actual
>> FlatGrey and Tomahawk) and two themes for the ecommerce (Default and
>> Multiflex).
>> In the themes repository there will be Bluelight, Dropping Crumbs,
>> BizznessTime and the actual FlatGrey.
>> It could be a nice start for the theme repository (and gallery) start.
>>
>> -Bruno
>>
>>
>>
>> 2011/1/6 Jacques Le Roux<[hidden email]>
>>
>>  Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>
>>>  inline...
>>>>
>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 6, 2011, at 11:38 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  Jacques,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I understand your concerns about support, and your thoughts on the
>>>>>> themes has some valid points.  However, in regards to the
>>>>>> BizznessTime theme, I never really intended for that to be "my" theme
>>>>>> anyway.  I always viewed it as a community theme as that
>>>>>> was it's original intent and it was truly a collaborative effort to
>>>>>> build it between myself, my colleagues at HotWax, BrainFood,
>>>>>> and other members of the the OFBiz community.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> Right, sorry for that Ryan. It's only because I know you were one of
>>>>>  the
>>>>> "fathers" (the most important I guess) and helped much
>>>>> at the beginning, my apologies.
>>>>>
>>>>>  At any rate, my time issues and focus have shifted significantly over
>>>>>
>>>>>> the last few months as I have left HotWax and gone into
>>>>>> independent consulting and freelance development.  I plan on taking a
>>>>>> much more active role in the community in the months and
>>>>>> years ahead.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> That's really a good, very good news!
>>>>>
>>>>>  As far as theme contributions go, I wonder if maybe it would be a good
>>>>>
>>>>>> idea to have a theme repo outside of the trunk that
>>>>>> individuals could commit to?  The problem with theme maintenance once
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> new theme has been added to the trunk is that not
>>>>>> everyone has commit privileges to the trunk.  This makes the process
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> maintenance a lot more time consuming for individual
>>>>>> contributors as they have to rely on patches, updates, collaboration,
>>>>>> etc, rather than just monitoring and maintaining their own
>>>>>> code.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> This could certainly be discussed as themes are no blocking parts as
>>>>> long
>>>>> as *at least one works "perfectly"* (another way is to
>>>>> become committer), opinions?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> I think the way that Magento and Wordpress do it are good examples.
>>>>  With
>>>> Wordpress, there is one "official" theme that is
>>>> included with the install, but there are literally thousands of themes
>>>> that are not maintained by Wordpress that they list on
>>>> there site http://wordpress.org/extend/themes/, and now with the 3.0
>>>> release you can even search for new themes and install them
>>>> automatically from inside your Wordpress install.  Doing it this way
>>>> fosters wider community support by delegating maintenance of
>>>> these themes to individual contributors rather than forcing it on a
>>>> handful of committers and also allows developers to monetize
>>>> there contributions by offering "premium" themes and plugins.  In fact,
>>>> there are many individuals and companies in the Wordpress
>>>> community that make their living solely by selling themes and plugins.
>>>>  This furthers solidifies the base of support for the
>>>> project by offering a mid-tier option for someone who wants something
>>>> more
>>>> than OOTB but can't necessarily afford custom
>>>> development.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> This makes good sense indeed. The only difference, I guess, is
>>> unfortunately the width of the audience. This does not mean that we
>>> should
>>> not try...
>>>
>>> Jacques
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  Jacques
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>
>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jan 6, 2011, at 8:17 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  From my perspective, I don't see much chance in the Flat Grey visual
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> theme being abandoned. Enough people use it that it will
>>>>>>> get the attention it needs. If Ryan isn't available to fix something,
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> can fix it. If I'm not available, someone else could
>>>>>>> fix it, etc.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 1/6/2011 6:02 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  Ryan,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Your screen copies at
>>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-4092
>>>>>>>> looks really great! Looking forward for the implementation...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My concerns are that maybe you will not have enough time later to
>>>>>>>> keep
>>>>>>>> up with possible bugs or other issues. Look for instance what
>>>>>>>> happened
>>>>>>>> to Bizzness Time https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-2398.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Even if it looks a bit old, we have a theme which works great. Why
>>>>>>>> taking any risks with it? Also I can't see any issues with having
>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>> themes. The more we have the better, I like to have the choice. Some
>>>>>>>> (rare) people prefer to use old things, see games machines or
>>>>>>>> synthesizers for instance (I still love the DX-7 sound
>>>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_DX7
>>>>>>>> http://www.vintagesynth.com/yamaha/dx7.php)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There are any evolved version of Flat Grey yet. So this could be the
>>>>>>>> 1st
>>>>>>>> modern one still using the RTL mechanism introduced by Adrian. Just
>>>>>>>> choice the name!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  IMO I see no reason to have a "Flat Grey Evolution" theme. Adrian
>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>> right, the Flat Grey theme hasn't had a visual update in
>>>>>>>>> years and it looks very dated. It needs some love. Let's not add
>>>>>>>>> another improved version, let's just improve the version we
>>>>>>>>> have now. I think that is more efficient and more beneficial in the
>>>>>>>>> long run.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> As far as the tabs go, we can still keep a horizontal, tab-like
>>>>>>>>> navigation without actually having the tabs look like tabs.
>>>>>>>>> Because, the absolutely do look terrible displayed in two rows.
>>>>>>>>> Adrian, I would be happy to collaborate with you on this. I
>>>>>>>>> think I have some ideas that could help. Email me directly if you
>>>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>>>> to hash out some ideas outside of this mailing list
>>>>>>>>> discussion.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Consequently, as far as new admin themes go, I guess I can use this
>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>> an opportunity as well to drop a teaser about a new theme
>>>>>>>>> I have been working on already for some time now that I honestly
>>>>>>>>> hope
>>>>>>>>> will become the go-to theme for scalability and
>>>>>>>>> customization, and that will eventually replace the Flat Grey theme
>>>>>>>>> altogether. The new theme scales down very well to 800x600
>>>>>>>>> and has minimal styling for maximum flexibility and customization.
>>>>>>>>> Stay tuned for more details in the next few days...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Jan 3, 2011, at 11:04 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  Chiclet refers to a brand of chewing gum. The tabs look like
>>>>>>>>> pieces
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> of Chiclets chewing gum. They look terrible when they are
>>>>>>>>>> displayed in two rows.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --- On Mon, 1/3/11, Jacques Le Roux<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>  By "chiclet" main navigation style,
>>>>>>>>>>> you mean the tabs? Then I think we should keep Flat Grey as
>>>>>>>>>>> it is (because there are advantages
>>>>>>>>>>> to have tabs) and create a Flat Grey evolution...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Adrian Crum"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>  I was thinking we could use colors from the Apache logo
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>  and the BizznessTime theme. I would also like to get rid of
>>>>>>>>>>> the "chiclet"
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>  main navigation style, and maybe have that menu in a
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>  collapsible left column.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Sun, 1/2/11, Sascha Rodekamp
>>>>>>>>>>>> <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>  From: Sascha Rodekamp<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Discussion: Flat Grey Visual Theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: [hidden email],
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  "Jacques Le Roux"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>  Date: Sunday, January 2, 2011, 2:27 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I really would appreciate to keep the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Flat Gray. But you're right it needs a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> few visual improvements.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me think about this, maybe somethink comes to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  my mind
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>  ..... :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2010/12/29 Jacques Le Roux<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  IIRW, it's the only really RTL capable. So a big YES to keep
>>>>>>>>>>>>> it,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have no ideas though :/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Adrian Crum"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Flat Grey visual theme is getting old.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The current version of the theme is based on the original
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> look
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and feel of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OFBiz when I first joined the community - back in 2004.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Around
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Spring of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2007 I added some gradient gifs to make the original style a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> little more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interesting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After that, the visual theme was converted to a floating
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> flexible layout
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (to fit any size screen), it was made
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  sight-impaired accessible (font size
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  can be changed), and it added support for bi-directional
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> layout
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (for rtl
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> languages). Those design decisions were made by the OFBiz
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> community and, in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my opinion, continue to make the Flat Grey theme the fallback
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme when all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> else fails. It just works.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Despite its advantages, it looks dated. I would like to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> update
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it to make
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it more modern, but maintain its advantages over the other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes. I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking it only needs css and gif file updates. The current
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> templates and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> javascripts would be maintained.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If anyone is interested, they are welcome to help out. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> appreciate any suggestions or comments.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me know what you think.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sascha Rodekamp
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lynx-Consulting GmbH
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Johanniskirchplatz 6
>>>>>>>>>>>>> D-33615 Bielefeld
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.lynx.de
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>

[BJ Freeman]

I have one that uses the flat grey as default
so if I do an update from the svn the flat grey will and my
customization disappear.

my sas uses all those in the themes, with my modification.
they will be removed. when the svn update is run.

those are just a few examples.

=========================
BJ Freeman
Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation  <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
Specialtymarket.com  <http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist

Chat  Y! messenger: bjfr33man


Bruno Busco sent the following on 1/6/2011 2:00 PM:

> I am sorry, BJ, I do not see your point.
>
> What could be the issue?
> We will have less themes to maintain in the trunk (just Flat Grey, Tomahawk,
> Default and Multiflex).
> We will have more people that will be able to maintain additional themes in
> the Themes Gallery.
>
> Production servers will have each one its selected theme (one of the OOTB,
> one of the Themes Gallery or a customized version of them).
>
> -Bruno
>
> 2011/1/6 BJ Freeman<[hidden email]>
>
>> how about those that are using ofbiz for SAS and will have many themes for
>> their clients.
>>
>>
>>
>> Bruno Busco sent the following on 1/6/2011 12:51 PM:
>>
>>> Yes, having more than one theme in the trunk was originally accepted in
>>>
>>> order to use and show the visual theme selection feature OOTB.
>>> Actually Bluelight, Dropping Crumbs and Tomahawk are one the evolution of
>>> the other.
>>> Each time we decided to create a new theme instead of replacing the one
>>> existing just to avoid problems to users.
>>>
>>> My proposal is to remove Bluelight, Dropping Crumbs and BizznessTime from
>>> the trunk and put them in a separate themes repository as suggested by
>>> Ryan.
>>> Remove the actual version of the Flat Grey from the trunk and put it in
>>> the
>>> themes repository.
>>> Improve the Flat Grey theme in the trunk with the work you guys are doing.
>>>
>>> In this way we will have in the trunk two themes for the backend (Actual
>>> FlatGrey and Tomahawk) and two themes for the ecommerce (Default and
>>> Multiflex).
>>> In the themes repository there will be Bluelight, Dropping Crumbs,
>>> BizznessTime and the actual FlatGrey.
>>> It could be a nice start for the theme repository (and gallery) start.
>>>
>>> -Bruno
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 2011/1/6 Jacques Le Roux<[hidden email]>
>>>
>>>   Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>
>>>>   inline...
>>>>>
>>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 6, 2011, at 11:38 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>   Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   Jacques,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I understand your concerns about support, and your thoughts on the
>>>>>>> themes has some valid points.  However, in regards to the
>>>>>>> BizznessTime theme, I never really intended for that to be "my" theme
>>>>>>> anyway.  I always viewed it as a community theme as that
>>>>>>> was it's original intent and it was truly a collaborative effort to
>>>>>>> build it between myself, my colleagues at HotWax, BrainFood,
>>>>>>> and other members of the the OFBiz community.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Right, sorry for that Ryan. It's only because I know you were one of
>>>>>>   the
>>>>>> "fathers" (the most important I guess) and helped much
>>>>>> at the beginning, my apologies.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   At any rate, my time issues and focus have shifted significantly over
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> the last few months as I have left HotWax and gone into
>>>>>>> independent consulting and freelance development.  I plan on taking a
>>>>>>> much more active role in the community in the months and
>>>>>>> years ahead.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's really a good, very good news!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   As far as theme contributions go, I wonder if maybe it would be a good
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> idea to have a theme repo outside of the trunk that
>>>>>>> individuals could commit to?  The problem with theme maintenance once
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> new theme has been added to the trunk is that not
>>>>>>> everyone has commit privileges to the trunk.  This makes the process
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> maintenance a lot more time consuming for individual
>>>>>>> contributors as they have to rely on patches, updates, collaboration,
>>>>>>> etc, rather than just monitoring and maintaining their own
>>>>>>> code.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> This could certainly be discussed as themes are no blocking parts as
>>>>>> long
>>>>>> as *at least one works "perfectly"* (another way is to
>>>>>> become committer), opinions?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> I think the way that Magento and Wordpress do it are good examples.
>>>>>   With
>>>>> Wordpress, there is one "official" theme that is
>>>>> included with the install, but there are literally thousands of themes
>>>>> that are not maintained by Wordpress that they list on
>>>>> there site http://wordpress.org/extend/themes/, and now with the 3.0
>>>>> release you can even search for new themes and install them
>>>>> automatically from inside your Wordpress install.  Doing it this way
>>>>> fosters wider community support by delegating maintenance of
>>>>> these themes to individual contributors rather than forcing it on a
>>>>> handful of committers and also allows developers to monetize
>>>>> there contributions by offering "premium" themes and plugins.  In fact,
>>>>> there are many individuals and companies in the Wordpress
>>>>> community that make their living solely by selling themes and plugins.
>>>>>   This furthers solidifies the base of support for the
>>>>> project by offering a mid-tier option for someone who wants something
>>>>> more
>>>>> than OOTB but can't necessarily afford custom
>>>>> development.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> This makes good sense indeed. The only difference, I guess, is
>>>> unfortunately the width of the audience. This does not mean that we
>>>> should
>>>> not try...
>>>>
>>>> Jacques
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>   Jacques
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jan 6, 2011, at 8:17 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   From my perspective, I don't see much chance in the Flat Grey visual
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> theme being abandoned. Enough people use it that it will
>>>>>>>> get the attention it needs. If Ryan isn't available to fix something,
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> can fix it. If I'm not available, someone else could
>>>>>>>> fix it, etc.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 1/6/2011 6:02 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>   Ryan,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Your screen copies at
>>>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-4092
>>>>>>>>> looks really great! Looking forward for the implementation...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> My concerns are that maybe you will not have enough time later to
>>>>>>>>> keep
>>>>>>>>> up with possible bugs or other issues. Look for instance what
>>>>>>>>> happened
>>>>>>>>> to Bizzness Time https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-2398.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Even if it looks a bit old, we have a theme which works great. Why
>>>>>>>>> taking any risks with it? Also I can't see any issues with having
>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>> themes. The more we have the better, I like to have the choice. Some
>>>>>>>>> (rare) people prefer to use old things, see games machines or
>>>>>>>>> synthesizers for instance (I still love the DX-7 sound
>>>>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_DX7
>>>>>>>>> http://www.vintagesynth.com/yamaha/dx7.php)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> There are any evolved version of Flat Grey yet. So this could be the
>>>>>>>>> 1st
>>>>>>>>> modern one still using the RTL mechanism introduced by Adrian. Just
>>>>>>>>> choice the name!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>   IMO I see no reason to have a "Flat Grey Evolution" theme. Adrian
>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>> right, the Flat Grey theme hasn't had a visual update in
>>>>>>>>>> years and it looks very dated. It needs some love. Let's not add
>>>>>>>>>> another improved version, let's just improve the version we
>>>>>>>>>> have now. I think that is more efficient and more beneficial in the
>>>>>>>>>> long run.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> As far as the tabs go, we can still keep a horizontal, tab-like
>>>>>>>>>> navigation without actually having the tabs look like tabs.
>>>>>>>>>> Because, the absolutely do look terrible displayed in two rows.
>>>>>>>>>> Adrian, I would be happy to collaborate with you on this. I
>>>>>>>>>> think I have some ideas that could help. Email me directly if you
>>>>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>>>>> to hash out some ideas outside of this mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> discussion.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Consequently, as far as new admin themes go, I guess I can use this
>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>> an opportunity as well to drop a teaser about a new theme
>>>>>>>>>> I have been working on already for some time now that I honestly
>>>>>>>>>> hope
>>>>>>>>>> will become the go-to theme for scalability and
>>>>>>>>>> customization, and that will eventually replace the Flat Grey theme
>>>>>>>>>> altogether. The new theme scales down very well to 800x600
>>>>>>>>>> and has minimal styling for maximum flexibility and customization.
>>>>>>>>>> Stay tuned for more details in the next few days...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 3, 2011, at 11:04 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>   Chiclet refers to a brand of chewing gum. The tabs look like
>>>>>>>>>> pieces
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> of Chiclets chewing gum. They look terrible when they are
>>>>>>>>>>> displayed in two rows.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Mon, 1/3/11, Jacques Le Roux<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>   By "chiclet" main navigation style,
>>>>>>>>>>>> you mean the tabs? Then I think we should keep Flat Grey as
>>>>>>>>>>>> it is (because there are advantages
>>>>>>>>>>>> to have tabs) and create a Flat Grey evolution...
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Adrian Crum"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>   I was thinking we could use colors from the Apache logo
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>   and the BizznessTime theme. I would also like to get rid of
>>>>>>>>>>>> the "chiclet"
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>   main navigation style, and maybe have that menu in a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>   collapsible left column.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Sun, 1/2/11, Sascha Rodekamp
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>   wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>   From: Sascha Rodekamp<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Discussion: Flat Grey Visual Theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: [hidden email],
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   "Jacques Le Roux"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>   Date: Sunday, January 2, 2011, 2:27 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I really would appreciate to keep the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Flat Gray. But you're right it needs a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> few visual improvements.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me think about this, maybe somethink comes to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   my mind
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>   ..... :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2010/12/29 Jacques Le Roux<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   IIRW, it's the only really RTL capable. So a big YES to keep
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have no ideas though :/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Adrian Crum"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Flat Grey visual theme is getting old.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The current version of the theme is based on the original
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> look
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and feel of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OFBiz when I first joined the community - back in 2004.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Around
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Spring of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2007 I added some gradient gifs to make the original style a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> little more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interesting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After that, the visual theme was converted to a floating
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> flexible layout
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (to fit any size screen), it was made
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   sight-impaired accessible (font size
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   can be changed), and it added support for bi-directional
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> layout
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (for rtl
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> languages). Those design decisions were made by the OFBiz
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> community and, in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my opinion, continue to make the Flat Grey theme the fallback
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme when all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> else fails. It just works.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Despite its advantages, it looks dated. I would like to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> update
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it to make
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it more modern, but maintain its advantages over the other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes. I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking it only needs css and gif file updates. The current
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> templates and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> javascripts would be maintained.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If anyone is interested, they are welcome to help out. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> appreciate any suggestions or comments.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me know what you think.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sascha Rodekamp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lynx-Consulting GmbH
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Johanniskirchplatz 6
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> D-33615 Bielefeld
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.lynx.de
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>

[Bruno Busco]

The theme will still be present in the 10.04 releases.
No production servers should rely on trunk.

-Bruno

2011/1/6 BJ Freeman <[hidden email]>

> I have one that uses the flat grey as default
> so if I do an update from the svn the flat grey will and my customization
> disappear.
>
> my sas uses all those in the themes, with my modification.
> they will be removed. when the svn update is run.
>
> those are just a few examples.
>
>
> =========================
> BJ Freeman
> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation  <
> http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
> Specialtymarket.com  <http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>
> Chat  Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>
>
> Bruno Busco sent the following on 1/6/2011 2:00 PM:
>
>  I am sorry, BJ, I do not see your point.
>>
>> What could be the issue?
>> We will have less themes to maintain in the trunk (just Flat Grey,
>> Tomahawk,
>> Default and Multiflex).
>> We will have more people that will be able to maintain additional themes
>> in
>> the Themes Gallery.
>>
>> Production servers will have each one its selected theme (one of the OOTB,
>> one of the Themes Gallery or a customized version of them).
>>
>> -Bruno
>>
>> 2011/1/6 BJ Freeman<[hidden email]>
>>
>>  how about those that are using ofbiz for SAS and will have many themes
>>> for
>>> their clients.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Bruno Busco sent the following on 1/6/2011 12:51 PM:
>>>
>>>  Yes, having more than one theme in the trunk was originally accepted in
>>>>
>>>> order to use and show the visual theme selection feature OOTB.
>>>> Actually Bluelight, Dropping Crumbs and Tomahawk are one the evolution
>>>> of
>>>> the other.
>>>> Each time we decided to create a new theme instead of replacing the one
>>>> existing just to avoid problems to users.
>>>>
>>>> My proposal is to remove Bluelight, Dropping Crumbs and BizznessTime
>>>> from
>>>> the trunk and put them in a separate themes repository as suggested by
>>>> Ryan.
>>>> Remove the actual version of the Flat Grey from the trunk and put it in
>>>> the
>>>> themes repository.
>>>> Improve the Flat Grey theme in the trunk with the work you guys are
>>>> doing.
>>>>
>>>> In this way we will have in the trunk two themes for the backend (Actual
>>>> FlatGrey and Tomahawk) and two themes for the ecommerce (Default and
>>>> Multiflex).
>>>> In the themes repository there will be Bluelight, Dropping Crumbs,
>>>> BizznessTime and the actual FlatGrey.
>>>> It could be a nice start for the theme repository (and gallery) start.
>>>>
>>>> -Bruno
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2011/1/6 Jacques Le Roux<[hidden email]>
>>>>
>>>>  Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  inline...
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jan 6, 2011, at 11:38 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  Jacques,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I understand your concerns about support, and your thoughts on the
>>>>>>>> themes has some valid points.  However, in regards to the
>>>>>>>> BizznessTime theme, I never really intended for that to be "my"
>>>>>>>> theme
>>>>>>>> anyway.  I always viewed it as a community theme as that
>>>>>>>> was it's original intent and it was truly a collaborative effort to
>>>>>>>> build it between myself, my colleagues at HotWax, BrainFood,
>>>>>>>> and other members of the the OFBiz community.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  Right, sorry for that Ryan. It's only because I know you were one
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>  the
>>>>>>> "fathers" (the most important I guess) and helped much
>>>>>>> at the beginning, my apologies.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  At any rate, my time issues and focus have shifted significantly
>>>>>>> over
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  the last few months as I have left HotWax and gone into
>>>>>>>> independent consulting and freelance development.  I plan on taking
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> much more active role in the community in the months and
>>>>>>>> years ahead.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  That's really a good, very good news!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  As far as theme contributions go, I wonder if maybe it would be a
>>>>>>> good
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  idea to have a theme repo outside of the trunk that
>>>>>>>> individuals could commit to?  The problem with theme maintenance
>>>>>>>> once
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> new theme has been added to the trunk is that not
>>>>>>>> everyone has commit privileges to the trunk.  This makes the process
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> maintenance a lot more time consuming for individual
>>>>>>>> contributors as they have to rely on patches, updates,
>>>>>>>> collaboration,
>>>>>>>> etc, rather than just monitoring and maintaining their own
>>>>>>>> code.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  This could certainly be discussed as themes are no blocking parts
>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>> long
>>>>>>> as *at least one works "perfectly"* (another way is to
>>>>>>> become committer), opinions?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  I think the way that Magento and Wordpress do it are good examples.
>>>>>>  With
>>>>>> Wordpress, there is one "official" theme that is
>>>>>> included with the install, but there are literally thousands of themes
>>>>>> that are not maintained by Wordpress that they list on
>>>>>> there site http://wordpress.org/extend/themes/, and now with the 3.0
>>>>>> release you can even search for new themes and install them
>>>>>> automatically from inside your Wordpress install.  Doing it this way
>>>>>> fosters wider community support by delegating maintenance of
>>>>>> these themes to individual contributors rather than forcing it on a
>>>>>> handful of committers and also allows developers to monetize
>>>>>> there contributions by offering "premium" themes and plugins.  In
>>>>>> fact,
>>>>>> there are many individuals and companies in the Wordpress
>>>>>> community that make their living solely by selling themes and plugins.
>>>>>>  This furthers solidifies the base of support for the
>>>>>> project by offering a mid-tier option for someone who wants something
>>>>>> more
>>>>>> than OOTB but can't necessarily afford custom
>>>>>> development.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  This makes good sense indeed. The only difference, I guess, is
>>>>> unfortunately the width of the audience. This does not mean that we
>>>>> should
>>>>> not try...
>>>>>
>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  Jacques
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  801.671.0769
>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Jan 6, 2011, at 8:17 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  From my perspective, I don't see much chance in the Flat Grey
>>>>>>>> visual
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  theme being abandoned. Enough people use it that it will
>>>>>>>>> get the attention it needs. If Ryan isn't available to fix
>>>>>>>>> something,
>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> can fix it. If I'm not available, someone else could
>>>>>>>>> fix it, etc.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 1/6/2011 6:02 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  Ryan,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Your screen copies at
>>>>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-4092
>>>>>>>>>> looks really great! Looking forward for the implementation...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> My concerns are that maybe you will not have enough time later to
>>>>>>>>>> keep
>>>>>>>>>> up with possible bugs or other issues. Look for instance what
>>>>>>>>>> happened
>>>>>>>>>> to Bizzness Time https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-2398
>>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Even if it looks a bit old, we have a theme which works great. Why
>>>>>>>>>> taking any risks with it? Also I can't see any issues with having
>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>> themes. The more we have the better, I like to have the choice.
>>>>>>>>>> Some
>>>>>>>>>> (rare) people prefer to use old things, see games machines or
>>>>>>>>>> synthesizers for instance (I still love the DX-7 sound
>>>>>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_DX7
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.vintagesynth.com/yamaha/dx7.php)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> There are any evolved version of Flat Grey yet. So this could be
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> 1st
>>>>>>>>>> modern one still using the RTL mechanism introduced by Adrian.
>>>>>>>>>> Just
>>>>>>>>>> choice the name!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>  IMO I see no reason to have a "Flat Grey Evolution" theme. Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>> right, the Flat Grey theme hasn't had a visual update in
>>>>>>>>>>> years and it looks very dated. It needs some love. Let's not add
>>>>>>>>>>> another improved version, let's just improve the version we
>>>>>>>>>>> have now. I think that is more efficient and more beneficial in
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> long run.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> As far as the tabs go, we can still keep a horizontal, tab-like
>>>>>>>>>>> navigation without actually having the tabs look like tabs.
>>>>>>>>>>> Because, the absolutely do look terrible displayed in two rows.
>>>>>>>>>>> Adrian, I would be happy to collaborate with you on this. I
>>>>>>>>>>> think I have some ideas that could help. Email me directly if you
>>>>>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>>>>>> to hash out some ideas outside of this mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> discussion.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Consequently, as far as new admin themes go, I guess I can use
>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>> an opportunity as well to drop a teaser about a new theme
>>>>>>>>>>> I have been working on already for some time now that I honestly
>>>>>>>>>>> hope
>>>>>>>>>>> will become the go-to theme for scalability and
>>>>>>>>>>> customization, and that will eventually replace the Flat Grey
>>>>>>>>>>> theme
>>>>>>>>>>> altogether. The new theme scales down very well to 800x600
>>>>>>>>>>> and has minimal styling for maximum flexibility and
>>>>>>>>>>> customization.
>>>>>>>>>>> Stay tuned for more details in the next few days...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 3, 2011, at 11:04 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>  Chiclet refers to a brand of chewing gum. The tabs look like
>>>>>>>>>>> pieces
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>  of Chiclets chewing gum. They look terrible when they are
>>>>>>>>>>>> displayed in two rows.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Mon, 1/3/11, Jacques Le Roux<
>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>  By "chiclet" main navigation style,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> you mean the tabs? Then I think we should keep Flat Grey as
>>>>>>>>>>>>> it is (because there are advantages
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to have tabs) and create a Flat Grey evolution...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Adrian Crum"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  I was thinking we could use colors from the Apache logo
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  and the BizznessTime theme. I would also like to get rid of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the "chiclet"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  main navigation style, and maybe have that menu in a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  collapsible left column.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Sun, 1/2/11, Sascha Rodekamp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>   From: Sascha Rodekamp<[hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  Subject: Re: Discussion: Flat Grey Visual Theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: [hidden email],
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  "Jacques Le Roux"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  Date: Sunday, January 2, 2011, 2:27 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  I really would appreciate to keep the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Flat Gray. But you're right it needs a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> few visual improvements.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me think about this, maybe somethink comes to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  my mind
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  ..... :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2010/12/29 Jacques Le Roux<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  IIRW, it's the only really RTL capable. So a big YES to keep
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  of course.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have no ideas though :/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Adrian Crum"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Flat Grey visual theme is getting old.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  The current version of the theme is based on the original
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> look
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and feel of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OFBiz when I first joined the community - back in 2004.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Around
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Spring of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2007 I added some gradient gifs to make the original style
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> little more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interesting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After that, the visual theme was converted to a floating
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> flexible layout
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (to fit any size screen), it was made
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  sight-impaired accessible (font size
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  can be changed), and it added support for bi-directional
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> layout
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  (for rtl
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> languages). Those design decisions were made by the OFBiz
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> community and, in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my opinion, continue to make the Flat Grey theme the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fallback
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme when all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> else fails. It just works.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Despite its advantages, it looks dated. I would like to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> update
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it to make
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it more modern, but maintain its advantages over the other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes. I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking it only needs css and gif file updates. The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> current
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> templates and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> javascripts would be maintained.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If anyone is interested, they are welcome to help out. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> appreciate any suggestions or comments.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me know what you think.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sascha Rodekamp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lynx-Consulting GmbH
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Johanniskirchplatz 6
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> D-33615 Bielefeld
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.lynx.de
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>

[Ryan Foster-3]

Agreed.  I don't know anyone that updates a production server directly from a development trunk, especially not a community driven open-source development trunk.

Ryan L. Foster
801.671.0769
[hidden email]

On Jan 6, 2011, at 3:33 PM, Bruno Busco wrote:

> The theme will still be present in the 10.04 releases.
> No production servers should rely on trunk.
>
> -Bruno
>
> 2011/1/6 BJ Freeman <[hidden email]>
>
>> I have one that uses the flat grey as default
>> so if I do an update from the svn the flat grey will and my customization
>> disappear.
>>
>> my sas uses all those in the themes, with my modification.
>> they will be removed. when the svn update is run.
>>
>> those are just a few examples.
>>
>>
>> =========================
>> BJ Freeman
>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation  <
>> http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>> Specialtymarket.com  <http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>
>> Chat  Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>
>>
>> Bruno Busco sent the following on 1/6/2011 2:00 PM:
>>
>> I am sorry, BJ, I do not see your point.
>>>
>>> What could be the issue?
>>> We will have less themes to maintain in the trunk (just Flat Grey,
>>> Tomahawk,
>>> Default and Multiflex).
>>> We will have more people that will be able to maintain additional themes
>>> in
>>> the Themes Gallery.
>>>
>>> Production servers will have each one its selected theme (one of the OOTB,
>>> one of the Themes Gallery or a customized version of them).
>>>
>>> -Bruno
>>>
>>> 2011/1/6 BJ Freeman<[hidden email]>
>>>
>>> how about those that are using ofbiz for SAS and will have many themes
>>>> for
>>>> their clients.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Bruno Busco sent the following on 1/6/2011 12:51 PM:
>>>>
>>>> Yes, having more than one theme in the trunk was originally accepted in
>>>>>
>>>>> order to use and show the visual theme selection feature OOTB.
>>>>> Actually Bluelight, Dropping Crumbs and Tomahawk are one the evolution
>>>>> of
>>>>> the other.
>>>>> Each time we decided to create a new theme instead of replacing the one
>>>>> existing just to avoid problems to users.
>>>>>
>>>>> My proposal is to remove Bluelight, Dropping Crumbs and BizznessTime
>>>>> from
>>>>> the trunk and put them in a separate themes repository as suggested by
>>>>> Ryan.
>>>>> Remove the actual version of the Flat Grey from the trunk and put it in
>>>>> the
>>>>> themes repository.
>>>>> Improve the Flat Grey theme in the trunk with the work you guys are
>>>>> doing.
>>>>>
>>>>> In this way we will have in the trunk two themes for the backend (Actual
>>>>> FlatGrey and Tomahawk) and two themes for the ecommerce (Default and
>>>>> Multiflex).
>>>>> In the themes repository there will be Bluelight, Dropping Crumbs,
>>>>> BizznessTime and the actual FlatGrey.
>>>>> It could be a nice start for the theme repository (and gallery) start.
>>>>>
>>>>> -Bruno
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 2011/1/6 Jacques Le Roux<[hidden email]>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> inline...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jan 6, 2011, at 11:38 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jacques,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I understand your concerns about support, and your thoughts on the
>>>>>>>>> themes has some valid points.  However, in regards to the
>>>>>>>>> BizznessTime theme, I never really intended for that to be "my"
>>>>>>>>> theme
>>>>>>>>> anyway.  I always viewed it as a community theme as that
>>>>>>>>> was it's original intent and it was truly a collaborative effort to
>>>>>>>>> build it between myself, my colleagues at HotWax, BrainFood,
>>>>>>>>> and other members of the the OFBiz community.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Right, sorry for that Ryan. It's only because I know you were one
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> "fathers" (the most important I guess) and helped much
>>>>>>>> at the beginning, my apologies.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> At any rate, my time issues and focus have shifted significantly
>>>>>>>> over
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> the last few months as I have left HotWax and gone into
>>>>>>>>> independent consulting and freelance development.  I plan on taking
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> much more active role in the community in the months and
>>>>>>>>> years ahead.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That's really a good, very good news!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As far as theme contributions go, I wonder if maybe it would be a
>>>>>>>> good
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> idea to have a theme repo outside of the trunk that
>>>>>>>>> individuals could commit to?  The problem with theme maintenance
>>>>>>>>> once
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> new theme has been added to the trunk is that not
>>>>>>>>> everyone has commit privileges to the trunk.  This makes the process
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> maintenance a lot more time consuming for individual
>>>>>>>>> contributors as they have to rely on patches, updates,
>>>>>>>>> collaboration,
>>>>>>>>> etc, rather than just monitoring and maintaining their own
>>>>>>>>> code.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This could certainly be discussed as themes are no blocking parts
>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>> long
>>>>>>>> as *at least one works "perfectly"* (another way is to
>>>>>>>> become committer), opinions?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I think the way that Magento and Wordpress do it are good examples.
>>>>>>> With
>>>>>>> Wordpress, there is one "official" theme that is
>>>>>>> included with the install, but there are literally thousands of themes
>>>>>>> that are not maintained by Wordpress that they list on
>>>>>>> there site http://wordpress.org/extend/themes/, and now with the 3.0
>>>>>>> release you can even search for new themes and install them
>>>>>>> automatically from inside your Wordpress install.  Doing it this way
>>>>>>> fosters wider community support by delegating maintenance of
>>>>>>> these themes to individual contributors rather than forcing it on a
>>>>>>> handful of committers and also allows developers to monetize
>>>>>>> there contributions by offering "premium" themes and plugins.  In
>>>>>>> fact,
>>>>>>> there are many individuals and companies in the Wordpress
>>>>>>> community that make their living solely by selling themes and plugins.
>>>>>>> This furthers solidifies the base of support for the
>>>>>>> project by offering a mid-tier option for someone who wants something
>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>> than OOTB but can't necessarily afford custom
>>>>>>> development.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This makes good sense indeed. The only difference, I guess, is
>>>>>> unfortunately the width of the audience. This does not mean that we
>>>>>> should
>>>>>> not try...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Jan 6, 2011, at 8:17 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> From my perspective, I don't see much chance in the Flat Grey
>>>>>>>>> visual
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> theme being abandoned. Enough people use it that it will
>>>>>>>>>> get the attention it needs. If Ryan isn't available to fix
>>>>>>>>>> something,
>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>> can fix it. If I'm not available, someone else could
>>>>>>>>>> fix it, etc.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 1/6/2011 6:02 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Ryan,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Your screen copies at
>>>>>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-4092
>>>>>>>>>>> looks really great! Looking forward for the implementation...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> My concerns are that maybe you will not have enough time later to
>>>>>>>>>>> keep
>>>>>>>>>>> up with possible bugs or other issues. Look for instance what
>>>>>>>>>>> happened
>>>>>>>>>>> to Bizzness Time https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-2398
>>>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Even if it looks a bit old, we have a theme which works great. Why
>>>>>>>>>>> taking any risks with it? Also I can't see any issues with having
>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>> themes. The more we have the better, I like to have the choice.
>>>>>>>>>>> Some
>>>>>>>>>>> (rare) people prefer to use old things, see games machines or
>>>>>>>>>>> synthesizers for instance (I still love the DX-7 sound
>>>>>>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_DX7
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.vintagesynth.com/yamaha/dx7.php)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> There are any evolved version of Flat Grey yet. So this could be
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> 1st
>>>>>>>>>>> modern one still using the RTL mechanism introduced by Adrian.
>>>>>>>>>>> Just
>>>>>>>>>>> choice the name!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> IMO I see no reason to have a "Flat Grey Evolution" theme. Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>> right, the Flat Grey theme hasn't had a visual update in
>>>>>>>>>>>> years and it looks very dated. It needs some love. Let's not add
>>>>>>>>>>>> another improved version, let's just improve the version we
>>>>>>>>>>>> have now. I think that is more efficient and more beneficial in
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> long run.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> As far as the tabs go, we can still keep a horizontal, tab-like
>>>>>>>>>>>> navigation without actually having the tabs look like tabs.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Because, the absolutely do look terrible displayed in two rows.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Adrian, I would be happy to collaborate with you on this. I
>>>>>>>>>>>> think I have some ideas that could help. Email me directly if you
>>>>>>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>>>>>>> to hash out some ideas outside of this mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> discussion.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Consequently, as far as new admin themes go, I guess I can use
>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>> an opportunity as well to drop a teaser about a new theme
>>>>>>>>>>>> I have been working on already for some time now that I honestly
>>>>>>>>>>>> hope
>>>>>>>>>>>> will become the go-to theme for scalability and
>>>>>>>>>>>> customization, and that will eventually replace the Flat Grey
>>>>>>>>>>>> theme
>>>>>>>>>>>> altogether. The new theme scales down very well to 800x600
>>>>>>>>>>>> and has minimal styling for maximum flexibility and
>>>>>>>>>>>> customization.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Stay tuned for more details in the next few days...
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 3, 2011, at 11:04 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Chiclet refers to a brand of chewing gum. The tabs look like
>>>>>>>>>>>> pieces
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> of Chiclets chewing gum. They look terrible when they are
>>>>>>>>>>>>> displayed in two rows.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Mon, 1/3/11, Jacques Le Roux<
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> By "chiclet" main navigation style,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you mean the tabs? Then I think we should keep Flat Grey as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it is (because there are advantages
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to have tabs) and create a Flat Grey evolution...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Adrian Crum"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was thinking we could use colors from the Apache logo
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the BizznessTime theme. I would also like to get rid of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the "chiclet"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> main navigation style, and maybe have that menu in a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> collapsible left column.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Sun, 1/2/11, Sascha Rodekamp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  From: Sascha Rodekamp<[hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Discussion: Flat Grey Visual Theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: [hidden email],
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Jacques Le Roux"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Sunday, January 2, 2011, 2:27 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I really would appreciate to keep the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Flat Gray. But you're right it needs a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> few visual improvements.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me think about this, maybe somethink comes to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my mind
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ..... :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2010/12/29 Jacques Le Roux<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> IIRW, it's the only really RTL capable. So a big YES to keep
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have no ideas though :/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Adrian Crum"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Flat Grey visual theme is getting old.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The current version of the theme is based on the original
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> look
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and feel of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OFBiz when I first joined the community - back in 2004.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Around
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Spring of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2007 I added some gradient gifs to make the original style
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> little more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interesting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After that, the visual theme was converted to a floating
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> flexible layout
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (to fit any size screen), it was made
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sight-impaired accessible (font size
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can be changed), and it added support for bi-directional
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> layout
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (for rtl
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> languages). Those design decisions were made by the OFBiz
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> community and, in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my opinion, continue to make the Flat Grey theme the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fallback
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme when all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> else fails. It just works.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Despite its advantages, it looks dated. I would like to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> update
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it to make
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it more modern, but maintain its advantages over the other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes. I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking it only needs css and gif file updates. The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> current
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> templates and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> javascripts would be maintained.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If anyone is interested, they are welcome to help out. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> appreciate any suggestions or comments.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me know what you think.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sascha Rodekamp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lynx-Consulting GmbH
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Johanniskirchplatz 6
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> D-33615 Bielefeld
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.lynx.de
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>

[Bruno Busco]

As I said before, there are so many themes in the trunk right now just to
avoid troubles to users.
But we have seen that this is not a good way to manage themes in the long
time.
We need to break this chain now or we will have too many themes in the
trunk.

-Bruno

2011/1/6 Bruno Busco <[hidden email]>

> The theme will still be present in the 10.04 releases.
> No production servers should rely on trunk.
>
>
> -Bruno
>
> 2011/1/6 BJ Freeman <[hidden email]>
>
>> I have one that uses the flat grey as default
>> so if I do an update from the svn the flat grey will and my customization
>> disappear.
>>
>> my sas uses all those in the themes, with my modification.
>> they will be removed. when the svn update is run.
>>
>> those are just a few examples.
>>
>>
>> =========================
>> BJ Freeman
>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation  <
>> http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>> Specialtymarket.com  <http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>
>> Chat  Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>
>>
>> Bruno Busco sent the following on 1/6/2011 2:00 PM:
>>
>>  I am sorry, BJ, I do not see your point.
>>>
>>> What could be the issue?
>>> We will have less themes to maintain in the trunk (just Flat Grey,
>>> Tomahawk,
>>> Default and Multiflex).
>>> We will have more people that will be able to maintain additional themes
>>> in
>>> the Themes Gallery.
>>>
>>> Production servers will have each one its selected theme (one of the
>>> OOTB,
>>> one of the Themes Gallery or a customized version of them).
>>>
>>> -Bruno
>>>
>>> 2011/1/6 BJ Freeman<[hidden email]>
>>>
>>>  how about those that are using ofbiz for SAS and will have many themes
>>>> for
>>>> their clients.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Bruno Busco sent the following on 1/6/2011 12:51 PM:
>>>>
>>>>  Yes, having more than one theme in the trunk was originally accepted in
>>>>>
>>>>> order to use and show the visual theme selection feature OOTB.
>>>>> Actually Bluelight, Dropping Crumbs and Tomahawk are one the evolution
>>>>> of
>>>>> the other.
>>>>> Each time we decided to create a new theme instead of replacing the one
>>>>> existing just to avoid problems to users.
>>>>>
>>>>> My proposal is to remove Bluelight, Dropping Crumbs and BizznessTime
>>>>> from
>>>>> the trunk and put them in a separate themes repository as suggested by
>>>>> Ryan.
>>>>> Remove the actual version of the Flat Grey from the trunk and put it in
>>>>> the
>>>>> themes repository.
>>>>> Improve the Flat Grey theme in the trunk with the work you guys are
>>>>> doing.
>>>>>
>>>>> In this way we will have in the trunk two themes for the backend
>>>>> (Actual
>>>>> FlatGrey and Tomahawk) and two themes for the ecommerce (Default and
>>>>> Multiflex).
>>>>> In the themes repository there will be Bluelight, Dropping Crumbs,
>>>>> BizznessTime and the actual FlatGrey.
>>>>> It could be a nice start for the theme repository (and gallery) start.
>>>>>
>>>>> -Bruno
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 2011/1/6 Jacques Le Roux<[hidden email]>
>>>>>
>>>>>  Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  inline...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jan 6, 2011, at 11:38 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  Jacques,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I understand your concerns about support, and your thoughts on the
>>>>>>>>> themes has some valid points.  However, in regards to the
>>>>>>>>> BizznessTime theme, I never really intended for that to be "my"
>>>>>>>>> theme
>>>>>>>>> anyway.  I always viewed it as a community theme as that
>>>>>>>>> was it's original intent and it was truly a collaborative effort to
>>>>>>>>> build it between myself, my colleagues at HotWax, BrainFood,
>>>>>>>>> and other members of the the OFBiz community.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  Right, sorry for that Ryan. It's only because I know you were one
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>  the
>>>>>>>> "fathers" (the most important I guess) and helped much
>>>>>>>> at the beginning, my apologies.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  At any rate, my time issues and focus have shifted significantly
>>>>>>>> over
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  the last few months as I have left HotWax and gone into
>>>>>>>>> independent consulting and freelance development.  I plan on taking
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> much more active role in the community in the months and
>>>>>>>>> years ahead.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  That's really a good, very good news!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  As far as theme contributions go, I wonder if maybe it would be a
>>>>>>>> good
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  idea to have a theme repo outside of the trunk that
>>>>>>>>> individuals could commit to?  The problem with theme maintenance
>>>>>>>>> once
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> new theme has been added to the trunk is that not
>>>>>>>>> everyone has commit privileges to the trunk.  This makes the
>>>>>>>>> process
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> maintenance a lot more time consuming for individual
>>>>>>>>> contributors as they have to rely on patches, updates,
>>>>>>>>> collaboration,
>>>>>>>>> etc, rather than just monitoring and maintaining their own
>>>>>>>>> code.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  This could certainly be discussed as themes are no blocking parts
>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>> long
>>>>>>>> as *at least one works "perfectly"* (another way is to
>>>>>>>> become committer), opinions?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  I think the way that Magento and Wordpress do it are good examples.
>>>>>>>  With
>>>>>>> Wordpress, there is one "official" theme that is
>>>>>>> included with the install, but there are literally thousands of
>>>>>>> themes
>>>>>>> that are not maintained by Wordpress that they list on
>>>>>>> there site http://wordpress.org/extend/themes/, and now with the 3.0
>>>>>>> release you can even search for new themes and install them
>>>>>>> automatically from inside your Wordpress install.  Doing it this way
>>>>>>> fosters wider community support by delegating maintenance of
>>>>>>> these themes to individual contributors rather than forcing it on a
>>>>>>> handful of committers and also allows developers to monetize
>>>>>>> there contributions by offering "premium" themes and plugins.  In
>>>>>>> fact,
>>>>>>> there are many individuals and companies in the Wordpress
>>>>>>> community that make their living solely by selling themes and
>>>>>>> plugins.
>>>>>>>  This furthers solidifies the base of support for the
>>>>>>> project by offering a mid-tier option for someone who wants something
>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>> than OOTB but can't necessarily afford custom
>>>>>>> development.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  This makes good sense indeed. The only difference, I guess, is
>>>>>> unfortunately the width of the audience. This does not mean that we
>>>>>> should
>>>>>> not try...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Jacques
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  801.671.0769
>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Jan 6, 2011, at 8:17 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  From my perspective, I don't see much chance in the Flat Grey
>>>>>>>>> visual
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  theme being abandoned. Enough people use it that it will
>>>>>>>>>> get the attention it needs. If Ryan isn't available to fix
>>>>>>>>>> something,
>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>> can fix it. If I'm not available, someone else could
>>>>>>>>>> fix it, etc.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 1/6/2011 6:02 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>  Ryan,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Your screen copies at
>>>>>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-4092
>>>>>>>>>>> looks really great! Looking forward for the implementation...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> My concerns are that maybe you will not have enough time later to
>>>>>>>>>>> keep
>>>>>>>>>>> up with possible bugs or other issues. Look for instance what
>>>>>>>>>>> happened
>>>>>>>>>>> to Bizzness Time
>>>>>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-2398.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Even if it looks a bit old, we have a theme which works great.
>>>>>>>>>>> Why
>>>>>>>>>>> taking any risks with it? Also I can't see any issues with having
>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>> themes. The more we have the better, I like to have the choice.
>>>>>>>>>>> Some
>>>>>>>>>>> (rare) people prefer to use old things, see games machines or
>>>>>>>>>>> synthesizers for instance (I still love the DX-7 sound
>>>>>>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_DX7
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.vintagesynth.com/yamaha/dx7.php)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> There are any evolved version of Flat Grey yet. So this could be
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> 1st
>>>>>>>>>>> modern one still using the RTL mechanism introduced by Adrian.
>>>>>>>>>>> Just
>>>>>>>>>>> choice the name!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>  IMO I see no reason to have a "Flat Grey Evolution" theme.
>>>>>>>>>>> Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>> right, the Flat Grey theme hasn't had a visual update in
>>>>>>>>>>>> years and it looks very dated. It needs some love. Let's not add
>>>>>>>>>>>> another improved version, let's just improve the version we
>>>>>>>>>>>> have now. I think that is more efficient and more beneficial in
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> long run.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> As far as the tabs go, we can still keep a horizontal, tab-like
>>>>>>>>>>>> navigation without actually having the tabs look like tabs.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Because, the absolutely do look terrible displayed in two rows.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Adrian, I would be happy to collaborate with you on this. I
>>>>>>>>>>>> think I have some ideas that could help. Email me directly if
>>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>>>>>>> to hash out some ideas outside of this mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> discussion.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Consequently, as far as new admin themes go, I guess I can use
>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>> an opportunity as well to drop a teaser about a new theme
>>>>>>>>>>>> I have been working on already for some time now that I honestly
>>>>>>>>>>>> hope
>>>>>>>>>>>> will become the go-to theme for scalability and
>>>>>>>>>>>> customization, and that will eventually replace the Flat Grey
>>>>>>>>>>>> theme
>>>>>>>>>>>> altogether. The new theme scales down very well to 800x600
>>>>>>>>>>>> and has minimal styling for maximum flexibility and
>>>>>>>>>>>> customization.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Stay tuned for more details in the next few days...
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 3, 2011, at 11:04 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>  Chiclet refers to a brand of chewing gum. The tabs look like
>>>>>>>>>>>> pieces
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>  of Chiclets chewing gum. They look terrible when they are
>>>>>>>>>>>>> displayed in two rows.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Mon, 1/3/11, Jacques Le Roux<
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  By "chiclet" main navigation style,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you mean the tabs? Then I think we should keep Flat Grey as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it is (because there are advantages
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to have tabs) and create a Flat Grey evolution...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Adrian Crum"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  I was thinking we could use colors from the Apache logo
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  and the BizznessTime theme. I would also like to get rid of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the "chiclet"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  main navigation style, and maybe have that menu in a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  collapsible left column.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Sun, 1/2/11, Sascha Rodekamp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   From: Sascha Rodekamp<sascha.rodekamp.lynx.de@
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> googlemail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  Subject: Re: Discussion: Flat Grey Visual Theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: [hidden email],
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  "Jacques Le Roux"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  Date: Sunday, January 2, 2011, 2:27 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  I really would appreciate to keep the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Flat Gray. But you're right it needs a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> few visual improvements.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me think about this, maybe somethink comes to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  my mind
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  ..... :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2010/12/29 Jacques Le Roux<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  IIRW, it's the only really RTL capable. So a big YES to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> keep
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  of course.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have no ideas though :/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Adrian Crum"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Flat Grey visual theme is getting old.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  The current version of the theme is based on the original
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> look
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and feel of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OFBiz when I first joined the community - back in 2004.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Around
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Spring of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2007 I added some gradient gifs to make the original style
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> little more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interesting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After that, the visual theme was converted to a floating
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> flexible layout
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (to fit any size screen), it was made
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  sight-impaired accessible (font size
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  can be changed), and it added support for bi-directional
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> layout
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  (for rtl
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> languages). Those design decisions were made by the OFBiz
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> community and, in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my opinion, continue to make the Flat Grey theme the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fallback
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme when all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> else fails. It just works.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Despite its advantages, it looks dated. I would like to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> update
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it to make
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it more modern, but maintain its advantages over the other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes. I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking it only needs css and gif file updates. The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> current
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> templates and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> javascripts would be maintained.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If anyone is interested, they are welcome to help out. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> appreciate any suggestions or comments.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me know what you think.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sascha Rodekamp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lynx-Consulting GmbH
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Johanniskirchplatz 6
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> D-33615 Bielefeld
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.lynx.de
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>

[BJ Freeman]

so there will not be any more releases based on the trunk?
I was speaking in the future when 11.04 or 12.04 happen.

it is the disregard of those that actually use this software instead of
just enjoy developing it.

I am a developer second and a business man first.

basically you can add all you want but when you want to remove you must
consider those that have counted on what was provided.

=========================
BJ Freeman
Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation  <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
Specialtymarket.com  <http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist

Chat  Y! messenger: bjfr33man


Bruno Busco sent the following on 1/6/2011 2:33 PM:

> The theme will still be present in the 10.04 releases.
> No production servers should rely on trunk.
>
> -Bruno
>
> 2011/1/6 BJ Freeman<[hidden email]>
>
>> I have one that uses the flat grey as default
>> so if I do an update from the svn the flat grey will and my customization
>> disappear.
>>
>> my sas uses all those in the themes, with my modification.
>> they will be removed. when the svn update is run.
>>
>> those are just a few examples.
>>
>>
>> =========================
>> BJ Freeman
>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation<
>> http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>
>> Chat  Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>
>>
>> Bruno Busco sent the following on 1/6/2011 2:00 PM:
>>
>>   I am sorry, BJ, I do not see your point.
>>>
>>> What could be the issue?
>>> We will have less themes to maintain in the trunk (just Flat Grey,
>>> Tomahawk,
>>> Default and Multiflex).
>>> We will have more people that will be able to maintain additional themes
>>> in
>>> the Themes Gallery.
>>>
>>> Production servers will have each one its selected theme (one of the OOTB,
>>> one of the Themes Gallery or a customized version of them).
>>>
>>> -Bruno
>>>
>>> 2011/1/6 BJ Freeman<[hidden email]>
>>>
>>>   how about those that are using ofbiz for SAS and will have many themes
>>>> for
>>>> their clients.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Bruno Busco sent the following on 1/6/2011 12:51 PM:
>>>>
>>>>   Yes, having more than one theme in the trunk was originally accepted in
>>>>>
>>>>> order to use and show the visual theme selection feature OOTB.
>>>>> Actually Bluelight, Dropping Crumbs and Tomahawk are one the evolution
>>>>> of
>>>>> the other.
>>>>> Each time we decided to create a new theme instead of replacing the one
>>>>> existing just to avoid problems to users.
>>>>>
>>>>> My proposal is to remove Bluelight, Dropping Crumbs and BizznessTime
>>>>> from
>>>>> the trunk and put them in a separate themes repository as suggested by
>>>>> Ryan.
>>>>> Remove the actual version of the Flat Grey from the trunk and put it in
>>>>> the
>>>>> themes repository.
>>>>> Improve the Flat Grey theme in the trunk with the work you guys are
>>>>> doing.
>>>>>
>>>>> In this way we will have in the trunk two themes for the backend (Actual
>>>>> FlatGrey and Tomahawk) and two themes for the ecommerce (Default and
>>>>> Multiflex).
>>>>> In the themes repository there will be Bluelight, Dropping Crumbs,
>>>>> BizznessTime and the actual FlatGrey.
>>>>> It could be a nice start for the theme repository (and gallery) start.
>>>>>
>>>>> -Bruno
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 2011/1/6 Jacques Le Roux<[hidden email]>
>>>>>
>>>>>   Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   inline...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jan 6, 2011, at 11:38 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>   Jacques,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I understand your concerns about support, and your thoughts on the
>>>>>>>>> themes has some valid points.  However, in regards to the
>>>>>>>>> BizznessTime theme, I never really intended for that to be "my"
>>>>>>>>> theme
>>>>>>>>> anyway.  I always viewed it as a community theme as that
>>>>>>>>> was it's original intent and it was truly a collaborative effort to
>>>>>>>>> build it between myself, my colleagues at HotWax, BrainFood,
>>>>>>>>> and other members of the the OFBiz community.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>   Right, sorry for that Ryan. It's only because I know you were one
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>   the
>>>>>>>> "fathers" (the most important I guess) and helped much
>>>>>>>> at the beginning, my apologies.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>   At any rate, my time issues and focus have shifted significantly
>>>>>>>> over
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>   the last few months as I have left HotWax and gone into
>>>>>>>>> independent consulting and freelance development.  I plan on taking
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> much more active role in the community in the months and
>>>>>>>>> years ahead.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>   That's really a good, very good news!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>   As far as theme contributions go, I wonder if maybe it would be a
>>>>>>>> good
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>   idea to have a theme repo outside of the trunk that
>>>>>>>>> individuals could commit to?  The problem with theme maintenance
>>>>>>>>> once
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> new theme has been added to the trunk is that not
>>>>>>>>> everyone has commit privileges to the trunk.  This makes the process
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> maintenance a lot more time consuming for individual
>>>>>>>>> contributors as they have to rely on patches, updates,
>>>>>>>>> collaboration,
>>>>>>>>> etc, rather than just monitoring and maintaining their own
>>>>>>>>> code.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>   This could certainly be discussed as themes are no blocking parts
>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>> long
>>>>>>>> as *at least one works "perfectly"* (another way is to
>>>>>>>> become committer), opinions?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>   I think the way that Magento and Wordpress do it are good examples.
>>>>>>>   With
>>>>>>> Wordpress, there is one "official" theme that is
>>>>>>> included with the install, but there are literally thousands of themes
>>>>>>> that are not maintained by Wordpress that they list on
>>>>>>> there site http://wordpress.org/extend/themes/, and now with the 3.0
>>>>>>> release you can even search for new themes and install them
>>>>>>> automatically from inside your Wordpress install.  Doing it this way
>>>>>>> fosters wider community support by delegating maintenance of
>>>>>>> these themes to individual contributors rather than forcing it on a
>>>>>>> handful of committers and also allows developers to monetize
>>>>>>> there contributions by offering "premium" themes and plugins.  In
>>>>>>> fact,
>>>>>>> there are many individuals and companies in the Wordpress
>>>>>>> community that make their living solely by selling themes and plugins.
>>>>>>>   This furthers solidifies the base of support for the
>>>>>>> project by offering a mid-tier option for someone who wants something
>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>> than OOTB but can't necessarily afford custom
>>>>>>> development.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   This makes good sense indeed. The only difference, I guess, is
>>>>>> unfortunately the width of the audience. This does not mean that we
>>>>>> should
>>>>>> not try...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   Jacques
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>   Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>   801.671.0769
>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Jan 6, 2011, at 8:17 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>   From my perspective, I don't see much chance in the Flat Grey
>>>>>>>>> visual
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>   theme being abandoned. Enough people use it that it will
>>>>>>>>>> get the attention it needs. If Ryan isn't available to fix
>>>>>>>>>> something,
>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>> can fix it. If I'm not available, someone else could
>>>>>>>>>> fix it, etc.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 1/6/2011 6:02 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>   Ryan,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Your screen copies at
>>>>>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-4092
>>>>>>>>>>> looks really great! Looking forward for the implementation...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> My concerns are that maybe you will not have enough time later to
>>>>>>>>>>> keep
>>>>>>>>>>> up with possible bugs or other issues. Look for instance what
>>>>>>>>>>> happened
>>>>>>>>>>> to Bizzness Time https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-2398
>>>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Even if it looks a bit old, we have a theme which works great. Why
>>>>>>>>>>> taking any risks with it? Also I can't see any issues with having
>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>> themes. The more we have the better, I like to have the choice.
>>>>>>>>>>> Some
>>>>>>>>>>> (rare) people prefer to use old things, see games machines or
>>>>>>>>>>> synthesizers for instance (I still love the DX-7 sound
>>>>>>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_DX7
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.vintagesynth.com/yamaha/dx7.php)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> There are any evolved version of Flat Grey yet. So this could be
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> 1st
>>>>>>>>>>> modern one still using the RTL mechanism introduced by Adrian.
>>>>>>>>>>> Just
>>>>>>>>>>> choice the name!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>   IMO I see no reason to have a "Flat Grey Evolution" theme. Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>> right, the Flat Grey theme hasn't had a visual update in
>>>>>>>>>>>> years and it looks very dated. It needs some love. Let's not add
>>>>>>>>>>>> another improved version, let's just improve the version we
>>>>>>>>>>>> have now. I think that is more efficient and more beneficial in
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> long run.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> As far as the tabs go, we can still keep a horizontal, tab-like
>>>>>>>>>>>> navigation without actually having the tabs look like tabs.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Because, the absolutely do look terrible displayed in two rows.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Adrian, I would be happy to collaborate with you on this. I
>>>>>>>>>>>> think I have some ideas that could help. Email me directly if you
>>>>>>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>>>>>>> to hash out some ideas outside of this mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> discussion.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Consequently, as far as new admin themes go, I guess I can use
>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>> an opportunity as well to drop a teaser about a new theme
>>>>>>>>>>>> I have been working on already for some time now that I honestly
>>>>>>>>>>>> hope
>>>>>>>>>>>> will become the go-to theme for scalability and
>>>>>>>>>>>> customization, and that will eventually replace the Flat Grey
>>>>>>>>>>>> theme
>>>>>>>>>>>> altogether. The new theme scales down very well to 800x600
>>>>>>>>>>>> and has minimal styling for maximum flexibility and
>>>>>>>>>>>> customization.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Stay tuned for more details in the next few days...
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 3, 2011, at 11:04 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>   Chiclet refers to a brand of chewing gum. The tabs look like
>>>>>>>>>>>> pieces
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>   of Chiclets chewing gum. They look terrible when they are
>>>>>>>>>>>>> displayed in two rows.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Mon, 1/3/11, Jacques Le Roux<
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>   By "chiclet" main navigation style,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you mean the tabs? Then I think we should keep Flat Grey as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it is (because there are advantages
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to have tabs) and create a Flat Grey evolution...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Adrian Crum"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   I was thinking we could use colors from the Apache logo
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   and the BizznessTime theme. I would also like to get rid of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the "chiclet"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   main navigation style, and maybe have that menu in a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   collapsible left column.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Sun, 1/2/11, Sascha Rodekamp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    From: Sascha Rodekamp<[hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   Subject: Re: Discussion: Flat Grey Visual Theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: [hidden email],
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   "Jacques Le Roux"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   Date: Sunday, January 2, 2011, 2:27 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   I really would appreciate to keep the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Flat Gray. But you're right it needs a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> few visual improvements.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me think about this, maybe somethink comes to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   my mind
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   ..... :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2010/12/29 Jacques Le Roux<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   IIRW, it's the only really RTL capable. So a big YES to keep
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   of course.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have no ideas though :/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Adrian Crum"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Flat Grey visual theme is getting old.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   The current version of the theme is based on the original
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> look
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and feel of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OFBiz when I first joined the community - back in 2004.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Around
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Spring of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2007 I added some gradient gifs to make the original style
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> little more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interesting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After that, the visual theme was converted to a floating
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> flexible layout
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (to fit any size screen), it was made
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   sight-impaired accessible (font size
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   can be changed), and it added support for bi-directional
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> layout
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   (for rtl
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> languages). Those design decisions were made by the OFBiz
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> community and, in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my opinion, continue to make the Flat Grey theme the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fallback
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme when all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> else fails. It just works.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Despite its advantages, it looks dated. I would like to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> update
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it to make
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it more modern, but maintain its advantages over the other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes. I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking it only needs css and gif file updates. The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> current
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> templates and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> javascripts would be maintained.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If anyone is interested, they are welcome to help out. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> appreciate any suggestions or comments.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me know what you think.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sascha Rodekamp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lynx-Consulting GmbH
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Johanniskirchplatz 6
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> D-33615 Bielefeld
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.lynx.de
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>

[Ryan Foster-3]

Sorry, my last response sounded a bit arrogant after I re-read it.  My apologies to anyone who might actually be doing this.  I just personally feel like that is not a good idea.  Way too many unknown variables on a day to day basis.
 
Ryan L. Foster
801.671.0769
[hidden email]

On Jan 6, 2011, at 3:37 PM, Ryan Foster wrote:

> Agreed.  I don't know anyone that updates a production server directly from a development trunk, especially not a community driven open-source development trunk.
>
> Ryan L. Foster
> 801.671.0769
> [hidden email]
>
> On Jan 6, 2011, at 3:33 PM, Bruno Busco wrote:
>
>> The theme will still be present in the 10.04 releases.
>> No production servers should rely on trunk.
>>
>> -Bruno
>>
>> 2011/1/6 BJ Freeman <[hidden email]>
>>
>>> I have one that uses the flat grey as default
>>> so if I do an update from the svn the flat grey will and my customization
>>> disappear.
>>>
>>> my sas uses all those in the themes, with my modification.
>>> they will be removed. when the svn update is run.
>>>
>>> those are just a few examples.
>>>
>>>
>>> =========================
>>> BJ Freeman
>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation  <
>>> http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>>> Specialtymarket.com  <http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>>
>>> Chat  Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>>
>>>
>>> Bruno Busco sent the following on 1/6/2011 2:00 PM:
>>>
>>> I am sorry, BJ, I do not see your point.
>>>>
>>>> What could be the issue?
>>>> We will have less themes to maintain in the trunk (just Flat Grey,
>>>> Tomahawk,
>>>> Default and Multiflex).
>>>> We will have more people that will be able to maintain additional themes
>>>> in
>>>> the Themes Gallery.
>>>>
>>>> Production servers will have each one its selected theme (one of the OOTB,
>>>> one of the Themes Gallery or a customized version of them).
>>>>
>>>> -Bruno
>>>>
>>>> 2011/1/6 BJ Freeman<[hidden email]>
>>>>
>>>> how about those that are using ofbiz for SAS and will have many themes
>>>>> for
>>>>> their clients.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Bruno Busco sent the following on 1/6/2011 12:51 PM:
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, having more than one theme in the trunk was originally accepted in
>>>>>>
>>>>>> order to use and show the visual theme selection feature OOTB.
>>>>>> Actually Bluelight, Dropping Crumbs and Tomahawk are one the evolution
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> the other.
>>>>>> Each time we decided to create a new theme instead of replacing the one
>>>>>> existing just to avoid problems to users.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My proposal is to remove Bluelight, Dropping Crumbs and BizznessTime
>>>>>> from
>>>>>> the trunk and put them in a separate themes repository as suggested by
>>>>>> Ryan.
>>>>>> Remove the actual version of the Flat Grey from the trunk and put it in
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> themes repository.
>>>>>> Improve the Flat Grey theme in the trunk with the work you guys are
>>>>>> doing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In this way we will have in the trunk two themes for the backend (Actual
>>>>>> FlatGrey and Tomahawk) and two themes for the ecommerce (Default and
>>>>>> Multiflex).
>>>>>> In the themes repository there will be Bluelight, Dropping Crumbs,
>>>>>> BizznessTime and the actual FlatGrey.
>>>>>> It could be a nice start for the theme repository (and gallery) start.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Bruno
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2011/1/6 Jacques Le Roux<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> inline...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Jan 6, 2011, at 11:38 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Jacques,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I understand your concerns about support, and your thoughts on the
>>>>>>>>>> themes has some valid points.  However, in regards to the
>>>>>>>>>> BizznessTime theme, I never really intended for that to be "my"
>>>>>>>>>> theme
>>>>>>>>>> anyway.  I always viewed it as a community theme as that
>>>>>>>>>> was it's original intent and it was truly a collaborative effort to
>>>>>>>>>> build it between myself, my colleagues at HotWax, BrainFood,
>>>>>>>>>> and other members of the the OFBiz community.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Right, sorry for that Ryan. It's only because I know you were one
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> "fathers" (the most important I guess) and helped much
>>>>>>>>> at the beginning, my apologies.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> At any rate, my time issues and focus have shifted significantly
>>>>>>>>> over
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> the last few months as I have left HotWax and gone into
>>>>>>>>>> independent consulting and freelance development.  I plan on taking
>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>> much more active role in the community in the months and
>>>>>>>>>> years ahead.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> That's really a good, very good news!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> As far as theme contributions go, I wonder if maybe it would be a
>>>>>>>>> good
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> idea to have a theme repo outside of the trunk that
>>>>>>>>>> individuals could commit to?  The problem with theme maintenance
>>>>>>>>>> once
>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>> new theme has been added to the trunk is that not
>>>>>>>>>> everyone has commit privileges to the trunk.  This makes the process
>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>> maintenance a lot more time consuming for individual
>>>>>>>>>> contributors as they have to rely on patches, updates,
>>>>>>>>>> collaboration,
>>>>>>>>>> etc, rather than just monitoring and maintaining their own
>>>>>>>>>> code.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This could certainly be discussed as themes are no blocking parts
>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>> long
>>>>>>>>> as *at least one works "perfectly"* (another way is to
>>>>>>>>> become committer), opinions?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I think the way that Magento and Wordpress do it are good examples.
>>>>>>>> With
>>>>>>>> Wordpress, there is one "official" theme that is
>>>>>>>> included with the install, but there are literally thousands of themes
>>>>>>>> that are not maintained by Wordpress that they list on
>>>>>>>> there site http://wordpress.org/extend/themes/, and now with the 3.0
>>>>>>>> release you can even search for new themes and install them
>>>>>>>> automatically from inside your Wordpress install.  Doing it this way
>>>>>>>> fosters wider community support by delegating maintenance of
>>>>>>>> these themes to individual contributors rather than forcing it on a
>>>>>>>> handful of committers and also allows developers to monetize
>>>>>>>> there contributions by offering "premium" themes and plugins.  In
>>>>>>>> fact,
>>>>>>>> there are many individuals and companies in the Wordpress
>>>>>>>> community that make their living solely by selling themes and plugins.
>>>>>>>> This furthers solidifies the base of support for the
>>>>>>>> project by offering a mid-tier option for someone who wants something
>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>> than OOTB but can't necessarily afford custom
>>>>>>>> development.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This makes good sense indeed. The only difference, I guess, is
>>>>>>> unfortunately the width of the audience. This does not mean that we
>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>> not try...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 6, 2011, at 8:17 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> From my perspective, I don't see much chance in the Flat Grey
>>>>>>>>>> visual
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> theme being abandoned. Enough people use it that it will
>>>>>>>>>>> get the attention it needs. If Ryan isn't available to fix
>>>>>>>>>>> something,
>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>> can fix it. If I'm not available, someone else could
>>>>>>>>>>> fix it, etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/6/2011 6:02 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Your screen copies at
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-4092
>>>>>>>>>>>> looks really great! Looking forward for the implementation...
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> My concerns are that maybe you will not have enough time later to
>>>>>>>>>>>> keep
>>>>>>>>>>>> up with possible bugs or other issues. Look for instance what
>>>>>>>>>>>> happened
>>>>>>>>>>>> to Bizzness Time https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-2398
>>>>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Even if it looks a bit old, we have a theme which works great. Why
>>>>>>>>>>>> taking any risks with it? Also I can't see any issues with having
>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>> themes. The more we have the better, I like to have the choice.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Some
>>>>>>>>>>>> (rare) people prefer to use old things, see games machines or
>>>>>>>>>>>> synthesizers for instance (I still love the DX-7 sound
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_DX7
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.vintagesynth.com/yamaha/dx7.php)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> There are any evolved version of Flat Grey yet. So this could be
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> 1st
>>>>>>>>>>>> modern one still using the RTL mechanism introduced by Adrian.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Just
>>>>>>>>>>>> choice the name!
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> IMO I see no reason to have a "Flat Grey Evolution" theme. Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> right, the Flat Grey theme hasn't had a visual update in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> years and it looks very dated. It needs some love. Let's not add
>>>>>>>>>>>>> another improved version, let's just improve the version we
>>>>>>>>>>>>> have now. I think that is more efficient and more beneficial in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> long run.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> As far as the tabs go, we can still keep a horizontal, tab-like
>>>>>>>>>>>>> navigation without actually having the tabs look like tabs.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because, the absolutely do look terrible displayed in two rows.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Adrian, I would be happy to collaborate with you on this. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> think I have some ideas that could help. Email me directly if you
>>>>>>>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to hash out some ideas outside of this mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> discussion.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Consequently, as far as new admin themes go, I guess I can use
>>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>> an opportunity as well to drop a teaser about a new theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have been working on already for some time now that I honestly
>>>>>>>>>>>>> hope
>>>>>>>>>>>>> will become the go-to theme for scalability and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> customization, and that will eventually replace the Flat Grey
>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>> altogether. The new theme scales down very well to 800x600
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and has minimal styling for maximum flexibility and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> customization.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stay tuned for more details in the next few days...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 3, 2011, at 11:04 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chiclet refers to a brand of chewing gum. The tabs look like
>>>>>>>>>>>>> pieces
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of Chiclets chewing gum. They look terrible when they are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> displayed in two rows.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Mon, 1/3/11, Jacques Le Roux<
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> By "chiclet" main navigation style,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you mean the tabs? Then I think we should keep Flat Grey as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it is (because there are advantages
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to have tabs) and create a Flat Grey evolution...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Adrian Crum"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was thinking we could use colors from the Apache logo
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the BizznessTime theme. I would also like to get rid of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the "chiclet"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> main navigation style, and maybe have that menu in a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> collapsible left column.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Sun, 1/2/11, Sascha Rodekamp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Sascha Rodekamp<[hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Discussion: Flat Grey Visual Theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: [hidden email],
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Jacques Le Roux"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Sunday, January 2, 2011, 2:27 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I really would appreciate to keep the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Flat Gray. But you're right it needs a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> few visual improvements.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me think about this, maybe somethink comes to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my mind
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ..... :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2010/12/29 Jacques Le Roux<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> IIRW, it's the only really RTL capable. So a big YES to keep
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have no ideas though :/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Adrian Crum"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Flat Grey visual theme is getting old.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The current version of the theme is based on the original
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> look
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and feel of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OFBiz when I first joined the community - back in 2004.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Around
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Spring of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2007 I added some gradient gifs to make the original style
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> little more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interesting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After that, the visual theme was converted to a floating
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> flexible layout
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (to fit any size screen), it was made
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sight-impaired accessible (font size
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can be changed), and it added support for bi-directional
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> layout
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (for rtl
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> languages). Those design decisions were made by the OFBiz
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> community and, in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my opinion, continue to make the Flat Grey theme the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fallback
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme when all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> else fails. It just works.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Despite its advantages, it looks dated. I would like to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> update
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it to make
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it more modern, but maintain its advantages over the other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes. I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking it only needs css and gif file updates. The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> current
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> templates and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> javascripts would be maintained.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If anyone is interested, they are welcome to help out. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> appreciate any suggestions or comments.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me know what you think.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sascha Rodekamp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lynx-Consulting GmbH
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Johanniskirchplatz 6
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> D-33615 Bielefeld
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.lynx.de
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>

[Ryan Foster-3]

I completely agree with you BJ.  Considerations definitely have to be made when things are removed, especially if they are tied to the framework.  What is being discussed is whether to remove themes, which can be hot-deployed from being maintained in the trunk.  For future releases, all you would need to do is manually add your themes, custom or otherwise, to your production instance.  If they are no longer tied in svn to the trunk, they would not be effected by any updates or releases.

Ryan L. Foster
801.671.0769
[hidden email]

On Jan 6, 2011, at 3:40 PM, BJ Freeman wrote:

> so there will not be any more releases based on the trunk?
> I was speaking in the future when 11.04 or 12.04 happen.
>
> it is the disregard of those that actually use this software instead of just enjoy developing it.
>
> I am a developer second and a business man first.
>
> basically you can add all you want but when you want to remove you must consider those that have counted on what was provided.
>
> =========================
> BJ Freeman
> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation  <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
> Specialtymarket.com  <http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>
> Chat  Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>
>
> Bruno Busco sent the following on 1/6/2011 2:33 PM:
>> The theme will still be present in the 10.04 releases.
>> No production servers should rely on trunk.
>>
>> -Bruno
>>
>> 2011/1/6 BJ Freeman<[hidden email]>
>>
>>> I have one that uses the flat grey as default
>>> so if I do an update from the svn the flat grey will and my customization
>>> disappear.
>>>
>>> my sas uses all those in the themes, with my modification.
>>> they will be removed. when the svn update is run.
>>>
>>> those are just a few examples.
>>>
>>>
>>> =========================
>>> BJ Freeman
>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation<
>>> http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>>
>>> Chat  Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>>
>>>
>>> Bruno Busco sent the following on 1/6/2011 2:00 PM:
>>>
>>>  I am sorry, BJ, I do not see your point.
>>>>
>>>> What could be the issue?
>>>> We will have less themes to maintain in the trunk (just Flat Grey,
>>>> Tomahawk,
>>>> Default and Multiflex).
>>>> We will have more people that will be able to maintain additional themes
>>>> in
>>>> the Themes Gallery.
>>>>
>>>> Production servers will have each one its selected theme (one of the OOTB,
>>>> one of the Themes Gallery or a customized version of them).
>>>>
>>>> -Bruno
>>>>
>>>> 2011/1/6 BJ Freeman<[hidden email]>
>>>>
>>>>  how about those that are using ofbiz for SAS and will have many themes
>>>>> for
>>>>> their clients.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Bruno Busco sent the following on 1/6/2011 12:51 PM:
>>>>>
>>>>>  Yes, having more than one theme in the trunk was originally accepted in
>>>>>>
>>>>>> order to use and show the visual theme selection feature OOTB.
>>>>>> Actually Bluelight, Dropping Crumbs and Tomahawk are one the evolution
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> the other.
>>>>>> Each time we decided to create a new theme instead of replacing the one
>>>>>> existing just to avoid problems to users.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My proposal is to remove Bluelight, Dropping Crumbs and BizznessTime
>>>>>> from
>>>>>> the trunk and put them in a separate themes repository as suggested by
>>>>>> Ryan.
>>>>>> Remove the actual version of the Flat Grey from the trunk and put it in
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> themes repository.
>>>>>> Improve the Flat Grey theme in the trunk with the work you guys are
>>>>>> doing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In this way we will have in the trunk two themes for the backend (Actual
>>>>>> FlatGrey and Tomahawk) and two themes for the ecommerce (Default and
>>>>>> Multiflex).
>>>>>> In the themes repository there will be Bluelight, Dropping Crumbs,
>>>>>> BizznessTime and the actual FlatGrey.
>>>>>> It could be a nice start for the theme repository (and gallery) start.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Bruno
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2011/1/6 Jacques Le Roux<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  inline...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Jan 6, 2011, at 11:38 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  Jacques,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I understand your concerns about support, and your thoughts on the
>>>>>>>>>> themes has some valid points.  However, in regards to the
>>>>>>>>>> BizznessTime theme, I never really intended for that to be "my"
>>>>>>>>>> theme
>>>>>>>>>> anyway.  I always viewed it as a community theme as that
>>>>>>>>>> was it's original intent and it was truly a collaborative effort to
>>>>>>>>>> build it between myself, my colleagues at HotWax, BrainFood,
>>>>>>>>>> and other members of the the OFBiz community.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>  Right, sorry for that Ryan. It's only because I know you were one
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>  the
>>>>>>>>> "fathers" (the most important I guess) and helped much
>>>>>>>>> at the beginning, my apologies.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  At any rate, my time issues and focus have shifted significantly
>>>>>>>>> over
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  the last few months as I have left HotWax and gone into
>>>>>>>>>> independent consulting and freelance development.  I plan on taking
>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>> much more active role in the community in the months and
>>>>>>>>>> years ahead.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>  That's really a good, very good news!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  As far as theme contributions go, I wonder if maybe it would be a
>>>>>>>>> good
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  idea to have a theme repo outside of the trunk that
>>>>>>>>>> individuals could commit to?  The problem with theme maintenance
>>>>>>>>>> once
>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>> new theme has been added to the trunk is that not
>>>>>>>>>> everyone has commit privileges to the trunk.  This makes the process
>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>> maintenance a lot more time consuming for individual
>>>>>>>>>> contributors as they have to rely on patches, updates,
>>>>>>>>>> collaboration,
>>>>>>>>>> etc, rather than just monitoring and maintaining their own
>>>>>>>>>> code.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>  This could certainly be discussed as themes are no blocking parts
>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>> long
>>>>>>>>> as *at least one works "perfectly"* (another way is to
>>>>>>>>> become committer), opinions?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  I think the way that Magento and Wordpress do it are good examples.
>>>>>>>>  With
>>>>>>>> Wordpress, there is one "official" theme that is
>>>>>>>> included with the install, but there are literally thousands of themes
>>>>>>>> that are not maintained by Wordpress that they list on
>>>>>>>> there site http://wordpress.org/extend/themes/, and now with the 3.0
>>>>>>>> release you can even search for new themes and install them
>>>>>>>> automatically from inside your Wordpress install.  Doing it this way
>>>>>>>> fosters wider community support by delegating maintenance of
>>>>>>>> these themes to individual contributors rather than forcing it on a
>>>>>>>> handful of committers and also allows developers to monetize
>>>>>>>> there contributions by offering "premium" themes and plugins.  In
>>>>>>>> fact,
>>>>>>>> there are many individuals and companies in the Wordpress
>>>>>>>> community that make their living solely by selling themes and plugins.
>>>>>>>>  This furthers solidifies the base of support for the
>>>>>>>> project by offering a mid-tier option for someone who wants something
>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>> than OOTB but can't necessarily afford custom
>>>>>>>> development.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  This makes good sense indeed. The only difference, I guess, is
>>>>>>> unfortunately the width of the audience. This does not mean that we
>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>> not try...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  Jacques
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  801.671.0769
>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 6, 2011, at 8:17 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>  From my perspective, I don't see much chance in the Flat Grey
>>>>>>>>>> visual
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>  theme being abandoned. Enough people use it that it will
>>>>>>>>>>> get the attention it needs. If Ryan isn't available to fix
>>>>>>>>>>> something,
>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>> can fix it. If I'm not available, someone else could
>>>>>>>>>>> fix it, etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/6/2011 6:02 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>  Ryan,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Your screen copies at
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-4092
>>>>>>>>>>>> looks really great! Looking forward for the implementation...
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> My concerns are that maybe you will not have enough time later to
>>>>>>>>>>>> keep
>>>>>>>>>>>> up with possible bugs or other issues. Look for instance what
>>>>>>>>>>>> happened
>>>>>>>>>>>> to Bizzness Time https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-2398
>>>>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Even if it looks a bit old, we have a theme which works great. Why
>>>>>>>>>>>> taking any risks with it? Also I can't see any issues with having
>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>> themes. The more we have the better, I like to have the choice.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Some
>>>>>>>>>>>> (rare) people prefer to use old things, see games machines or
>>>>>>>>>>>> synthesizers for instance (I still love the DX-7 sound
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_DX7
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.vintagesynth.com/yamaha/dx7.php)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> There are any evolved version of Flat Grey yet. So this could be
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> 1st
>>>>>>>>>>>> modern one still using the RTL mechanism introduced by Adrian.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Just
>>>>>>>>>>>> choice the name!
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>  IMO I see no reason to have a "Flat Grey Evolution" theme. Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> right, the Flat Grey theme hasn't had a visual update in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> years and it looks very dated. It needs some love. Let's not add
>>>>>>>>>>>>> another improved version, let's just improve the version we
>>>>>>>>>>>>> have now. I think that is more efficient and more beneficial in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> long run.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> As far as the tabs go, we can still keep a horizontal, tab-like
>>>>>>>>>>>>> navigation without actually having the tabs look like tabs.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because, the absolutely do look terrible displayed in two rows.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Adrian, I would be happy to collaborate with you on this. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> think I have some ideas that could help. Email me directly if you
>>>>>>>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to hash out some ideas outside of this mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> discussion.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Consequently, as far as new admin themes go, I guess I can use
>>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>> an opportunity as well to drop a teaser about a new theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have been working on already for some time now that I honestly
>>>>>>>>>>>>> hope
>>>>>>>>>>>>> will become the go-to theme for scalability and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> customization, and that will eventually replace the Flat Grey
>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>> altogether. The new theme scales down very well to 800x600
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and has minimal styling for maximum flexibility and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> customization.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stay tuned for more details in the next few days...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 3, 2011, at 11:04 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  Chiclet refers to a brand of chewing gum. The tabs look like
>>>>>>>>>>>>> pieces
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  of Chiclets chewing gum. They look terrible when they are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> displayed in two rows.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Mon, 1/3/11, Jacques Le Roux<
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  By "chiclet" main navigation style,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you mean the tabs? Then I think we should keep Flat Grey as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it is (because there are advantages
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to have tabs) and create a Flat Grey evolution...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Adrian Crum"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  I was thinking we could use colors from the Apache logo
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  and the BizznessTime theme. I would also like to get rid of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the "chiclet"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  main navigation style, and maybe have that menu in a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  collapsible left column.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Sun, 1/2/11, Sascha Rodekamp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   From: Sascha Rodekamp<[hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  Subject: Re: Discussion: Flat Grey Visual Theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: [hidden email],
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  "Jacques Le Roux"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  Date: Sunday, January 2, 2011, 2:27 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  I really would appreciate to keep the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Flat Gray. But you're right it needs a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> few visual improvements.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me think about this, maybe somethink comes to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  my mind
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  ..... :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2010/12/29 Jacques Le Roux<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  IIRW, it's the only really RTL capable. So a big YES to keep
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  of course.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have no ideas though :/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Adrian Crum"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Flat Grey visual theme is getting old.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  The current version of the theme is based on the original
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> look
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and feel of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OFBiz when I first joined the community - back in 2004.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Around
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Spring of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2007 I added some gradient gifs to make the original style
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> little more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interesting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After that, the visual theme was converted to a floating
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> flexible layout
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (to fit any size screen), it was made
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  sight-impaired accessible (font size
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  can be changed), and it added support for bi-directional
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> layout
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  (for rtl
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> languages). Those design decisions were made by the OFBiz
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> community and, in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my opinion, continue to make the Flat Grey theme the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fallback
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme when all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> else fails. It just works.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Despite its advantages, it looks dated. I would like to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> update
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it to make
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it more modern, but maintain its advantages over the other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes. I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking it only needs css and gif file updates. The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> current
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> templates and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> javascripts would be maintained.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If anyone is interested, they are welcome to help out. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> appreciate any suggestions or comments.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me know what you think.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sascha Rodekamp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lynx-Consulting GmbH
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Johanniskirchplatz 6
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> D-33615 Bielefeld
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.lynx.de
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>

[BJ Freeman]

so you will be glad to fund the effort to do that.
Time is money. and anything the effects the ROI needs to be considered,
if the software is to be widely accepted.

=========================
BJ Freeman
Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation  <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
Specialtymarket.com  <http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist

Chat  Y! messenger: bjfr33man


Ryan Foster sent the following on 1/6/2011 2:51 PM:

> I completely agree with you BJ.  Considerations definitely have to be made when things are removed, especially if they are tied to the framework.  What is being discussed is whether to remove themes, which can be hot-deployed from being maintained in the trunk.  For future releases, all you would need to do is manually add your themes, custom or otherwise, to your production instance.  If they are no longer tied in svn to the trunk, they would not be effected by any updates or releases.
>
> Ryan L. Foster
> 801.671.0769
> [hidden email]
>
> On Jan 6, 2011, at 3:40 PM, BJ Freeman wrote:
>
>> so there will not be any more releases based on the trunk?
>> I was speaking in the future when 11.04 or 12.04 happen.
>>
>> it is the disregard of those that actually use this software instead of just enjoy developing it.
>>
>> I am a developer second and a business man first.
>>
>> basically you can add all you want but when you want to remove you must consider those that have counted on what was provided.
>>
>> =========================
>> BJ Freeman
>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation<http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>
>> Chat  Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>
>>
>> Bruno Busco sent the following on 1/6/2011 2:33 PM:
>>> The theme will still be present in the 10.04 releases.
>>> No production servers should rely on trunk.
>>>
>>> -Bruno
>>>
>>> 2011/1/6 BJ Freeman<[hidden email]>
>>>
>>>> I have one that uses the flat grey as default
>>>> so if I do an update from the svn the flat grey will and my customization
>>>> disappear.
>>>>
>>>> my sas uses all those in the themes, with my modification.
>>>> they will be removed. when the svn update is run.
>>>>
>>>> those are just a few examples.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> =========================
>>>> BJ Freeman
>>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation<
>>>> http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>>>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>>>
>>>> Chat  Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Bruno Busco sent the following on 1/6/2011 2:00 PM:
>>>>
>>>>   I am sorry, BJ, I do not see your point.
>>>>>
>>>>> What could be the issue?
>>>>> We will have less themes to maintain in the trunk (just Flat Grey,
>>>>> Tomahawk,
>>>>> Default and Multiflex).
>>>>> We will have more people that will be able to maintain additional themes
>>>>> in
>>>>> the Themes Gallery.
>>>>>
>>>>> Production servers will have each one its selected theme (one of the OOTB,
>>>>> one of the Themes Gallery or a customized version of them).
>>>>>
>>>>> -Bruno
>>>>>
>>>>> 2011/1/6 BJ Freeman<[hidden email]>
>>>>>
>>>>>   how about those that are using ofbiz for SAS and will have many themes
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> their clients.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bruno Busco sent the following on 1/6/2011 12:51 PM:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   Yes, having more than one theme in the trunk was originally accepted in
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> order to use and show the visual theme selection feature OOTB.
>>>>>>> Actually Bluelight, Dropping Crumbs and Tomahawk are one the evolution
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> the other.
>>>>>>> Each time we decided to create a new theme instead of replacing the one
>>>>>>> existing just to avoid problems to users.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My proposal is to remove Bluelight, Dropping Crumbs and BizznessTime
>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>> the trunk and put them in a separate themes repository as suggested by
>>>>>>> Ryan.
>>>>>>> Remove the actual version of the Flat Grey from the trunk and put it in
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> themes repository.
>>>>>>> Improve the Flat Grey theme in the trunk with the work you guys are
>>>>>>> doing.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In this way we will have in the trunk two themes for the backend (Actual
>>>>>>> FlatGrey and Tomahawk) and two themes for the ecommerce (Default and
>>>>>>> Multiflex).
>>>>>>> In the themes repository there will be Bluelight, Dropping Crumbs,
>>>>>>> BizznessTime and the actual FlatGrey.
>>>>>>> It could be a nice start for the theme repository (and gallery) start.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Bruno
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2011/1/6 Jacques Le Roux<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>   inline...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Jan 6, 2011, at 11:38 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>   Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>   Jacques,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I understand your concerns about support, and your thoughts on the
>>>>>>>>>>> themes has some valid points.  However, in regards to the
>>>>>>>>>>> BizznessTime theme, I never really intended for that to be "my"
>>>>>>>>>>> theme
>>>>>>>>>>> anyway.  I always viewed it as a community theme as that
>>>>>>>>>>> was it's original intent and it was truly a collaborative effort to
>>>>>>>>>>> build it between myself, my colleagues at HotWax, BrainFood,
>>>>>>>>>>> and other members of the the OFBiz community.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>   Right, sorry for that Ryan. It's only because I know you were one
>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>   the
>>>>>>>>>> "fathers" (the most important I guess) and helped much
>>>>>>>>>> at the beginning, my apologies.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>   At any rate, my time issues and focus have shifted significantly
>>>>>>>>>> over
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>   the last few months as I have left HotWax and gone into
>>>>>>>>>>> independent consulting and freelance development.  I plan on taking
>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>> much more active role in the community in the months and
>>>>>>>>>>> years ahead.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>   That's really a good, very good news!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>   As far as theme contributions go, I wonder if maybe it would be a
>>>>>>>>>> good
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>   idea to have a theme repo outside of the trunk that
>>>>>>>>>>> individuals could commit to?  The problem with theme maintenance
>>>>>>>>>>> once
>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>> new theme has been added to the trunk is that not
>>>>>>>>>>> everyone has commit privileges to the trunk.  This makes the process
>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>> maintenance a lot more time consuming for individual
>>>>>>>>>>> contributors as they have to rely on patches, updates,
>>>>>>>>>>> collaboration,
>>>>>>>>>>> etc, rather than just monitoring and maintaining their own
>>>>>>>>>>> code.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>   This could certainly be discussed as themes are no blocking parts
>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>> long
>>>>>>>>>> as *at least one works "perfectly"* (another way is to
>>>>>>>>>> become committer), opinions?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>   I think the way that Magento and Wordpress do it are good examples.
>>>>>>>>>   With
>>>>>>>>> Wordpress, there is one "official" theme that is
>>>>>>>>> included with the install, but there are literally thousands of themes
>>>>>>>>> that are not maintained by Wordpress that they list on
>>>>>>>>> there site http://wordpress.org/extend/themes/, and now with the 3.0
>>>>>>>>> release you can even search for new themes and install them
>>>>>>>>> automatically from inside your Wordpress install.  Doing it this way
>>>>>>>>> fosters wider community support by delegating maintenance of
>>>>>>>>> these themes to individual contributors rather than forcing it on a
>>>>>>>>> handful of committers and also allows developers to monetize
>>>>>>>>> there contributions by offering "premium" themes and plugins.  In
>>>>>>>>> fact,
>>>>>>>>> there are many individuals and companies in the Wordpress
>>>>>>>>> community that make their living solely by selling themes and plugins.
>>>>>>>>>   This furthers solidifies the base of support for the
>>>>>>>>> project by offering a mid-tier option for someone who wants something
>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>> than OOTB but can't necessarily afford custom
>>>>>>>>> development.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>   This makes good sense indeed. The only difference, I guess, is
>>>>>>>> unfortunately the width of the audience. This does not mean that we
>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>> not try...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>   Jacques
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>   Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>   801.671.0769
>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 6, 2011, at 8:17 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>   From my perspective, I don't see much chance in the Flat Grey
>>>>>>>>>>> visual
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>   theme being abandoned. Enough people use it that it will
>>>>>>>>>>>> get the attention it needs. If Ryan isn't available to fix
>>>>>>>>>>>> something,
>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>> can fix it. If I'm not available, someone else could
>>>>>>>>>>>> fix it, etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/6/2011 6:02 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>   Ryan,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your screen copies at
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-4092
>>>>>>>>>>>>> looks really great! Looking forward for the implementation...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> My concerns are that maybe you will not have enough time later to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> keep
>>>>>>>>>>>>> up with possible bugs or other issues. Look for instance what
>>>>>>>>>>>>> happened
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to Bizzness Time https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-2398
>>>>>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Even if it looks a bit old, we have a theme which works great. Why
>>>>>>>>>>>>> taking any risks with it? Also I can't see any issues with having
>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes. The more we have the better, I like to have the choice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Some
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (rare) people prefer to use old things, see games machines or
>>>>>>>>>>>>> synthesizers for instance (I still love the DX-7 sound
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_DX7
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.vintagesynth.com/yamaha/dx7.php)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are any evolved version of Flat Grey yet. So this could be
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1st
>>>>>>>>>>>>> modern one still using the RTL mechanism introduced by Adrian.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just
>>>>>>>>>>>>> choice the name!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>   IMO I see no reason to have a "Flat Grey Evolution" theme. Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> right, the Flat Grey theme hasn't had a visual update in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> years and it looks very dated. It needs some love. Let's not add
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> another improved version, let's just improve the version we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have now. I think that is more efficient and more beneficial in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> long run.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As far as the tabs go, we can still keep a horizontal, tab-like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> navigation without actually having the tabs look like tabs.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because, the absolutely do look terrible displayed in two rows.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Adrian, I would be happy to collaborate with you on this. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think I have some ideas that could help. Email me directly if you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to hash out some ideas outside of this mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> discussion.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Consequently, as far as new admin themes go, I guess I can use
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an opportunity as well to drop a teaser about a new theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have been working on already for some time now that I honestly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hope
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will become the go-to theme for scalability and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> customization, and that will eventually replace the Flat Grey
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> altogether. The new theme scales down very well to 800x600
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and has minimal styling for maximum flexibility and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> customization.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stay tuned for more details in the next few days...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 3, 2011, at 11:04 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   Chiclet refers to a brand of chewing gum. The tabs look like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pieces
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   of Chiclets chewing gum. They look terrible when they are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> displayed in two rows.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Mon, 1/3/11, Jacques Le Roux<
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   By "chiclet" main navigation style,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you mean the tabs? Then I think we should keep Flat Grey as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it is (because there are advantages
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to have tabs) and create a Flat Grey evolution...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Adrian Crum"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   I was thinking we could use colors from the Apache logo
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   and the BizznessTime theme. I would also like to get rid of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the "chiclet"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   main navigation style, and maybe have that menu in a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   collapsible left column.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Sun, 1/2/11, Sascha Rodekamp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    From: Sascha Rodekamp<[hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   Subject: Re: Discussion: Flat Grey Visual Theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: [hidden email],
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   "Jacques Le Roux"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   Date: Sunday, January 2, 2011, 2:27 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   I really would appreciate to keep the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Flat Gray. But you're right it needs a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> few visual improvements.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me think about this, maybe somethink comes to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   my mind
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   ..... :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2010/12/29 Jacques Le Roux<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   IIRW, it's the only really RTL capable. So a big YES to keep
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   of course.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have no ideas though :/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Adrian Crum"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Flat Grey visual theme is getting old.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   The current version of the theme is based on the original
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> look
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and feel of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OFBiz when I first joined the community - back in 2004.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Around
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Spring of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2007 I added some gradient gifs to make the original style
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> little more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interesting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After that, the visual theme was converted to a floating
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> flexible layout
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (to fit any size screen), it was made
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   sight-impaired accessible (font size
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   can be changed), and it added support for bi-directional
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> layout
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   (for rtl
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> languages). Those design decisions were made by the OFBiz
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> community and, in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my opinion, continue to make the Flat Grey theme the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fallback
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme when all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> else fails. It just works.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Despite its advantages, it looks dated. I would like to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> update
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it to make
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it more modern, but maintain its advantages over the other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes. I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking it only needs css and gif file updates. The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> current
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> templates and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> javascripts would be maintained.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If anyone is interested, they are welcome to help out. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> appreciate any suggestions or comments.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me know what you think.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sascha Rodekamp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lynx-Consulting GmbH
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Johanniskirchplatz 6
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> D-33615 Bielefeld
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.lynx.de
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

[Adrian Crum]

That can go both ways. If your deployments depends upon the visual
themes being in the trunk, then perhaps you should fund their upkeep.

-Adrian

On 1/6/2011 2:58 PM, BJ Freeman wrote:

> so you will be glad to fund the effort to do that.
> Time is money. and anything the effects the ROI needs to be considered,
> if the software is to be widely accepted.
>
> =========================
> BJ Freeman
> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation
> <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
> Specialtymarket.com <http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>
> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>
>
> Ryan Foster sent the following on 1/6/2011 2:51 PM:
>> I completely agree with you BJ. Considerations definitely have to be
>> made when things are removed, especially if they are tied to the
>> framework. What is being discussed is whether to remove themes, which
>> can be hot-deployed from being maintained in the trunk. For future
>> releases, all you would need to do is manually add your themes, custom
>> or otherwise, to your production instance. If they are no longer tied
>> in svn to the trunk, they would not be effected by any updates or
>> releases.
>>
>> Ryan L. Foster
>> 801.671.0769
>> [hidden email]
>>
>> On Jan 6, 2011, at 3:40 PM, BJ Freeman wrote:
>>
>>> so there will not be any more releases based on the trunk?
>>> I was speaking in the future when 11.04 or 12.04 happen.
>>>
>>> it is the disregard of those that actually use this software instead
>>> of just enjoy developing it.
>>>
>>> I am a developer second and a business man first.
>>>
>>> basically you can add all you want but when you want to remove you
>>> must consider those that have counted on what was provided.
>>>
>>> =========================
>>> BJ Freeman
>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier
>>> Automation<http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>>>
>>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>>
>>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>>
>>>
>>> Bruno Busco sent the following on 1/6/2011 2:33 PM:
>>>> The theme will still be present in the 10.04 releases.
>>>> No production servers should rely on trunk.
>>>>
>>>> -Bruno
>>>>
>>>> 2011/1/6 BJ Freeman<[hidden email]>
>>>>
>>>>> I have one that uses the flat grey as default
>>>>> so if I do an update from the svn the flat grey will and my
>>>>> customization
>>>>> disappear.
>>>>>
>>>>> my sas uses all those in the themes, with my modification.
>>>>> they will be removed. when the svn update is run.
>>>>>
>>>>> those are just a few examples.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> =========================
>>>>> BJ Freeman
>>>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation<
>>>>> http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>>>>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>>>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>>>>
>>>>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Bruno Busco sent the following on 1/6/2011 2:00 PM:
>>>>>
>>>>> I am sorry, BJ, I do not see your point.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What could be the issue?
>>>>>> We will have less themes to maintain in the trunk (just Flat Grey,
>>>>>> Tomahawk,
>>>>>> Default and Multiflex).
>>>>>> We will have more people that will be able to maintain additional
>>>>>> themes
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> the Themes Gallery.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Production servers will have each one its selected theme (one of
>>>>>> the OOTB,
>>>>>> one of the Themes Gallery or a customized version of them).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Bruno
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2011/1/6 BJ Freeman<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> how about those that are using ofbiz for SAS and will have many
>>>>>> themes
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> their clients.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bruno Busco sent the following on 1/6/2011 12:51 PM:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes, having more than one theme in the trunk was originally
>>>>>>> accepted in
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> order to use and show the visual theme selection feature OOTB.
>>>>>>>> Actually Bluelight, Dropping Crumbs and Tomahawk are one the
>>>>>>>> evolution
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> the other.
>>>>>>>> Each time we decided to create a new theme instead of replacing
>>>>>>>> the one
>>>>>>>> existing just to avoid problems to users.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My proposal is to remove Bluelight, Dropping Crumbs and
>>>>>>>> BizznessTime
>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>> the trunk and put them in a separate themes repository as
>>>>>>>> suggested by
>>>>>>>> Ryan.
>>>>>>>> Remove the actual version of the Flat Grey from the trunk and
>>>>>>>> put it in
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> themes repository.
>>>>>>>> Improve the Flat Grey theme in the trunk with the work you guys are
>>>>>>>> doing.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In this way we will have in the trunk two themes for the backend
>>>>>>>> (Actual
>>>>>>>> FlatGrey and Tomahawk) and two themes for the ecommerce (Default
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> Multiflex).
>>>>>>>> In the themes repository there will be Bluelight, Dropping Crumbs,
>>>>>>>> BizznessTime and the actual FlatGrey.
>>>>>>>> It could be a nice start for the theme repository (and gallery)
>>>>>>>> start.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -Bruno
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2011/1/6 Jacques Le Roux<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> inline...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 6, 2011, at 11:38 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I understand your concerns about support, and your thoughts
>>>>>>>>>>>> on the
>>>>>>>>>>>> themes has some valid points. However, in regards to the
>>>>>>>>>>>> BizznessTime theme, I never really intended for that to be "my"
>>>>>>>>>>>> theme
>>>>>>>>>>>> anyway. I always viewed it as a community theme as that
>>>>>>>>>>>> was it's original intent and it was truly a collaborative
>>>>>>>>>>>> effort to
>>>>>>>>>>>> build it between myself, my colleagues at HotWax, BrainFood,
>>>>>>>>>>>> and other members of the the OFBiz community.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Right, sorry for that Ryan. It's only because I know you
>>>>>>>>>>>> were one
>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> "fathers" (the most important I guess) and helped much
>>>>>>>>>>> at the beginning, my apologies.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> At any rate, my time issues and focus have shifted significantly
>>>>>>>>>>> over
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> the last few months as I have left HotWax and gone into
>>>>>>>>>>>> independent consulting and freelance development. I plan on
>>>>>>>>>>>> taking
>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>> much more active role in the community in the months and
>>>>>>>>>>>> years ahead.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> That's really a good, very good news!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> As far as theme contributions go, I wonder if maybe it would
>>>>>>>>>>> be a
>>>>>>>>>>> good
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> idea to have a theme repo outside of the trunk that
>>>>>>>>>>>> individuals could commit to? The problem with theme maintenance
>>>>>>>>>>>> once
>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>> new theme has been added to the trunk is that not
>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone has commit privileges to the trunk. This makes the
>>>>>>>>>>>> process
>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>> maintenance a lot more time consuming for individual
>>>>>>>>>>>> contributors as they have to rely on patches, updates,
>>>>>>>>>>>> collaboration,
>>>>>>>>>>>> etc, rather than just monitoring and maintaining their own
>>>>>>>>>>>> code.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> This could certainly be discussed as themes are no blocking
>>>>>>>>>>>> parts
>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>> long
>>>>>>>>>>> as *at least one works "perfectly"* (another way is to
>>>>>>>>>>> become committer), opinions?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I think the way that Magento and Wordpress do it are good
>>>>>>>>>>> examples.
>>>>>>>>>> With
>>>>>>>>>> Wordpress, there is one "official" theme that is
>>>>>>>>>> included with the install, but there are literally thousands
>>>>>>>>>> of themes
>>>>>>>>>> that are not maintained by Wordpress that they list on
>>>>>>>>>> there site http://wordpress.org/extend/themes/, and now with
>>>>>>>>>> the 3.0
>>>>>>>>>> release you can even search for new themes and install them
>>>>>>>>>> automatically from inside your Wordpress install. Doing it
>>>>>>>>>> this way
>>>>>>>>>> fosters wider community support by delegating maintenance of
>>>>>>>>>> these themes to individual contributors rather than forcing it
>>>>>>>>>> on a
>>>>>>>>>> handful of committers and also allows developers to monetize
>>>>>>>>>> there contributions by offering "premium" themes and plugins. In
>>>>>>>>>> fact,
>>>>>>>>>> there are many individuals and companies in the Wordpress
>>>>>>>>>> community that make their living solely by selling themes and
>>>>>>>>>> plugins.
>>>>>>>>>> This furthers solidifies the base of support for the
>>>>>>>>>> project by offering a mid-tier option for someone who wants
>>>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>> than OOTB but can't necessarily afford custom
>>>>>>>>>> development.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This makes good sense indeed. The only difference, I guess, is
>>>>>>>>> unfortunately the width of the audience. This does not mean
>>>>>>>>> that we
>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>> not try...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 6, 2011, at 8:17 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> From my perspective, I don't see much chance in the Flat Grey
>>>>>>>>>>>> visual
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> theme being abandoned. Enough people use it that it will
>>>>>>>>>>>>> get the attention it needs. If Ryan isn't available to fix
>>>>>>>>>>>>> something,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> can fix it. If I'm not available, someone else could
>>>>>>>>>>>>> fix it, etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/6/2011 6:02 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your screen copies at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-4092
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> looks really great! Looking forward for the implementation...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My concerns are that maybe you will not have enough time
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> later to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> keep
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> up with possible bugs or other issues. Look for instance what
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happened
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to Bizzness Time
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-2398
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Even if it looks a bit old, we have a theme which works
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> great. Why
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taking any risks with it? Also I can't see any issues with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> having
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes. The more we have the better, I like to have the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> choice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Some
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (rare) people prefer to use old things, see games machines or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> synthesizers for instance (I still love the DX-7 sound
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_DX7
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.vintagesynth.com/yamaha/dx7.php)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are any evolved version of Flat Grey yet. So this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1st
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> modern one still using the RTL mechanism introduced by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Adrian.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> choice the name!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> IMO I see no reason to have a "Flat Grey Evolution" theme.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> right, the Flat Grey theme hasn't had a visual update in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> years and it looks very dated. It needs some love. Let's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not add
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> another improved version, let's just improve the version we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have now. I think that is more efficient and more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> beneficial in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> long run.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As far as the tabs go, we can still keep a horizontal,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tab-like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> navigation without actually having the tabs look like tabs.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because, the absolutely do look terrible displayed in two
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rows.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Adrian, I would be happy to collaborate with you on this. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think I have some ideas that could help. Email me
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> directly if you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to hash out some ideas outside of this mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> discussion.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Consequently, as far as new admin themes go, I guess I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can use
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an opportunity as well to drop a teaser about a new theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have been working on already for some time now that I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> honestly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hope
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will become the go-to theme for scalability and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> customization, and that will eventually replace the Flat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grey
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> altogether. The new theme scales down very well to 800x600
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and has minimal styling for maximum flexibility and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> customization.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stay tuned for more details in the next few days...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 3, 2011, at 11:04 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chiclet refers to a brand of chewing gum. The tabs look like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pieces
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of Chiclets chewing gum. They look terrible when they are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> displayed in two rows.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Mon, 1/3/11, Jacques Le Roux<
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> By "chiclet" main navigation style,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you mean the tabs? Then I think we should keep Flat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grey as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it is (because there are advantages
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to have tabs) and create a Flat Grey evolution...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Adrian Crum"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was thinking we could use colors from the Apache logo
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the BizznessTime theme. I would also like to get
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rid of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the "chiclet"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> main navigation style, and maybe have that menu in a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> collapsible left column.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Sun, 1/2/11, Sascha Rodekamp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Sascha
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rodekamp<[hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Discussion: Flat Grey Visual Theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: [hidden email],
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Jacques Le Roux"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Sunday, January 2, 2011, 2:27 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I really would appreciate to keep the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Flat Gray. But you're right it needs a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> few visual improvements.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me think about this, maybe somethink comes to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my mind
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ..... :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2010/12/29 Jacques Le Roux<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> IIRW, it's the only really RTL capable. So a big YES
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to keep
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have no ideas though :/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Adrian Crum"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Flat Grey visual theme is getting old.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The current version of the theme is based on the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> original
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> look
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and feel of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OFBiz when I first joined the community - back in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2004.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Around
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Spring of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2007 I added some gradient gifs to make the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> original style
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> little more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interesting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After that, the visual theme was converted to a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> floating
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> flexible layout
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (to fit any size screen), it was made
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sight-impaired accessible (font size
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can be changed), and it added support for bi-directional
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> layout
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (for rtl
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> languages). Those design decisions were made by the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OFBiz
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> community and, in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my opinion, continue to make the Flat Grey theme the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fallback
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme when all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> else fails. It just works.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Despite its advantages, it looks dated. I would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> update
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it to make
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it more modern, but maintain its advantages over
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes. I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking it only needs css and gif file updates. The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> current
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> templates and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> javascripts would be maintained.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If anyone is interested, they are welcome to help
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> appreciate any suggestions or comments.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me know what you think.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sascha Rodekamp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lynx-Consulting GmbH
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Johanniskirchplatz 6
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> D-33615 Bielefeld
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.lynx.de
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

[BJ Freeman]

Adrian i am sure as a business man you understand if it ain't broke
don't fix it.
Now if you talking about new themes I can agree, but no one has proposed
any or give an price.

=========================
BJ Freeman
Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation  <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
Specialtymarket.com  <http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist

Chat  Y! messenger: bjfr33man


Adrian Crum sent the following on 1/6/2011 3:23 PM:

> That can go both ways. If your deployments depends upon the visual
> themes being in the trunk, then perhaps you should fund their upkeep.
>
> -Adrian
>
> On 1/6/2011 2:58 PM, BJ Freeman wrote:
>> so you will be glad to fund the effort to do that.
>> Time is money. and anything the effects the ROI needs to be considered,
>> if the software is to be widely accepted.
>>
>> =========================
>> BJ Freeman
>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation
>> <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>> Specialtymarket.com <http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>
>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>
>>
>> Ryan Foster sent the following on 1/6/2011 2:51 PM:
>>> I completely agree with you BJ. Considerations definitely have to be
>>> made when things are removed, especially if they are tied to the
>>> framework. What is being discussed is whether to remove themes, which
>>> can be hot-deployed from being maintained in the trunk. For future
>>> releases, all you would need to do is manually add your themes, custom
>>> or otherwise, to your production instance. If they are no longer tied
>>> in svn to the trunk, they would not be effected by any updates or
>>> releases.
>>>
>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>> 801.671.0769
>>> [hidden email]
>>>
>>> On Jan 6, 2011, at 3:40 PM, BJ Freeman wrote:
>>>
>>>> so there will not be any more releases based on the trunk?
>>>> I was speaking in the future when 11.04 or 12.04 happen.
>>>>
>>>> it is the disregard of those that actually use this software instead
>>>> of just enjoy developing it.
>>>>
>>>> I am a developer second and a business man first.
>>>>
>>>> basically you can add all you want but when you want to remove you
>>>> must consider those that have counted on what was provided.
>>>>
>>>> =========================
>>>> BJ Freeman
>>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier
>>>> Automation<http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>>>
>>>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Bruno Busco sent the following on 1/6/2011 2:33 PM:
>>>>> The theme will still be present in the 10.04 releases.
>>>>> No production servers should rely on trunk.
>>>>>
>>>>> -Bruno
>>>>>
>>>>> 2011/1/6 BJ Freeman<[hidden email]>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I have one that uses the flat grey as default
>>>>>> so if I do an update from the svn the flat grey will and my
>>>>>> customization
>>>>>> disappear.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> my sas uses all those in the themes, with my modification.
>>>>>> they will be removed. when the svn update is run.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> those are just a few examples.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> =========================
>>>>>> BJ Freeman
>>>>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation<
>>>>>> http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>>>>>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>>>>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bruno Busco sent the following on 1/6/2011 2:00 PM:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am sorry, BJ, I do not see your point.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What could be the issue?
>>>>>>> We will have less themes to maintain in the trunk (just Flat Grey,
>>>>>>> Tomahawk,
>>>>>>> Default and Multiflex).
>>>>>>> We will have more people that will be able to maintain additional
>>>>>>> themes
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> the Themes Gallery.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Production servers will have each one its selected theme (one of
>>>>>>> the OOTB,
>>>>>>> one of the Themes Gallery or a customized version of them).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Bruno
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2011/1/6 BJ Freeman<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> how about those that are using ofbiz for SAS and will have many
>>>>>>> themes
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> their clients.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bruno Busco sent the following on 1/6/2011 12:51 PM:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yes, having more than one theme in the trunk was originally
>>>>>>>> accepted in
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> order to use and show the visual theme selection feature OOTB.
>>>>>>>>> Actually Bluelight, Dropping Crumbs and Tomahawk are one the
>>>>>>>>> evolution
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> the other.
>>>>>>>>> Each time we decided to create a new theme instead of replacing
>>>>>>>>> the one
>>>>>>>>> existing just to avoid problems to users.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> My proposal is to remove Bluelight, Dropping Crumbs and
>>>>>>>>> BizznessTime
>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>> the trunk and put them in a separate themes repository as
>>>>>>>>> suggested by
>>>>>>>>> Ryan.
>>>>>>>>> Remove the actual version of the Flat Grey from the trunk and
>>>>>>>>> put it in
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> themes repository.
>>>>>>>>> Improve the Flat Grey theme in the trunk with the work you guys
>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>> doing.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In this way we will have in the trunk two themes for the backend
>>>>>>>>> (Actual
>>>>>>>>> FlatGrey and Tomahawk) and two themes for the ecommerce (Default
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> Multiflex).
>>>>>>>>> In the themes repository there will be Bluelight, Dropping Crumbs,
>>>>>>>>> BizznessTime and the actual FlatGrey.
>>>>>>>>> It could be a nice start for the theme repository (and gallery)
>>>>>>>>> start.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -Bruno
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 2011/1/6 Jacques Le Roux<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> inline...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 6, 2011, at 11:38 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I understand your concerns about support, and your thoughts
>>>>>>>>>>>>> on the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes has some valid points. However, in regards to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> BizznessTime theme, I never really intended for that to be
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "my"
>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>> anyway. I always viewed it as a community theme as that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> was it's original intent and it was truly a collaborative
>>>>>>>>>>>>> effort to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> build it between myself, my colleagues at HotWax, BrainFood,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and other members of the the OFBiz community.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Right, sorry for that Ryan. It's only because I know you
>>>>>>>>>>>>> were one
>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> "fathers" (the most important I guess) and helped much
>>>>>>>>>>>> at the beginning, my apologies.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> At any rate, my time issues and focus have shifted
>>>>>>>>>>>> significantly
>>>>>>>>>>>> over
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> the last few months as I have left HotWax and gone into
>>>>>>>>>>>>> independent consulting and freelance development. I plan on
>>>>>>>>>>>>> taking
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> much more active role in the community in the months and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> years ahead.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's really a good, very good news!
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> As far as theme contributions go, I wonder if maybe it would
>>>>>>>>>>>> be a
>>>>>>>>>>>> good
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> idea to have a theme repo outside of the trunk that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> individuals could commit to? The problem with theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>> maintenance
>>>>>>>>>>>>> once
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> new theme has been added to the trunk is that not
>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone has commit privileges to the trunk. This makes the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> process
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> maintenance a lot more time consuming for individual
>>>>>>>>>>>>> contributors as they have to rely on patches, updates,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> collaboration,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc, rather than just monitoring and maintaining their own
>>>>>>>>>>>>> code.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> This could certainly be discussed as themes are no blocking
>>>>>>>>>>>>> parts
>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>> long
>>>>>>>>>>>> as *at least one works "perfectly"* (another way is to
>>>>>>>>>>>> become committer), opinions?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I think the way that Magento and Wordpress do it are good
>>>>>>>>>>>> examples.
>>>>>>>>>>> With
>>>>>>>>>>> Wordpress, there is one "official" theme that is
>>>>>>>>>>> included with the install, but there are literally thousands
>>>>>>>>>>> of themes
>>>>>>>>>>> that are not maintained by Wordpress that they list on
>>>>>>>>>>> there site http://wordpress.org/extend/themes/, and now with
>>>>>>>>>>> the 3.0
>>>>>>>>>>> release you can even search for new themes and install them
>>>>>>>>>>> automatically from inside your Wordpress install. Doing it
>>>>>>>>>>> this way
>>>>>>>>>>> fosters wider community support by delegating maintenance of
>>>>>>>>>>> these themes to individual contributors rather than forcing it
>>>>>>>>>>> on a
>>>>>>>>>>> handful of committers and also allows developers to monetize
>>>>>>>>>>> there contributions by offering "premium" themes and plugins. In
>>>>>>>>>>> fact,
>>>>>>>>>>> there are many individuals and companies in the Wordpress
>>>>>>>>>>> community that make their living solely by selling themes and
>>>>>>>>>>> plugins.
>>>>>>>>>>> This furthers solidifies the base of support for the
>>>>>>>>>>> project by offering a mid-tier option for someone who wants
>>>>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>> than OOTB but can't necessarily afford custom
>>>>>>>>>>> development.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> This makes good sense indeed. The only difference, I guess, is
>>>>>>>>>> unfortunately the width of the audience. This does not mean
>>>>>>>>>> that we
>>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>>> not try...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 6, 2011, at 8:17 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> From my perspective, I don't see much chance in the Flat Grey
>>>>>>>>>>>>> visual
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme being abandoned. Enough people use it that it will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get the attention it needs. If Ryan isn't available to fix
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can fix it. If I'm not available, someone else could
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fix it, etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/6/2011 6:02 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your screen copies at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-4092
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> looks really great! Looking forward for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> implementation...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My concerns are that maybe you will not have enough time
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> later to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> keep
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> up with possible bugs or other issues. Look for instance
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happened
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to Bizzness Time
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-2398
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Even if it looks a bit old, we have a theme which works
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> great. Why
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taking any risks with it? Also I can't see any issues with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> having
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes. The more we have the better, I like to have the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> choice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Some
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (rare) people prefer to use old things, see games
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> machines or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> synthesizers for instance (I still love the DX-7 sound
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_DX7
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.vintagesynth.com/yamaha/dx7.php)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are any evolved version of Flat Grey yet. So this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1st
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> modern one still using the RTL mechanism introduced by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Adrian.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> choice the name!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> IMO I see no reason to have a "Flat Grey Evolution" theme.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> right, the Flat Grey theme hasn't had a visual update in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> years and it looks very dated. It needs some love. Let's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not add
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> another improved version, let's just improve the version we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have now. I think that is more efficient and more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> beneficial in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> long run.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As far as the tabs go, we can still keep a horizontal,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tab-like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> navigation without actually having the tabs look like tabs.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because, the absolutely do look terrible displayed in two
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rows.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Adrian, I would be happy to collaborate with you on this. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think I have some ideas that could help. Email me
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> directly if you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to hash out some ideas outside of this mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> discussion.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Consequently, as far as new admin themes go, I guess I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can use
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an opportunity as well to drop a teaser about a new theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have been working on already for some time now that I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> honestly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hope
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will become the go-to theme for scalability and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> customization, and that will eventually replace the Flat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grey
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> altogether. The new theme scales down very well to 800x600
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and has minimal styling for maximum flexibility and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> customization.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stay tuned for more details in the next few days...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 3, 2011, at 11:04 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chiclet refers to a brand of chewing gum. The tabs look
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pieces
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of Chiclets chewing gum. They look terrible when they are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> displayed in two rows.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Mon, 1/3/11, Jacques Le Roux<
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> By "chiclet" main navigation style,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you mean the tabs? Then I think we should keep Flat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grey as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it is (because there are advantages
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to have tabs) and create a Flat Grey evolution...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Adrian Crum"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was thinking we could use colors from the Apache logo
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the BizznessTime theme. I would also like to get
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rid of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the "chiclet"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> main navigation style, and maybe have that menu in a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> collapsible left column.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Sun, 1/2/11, Sascha Rodekamp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Sascha
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rodekamp<[hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Discussion: Flat Grey Visual Theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: [hidden email],
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Jacques Le Roux"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Sunday, January 2, 2011, 2:27 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I really would appreciate to keep the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Flat Gray. But you're right it needs a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> few visual improvements.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me think about this, maybe somethink comes to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my mind
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ..... :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2010/12/29 Jacques Le
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Roux<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> IIRW, it's the only really RTL capable. So a big YES
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to keep
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have no ideas though :/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Adrian Crum"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Flat Grey visual theme is getting old.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The current version of the theme is based on the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> original
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> look
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and feel of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OFBiz when I first joined the community - back in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2004.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Around
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Spring of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2007 I added some gradient gifs to make the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> original style
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> little more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interesting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After that, the visual theme was converted to a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> floating
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> flexible layout
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (to fit any size screen), it was made
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sight-impaired accessible (font size
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can be changed), and it added support for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bi-directional
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> layout
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (for rtl
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> languages). Those design decisions were made by the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OFBiz
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> community and, in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my opinion, continue to make the Flat Grey theme the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fallback
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme when all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> else fails. It just works.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Despite its advantages, it looks dated. I would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> update
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it to make
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it more modern, but maintain its advantages over
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes. I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking it only needs css and gif file updates. The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> current
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> templates and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> javascripts would be maintained.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If anyone is interested, they are welcome to help
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> appreciate any suggestions or comments.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me know what you think.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sascha Rodekamp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lynx-Consulting GmbH
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Johanniskirchplatz 6
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> D-33615 Bielefeld
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.lynx.de
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>

[Ajay Lashkari]

I think we should work on some animations and gif files. It should be added
in the existing theme. Because it will improve look and feel of the theme.
Also we should update our themes regularly so that we can compete with other
framework applications. I know it would not be easy but by using animations
we can express our ideas in effective manner.


Thanks & Regards,
Ajay Lashkari



On Wed, Dec 29, 2010 at 11:58 AM, Adrian Crum <[hidden email]> wrote:

> The Flat Grey visual theme is getting old.
>
> The current version of the theme is based on the original look and feel of
> OFBiz when I first joined the community - back in 2004. Around the Spring of
> 2007 I added some gradient gifs to make the original style a little more
> interesting.
>
> After that, the visual theme was converted to a floating flexible layout
> (to fit any size screen), it was made sight-impaired accessible (font size
> can be changed), and it added support for bi-directional layout (for rtl
> languages). Those design decisions were made by the OFBiz community and, in
> my opinion, continue to make the Flat Grey theme the fallback theme when all
> else fails. It just works.
>
> Despite its advantages, it looks dated. I would like to update it to make
> it more modern, but maintain its advantages over the other themes. I'm
> thinking it only needs css and gif file updates. The current templates and
> javascripts would be maintained.
>
> If anyone is interested, they are welcome to help out. I would also
> appreciate any suggestions or comments.
>
> Let me know what you think.
>
> -Adrian
>
>
>
>
>

[Jacques Le Roux]

OK, that was the reason I had some concerns. Let's discuss it seriously...

I think there are 2 ways to create a new themes from an existing one (a brand new one is not a problem).

Duplicate an OOTB existing one and peek an poke there (resourceValues in ThemeNameThemeData.xml are all refering to locations in
this theme)
pros: independent from changes in the original theme (no pb if the theme dissapears, is changed for any reasons, etc.)
cons: independent from changes in the original theme (you can't benefit from bug fixes, improvements, enhancements, etc.)

Create a new theme by keeping references to an OOTB existing (some resourceValues in ThemeNameThemeData.xml are still refering to
locations in this original theme)
As (almost) ever there are 2 faces to the coin, the pros and cons are reversed from above.

Which one are you using BJ? I guess the second. Else you would not have any concerns

Jacques

From: "BJ Freeman" <[hidden email]>

> Adrian i am sure as a business man you understand if it ain't broke don't fix it.
> Now if you talking about new themes I can agree, but no one has proposed any or give an price.
>
> =========================
> BJ Freeman
> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation  <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
> Specialtymarket.com  <http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>
> Chat  Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>
>
> Adrian Crum sent the following on 1/6/2011 3:23 PM:
>> That can go both ways. If your deployments depends upon the visual
>> themes being in the trunk, then perhaps you should fund their upkeep.
>>
>> -Adrian
>>
>> On 1/6/2011 2:58 PM, BJ Freeman wrote:
>>> so you will be glad to fund the effort to do that.
>>> Time is money. and anything the effects the ROI needs to be considered,
>>> if the software is to be widely accepted.
>>>
>>> =========================
>>> BJ Freeman
>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation
>>> <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>>> Specialtymarket.com <http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>>
>>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>>
>>>
>>> Ryan Foster sent the following on 1/6/2011 2:51 PM:
>>>> I completely agree with you BJ. Considerations definitely have to be
>>>> made when things are removed, especially if they are tied to the
>>>> framework. What is being discussed is whether to remove themes, which
>>>> can be hot-deployed from being maintained in the trunk. For future
>>>> releases, all you would need to do is manually add your themes, custom
>>>> or otherwise, to your production instance. If they are no longer tied
>>>> in svn to the trunk, they would not be effected by any updates or
>>>> releases.
>>>>
>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 6, 2011, at 3:40 PM, BJ Freeman wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> so there will not be any more releases based on the trunk?
>>>>> I was speaking in the future when 11.04 or 12.04 happen.
>>>>>
>>>>> it is the disregard of those that actually use this software instead
>>>>> of just enjoy developing it.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am a developer second and a business man first.
>>>>>
>>>>> basically you can add all you want but when you want to remove you
>>>>> must consider those that have counted on what was provided.
>>>>>
>>>>> =========================
>>>>> BJ Freeman
>>>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier
>>>>> Automation<http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>>>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>>>>
>>>>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Bruno Busco sent the following on 1/6/2011 2:33 PM:
>>>>>> The theme will still be present in the 10.04 releases.
>>>>>> No production servers should rely on trunk.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Bruno
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2011/1/6 BJ Freeman<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have one that uses the flat grey as default
>>>>>>> so if I do an update from the svn the flat grey will and my
>>>>>>> customization
>>>>>>> disappear.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> my sas uses all those in the themes, with my modification.
>>>>>>> they will be removed. when the svn update is run.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> those are just a few examples.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> =========================
>>>>>>> BJ Freeman
>>>>>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation<
>>>>>>> http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>>>>>>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>>>>>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bruno Busco sent the following on 1/6/2011 2:00 PM:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am sorry, BJ, I do not see your point.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What could be the issue?
>>>>>>>> We will have less themes to maintain in the trunk (just Flat Grey,
>>>>>>>> Tomahawk,
>>>>>>>> Default and Multiflex).
>>>>>>>> We will have more people that will be able to maintain additional
>>>>>>>> themes
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>> the Themes Gallery.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Production servers will have each one its selected theme (one of
>>>>>>>> the OOTB,
>>>>>>>> one of the Themes Gallery or a customized version of them).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -Bruno
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2011/1/6 BJ Freeman<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> how about those that are using ofbiz for SAS and will have many
>>>>>>>> themes
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> their clients.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Bruno Busco sent the following on 1/6/2011 12:51 PM:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yes, having more than one theme in the trunk was originally
>>>>>>>>> accepted in
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> order to use and show the visual theme selection feature OOTB.
>>>>>>>>>> Actually Bluelight, Dropping Crumbs and Tomahawk are one the
>>>>>>>>>> evolution
>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>> the other.
>>>>>>>>>> Each time we decided to create a new theme instead of replacing
>>>>>>>>>> the one
>>>>>>>>>> existing just to avoid problems to users.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> My proposal is to remove Bluelight, Dropping Crumbs and
>>>>>>>>>> BizznessTime
>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>> the trunk and put them in a separate themes repository as
>>>>>>>>>> suggested by
>>>>>>>>>> Ryan.
>>>>>>>>>> Remove the actual version of the Flat Grey from the trunk and
>>>>>>>>>> put it in
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> themes repository.
>>>>>>>>>> Improve the Flat Grey theme in the trunk with the work you guys
>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>> doing.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In this way we will have in the trunk two themes for the backend
>>>>>>>>>> (Actual
>>>>>>>>>> FlatGrey and Tomahawk) and two themes for the ecommerce (Default
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> Multiflex).
>>>>>>>>>> In the themes repository there will be Bluelight, Dropping Crumbs,
>>>>>>>>>> BizznessTime and the actual FlatGrey.
>>>>>>>>>> It could be a nice start for the theme repository (and gallery)
>>>>>>>>>> start.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -Bruno
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 2011/1/6 Jacques Le Roux<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> inline...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 6, 2011, at 11:38 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I understand your concerns about support, and your thoughts
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes has some valid points. However, in regards to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BizznessTime theme, I never really intended for that to be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "my"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anyway. I always viewed it as a community theme as that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was it's original intent and it was truly a collaborative
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> effort to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> build it between myself, my colleagues at HotWax, BrainFood,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and other members of the the OFBiz community.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Right, sorry for that Ryan. It's only because I know you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were one
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "fathers" (the most important I guess) and helped much
>>>>>>>>>>>>> at the beginning, my apologies.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> At any rate, my time issues and focus have shifted
>>>>>>>>>>>>> significantly
>>>>>>>>>>>>> over
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the last few months as I have left HotWax and gone into
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> independent consulting and freelance development. I plan on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> much more active role in the community in the months and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> years ahead.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's really a good, very good news!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> As far as theme contributions go, I wonder if maybe it would
>>>>>>>>>>>>> be a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> good
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> idea to have a theme repo outside of the trunk that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> individuals could commit to? The problem with theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maintenance
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> once
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> new theme has been added to the trunk is that not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone has commit privileges to the trunk. This makes the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> process
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maintenance a lot more time consuming for individual
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contributors as they have to rely on patches, updates,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> collaboration,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc, rather than just monitoring and maintaining their own
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> code.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This could certainly be discussed as themes are no blocking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> parts
>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>> long
>>>>>>>>>>>>> as *at least one works "perfectly"* (another way is to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> become committer), opinions?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think the way that Magento and Wordpress do it are good
>>>>>>>>>>>>> examples.
>>>>>>>>>>>> With
>>>>>>>>>>>> Wordpress, there is one "official" theme that is
>>>>>>>>>>>> included with the install, but there are literally thousands
>>>>>>>>>>>> of themes
>>>>>>>>>>>> that are not maintained by Wordpress that they list on
>>>>>>>>>>>> there site http://wordpress.org/extend/themes/, and now with
>>>>>>>>>>>> the 3.0
>>>>>>>>>>>> release you can even search for new themes and install them
>>>>>>>>>>>> automatically from inside your Wordpress install. Doing it
>>>>>>>>>>>> this way
>>>>>>>>>>>> fosters wider community support by delegating maintenance of
>>>>>>>>>>>> these themes to individual contributors rather than forcing it
>>>>>>>>>>>> on a
>>>>>>>>>>>> handful of committers and also allows developers to monetize
>>>>>>>>>>>> there contributions by offering "premium" themes and plugins. In
>>>>>>>>>>>> fact,
>>>>>>>>>>>> there are many individuals and companies in the Wordpress
>>>>>>>>>>>> community that make their living solely by selling themes and
>>>>>>>>>>>> plugins.
>>>>>>>>>>>> This furthers solidifies the base of support for the
>>>>>>>>>>>> project by offering a mid-tier option for someone who wants
>>>>>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>> than OOTB but can't necessarily afford custom
>>>>>>>>>>>> development.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> This makes good sense indeed. The only difference, I guess, is
>>>>>>>>>>> unfortunately the width of the audience. This does not mean
>>>>>>>>>>> that we
>>>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>>>> not try...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 6, 2011, at 8:17 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From my perspective, I don't see much chance in the Flat Grey
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visual
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme being abandoned. Enough people use it that it will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get the attention it needs. If Ryan isn't available to fix
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can fix it. If I'm not available, someone else could
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fix it, etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/6/2011 6:02 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your screen copies at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-4092
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> looks really great! Looking forward for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> implementation...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My concerns are that maybe you will not have enough time
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> later to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> keep
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> up with possible bugs or other issues. Look for instance
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happened
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to Bizzness Time
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-2398
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Even if it looks a bit old, we have a theme which works
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> great. Why
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taking any risks with it? Also I can't see any issues with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> having
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes. The more we have the better, I like to have the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> choice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Some
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (rare) people prefer to use old things, see games
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> machines or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> synthesizers for instance (I still love the DX-7 sound
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_DX7
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.vintagesynth.com/yamaha/dx7.php)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are any evolved version of Flat Grey yet. So this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1st
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> modern one still using the RTL mechanism introduced by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Adrian.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> choice the name!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> IMO I see no reason to have a "Flat Grey Evolution" theme.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> right, the Flat Grey theme hasn't had a visual update in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> years and it looks very dated. It needs some love. Let's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not add
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> another improved version, let's just improve the version we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have now. I think that is more efficient and more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> beneficial in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> long run.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As far as the tabs go, we can still keep a horizontal,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tab-like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> navigation without actually having the tabs look like tabs.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because, the absolutely do look terrible displayed in two
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rows.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Adrian, I would be happy to collaborate with you on this. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think I have some ideas that could help. Email me
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> directly if you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to hash out some ideas outside of this mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> discussion.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Consequently, as far as new admin themes go, I guess I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can use
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an opportunity as well to drop a teaser about a new theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have been working on already for some time now that I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> honestly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hope
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will become the go-to theme for scalability and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> customization, and that will eventually replace the Flat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grey
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> altogether. The new theme scales down very well to 800x600
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and has minimal styling for maximum flexibility and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> customization.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stay tuned for more details in the next few days...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 3, 2011, at 11:04 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chiclet refers to a brand of chewing gum. The tabs look
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pieces
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of Chiclets chewing gum. They look terrible when they are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> displayed in two rows.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Mon, 1/3/11, Jacques Le Roux<
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> By "chiclet" main navigation style,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you mean the tabs? Then I think we should keep Flat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grey as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it is (because there are advantages
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to have tabs) and create a Flat Grey evolution...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Adrian Crum"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was thinking we could use colors from the Apache logo
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the BizznessTime theme. I would also like to get
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rid of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the "chiclet"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> main navigation style, and maybe have that menu in a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> collapsible left column.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Sun, 1/2/11, Sascha Rodekamp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Sascha
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rodekamp<[hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Discussion: Flat Grey Visual Theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: [hidden email],
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Jacques Le Roux"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Sunday, January 2, 2011, 2:27 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I really would appreciate to keep the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Flat Gray. But you're right it needs a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> few visual improvements.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me think about this, maybe somethink comes to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my mind
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ..... :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2010/12/29 Jacques Le
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Roux<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> IIRW, it's the only really RTL capable. So a big YES
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to keep
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have no ideas though :/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Adrian Crum"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Flat Grey visual theme is getting old.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The current version of the theme is based on the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> original
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> look
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and feel of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OFBiz when I first joined the community - back in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2004.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Around
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Spring of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2007 I added some gradient gifs to make the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> original style
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> little more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interesting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After that, the visual theme was converted to a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> floating
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> flexible layout
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (to fit any size screen), it was made
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sight-impaired accessible (font size
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can be changed), and it added support for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bi-directional
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> layout
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (for rtl
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> languages). Those design decisions were made by the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OFBiz
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> community and, in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my opinion, continue to make the Flat Grey theme the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fallback
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme when all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> else fails. It just works.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Despite its advantages, it looks dated. I would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> update
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it to make
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it more modern, but maintain its advantages over
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes. I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking it only needs css and gif file updates. The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> current
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> templates and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> javascripts would be maintained.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If anyone is interested, they are welcome to help
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> appreciate any suggestions or comments.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me know what you think.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sascha Rodekamp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lynx-Consulting GmbH
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Johanniskirchplatz 6
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> D-33615 Bielefeld
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.lynx.de
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>