Discussion: Flat Grey Visual Theme

[Bruno Busco]

The themes repository should not actually be a SVN repository but the
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBIZ/Visual+Themes+Gallery can
be a right place to host them.
Simpler, easier to access.

-Bruno

2011/1/7 Jacques Le Roux <[hidden email]>

> OK, that was the reason I had some concerns. Let's discuss it seriously...
>
> I think there are 2 ways to create a new themes from an existing one (a
> brand new one is not a problem).
>
> Duplicate an OOTB existing one and peek an poke there (resourceValues in
> ThemeNameThemeData.xml are all refering to locations in this theme)
> pros: independent from changes in the original theme (no pb if the theme
> dissapears, is changed for any reasons, etc.)
> cons: independent from changes in the original theme (you can't benefit
> from bug fixes, improvements, enhancements, etc.)
>
> Create a new theme by keeping references to an OOTB existing (some
> resourceValues in ThemeNameThemeData.xml are still refering to locations in
> this original theme)
> As (almost) ever there are 2 faces to the coin, the pros and cons are
> reversed from above.
>
> Which one are you using BJ? I guess the second. Else you would not have any
> concerns
>
> Jacques
>
> From: "BJ Freeman" <[hidden email]>
>
>  Adrian i am sure as a business man you understand if it ain't broke don't
>> fix it.
>> Now if you talking about new themes I can agree, but no one has proposed
>> any or give an price.
>>
>> =========================
>> BJ Freeman
>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation  <
>> http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>> Specialtymarket.com  <http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>
>> Chat  Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>
>>
>> Adrian Crum sent the following on 1/6/2011 3:23 PM:
>>
>>> That can go both ways. If your deployments depends upon the visual
>>> themes being in the trunk, then perhaps you should fund their upkeep.
>>>
>>> -Adrian
>>>
>>> On 1/6/2011 2:58 PM, BJ Freeman wrote:
>>>
>>>> so you will be glad to fund the effort to do that.
>>>> Time is money. and anything the effects the ROI needs to be considered,
>>>> if the software is to be widely accepted.
>>>>
>>>> =========================
>>>> BJ Freeman
>>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation
>>>> <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>>>> Specialtymarket.com <http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>>>
>>>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ryan Foster sent the following on 1/6/2011 2:51 PM:
>>>>
>>>>> I completely agree with you BJ. Considerations definitely have to be
>>>>> made when things are removed, especially if they are tied to the
>>>>> framework. What is being discussed is whether to remove themes, which
>>>>> can be hot-deployed from being maintained in the trunk. For future
>>>>> releases, all you would need to do is manually add your themes, custom
>>>>> or otherwise, to your production instance. If they are no longer tied
>>>>> in svn to the trunk, they would not be effected by any updates or
>>>>> releases.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 6, 2011, at 3:40 PM, BJ Freeman wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>  so there will not be any more releases based on the trunk?
>>>>>> I was speaking in the future when 11.04 or 12.04 happen.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> it is the disregard of those that actually use this software instead
>>>>>> of just enjoy developing it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am a developer second and a business man first.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> basically you can add all you want but when you want to remove you
>>>>>> must consider those that have counted on what was provided.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> =========================
>>>>>> BJ Freeman
>>>>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier
>>>>>> Automation<
>>>>>> http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>>>>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bruno Busco sent the following on 1/6/2011 2:33 PM:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The theme will still be present in the 10.04 releases.
>>>>>>> No production servers should rely on trunk.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Bruno
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2011/1/6 BJ Freeman<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  I have one that uses the flat grey as default
>>>>>>>> so if I do an update from the svn the flat grey will and my
>>>>>>>> customization
>>>>>>>> disappear.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> my sas uses all those in the themes, with my modification.
>>>>>>>> they will be removed. when the svn update is run.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> those are just a few examples.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> =========================
>>>>>>>> BJ Freeman
>>>>>>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation<
>>>>>>>> http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>>>>>>>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>>>>>>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bruno Busco sent the following on 1/6/2011 2:00 PM:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I am sorry, BJ, I do not see your point.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What could be the issue?
>>>>>>>>> We will have less themes to maintain in the trunk (just Flat Grey,
>>>>>>>>> Tomahawk,
>>>>>>>>> Default and Multiflex).
>>>>>>>>> We will have more people that will be able to maintain additional
>>>>>>>>> themes
>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>> the Themes Gallery.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Production servers will have each one its selected theme (one of
>>>>>>>>> the OOTB,
>>>>>>>>> one of the Themes Gallery or a customized version of them).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -Bruno
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 2011/1/6 BJ Freeman<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> how about those that are using ofbiz for SAS and will have many
>>>>>>>>> themes
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> their clients.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Bruno Busco sent the following on 1/6/2011 12:51 PM:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Yes, having more than one theme in the trunk was originally
>>>>>>>>>> accepted in
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> order to use and show the visual theme selection feature OOTB.
>>>>>>>>>>> Actually Bluelight, Dropping Crumbs and Tomahawk are one the
>>>>>>>>>>> evolution
>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>> the other.
>>>>>>>>>>> Each time we decided to create a new theme instead of replacing
>>>>>>>>>>> the one
>>>>>>>>>>> existing just to avoid problems to users.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> My proposal is to remove Bluelight, Dropping Crumbs and
>>>>>>>>>>> BizznessTime
>>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>> the trunk and put them in a separate themes repository as
>>>>>>>>>>> suggested by
>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan.
>>>>>>>>>>> Remove the actual version of the Flat Grey from the trunk and
>>>>>>>>>>> put it in
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> themes repository.
>>>>>>>>>>> Improve the Flat Grey theme in the trunk with the work you guys
>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>> doing.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> In this way we will have in the trunk two themes for the backend
>>>>>>>>>>> (Actual
>>>>>>>>>>> FlatGrey and Tomahawk) and two themes for the ecommerce (Default
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> Multiflex).
>>>>>>>>>>> In the themes repository there will be Bluelight, Dropping
>>>>>>>>>>> Crumbs,
>>>>>>>>>>> BizznessTime and the actual FlatGrey.
>>>>>>>>>>> It could be a nice start for the theme repository (and gallery)
>>>>>>>>>>> start.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -Bruno
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> 2011/1/6 Jacques Le Roux<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> inline...
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 6, 2011, at 11:38 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  Jacques,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I understand your concerns about support, and your thoughts
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes has some valid points. However, in regards to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BizznessTime theme, I never really intended for that to be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "my"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anyway. I always viewed it as a community theme as that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was it's original intent and it was truly a collaborative
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> effort to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> build it between myself, my colleagues at HotWax, BrainFood,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and other members of the the OFBiz community.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Right, sorry for that Ryan. It's only because I know you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "fathers" (the most important I guess) and helped much
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at the beginning, my apologies.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> At any rate, my time issues and focus have shifted
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> significantly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the last few months as I have left HotWax and gone into
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> independent consulting and freelance development. I plan on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> much more active role in the community in the months and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> years ahead.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's really a good, very good news!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As far as theme contributions go, I wonder if maybe it would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> good
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> idea to have a theme repo outside of the trunk that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> individuals could commit to? The problem with theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maintenance
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> once
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> new theme has been added to the trunk is that not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone has commit privileges to the trunk. This makes the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> process
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maintenance a lot more time consuming for individual
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contributors as they have to rely on patches, updates,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> collaboration,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc, rather than just monitoring and maintaining their own
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> code.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This could certainly be discussed as themes are no blocking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> parts
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> long
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as *at least one works "perfectly"* (another way is to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> become committer), opinions?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think the way that Magento and Wordpress do it are good
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> examples.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> With
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wordpress, there is one "official" theme that is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> included with the install, but there are literally thousands
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of themes
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that are not maintained by Wordpress that they list on
>>>>>>>>>>>>> there site http://wordpress.org/extend/themes/, and now with
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the 3.0
>>>>>>>>>>>>> release you can even search for new themes and install them
>>>>>>>>>>>>> automatically from inside your Wordpress install. Doing it
>>>>>>>>>>>>> this way
>>>>>>>>>>>>> fosters wider community support by delegating maintenance of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> these themes to individual contributors rather than forcing it
>>>>>>>>>>>>> on a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> handful of committers and also allows developers to monetize
>>>>>>>>>>>>> there contributions by offering "premium" themes and plugins.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> In
>>>>>>>>>>>>> fact,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> there are many individuals and companies in the Wordpress
>>>>>>>>>>>>> community that make their living solely by selling themes and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> plugins.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> This furthers solidifies the base of support for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> project by offering a mid-tier option for someone who wants
>>>>>>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>> than OOTB but can't necessarily afford custom
>>>>>>>>>>>>> development.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> This makes good sense indeed. The only difference, I guess, is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> unfortunately the width of the audience. This does not mean
>>>>>>>>>>>> that we
>>>>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>>>>> not try...
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 6, 2011, at 8:17 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From my perspective, I don't see much chance in the Flat Grey
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visual
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme being abandoned. Enough people use it that it will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get the attention it needs. If Ryan isn't available to fix
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can fix it. If I'm not available, someone else could
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fix it, etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/6/2011 6:02 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your screen copies at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-4092
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> looks really great! Looking forward for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> implementation...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My concerns are that maybe you will not have enough time
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> later to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> keep
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> up with possible bugs or other issues. Look for instance
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happened
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to Bizzness Time
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-2398
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Even if it looks a bit old, we have a theme which works
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> great. Why
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taking any risks with it? Also I can't see any issues with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> having
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes. The more we have the better, I like to have the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> choice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Some
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (rare) people prefer to use old things, see games
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> machines or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> synthesizers for instance (I still love the DX-7 sound
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_DX7
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.vintagesynth.com/yamaha/dx7.php)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are any evolved version of Flat Grey yet. So this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1st
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> modern one still using the RTL mechanism introduced by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Adrian.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> choice the name!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> IMO I see no reason to have a "Flat Grey Evolution" theme.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> right, the Flat Grey theme hasn't had a visual update in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> years and it looks very dated. It needs some love. Let's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not add
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> another improved version, let's just improve the version
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have now. I think that is more efficient and more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> beneficial in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> long run.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As far as the tabs go, we can still keep a horizontal,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tab-like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> navigation without actually having the tabs look like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tabs.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because, the absolutely do look terrible displayed in two
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rows.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Adrian, I would be happy to collaborate with you on this.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think I have some ideas that could help. Email me
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> directly if you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to hash out some ideas outside of this mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> discussion.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Consequently, as far as new admin themes go, I guess I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can use
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an opportunity as well to drop a teaser about a new theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have been working on already for some time now that I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> honestly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hope
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will become the go-to theme for scalability and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> customization, and that will eventually replace the Flat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grey
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> altogether. The new theme scales down very well to 800x600
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and has minimal styling for maximum flexibility and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> customization.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stay tuned for more details in the next few days...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 3, 2011, at 11:04 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chiclet refers to a brand of chewing gum. The tabs look
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pieces
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of Chiclets chewing gum. They look terrible when they are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> displayed in two rows.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Mon, 1/3/11, Jacques Le Roux<
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> By "chiclet" main navigation style,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  you mean the tabs? Then I think we should keep Flat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grey as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it is (because there are advantages
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to have tabs) and create a Flat Grey evolution...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Adrian Crum"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was thinking we could use colors from the Apache logo
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the BizznessTime theme. I would also like to get
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rid of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  the "chiclet"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> main navigation style, and maybe have that menu in a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> collapsible left column.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Sun, 1/2/11, Sascha Rodekamp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Sascha
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rodekamp<[hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Discussion: Flat Grey Visual Theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: [hidden email],
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Jacques Le Roux"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  Date: Sunday, January 2, 2011, 2:27 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I really would appreciate to keep the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Flat Gray. But you're right it needs a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> few visual improvements.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me think about this, maybe somethink comes to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my mind
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  ..... :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  Cheers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2010/12/29 Jacques Le
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Roux<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> IIRW, it's the only really RTL capable. So a big YES
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to keep
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have no ideas though :/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Adrian Crum"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Flat Grey visual theme is getting old.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The current version of the theme is based on the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> original
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> look
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and feel of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OFBiz when I first joined the community - back in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2004.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Around
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Spring of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2007 I added some gradient gifs to make the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> original style
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> little more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interesting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After that, the visual theme was converted to a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> floating
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> flexible layout
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (to fit any size screen), it was made
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sight-impaired accessible (font size
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  can be changed), and it added support for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bi-directional
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  layout
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (for rtl
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> languages). Those design decisions were made by the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OFBiz
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> community and, in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my opinion, continue to make the Flat Grey theme the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fallback
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme when all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> else fails. It just works.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Despite its advantages, it looks dated. I would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> update
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it to make
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it more modern, but maintain its advantages over
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes. I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking it only needs css and gif file updates. The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> current
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> templates and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> javascripts would be maintained.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If anyone is interested, they are welcome to help
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> appreciate any suggestions or comments.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me know what you think.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sascha Rodekamp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lynx-Consulting GmbH
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Johanniskirchplatz 6
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> D-33615 Bielefeld
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.lynx.de
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

[Jacques Le Roux]

Yes, but it's not like that for the moment. And BJ complaint's are a reality for maybe more than one person...
And what if you want to override a theme (solution 2 below) to follow its progress?

Jacques

From: "Bruno Busco" <[hidden email]>

> The themes repository should not actually be a SVN repository but the
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBIZ/Visual+Themes+Gallery can
> be a right place to host them.
> Simpler, easier to access.
>
> -Bruno
>
> 2011/1/7 Jacques Le Roux <[hidden email]>
>
>> OK, that was the reason I had some concerns. Let's discuss it seriously...
>>
>> I think there are 2 ways to create a new themes from an existing one (a
>> brand new one is not a problem).
>>
>> Duplicate an OOTB existing one and peek an poke there (resourceValues in
>> ThemeNameThemeData.xml are all refering to locations in this theme)
>> pros: independent from changes in the original theme (no pb if the theme
>> dissapears, is changed for any reasons, etc.)
>> cons: independent from changes in the original theme (you can't benefit
>> from bug fixes, improvements, enhancements, etc.)
>>
>> Create a new theme by keeping references to an OOTB existing (some
>> resourceValues in ThemeNameThemeData.xml are still refering to locations in
>> this original theme)
>> As (almost) ever there are 2 faces to the coin, the pros and cons are
>> reversed from above.
>>
>> Which one are you using BJ? I guess the second. Else you would not have any
>> concerns
>>
>> Jacques
>>
>> From: "BJ Freeman" <[hidden email]>
>>
>>  Adrian i am sure as a business man you understand if it ain't broke don't
>>> fix it.
>>> Now if you talking about new themes I can agree, but no one has proposed
>>> any or give an price.
>>>
>>> =========================
>>> BJ Freeman
>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation  <
>>> http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>>> Specialtymarket.com  <http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>>
>>> Chat  Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>>
>>>
>>> Adrian Crum sent the following on 1/6/2011 3:23 PM:
>>>
>>>> That can go both ways. If your deployments depends upon the visual
>>>> themes being in the trunk, then perhaps you should fund their upkeep.
>>>>
>>>> -Adrian
>>>>
>>>> On 1/6/2011 2:58 PM, BJ Freeman wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> so you will be glad to fund the effort to do that.
>>>>> Time is money. and anything the effects the ROI needs to be considered,
>>>>> if the software is to be widely accepted.
>>>>>
>>>>> =========================
>>>>> BJ Freeman
>>>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation
>>>>> <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>>>>> Specialtymarket.com <http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>>>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>>>>
>>>>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ryan Foster sent the following on 1/6/2011 2:51 PM:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I completely agree with you BJ. Considerations definitely have to be
>>>>>> made when things are removed, especially if they are tied to the
>>>>>> framework. What is being discussed is whether to remove themes, which
>>>>>> can be hot-deployed from being maintained in the trunk. For future
>>>>>> releases, all you would need to do is manually add your themes, custom
>>>>>> or otherwise, to your production instance. If they are no longer tied
>>>>>> in svn to the trunk, they would not be effected by any updates or
>>>>>> releases.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jan 6, 2011, at 3:40 PM, BJ Freeman wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  so there will not be any more releases based on the trunk?
>>>>>>> I was speaking in the future when 11.04 or 12.04 happen.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> it is the disregard of those that actually use this software instead
>>>>>>> of just enjoy developing it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am a developer second and a business man first.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> basically you can add all you want but when you want to remove you
>>>>>>> must consider those that have counted on what was provided.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> =========================
>>>>>>> BJ Freeman
>>>>>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier
>>>>>>> Automation<
>>>>>>> http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>>>>>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bruno Busco sent the following on 1/6/2011 2:33 PM:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The theme will still be present in the 10.04 releases.
>>>>>>>> No production servers should rely on trunk.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -Bruno
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2011/1/6 BJ Freeman<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  I have one that uses the flat grey as default
>>>>>>>>> so if I do an update from the svn the flat grey will and my
>>>>>>>>> customization
>>>>>>>>> disappear.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> my sas uses all those in the themes, with my modification.
>>>>>>>>> they will be removed. when the svn update is run.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> those are just a few examples.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> =========================
>>>>>>>>> BJ Freeman
>>>>>>>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation<
>>>>>>>>> http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>>>>>>>>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>>>>>>>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Bruno Busco sent the following on 1/6/2011 2:00 PM:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I am sorry, BJ, I do not see your point.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> What could be the issue?
>>>>>>>>>> We will have less themes to maintain in the trunk (just Flat Grey,
>>>>>>>>>> Tomahawk,
>>>>>>>>>> Default and Multiflex).
>>>>>>>>>> We will have more people that will be able to maintain additional
>>>>>>>>>> themes
>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>> the Themes Gallery.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Production servers will have each one its selected theme (one of
>>>>>>>>>> the OOTB,
>>>>>>>>>> one of the Themes Gallery or a customized version of them).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -Bruno
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 2011/1/6 BJ Freeman<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> how about those that are using ofbiz for SAS and will have many
>>>>>>>>>> themes
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>> their clients.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Bruno Busco sent the following on 1/6/2011 12:51 PM:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, having more than one theme in the trunk was originally
>>>>>>>>>>> accepted in
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> order to use and show the visual theme selection feature OOTB.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Actually Bluelight, Dropping Crumbs and Tomahawk are one the
>>>>>>>>>>>> evolution
>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>> the other.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Each time we decided to create a new theme instead of replacing
>>>>>>>>>>>> the one
>>>>>>>>>>>> existing just to avoid problems to users.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> My proposal is to remove Bluelight, Dropping Crumbs and
>>>>>>>>>>>> BizznessTime
>>>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>>> the trunk and put them in a separate themes repository as
>>>>>>>>>>>> suggested by
>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Remove the actual version of the Flat Grey from the trunk and
>>>>>>>>>>>> put it in
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> themes repository.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Improve the Flat Grey theme in the trunk with the work you guys
>>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>>> doing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> In this way we will have in the trunk two themes for the backend
>>>>>>>>>>>> (Actual
>>>>>>>>>>>> FlatGrey and Tomahawk) and two themes for the ecommerce (Default
>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> Multiflex).
>>>>>>>>>>>> In the themes repository there will be Bluelight, Dropping
>>>>>>>>>>>> Crumbs,
>>>>>>>>>>>> BizznessTime and the actual FlatGrey.
>>>>>>>>>>>> It could be a nice start for the theme repository (and gallery)
>>>>>>>>>>>> start.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> -Bruno
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 2011/1/6 Jacques Le Roux<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> inline...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 6, 2011, at 11:38 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  Jacques,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I understand your concerns about support, and your thoughts
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes has some valid points. However, in regards to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BizznessTime theme, I never really intended for that to be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "my"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anyway. I always viewed it as a community theme as that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was it's original intent and it was truly a collaborative
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> effort to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> build it between myself, my colleagues at HotWax, BrainFood,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and other members of the the OFBiz community.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Right, sorry for that Ryan. It's only because I know you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "fathers" (the most important I guess) and helped much
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at the beginning, my apologies.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> At any rate, my time issues and focus have shifted
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> significantly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the last few months as I have left HotWax and gone into
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> independent consulting and freelance development. I plan on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> much more active role in the community in the months and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> years ahead.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's really a good, very good news!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As far as theme contributions go, I wonder if maybe it would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> good
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> idea to have a theme repo outside of the trunk that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> individuals could commit to? The problem with theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maintenance
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> once
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> new theme has been added to the trunk is that not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone has commit privileges to the trunk. This makes the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> process
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maintenance a lot more time consuming for individual
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contributors as they have to rely on patches, updates,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> collaboration,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc, rather than just monitoring and maintaining their own
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> code.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This could certainly be discussed as themes are no blocking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> parts
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> long
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as *at least one works "perfectly"* (another way is to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> become committer), opinions?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think the way that Magento and Wordpress do it are good
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> examples.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wordpress, there is one "official" theme that is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> included with the install, but there are literally thousands
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of themes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that are not maintained by Wordpress that they list on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there site http://wordpress.org/extend/themes/, and now with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the 3.0
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> release you can even search for new themes and install them
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> automatically from inside your Wordpress install. Doing it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this way
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fosters wider community support by delegating maintenance of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> these themes to individual contributors rather than forcing it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> handful of committers and also allows developers to monetize
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there contributions by offering "premium" themes and plugins.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fact,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there are many individuals and companies in the Wordpress
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> community that make their living solely by selling themes and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> plugins.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This furthers solidifies the base of support for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> project by offering a mid-tier option for someone who wants
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than OOTB but can't necessarily afford custom
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> development.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This makes good sense indeed. The only difference, I guess, is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> unfortunately the width of the audience. This does not mean
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that we
>>>>>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>>>>>> not try...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 6, 2011, at 8:17 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From my perspective, I don't see much chance in the Flat Grey
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visual
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme being abandoned. Enough people use it that it will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get the attention it needs. If Ryan isn't available to fix
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can fix it. If I'm not available, someone else could
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fix it, etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/6/2011 6:02 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your screen copies at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-4092
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> looks really great! Looking forward for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> implementation...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My concerns are that maybe you will not have enough time
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> later to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> keep
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> up with possible bugs or other issues. Look for instance
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happened
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to Bizzness Time
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-2398
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Even if it looks a bit old, we have a theme which works
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> great. Why
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taking any risks with it? Also I can't see any issues with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> having
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes. The more we have the better, I like to have the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> choice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Some
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (rare) people prefer to use old things, see games
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> machines or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> synthesizers for instance (I still love the DX-7 sound
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_DX7
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.vintagesynth.com/yamaha/dx7.php)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are any evolved version of Flat Grey yet. So this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1st
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> modern one still using the RTL mechanism introduced by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Adrian.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> choice the name!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> IMO I see no reason to have a "Flat Grey Evolution" theme.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> right, the Flat Grey theme hasn't had a visual update in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> years and it looks very dated. It needs some love. Let's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not add
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> another improved version, let's just improve the version
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have now. I think that is more efficient and more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> beneficial in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> long run.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As far as the tabs go, we can still keep a horizontal,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tab-like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> navigation without actually having the tabs look like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tabs.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because, the absolutely do look terrible displayed in two
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rows.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Adrian, I would be happy to collaborate with you on this.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think I have some ideas that could help. Email me
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> directly if you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to hash out some ideas outside of this mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> discussion.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Consequently, as far as new admin themes go, I guess I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can use
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an opportunity as well to drop a teaser about a new theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have been working on already for some time now that I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> honestly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hope
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will become the go-to theme for scalability and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> customization, and that will eventually replace the Flat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grey
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> altogether. The new theme scales down very well to 800x600
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and has minimal styling for maximum flexibility and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> customization.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stay tuned for more details in the next few days...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 3, 2011, at 11:04 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chiclet refers to a brand of chewing gum. The tabs look
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pieces
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of Chiclets chewing gum. They look terrible when they are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> displayed in two rows.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Mon, 1/3/11, Jacques Le Roux<
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> By "chiclet" main navigation style,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  you mean the tabs? Then I think we should keep Flat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grey as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it is (because there are advantages
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to have tabs) and create a Flat Grey evolution...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Adrian Crum"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was thinking we could use colors from the Apache logo
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the BizznessTime theme. I would also like to get
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rid of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  the "chiclet"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> main navigation style, and maybe have that menu in a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> collapsible left column.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Sun, 1/2/11, Sascha Rodekamp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Sascha
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rodekamp<[hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Discussion: Flat Grey Visual Theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: [hidden email],
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Jacques Le Roux"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  Date: Sunday, January 2, 2011, 2:27 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I really would appreciate to keep the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Flat Gray. But you're right it needs a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> few visual improvements.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me think about this, maybe somethink comes to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my mind
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  ..... :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  Cheers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2010/12/29 Jacques Le
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Roux<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> IIRW, it's the only really RTL capable. So a big YES
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to keep
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have no ideas though :/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Adrian Crum"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Flat Grey visual theme is getting old.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The current version of the theme is based on the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> original
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> look
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and feel of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OFBiz when I first joined the community - back in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2004.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Around
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Spring of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2007 I added some gradient gifs to make the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> original style
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> little more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interesting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After that, the visual theme was converted to a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> floating
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> flexible layout
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (to fit any size screen), it was made
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sight-impaired accessible (font size
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  can be changed), and it added support for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bi-directional
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  layout
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (for rtl
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> languages). Those design decisions were made by the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OFBiz
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> community and, in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my opinion, continue to make the Flat Grey theme the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fallback
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme when all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> else fails. It just works.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Despite its advantages, it looks dated. I would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> update
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it to make
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it more modern, but maintain its advantages over
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes. I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking it only needs css and gif file updates. The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> current
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> templates and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> javascripts would be maintained.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If anyone is interested, they are welcome to help
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> appreciate any suggestions or comments.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me know what you think.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sascha Rodekamp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lynx-Consulting GmbH
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Johanniskirchplatz 6
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> D-33615 Bielefeld
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.lynx.de
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>

[BJ Freeman]

more the second.
however I am reacting more to a pattern change.
for instance ecommerce was downgraded from a main app to a specialpurpose.
I was not removed. the architecture lets it be moved with out any code
changes to custom components already developed against it.

related to themes, and multitenacy, not every user is going to want the
same theme so the themes folder will be filled with `100's eventually.

the script I started,
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-3490
is getting fancier.
I can see templates for functionality of themes instead of the themes
themselves.
the seup app reads the data templateThemeData.xml and modifies it on the
fly to the way the customer wants it.
This way we don't have a lot of inactive themes and all the
possibilities are in the template data.
this is a flexible change once the Setup structure is in place.
see
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-635
comment - 05/May/09 02:14 PM


=========================
BJ Freeman
Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation  <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
Specialtymarket.com  <http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist

Chat  Y! messenger: bjfr33man
Jacques Le Roux sent the following on 1/6/2011 11:15 PM:

> OK, that was the reason I had some concerns. Let's discuss it seriously...
>
> I think there are 2 ways to create a new themes from an existing one (a
> brand new one is not a problem).
>
> Duplicate an OOTB existing one and peek an poke there (resourceValues in
> ThemeNameThemeData.xml are all refering to locations in this theme)
> pros: independent from changes in the original theme (no pb if the theme
> dissapears, is changed for any reasons, etc.)
> cons: independent from changes in the original theme (you can't benefit
> from bug fixes, improvements, enhancements, etc.)
>
> Create a new theme by keeping references to an OOTB existing (some
> resourceValues in ThemeNameThemeData.xml are still refering to locations
> in this original theme)
> As (almost) ever there are 2 faces to the coin, the pros and cons are
> reversed from above.
>
> Which one are you using BJ? I guess the second. Else you would not have
> any concerns
>
> Jacques
>
> From: "BJ Freeman" <[hidden email]>
>> Adrian i am sure as a business man you understand if it ain't broke
>> don't fix it.
>> Now if you talking about new themes I can agree, but no one has
>> proposed any or give an price.
>>
>> =========================
>> BJ Freeman
>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation
>> <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>> Specialtymarket.com <http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>
>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>
>>
>> Adrian Crum sent the following on 1/6/2011 3:23 PM:
>>> That can go both ways. If your deployments depends upon the visual
>>> themes being in the trunk, then perhaps you should fund their upkeep.
>>>
>>> -Adrian
>>>
>>> On 1/6/2011 2:58 PM, BJ Freeman wrote:
>>>> so you will be glad to fund the effort to do that.
>>>> Time is money. and anything the effects the ROI needs to be considered,
>>>> if the software is to be widely accepted.
>>>>
>>>> =========================
>>>> BJ Freeman
>>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation
>>>> <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>>>> Specialtymarket.com <http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>>>
>>>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ryan Foster sent the following on 1/6/2011 2:51 PM:
>>>>> I completely agree with you BJ. Considerations definitely have to be
>>>>> made when things are removed, especially if they are tied to the
>>>>> framework. What is being discussed is whether to remove themes, which
>>>>> can be hot-deployed from being maintained in the trunk. For future
>>>>> releases, all you would need to do is manually add your themes, custom
>>>>> or otherwise, to your production instance. If they are no longer tied
>>>>> in svn to the trunk, they would not be effected by any updates or
>>>>> releases.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 6, 2011, at 3:40 PM, BJ Freeman wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> so there will not be any more releases based on the trunk?
>>>>>> I was speaking in the future when 11.04 or 12.04 happen.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> it is the disregard of those that actually use this software instead
>>>>>> of just enjoy developing it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am a developer second and a business man first.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> basically you can add all you want but when you want to remove you
>>>>>> must consider those that have counted on what was provided.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> =========================
>>>>>> BJ Freeman
>>>>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier
>>>>>> Automation<http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>>>>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bruno Busco sent the following on 1/6/2011 2:33 PM:
>>>>>>> The theme will still be present in the 10.04 releases.
>>>>>>> No production servers should rely on trunk.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Bruno
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2011/1/6 BJ Freeman<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have one that uses the flat grey as default
>>>>>>>> so if I do an update from the svn the flat grey will and my
>>>>>>>> customization
>>>>>>>> disappear.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> my sas uses all those in the themes, with my modification.
>>>>>>>> they will be removed. when the svn update is run.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> those are just a few examples.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> =========================
>>>>>>>> BJ Freeman
>>>>>>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation<
>>>>>>>> http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>>>>>>>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>>>>>>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bruno Busco sent the following on 1/6/2011 2:00 PM:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I am sorry, BJ, I do not see your point.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What could be the issue?
>>>>>>>>> We will have less themes to maintain in the trunk (just Flat Grey,
>>>>>>>>> Tomahawk,
>>>>>>>>> Default and Multiflex).
>>>>>>>>> We will have more people that will be able to maintain additional
>>>>>>>>> themes
>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>> the Themes Gallery.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Production servers will have each one its selected theme (one of
>>>>>>>>> the OOTB,
>>>>>>>>> one of the Themes Gallery or a customized version of them).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -Bruno
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 2011/1/6 BJ Freeman<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> how about those that are using ofbiz for SAS and will have many
>>>>>>>>> themes
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> their clients.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Bruno Busco sent the following on 1/6/2011 12:51 PM:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Yes, having more than one theme in the trunk was originally
>>>>>>>>>> accepted in
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> order to use and show the visual theme selection feature OOTB.
>>>>>>>>>>> Actually Bluelight, Dropping Crumbs and Tomahawk are one the
>>>>>>>>>>> evolution
>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>> the other.
>>>>>>>>>>> Each time we decided to create a new theme instead of replacing
>>>>>>>>>>> the one
>>>>>>>>>>> existing just to avoid problems to users.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> My proposal is to remove Bluelight, Dropping Crumbs and
>>>>>>>>>>> BizznessTime
>>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>> the trunk and put them in a separate themes repository as
>>>>>>>>>>> suggested by
>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan.
>>>>>>>>>>> Remove the actual version of the Flat Grey from the trunk and
>>>>>>>>>>> put it in
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> themes repository.
>>>>>>>>>>> Improve the Flat Grey theme in the trunk with the work you guys
>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>> doing.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> In this way we will have in the trunk two themes for the backend
>>>>>>>>>>> (Actual
>>>>>>>>>>> FlatGrey and Tomahawk) and two themes for the ecommerce (Default
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> Multiflex).
>>>>>>>>>>> In the themes repository there will be Bluelight, Dropping
>>>>>>>>>>> Crumbs,
>>>>>>>>>>> BizznessTime and the actual FlatGrey.
>>>>>>>>>>> It could be a nice start for the theme repository (and gallery)
>>>>>>>>>>> start.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -Bruno
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> 2011/1/6 Jacques Le Roux<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> inline...
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 6, 2011, at 11:38 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I understand your concerns about support, and your thoughts
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes has some valid points. However, in regards to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BizznessTime theme, I never really intended for that to be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "my"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anyway. I always viewed it as a community theme as that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was it's original intent and it was truly a collaborative
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> effort to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> build it between myself, my colleagues at HotWax, BrainFood,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and other members of the the OFBiz community.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Right, sorry for that Ryan. It's only because I know you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "fathers" (the most important I guess) and helped much
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at the beginning, my apologies.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> At any rate, my time issues and focus have shifted
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> significantly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the last few months as I have left HotWax and gone into
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> independent consulting and freelance development. I plan on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> much more active role in the community in the months and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> years ahead.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's really a good, very good news!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As far as theme contributions go, I wonder if maybe it would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> good
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> idea to have a theme repo outside of the trunk that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> individuals could commit to? The problem with theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maintenance
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> once
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> new theme has been added to the trunk is that not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone has commit privileges to the trunk. This makes the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> process
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maintenance a lot more time consuming for individual
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contributors as they have to rely on patches, updates,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> collaboration,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc, rather than just monitoring and maintaining their own
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> code.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This could certainly be discussed as themes are no blocking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> parts
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> long
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as *at least one works "perfectly"* (another way is to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> become committer), opinions?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think the way that Magento and Wordpress do it are good
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> examples.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> With
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wordpress, there is one "official" theme that is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> included with the install, but there are literally thousands
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of themes
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that are not maintained by Wordpress that they list on
>>>>>>>>>>>>> there site http://wordpress.org/extend/themes/, and now with
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the 3.0
>>>>>>>>>>>>> release you can even search for new themes and install them
>>>>>>>>>>>>> automatically from inside your Wordpress install. Doing it
>>>>>>>>>>>>> this way
>>>>>>>>>>>>> fosters wider community support by delegating maintenance of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> these themes to individual contributors rather than forcing it
>>>>>>>>>>>>> on a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> handful of committers and also allows developers to monetize
>>>>>>>>>>>>> there contributions by offering "premium" themes and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> plugins. In
>>>>>>>>>>>>> fact,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> there are many individuals and companies in the Wordpress
>>>>>>>>>>>>> community that make their living solely by selling themes and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> plugins.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> This furthers solidifies the base of support for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> project by offering a mid-tier option for someone who wants
>>>>>>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>> than OOTB but can't necessarily afford custom
>>>>>>>>>>>>> development.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> This makes good sense indeed. The only difference, I guess, is
>>>>>>>>>>>> unfortunately the width of the audience. This does not mean
>>>>>>>>>>>> that we
>>>>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>>>>> not try...
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 6, 2011, at 8:17 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From my perspective, I don't see much chance in the Flat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grey
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visual
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme being abandoned. Enough people use it that it will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get the attention it needs. If Ryan isn't available to fix
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can fix it. If I'm not available, someone else could
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fix it, etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/6/2011 6:02 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your screen copies at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-4092
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> looks really great! Looking forward for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> implementation...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My concerns are that maybe you will not have enough time
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> later to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> keep
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> up with possible bugs or other issues. Look for instance
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happened
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to Bizzness Time
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-2398
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Even if it looks a bit old, we have a theme which works
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> great. Why
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taking any risks with it? Also I can't see any issues with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> having
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes. The more we have the better, I like to have the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> choice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Some
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (rare) people prefer to use old things, see games
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> machines or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> synthesizers for instance (I still love the DX-7 sound
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_DX7
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.vintagesynth.com/yamaha/dx7.php)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are any evolved version of Flat Grey yet. So this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1st
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> modern one still using the RTL mechanism introduced by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Adrian.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> choice the name!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> IMO I see no reason to have a "Flat Grey Evolution" theme.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> right, the Flat Grey theme hasn't had a visual update in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> years and it looks very dated. It needs some love. Let's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not add
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> another improved version, let's just improve the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> version we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have now. I think that is more efficient and more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> beneficial in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> long run.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As far as the tabs go, we can still keep a horizontal,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tab-like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> navigation without actually having the tabs look like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tabs.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because, the absolutely do look terrible displayed in two
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rows.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Adrian, I would be happy to collaborate with you on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think I have some ideas that could help. Email me
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> directly if you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to hash out some ideas outside of this mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> discussion.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Consequently, as far as new admin themes go, I guess I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can use
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an opportunity as well to drop a teaser about a new theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have been working on already for some time now that I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> honestly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hope
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will become the go-to theme for scalability and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> customization, and that will eventually replace the Flat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grey
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> altogether. The new theme scales down very well to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 800x600
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and has minimal styling for maximum flexibility and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> customization.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stay tuned for more details in the next few days...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 3, 2011, at 11:04 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chiclet refers to a brand of chewing gum. The tabs look
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pieces
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of Chiclets chewing gum. They look terrible when they are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> displayed in two rows.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Mon, 1/3/11, Jacques Le Roux<
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> By "chiclet" main navigation style,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you mean the tabs? Then I think we should keep Flat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grey as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it is (because there are advantages
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to have tabs) and create a Flat Grey evolution...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Adrian Crum"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was thinking we could use colors from the Apache logo
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the BizznessTime theme. I would also like to get
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rid of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the "chiclet"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> main navigation style, and maybe have that menu in a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> collapsible left column.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Sun, 1/2/11, Sascha Rodekamp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Sascha
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rodekamp<[hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Discussion: Flat Grey Visual Theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: [hidden email],
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Jacques Le Roux"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Sunday, January 2, 2011, 2:27 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I really would appreciate to keep the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Flat Gray. But you're right it needs a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> few visual improvements.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me think about this, maybe somethink comes to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my mind
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ..... :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2010/12/29 Jacques Le
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Roux<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> IIRW, it's the only really RTL capable. So a big YES
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to keep
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have no ideas though :/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Adrian Crum"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Flat Grey visual theme is getting old.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The current version of the theme is based on the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> original
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> look
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and feel of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OFBiz when I first joined the community - back in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2004.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Around
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Spring of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2007 I added some gradient gifs to make the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> original style
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> little more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interesting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After that, the visual theme was converted to a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> floating
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> flexible layout
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (to fit any size screen), it was made
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sight-impaired accessible (font size
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can be changed), and it added support for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bi-directional
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> layout
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (for rtl
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> languages). Those design decisions were made by the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OFBiz
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> community and, in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my opinion, continue to make the Flat Grey theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fallback
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme when all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> else fails. It just works.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Despite its advantages, it looks dated. I would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> update
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it to make
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it more modern, but maintain its advantages over
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes. I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking it only needs css and gif file updates.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> current
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> templates and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> javascripts would be maintained.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If anyone is interested, they are welcome to help
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> appreciate any suggestions or comments.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me know what you think.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sascha Rodekamp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lynx-Consulting GmbH
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Johanniskirchplatz 6
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> D-33615 Bielefeld
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.lynx.de
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>

[Jacques Le Roux]

From: "BJ Freeman" <[hidden email]>
> more the second.
> however I am reacting more to a pattern change.
> for instance ecommerce was downgraded from a main app to a specialpurpose.
> I was not removed. the architecture lets it be moved with out any code
> changes to custom components already developed against it.

Yes, I completly understand your point... And I guess you are not alone in this situation...
 

> related to themes, and multitenacy, not every user is going to want the
> same theme so the themes folder will be filled with `100's eventually.
>
> the script I started,
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-3490
> is getting fancier.
> I can see templates for functionality of themes instead of the themes
> themselves.
> the seup app reads the data templateThemeData.xml and modifies it on the
> fly to the way the customer wants it.
> This way we don't have a lot of inactive themes and all the
> possibilities are in the template data.
> this is a flexible change once the Setup structure is in place.
> see
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-635
> comment - 05/May/09 02:14 PM

As I planned initially, to be discussed...

Jacques
 

>
> =========================
> BJ Freeman
> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation  <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
> Specialtymarket.com  <http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>
> Chat  Y! messenger: bjfr33man
> Jacques Le Roux sent the following on 1/6/2011 11:15 PM:
>
>> OK, that was the reason I had some concerns. Let's discuss it seriously...
>>
>> I think there are 2 ways to create a new themes from an existing one (a
>> brand new one is not a problem).
>>
>> Duplicate an OOTB existing one and peek an poke there (resourceValues in
>> ThemeNameThemeData.xml are all refering to locations in this theme)
>> pros: independent from changes in the original theme (no pb if the theme
>> dissapears, is changed for any reasons, etc.)
>> cons: independent from changes in the original theme (you can't benefit
>> from bug fixes, improvements, enhancements, etc.)
>>
>> Create a new theme by keeping references to an OOTB existing (some
>> resourceValues in ThemeNameThemeData.xml are still refering to locations
>> in this original theme)
>> As (almost) ever there are 2 faces to the coin, the pros and cons are
>> reversed from above.
>>
>> Which one are you using BJ? I guess the second. Else you would not have
>> any concerns
>>
>> Jacques
>>
>> From: "BJ Freeman" <[hidden email]>
>>> Adrian i am sure as a business man you understand if it ain't broke
>>> don't fix it.
>>> Now if you talking about new themes I can agree, but no one has
>>> proposed any or give an price.
>>>
>>> =========================
>>> BJ Freeman
>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation
>>> <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>>> Specialtymarket.com <http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>>
>>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>>
>>>
>>> Adrian Crum sent the following on 1/6/2011 3:23 PM:
>>>> That can go both ways. If your deployments depends upon the visual
>>>> themes being in the trunk, then perhaps you should fund their upkeep.
>>>>
>>>> -Adrian
>>>>
>>>> On 1/6/2011 2:58 PM, BJ Freeman wrote:
>>>>> so you will be glad to fund the effort to do that.
>>>>> Time is money. and anything the effects the ROI needs to be considered,
>>>>> if the software is to be widely accepted.
>>>>>
>>>>> =========================
>>>>> BJ Freeman
>>>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation
>>>>> <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>>>>> Specialtymarket.com <http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>>>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>>>>
>>>>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ryan Foster sent the following on 1/6/2011 2:51 PM:
>>>>>> I completely agree with you BJ. Considerations definitely have to be
>>>>>> made when things are removed, especially if they are tied to the
>>>>>> framework. What is being discussed is whether to remove themes, which
>>>>>> can be hot-deployed from being maintained in the trunk. For future
>>>>>> releases, all you would need to do is manually add your themes, custom
>>>>>> or otherwise, to your production instance. If they are no longer tied
>>>>>> in svn to the trunk, they would not be effected by any updates or
>>>>>> releases.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jan 6, 2011, at 3:40 PM, BJ Freeman wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> so there will not be any more releases based on the trunk?
>>>>>>> I was speaking in the future when 11.04 or 12.04 happen.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> it is the disregard of those that actually use this software instead
>>>>>>> of just enjoy developing it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am a developer second and a business man first.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> basically you can add all you want but when you want to remove you
>>>>>>> must consider those that have counted on what was provided.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> =========================
>>>>>>> BJ Freeman
>>>>>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier
>>>>>>> Automation<http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>>>>>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bruno Busco sent the following on 1/6/2011 2:33 PM:
>>>>>>>> The theme will still be present in the 10.04 releases.
>>>>>>>> No production servers should rely on trunk.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -Bruno
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2011/1/6 BJ Freeman<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I have one that uses the flat grey as default
>>>>>>>>> so if I do an update from the svn the flat grey will and my
>>>>>>>>> customization
>>>>>>>>> disappear.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> my sas uses all those in the themes, with my modification.
>>>>>>>>> they will be removed. when the svn update is run.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> those are just a few examples.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> =========================
>>>>>>>>> BJ Freeman
>>>>>>>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation<
>>>>>>>>> http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>>>>>>>>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>>>>>>>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Bruno Busco sent the following on 1/6/2011 2:00 PM:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I am sorry, BJ, I do not see your point.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> What could be the issue?
>>>>>>>>>> We will have less themes to maintain in the trunk (just Flat Grey,
>>>>>>>>>> Tomahawk,
>>>>>>>>>> Default and Multiflex).
>>>>>>>>>> We will have more people that will be able to maintain additional
>>>>>>>>>> themes
>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>> the Themes Gallery.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Production servers will have each one its selected theme (one of
>>>>>>>>>> the OOTB,
>>>>>>>>>> one of the Themes Gallery or a customized version of them).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -Bruno
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 2011/1/6 BJ Freeman<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> how about those that are using ofbiz for SAS and will have many
>>>>>>>>>> themes
>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>> their clients.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Bruno Busco sent the following on 1/6/2011 12:51 PM:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, having more than one theme in the trunk was originally
>>>>>>>>>>> accepted in
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> order to use and show the visual theme selection feature OOTB.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Actually Bluelight, Dropping Crumbs and Tomahawk are one the
>>>>>>>>>>>> evolution
>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>> the other.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Each time we decided to create a new theme instead of replacing
>>>>>>>>>>>> the one
>>>>>>>>>>>> existing just to avoid problems to users.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> My proposal is to remove Bluelight, Dropping Crumbs and
>>>>>>>>>>>> BizznessTime
>>>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>>> the trunk and put them in a separate themes repository as
>>>>>>>>>>>> suggested by
>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Remove the actual version of the Flat Grey from the trunk and
>>>>>>>>>>>> put it in
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> themes repository.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Improve the Flat Grey theme in the trunk with the work you guys
>>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>>> doing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> In this way we will have in the trunk two themes for the backend
>>>>>>>>>>>> (Actual
>>>>>>>>>>>> FlatGrey and Tomahawk) and two themes for the ecommerce (Default
>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> Multiflex).
>>>>>>>>>>>> In the themes repository there will be Bluelight, Dropping
>>>>>>>>>>>> Crumbs,
>>>>>>>>>>>> BizznessTime and the actual FlatGrey.
>>>>>>>>>>>> It could be a nice start for the theme repository (and gallery)
>>>>>>>>>>>> start.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> -Bruno
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 2011/1/6 Jacques Le Roux<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> inline...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 6, 2011, at 11:38 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I understand your concerns about support, and your thoughts
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes has some valid points. However, in regards to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BizznessTime theme, I never really intended for that to be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "my"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anyway. I always viewed it as a community theme as that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was it's original intent and it was truly a collaborative
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> effort to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> build it between myself, my colleagues at HotWax, BrainFood,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and other members of the the OFBiz community.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Right, sorry for that Ryan. It's only because I know you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "fathers" (the most important I guess) and helped much
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at the beginning, my apologies.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> At any rate, my time issues and focus have shifted
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> significantly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the last few months as I have left HotWax and gone into
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> independent consulting and freelance development. I plan on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> much more active role in the community in the months and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> years ahead.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's really a good, very good news!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As far as theme contributions go, I wonder if maybe it would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> good
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> idea to have a theme repo outside of the trunk that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> individuals could commit to? The problem with theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maintenance
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> once
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> new theme has been added to the trunk is that not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone has commit privileges to the trunk. This makes the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> process
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maintenance a lot more time consuming for individual
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contributors as they have to rely on patches, updates,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> collaboration,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc, rather than just monitoring and maintaining their own
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> code.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This could certainly be discussed as themes are no blocking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> parts
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> long
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as *at least one works "perfectly"* (another way is to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> become committer), opinions?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think the way that Magento and Wordpress do it are good
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> examples.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wordpress, there is one "official" theme that is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> included with the install, but there are literally thousands
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of themes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that are not maintained by Wordpress that they list on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there site http://wordpress.org/extend/themes/, and now with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the 3.0
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> release you can even search for new themes and install them
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> automatically from inside your Wordpress install. Doing it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this way
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fosters wider community support by delegating maintenance of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> these themes to individual contributors rather than forcing it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> handful of committers and also allows developers to monetize
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there contributions by offering "premium" themes and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> plugins. In
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fact,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there are many individuals and companies in the Wordpress
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> community that make their living solely by selling themes and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> plugins.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This furthers solidifies the base of support for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> project by offering a mid-tier option for someone who wants
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than OOTB but can't necessarily afford custom
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> development.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This makes good sense indeed. The only difference, I guess, is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> unfortunately the width of the audience. This does not mean
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that we
>>>>>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>>>>>> not try...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 6, 2011, at 8:17 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From my perspective, I don't see much chance in the Flat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grey
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visual
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme being abandoned. Enough people use it that it will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get the attention it needs. If Ryan isn't available to fix
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can fix it. If I'm not available, someone else could
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fix it, etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/6/2011 6:02 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your screen copies at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-4092
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> looks really great! Looking forward for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> implementation...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My concerns are that maybe you will not have enough time
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> later to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> keep
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> up with possible bugs or other issues. Look for instance
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happened
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to Bizzness Time
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-2398
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Even if it looks a bit old, we have a theme which works
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> great. Why
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taking any risks with it? Also I can't see any issues with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> having
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes. The more we have the better, I like to have the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> choice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Some
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (rare) people prefer to use old things, see games
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> machines or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> synthesizers for instance (I still love the DX-7 sound
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_DX7
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.vintagesynth.com/yamaha/dx7.php)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are any evolved version of Flat Grey yet. So this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1st
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> modern one still using the RTL mechanism introduced by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Adrian.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> choice the name!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> IMO I see no reason to have a "Flat Grey Evolution" theme.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> right, the Flat Grey theme hasn't had a visual update in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> years and it looks very dated. It needs some love. Let's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not add
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> another improved version, let's just improve the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> version we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have now. I think that is more efficient and more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> beneficial in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> long run.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As far as the tabs go, we can still keep a horizontal,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tab-like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> navigation without actually having the tabs look like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tabs.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because, the absolutely do look terrible displayed in two
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rows.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Adrian, I would be happy to collaborate with you on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think I have some ideas that could help. Email me
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> directly if you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to hash out some ideas outside of this mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> discussion.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Consequently, as far as new admin themes go, I guess I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can use
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an opportunity as well to drop a teaser about a new theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have been working on already for some time now that I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> honestly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hope
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will become the go-to theme for scalability and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> customization, and that will eventually replace the Flat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grey
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> altogether. The new theme scales down very well to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 800x600
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and has minimal styling for maximum flexibility and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> customization.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stay tuned for more details in the next few days...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 3, 2011, at 11:04 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chiclet refers to a brand of chewing gum. The tabs look
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pieces
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of Chiclets chewing gum. They look terrible when they are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> displayed in two rows.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Mon, 1/3/11, Jacques Le Roux<
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> By "chiclet" main navigation style,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you mean the tabs? Then I think we should keep Flat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grey as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it is (because there are advantages
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to have tabs) and create a Flat Grey evolution...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Adrian Crum"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was thinking we could use colors from the Apache logo
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the BizznessTime theme. I would also like to get
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rid of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the "chiclet"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> main navigation style, and maybe have that menu in a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> collapsible left column.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Sun, 1/2/11, Sascha Rodekamp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Sascha
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rodekamp<[hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Discussion: Flat Grey Visual Theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: [hidden email],
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Jacques Le Roux"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Sunday, January 2, 2011, 2:27 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I really would appreciate to keep the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Flat Gray. But you're right it needs a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> few visual improvements.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me think about this, maybe somethink comes to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my mind
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ..... :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2010/12/29 Jacques Le
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Roux<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> IIRW, it's the only really RTL capable. So a big YES
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to keep
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have no ideas though :/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Adrian Crum"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Flat Grey visual theme is getting old.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The current version of the theme is based on the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> original
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> look
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and feel of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OFBiz when I first joined the community - back in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2004.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Around
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Spring of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2007 I added some gradient gifs to make the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> original style
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> little more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interesting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After that, the visual theme was converted to a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> floating
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> flexible layout
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (to fit any size screen), it was made
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sight-impaired accessible (font size
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can be changed), and it added support for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bi-directional
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> layout
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (for rtl
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> languages). Those design decisions were made by the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OFBiz
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> community and, in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my opinion, continue to make the Flat Grey theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fallback
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme when all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> else fails. It just works.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Despite its advantages, it looks dated. I would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> update
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it to make
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it more modern, but maintain its advantages over
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes. I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking it only needs css and gif file updates.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> current
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> templates and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> javascripts would be maintained.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If anyone is interested, they are welcome to help
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> appreciate any suggestions or comments.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me know what you think.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sascha Rodekamp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lynx-Consulting GmbH
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Johanniskirchplatz 6
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> D-33615 Bielefeld
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.lynx.de
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>

[Bruno Busco]

Dependencies between themes do not allow modular selection, distribution and
installation.
Please give a look to these web sites:

http://www.templatemonster.com/magento-themes.php
http://wordpress.org/extend/themes/
http://drupal.org/project/Themes

they are all examples of how to maintain themes database.

In a production installation one can choose between:
- using one of the OOTB themes as it is
- use one of the themes from the theme gallery as it is
- start from one of the OOTB or gallery themes to build a new customized one

Moving a theme from OOTB to the theme gallery should not be an issue. It
simply slightly changes the way how a production server is updated.

-Bruno

2011/1/7 Jacques Le Roux <[hidden email]>

> From: "BJ Freeman" <[hidden email]>
>
>> more the second.
>>
>> however I am reacting more to a pattern change.
>> for instance ecommerce was downgraded from a main app to a specialpurpose.
>> I was not removed. the architecture lets it be moved with out any code
>> changes to custom components already developed against it.
>>
>
> Yes, I completly understand your point... And I guess you are not alone in
> this situation...
>
>
>  related to themes, and multitenacy, not every user is going to want the
>> same theme so the themes folder will be filled with `100's eventually.
>>
>> the script I started,
>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-3490
>> is getting fancier.
>> I can see templates for functionality of themes instead of the themes
>> themselves.
>> the seup app reads the data templateThemeData.xml and modifies it on the
>> fly to the way the customer wants it.
>> This way we don't have a lot of inactive themes and all the possibilities
>> are in the template data.
>> this is a flexible change once the Setup structure is in place.
>> see
>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-635
>> comment - 05/May/09 02:14 PM
>>
>
> As I planned initially, to be discussed...
>
> Jacques
>
>
>
>> =========================
>> BJ Freeman
>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation  <
>> http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>> Specialtymarket.com  <http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>
>> Chat  Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>> Jacques Le Roux sent the following on 1/6/2011 11:15 PM:
>>
>>  OK, that was the reason I had some concerns. Let's discuss it
>>> seriously...
>>>
>>> I think there are 2 ways to create a new themes from an existing one (a
>>> brand new one is not a problem).
>>>
>>> Duplicate an OOTB existing one and peek an poke there (resourceValues in
>>> ThemeNameThemeData.xml are all refering to locations in this theme)
>>> pros: independent from changes in the original theme (no pb if the theme
>>> dissapears, is changed for any reasons, etc.)
>>> cons: independent from changes in the original theme (you can't benefit
>>> from bug fixes, improvements, enhancements, etc.)
>>>
>>> Create a new theme by keeping references to an OOTB existing (some
>>> resourceValues in ThemeNameThemeData.xml are still refering to locations
>>> in this original theme)
>>> As (almost) ever there are 2 faces to the coin, the pros and cons are
>>> reversed from above.
>>>
>>> Which one are you using BJ? I guess the second. Else you would not have
>>> any concerns
>>>
>>> Jacques
>>>
>>> From: "BJ Freeman" <[hidden email]>
>>>
>>>> Adrian i am sure as a business man you understand if it ain't broke
>>>> don't fix it.
>>>> Now if you talking about new themes I can agree, but no one has
>>>> proposed any or give an price.
>>>>
>>>> =========================
>>>> BJ Freeman
>>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation
>>>> <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>>>> Specialtymarket.com <http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>>>
>>>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Adrian Crum sent the following on 1/6/2011 3:23 PM:
>>>>
>>>>> That can go both ways. If your deployments depends upon the visual
>>>>> themes being in the trunk, then perhaps you should fund their upkeep.
>>>>>
>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>
>>>>> On 1/6/2011 2:58 PM, BJ Freeman wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> so you will be glad to fund the effort to do that.
>>>>>> Time is money. and anything the effects the ROI needs to be
>>>>>> considered,
>>>>>> if the software is to be widely accepted.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> =========================
>>>>>> BJ Freeman
>>>>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation
>>>>>> <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>>>>>> Specialtymarket.com <http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>>>>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ryan Foster sent the following on 1/6/2011 2:51 PM:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I completely agree with you BJ. Considerations definitely have to be
>>>>>>> made when things are removed, especially if they are tied to the
>>>>>>> framework. What is being discussed is whether to remove themes, which
>>>>>>> can be hot-deployed from being maintained in the trunk. For future
>>>>>>> releases, all you would need to do is manually add your themes,
>>>>>>> custom
>>>>>>> or otherwise, to your production instance. If they are no longer tied
>>>>>>> in svn to the trunk, they would not be effected by any updates or
>>>>>>> releases.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jan 6, 2011, at 3:40 PM, BJ Freeman wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  so there will not be any more releases based on the trunk?
>>>>>>>> I was speaking in the future when 11.04 or 12.04 happen.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> it is the disregard of those that actually use this software instead
>>>>>>>> of just enjoy developing it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I am a developer second and a business man first.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> basically you can add all you want but when you want to remove you
>>>>>>>> must consider those that have counted on what was provided.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> =========================
>>>>>>>> BJ Freeman
>>>>>>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier
>>>>>>>> Automation<
>>>>>>>> http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>>>>>>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bruno Busco sent the following on 1/6/2011 2:33 PM:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The theme will still be present in the 10.04 releases.
>>>>>>>>> No production servers should rely on trunk.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -Bruno
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 2011/1/6 BJ Freeman<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  I have one that uses the flat grey as default
>>>>>>>>>> so if I do an update from the svn the flat grey will and my
>>>>>>>>>> customization
>>>>>>>>>> disappear.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> my sas uses all those in the themes, with my modification.
>>>>>>>>>> they will be removed. when the svn update is run.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> those are just a few examples.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> =========================
>>>>>>>>>> BJ Freeman
>>>>>>>>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation<
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>>>>>>>>>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>>>>>>>>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Bruno Busco sent the following on 1/6/2011 2:00 PM:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I am sorry, BJ, I do not see your point.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> What could be the issue?
>>>>>>>>>>> We will have less themes to maintain in the trunk (just Flat
>>>>>>>>>>> Grey,
>>>>>>>>>>> Tomahawk,
>>>>>>>>>>> Default and Multiflex).
>>>>>>>>>>> We will have more people that will be able to maintain additional
>>>>>>>>>>> themes
>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>> the Themes Gallery.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Production servers will have each one its selected theme (one of
>>>>>>>>>>> the OOTB,
>>>>>>>>>>> one of the Themes Gallery or a customized version of them).
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -Bruno
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> 2011/1/6 BJ Freeman<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> how about those that are using ofbiz for SAS and will have many
>>>>>>>>>>> themes
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>> their clients.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Bruno Busco sent the following on 1/6/2011 12:51 PM:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, having more than one theme in the trunk was originally
>>>>>>>>>>>> accepted in
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> order to use and show the visual theme selection feature OOTB.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Actually Bluelight, Dropping Crumbs and Tomahawk are one the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> evolution
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the other.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Each time we decided to create a new theme instead of replacing
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the one
>>>>>>>>>>>>> existing just to avoid problems to users.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> My proposal is to remove Bluelight, Dropping Crumbs and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> BizznessTime
>>>>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the trunk and put them in a separate themes repository as
>>>>>>>>>>>>> suggested by
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Remove the actual version of the Flat Grey from the trunk and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> put it in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes repository.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Improve the Flat Grey theme in the trunk with the work you guys
>>>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>>>> doing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> In this way we will have in the trunk two themes for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> backend
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Actual
>>>>>>>>>>>>> FlatGrey and Tomahawk) and two themes for the ecommerce
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Default
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Multiflex).
>>>>>>>>>>>>> In the themes repository there will be Bluelight, Dropping
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Crumbs,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> BizznessTime and the actual FlatGrey.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> It could be a nice start for the theme repository (and gallery)
>>>>>>>>>>>>> start.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Bruno
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2011/1/6 Jacques Le Roux<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> inline...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 6, 2011, at 11:38 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  Jacques,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I understand your concerns about support, and your thoughts
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes has some valid points. However, in regards to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BizznessTime theme, I never really intended for that to be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "my"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anyway. I always viewed it as a community theme as that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was it's original intent and it was truly a collaborative
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> effort to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> build it between myself, my colleagues at HotWax,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BrainFood,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and other members of the the OFBiz community.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Right, sorry for that Ryan. It's only because I know you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "fathers" (the most important I guess) and helped much
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at the beginning, my apologies.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> At any rate, my time issues and focus have shifted
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> significantly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the last few months as I have left HotWax and gone into
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> independent consulting and freelance development. I plan on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> much more active role in the community in the months and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> years ahead.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's really a good, very good news!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As far as theme contributions go, I wonder if maybe it would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> good
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> idea to have a theme repo outside of the trunk that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> individuals could commit to? The problem with theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maintenance
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> once
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> new theme has been added to the trunk is that not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone has commit privileges to the trunk. This makes the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> process
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maintenance a lot more time consuming for individual
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contributors as they have to rely on patches, updates,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> collaboration,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc, rather than just monitoring and maintaining their own
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> code.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This could certainly be discussed as themes are no blocking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> parts
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> long
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as *at least one works "perfectly"* (another way is to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> become committer), opinions?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think the way that Magento and Wordpress do it are good
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> examples.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wordpress, there is one "official" theme that is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> included with the install, but there are literally thousands
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of themes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that are not maintained by Wordpress that they list on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there site http://wordpress.org/extend/themes/, and now with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the 3.0
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> release you can even search for new themes and install them
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> automatically from inside your Wordpress install. Doing it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this way
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fosters wider community support by delegating maintenance of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> these themes to individual contributors rather than forcing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> handful of committers and also allows developers to monetize
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there contributions by offering "premium" themes and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> plugins. In
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fact,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there are many individuals and companies in the Wordpress
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> community that make their living solely by selling themes and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> plugins.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This furthers solidifies the base of support for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> project by offering a mid-tier option for someone who wants
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than OOTB but can't necessarily afford custom
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> development.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This makes good sense indeed. The only difference, I guess,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unfortunately the width of the audience. This does not mean
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not try...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 6, 2011, at 8:17 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From my perspective, I don't see much chance in the Flat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grey
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visual
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme being abandoned. Enough people use it that it will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get the attention it needs. If Ryan isn't available to fix
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can fix it. If I'm not available, someone else could
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fix it, etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/6/2011 6:02 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your screen copies at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-4092
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> looks really great! Looking forward for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> implementation...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My concerns are that maybe you will not have enough time
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> later to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> keep
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> up with possible bugs or other issues. Look for instance
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happened
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to Bizzness Time
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-2398
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Even if it looks a bit old, we have a theme which works
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> great. Why
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taking any risks with it? Also I can't see any issues
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> having
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes. The more we have the better, I like to have the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> choice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Some
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (rare) people prefer to use old things, see games
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> machines or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> synthesizers for instance (I still love the DX-7 sound
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_DX7
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.vintagesynth.com/yamaha/dx7.php)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are any evolved version of Flat Grey yet. So this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1st
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> modern one still using the RTL mechanism introduced by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Adrian.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> choice the name!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> IMO I see no reason to have a "Flat Grey Evolution"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> right, the Flat Grey theme hasn't had a visual update in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> years and it looks very dated. It needs some love. Let's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not add
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> another improved version, let's just improve the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> version we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have now. I think that is more efficient and more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> beneficial in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> long run.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As far as the tabs go, we can still keep a horizontal,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tab-like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> navigation without actually having the tabs look like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tabs.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because, the absolutely do look terrible displayed in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> two
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rows.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Adrian, I would be happy to collaborate with you on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think I have some ideas that could help. Email me
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> directly if you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to hash out some ideas outside of this mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> discussion.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Consequently, as far as new admin themes go, I guess I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can use
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an opportunity as well to drop a teaser about a new
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have been working on already for some time now that I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> honestly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hope
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will become the go-to theme for scalability and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> customization, and that will eventually replace the Flat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grey
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> altogether. The new theme scales down very well to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 800x600
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and has minimal styling for maximum flexibility and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> customization.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stay tuned for more details in the next few days...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 3, 2011, at 11:04 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chiclet refers to a brand of chewing gum. The tabs look
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pieces
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of Chiclets chewing gum. They look terrible when they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> displayed in two rows.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Mon, 1/3/11, Jacques Le Roux<
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> By "chiclet" main navigation style,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  you mean the tabs? Then I think we should keep Flat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grey as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it is (because there are advantages
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to have tabs) and create a Flat Grey evolution...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Adrian Crum"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was thinking we could use colors from the Apache
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> logo
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the BizznessTime theme. I would also like to get
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rid of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  the "chiclet"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> main navigation style, and maybe have that menu in a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> collapsible left column.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Sun, 1/2/11, Sascha Rodekamp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Sascha
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rodekamp<[hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Discussion: Flat Grey Visual Theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: [hidden email],
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Jacques Le Roux"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  Date: Sunday, January 2, 2011, 2:27 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I really would appreciate to keep the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Flat Gray. But you're right it needs a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> few visual improvements.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me think about this, maybe somethink comes to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my mind
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  ..... :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  Cheers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2010/12/29 Jacques Le
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Roux<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> IIRW, it's the only really RTL capable. So a big YES
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to keep
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have no ideas though :/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Adrian Crum"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Flat Grey visual theme is getting old.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The current version of the theme is based on the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> original
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> look
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and feel of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OFBiz when I first joined the community - back in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2004.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Around
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Spring of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2007 I added some gradient gifs to make the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> original style
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> little more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interesting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After that, the visual theme was converted to a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> floating
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> flexible layout
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (to fit any size screen), it was made
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sight-impaired accessible (font size
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  can be changed), and it added support for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bi-directional
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  layout
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (for rtl
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> languages). Those design decisions were made by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OFBiz
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> community and, in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my opinion, continue to make the Flat Grey theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fallback
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme when all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> else fails. It just works.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Despite its advantages, it looks dated. I would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> update
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it to make
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it more modern, but maintain its advantages over
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes. I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking it only needs css and gif file updates.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> current
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> templates and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> javascripts would be maintained.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If anyone is interested, they are welcome to help
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> appreciate any suggestions or comments.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me know what you think.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sascha Rodekamp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lynx-Consulting GmbH
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Johanniskirchplatz 6
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> D-33615 Bielefeld
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.lynx.de
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>

[Ryan Foster-3]

I understand BJ concerns, but again, I'm with Bruno on this.  Themes are modular and preferential by nature.  Not every user will want or have a need for every theme.  For instance, if I develop a women's boutique front-end theme, it may be of great interest to an owner of a women's boutique but the owner of an auto parts store could probably care less.  Why not leave 2-3 "official release" themes in the trunk that are up to date and maintained consistently by the community and move everything else to an external directory.  Then, let the user/developer pick and choose what themes to install.

In the end, we all decide whether we want to contribute the code we develop back to the code base or not.  For existing themes, my vote is to keep the active themes in the trunk and move the deprecated/ unsupported / "un-evolved" themes out to the theme gallery.  This means BizznessTime?(which unfortunately seems to be rapidly losing community backing), Bluelight, and DroppingCrumbs.

For future themes that I develop, the choice is easy for me.  I will simply not grant the theme ASF license to be included in the trunk.  I will release the theme to the public and post the theme to the theme gallery or distribute through some other method.  If we decide to create a new theme from Flat Grey, I am calling the new theme Dorian Gray (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorian_Gray).  The new theme will continue to look young, fresh and modern, while it's reflection, Flat Grey, will continue to look older and more dated with each passing year... ;)

Ryan L. Foster
801.671.0769
[hidden email]

On Jan 7, 2011, at 5:06 AM, Bruno Busco wrote:

> Dependencies between themes do not allow modular selection, distribution and
> installation.
> Please give a look to these web sites:
>
> http://www.templatemonster.com/magento-themes.php
> http://wordpress.org/extend/themes/
> http://drupal.org/project/Themes
>
> they are all examples of how to maintain themes database.
>
> In a production installation one can choose between:
> - using one of the OOTB themes as it is
> - use one of the themes from the theme gallery as it is
> - start from one of the OOTB or gallery themes to build a new customized one
>
> Moving a theme from OOTB to the theme gallery should not be an issue. It
> simply slightly changes the way how a production server is updated.
>
> -Bruno
>
> 2011/1/7 Jacques Le Roux <[hidden email]>
>
>> From: "BJ Freeman" <[hidden email]>
>>
>>> more the second.
>>>
>>> however I am reacting more to a pattern change.
>>> for instance ecommerce was downgraded from a main app to a specialpurpose.
>>> I was not removed. the architecture lets it be moved with out any code
>>> changes to custom components already developed against it.
>>>
>>
>> Yes, I completly understand your point... And I guess you are not alone in
>> this situation...
>>
>>
>> related to themes, and multitenacy, not every user is going to want the
>>> same theme so the themes folder will be filled with `100's eventually.
>>>
>>> the script I started,
>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-3490
>>> is getting fancier.
>>> I can see templates for functionality of themes instead of the themes
>>> themselves.
>>> the seup app reads the data templateThemeData.xml and modifies it on the
>>> fly to the way the customer wants it.
>>> This way we don't have a lot of inactive themes and all the possibilities
>>> are in the template data.
>>> this is a flexible change once the Setup structure is in place.
>>> see
>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-635
>>> comment - 05/May/09 02:14 PM
>>>
>>
>> As I planned initially, to be discussed...
>>
>> Jacques
>>
>>
>>
>>> =========================
>>> BJ Freeman
>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation  <
>>> http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>>> Specialtymarket.com  <http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>>
>>> Chat  Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>> Jacques Le Roux sent the following on 1/6/2011 11:15 PM:
>>>
>>> OK, that was the reason I had some concerns. Let's discuss it
>>>> seriously...
>>>>
>>>> I think there are 2 ways to create a new themes from an existing one (a
>>>> brand new one is not a problem).
>>>>
>>>> Duplicate an OOTB existing one and peek an poke there (resourceValues in
>>>> ThemeNameThemeData.xml are all refering to locations in this theme)
>>>> pros: independent from changes in the original theme (no pb if the theme
>>>> dissapears, is changed for any reasons, etc.)
>>>> cons: independent from changes in the original theme (you can't benefit
>>>> from bug fixes, improvements, enhancements, etc.)
>>>>
>>>> Create a new theme by keeping references to an OOTB existing (some
>>>> resourceValues in ThemeNameThemeData.xml are still refering to locations
>>>> in this original theme)
>>>> As (almost) ever there are 2 faces to the coin, the pros and cons are
>>>> reversed from above.
>>>>
>>>> Which one are you using BJ? I guess the second. Else you would not have
>>>> any concerns
>>>>
>>>> Jacques
>>>>
>>>> From: "BJ Freeman" <[hidden email]>
>>>>
>>>>> Adrian i am sure as a business man you understand if it ain't broke
>>>>> don't fix it.
>>>>> Now if you talking about new themes I can agree, but no one has
>>>>> proposed any or give an price.
>>>>>
>>>>> =========================
>>>>> BJ Freeman
>>>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation
>>>>> <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>>>>> Specialtymarket.com <http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>>>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>>>>
>>>>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Adrian Crum sent the following on 1/6/2011 3:23 PM:
>>>>>
>>>>>> That can go both ways. If your deployments depends upon the visual
>>>>>> themes being in the trunk, then perhaps you should fund their upkeep.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 1/6/2011 2:58 PM, BJ Freeman wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> so you will be glad to fund the effort to do that.
>>>>>>> Time is money. and anything the effects the ROI needs to be
>>>>>>> considered,
>>>>>>> if the software is to be widely accepted.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> =========================
>>>>>>> BJ Freeman
>>>>>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation
>>>>>>> <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>>>>>>> Specialtymarket.com <http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>>>>>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ryan Foster sent the following on 1/6/2011 2:51 PM:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I completely agree with you BJ. Considerations definitely have to be
>>>>>>>> made when things are removed, especially if they are tied to the
>>>>>>>> framework. What is being discussed is whether to remove themes, which
>>>>>>>> can be hot-deployed from being maintained in the trunk. For future
>>>>>>>> releases, all you would need to do is manually add your themes,
>>>>>>>> custom
>>>>>>>> or otherwise, to your production instance. If they are no longer tied
>>>>>>>> in svn to the trunk, they would not be effected by any updates or
>>>>>>>> releases.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Jan 6, 2011, at 3:40 PM, BJ Freeman wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> so there will not be any more releases based on the trunk?
>>>>>>>>> I was speaking in the future when 11.04 or 12.04 happen.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> it is the disregard of those that actually use this software instead
>>>>>>>>> of just enjoy developing it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I am a developer second and a business man first.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> basically you can add all you want but when you want to remove you
>>>>>>>>> must consider those that have counted on what was provided.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> =========================
>>>>>>>>> BJ Freeman
>>>>>>>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier
>>>>>>>>> Automation<
>>>>>>>>> http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>>>>>>>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Bruno Busco sent the following on 1/6/2011 2:33 PM:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The theme will still be present in the 10.04 releases.
>>>>>>>>>> No production servers should rely on trunk.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -Bruno
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 2011/1/6 BJ Freeman<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I have one that uses the flat grey as default
>>>>>>>>>>> so if I do an update from the svn the flat grey will and my
>>>>>>>>>>> customization
>>>>>>>>>>> disappear.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> my sas uses all those in the themes, with my modification.
>>>>>>>>>>> they will be removed. when the svn update is run.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> those are just a few examples.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> =========================
>>>>>>>>>>> BJ Freeman
>>>>>>>>>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation<
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>>>>>>>>>>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>>>>>>>>>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Bruno Busco sent the following on 1/6/2011 2:00 PM:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I am sorry, BJ, I do not see your point.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> What could be the issue?
>>>>>>>>>>>> We will have less themes to maintain in the trunk (just Flat
>>>>>>>>>>>> Grey,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Tomahawk,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Default and Multiflex).
>>>>>>>>>>>> We will have more people that will be able to maintain additional
>>>>>>>>>>>> themes
>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>> the Themes Gallery.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Production servers will have each one its selected theme (one of
>>>>>>>>>>>> the OOTB,
>>>>>>>>>>>> one of the Themes Gallery or a customized version of them).
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> -Bruno
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 2011/1/6 BJ Freeman<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> how about those that are using ofbiz for SAS and will have many
>>>>>>>>>>>> themes
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> their clients.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bruno Busco sent the following on 1/6/2011 12:51 PM:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, having more than one theme in the trunk was originally
>>>>>>>>>>>>> accepted in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> order to use and show the visual theme selection feature OOTB.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Actually Bluelight, Dropping Crumbs and Tomahawk are one the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evolution
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the other.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Each time we decided to create a new theme instead of replacing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> existing just to avoid problems to users.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My proposal is to remove Bluelight, Dropping Crumbs and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BizznessTime
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the trunk and put them in a separate themes repository as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> suggested by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Remove the actual version of the Flat Grey from the trunk and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> put it in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes repository.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Improve the Flat Grey theme in the trunk with the work you guys
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In this way we will have in the trunk two themes for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> backend
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Actual
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> FlatGrey and Tomahawk) and two themes for the ecommerce
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Default
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Multiflex).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In the themes repository there will be Bluelight, Dropping
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Crumbs,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BizznessTime and the actual FlatGrey.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It could be a nice start for the theme repository (and gallery)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> start.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Bruno
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2011/1/6 Jacques Le Roux<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> inline...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 6, 2011, at 11:38 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I understand your concerns about support, and your thoughts
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes has some valid points. However, in regards to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BizznessTime theme, I never really intended for that to be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "my"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anyway. I always viewed it as a community theme as that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was it's original intent and it was truly a collaborative
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> effort to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> build it between myself, my colleagues at HotWax,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BrainFood,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and other members of the the OFBiz community.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Right, sorry for that Ryan. It's only because I know you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "fathers" (the most important I guess) and helped much
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at the beginning, my apologies.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> At any rate, my time issues and focus have shifted
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> significantly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the last few months as I have left HotWax and gone into
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> independent consulting and freelance development. I plan on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> much more active role in the community in the months and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> years ahead.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's really a good, very good news!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As far as theme contributions go, I wonder if maybe it would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> good
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> idea to have a theme repo outside of the trunk that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> individuals could commit to? The problem with theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maintenance
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> once
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> new theme has been added to the trunk is that not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone has commit privileges to the trunk. This makes the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> process
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maintenance a lot more time consuming for individual
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contributors as they have to rely on patches, updates,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> collaboration,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc, rather than just monitoring and maintaining their own
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> code.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This could certainly be discussed as themes are no blocking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> parts
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> long
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as *at least one works "perfectly"* (another way is to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> become committer), opinions?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think the way that Magento and Wordpress do it are good
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> examples.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wordpress, there is one "official" theme that is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> included with the install, but there are literally thousands
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of themes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that are not maintained by Wordpress that they list on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there site http://wordpress.org/extend/themes/, and now with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the 3.0
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> release you can even search for new themes and install them
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> automatically from inside your Wordpress install. Doing it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this way
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fosters wider community support by delegating maintenance of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> these themes to individual contributors rather than forcing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> handful of committers and also allows developers to monetize
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there contributions by offering "premium" themes and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> plugins. In
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fact,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there are many individuals and companies in the Wordpress
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> community that make their living solely by selling themes and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> plugins.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This furthers solidifies the base of support for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> project by offering a mid-tier option for someone who wants
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than OOTB but can't necessarily afford custom
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> development.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This makes good sense indeed. The only difference, I guess,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unfortunately the width of the audience. This does not mean
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not try...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 6, 2011, at 8:17 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From my perspective, I don't see much chance in the Flat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grey
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visual
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme being abandoned. Enough people use it that it will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get the attention it needs. If Ryan isn't available to fix
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can fix it. If I'm not available, someone else could
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fix it, etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/6/2011 6:02 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your screen copies at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-4092
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> looks really great! Looking forward for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> implementation...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My concerns are that maybe you will not have enough time
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> later to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> keep
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> up with possible bugs or other issues. Look for instance
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happened
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to Bizzness Time
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-2398
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Even if it looks a bit old, we have a theme which works
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> great. Why
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taking any risks with it? Also I can't see any issues
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> having
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes. The more we have the better, I like to have the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> choice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Some
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (rare) people prefer to use old things, see games
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> machines or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> synthesizers for instance (I still love the DX-7 sound
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_DX7
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.vintagesynth.com/yamaha/dx7.php)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are any evolved version of Flat Grey yet. So this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1st
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> modern one still using the RTL mechanism introduced by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Adrian.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> choice the name!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> IMO I see no reason to have a "Flat Grey Evolution"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> right, the Flat Grey theme hasn't had a visual update in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> years and it looks very dated. It needs some love. Let's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not add
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> another improved version, let's just improve the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> version we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have now. I think that is more efficient and more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> beneficial in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> long run.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As far as the tabs go, we can still keep a horizontal,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tab-like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> navigation without actually having the tabs look like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tabs.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because, the absolutely do look terrible displayed in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> two
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rows.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Adrian, I would be happy to collaborate with you on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think I have some ideas that could help. Email me
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> directly if you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to hash out some ideas outside of this mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> discussion.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Consequently, as far as new admin themes go, I guess I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can use
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an opportunity as well to drop a teaser about a new
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have been working on already for some time now that I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> honestly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hope
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will become the go-to theme for scalability and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> customization, and that will eventually replace the Flat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grey
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> altogether. The new theme scales down very well to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 800x600
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and has minimal styling for maximum flexibility and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> customization.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stay tuned for more details in the next few days...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 3, 2011, at 11:04 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chiclet refers to a brand of chewing gum. The tabs look
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pieces
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of Chiclets chewing gum. They look terrible when they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> displayed in two rows.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Mon, 1/3/11, Jacques Le Roux<
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> By "chiclet" main navigation style,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you mean the tabs? Then I think we should keep Flat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grey as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it is (because there are advantages
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to have tabs) and create a Flat Grey evolution...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Adrian Crum"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was thinking we could use colors from the Apache
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> logo
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the BizznessTime theme. I would also like to get
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rid of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the "chiclet"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> main navigation style, and maybe have that menu in a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> collapsible left column.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Sun, 1/2/11, Sascha Rodekamp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Sascha
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rodekamp<[hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Discussion: Flat Grey Visual Theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: [hidden email],
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Jacques Le Roux"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Sunday, January 2, 2011, 2:27 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I really would appreciate to keep the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Flat Gray. But you're right it needs a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> few visual improvements.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me think about this, maybe somethink comes to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my mind
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ..... :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2010/12/29 Jacques Le
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Roux<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> IIRW, it's the only really RTL capable. So a big YES
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to keep
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have no ideas though :/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Adrian Crum"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Flat Grey visual theme is getting old.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The current version of the theme is based on the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> original
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> look
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and feel of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OFBiz when I first joined the community - back in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2004.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Around
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Spring of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2007 I added some gradient gifs to make the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> original style
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> little more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interesting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After that, the visual theme was converted to a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> floating
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> flexible layout
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (to fit any size screen), it was made
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sight-impaired accessible (font size
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can be changed), and it added support for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bi-directional
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> layout
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (for rtl
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> languages). Those design decisions were made by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OFBiz
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> community and, in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my opinion, continue to make the Flat Grey theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fallback
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme when all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> else fails. It just works.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Despite its advantages, it looks dated. I would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> update
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it to make
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it more modern, but maintain its advantages over
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes. I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking it only needs css and gif file updates.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> current
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> templates and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> javascripts would be maintained.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If anyone is interested, they are welcome to help
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> appreciate any suggestions or comments.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me know what you think.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sascha Rodekamp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lynx-Consulting GmbH
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Johanniskirchplatz 6
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> D-33615 Bielefeld
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.lynx.de
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>

[Jacques Le Roux]

From: "Bruno Busco" <[hidden email]>
> Dependencies between themes do not allow modular selection, distribution and
> installation.
> Please give a look to these web sites:
>
> http://www.templatemonster.com/magento-themes.php
> http://wordpress.org/extend/themes/
> http://drupal.org/project/Themes
>
> they are all examples of how to maintain themes database.

Mmm, I can't see any examples on "how to maintain themes database" there
http://www.templatemonster.com is actually a 3rd site which is selling templates

The others simply provide a way to dowload templates. With a bit more information than we give at
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBIZ/Visual+Themes+Gallery.
I agree we could update it according to your proposition.

> In a production installation one can choose between:
> - using one of the OOTB themes as it is
> - use one of the themes from the theme gallery as it is
> - start from one of the OOTB or gallery themes to build a new customized one
>
> Moving a theme from OOTB to the theme gallery should not be an issue. It
> simply slightly changes the way how a production server is updated.

It's ok with me. It seems to be only a problem for BJ, but I know other sites which are using the same technique and override OOTB
templates, they will have to adapt...
I think we should simply put a link to our Visual Themes Gallery from the ListVisualThemes page.

Jacques

> -Bruno
>
> 2011/1/7 Jacques Le Roux <[hidden email]>
>
>> From: "BJ Freeman" <[hidden email]>
>>
>>> more the second.
>>>
>>> however I am reacting more to a pattern change.
>>> for instance ecommerce was downgraded from a main app to a specialpurpose.
>>> I was not removed. the architecture lets it be moved with out any code
>>> changes to custom components already developed against it.
>>>
>>
>> Yes, I completly understand your point... And I guess you are not alone in
>> this situation...
>>
>>
>>  related to themes, and multitenacy, not every user is going to want the
>>> same theme so the themes folder will be filled with `100's eventually.
>>>
>>> the script I started,
>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-3490
>>> is getting fancier.
>>> I can see templates for functionality of themes instead of the themes
>>> themselves.
>>> the seup app reads the data templateThemeData.xml and modifies it on the
>>> fly to the way the customer wants it.
>>> This way we don't have a lot of inactive themes and all the possibilities
>>> are in the template data.
>>> this is a flexible change once the Setup structure is in place.
>>> see
>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-635
>>> comment - 05/May/09 02:14 PM
>>>
>>
>> As I planned initially, to be discussed...
>>
>> Jacques
>>
>>
>>
>>> =========================
>>> BJ Freeman
>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation  <
>>> http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>>> Specialtymarket.com  <http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>>
>>> Chat  Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>> Jacques Le Roux sent the following on 1/6/2011 11:15 PM:
>>>
>>>  OK, that was the reason I had some concerns. Let's discuss it
>>>> seriously...
>>>>
>>>> I think there are 2 ways to create a new themes from an existing one (a
>>>> brand new one is not a problem).
>>>>
>>>> Duplicate an OOTB existing one and peek an poke there (resourceValues in
>>>> ThemeNameThemeData.xml are all refering to locations in this theme)
>>>> pros: independent from changes in the original theme (no pb if the theme
>>>> dissapears, is changed for any reasons, etc.)
>>>> cons: independent from changes in the original theme (you can't benefit
>>>> from bug fixes, improvements, enhancements, etc.)
>>>>
>>>> Create a new theme by keeping references to an OOTB existing (some
>>>> resourceValues in ThemeNameThemeData.xml are still refering to locations
>>>> in this original theme)
>>>> As (almost) ever there are 2 faces to the coin, the pros and cons are
>>>> reversed from above.
>>>>
>>>> Which one are you using BJ? I guess the second. Else you would not have
>>>> any concerns
>>>>
>>>> Jacques
>>>>
>>>> From: "BJ Freeman" <[hidden email]>
>>>>
>>>>> Adrian i am sure as a business man you understand if it ain't broke
>>>>> don't fix it.
>>>>> Now if you talking about new themes I can agree, but no one has
>>>>> proposed any or give an price.
>>>>>
>>>>> =========================
>>>>> BJ Freeman
>>>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation
>>>>> <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>>>>> Specialtymarket.com <http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>>>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>>>>
>>>>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Adrian Crum sent the following on 1/6/2011 3:23 PM:
>>>>>
>>>>>> That can go both ways. If your deployments depends upon the visual
>>>>>> themes being in the trunk, then perhaps you should fund their upkeep.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 1/6/2011 2:58 PM, BJ Freeman wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> so you will be glad to fund the effort to do that.
>>>>>>> Time is money. and anything the effects the ROI needs to be
>>>>>>> considered,
>>>>>>> if the software is to be widely accepted.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> =========================
>>>>>>> BJ Freeman
>>>>>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation
>>>>>>> <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>>>>>>> Specialtymarket.com <http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>>>>>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ryan Foster sent the following on 1/6/2011 2:51 PM:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I completely agree with you BJ. Considerations definitely have to be
>>>>>>>> made when things are removed, especially if they are tied to the
>>>>>>>> framework. What is being discussed is whether to remove themes, which
>>>>>>>> can be hot-deployed from being maintained in the trunk. For future
>>>>>>>> releases, all you would need to do is manually add your themes,
>>>>>>>> custom
>>>>>>>> or otherwise, to your production instance. If they are no longer tied
>>>>>>>> in svn to the trunk, they would not be effected by any updates or
>>>>>>>> releases.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Jan 6, 2011, at 3:40 PM, BJ Freeman wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  so there will not be any more releases based on the trunk?
>>>>>>>>> I was speaking in the future when 11.04 or 12.04 happen.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> it is the disregard of those that actually use this software instead
>>>>>>>>> of just enjoy developing it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I am a developer second and a business man first.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> basically you can add all you want but when you want to remove you
>>>>>>>>> must consider those that have counted on what was provided.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> =========================
>>>>>>>>> BJ Freeman
>>>>>>>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier
>>>>>>>>> Automation<
>>>>>>>>> http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>>>>>>>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Bruno Busco sent the following on 1/6/2011 2:33 PM:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The theme will still be present in the 10.04 releases.
>>>>>>>>>> No production servers should rely on trunk.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -Bruno
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 2011/1/6 BJ Freeman<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>  I have one that uses the flat grey as default
>>>>>>>>>>> so if I do an update from the svn the flat grey will and my
>>>>>>>>>>> customization
>>>>>>>>>>> disappear.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> my sas uses all those in the themes, with my modification.
>>>>>>>>>>> they will be removed. when the svn update is run.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> those are just a few examples.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> =========================
>>>>>>>>>>> BJ Freeman
>>>>>>>>>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation<
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>>>>>>>>>>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>>>>>>>>>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Bruno Busco sent the following on 1/6/2011 2:00 PM:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I am sorry, BJ, I do not see your point.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> What could be the issue?
>>>>>>>>>>>> We will have less themes to maintain in the trunk (just Flat
>>>>>>>>>>>> Grey,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Tomahawk,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Default and Multiflex).
>>>>>>>>>>>> We will have more people that will be able to maintain additional
>>>>>>>>>>>> themes
>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>> the Themes Gallery.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Production servers will have each one its selected theme (one of
>>>>>>>>>>>> the OOTB,
>>>>>>>>>>>> one of the Themes Gallery or a customized version of them).
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> -Bruno
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 2011/1/6 BJ Freeman<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> how about those that are using ofbiz for SAS and will have many
>>>>>>>>>>>> themes
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> their clients.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bruno Busco sent the following on 1/6/2011 12:51 PM:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, having more than one theme in the trunk was originally
>>>>>>>>>>>>> accepted in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> order to use and show the visual theme selection feature OOTB.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Actually Bluelight, Dropping Crumbs and Tomahawk are one the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evolution
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the other.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Each time we decided to create a new theme instead of replacing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> existing just to avoid problems to users.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My proposal is to remove Bluelight, Dropping Crumbs and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BizznessTime
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the trunk and put them in a separate themes repository as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> suggested by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Remove the actual version of the Flat Grey from the trunk and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> put it in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes repository.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Improve the Flat Grey theme in the trunk with the work you guys
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In this way we will have in the trunk two themes for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> backend
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Actual
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> FlatGrey and Tomahawk) and two themes for the ecommerce
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Default
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Multiflex).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In the themes repository there will be Bluelight, Dropping
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Crumbs,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BizznessTime and the actual FlatGrey.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It could be a nice start for the theme repository (and gallery)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> start.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Bruno
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2011/1/6 Jacques Le Roux<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> inline...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 6, 2011, at 11:38 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  Jacques,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I understand your concerns about support, and your thoughts
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes has some valid points. However, in regards to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BizznessTime theme, I never really intended for that to be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "my"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anyway. I always viewed it as a community theme as that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was it's original intent and it was truly a collaborative
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> effort to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> build it between myself, my colleagues at HotWax,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BrainFood,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and other members of the the OFBiz community.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Right, sorry for that Ryan. It's only because I know you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "fathers" (the most important I guess) and helped much
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at the beginning, my apologies.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> At any rate, my time issues and focus have shifted
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> significantly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the last few months as I have left HotWax and gone into
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> independent consulting and freelance development. I plan on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> much more active role in the community in the months and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> years ahead.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's really a good, very good news!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As far as theme contributions go, I wonder if maybe it would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> good
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> idea to have a theme repo outside of the trunk that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> individuals could commit to? The problem with theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maintenance
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> once
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> new theme has been added to the trunk is that not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone has commit privileges to the trunk. This makes the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> process
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maintenance a lot more time consuming for individual
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contributors as they have to rely on patches, updates,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> collaboration,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc, rather than just monitoring and maintaining their own
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> code.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This could certainly be discussed as themes are no blocking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> parts
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> long
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as *at least one works "perfectly"* (another way is to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> become committer), opinions?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think the way that Magento and Wordpress do it are good
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> examples.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wordpress, there is one "official" theme that is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> included with the install, but there are literally thousands
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of themes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that are not maintained by Wordpress that they list on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there site http://wordpress.org/extend/themes/, and now with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the 3.0
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> release you can even search for new themes and install them
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> automatically from inside your Wordpress install. Doing it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this way
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fosters wider community support by delegating maintenance of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> these themes to individual contributors rather than forcing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> handful of committers and also allows developers to monetize
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there contributions by offering "premium" themes and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> plugins. In
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fact,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there are many individuals and companies in the Wordpress
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> community that make their living solely by selling themes and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> plugins.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This furthers solidifies the base of support for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> project by offering a mid-tier option for someone who wants
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than OOTB but can't necessarily afford custom
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> development.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This makes good sense indeed. The only difference, I guess,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unfortunately the width of the audience. This does not mean
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not try...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 6, 2011, at 8:17 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From my perspective, I don't see much chance in the Flat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grey
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visual
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme being abandoned. Enough people use it that it will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get the attention it needs. If Ryan isn't available to fix
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can fix it. If I'm not available, someone else could
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fix it, etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/6/2011 6:02 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your screen copies at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-4092
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> looks really great! Looking forward for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> implementation...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My concerns are that maybe you will not have enough time
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> later to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> keep
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> up with possible bugs or other issues. Look for instance
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happened
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to Bizzness Time
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-2398
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Even if it looks a bit old, we have a theme which works
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> great. Why
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taking any risks with it? Also I can't see any issues
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> having
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes. The more we have the better, I like to have the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> choice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Some
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (rare) people prefer to use old things, see games
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> machines or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> synthesizers for instance (I still love the DX-7 sound
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_DX7
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.vintagesynth.com/yamaha/dx7.php)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are any evolved version of Flat Grey yet. So this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1st
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> modern one still using the RTL mechanism introduced by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Adrian.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> choice the name!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> IMO I see no reason to have a "Flat Grey Evolution"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> right, the Flat Grey theme hasn't had a visual update in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> years and it looks very dated. It needs some love. Let's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not add
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> another improved version, let's just improve the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> version we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have now. I think that is more efficient and more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> beneficial in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> long run.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As far as the tabs go, we can still keep a horizontal,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tab-like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> navigation without actually having the tabs look like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tabs.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because, the absolutely do look terrible displayed in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> two
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rows.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Adrian, I would be happy to collaborate with you on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think I have some ideas that could help. Email me
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> directly if you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to hash out some ideas outside of this mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> discussion.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Consequently, as far as new admin themes go, I guess I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can use
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an opportunity as well to drop a teaser about a new
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have been working on already for some time now that I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> honestly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hope
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will become the go-to theme for scalability and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> customization, and that will eventually replace the Flat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grey
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> altogether. The new theme scales down very well to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 800x600
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and has minimal styling for maximum flexibility and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> customization.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stay tuned for more details in the next few days...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 3, 2011, at 11:04 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chiclet refers to a brand of chewing gum. The tabs look
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pieces
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of Chiclets chewing gum. They look terrible when they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> displayed in two rows.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Mon, 1/3/11, Jacques Le Roux<
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> By "chiclet" main navigation style,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  you mean the tabs? Then I think we should keep Flat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grey as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it is (because there are advantages
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to have tabs) and create a Flat Grey evolution...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Adrian Crum"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was thinking we could use colors from the Apache
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> logo
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the BizznessTime theme. I would also like to get
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rid of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  the "chiclet"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> main navigation style, and maybe have that menu in a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> collapsible left column.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Sun, 1/2/11, Sascha Rodekamp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Sascha
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rodekamp<[hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Discussion: Flat Grey Visual Theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: [hidden email],
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Jacques Le Roux"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  Date: Sunday, January 2, 2011, 2:27 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I really would appreciate to keep the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Flat Gray. But you're right it needs a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> few visual improvements.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me think about this, maybe somethink comes to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my mind
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  ..... :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  Cheers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2010/12/29 Jacques Le
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Roux<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> IIRW, it's the only really RTL capable. So a big YES
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to keep
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have no ideas though :/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Adrian Crum"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Flat Grey visual theme is getting old.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The current version of the theme is based on the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> original
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> look
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and feel of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OFBiz when I first joined the community - back in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2004.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Around
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Spring of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2007 I added some gradient gifs to make the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> original style
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> little more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interesting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After that, the visual theme was converted to a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> floating
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> flexible layout
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (to fit any size screen), it was made
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sight-impaired accessible (font size
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  can be changed), and it added support for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bi-directional
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  layout
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (for rtl
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> languages). Those design decisions were made by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OFBiz
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> community and, in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my opinion, continue to make the Flat Grey theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fallback
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme when all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> else fails. It just works.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Despite its advantages, it looks dated. I would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> update
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it to make
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it more modern, but maintain its advantages over
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes. I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking it only needs css and gif file updates.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> current
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> templates and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> javascripts would be maintained.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If anyone is interested, they are welcome to help
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> appreciate any suggestions or comments.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me know what you think.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sascha Rodekamp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lynx-Consulting GmbH
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Johanniskirchplatz 6
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> D-33615 Bielefeld
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.lynx.de
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>

[BJ Freeman]

to paraphrase what I think you said
the current themes are not independent of each other so can not be
removed, without causing failure in another

The links you gave and the themes depository in wiki will not facilitate
an end user on selecting or installing the themes from ofbiz like the
current theme selection.

again the rule is not to remove what is already put in Update and modify
only.

Now if all new themes are put in the themes gallery I see no problem
with that.

=========================
BJ Freeman
Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation  <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
Specialtymarket.com  <http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist

Chat  Y! messenger: bjfr33man


Bruno Busco sent the following on 1/7/2011 4:06 AM:

> Dependencies between themes do not allow modular selection, distribution and
> installation.
> Please give a look to these web sites:
>
> http://www.templatemonster.com/magento-themes.php
> http://wordpress.org/extend/themes/
> http://drupal.org/project/Themes
>
> they are all examples of how to maintain themes database.
>
> In a production installation one can choose between:
> - using one of the OOTB themes as it is
> - use one of the themes from the theme gallery as it is
> - start from one of the OOTB or gallery themes to build a new customized one
>
> Moving a theme from OOTB to the theme gallery should not be an issue. It
> simply slightly changes the way how a production server is updated.
>
> -Bruno
>
> 2011/1/7 Jacques Le Roux<[hidden email]>
>
>> From: "BJ Freeman"<[hidden email]>
>>
>>> more the second.
>>>
>>> however I am reacting more to a pattern change.
>>> for instance ecommerce was downgraded from a main app to a specialpurpose.
>>> I was not removed. the architecture lets it be moved with out any code
>>> changes to custom components already developed against it.
>>>
>>
>> Yes, I completly understand your point... And I guess you are not alone in
>> this situation...
>>
>>
>>   related to themes, and multitenacy, not every user is going to want the
>>> same theme so the themes folder will be filled with `100's eventually.
>>>
>>> the script I started,
>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-3490
>>> is getting fancier.
>>> I can see templates for functionality of themes instead of the themes
>>> themselves.
>>> the seup app reads the data templateThemeData.xml and modifies it on the
>>> fly to the way the customer wants it.
>>> This way we don't have a lot of inactive themes and all the possibilities
>>> are in the template data.
>>> this is a flexible change once the Setup structure is in place.
>>> see
>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-635
>>> comment - 05/May/09 02:14 PM
>>>
>>
>> As I planned initially, to be discussed...
>>
>> Jacques
>>
>>
>>
>>> =========================
>>> BJ Freeman
>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation<
>>> http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>>
>>> Chat  Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>> Jacques Le Roux sent the following on 1/6/2011 11:15 PM:
>>>
>>>   OK, that was the reason I had some concerns. Let's discuss it
>>>> seriously...
>>>>
>>>> I think there are 2 ways to create a new themes from an existing one (a
>>>> brand new one is not a problem).
>>>>
>>>> Duplicate an OOTB existing one and peek an poke there (resourceValues in
>>>> ThemeNameThemeData.xml are all refering to locations in this theme)
>>>> pros: independent from changes in the original theme (no pb if the theme
>>>> dissapears, is changed for any reasons, etc.)
>>>> cons: independent from changes in the original theme (you can't benefit
>>>> from bug fixes, improvements, enhancements, etc.)
>>>>
>>>> Create a new theme by keeping references to an OOTB existing (some
>>>> resourceValues in ThemeNameThemeData.xml are still refering to locations
>>>> in this original theme)
>>>> As (almost) ever there are 2 faces to the coin, the pros and cons are
>>>> reversed from above.
>>>>
>>>> Which one are you using BJ? I guess the second. Else you would not have
>>>> any concerns
>>>>
>>>> Jacques
>>>>
>>>> From: "BJ Freeman"<[hidden email]>
>>>>
>>>>> Adrian i am sure as a business man you understand if it ain't broke
>>>>> don't fix it.
>>>>> Now if you talking about new themes I can agree, but no one has
>>>>> proposed any or give an price.
>>>>>
>>>>> =========================
>>>>> BJ Freeman
>>>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation
>>>>> <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>>>>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>>>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>>>>
>>>>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Adrian Crum sent the following on 1/6/2011 3:23 PM:
>>>>>
>>>>>> That can go both ways. If your deployments depends upon the visual
>>>>>> themes being in the trunk, then perhaps you should fund their upkeep.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 1/6/2011 2:58 PM, BJ Freeman wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> so you will be glad to fund the effort to do that.
>>>>>>> Time is money. and anything the effects the ROI needs to be
>>>>>>> considered,
>>>>>>> if the software is to be widely accepted.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> =========================
>>>>>>> BJ Freeman
>>>>>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation
>>>>>>> <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>>>>>>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>>>>>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ryan Foster sent the following on 1/6/2011 2:51 PM:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I completely agree with you BJ. Considerations definitely have to be
>>>>>>>> made when things are removed, especially if they are tied to the
>>>>>>>> framework. What is being discussed is whether to remove themes, which
>>>>>>>> can be hot-deployed from being maintained in the trunk. For future
>>>>>>>> releases, all you would need to do is manually add your themes,
>>>>>>>> custom
>>>>>>>> or otherwise, to your production instance. If they are no longer tied
>>>>>>>> in svn to the trunk, they would not be effected by any updates or
>>>>>>>> releases.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Jan 6, 2011, at 3:40 PM, BJ Freeman wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>   so there will not be any more releases based on the trunk?
>>>>>>>>> I was speaking in the future when 11.04 or 12.04 happen.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> it is the disregard of those that actually use this software instead
>>>>>>>>> of just enjoy developing it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I am a developer second and a business man first.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> basically you can add all you want but when you want to remove you
>>>>>>>>> must consider those that have counted on what was provided.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> =========================
>>>>>>>>> BJ Freeman
>>>>>>>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier
>>>>>>>>> Automation<
>>>>>>>>> http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>>>>>>>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Bruno Busco sent the following on 1/6/2011 2:33 PM:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The theme will still be present in the 10.04 releases.
>>>>>>>>>> No production servers should rely on trunk.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -Bruno
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 2011/1/6 BJ Freeman<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>   I have one that uses the flat grey as default
>>>>>>>>>>> so if I do an update from the svn the flat grey will and my
>>>>>>>>>>> customization
>>>>>>>>>>> disappear.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> my sas uses all those in the themes, with my modification.
>>>>>>>>>>> they will be removed. when the svn update is run.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> those are just a few examples.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> =========================
>>>>>>>>>>> BJ Freeman
>>>>>>>>>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation<
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>>>>>>>>>>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>>>>>>>>>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Bruno Busco sent the following on 1/6/2011 2:00 PM:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I am sorry, BJ, I do not see your point.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> What could be the issue?
>>>>>>>>>>>> We will have less themes to maintain in the trunk (just Flat
>>>>>>>>>>>> Grey,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Tomahawk,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Default and Multiflex).
>>>>>>>>>>>> We will have more people that will be able to maintain additional
>>>>>>>>>>>> themes
>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>> the Themes Gallery.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Production servers will have each one its selected theme (one of
>>>>>>>>>>>> the OOTB,
>>>>>>>>>>>> one of the Themes Gallery or a customized version of them).
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> -Bruno
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 2011/1/6 BJ Freeman<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> how about those that are using ofbiz for SAS and will have many
>>>>>>>>>>>> themes
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> their clients.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bruno Busco sent the following on 1/6/2011 12:51 PM:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, having more than one theme in the trunk was originally
>>>>>>>>>>>>> accepted in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> order to use and show the visual theme selection feature OOTB.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Actually Bluelight, Dropping Crumbs and Tomahawk are one the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evolution
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the other.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Each time we decided to create a new theme instead of replacing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> existing just to avoid problems to users.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My proposal is to remove Bluelight, Dropping Crumbs and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BizznessTime
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the trunk and put them in a separate themes repository as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> suggested by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Remove the actual version of the Flat Grey from the trunk and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> put it in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes repository.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Improve the Flat Grey theme in the trunk with the work you guys
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In this way we will have in the trunk two themes for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> backend
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Actual
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> FlatGrey and Tomahawk) and two themes for the ecommerce
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Default
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Multiflex).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In the themes repository there will be Bluelight, Dropping
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Crumbs,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BizznessTime and the actual FlatGrey.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It could be a nice start for the theme repository (and gallery)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> start.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Bruno
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2011/1/6 Jacques Le Roux<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> inline...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 6, 2011, at 11:38 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   Jacques,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I understand your concerns about support, and your thoughts
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes has some valid points. However, in regards to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BizznessTime theme, I never really intended for that to be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "my"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anyway. I always viewed it as a community theme as that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was it's original intent and it was truly a collaborative
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> effort to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> build it between myself, my colleagues at HotWax,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BrainFood,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and other members of the the OFBiz community.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Right, sorry for that Ryan. It's only because I know you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "fathers" (the most important I guess) and helped much
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at the beginning, my apologies.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> At any rate, my time issues and focus have shifted
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> significantly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the last few months as I have left HotWax and gone into
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> independent consulting and freelance development. I plan on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> much more active role in the community in the months and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> years ahead.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's really a good, very good news!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As far as theme contributions go, I wonder if maybe it would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> good
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> idea to have a theme repo outside of the trunk that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> individuals could commit to? The problem with theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maintenance
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> once
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> new theme has been added to the trunk is that not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone has commit privileges to the trunk. This makes the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> process
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maintenance a lot more time consuming for individual
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contributors as they have to rely on patches, updates,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> collaboration,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc, rather than just monitoring and maintaining their own
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> code.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This could certainly be discussed as themes are no blocking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> parts
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> long
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as *at least one works "perfectly"* (another way is to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> become committer), opinions?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think the way that Magento and Wordpress do it are good
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> examples.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wordpress, there is one "official" theme that is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> included with the install, but there are literally thousands
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of themes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that are not maintained by Wordpress that they list on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there site http://wordpress.org/extend/themes/, and now with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the 3.0
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> release you can even search for new themes and install them
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> automatically from inside your Wordpress install. Doing it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this way
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fosters wider community support by delegating maintenance of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> these themes to individual contributors rather than forcing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> handful of committers and also allows developers to monetize
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there contributions by offering "premium" themes and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> plugins. In
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fact,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there are many individuals and companies in the Wordpress
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> community that make their living solely by selling themes and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> plugins.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This furthers solidifies the base of support for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> project by offering a mid-tier option for someone who wants
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than OOTB but can't necessarily afford custom
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> development.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This makes good sense indeed. The only difference, I guess,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unfortunately the width of the audience. This does not mean
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not try...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 6, 2011, at 8:17 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  From my perspective, I don't see much chance in the Flat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grey
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visual
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme being abandoned. Enough people use it that it will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get the attention it needs. If Ryan isn't available to fix
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can fix it. If I'm not available, someone else could
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fix it, etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/6/2011 6:02 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your screen copies at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-4092
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> looks really great! Looking forward for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> implementation...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My concerns are that maybe you will not have enough time
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> later to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> keep
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> up with possible bugs or other issues. Look for instance
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happened
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to Bizzness Time
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-2398
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Even if it looks a bit old, we have a theme which works
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> great. Why
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taking any risks with it? Also I can't see any issues
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> having
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes. The more we have the better, I like to have the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> choice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Some
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (rare) people prefer to use old things, see games
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> machines or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> synthesizers for instance (I still love the DX-7 sound
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_DX7
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.vintagesynth.com/yamaha/dx7.php)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are any evolved version of Flat Grey yet. So this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1st
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> modern one still using the RTL mechanism introduced by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Adrian.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> choice the name!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> IMO I see no reason to have a "Flat Grey Evolution"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> right, the Flat Grey theme hasn't had a visual update in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> years and it looks very dated. It needs some love. Let's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not add
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> another improved version, let's just improve the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> version we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have now. I think that is more efficient and more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> beneficial in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> long run.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As far as the tabs go, we can still keep a horizontal,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tab-like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> navigation without actually having the tabs look like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tabs.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because, the absolutely do look terrible displayed in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> two
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rows.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Adrian, I would be happy to collaborate with you on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think I have some ideas that could help. Email me
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> directly if you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to hash out some ideas outside of this mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> discussion.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Consequently, as far as new admin themes go, I guess I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can use
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an opportunity as well to drop a teaser about a new
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have been working on already for some time now that I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> honestly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hope
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will become the go-to theme for scalability and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> customization, and that will eventually replace the Flat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grey
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> altogether. The new theme scales down very well to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 800x600
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and has minimal styling for maximum flexibility and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> customization.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stay tuned for more details in the next few days...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 3, 2011, at 11:04 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chiclet refers to a brand of chewing gum. The tabs look
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pieces
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of Chiclets chewing gum. They look terrible when they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> displayed in two rows.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Mon, 1/3/11, Jacques Le Roux<
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> By "chiclet" main navigation style,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   you mean the tabs? Then I think we should keep Flat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grey as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it is (because there are advantages
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to have tabs) and create a Flat Grey evolution...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Adrian Crum"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was thinking we could use colors from the Apache
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> logo
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the BizznessTime theme. I would also like to get
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rid of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   the "chiclet"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> main navigation style, and maybe have that menu in a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> collapsible left column.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Sun, 1/2/11, Sascha Rodekamp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Sascha
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rodekamp<[hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Discussion: Flat Grey Visual Theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: [hidden email],
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Jacques Le Roux"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   Date: Sunday, January 2, 2011, 2:27 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I really would appreciate to keep the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Flat Gray. But you're right it needs a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> few visual improvements.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me think about this, maybe somethink comes to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my mind
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   ..... :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   Cheers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2010/12/29 Jacques Le
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Roux<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> IIRW, it's the only really RTL capable. So a big YES
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to keep
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have no ideas though :/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Adrian Crum"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Flat Grey visual theme is getting old.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The current version of the theme is based on the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> original
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> look
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and feel of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OFBiz when I first joined the community - back in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2004.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Around
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Spring of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2007 I added some gradient gifs to make the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> original style
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> little more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interesting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After that, the visual theme was converted to a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> floating
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> flexible layout
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (to fit any size screen), it was made
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sight-impaired accessible (font size
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   can be changed), and it added support for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bi-directional
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   layout
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (for rtl
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> languages). Those design decisions were made by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OFBiz
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> community and, in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my opinion, continue to make the Flat Grey theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fallback
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme when all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> else fails. It just works.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Despite its advantages, it looks dated. I would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> update
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it to make
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it more modern, but maintain its advantages over
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes. I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking it only needs css and gif file updates.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> current
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> templates and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> javascripts would be maintained.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If anyone is interested, they are welcome to help
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> appreciate any suggestions or comments.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me know what you think.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sascha Rodekamp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lynx-Consulting GmbH
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Johanniskirchplatz 6
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> D-33615 Bielefeld
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.lynx.de
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>

[BJ Freeman]

Bruno says:
"Dependencies between themes do not allow modular selection,
distribution and installation."
You say they are modular.

David has commented that he started this project with Idea that Trained
consultants in ofbiz would be paid to install modify, and customize ofbiz.
That model in my opinion does not work, as David has since said, with
open source. Especially being in ASF.
I have some modules that once the design time has be amortized I will
release to open source. Till then they cost.

However my main thrust with ofbiz is first make it widely accepted so by
sheer numbers, there will those that want to hire consultants. So my
focus is a good online embedded Doc and help, along with a flexible and
powerful setup that will lead a end user through a complete setup.
Part of that setup is a java based component that will go get ofbiz and
download it then ask if  they want demo or Production setup.  I can see
in that phase of the setup making the end user aware of themes in
galleries they can then have installed.

To that end I believe the current themes should be left in place and
future themes that people want to "get paid for" be put on their own
website where they can amortize their efforts.



=========================

BJ Freeman
Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation  <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
Specialtymarket.com  <http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist

Chat  Y! messenger: bjfr33man


Ryan Foster sent the following on 1/7/2011 8:52 AM:

> I understand BJ concerns, but again, I'm with Bruno on this.  Themes are modular and preferential by nature.  Not every user will want or have a need for every theme.  For instance, if I develop a women's boutique front-end theme, it may be of great interest to an owner of a women's boutique but the owner of an auto parts store could probably care less.  Why not leave 2-3 "official release" themes in the trunk that are up to date and maintained consistently by the community and move everything else to an external directory.  Then, let the user/developer pick and choose what themes to install.
>
> In the end, we all decide whether we want to contribute the code we develop back to the code base or not.  For existing themes, my vote is to keep the active themes in the trunk and move the deprecated/ unsupported / "un-evolved" themes out to the theme gallery.  This means BizznessTime?(which unfortunately seems to be rapidly losing community backing), Bluelight, and DroppingCrumbs.
>
> For future themes that I develop, the choice is easy for me.  I will simply not grant the theme ASF license to be included in the trunk.  I will release the theme to the public and post the theme to the theme gallery or distribute through some other method.  If we decide to create a new theme from Flat Grey, I am calling the new theme Dorian Gray (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorian_Gray).  The new theme will continue to look young, fresh and modern, while it's reflection, Flat Grey, will continue to look older and more dated with each passing year... ;)
>
> Ryan L. Foster
> 801.671.0769
> [hidden email]
>
> On Jan 7, 2011, at 5:06 AM, Bruno Busco wrote:
>
>> Dependencies between themes do not allow modular selection, distribution and
>> installation.
>> Please give a look to these web sites:
>>
>> http://www.templatemonster.com/magento-themes.php
>> http://wordpress.org/extend/themes/
>> http://drupal.org/project/Themes
>>
>> they are all examples of how to maintain themes database.
>>
>> In a production installation one can choose between:
>> - using one of the OOTB themes as it is
>> - use one of the themes from the theme gallery as it is
>> - start from one of the OOTB or gallery themes to build a new customized one
>>
>> Moving a theme from OOTB to the theme gallery should not be an issue. It
>> simply slightly changes the way how a production server is updated.
>>
>> -Bruno
>>
>> 2011/1/7 Jacques Le Roux<[hidden email]>
>>
>>> From: "BJ Freeman"<[hidden email]>
>>>
>>>> more the second.
>>>>
>>>> however I am reacting more to a pattern change.
>>>> for instance ecommerce was downgraded from a main app to a specialpurpose.
>>>> I was not removed. the architecture lets it be moved with out any code
>>>> changes to custom components already developed against it.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, I completly understand your point... And I guess you are not alone in
>>> this situation...
>>>
>>>
>>> related to themes, and multitenacy, not every user is going to want the
>>>> same theme so the themes folder will be filled with `100's eventually.
>>>>
>>>> the script I started,
>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-3490
>>>> is getting fancier.
>>>> I can see templates for functionality of themes instead of the themes
>>>> themselves.
>>>> the seup app reads the data templateThemeData.xml and modifies it on the
>>>> fly to the way the customer wants it.
>>>> This way we don't have a lot of inactive themes and all the possibilities
>>>> are in the template data.
>>>> this is a flexible change once the Setup structure is in place.
>>>> see
>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-635
>>>> comment - 05/May/09 02:14 PM
>>>>
>>>
>>> As I planned initially, to be discussed...
>>>
>>> Jacques
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> =========================
>>>> BJ Freeman
>>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation<
>>>> http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>>>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>>>
>>>> Chat  Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>>> Jacques Le Roux sent the following on 1/6/2011 11:15 PM:
>>>>
>>>> OK, that was the reason I had some concerns. Let's discuss it
>>>>> seriously...
>>>>>
>>>>> I think there are 2 ways to create a new themes from an existing one (a
>>>>> brand new one is not a problem).
>>>>>
>>>>> Duplicate an OOTB existing one and peek an poke there (resourceValues in
>>>>> ThemeNameThemeData.xml are all refering to locations in this theme)
>>>>> pros: independent from changes in the original theme (no pb if the theme
>>>>> dissapears, is changed for any reasons, etc.)
>>>>> cons: independent from changes in the original theme (you can't benefit
>>>>> from bug fixes, improvements, enhancements, etc.)
>>>>>
>>>>> Create a new theme by keeping references to an OOTB existing (some
>>>>> resourceValues in ThemeNameThemeData.xml are still refering to locations
>>>>> in this original theme)
>>>>> As (almost) ever there are 2 faces to the coin, the pros and cons are
>>>>> reversed from above.
>>>>>
>>>>> Which one are you using BJ? I guess the second. Else you would not have
>>>>> any concerns
>>>>>
>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>
>>>>> From: "BJ Freeman"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Adrian i am sure as a business man you understand if it ain't broke
>>>>>> don't fix it.
>>>>>> Now if you talking about new themes I can agree, but no one has
>>>>>> proposed any or give an price.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> =========================
>>>>>> BJ Freeman
>>>>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation
>>>>>> <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>>>>>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>>>>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Adrian Crum sent the following on 1/6/2011 3:23 PM:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That can go both ways. If your deployments depends upon the visual
>>>>>>> themes being in the trunk, then perhaps you should fund their upkeep.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 1/6/2011 2:58 PM, BJ Freeman wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> so you will be glad to fund the effort to do that.
>>>>>>>> Time is money. and anything the effects the ROI needs to be
>>>>>>>> considered,
>>>>>>>> if the software is to be widely accepted.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> =========================
>>>>>>>> BJ Freeman
>>>>>>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation
>>>>>>>> <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>>>>>>>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>>>>>>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ryan Foster sent the following on 1/6/2011 2:51 PM:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I completely agree with you BJ. Considerations definitely have to be
>>>>>>>>> made when things are removed, especially if they are tied to the
>>>>>>>>> framework. What is being discussed is whether to remove themes, which
>>>>>>>>> can be hot-deployed from being maintained in the trunk. For future
>>>>>>>>> releases, all you would need to do is manually add your themes,
>>>>>>>>> custom
>>>>>>>>> or otherwise, to your production instance. If they are no longer tied
>>>>>>>>> in svn to the trunk, they would not be effected by any updates or
>>>>>>>>> releases.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Jan 6, 2011, at 3:40 PM, BJ Freeman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> so there will not be any more releases based on the trunk?
>>>>>>>>>> I was speaking in the future when 11.04 or 12.04 happen.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> it is the disregard of those that actually use this software instead
>>>>>>>>>> of just enjoy developing it.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I am a developer second and a business man first.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> basically you can add all you want but when you want to remove you
>>>>>>>>>> must consider those that have counted on what was provided.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> =========================
>>>>>>>>>> BJ Freeman
>>>>>>>>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier
>>>>>>>>>> Automation<
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>>>>>>>>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Bruno Busco sent the following on 1/6/2011 2:33 PM:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The theme will still be present in the 10.04 releases.
>>>>>>>>>>> No production servers should rely on trunk.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -Bruno
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> 2011/1/6 BJ Freeman<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I have one that uses the flat grey as default
>>>>>>>>>>>> so if I do an update from the svn the flat grey will and my
>>>>>>>>>>>> customization
>>>>>>>>>>>> disappear.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> my sas uses all those in the themes, with my modification.
>>>>>>>>>>>> they will be removed. when the svn update is run.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> those are just a few examples.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> =========================
>>>>>>>>>>>> BJ Freeman
>>>>>>>>>>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation<
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Bruno Busco sent the following on 1/6/2011 2:00 PM:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I am sorry, BJ, I do not see your point.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> What could be the issue?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> We will have less themes to maintain in the trunk (just Flat
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grey,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tomahawk,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Default and Multiflex).
>>>>>>>>>>>>> We will have more people that will be able to maintain additional
>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes
>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Themes Gallery.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Production servers will have each one its selected theme (one of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the OOTB,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> one of the Themes Gallery or a customized version of them).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Bruno
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2011/1/6 BJ Freeman<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> how about those that are using ofbiz for SAS and will have many
>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their clients.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bruno Busco sent the following on 1/6/2011 12:51 PM:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, having more than one theme in the trunk was originally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> accepted in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> order to use and show the visual theme selection feature OOTB.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Actually Bluelight, Dropping Crumbs and Tomahawk are one the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evolution
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the other.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Each time we decided to create a new theme instead of replacing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> existing just to avoid problems to users.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My proposal is to remove Bluelight, Dropping Crumbs and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BizznessTime
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the trunk and put them in a separate themes repository as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> suggested by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Remove the actual version of the Flat Grey from the trunk and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> put it in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes repository.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Improve the Flat Grey theme in the trunk with the work you guys
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In this way we will have in the trunk two themes for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> backend
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Actual
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> FlatGrey and Tomahawk) and two themes for the ecommerce
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Default
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Multiflex).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In the themes repository there will be Bluelight, Dropping
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Crumbs,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BizznessTime and the actual FlatGrey.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It could be a nice start for the theme repository (and gallery)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> start.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Bruno
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2011/1/6 Jacques Le Roux<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> inline...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 6, 2011, at 11:38 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I understand your concerns about support, and your thoughts
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes has some valid points. However, in regards to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BizznessTime theme, I never really intended for that to be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "my"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anyway. I always viewed it as a community theme as that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was it's original intent and it was truly a collaborative
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> effort to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> build it between myself, my colleagues at HotWax,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BrainFood,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and other members of the the OFBiz community.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Right, sorry for that Ryan. It's only because I know you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "fathers" (the most important I guess) and helped much
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at the beginning, my apologies.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> At any rate, my time issues and focus have shifted
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> significantly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the last few months as I have left HotWax and gone into
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> independent consulting and freelance development. I plan on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> much more active role in the community in the months and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> years ahead.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's really a good, very good news!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As far as theme contributions go, I wonder if maybe it would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> good
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> idea to have a theme repo outside of the trunk that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> individuals could commit to? The problem with theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maintenance
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> once
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> new theme has been added to the trunk is that not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone has commit privileges to the trunk. This makes the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> process
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maintenance a lot more time consuming for individual
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contributors as they have to rely on patches, updates,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> collaboration,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc, rather than just monitoring and maintaining their own
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> code.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This could certainly be discussed as themes are no blocking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> parts
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> long
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as *at least one works "perfectly"* (another way is to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> become committer), opinions?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think the way that Magento and Wordpress do it are good
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> examples.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wordpress, there is one "official" theme that is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> included with the install, but there are literally thousands
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of themes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that are not maintained by Wordpress that they list on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there site http://wordpress.org/extend/themes/, and now with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the 3.0
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> release you can even search for new themes and install them
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> automatically from inside your Wordpress install. Doing it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this way
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fosters wider community support by delegating maintenance of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> these themes to individual contributors rather than forcing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> handful of committers and also allows developers to monetize
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there contributions by offering "premium" themes and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> plugins. In
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fact,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there are many individuals and companies in the Wordpress
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> community that make their living solely by selling themes and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> plugins.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This furthers solidifies the base of support for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> project by offering a mid-tier option for someone who wants
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than OOTB but can't necessarily afford custom
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> development.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This makes good sense indeed. The only difference, I guess,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unfortunately the width of the audience. This does not mean
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not try...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 6, 2011, at 8:17 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  From my perspective, I don't see much chance in the Flat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grey
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visual
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme being abandoned. Enough people use it that it will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get the attention it needs. If Ryan isn't available to fix
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can fix it. If I'm not available, someone else could
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fix it, etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/6/2011 6:02 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your screen copies at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-4092
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> looks really great! Looking forward for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> implementation...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My concerns are that maybe you will not have enough time
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> later to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> keep
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> up with possible bugs or other issues. Look for instance
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happened
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to Bizzness Time
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-2398
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Even if it looks a bit old, we have a theme which works
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> great. Why
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taking any risks with it? Also I can't see any issues
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> having
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes. The more we have the better, I like to have the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> choice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Some
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (rare) people prefer to use old things, see games
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> machines or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> synthesizers for instance (I still love the DX-7 sound
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_DX7
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.vintagesynth.com/yamaha/dx7.php)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are any evolved version of Flat Grey yet. So this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1st
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> modern one still using the RTL mechanism introduced by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Adrian.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> choice the name!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> IMO I see no reason to have a "Flat Grey Evolution"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> right, the Flat Grey theme hasn't had a visual update in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> years and it looks very dated. It needs some love. Let's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not add
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> another improved version, let's just improve the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> version we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have now. I think that is more efficient and more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> beneficial in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> long run.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As far as the tabs go, we can still keep a horizontal,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tab-like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> navigation without actually having the tabs look like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tabs.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because, the absolutely do look terrible displayed in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> two
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rows.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Adrian, I would be happy to collaborate with you on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think I have some ideas that could help. Email me
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> directly if you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to hash out some ideas outside of this mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> discussion.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Consequently, as far as new admin themes go, I guess I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can use
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an opportunity as well to drop a teaser about a new
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have been working on already for some time now that I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> honestly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hope
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will become the go-to theme for scalability and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> customization, and that will eventually replace the Flat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grey
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> altogether. The new theme scales down very well to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 800x600
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and has minimal styling for maximum flexibility and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> customization.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stay tuned for more details in the next few days...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 3, 2011, at 11:04 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chiclet refers to a brand of chewing gum. The tabs look
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pieces
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of Chiclets chewing gum. They look terrible when they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> displayed in two rows.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Mon, 1/3/11, Jacques Le Roux<
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> By "chiclet" main navigation style,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you mean the tabs? Then I think we should keep Flat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grey as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it is (because there are advantages
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to have tabs) and create a Flat Grey evolution...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Adrian Crum"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was thinking we could use colors from the Apache
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> logo
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the BizznessTime theme. I would also like to get
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rid of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the "chiclet"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> main navigation style, and maybe have that menu in a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> collapsible left column.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Sun, 1/2/11, Sascha Rodekamp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Sascha
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rodekamp<[hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Discussion: Flat Grey Visual Theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: [hidden email],
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Jacques Le Roux"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Sunday, January 2, 2011, 2:27 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I really would appreciate to keep the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Flat Gray. But you're right it needs a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> few visual improvements.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me think about this, maybe somethink comes to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my mind
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ..... :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2010/12/29 Jacques Le
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Roux<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> IIRW, it's the only really RTL capable. So a big YES
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to keep
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have no ideas though :/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Adrian Crum"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Flat Grey visual theme is getting old.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The current version of the theme is based on the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> original
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> look
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and feel of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OFBiz when I first joined the community - back in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2004.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Around
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Spring of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2007 I added some gradient gifs to make the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> original style
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> little more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interesting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After that, the visual theme was converted to a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> floating
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> flexible layout
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (to fit any size screen), it was made
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sight-impaired accessible (font size
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can be changed), and it added support for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bi-directional
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> layout
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (for rtl
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> languages). Those design decisions were made by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OFBiz
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> community and, in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my opinion, continue to make the Flat Grey theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fallback
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme when all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> else fails. It just works.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Despite its advantages, it looks dated. I would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> update
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it to make
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it more modern, but maintain its advantages over
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes. I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking it only needs css and gif file updates.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> current
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> templates and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> javascripts would be maintained.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If anyone is interested, they are welcome to help
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> appreciate any suggestions or comments.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me know what you think.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sascha Rodekamp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lynx-Consulting GmbH
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Johanniskirchplatz 6
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> D-33615 Bielefeld
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.lynx.de
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>
>

[David E. Jones-2]

On Jan 7, 2011, at 10:17 AM, BJ Freeman wrote:

> David has commented that he started this project with Idea that Trained consultants in ofbiz would be paid to install modify, and customize ofbiz.
> That model in my opinion does not work, as David has since said, with open source. Especially being in ASF.

I don't believe I ever said any such thing. In fact, I've said many times that most users of OFBiz do everything on their own and never hire a consultant, and for the project that is a very good thing. Not everyone will want to do that, and it won't always be the most cost-effective (and certainly not time-effective) thing to do, so there is certainly a market for consulting. However, that is not and never should be considered a requirement for using the project or a design objective of the project. Not ever.

-David

[BJ Freeman]

I apologize is I paraphrased this wrong
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/ofbiz-user/201009.mbox/%3C7DDC589C-FCE5-4E71-97C9-F5F8147AB646@...%3E

=========================
BJ Freeman
Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation  <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
Specialtymarket.com  <http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist

Chat  Y! messenger: bjfr33man


David E Jones sent the following on 1/7/2011 10:58 AM:

>
> On Jan 7, 2011, at 10:17 AM, BJ Freeman wrote:
>
>> David has commented that he started this project with Idea that Trained consultants in ofbiz would be paid to install modify, and customize ofbiz.
>> That model in my opinion does not work, as David has since said, with open source. Especially being in ASF.
>
> I don't believe I ever said any such thing. In fact, I've said many times that most users of OFBiz do everything on their own and never hire a consultant, and for the project that is a very good thing. Not everyone will want to do that, and it won't always be the most cost-effective (and certainly not time-effective) thing to do, so there is certainly a market for consulting. However, that is not and never should be considered a requirement for using the project or a design objective of the project. Not ever.
>
> -David
>
>
>

[Ryan Foster-3]

I don't want to misquote Bruno, but I believe what he was saying was "if we create dependencies" between themes, it does not allow modular selection, distribution, and installation.  Not that those dependencies already exist, because they don't.

I am not saying that I want to "get paid" for all of the themes I create, I'm simply suggesting it would be better in the long run if we leave modularized theming options open, monetized or otherwise, and let the user pick and choose what they want to install.  Installing themes does not require a paid consultant to install.  A new theme can be installed on-the-fly using the xml data import feature in webtools in a few minutes, with very little knowledge or instruction.

You do bring up an interesting idea though...

Say for instance we have just 2 themes in the OOTB installation with a link under the selection list that said "get more themes".  Clicking that would bring up a list of themes in an external themes repo.  We could then have a script that allows the user to grab the external themes XML seed data and download the themes assets to their installed instance.  Might be a good idea for a future enhancement.

Ryan L. Foster
801.671.0769
[hidden email]

On Jan 7, 2011, at 11:17 AM, BJ Freeman wrote:

> Bruno says:
> "Dependencies between themes do not allow modular selection, distribution and installation."
> You say they are modular.
>
> David has commented that he started this project with Idea that Trained consultants in ofbiz would be paid to install modify, and customize ofbiz.
> That model in my opinion does not work, as David has since said, with open source. Especially being in ASF.
> I have some modules that once the design time has be amortized I will release to open source. Till then they cost.
>
> However my main thrust with ofbiz is first make it widely accepted so by sheer numbers, there will those that want to hire consultants. So my focus is a good online embedded Doc and help, along with a flexible and powerful setup that will lead a end user through a complete setup.
> Part of that setup is a java based component that will go get ofbiz and download it then ask if  they want demo or Production setup.  I can see in that phase of the setup making the end user aware of themes in galleries they can then have installed.
>
> To that end I believe the current themes should be left in place and future themes that people want to "get paid for" be put on their own website where they can amortize their efforts.
>
>
>
> =========================
>
> BJ Freeman
> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation  <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
> Specialtymarket.com  <http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>
> Chat  Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>
>
> Ryan Foster sent the following on 1/7/2011 8:52 AM:
>> I understand BJ concerns, but again, I'm with Bruno on this.  Themes are modular and preferential by nature.  Not every user will want or have a need for every theme.  For instance, if I develop a women's boutique front-end theme, it may be of great interest to an owner of a women's boutique but the owner of an auto parts store could probably care less.  Why not leave 2-3 "official release" themes in the trunk that are up to date and maintained consistently by the community and move everything else to an external directory.  Then, let the user/developer pick and choose what themes to install.
>>
>> In the end, we all decide whether we want to contribute the code we develop back to the code base or not.  For existing themes, my vote is to keep the active themes in the trunk and move the deprecated/ unsupported / "un-evolved" themes out to the theme gallery.  This means BizznessTime?(which unfortunately seems to be rapidly losing community backing), Bluelight, and DroppingCrumbs.
>>
>> For future themes that I develop, the choice is easy for me.  I will simply not grant the theme ASF license to be included in the trunk.  I will release the theme to the public and post the theme to the theme gallery or distribute through some other method.  If we decide to create a new theme from Flat Grey, I am calling the new theme Dorian Gray (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorian_Gray).  The new theme will continue to look young, fresh and modern, while it's reflection, Flat Grey, will continue to look older and more dated with each passing year... ;)
>>
>> Ryan L. Foster
>> 801.671.0769
>> [hidden email]
>>
>> On Jan 7, 2011, at 5:06 AM, Bruno Busco wrote:
>>
>>> Dependencies between themes do not allow modular selection, distribution and
>>> installation.
>>> Please give a look to these web sites:
>>>
>>> http://www.templatemonster.com/magento-themes.php
>>> http://wordpress.org/extend/themes/
>>> http://drupal.org/project/Themes
>>>
>>> they are all examples of how to maintain themes database.
>>>
>>> In a production installation one can choose between:
>>> - using one of the OOTB themes as it is
>>> - use one of the themes from the theme gallery as it is
>>> - start from one of the OOTB or gallery themes to build a new customized one
>>>
>>> Moving a theme from OOTB to the theme gallery should not be an issue. It
>>> simply slightly changes the way how a production server is updated.
>>>
>>> -Bruno
>>>
>>> 2011/1/7 Jacques Le Roux<[hidden email]>
>>>
>>>> From: "BJ Freeman"<[hidden email]>
>>>>
>>>>> more the second.
>>>>>
>>>>> however I am reacting more to a pattern change.
>>>>> for instance ecommerce was downgraded from a main app to a specialpurpose.
>>>>> I was not removed. the architecture lets it be moved with out any code
>>>>> changes to custom components already developed against it.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yes, I completly understand your point... And I guess you are not alone in
>>>> this situation...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> related to themes, and multitenacy, not every user is going to want the
>>>>> same theme so the themes folder will be filled with `100's eventually.
>>>>>
>>>>> the script I started,
>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-3490
>>>>> is getting fancier.
>>>>> I can see templates for functionality of themes instead of the themes
>>>>> themselves.
>>>>> the seup app reads the data templateThemeData.xml and modifies it on the
>>>>> fly to the way the customer wants it.
>>>>> This way we don't have a lot of inactive themes and all the possibilities
>>>>> are in the template data.
>>>>> this is a flexible change once the Setup structure is in place.
>>>>> see
>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-635
>>>>> comment - 05/May/09 02:14 PM
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> As I planned initially, to be discussed...
>>>>
>>>> Jacques
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> =========================
>>>>> BJ Freeman
>>>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation<
>>>>> http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>>>>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>>>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>>>>
>>>>> Chat  Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>>>> Jacques Le Roux sent the following on 1/6/2011 11:15 PM:
>>>>>
>>>>> OK, that was the reason I had some concerns. Let's discuss it
>>>>>> seriously...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think there are 2 ways to create a new themes from an existing one (a
>>>>>> brand new one is not a problem).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Duplicate an OOTB existing one and peek an poke there (resourceValues in
>>>>>> ThemeNameThemeData.xml are all refering to locations in this theme)
>>>>>> pros: independent from changes in the original theme (no pb if the theme
>>>>>> dissapears, is changed for any reasons, etc.)
>>>>>> cons: independent from changes in the original theme (you can't benefit
>>>>>> from bug fixes, improvements, enhancements, etc.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Create a new theme by keeping references to an OOTB existing (some
>>>>>> resourceValues in ThemeNameThemeData.xml are still refering to locations
>>>>>> in this original theme)
>>>>>> As (almost) ever there are 2 faces to the coin, the pros and cons are
>>>>>> reversed from above.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Which one are you using BJ? I guess the second. Else you would not have
>>>>>> any concerns
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From: "BJ Freeman"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Adrian i am sure as a business man you understand if it ain't broke
>>>>>>> don't fix it.
>>>>>>> Now if you talking about new themes I can agree, but no one has
>>>>>>> proposed any or give an price.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> =========================
>>>>>>> BJ Freeman
>>>>>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation
>>>>>>> <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>>>>>>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>>>>>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Adrian Crum sent the following on 1/6/2011 3:23 PM:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That can go both ways. If your deployments depends upon the visual
>>>>>>>> themes being in the trunk, then perhaps you should fund their upkeep.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 1/6/2011 2:58 PM, BJ Freeman wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> so you will be glad to fund the effort to do that.
>>>>>>>>> Time is money. and anything the effects the ROI needs to be
>>>>>>>>> considered,
>>>>>>>>> if the software is to be widely accepted.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> =========================
>>>>>>>>> BJ Freeman
>>>>>>>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation
>>>>>>>>> <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>>>>>>>>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>>>>>>>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ryan Foster sent the following on 1/6/2011 2:51 PM:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I completely agree with you BJ. Considerations definitely have to be
>>>>>>>>>> made when things are removed, especially if they are tied to the
>>>>>>>>>> framework. What is being discussed is whether to remove themes, which
>>>>>>>>>> can be hot-deployed from being maintained in the trunk. For future
>>>>>>>>>> releases, all you would need to do is manually add your themes,
>>>>>>>>>> custom
>>>>>>>>>> or otherwise, to your production instance. If they are no longer tied
>>>>>>>>>> in svn to the trunk, they would not be effected by any updates or
>>>>>>>>>> releases.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 6, 2011, at 3:40 PM, BJ Freeman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> so there will not be any more releases based on the trunk?
>>>>>>>>>>> I was speaking in the future when 11.04 or 12.04 happen.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> it is the disregard of those that actually use this software instead
>>>>>>>>>>> of just enjoy developing it.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I am a developer second and a business man first.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> basically you can add all you want but when you want to remove you
>>>>>>>>>>> must consider those that have counted on what was provided.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> =========================
>>>>>>>>>>> BJ Freeman
>>>>>>>>>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier
>>>>>>>>>>> Automation<
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>>>>>>>>>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Bruno Busco sent the following on 1/6/2011 2:33 PM:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The theme will still be present in the 10.04 releases.
>>>>>>>>>>>> No production servers should rely on trunk.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> -Bruno
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 2011/1/6 BJ Freeman<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I have one that uses the flat grey as default
>>>>>>>>>>>>> so if I do an update from the svn the flat grey will and my
>>>>>>>>>>>>> customization
>>>>>>>>>>>>> disappear.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> my sas uses all those in the themes, with my modification.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> they will be removed. when the svn update is run.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> those are just a few examples.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> =========================
>>>>>>>>>>>>> BJ Freeman
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation<
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bruno Busco sent the following on 1/6/2011 2:00 PM:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am sorry, BJ, I do not see your point.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What could be the issue?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We will have less themes to maintain in the trunk (just Flat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grey,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tomahawk,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Default and Multiflex).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We will have more people that will be able to maintain additional
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Themes Gallery.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Production servers will have each one its selected theme (one of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the OOTB,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one of the Themes Gallery or a customized version of them).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Bruno
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2011/1/6 BJ Freeman<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how about those that are using ofbiz for SAS and will have many
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their clients.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bruno Busco sent the following on 1/6/2011 12:51 PM:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, having more than one theme in the trunk was originally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> accepted in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> order to use and show the visual theme selection feature OOTB.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Actually Bluelight, Dropping Crumbs and Tomahawk are one the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evolution
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the other.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Each time we decided to create a new theme instead of replacing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> existing just to avoid problems to users.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My proposal is to remove Bluelight, Dropping Crumbs and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BizznessTime
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the trunk and put them in a separate themes repository as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> suggested by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Remove the actual version of the Flat Grey from the trunk and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> put it in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes repository.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Improve the Flat Grey theme in the trunk with the work you guys
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In this way we will have in the trunk two themes for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> backend
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Actual
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> FlatGrey and Tomahawk) and two themes for the ecommerce
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Default
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Multiflex).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In the themes repository there will be Bluelight, Dropping
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Crumbs,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BizznessTime and the actual FlatGrey.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It could be a nice start for the theme repository (and gallery)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> start.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Bruno
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2011/1/6 Jacques Le Roux<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> inline...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 6, 2011, at 11:38 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I understand your concerns about support, and your thoughts
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes has some valid points. However, in regards to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BizznessTime theme, I never really intended for that to be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "my"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anyway. I always viewed it as a community theme as that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was it's original intent and it was truly a collaborative
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> effort to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> build it between myself, my colleagues at HotWax,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BrainFood,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and other members of the the OFBiz community.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Right, sorry for that Ryan. It's only because I know you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "fathers" (the most important I guess) and helped much
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at the beginning, my apologies.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> At any rate, my time issues and focus have shifted
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> significantly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the last few months as I have left HotWax and gone into
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> independent consulting and freelance development. I plan on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> much more active role in the community in the months and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> years ahead.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's really a good, very good news!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As far as theme contributions go, I wonder if maybe it would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> good
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> idea to have a theme repo outside of the trunk that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> individuals could commit to? The problem with theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maintenance
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> once
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> new theme has been added to the trunk is that not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone has commit privileges to the trunk. This makes the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> process
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maintenance a lot more time consuming for individual
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contributors as they have to rely on patches, updates,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> collaboration,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc, rather than just monitoring and maintaining their own
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> code.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This could certainly be discussed as themes are no blocking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> parts
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> long
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as *at least one works "perfectly"* (another way is to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> become committer), opinions?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think the way that Magento and Wordpress do it are good
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> examples.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wordpress, there is one "official" theme that is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> included with the install, but there are literally thousands
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of themes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that are not maintained by Wordpress that they list on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there site http://wordpress.org/extend/themes/, and now with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the 3.0
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> release you can even search for new themes and install them
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> automatically from inside your Wordpress install. Doing it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this way
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fosters wider community support by delegating maintenance of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> these themes to individual contributors rather than forcing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> handful of committers and also allows developers to monetize
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there contributions by offering "premium" themes and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> plugins. In
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fact,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there are many individuals and companies in the Wordpress
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> community that make their living solely by selling themes and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> plugins.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This furthers solidifies the base of support for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> project by offering a mid-tier option for someone who wants
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than OOTB but can't necessarily afford custom
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> development.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This makes good sense indeed. The only difference, I guess,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unfortunately the width of the audience. This does not mean
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not try...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 6, 2011, at 8:17 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From my perspective, I don't see much chance in the Flat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grey
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visual
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme being abandoned. Enough people use it that it will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get the attention it needs. If Ryan isn't available to fix
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can fix it. If I'm not available, someone else could
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fix it, etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/6/2011 6:02 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your screen copies at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-4092
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> looks really great! Looking forward for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> implementation...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My concerns are that maybe you will not have enough time
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> later to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> keep
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> up with possible bugs or other issues. Look for instance
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happened
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to Bizzness Time
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-2398
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Even if it looks a bit old, we have a theme which works
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> great. Why
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taking any risks with it? Also I can't see any issues
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> having
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes. The more we have the better, I like to have the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> choice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Some
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (rare) people prefer to use old things, see games
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> machines or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> synthesizers for instance (I still love the DX-7 sound
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_DX7
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.vintagesynth.com/yamaha/dx7.php)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are any evolved version of Flat Grey yet. So this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1st
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> modern one still using the RTL mechanism introduced by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Adrian.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> choice the name!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> IMO I see no reason to have a "Flat Grey Evolution"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> right, the Flat Grey theme hasn't had a visual update in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> years and it looks very dated. It needs some love. Let's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not add
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> another improved version, let's just improve the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> version we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have now. I think that is more efficient and more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> beneficial in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> long run.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As far as the tabs go, we can still keep a horizontal,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tab-like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> navigation without actually having the tabs look like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tabs.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because, the absolutely do look terrible displayed in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> two
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rows.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Adrian, I would be happy to collaborate with you on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think I have some ideas that could help. Email me
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> directly if you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to hash out some ideas outside of this mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> discussion.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Consequently, as far as new admin themes go, I guess I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can use
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an opportunity as well to drop a teaser about a new
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have been working on already for some time now that I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> honestly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hope
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will become the go-to theme for scalability and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> customization, and that will eventually replace the Flat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grey
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> altogether. The new theme scales down very well to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 800x600
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and has minimal styling for maximum flexibility and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> customization.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stay tuned for more details in the next few days...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 3, 2011, at 11:04 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chiclet refers to a brand of chewing gum. The tabs look
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pieces
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of Chiclets chewing gum. They look terrible when they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> displayed in two rows.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Mon, 1/3/11, Jacques Le Roux<
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> By "chiclet" main navigation style,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you mean the tabs? Then I think we should keep Flat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grey as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it is (because there are advantages
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to have tabs) and create a Flat Grey evolution...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Adrian Crum"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was thinking we could use colors from the Apache
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> logo
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the BizznessTime theme. I would also like to get
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rid of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the "chiclet"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> main navigation style, and maybe have that menu in a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> collapsible left column.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Sun, 1/2/11, Sascha Rodekamp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Sascha
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rodekamp<[hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Discussion: Flat Grey Visual Theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: [hidden email],
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Jacques Le Roux"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Sunday, January 2, 2011, 2:27 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I really would appreciate to keep the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Flat Gray. But you're right it needs a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> few visual improvements.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me think about this, maybe somethink comes to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my mind
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ..... :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2010/12/29 Jacques Le
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Roux<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> IIRW, it's the only really RTL capable. So a big YES
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to keep
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have no ideas though :/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Adrian Crum"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Flat Grey visual theme is getting old.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The current version of the theme is based on the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> original
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> look
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and feel of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OFBiz when I first joined the community - back in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2004.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Around
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Spring of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2007 I added some gradient gifs to make the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> original style
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> little more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interesting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After that, the visual theme was converted to a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> floating
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> flexible layout
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (to fit any size screen), it was made
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sight-impaired accessible (font size
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can be changed), and it added support for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bi-directional
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> layout
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (for rtl
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> languages). Those design decisions were made by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OFBiz
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> community and, in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my opinion, continue to make the Flat Grey theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fallback
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme when all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> else fails. It just works.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Despite its advantages, it looks dated. I would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> update
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it to make
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it more modern, but maintain its advantages over
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes. I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking it only needs css and gif file updates.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> current
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> templates and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> javascripts would be maintained.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If anyone is interested, they are welcome to help
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> appreciate any suggestions or comments.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me know what you think.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sascha Rodekamp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lynx-Consulting GmbH
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Johanniskirchplatz 6
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> D-33615 Bielefeld
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.lynx.de
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>

[Bruno Busco]

I a not saying that actual themes are dependent from each other. At least I
am not aware of this dependency.
I mean that, generally, a theme A is dependent from theme B than you cannot
download theme A from the Theme Gallery and install it if you do not install
theme B also. That simple.


2011/1/7 BJ Freeman <[hidden email]>

> to paraphrase what I think you said
> the current themes are not independent of each other so can not be removed,
> without causing failure in another
>
> The links you gave and the themes depository in wiki will not facilitate an
> end user on selecting or installing the themes from ofbiz like the current
> theme selection.
>
> again the rule is not to remove what is already put in Update and modify
> only.
>
> Now if all new themes are put in the themes gallery I see no problem with
> that.
>
>
> =========================
> BJ Freeman
> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation  <
> http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
> Specialtymarket.com  <http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>
> Chat  Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>
>
> Bruno Busco sent the following on 1/7/2011 4:06 AM:
>
>  Dependencies between themes do not allow modular selection, distribution
>> and
>> installation.
>> Please give a look to these web sites:
>>
>> http://www.templatemonster.com/magento-themes.php
>> http://wordpress.org/extend/themes/
>> http://drupal.org/project/Themes
>>
>> they are all examples of how to maintain themes database.
>>
>> In a production installation one can choose between:
>> - using one of the OOTB themes as it is
>> - use one of the themes from the theme gallery as it is
>> - start from one of the OOTB or gallery themes to build a new customized
>> one
>>
>> Moving a theme from OOTB to the theme gallery should not be an issue. It
>> simply slightly changes the way how a production server is updated.
>>
>> -Bruno
>>
>> 2011/1/7 Jacques Le Roux<[hidden email]>
>>
>>  From: "BJ Freeman"<[hidden email]>
>>>
>>>  more the second.
>>>>
>>>> however I am reacting more to a pattern change.
>>>> for instance ecommerce was downgraded from a main app to a
>>>> specialpurpose.
>>>> I was not removed. the architecture lets it be moved with out any code
>>>> changes to custom components already developed against it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Yes, I completly understand your point... And I guess you are not alone
>>> in
>>> this situation...
>>>
>>>
>>>  related to themes, and multitenacy, not every user is going to want the
>>>
>>>> same theme so the themes folder will be filled with `100's eventually.
>>>>
>>>> the script I started,
>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-3490
>>>> is getting fancier.
>>>> I can see templates for functionality of themes instead of the themes
>>>> themselves.
>>>> the seup app reads the data templateThemeData.xml and modifies it on the
>>>> fly to the way the customer wants it.
>>>> This way we don't have a lot of inactive themes and all the
>>>> possibilities
>>>> are in the template data.
>>>> this is a flexible change once the Setup structure is in place.
>>>> see
>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-635
>>>> comment - 05/May/09 02:14 PM
>>>>
>>>>
>>> As I planned initially, to be discussed...
>>>
>>> Jacques
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  =========================
>>>> BJ Freeman
>>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation<
>>>> http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>>>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>>>
>>>> Chat  Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>>> Jacques Le Roux sent the following on 1/6/2011 11:15 PM:
>>>>
>>>>  OK, that was the reason I had some concerns. Let's discuss it
>>>>
>>>>> seriously...
>>>>>
>>>>> I think there are 2 ways to create a new themes from an existing one (a
>>>>> brand new one is not a problem).
>>>>>
>>>>> Duplicate an OOTB existing one and peek an poke there (resourceValues
>>>>> in
>>>>> ThemeNameThemeData.xml are all refering to locations in this theme)
>>>>> pros: independent from changes in the original theme (no pb if the
>>>>> theme
>>>>> dissapears, is changed for any reasons, etc.)
>>>>> cons: independent from changes in the original theme (you can't benefit
>>>>> from bug fixes, improvements, enhancements, etc.)
>>>>>
>>>>> Create a new theme by keeping references to an OOTB existing (some
>>>>> resourceValues in ThemeNameThemeData.xml are still refering to
>>>>> locations
>>>>> in this original theme)
>>>>> As (almost) ever there are 2 faces to the coin, the pros and cons are
>>>>> reversed from above.
>>>>>
>>>>> Which one are you using BJ? I guess the second. Else you would not have
>>>>> any concerns
>>>>>
>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>
>>>>> From: "BJ Freeman"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>
>>>>>  Adrian i am sure as a business man you understand if it ain't broke
>>>>>> don't fix it.
>>>>>> Now if you talking about new themes I can agree, but no one has
>>>>>> proposed any or give an price.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> =========================
>>>>>> BJ Freeman
>>>>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation
>>>>>> <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>>>>>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>>>>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Adrian Crum sent the following on 1/6/2011 3:23 PM:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  That can go both ways. If your deployments depends upon the visual
>>>>>>> themes being in the trunk, then perhaps you should fund their upkeep.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 1/6/2011 2:58 PM, BJ Freeman wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  so you will be glad to fund the effort to do that.
>>>>>>>> Time is money. and anything the effects the ROI needs to be
>>>>>>>> considered,
>>>>>>>> if the software is to be widely accepted.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> =========================
>>>>>>>> BJ Freeman
>>>>>>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation
>>>>>>>> <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>>>>>>>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>>>>>>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ryan Foster sent the following on 1/6/2011 2:51 PM:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  I completely agree with you BJ. Considerations definitely have to
>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>> made when things are removed, especially if they are tied to the
>>>>>>>>> framework. What is being discussed is whether to remove themes,
>>>>>>>>> which
>>>>>>>>> can be hot-deployed from being maintained in the trunk. For future
>>>>>>>>> releases, all you would need to do is manually add your themes,
>>>>>>>>> custom
>>>>>>>>> or otherwise, to your production instance. If they are no longer
>>>>>>>>> tied
>>>>>>>>> in svn to the trunk, they would not be effected by any updates or
>>>>>>>>> releases.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Jan 6, 2011, at 3:40 PM, BJ Freeman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  so there will not be any more releases based on the trunk?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I was speaking in the future when 11.04 or 12.04 happen.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> it is the disregard of those that actually use this software
>>>>>>>>>> instead
>>>>>>>>>> of just enjoy developing it.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I am a developer second and a business man first.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> basically you can add all you want but when you want to remove you
>>>>>>>>>> must consider those that have counted on what was provided.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> =========================
>>>>>>>>>> BJ Freeman
>>>>>>>>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier
>>>>>>>>>> Automation<
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>>>>>>>>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Bruno Busco sent the following on 1/6/2011 2:33 PM:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>  The theme will still be present in the 10.04 releases.
>>>>>>>>>>> No production servers should rely on trunk.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -Bruno
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> 2011/1/6 BJ Freeman<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>  I have one that uses the flat grey as default
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> so if I do an update from the svn the flat grey will and my
>>>>>>>>>>>> customization
>>>>>>>>>>>> disappear.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> my sas uses all those in the themes, with my modification.
>>>>>>>>>>>> they will be removed. when the svn update is run.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> those are just a few examples.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> =========================
>>>>>>>>>>>> BJ Freeman
>>>>>>>>>>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation<
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Bruno Busco sent the following on 1/6/2011 2:00 PM:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I am sorry, BJ, I do not see your point.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> What could be the issue?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> We will have less themes to maintain in the trunk (just Flat
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grey,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tomahawk,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Default and Multiflex).
>>>>>>>>>>>>> We will have more people that will be able to maintain
>>>>>>>>>>>>> additional
>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes
>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Themes Gallery.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Production servers will have each one its selected theme (one
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the OOTB,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> one of the Themes Gallery or a customized version of them).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Bruno
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2011/1/6 BJ Freeman<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> how about those that are using ofbiz for SAS and will have many
>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their clients.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bruno Busco sent the following on 1/6/2011 12:51 PM:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, having more than one theme in the trunk was originally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> accepted in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> order to use and show the visual theme selection feature
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OOTB.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Actually Bluelight, Dropping Crumbs and Tomahawk are one the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evolution
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the other.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Each time we decided to create a new theme instead of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> replacing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> existing just to avoid problems to users.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My proposal is to remove Bluelight, Dropping Crumbs and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BizznessTime
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the trunk and put them in a separate themes repository as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> suggested by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Remove the actual version of the Flat Grey from the trunk and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> put it in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes repository.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Improve the Flat Grey theme in the trunk with the work you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> guys
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In this way we will have in the trunk two themes for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> backend
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Actual
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> FlatGrey and Tomahawk) and two themes for the ecommerce
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Default
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Multiflex).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In the themes repository there will be Bluelight, Dropping
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Crumbs,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BizznessTime and the actual FlatGrey.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It could be a nice start for the theme repository (and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gallery)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> start.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Bruno
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2011/1/6 Jacques Le Roux<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  inline...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 6, 2011, at 11:38 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  Jacques,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  I understand your concerns about support, and your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thoughts
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes has some valid points. However, in regards to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BizznessTime theme, I never really intended for that to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "my"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anyway. I always viewed it as a community theme as that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was it's original intent and it was truly a collaborative
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> effort to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> build it between myself, my colleagues at HotWax,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BrainFood,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and other members of the the OFBiz community.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Right, sorry for that Ryan. It's only because I know you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "fathers" (the most important I guess) and helped much
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at the beginning, my apologies.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> At any rate, my time issues and focus have shifted
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> significantly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the last few months as I have left HotWax and gone into
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  independent consulting and freelance development. I plan
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> much more active role in the community in the months and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> years ahead.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's really a good, very good news!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As far as theme contributions go, I wonder if maybe it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> good
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> idea to have a theme repo outside of the trunk that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  individuals could commit to? The problem with theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maintenance
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> once
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> new theme has been added to the trunk is that not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone has commit privileges to the trunk. This makes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> process
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maintenance a lot more time consuming for individual
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contributors as they have to rely on patches, updates,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> collaboration,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc, rather than just monitoring and maintaining their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> own
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> code.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This could certainly be discussed as themes are no
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blocking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> parts
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> long
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as *at least one works "perfectly"* (another way is to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> become committer), opinions?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think the way that Magento and Wordpress do it are good
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> examples.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  With
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wordpress, there is one "official" theme that is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> included with the install, but there are literally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thousands
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of themes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that are not maintained by Wordpress that they list on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there site http://wordpress.org/extend/themes/, and now
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the 3.0
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> release you can even search for new themes and install them
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> automatically from inside your Wordpress install. Doing it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this way
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fosters wider community support by delegating maintenance
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> these themes to individual contributors rather than forcing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> handful of committers and also allows developers to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> monetize
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there contributions by offering "premium" themes and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> plugins. In
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fact,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there are many individuals and companies in the Wordpress
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> community that make their living solely by selling themes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> plugins.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This furthers solidifies the base of support for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> project by offering a mid-tier option for someone who wants
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than OOTB but can't necessarily afford custom
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> development.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This makes good sense indeed. The only difference, I guess,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  unfortunately the width of the audience. This does not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mean
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not try...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 6, 2011, at 8:17 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  From my perspective, I don't see much chance in the Flat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grey
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visual
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme being abandoned. Enough people use it that it will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  get the attention it needs. If Ryan isn't available to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fix
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can fix it. If I'm not available, someone else could
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fix it, etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/6/2011 6:02 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  Your screen copies at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-4092
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> looks really great! Looking forward for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> implementation...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My concerns are that maybe you will not have enough
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> time
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> later to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> keep
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> up with possible bugs or other issues. Look for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> instance
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happened
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to Bizzness Time
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-2398
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Even if it looks a bit old, we have a theme which works
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> great. Why
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taking any risks with it? Also I can't see any issues
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> having
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes. The more we have the better, I like to have the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> choice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Some
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (rare) people prefer to use old things, see games
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> machines or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> synthesizers for instance (I still love the DX-7 sound
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_DX7
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.vintagesynth.com/yamaha/dx7.php)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are any evolved version of Flat Grey yet. So this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1st
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> modern one still using the RTL mechanism introduced by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Adrian.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> choice the name!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> IMO I see no reason to have a "Flat Grey Evolution"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> right, the Flat Grey theme hasn't had a visual update
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> years and it looks very dated. It needs some love.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not add
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> another improved version, let's just improve the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> version we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have now. I think that is more efficient and more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> beneficial in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> long run.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As far as the tabs go, we can still keep a horizontal,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tab-like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> navigation without actually having the tabs look like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tabs.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because, the absolutely do look terrible displayed in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> two
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rows.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Adrian, I would be happy to collaborate with you on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think I have some ideas that could help. Email me
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> directly if you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to hash out some ideas outside of this mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> discussion.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Consequently, as far as new admin themes go, I guess I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can use
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an opportunity as well to drop a teaser about a new
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have been working on already for some time now that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> honestly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hope
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will become the go-to theme for scalability and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> customization, and that will eventually replace the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Flat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grey
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> altogether. The new theme scales down very well to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 800x600
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and has minimal styling for maximum flexibility and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> customization.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stay tuned for more details in the next few days...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 3, 2011, at 11:04 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chiclet refers to a brand of chewing gum. The tabs
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> look
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pieces
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of Chiclets chewing gum. They look terrible when they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  displayed in two rows.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Mon, 1/3/11, Jacques Le Roux<
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> By "chiclet" main navigation style,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  you mean the tabs? Then I think we should keep Flat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grey as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it is (because there are advantages
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to have tabs) and create a Flat Grey evolution...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Adrian Crum"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was thinking we could use colors from the Apache
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> logo
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  and the BizznessTime theme. I would also like to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rid of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  the "chiclet"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> main navigation style, and maybe have that menu in a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  collapsible left column.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Sun, 1/2/11, Sascha Rodekamp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Sascha
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rodekamp<[hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  Subject: Re: Discussion: Flat Grey Visual Theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  To: [hidden email],
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Jacques Le Roux"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  Date: Sunday, January 2, 2011, 2:27 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  I really would appreciate to keep the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  Flat Gray. But you're right it needs a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> few visual improvements.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me think about this, maybe somethink comes to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my mind
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  ..... :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  Cheers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2010/12/29 Jacques Le
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Roux<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> IIRW, it's the only really RTL capable. So a big
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> YES
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to keep
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  I have no ideas though :/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Adrian Crum"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Flat Grey visual theme is getting old.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The current version of the theme is based on the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> original
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  look
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and feel of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OFBiz when I first joined the community - back
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2004.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Around
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Spring of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2007 I added some gradient gifs to make the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> original style
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> little more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interesting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After that, the visual theme was converted to a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> floating
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> flexible layout
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (to fit any size screen), it was made
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sight-impaired accessible (font size
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  can be changed), and it added support for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bi-directional
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  layout
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (for rtl
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  languages). Those design decisions were made by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OFBiz
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> community and, in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my opinion, continue to make the Flat Grey theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fallback
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme when all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> else fails. It just works.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Despite its advantages, it looks dated. I would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> update
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it to make
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it more modern, but maintain its advantages over
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes. I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking it only needs css and gif file updates.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> current
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> templates and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> javascripts would be maintained.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If anyone is interested, they are welcome to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> help
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> appreciate any suggestions or comments.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me know what you think.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  Sascha Rodekamp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lynx-Consulting GmbH
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Johanniskirchplatz 6
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> D-33615 Bielefeld
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.lynx.de
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>

[Bruno Busco]

> You do bring up an interesting idea though...
>
> Say for instance we have just 2 themes in the OOTB installation with a link
> under the selection list that said "get more themes".  Clicking that would
> bring up a list of themes in an external themes repo.  We could then have a
> script that allows the user to grab the external themes XML seed data and
> download the themes assets to their installed instance.  Might be a good
> idea for a future enhancement.
>
>

That's nice indeed !!

[BJ Freeman]

Please make that a configurable option, since in a SAS, muiltitenant
environment that may not be advisable.

=========================
BJ Freeman
Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation  <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
Specialtymarket.com  <http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist

Chat  Y! messenger: bjfr33man


Bruno Busco sent the following on 1/7/2011 11:54 AM:

>> You do bring up an interesting idea though...
>>
>> Say for instance we have just 2 themes in the OOTB installation with a link
>> under the selection list that said "get more themes".  Clicking that would
>> bring up a list of themes in an external themes repo.  We could then have a
>> script that allows the user to grab the external themes XML seed data and
>> download the themes assets to their installed instance.  Might be a good
>> idea for a future enhancement.
>>
>>
> That's nice indeed !!
>

[BJ Freeman]

thanks for clarifying

=========================
BJ Freeman
Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation  <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
Specialtymarket.com  <http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist

Chat  Y! messenger: bjfr33man


Bruno Busco sent the following on 1/7/2011 11:52 AM:

> I a not saying that actual themes are dependent from each other. At least I
> am not aware of this dependency.
> I mean that, generally, a theme A is dependent from theme B than you cannot
> download theme A from the Theme Gallery and install it if you do not install
> theme B also. That simple.
>
>
> 2011/1/7 BJ Freeman<[hidden email]>
>
>> to paraphrase what I think you said
>> the current themes are not independent of each other so can not be removed,
>> without causing failure in another
>>
>> The links you gave and the themes depository in wiki will not facilitate an
>> end user on selecting or installing the themes from ofbiz like the current
>> theme selection.
>>
>> again the rule is not to remove what is already put in Update and modify
>> only.
>>
>> Now if all new themes are put in the themes gallery I see no problem with
>> that.
>>
>>
>> =========================
>> BJ Freeman
>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation<
>> http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>
>> Chat  Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>
>>
>> Bruno Busco sent the following on 1/7/2011 4:06 AM:
>>
>>   Dependencies between themes do not allow modular selection, distribution
>>> and
>>> installation.
>>> Please give a look to these web sites:
>>>
>>> http://www.templatemonster.com/magento-themes.php
>>> http://wordpress.org/extend/themes/
>>> http://drupal.org/project/Themes
>>>
>>> they are all examples of how to maintain themes database.
>>>
>>> In a production installation one can choose between:
>>> - using one of the OOTB themes as it is
>>> - use one of the themes from the theme gallery as it is
>>> - start from one of the OOTB or gallery themes to build a new customized
>>> one
>>>
>>> Moving a theme from OOTB to the theme gallery should not be an issue. It
>>> simply slightly changes the way how a production server is updated.
>>>
>>> -Bruno
>>>
>>> 2011/1/7 Jacques Le Roux<[hidden email]>
>>>
>>>   From: "BJ Freeman"<[hidden email]>
>>>>
>>>>   more the second.
>>>>>
>>>>> however I am reacting more to a pattern change.
>>>>> for instance ecommerce was downgraded from a main app to a
>>>>> specialpurpose.
>>>>> I was not removed. the architecture lets it be moved with out any code
>>>>> changes to custom components already developed against it.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Yes, I completly understand your point... And I guess you are not alone
>>>> in
>>>> this situation...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>   related to themes, and multitenacy, not every user is going to want the
>>>>
>>>>> same theme so the themes folder will be filled with `100's eventually.
>>>>>
>>>>> the script I started,
>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-3490
>>>>> is getting fancier.
>>>>> I can see templates for functionality of themes instead of the themes
>>>>> themselves.
>>>>> the seup app reads the data templateThemeData.xml and modifies it on the
>>>>> fly to the way the customer wants it.
>>>>> This way we don't have a lot of inactive themes and all the
>>>>> possibilities
>>>>> are in the template data.
>>>>> this is a flexible change once the Setup structure is in place.
>>>>> see
>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-635
>>>>> comment - 05/May/09 02:14 PM
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> As I planned initially, to be discussed...
>>>>
>>>> Jacques
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>   =========================
>>>>> BJ Freeman
>>>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation<
>>>>> http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>>>>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>>>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>>>>
>>>>> Chat  Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>>>> Jacques Le Roux sent the following on 1/6/2011 11:15 PM:
>>>>>
>>>>>   OK, that was the reason I had some concerns. Let's discuss it
>>>>>
>>>>>> seriously...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think there are 2 ways to create a new themes from an existing one (a
>>>>>> brand new one is not a problem).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Duplicate an OOTB existing one and peek an poke there (resourceValues
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> ThemeNameThemeData.xml are all refering to locations in this theme)
>>>>>> pros: independent from changes in the original theme (no pb if the
>>>>>> theme
>>>>>> dissapears, is changed for any reasons, etc.)
>>>>>> cons: independent from changes in the original theme (you can't benefit
>>>>>> from bug fixes, improvements, enhancements, etc.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Create a new theme by keeping references to an OOTB existing (some
>>>>>> resourceValues in ThemeNameThemeData.xml are still refering to
>>>>>> locations
>>>>>> in this original theme)
>>>>>> As (almost) ever there are 2 faces to the coin, the pros and cons are
>>>>>> reversed from above.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Which one are you using BJ? I guess the second. Else you would not have
>>>>>> any concerns
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From: "BJ Freeman"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   Adrian i am sure as a business man you understand if it ain't broke
>>>>>>> don't fix it.
>>>>>>> Now if you talking about new themes I can agree, but no one has
>>>>>>> proposed any or give an price.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> =========================
>>>>>>> BJ Freeman
>>>>>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation
>>>>>>> <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>>>>>>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>>>>>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Adrian Crum sent the following on 1/6/2011 3:23 PM:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   That can go both ways. If your deployments depends upon the visual
>>>>>>>> themes being in the trunk, then perhaps you should fund their upkeep.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 1/6/2011 2:58 PM, BJ Freeman wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>   so you will be glad to fund the effort to do that.
>>>>>>>>> Time is money. and anything the effects the ROI needs to be
>>>>>>>>> considered,
>>>>>>>>> if the software is to be widely accepted.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> =========================
>>>>>>>>> BJ Freeman
>>>>>>>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation
>>>>>>>>> <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>>>>>>>>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>>>>>>>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ryan Foster sent the following on 1/6/2011 2:51 PM:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>   I completely agree with you BJ. Considerations definitely have to
>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>> made when things are removed, especially if they are tied to the
>>>>>>>>>> framework. What is being discussed is whether to remove themes,
>>>>>>>>>> which
>>>>>>>>>> can be hot-deployed from being maintained in the trunk. For future
>>>>>>>>>> releases, all you would need to do is manually add your themes,
>>>>>>>>>> custom
>>>>>>>>>> or otherwise, to your production instance. If they are no longer
>>>>>>>>>> tied
>>>>>>>>>> in svn to the trunk, they would not be effected by any updates or
>>>>>>>>>> releases.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 6, 2011, at 3:40 PM, BJ Freeman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>   so there will not be any more releases based on the trunk?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I was speaking in the future when 11.04 or 12.04 happen.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> it is the disregard of those that actually use this software
>>>>>>>>>>> instead
>>>>>>>>>>> of just enjoy developing it.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I am a developer second and a business man first.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> basically you can add all you want but when you want to remove you
>>>>>>>>>>> must consider those that have counted on what was provided.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> =========================
>>>>>>>>>>> BJ Freeman
>>>>>>>>>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier
>>>>>>>>>>> Automation<
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>>>>>>>>>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Bruno Busco sent the following on 1/6/2011 2:33 PM:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>   The theme will still be present in the 10.04 releases.
>>>>>>>>>>>> No production servers should rely on trunk.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> -Bruno
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 2011/1/6 BJ Freeman<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>   I have one that uses the flat grey as default
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> so if I do an update from the svn the flat grey will and my
>>>>>>>>>>>>> customization
>>>>>>>>>>>>> disappear.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> my sas uses all those in the themes, with my modification.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> they will be removed. when the svn update is run.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> those are just a few examples.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> =========================
>>>>>>>>>>>>> BJ Freeman
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation<
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bruno Busco sent the following on 1/6/2011 2:00 PM:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am sorry, BJ, I do not see your point.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What could be the issue?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We will have less themes to maintain in the trunk (just Flat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grey,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tomahawk,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Default and Multiflex).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We will have more people that will be able to maintain
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> additional
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Themes Gallery.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Production servers will have each one its selected theme (one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the OOTB,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one of the Themes Gallery or a customized version of them).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Bruno
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2011/1/6 BJ Freeman<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how about those that are using ofbiz for SAS and will have many
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their clients.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bruno Busco sent the following on 1/6/2011 12:51 PM:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, having more than one theme in the trunk was originally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> accepted in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> order to use and show the visual theme selection feature
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OOTB.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Actually Bluelight, Dropping Crumbs and Tomahawk are one the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evolution
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the other.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Each time we decided to create a new theme instead of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> replacing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> existing just to avoid problems to users.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My proposal is to remove Bluelight, Dropping Crumbs and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BizznessTime
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the trunk and put them in a separate themes repository as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> suggested by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Remove the actual version of the Flat Grey from the trunk and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> put it in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes repository.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Improve the Flat Grey theme in the trunk with the work you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> guys
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In this way we will have in the trunk two themes for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> backend
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Actual
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> FlatGrey and Tomahawk) and two themes for the ecommerce
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Default
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Multiflex).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In the themes repository there will be Bluelight, Dropping
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Crumbs,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BizznessTime and the actual FlatGrey.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It could be a nice start for the theme repository (and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gallery)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> start.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Bruno
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2011/1/6 Jacques Le Roux<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   inline...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 6, 2011, at 11:38 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   Jacques,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   I understand your concerns about support, and your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thoughts
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes has some valid points. However, in regards to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BizznessTime theme, I never really intended for that to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "my"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anyway. I always viewed it as a community theme as that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was it's original intent and it was truly a collaborative
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> effort to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> build it between myself, my colleagues at HotWax,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BrainFood,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and other members of the the OFBiz community.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Right, sorry for that Ryan. It's only because I know you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "fathers" (the most important I guess) and helped much
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at the beginning, my apologies.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> At any rate, my time issues and focus have shifted
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> significantly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the last few months as I have left HotWax and gone into
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   independent consulting and freelance development. I plan
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> much more active role in the community in the months and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> years ahead.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's really a good, very good news!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As far as theme contributions go, I wonder if maybe it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> good
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> idea to have a theme repo outside of the trunk that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   individuals could commit to? The problem with theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maintenance
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> once
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> new theme has been added to the trunk is that not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone has commit privileges to the trunk. This makes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> process
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maintenance a lot more time consuming for individual
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contributors as they have to rely on patches, updates,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> collaboration,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc, rather than just monitoring and maintaining their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> own
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> code.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This could certainly be discussed as themes are no
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blocking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> parts
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> long
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as *at least one works "perfectly"* (another way is to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> become committer), opinions?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think the way that Magento and Wordpress do it are good
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> examples.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   With
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wordpress, there is one "official" theme that is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> included with the install, but there are literally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thousands
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of themes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that are not maintained by Wordpress that they list on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there site http://wordpress.org/extend/themes/, and now
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the 3.0
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> release you can even search for new themes and install them
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> automatically from inside your Wordpress install. Doing it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this way
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fosters wider community support by delegating maintenance
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> these themes to individual contributors rather than forcing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> handful of committers and also allows developers to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> monetize
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there contributions by offering "premium" themes and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> plugins. In
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fact,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there are many individuals and companies in the Wordpress
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> community that make their living solely by selling themes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> plugins.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This furthers solidifies the base of support for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> project by offering a mid-tier option for someone who wants
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than OOTB but can't necessarily afford custom
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> development.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This makes good sense indeed. The only difference, I guess,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   unfortunately the width of the audience. This does not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mean
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not try...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 6, 2011, at 8:17 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   From my perspective, I don't see much chance in the Flat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grey
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visual
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme being abandoned. Enough people use it that it will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   get the attention it needs. If Ryan isn't available to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fix
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can fix it. If I'm not available, someone else could
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fix it, etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/6/2011 6:02 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   Your screen copies at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-4092
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> looks really great! Looking forward for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> implementation...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My concerns are that maybe you will not have enough
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> time
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> later to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> keep
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> up with possible bugs or other issues. Look for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> instance
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happened
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to Bizzness Time
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-2398
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Even if it looks a bit old, we have a theme which works
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> great. Why
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taking any risks with it? Also I can't see any issues
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> having
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes. The more we have the better, I like to have the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> choice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Some
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (rare) people prefer to use old things, see games
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> machines or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> synthesizers for instance (I still love the DX-7 sound
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_DX7
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.vintagesynth.com/yamaha/dx7.php)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are any evolved version of Flat Grey yet. So this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1st
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> modern one still using the RTL mechanism introduced by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Adrian.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> choice the name!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> IMO I see no reason to have a "Flat Grey Evolution"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> right, the Flat Grey theme hasn't had a visual update
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> years and it looks very dated. It needs some love.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not add
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> another improved version, let's just improve the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> version we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have now. I think that is more efficient and more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> beneficial in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> long run.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As far as the tabs go, we can still keep a horizontal,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tab-like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> navigation without actually having the tabs look like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tabs.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because, the absolutely do look terrible displayed in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> two
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rows.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Adrian, I would be happy to collaborate with you on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think I have some ideas that could help. Email me
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> directly if you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to hash out some ideas outside of this mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> discussion.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Consequently, as far as new admin themes go, I guess I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can use
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an opportunity as well to drop a teaser about a new
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have been working on already for some time now that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> honestly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hope
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will become the go-to theme for scalability and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> customization, and that will eventually replace the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Flat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grey
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> altogether. The new theme scales down very well to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 800x600
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and has minimal styling for maximum flexibility and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> customization.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stay tuned for more details in the next few days...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 3, 2011, at 11:04 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chiclet refers to a brand of chewing gum. The tabs
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> look
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pieces
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of Chiclets chewing gum. They look terrible when they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   displayed in two rows.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Mon, 1/3/11, Jacques Le Roux<
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> By "chiclet" main navigation style,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   you mean the tabs? Then I think we should keep Flat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grey as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it is (because there are advantages
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to have tabs) and create a Flat Grey evolution...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Adrian Crum"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was thinking we could use colors from the Apache
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> logo
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   and the BizznessTime theme. I would also like to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rid of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   the "chiclet"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> main navigation style, and maybe have that menu in a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   collapsible left column.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Sun, 1/2/11, Sascha Rodekamp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Sascha
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rodekamp<[hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   Subject: Re: Discussion: Flat Grey Visual Theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   To: [hidden email],
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Jacques Le Roux"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   Date: Sunday, January 2, 2011, 2:27 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   I really would appreciate to keep the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   Flat Gray. But you're right it needs a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> few visual improvements.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me think about this, maybe somethink comes to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my mind
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   ..... :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   Cheers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2010/12/29 Jacques Le
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Roux<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> IIRW, it's the only really RTL capable. So a big
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> YES
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to keep
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   I have no ideas though :/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Adrian Crum"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Flat Grey visual theme is getting old.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The current version of the theme is based on the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> original
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   look
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and feel of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OFBiz when I first joined the community - back
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2004.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Around
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Spring of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2007 I added some gradient gifs to make the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> original style
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> little more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interesting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After that, the visual theme was converted to a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> floating
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> flexible layout
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (to fit any size screen), it was made
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sight-impaired accessible (font size
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   can be changed), and it added support for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bi-directional
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   layout
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (for rtl
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   languages). Those design decisions were made by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OFBiz
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> community and, in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my opinion, continue to make the Flat Grey theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fallback
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme when all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> else fails. It just works.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Despite its advantages, it looks dated. I would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> update
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it to make
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it more modern, but maintain its advantages over
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes. I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking it only needs css and gif file updates.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> current
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> templates and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> javascripts would be maintained.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If anyone is interested, they are welcome to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> help
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> appreciate any suggestions or comments.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me know what you think.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   Sascha Rodekamp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lynx-Consulting GmbH
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Johanniskirchplatz 6
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> D-33615 Bielefeld
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.lynx.de
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>

[BJ Freeman]

the route I am headed is to use Gimp's macro to allow users to create Themes

=========================
BJ Freeman
Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation  <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
Specialtymarket.com  <http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist

Chat  Y! messenger: bjfr33man


Ryan Foster sent the following on 1/7/2011 11:44 AM:

> I don't want to misquote Bruno, but I believe what he was saying was "if we create dependencies" between themes, it does not allow modular selection, distribution, and installation.  Not that those dependencies already exist, because they don't.
>
> I am not saying that I want to "get paid" for all of the themes I create, I'm simply suggesting it would be better in the long run if we leave modularized theming options open, monetized or otherwise, and let the user pick and choose what they want to install.  Installing themes does not require a paid consultant to install.  A new theme can be installed on-the-fly using the xml data import feature in webtools in a few minutes, with very little knowledge or instruction.
>
> You do bring up an interesting idea though...
>
> Say for instance we have just 2 themes in the OOTB installation with a link under the selection list that said "get more themes".  Clicking that would bring up a list of themes in an external themes repo.  We could then have a script that allows the user to grab the external themes XML seed data and download the themes assets to their installed instance.  Might be a good idea for a future enhancement.
>
> Ryan L. Foster
> 801.671.0769
> [hidden email]
>
> On Jan 7, 2011, at 11:17 AM, BJ Freeman wrote:
>
>> Bruno says:
>> "Dependencies between themes do not allow modular selection, distribution and installation."
>> You say they are modular.
>>
>> David has commented that he started this project with Idea that Trained consultants in ofbiz would be paid to install modify, and customize ofbiz.
>> That model in my opinion does not work, as David has since said, with open source. Especially being in ASF.
>> I have some modules that once the design time has be amortized I will release to open source. Till then they cost.
>>
>> However my main thrust with ofbiz is first make it widely accepted so by sheer numbers, there will those that want to hire consultants. So my focus is a good online embedded Doc and help, along with a flexible and powerful setup that will lead a end user through a complete setup.
>> Part of that setup is a java based component that will go get ofbiz and download it then ask if  they want demo or Production setup.  I can see in that phase of the setup making the end user aware of themes in galleries they can then have installed.
>>
>> To that end I believe the current themes should be left in place and future themes that people want to "get paid for" be put on their own website where they can amortize their efforts.
>>
>>
>>
>> =========================
>>
>> BJ Freeman
>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation<http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>
>> Chat  Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>
>>
>> Ryan Foster sent the following on 1/7/2011 8:52 AM:
>>> I understand BJ concerns, but again, I'm with Bruno on this.  Themes are modular and preferential by nature.  Not every user will want or have a need for every theme.  For instance, if I develop a women's boutique front-end theme, it may be of great interest to an owner of a women's boutique but the owner of an auto parts store could probably care less.  Why not leave 2-3 "official release" themes in the trunk that are up to date and maintained consistently by the community and move everything else to an external directory.  Then, let the user/developer pick and choose what themes to install.
>>>
>>> In the end, we all decide whether we want to contribute the code we develop back to the code base or not.  For existing themes, my vote is to keep the active themes in the trunk and move the deprecated/ unsupported / "un-evolved" themes out to the theme gallery.  This means BizznessTime?(which unfortunately seems to be rapidly losing community backing), Bluelight, and DroppingCrumbs.
>>>
>>> For future themes that I develop, the choice is easy for me.  I will simply not grant the theme ASF license to be included in the trunk.  I will release the theme to the public and post the theme to the theme gallery or distribute through some other method.  If we decide to create a new theme from Flat Grey, I am calling the new theme Dorian Gray (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorian_Gray).  The new theme will continue to look young, fresh and modern, while it's reflection, Flat Grey, will continue to look older and more dated with each passing year... ;)
>>>
>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>> 801.671.0769
>>> [hidden email]
>>>
>>> On Jan 7, 2011, at 5:06 AM, Bruno Busco wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dependencies between themes do not allow modular selection, distribution and
>>>> installation.
>>>> Please give a look to these web sites:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.templatemonster.com/magento-themes.php
>>>> http://wordpress.org/extend/themes/
>>>> http://drupal.org/project/Themes
>>>>
>>>> they are all examples of how to maintain themes database.
>>>>
>>>> In a production installation one can choose between:
>>>> - using one of the OOTB themes as it is
>>>> - use one of the themes from the theme gallery as it is
>>>> - start from one of the OOTB or gallery themes to build a new customized one
>>>>
>>>> Moving a theme from OOTB to the theme gallery should not be an issue. It
>>>> simply slightly changes the way how a production server is updated.
>>>>
>>>> -Bruno
>>>>
>>>> 2011/1/7 Jacques Le Roux<[hidden email]>
>>>>
>>>>> From: "BJ Freeman"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>
>>>>>> more the second.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> however I am reacting more to a pattern change.
>>>>>> for instance ecommerce was downgraded from a main app to a specialpurpose.
>>>>>> I was not removed. the architecture lets it be moved with out any code
>>>>>> changes to custom components already developed against it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, I completly understand your point... And I guess you are not alone in
>>>>> this situation...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> related to themes, and multitenacy, not every user is going to want the
>>>>>> same theme so the themes folder will be filled with `100's eventually.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> the script I started,
>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-3490
>>>>>> is getting fancier.
>>>>>> I can see templates for functionality of themes instead of the themes
>>>>>> themselves.
>>>>>> the seup app reads the data templateThemeData.xml and modifies it on the
>>>>>> fly to the way the customer wants it.
>>>>>> This way we don't have a lot of inactive themes and all the possibilities
>>>>>> are in the template data.
>>>>>> this is a flexible change once the Setup structure is in place.
>>>>>> see
>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-635
>>>>>> comment - 05/May/09 02:14 PM
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> As I planned initially, to be discussed...
>>>>>
>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> =========================
>>>>>> BJ Freeman
>>>>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation<
>>>>>> http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>>>>>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>>>>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chat  Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>>>>> Jacques Le Roux sent the following on 1/6/2011 11:15 PM:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> OK, that was the reason I had some concerns. Let's discuss it
>>>>>>> seriously...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think there are 2 ways to create a new themes from an existing one (a
>>>>>>> brand new one is not a problem).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Duplicate an OOTB existing one and peek an poke there (resourceValues in
>>>>>>> ThemeNameThemeData.xml are all refering to locations in this theme)
>>>>>>> pros: independent from changes in the original theme (no pb if the theme
>>>>>>> dissapears, is changed for any reasons, etc.)
>>>>>>> cons: independent from changes in the original theme (you can't benefit
>>>>>>> from bug fixes, improvements, enhancements, etc.)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Create a new theme by keeping references to an OOTB existing (some
>>>>>>> resourceValues in ThemeNameThemeData.xml are still refering to locations
>>>>>>> in this original theme)
>>>>>>> As (almost) ever there are 2 faces to the coin, the pros and cons are
>>>>>>> reversed from above.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Which one are you using BJ? I guess the second. Else you would not have
>>>>>>> any concerns
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: "BJ Freeman"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Adrian i am sure as a business man you understand if it ain't broke
>>>>>>>> don't fix it.
>>>>>>>> Now if you talking about new themes I can agree, but no one has
>>>>>>>> proposed any or give an price.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> =========================
>>>>>>>> BJ Freeman
>>>>>>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation
>>>>>>>> <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>>>>>>>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>>>>>>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Adrian Crum sent the following on 1/6/2011 3:23 PM:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That can go both ways. If your deployments depends upon the visual
>>>>>>>>> themes being in the trunk, then perhaps you should fund their upkeep.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 1/6/2011 2:58 PM, BJ Freeman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> so you will be glad to fund the effort to do that.
>>>>>>>>>> Time is money. and anything the effects the ROI needs to be
>>>>>>>>>> considered,
>>>>>>>>>> if the software is to be widely accepted.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> =========================
>>>>>>>>>> BJ Freeman
>>>>>>>>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation
>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>>>>>>>>>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>>>>>>>>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Ryan Foster sent the following on 1/6/2011 2:51 PM:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I completely agree with you BJ. Considerations definitely have to be
>>>>>>>>>>> made when things are removed, especially if they are tied to the
>>>>>>>>>>> framework. What is being discussed is whether to remove themes, which
>>>>>>>>>>> can be hot-deployed from being maintained in the trunk. For future
>>>>>>>>>>> releases, all you would need to do is manually add your themes,
>>>>>>>>>>> custom
>>>>>>>>>>> or otherwise, to your production instance. If they are no longer tied
>>>>>>>>>>> in svn to the trunk, they would not be effected by any updates or
>>>>>>>>>>> releases.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 6, 2011, at 3:40 PM, BJ Freeman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> so there will not be any more releases based on the trunk?
>>>>>>>>>>>> I was speaking in the future when 11.04 or 12.04 happen.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> it is the disregard of those that actually use this software instead
>>>>>>>>>>>> of just enjoy developing it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I am a developer second and a business man first.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> basically you can add all you want but when you want to remove you
>>>>>>>>>>>> must consider those that have counted on what was provided.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> =========================
>>>>>>>>>>>> BJ Freeman
>>>>>>>>>>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier
>>>>>>>>>>>> Automation<
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Bruno Busco sent the following on 1/6/2011 2:33 PM:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The theme will still be present in the 10.04 releases.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> No production servers should rely on trunk.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Bruno
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2011/1/6 BJ Freeman<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have one that uses the flat grey as default
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so if I do an update from the svn the flat grey will and my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> customization
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disappear.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my sas uses all those in the themes, with my modification.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they will be removed. when the svn update is run.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> those are just a few examples.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> =========================
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BJ Freeman
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation<
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bruno Busco sent the following on 1/6/2011 2:00 PM:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am sorry, BJ, I do not see your point.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What could be the issue?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We will have less themes to maintain in the trunk (just Flat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grey,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tomahawk,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Default and Multiflex).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We will have more people that will be able to maintain additional
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Themes Gallery.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Production servers will have each one its selected theme (one of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the OOTB,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one of the Themes Gallery or a customized version of them).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Bruno
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2011/1/6 BJ Freeman<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how about those that are using ofbiz for SAS and will have many
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their clients.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bruno Busco sent the following on 1/6/2011 12:51 PM:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, having more than one theme in the trunk was originally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> accepted in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> order to use and show the visual theme selection feature OOTB.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Actually Bluelight, Dropping Crumbs and Tomahawk are one the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evolution
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the other.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Each time we decided to create a new theme instead of replacing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> existing just to avoid problems to users.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My proposal is to remove Bluelight, Dropping Crumbs and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BizznessTime
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the trunk and put them in a separate themes repository as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> suggested by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Remove the actual version of the Flat Grey from the trunk and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> put it in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes repository.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Improve the Flat Grey theme in the trunk with the work you guys
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In this way we will have in the trunk two themes for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> backend
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Actual
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> FlatGrey and Tomahawk) and two themes for the ecommerce
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Default
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Multiflex).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In the themes repository there will be Bluelight, Dropping
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Crumbs,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BizznessTime and the actual FlatGrey.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It could be a nice start for the theme repository (and gallery)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> start.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Bruno
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2011/1/6 Jacques Le Roux<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> inline...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 6, 2011, at 11:38 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I understand your concerns about support, and your thoughts
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes has some valid points. However, in regards to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BizznessTime theme, I never really intended for that to be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "my"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anyway. I always viewed it as a community theme as that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was it's original intent and it was truly a collaborative
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> effort to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> build it between myself, my colleagues at HotWax,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BrainFood,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and other members of the the OFBiz community.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Right, sorry for that Ryan. It's only because I know you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "fathers" (the most important I guess) and helped much
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at the beginning, my apologies.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> At any rate, my time issues and focus have shifted
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> significantly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the last few months as I have left HotWax and gone into
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> independent consulting and freelance development. I plan on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> much more active role in the community in the months and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> years ahead.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's really a good, very good news!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As far as theme contributions go, I wonder if maybe it would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> good
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> idea to have a theme repo outside of the trunk that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> individuals could commit to? The problem with theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maintenance
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> once
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> new theme has been added to the trunk is that not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone has commit privileges to the trunk. This makes the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> process
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maintenance a lot more time consuming for individual
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contributors as they have to rely on patches, updates,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> collaboration,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc, rather than just monitoring and maintaining their own
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> code.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This could certainly be discussed as themes are no blocking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> parts
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> long
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as *at least one works "perfectly"* (another way is to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> become committer), opinions?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think the way that Magento and Wordpress do it are good
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> examples.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wordpress, there is one "official" theme that is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> included with the install, but there are literally thousands
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of themes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that are not maintained by Wordpress that they list on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there site http://wordpress.org/extend/themes/, and now with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the 3.0
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> release you can even search for new themes and install them
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> automatically from inside your Wordpress install. Doing it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this way
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fosters wider community support by delegating maintenance of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> these themes to individual contributors rather than forcing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> handful of committers and also allows developers to monetize
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there contributions by offering "premium" themes and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> plugins. In
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fact,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there are many individuals and companies in the Wordpress
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> community that make their living solely by selling themes and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> plugins.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This furthers solidifies the base of support for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> project by offering a mid-tier option for someone who wants
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than OOTB but can't necessarily afford custom
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> development.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This makes good sense indeed. The only difference, I guess,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unfortunately the width of the audience. This does not mean
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not try...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 6, 2011, at 8:17 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  From my perspective, I don't see much chance in the Flat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grey
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visual
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme being abandoned. Enough people use it that it will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get the attention it needs. If Ryan isn't available to fix
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can fix it. If I'm not available, someone else could
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fix it, etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/6/2011 6:02 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your screen copies at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-4092
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> looks really great! Looking forward for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> implementation...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My concerns are that maybe you will not have enough time
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> later to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> keep
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> up with possible bugs or other issues. Look for instance
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happened
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to Bizzness Time
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-2398
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Even if it looks a bit old, we have a theme which works
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> great. Why
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taking any risks with it? Also I can't see any issues
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> having
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes. The more we have the better, I like to have the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> choice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Some
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (rare) people prefer to use old things, see games
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> machines or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> synthesizers for instance (I still love the DX-7 sound
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_DX7
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.vintagesynth.com/yamaha/dx7.php)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are any evolved version of Flat Grey yet. So this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1st
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> modern one still using the RTL mechanism introduced by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Adrian.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> choice the name!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan Foster wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> IMO I see no reason to have a "Flat Grey Evolution"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> right, the Flat Grey theme hasn't had a visual update in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> years and it looks very dated. It needs some love. Let's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not add
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> another improved version, let's just improve the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> version we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have now. I think that is more efficient and more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> beneficial in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> long run.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As far as the tabs go, we can still keep a horizontal,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tab-like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> navigation without actually having the tabs look like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tabs.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because, the absolutely do look terrible displayed in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> two
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rows.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Adrian, I would be happy to collaborate with you on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think I have some ideas that could help. Email me
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> directly if you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to hash out some ideas outside of this mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> discussion.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Consequently, as far as new admin themes go, I guess I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can use
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an opportunity as well to drop a teaser about a new
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have been working on already for some time now that I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> honestly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hope
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will become the go-to theme for scalability and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> customization, and that will eventually replace the Flat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grey
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> altogether. The new theme scales down very well to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 800x600
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and has minimal styling for maximum flexibility and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> customization.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stay tuned for more details in the next few days...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan L. Foster
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 801.671.0769
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 3, 2011, at 11:04 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chiclet refers to a brand of chewing gum. The tabs look
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pieces
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of Chiclets chewing gum. They look terrible when they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> displayed in two rows.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Mon, 1/3/11, Jacques Le Roux<
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> By "chiclet" main navigation style,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you mean the tabs? Then I think we should keep Flat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grey as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it is (because there are advantages
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to have tabs) and create a Flat Grey evolution...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Adrian Crum"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was thinking we could use colors from the Apache
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> logo
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the BizznessTime theme. I would also like to get
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rid of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the "chiclet"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> main navigation style, and maybe have that menu in a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> collapsible left column.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Sun, 1/2/11, Sascha Rodekamp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Sascha
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rodekamp<[hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Discussion: Flat Grey Visual Theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: [hidden email],
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Jacques Le Roux"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Sunday, January 2, 2011, 2:27 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I really would appreciate to keep the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Flat Gray. But you're right it needs a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> few visual improvements.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me think about this, maybe somethink comes to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my mind
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ..... :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2010/12/29 Jacques Le
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Roux<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> IIRW, it's the only really RTL capable. So a big YES
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to keep
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have no ideas though :/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Adrian Crum"<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Flat Grey visual theme is getting old.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The current version of the theme is based on the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> original
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> look
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and feel of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OFBiz when I first joined the community - back in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2004.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Around
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Spring of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2007 I added some gradient gifs to make the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> original style
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> little more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interesting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After that, the visual theme was converted to a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> floating
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> flexible layout
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (to fit any size screen), it was made
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sight-impaired accessible (font size
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can be changed), and it added support for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bi-directional
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> layout
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (for rtl
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> languages). Those design decisions were made by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OFBiz
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> community and, in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my opinion, continue to make the Flat Grey theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fallback
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme when all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> else fails. It just works.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Despite its advantages, it looks dated. I would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> update
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it to make
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it more modern, but maintain its advantages over
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes. I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking it only needs css and gif file updates.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> current
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> templates and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> javascripts would be maintained.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If anyone is interested, they are welcome to help
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> appreciate any suggestions or comments.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me know what you think.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sascha Rodekamp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lynx-Consulting GmbH
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Johanniskirchplatz 6
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> D-33615 Bielefeld
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.lynx.de
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

[Bruno Busco]

Yes, it makes sense to have it configurable.

2011/1/7 BJ Freeman <[hidden email]>

> Please make that a configurable option, since in a SAS, muiltitenant
> environment that may not be advisable.
>
>
> =========================
> BJ Freeman
> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation  <
> http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
> Specialtymarket.com  <http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>
> Chat  Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>
>
> Bruno Busco sent the following on 1/7/2011 11:54 AM:
>
>  You do bring up an interesting idea though...
>>>
>>> Say for instance we have just 2 themes in the OOTB installation with a
>>> link
>>> under the selection list that said "get more themes".  Clicking that
>>> would
>>> bring up a list of themes in an external themes repo.  We could then have
>>> a
>>> script that allows the user to grab the external themes XML seed data and
>>> download the themes assets to their installed instance.  Might be a good
>>> idea for a future enhancement.
>>>
>>>
>>>  That's nice indeed !!
>>
>>
>