Idea: OFBiz self-hosting

[Scott Gray]

Makes sense, thanks Adam

Regards
Scott

2008/11/14 Adam Heath <[hidden email]>:

> Scott Gray wrote:
>> Hi Adam,
>>
>> I'm no transaction expert but how sure are we that starting a new
>> transaction just before each test and rolling it back at the end won't
>> work?  From what I can gather Derby does actually alter the database
>> prior to committing the transaction but it also creates log records
>> that allow the changes to undone in case of a rollback.
>>
>> I just tried it using the JUnitListener class to start and end a
>> transaction and I can't see any obvious negative effects (aside from
>> tests failing that relied on data created in previous tests).
>
> The reason that won't work, is that some services are configured to run
> in a *separate* transaction, completely separate from the one that is in
> the current thread.  In those cases, the current transaction is
> suspended, then resumed.
>
> To do the transaction rollback stuff in those cases, becomes rather more
> complex.  It's just simpler to save the disk files, and revert them all,
> between tests.  Just need to make certain any background threads are
> restarted/shutdown.
>

[David E Jones-3]

On Nov 13, 2008, at 6:57 PM, Adam Heath wrote:

> Scott Gray wrote:
>> Hi Adam,
>>
>> I'm no transaction expert but how sure are we that starting a new
>> transaction just before each test and rolling it back at the end  
>> won't
>> work?  From what I can gather Derby does actually alter the database
>> prior to committing the transaction but it also creates log records
>> that allow the changes to undone in case of a rollback.
>>
>> I just tried it using the JUnitListener class to start and end a
>> transaction and I can't see any obvious negative effects (aside from
>> tests failing that relied on data created in previous tests).
>
> The reason that won't work, is that some services are configured to  
> run
> in a *separate* transaction, completely separate from the one that  
> is in
> the current thread.  In those cases, the current transaction is
> suspended, then resumed.
>
> To do the transaction rollback stuff in those cases, becomes rather  
> more
> complex.  It's just simpler to save the disk files, and revert them  
> all,
> between tests.  Just need to make certain any background threads are
> restarted/shutdown.

Yes, this is a good point. It should only be the ones that do a  
suspend/resume that cause a problem, but there could be other things  
too.

I just did a quick run on my machine and found that loading the seed  
and demo data takes about 41 seconds. To do this while running we'd  
need to truncate all tables and then reload the seed data, which would  
take a bit more time (probably have to drop all foreign keys, truncate  
tables, restore fks).

The tar method on my machine is quite a bit faster, and uses a file  
that is nearly 100MB. I guess the trick is... can we do that while  
OFBiz is running? In other words, can we stop derby and replace its  
files right under it and then restart it and get it to play nice?

There is a delay restarting OFBiz, but it's not too bad (and probably  
something we could profile and speed up if we wanted to). It would be  
pretty easy to create an ant target that does a fresh run-install,  
saves the runtime/data directory, runs the tests in one component at a  
time, and between them stops ofbiz then resets runtime/data then  
starts ofbiz again.

It will be slower, but maybe not be too bad...

Then we'd just have to introduce a basic rule that the tests in a  
component run together, and can only depend on other tests run  
previously in that component. It would be nice to have more  
independent tests, but we'd require at least that level of independence.

-David

[Jacques Le Roux]

From: "David E Jones" <[hidden email]>
> On Nov 13, 2008, at 1:14 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>
>> Maybe, as David suggested, we could enforce our rules about that (no  new features without tests).
>> I'm afraid this would drastically reduce contributions. Maybe it's  better to have less but more robust.
>
> I don't believe I've ever been in favor of enforcing a rule requiring  new features to be accompanied by automated tests. In fact,
> I think  I've spoken/written against that a number of times.

I misunderstood this sentence then
<<Mobilize test contributors (testtools, selenium, etc), allow
separate people to be involved in contributing tests and contributing
features (don't require test submission, but if anyone wants something
to work in a certain way, they should submit a test for it as our
normal way of doing things)>>

This idea came also because some interesting patches are submitted without sufficient informations on how to test them.
Maybe we could suggest in "How to create a Jira issue" (contributors best practises) to put either, some or all (depending on case)
of

(bugs)
. Detailled steps to reproduce

(New features, improvements)
. Add a separate testing patch (since it's likely that they have tested on their system so they have something we don't). This is
not something we will use later, only to faster main patch test.

Any other ideas welcome here...

> Like you say, this may reduce contributions. The bigger issue with a  community-driven project is that people are motivated by a
> small  number of things:
>
> 1. what they or their clients need (strong)
> 2. social pressure from others in the community (semi-strong)
> 3. desire for recognition (fairly weak)
> 4. desire to create something good/new (fairly weak)
>
> A quick note on the strength of these motivations: I'm not trying to  comment on human nature for all things that a person might
> do, or that  would apply to all people, but I am saying that for business-oriented  software developed in a community-driven model
> these seemed to be what  drive actual quantities of hours and actual refinement of what is  developed.
>
> So, how do we get people to contribute tests? IMO it has nothing to do  with new functionality, it has everything to do with how
> people want  OFBiz to work for them. In short the idea is that if someone wants  something to keep working a certain way they
> should contribute an  automated test for it. It's really that simple, and goes to motivation  #1.
>
> To make it a stronger motivation, we can use motivation #2 as well.  When people say "hey this doesn't work any more", or "it is
> important  that this always work this way" the response in the mailing lists can  always be "great, submit an automated test!".
>
> This allows people to invest in what they care about. Of course, to  make this happen for real and not just seem like a good idea
> we need  the testing tools to be as easy and consistent as possible. It needs  to be easy to create tests, and it needs to be easy
> to run existing  tests and to review what existing tests are and do. Those aren't easy  features to implement. Because of these
> we've discussed using Selenium  because it is easy to record test sequenced that test everything from  the client side UI code to
> the database in and out. However, running  these tests and creating suite of them that can run in an automated  way that is
> organized by component still needs to be done. Even more  difficult, it seems right now, is that Selenium depends on some GPL/
> LGPL libraries, so we can't include them all in OFBiz, which means  that either the Selenium licensing is invalid (in the case of
> GPL  libraries Selenium would have to also be GPL licensed) or at least it  is much more difficult to run the tests because we
> can't include them  in OFBiz.
>
> -David

Selenium looks like a deadlock for us. The team never answered my questions. I think they don't care. Like a lot of people who are
not really understanding licence issues. Actually I believe most of them are uising GPL, that's why they don't care. Maybe also they
think it's not their job, and are only interested in code.

Jacques

[Bruno Busco]

That's great,
but in order to get OFBiz ready, I think we should have it working as a CMS
in a live site where we all have access and with contents that will then be
moved into the Apache server.
Is this possible?

-Bruno

2008/11/13 David E Jones <[hidden email]>

>
> Actually as we get OFBiz ready to run for OFBiz we'll have it hosted on ASF
> infra. The OFBiz resources that are not hosted on ASF infra are actually an
> issue right now that needs to be resolved at some point (ie confluence,
> nightly builds, demo site, etc).
>
> -David
>
>
>
> On Nov 13, 2008, at 12:13 AM, Bruno Busco wrote:
>
>  Hi Enrique,
>> I just bumped this thread up because using OFBiz itself in place of
>> Confluence and even Jira has been discussed in the Apache Symposium
>> (according to David's notes).
>>
>> I think that setting a server up and running is something HWM will do
>> something about.
>> On my end I will more than happy to help this happen and kept running.
>>
>> -Bruno
>>
>>
>> 2008/11/13 Enrique Ruibal <[hidden email]>
>>
>>
>>> Hello Bruno,
>>>
>>> What do you have in mind?, Is there something that can be started on your
>>> end?
>>>
>>> How Can I help with Testing / Documenting stuff?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Enrique R.
>>>
>>> --
>>> View this message in context:
>>> http://www.nabble.com/Idea%3A-OFBiz-self-hosting-tp19235405p20471724.html
>>> Sent from the OFBiz - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>

[Jacques Le Roux]

We should also thing about how to organize the content and how to coordinate our efforts. Subversion allow us to this deal with most
other things (code actually). Why not trying to use it also to maintain our documentation ?
Also should we not clearly separate documentations by goals we intend to reach. This is what is already done with Confluence
workspaces, but maybe we should make this even more clear.

My 2 cts

Jacques

From: "Bruno Busco" <[hidden email]>

> That's great,
> but in order to get OFBiz ready, I think we should have it working as a CMS
> in a live site where we all have access and with contents that will then be
> moved into the Apache server.
> Is this possible?
>
> -Bruno
>
> 2008/11/13 David E Jones <[hidden email]>
>
>>
>> Actually as we get OFBiz ready to run for OFBiz we'll have it hosted on ASF
>> infra. The OFBiz resources that are not hosted on ASF infra are actually an
>> issue right now that needs to be resolved at some point (ie confluence,
>> nightly builds, demo site, etc).
>>
>> -David
>>
>>
>>
>> On Nov 13, 2008, at 12:13 AM, Bruno Busco wrote:
>>
>>  Hi Enrique,
>>> I just bumped this thread up because using OFBiz itself in place of
>>> Confluence and even Jira has been discussed in the Apache Symposium
>>> (according to David's notes).
>>>
>>> I think that setting a server up and running is something HWM will do
>>> something about.
>>> On my end I will more than happy to help this happen and kept running.
>>>
>>> -Bruno
>>>
>>>
>>> 2008/11/13 Enrique Ruibal <[hidden email]>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hello Bruno,
>>>>
>>>> What do you have in mind?, Is there something that can be started on your
>>>> end?
>>>>
>>>> How Can I help with Testing / Documenting stuff?
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Enrique R.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> View this message in context:
>>>> http://www.nabble.com/Idea%3A-OFBiz-self-hosting-tp19235405p20471724.html
>>>> Sent from the OFBiz - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>

[David E Jones-3]

1. create list of activities we want to be able to do with OFBiz (in  
the OFBREQDES space on docs.ofbiz.org)
2. design screens, etc needed for enabling (and dare I say...  
automating) these activities
3. develop and contribute functionality, perhaps in a new component in  
specialpurpose that is just for enabling collaboration on open source  
projects (project mgmt, content mgmt, etc for open source projects)
4. a number of people try to use it locally and send feedback and  
ideas to this mailing list, and refine #1 and repeat
5. get a test server up somewhere for people to try it out in a group  
setting on a small set of content, tasks, etc (possibly optional if #4  
is good enough)
6. deploy to a production server and really start using for OFBiz

If I understand what you are saying, it is like #5. Before trying to  
do that I'd like to at least do #4, and preferably #1-3 before that.

-David

On Nov 16, 2008, at 2:01 AM, Bruno Busco wrote:

> That's great,
> but in order to get OFBiz ready, I think we should have it working  
> as a CMS
> in a live site where we all have access and with contents that will  
> then be
> moved into the Apache server.
> Is this possible?
>
> -Bruno
>
> 2008/11/13 David E Jones <[hidden email]>
>
>>
>> Actually as we get OFBiz ready to run for OFBiz we'll have it  
>> hosted on ASF
>> infra. The OFBiz resources that are not hosted on ASF infra are  
>> actually an
>> issue right now that needs to be resolved at some point (ie  
>> confluence,
>> nightly builds, demo site, etc).
>>
>> -David
>>
>>
>>
>> On Nov 13, 2008, at 12:13 AM, Bruno Busco wrote:
>>
>> Hi Enrique,
>>> I just bumped this thread up because using OFBiz itself in place of
>>> Confluence and even Jira has been discussed in the Apache Symposium
>>> (according to David's notes).
>>>
>>> I think that setting a server up and running is something HWM will  
>>> do
>>> something about.
>>> On my end I will more than happy to help this happen and kept  
>>> running.
>>>
>>> -Bruno
>>>
>>>
>>> 2008/11/13 Enrique Ruibal <[hidden email]>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hello Bruno,
>>>>
>>>> What do you have in mind?, Is there something that can be started  
>>>> on your
>>>> end?
>>>>
>>>> How Can I help with Testing / Documenting stuff?
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Enrique R.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> View this message in context:
>>>> http://www.nabble.com/Idea%3A-OFBiz-self-hosting-tp19235405p20471724.html
>>>> Sent from the OFBiz - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>

[Tim Ruppert]

Whenever the community is ready, we can host an instance for these  
purposes (at least until the ASF is ready to do this).  This is not an  
issue right now since the ASF is not ready to host all of these things  
- nightly builds, demo sites, documentation management, etc - but I  
agree at some point it would be nice if this was all under the ASF  
umbrella.  Whenever they're ready, we'll be more than happy to move  
all of that stuff to the ASF - but for now, if we need additional  
infrastructure, we have a place where it can be hosted, at no charge  
to anyone else, that will meet everyone's needs.

Personally, I think that this all kinda depends when we have  
WebSlinger integrated and into OFBiz officially, as it's the only  
interface I've seen on top of OFBiz that would be possible to replace  
something like Confluence.

Cheers,
Tim
--
Tim Ruppert
HotWax Media
http://www.hotwaxmedia.com

o:801.649.6594
f:801.649.6595

On Nov 16, 2008, at 6:45 AM, David E Jones wrote:

>
> 1. create list of activities we want to be able to do with OFBiz (in  
> the OFBREQDES space on docs.ofbiz.org)
> 2. design screens, etc needed for enabling (and dare I say...  
> automating) these activities
> 3. develop and contribute functionality, perhaps in a new component  
> in specialpurpose that is just for enabling collaboration on open  
> source projects (project mgmt, content mgmt, etc for open source  
> projects)
> 4. a number of people try to use it locally and send feedback and  
> ideas to this mailing list, and refine #1 and repeat
> 5. get a test server up somewhere for people to try it out in a  
> group setting on a small set of content, tasks, etc (possibly  
> optional if #4 is good enough)
> 6. deploy to a production server and really start using for OFBiz
>
> If I understand what you are saying, it is like #5. Before trying to  
> do that I'd like to at least do #4, and preferably #1-3 before that.
>
> -David
>
> On Nov 16, 2008, at 2:01 AM, Bruno Busco wrote:
>
>> That's great,
>> but in order to get OFBiz ready, I think we should have it working  
>> as a CMS
>> in a live site where we all have access and with contents that will  
>> then be
>> moved into the Apache server.
>> Is this possible?
>>
>> -Bruno
>>
>> 2008/11/13 David E Jones <[hidden email]>
>>
>>>
>>> Actually as we get OFBiz ready to run for OFBiz we'll have it  
>>> hosted on ASF
>>> infra. The OFBiz resources that are not hosted on ASF infra are  
>>> actually an
>>> issue right now that needs to be resolved at some point (ie  
>>> confluence,
>>> nightly builds, demo site, etc).
>>>
>>> -David
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Nov 13, 2008, at 12:13 AM, Bruno Busco wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Enrique,
>>>> I just bumped this thread up because using OFBiz itself in place of
>>>> Confluence and even Jira has been discussed in the Apache Symposium
>>>> (according to David's notes).
>>>>
>>>> I think that setting a server up and running is something HWM  
>>>> will do
>>>> something about.
>>>> On my end I will more than happy to help this happen and kept  
>>>> running.
>>>>
>>>> -Bruno
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2008/11/13 Enrique Ruibal <[hidden email]>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Hello Bruno,
>>>>>
>>>>> What do you have in mind?, Is there something that can be  
>>>>> started on your
>>>>> end?
>>>>>
>>>>> How Can I help with Testing / Documenting stuff?
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Enrique R.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> View this message in context:
>>>>> http://www.nabble.com/Idea%3A-OFBiz-self-hosting-tp19235405p20471724.html
>>>>> Sent from the OFBiz - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>

[David E Jones-3]

As we're discussing how we want content management to work...

What about SubVersion is it that you think would be helpful for  
managing documentation in OFBiz?

-David

P.S. On a note of history: using the source repo for docs has been  
discussed before, and in fact used to be how we did it in OFBiz.


On Nov 16, 2008, at 8:36 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:

> We should also thing about how to organize the content and how to  
> coordinate our efforts. Subversion allow us to this deal with most  
> other things (code actually). Why not trying to use it also to  
> maintain our documentation ?
> Also should we not clearly separate documentations by goals we  
> intend to reach. This is what is already done with Confluence  
> workspaces, but maybe we should make this even more clear.
>
> My 2 cts
>
> Jacques
>
> From: "Bruno Busco" <[hidden email]>
>> That's great,
>> but in order to get OFBiz ready, I think we should have it working  
>> as a CMS
>> in a live site where we all have access and with contents that will  
>> then be
>> moved into the Apache server.
>> Is this possible?
>>
>> -Bruno
>>
>> 2008/11/13 David E Jones <[hidden email]>
>>
>>>
>>> Actually as we get OFBiz ready to run for OFBiz we'll have it  
>>> hosted on ASF
>>> infra. The OFBiz resources that are not hosted on ASF infra are  
>>> actually an
>>> issue right now that needs to be resolved at some point (ie  
>>> confluence,
>>> nightly builds, demo site, etc).
>>>
>>> -David
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Nov 13, 2008, at 12:13 AM, Bruno Busco wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Enrique,
>>>> I just bumped this thread up because using OFBiz itself in place of
>>>> Confluence and even Jira has been discussed in the Apache Symposium
>>>> (according to David's notes).
>>>>
>>>> I think that setting a server up and running is something HWM  
>>>> will do
>>>> something about.
>>>> On my end I will more than happy to help this happen and kept  
>>>> running.
>>>>
>>>> -Bruno
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2008/11/13 Enrique Ruibal <[hidden email]>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Hello Bruno,
>>>>>
>>>>> What do you have in mind?, Is there something that can be  
>>>>> started on your
>>>>> end?
>>>>>
>>>>> How Can I help with Testing / Documenting stuff?
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Enrique R.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> View this message in context:
>>>>> http://www.nabble.com/Idea%3A-OFBiz-self-hosting-tp19235405p20471724.html
>>>>> Sent from the OFBiz - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>

[David E Jones-3]

I'm sorry to be contradictory, but I don't think this statement is  
true: "the ASF is not ready to host all of these things - nightly  
builds, demo sites, documentation management, etc"

The ASF infra certainly IS ready for these things, and nearly all  
other projects DO those things on ASF infra. In fact, it has been  
brought up as a concern by a few other people in the foundation that  
OFBiz is not doing these exact things on ASF infra, and we really need  
to address that concern. There are legal and public relations, as well  
as maintenance/etc, concerns. At this point it's enough of an issue  
that I've been asked to include a report on this in the next board  
report, and keep updating status on it in board reports until it is  
complete. The PMC has been discussing this a bit, and Jacques has  
started working on some things for his external servers.

It may be easier to use infra that we're familiar with already, but we  
need to start working with the infra people at the ASF and solving  
some of these problems in more collaboration with them.

Actually, it's a great opportunity to do so now because they may have  
great feedback on things we should do in the apps and/or other things  
we can improve in OFBiz. It was great to meet a lot of the infra  
people at ApacheCon, and even to work side-by-side with a few of them  
digging postholes and pounding nails into a fence. It's definitely  
volunteer driven, but there are good people there to work with. And,  
if anyone gets impatient with what is going on over there... then  
volunteering to work on infra is the appropriate way to resolve that! ;)

-David


On Nov 16, 2008, at 8:54 AM, Tim Ruppert wrote:

> Whenever the community is ready, we can host an instance for these  
> purposes (at least until the ASF is ready to do this).  This is not  
> an issue right now since the ASF is not ready to host all of these  
> things - nightly builds, demo sites, documentation management, etc -  
> but I agree at some point it would be nice if this was all under the  
> ASF umbrella.  Whenever they're ready, we'll be more than happy to  
> move all of that stuff to the ASF - but for now, if we need  
> additional infrastructure, we have a place where it can be hosted,  
> at no charge to anyone else, that will meet everyone's needs.
>
> Personally, I think that this all kinda depends when we have  
> WebSlinger integrated and into OFBiz officially, as it's the only  
> interface I've seen on top of OFBiz that would be possible to  
> replace something like Confluence.
>
> Cheers,
> Tim
> --
> Tim Ruppert
> HotWax Media
> http://www.hotwaxmedia.com
>
> o:801.649.6594
> f:801.649.6595
>
> On Nov 16, 2008, at 6:45 AM, David E Jones wrote:
>
>>
>> 1. create list of activities we want to be able to do with OFBiz  
>> (in the OFBREQDES space on docs.ofbiz.org)
>> 2. design screens, etc needed for enabling (and dare I say...  
>> automating) these activities
>> 3. develop and contribute functionality, perhaps in a new component  
>> in specialpurpose that is just for enabling collaboration on open  
>> source projects (project mgmt, content mgmt, etc for open source  
>> projects)
>> 4. a number of people try to use it locally and send feedback and  
>> ideas to this mailing list, and refine #1 and repeat
>> 5. get a test server up somewhere for people to try it out in a  
>> group setting on a small set of content, tasks, etc (possibly  
>> optional if #4 is good enough)
>> 6. deploy to a production server and really start using for OFBiz
>>
>> If I understand what you are saying, it is like #5. Before trying  
>> to do that I'd like to at least do #4, and preferably #1-3 before  
>> that.
>>
>> -David
>>
>> On Nov 16, 2008, at 2:01 AM, Bruno Busco wrote:
>>
>>> That's great,
>>> but in order to get OFBiz ready, I think we should have it working  
>>> as a CMS
>>> in a live site where we all have access and with contents that  
>>> will then be
>>> moved into the Apache server.
>>> Is this possible?
>>>
>>> -Bruno
>>>
>>> 2008/11/13 David E Jones <[hidden email]>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Actually as we get OFBiz ready to run for OFBiz we'll have it  
>>>> hosted on ASF
>>>> infra. The OFBiz resources that are not hosted on ASF infra are  
>>>> actually an
>>>> issue right now that needs to be resolved at some point (ie  
>>>> confluence,
>>>> nightly builds, demo site, etc).
>>>>
>>>> -David
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Nov 13, 2008, at 12:13 AM, Bruno Busco wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Enrique,
>>>>> I just bumped this thread up because using OFBiz itself in place  
>>>>> of
>>>>> Confluence and even Jira has been discussed in the Apache  
>>>>> Symposium
>>>>> (according to David's notes).
>>>>>
>>>>> I think that setting a server up and running is something HWM  
>>>>> will do
>>>>> something about.
>>>>> On my end I will more than happy to help this happen and kept  
>>>>> running.
>>>>>
>>>>> -Bruno
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 2008/11/13 Enrique Ruibal <[hidden email]>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello Bruno,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What do you have in mind?, Is there something that can be  
>>>>>> started on your
>>>>>> end?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How Can I help with Testing / Documenting stuff?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Enrique R.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> View this message in context:
>>>>>> http://www.nabble.com/Idea%3A-OFBiz-self-hosting-tp19235405p20471724.html
>>>>>> Sent from the OFBiz - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>
>

[Tim Ruppert]

Not contradictory at all, I'm just ignorant to this fact, since I  
hadn't seen it broadcast and I've been the one handling it for the  
community.

Let's start moving it right away then if they've got the bandwidth to  
do this.  I've had numerous meetings with the infrastructure group and  
would be more than happy to dive into this role - just didn't know  
they were offering!  Aaron Farr, Noel Bergmann and the infrastructure  
guys and I had many meetings and discussions about doing this - but  
they didn't seem like, "Please move all of your stuff over here." -  
they seemed more like, "Let's start discussing this and we'll figure  
out when it's time to do this."

In fact, I was in the process of getting another server dedicated to  
this effort on our infrastructure, but if the ASF can handle all of  
this, then let's try our hand at doing it this way:

1. Move the demo servers immediately
2. Move the nightly builds and that process immediately
3. Decide what we want to do longer term (Confluence vs. WebSlinger)  
and move that
-- This will take some more thought - we could obviously do #4 first
-- I just didn't want them to have to manage that.
4. Move document repository

Anyways, if we're ready to go, I'll put the halt on the new server and  
the new services we were planning.  Add me to whatever list i need to  
in order to get in touch and I'll drive the process with  
infrastructure to get it all going.  I doubt it's as easy to drop in  
as you were alluding to, but I'm happy to push that along as much as  
possible.

I'm also going to send another email to this list about what the ASF  
did ask for while we were there in hopes that we can all be a part of  
a more directed, coordinated effort to build something on top of OFBiz  
directly to meet the ASF needs.

Cheers,
Tim
--
Tim Ruppert
HotWax Media
http://www.hotwaxmedia.com

o:801.649.6594
f:801.649.6595

On Nov 16, 2008, at 7:07 AM, David E Jones wrote:

>
> I'm sorry to be contradictory, but I don't think this statement is  
> true: "the ASF is not ready to host all of these things - nightly  
> builds, demo sites, documentation management, etc"
>
> The ASF infra certainly IS ready for these things, and nearly all  
> other projects DO those things on ASF infra. In fact, it has been  
> brought up as a concern by a few other people in the foundation that  
> OFBiz is not doing these exact things on ASF infra, and we really  
> need to address that concern. There are legal and public relations,  
> as well as maintenance/etc, concerns. At this point it's enough of  
> an issue that I've been asked to include a report on this in the  
> next board report, and keep updating status on it in board reports  
> until it is complete. The PMC has been discussing this a bit, and  
> Jacques has started working on some things for his external servers.
>
> It may be easier to use infra that we're familiar with already, but  
> we need to start working with the infra people at the ASF and  
> solving some of these problems in more collaboration with them.
>
> Actually, it's a great opportunity to do so now because they may  
> have great feedback on things we should do in the apps and/or other  
> things we can improve in OFBiz. It was great to meet a lot of the  
> infra people at ApacheCon, and even to work side-by-side with a few  
> of them digging postholes and pounding nails into a fence. It's  
> definitely volunteer driven, but there are good people there to work  
> with. And, if anyone gets impatient with what is going on over  
> there... then volunteering to work on infra is the appropriate way  
> to resolve that! ;)
>
> -David
>
>
> On Nov 16, 2008, at 8:54 AM, Tim Ruppert wrote:
>
>> Whenever the community is ready, we can host an instance for these  
>> purposes (at least until the ASF is ready to do this).  This is not  
>> an issue right now since the ASF is not ready to host all of these  
>> things - nightly builds, demo sites, documentation management, etc  
>> - but I agree at some point it would be nice if this was all under  
>> the ASF umbrella.  Whenever they're ready, we'll be more than happy  
>> to move all of that stuff to the ASF - but for now, if we need  
>> additional infrastructure, we have a place where it can be hosted,  
>> at no charge to anyone else, that will meet everyone's needs.
>>
>> Personally, I think that this all kinda depends when we have  
>> WebSlinger integrated and into OFBiz officially, as it's the only  
>> interface I've seen on top of OFBiz that would be possible to  
>> replace something like Confluence.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Tim
>> --
>> Tim Ruppert
>> HotWax Media
>> http://www.hotwaxmedia.com
>>
>> o:801.649.6594
>> f:801.649.6595
>>
>> On Nov 16, 2008, at 6:45 AM, David E Jones wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> 1. create list of activities we want to be able to do with OFBiz  
>>> (in the OFBREQDES space on docs.ofbiz.org)
>>> 2. design screens, etc needed for enabling (and dare I say...  
>>> automating) these activities
>>> 3. develop and contribute functionality, perhaps in a new  
>>> component in specialpurpose that is just for enabling  
>>> collaboration on open source projects (project mgmt, content mgmt,  
>>> etc for open source projects)
>>> 4. a number of people try to use it locally and send feedback and  
>>> ideas to this mailing list, and refine #1 and repeat
>>> 5. get a test server up somewhere for people to try it out in a  
>>> group setting on a small set of content, tasks, etc (possibly  
>>> optional if #4 is good enough)
>>> 6. deploy to a production server and really start using for OFBiz
>>>
>>> If I understand what you are saying, it is like #5. Before trying  
>>> to do that I'd like to at least do #4, and preferably #1-3 before  
>>> that.
>>>
>>> -David
>>>
>>> On Nov 16, 2008, at 2:01 AM, Bruno Busco wrote:
>>>
>>>> That's great,
>>>> but in order to get OFBiz ready, I think we should have it  
>>>> working as a CMS
>>>> in a live site where we all have access and with contents that  
>>>> will then be
>>>> moved into the Apache server.
>>>> Is this possible?
>>>>
>>>> -Bruno
>>>>
>>>> 2008/11/13 David E Jones <[hidden email]>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Actually as we get OFBiz ready to run for OFBiz we'll have it  
>>>>> hosted on ASF
>>>>> infra. The OFBiz resources that are not hosted on ASF infra are  
>>>>> actually an
>>>>> issue right now that needs to be resolved at some point (ie  
>>>>> confluence,
>>>>> nightly builds, demo site, etc).
>>>>>
>>>>> -David
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Nov 13, 2008, at 12:13 AM, Bruno Busco wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Enrique,
>>>>>> I just bumped this thread up because using OFBiz itself in  
>>>>>> place of
>>>>>> Confluence and even Jira has been discussed in the Apache  
>>>>>> Symposium
>>>>>> (according to David's notes).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think that setting a server up and running is something HWM  
>>>>>> will do
>>>>>> something about.
>>>>>> On my end I will more than happy to help this happen and kept  
>>>>>> running.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Bruno
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2008/11/13 Enrique Ruibal <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hello Bruno,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What do you have in mind?, Is there something that can be  
>>>>>>> started on your
>>>>>>> end?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> How Can I help with Testing / Documenting stuff?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Enrique R.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> View this message in context:
>>>>>>> http://www.nabble.com/Idea%3A-OFBiz-self-hosting-tp19235405p20471724.html
>>>>>>> Sent from the OFBiz - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>
>

[David E Jones-3]

What I have so far is in the board report draft (based on the email  
report I sent to the PMC a few weeks ago):

http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBADMIN/ASF+Board+Report+2008-12+DRAFT

As mentioned in there none of these have been a high priority, but it  
is an outstanding issue that board members, and more recently and  
vocally PRC members, have brought up. I'm not sure if the  
infrastructure guys really care where OFBiz resources are hosted... my  
experience is consistent with yours Tim that they don't seem to  
worried about it.

Right now I consider this a lower priority item and there doesn't seem  
to be huge urgency on it, but it does need to be done sooner or later,  
and help on it would be very appreciated!

Most discussions happen on the "[hidden email]" mailing  
list and anyone can subscribe to that. Lots of things happen based on  
discussions there, and then issues in the infra Jira project. They  
also have an IRC room that some hang out it, and that they use when  
more coordination is needed for certain changes.

-David


On Nov 16, 2008, at 9:20 AM, Tim Ruppert wrote:

> Not contradictory at all, I'm just ignorant to this fact, since I  
> hadn't seen it broadcast and I've been the one handling it for the  
> community.
>
> Let's start moving it right away then if they've got the bandwidth  
> to do this.  I've had numerous meetings with the infrastructure  
> group and would be more than happy to dive into this role - just  
> didn't know they were offering!  Aaron Farr, Noel Bergmann and the  
> infrastructure guys and I had many meetings and discussions about  
> doing this - but they didn't seem like, "Please move all of your  
> stuff over here." - they seemed more like, "Let's start discussing  
> this and we'll figure out when it's time to do this."
>
> In fact, I was in the process of getting another server dedicated to  
> this effort on our infrastructure, but if the ASF can handle all of  
> this, then let's try our hand at doing it this way:
>
> 1. Move the demo servers immediately
> 2. Move the nightly builds and that process immediately
> 3. Decide what we want to do longer term (Confluence vs. WebSlinger)  
> and move that
> -- This will take some more thought - we could obviously do #4 first
> -- I just didn't want them to have to manage that.
> 4. Move document repository
>
> Anyways, if we're ready to go, I'll put the halt on the new server  
> and the new services we were planning.  Add me to whatever list i  
> need to in order to get in touch and I'll drive the process with  
> infrastructure to get it all going.  I doubt it's as easy to drop in  
> as you were alluding to, but I'm happy to push that along as much as  
> possible.
>
> I'm also going to send another email to this list about what the ASF  
> did ask for while we were there in hopes that we can all be a part  
> of a more directed, coordinated effort to build something on top of  
> OFBiz directly to meet the ASF needs.
>
> Cheers,
> Tim
> --
> Tim Ruppert
> HotWax Media
> http://www.hotwaxmedia.com
>
> o:801.649.6594
> f:801.649.6595
>
> On Nov 16, 2008, at 7:07 AM, David E Jones wrote:
>
>>
>> I'm sorry to be contradictory, but I don't think this statement is  
>> true: "the ASF is not ready to host all of these things - nightly  
>> builds, demo sites, documentation management, etc"
>>
>> The ASF infra certainly IS ready for these things, and nearly all  
>> other projects DO those things on ASF infra. In fact, it has been  
>> brought up as a concern by a few other people in the foundation  
>> that OFBiz is not doing these exact things on ASF infra, and we  
>> really need to address that concern. There are legal and public  
>> relations, as well as maintenance/etc, concerns. At this point it's  
>> enough of an issue that I've been asked to include a report on this  
>> in the next board report, and keep updating status on it in board  
>> reports until it is complete. The PMC has been discussing this a  
>> bit, and Jacques has started working on some things for his  
>> external servers.
>>
>> It may be easier to use infra that we're familiar with already, but  
>> we need to start working with the infra people at the ASF and  
>> solving some of these problems in more collaboration with them.
>>
>> Actually, it's a great opportunity to do so now because they may  
>> have great feedback on things we should do in the apps and/or other  
>> things we can improve in OFBiz. It was great to meet a lot of the  
>> infra people at ApacheCon, and even to work side-by-side with a few  
>> of them digging postholes and pounding nails into a fence. It's  
>> definitely volunteer driven, but there are good people there to  
>> work with. And, if anyone gets impatient with what is going on over  
>> there... then volunteering to work on infra is the appropriate way  
>> to resolve that! ;)
>>
>> -David
>>
>>
>> On Nov 16, 2008, at 8:54 AM, Tim Ruppert wrote:
>>
>>> Whenever the community is ready, we can host an instance for these  
>>> purposes (at least until the ASF is ready to do this).  This is  
>>> not an issue right now since the ASF is not ready to host all of  
>>> these things - nightly builds, demo sites, documentation  
>>> management, etc - but I agree at some point it would be nice if  
>>> this was all under the ASF umbrella.  Whenever they're ready,  
>>> we'll be more than happy to move all of that stuff to the ASF -  
>>> but for now, if we need additional infrastructure, we have a place  
>>> where it can be hosted, at no charge to anyone else, that will  
>>> meet everyone's needs.
>>>
>>> Personally, I think that this all kinda depends when we have  
>>> WebSlinger integrated and into OFBiz officially, as it's the only  
>>> interface I've seen on top of OFBiz that would be possible to  
>>> replace something like Confluence.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Tim
>>> --
>>> Tim Ruppert
>>> HotWax Media
>>> http://www.hotwaxmedia.com
>>>
>>> o:801.649.6594
>>> f:801.649.6595
>>>
>>> On Nov 16, 2008, at 6:45 AM, David E Jones wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> 1. create list of activities we want to be able to do with OFBiz  
>>>> (in the OFBREQDES space on docs.ofbiz.org)
>>>> 2. design screens, etc needed for enabling (and dare I say...  
>>>> automating) these activities
>>>> 3. develop and contribute functionality, perhaps in a new  
>>>> component in specialpurpose that is just for enabling  
>>>> collaboration on open source projects (project mgmt, content  
>>>> mgmt, etc for open source projects)
>>>> 4. a number of people try to use it locally and send feedback and  
>>>> ideas to this mailing list, and refine #1 and repeat
>>>> 5. get a test server up somewhere for people to try it out in a  
>>>> group setting on a small set of content, tasks, etc (possibly  
>>>> optional if #4 is good enough)
>>>> 6. deploy to a production server and really start using for OFBiz
>>>>
>>>> If I understand what you are saying, it is like #5. Before trying  
>>>> to do that I'd like to at least do #4, and preferably #1-3 before  
>>>> that.
>>>>
>>>> -David
>>>>
>>>> On Nov 16, 2008, at 2:01 AM, Bruno Busco wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> That's great,
>>>>> but in order to get OFBiz ready, I think we should have it  
>>>>> working as a CMS
>>>>> in a live site where we all have access and with contents that  
>>>>> will then be
>>>>> moved into the Apache server.
>>>>> Is this possible?
>>>>>
>>>>> -Bruno
>>>>>
>>>>> 2008/11/13 David E Jones <[hidden email]>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Actually as we get OFBiz ready to run for OFBiz we'll have it  
>>>>>> hosted on ASF
>>>>>> infra. The OFBiz resources that are not hosted on ASF infra are  
>>>>>> actually an
>>>>>> issue right now that needs to be resolved at some point (ie  
>>>>>> confluence,
>>>>>> nightly builds, demo site, etc).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -David
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Nov 13, 2008, at 12:13 AM, Bruno Busco wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Enrique,
>>>>>>> I just bumped this thread up because using OFBiz itself in  
>>>>>>> place of
>>>>>>> Confluence and even Jira has been discussed in the Apache  
>>>>>>> Symposium
>>>>>>> (according to David's notes).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think that setting a server up and running is something HWM  
>>>>>>> will do
>>>>>>> something about.
>>>>>>> On my end I will more than happy to help this happen and kept  
>>>>>>> running.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Bruno
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2008/11/13 Enrique Ruibal <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hello Bruno,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What do you have in mind?, Is there something that can be  
>>>>>>>> started on your
>>>>>>>> end?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> How Can I help with Testing / Documenting stuff?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Enrique R.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> View this message in context:
>>>>>>>> http://www.nabble.com/Idea%3A-OFBiz-self-hosting-tp19235405p20471724.html
>>>>>>>> Sent from the OFBiz - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>

[Tim Ruppert]

Cool - I'll subscribe to this and start the process.  It sounds like I  
should set up the stuff on our servers for now, but see how they want  
to proceed.  Thanks for the info David.

Cheers,
Tim
--
Tim Ruppert
HotWax Media
http://www.hotwaxmedia.com

o:801.649.6594
f:801.649.6595

On Nov 16, 2008, at 7:37 AM, David E Jones wrote:

>
> What I have so far is in the board report draft (based on the email  
> report I sent to the PMC a few weeks ago):
>
> http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBADMIN/ASF+Board+Report+2008-12+DRAFT
>
> As mentioned in there none of these have been a high priority, but  
> it is an outstanding issue that board members, and more recently and  
> vocally PRC members, have brought up. I'm not sure if the  
> infrastructure guys really care where OFBiz resources are hosted...  
> my experience is consistent with yours Tim that they don't seem to  
> worried about it.
>
> Right now I consider this a lower priority item and there doesn't  
> seem to be huge urgency on it, but it does need to be done sooner or  
> later, and help on it would be very appreciated!
>
> Most discussions happen on the "[hidden email]" mailing  
> list and anyone can subscribe to that. Lots of things happen based  
> on discussions there, and then issues in the infra Jira project.  
> They also have an IRC room that some hang out it, and that they use  
> when more coordination is needed for certain changes.
>
> -David
>
>
> On Nov 16, 2008, at 9:20 AM, Tim Ruppert wrote:
>
>> Not contradictory at all, I'm just ignorant to this fact, since I  
>> hadn't seen it broadcast and I've been the one handling it for the  
>> community.
>>
>> Let's start moving it right away then if they've got the bandwidth  
>> to do this.  I've had numerous meetings with the infrastructure  
>> group and would be more than happy to dive into this role - just  
>> didn't know they were offering!  Aaron Farr, Noel Bergmann and the  
>> infrastructure guys and I had many meetings and discussions about  
>> doing this - but they didn't seem like, "Please move all of your  
>> stuff over here." - they seemed more like, "Let's start discussing  
>> this and we'll figure out when it's time to do this."
>>
>> In fact, I was in the process of getting another server dedicated  
>> to this effort on our infrastructure, but if the ASF can handle all  
>> of this, then let's try our hand at doing it this way:
>>
>> 1. Move the demo servers immediately
>> 2. Move the nightly builds and that process immediately
>> 3. Decide what we want to do longer term (Confluence vs.  
>> WebSlinger) and move that
>> -- This will take some more thought - we could obviously do #4 first
>> -- I just didn't want them to have to manage that.
>> 4. Move document repository
>>
>> Anyways, if we're ready to go, I'll put the halt on the new server  
>> and the new services we were planning.  Add me to whatever list i  
>> need to in order to get in touch and I'll drive the process with  
>> infrastructure to get it all going.  I doubt it's as easy to drop  
>> in as you were alluding to, but I'm happy to push that along as  
>> much as possible.
>>
>> I'm also going to send another email to this list about what the  
>> ASF did ask for while we were there in hopes that we can all be a  
>> part of a more directed, coordinated effort to build something on  
>> top of OFBiz directly to meet the ASF needs.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Tim
>> --
>> Tim Ruppert
>> HotWax Media
>> http://www.hotwaxmedia.com
>>
>> o:801.649.6594
>> f:801.649.6595
>>
>> On Nov 16, 2008, at 7:07 AM, David E Jones wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I'm sorry to be contradictory, but I don't think this statement is  
>>> true: "the ASF is not ready to host all of these things - nightly  
>>> builds, demo sites, documentation management, etc"
>>>
>>> The ASF infra certainly IS ready for these things, and nearly all  
>>> other projects DO those things on ASF infra. In fact, it has been  
>>> brought up as a concern by a few other people in the foundation  
>>> that OFBiz is not doing these exact things on ASF infra, and we  
>>> really need to address that concern. There are legal and public  
>>> relations, as well as maintenance/etc, concerns. At this point  
>>> it's enough of an issue that I've been asked to include a report  
>>> on this in the next board report, and keep updating status on it  
>>> in board reports until it is complete. The PMC has been discussing  
>>> this a bit, and Jacques has started working on some things for his  
>>> external servers.
>>>
>>> It may be easier to use infra that we're familiar with already,  
>>> but we need to start working with the infra people at the ASF and  
>>> solving some of these problems in more collaboration with them.
>>>
>>> Actually, it's a great opportunity to do so now because they may  
>>> have great feedback on things we should do in the apps and/or  
>>> other things we can improve in OFBiz. It was great to meet a lot  
>>> of the infra people at ApacheCon, and even to work side-by-side  
>>> with a few of them digging postholes and pounding nails into a  
>>> fence. It's definitely volunteer driven, but there are good people  
>>> there to work with. And, if anyone gets impatient with what is  
>>> going on over there... then volunteering to work on infra is the  
>>> appropriate way to resolve that! ;)
>>>
>>> -David
>>>
>>>
>>> On Nov 16, 2008, at 8:54 AM, Tim Ruppert wrote:
>>>
>>>> Whenever the community is ready, we can host an instance for  
>>>> these purposes (at least until the ASF is ready to do this).  
>>>> This is not an issue right now since the ASF is not ready to host  
>>>> all of these things - nightly builds, demo sites, documentation  
>>>> management, etc - but I agree at some point it would be nice if  
>>>> this was all under the ASF umbrella.  Whenever they're ready,  
>>>> we'll be more than happy to move all of that stuff to the ASF -  
>>>> but for now, if we need additional infrastructure, we have a  
>>>> place where it can be hosted, at no charge to anyone else, that  
>>>> will meet everyone's needs.
>>>>
>>>> Personally, I think that this all kinda depends when we have  
>>>> WebSlinger integrated and into OFBiz officially, as it's the only  
>>>> interface I've seen on top of OFBiz that would be possible to  
>>>> replace something like Confluence.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Tim
>>>> --
>>>> Tim Ruppert
>>>> HotWax Media
>>>> http://www.hotwaxmedia.com
>>>>
>>>> o:801.649.6594
>>>> f:801.649.6595
>>>>
>>>> On Nov 16, 2008, at 6:45 AM, David E Jones wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. create list of activities we want to be able to do with OFBiz  
>>>>> (in the OFBREQDES space on docs.ofbiz.org)
>>>>> 2. design screens, etc needed for enabling (and dare I say...  
>>>>> automating) these activities
>>>>> 3. develop and contribute functionality, perhaps in a new  
>>>>> component in specialpurpose that is just for enabling  
>>>>> collaboration on open source projects (project mgmt, content  
>>>>> mgmt, etc for open source projects)
>>>>> 4. a number of people try to use it locally and send feedback  
>>>>> and ideas to this mailing list, and refine #1 and repeat
>>>>> 5. get a test server up somewhere for people to try it out in a  
>>>>> group setting on a small set of content, tasks, etc (possibly  
>>>>> optional if #4 is good enough)
>>>>> 6. deploy to a production server and really start using for OFBiz
>>>>>
>>>>> If I understand what you are saying, it is like #5. Before  
>>>>> trying to do that I'd like to at least do #4, and preferably  
>>>>> #1-3 before that.
>>>>>
>>>>> -David
>>>>>
>>>>> On Nov 16, 2008, at 2:01 AM, Bruno Busco wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> That's great,
>>>>>> but in order to get OFBiz ready, I think we should have it  
>>>>>> working as a CMS
>>>>>> in a live site where we all have access and with contents that  
>>>>>> will then be
>>>>>> moved into the Apache server.
>>>>>> Is this possible?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Bruno
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2008/11/13 David E Jones <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Actually as we get OFBiz ready to run for OFBiz we'll have it  
>>>>>>> hosted on ASF
>>>>>>> infra. The OFBiz resources that are not hosted on ASF infra  
>>>>>>> are actually an
>>>>>>> issue right now that needs to be resolved at some point (ie  
>>>>>>> confluence,
>>>>>>> nightly builds, demo site, etc).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -David
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Nov 13, 2008, at 12:13 AM, Bruno Busco wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Enrique,
>>>>>>>> I just bumped this thread up because using OFBiz itself in  
>>>>>>>> place of
>>>>>>>> Confluence and even Jira has been discussed in the Apache  
>>>>>>>> Symposium
>>>>>>>> (according to David's notes).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I think that setting a server up and running is something HWM  
>>>>>>>> will do
>>>>>>>> something about.
>>>>>>>> On my end I will more than happy to help this happen and kept  
>>>>>>>> running.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -Bruno
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2008/11/13 Enrique Ruibal <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hello Bruno,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What do you have in mind?, Is there something that can be  
>>>>>>>>> started on your
>>>>>>>>> end?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> How Can I help with Testing / Documenting stuff?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Enrique R.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> View this message in context:
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nabble.com/Idea%3A-OFBiz-self-hosting-tp19235405p20471724.html
>>>>>>>>> Sent from the OFBiz - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>

[Jacques Le Roux]

From: "David E Jones" <[hidden email]>
>
> What I have so far is in the board report draft (based on the email  
> report I sent to the PMC a few weeks ago):
>
> http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBADMIN/ASF+Board+Report+2008-12+DRAFT

I see that some stats would be appreciated on the Board Report. I remember Jacopo doing such stats some time ago.
Jacopo, how did you do this stats, have you something ready we could use ?

Thanks

Jacques

[Jacques Le Roux]

Actually I like Confluence (and Jira). But as momentum is to use our own tools, I was thinking about a way to easily share our work
on documentation, as we do on code.

But there is obviously a downside : it would need more work to incorporate no commiter work. So a tool like Confluence is still the
best. Hopefully the portlets will leverage the CRM and we will be able to provide a such tool for ourself and ASF. I must say that I
have not much time to think about it for the moment.

Jacques

From: "David E Jones" <[hidden email]>

>
> As we're discussing how we want content management to work...
>
> What about SubVersion is it that you think would be helpful for  managing documentation in OFBiz?
>
> -David
>
> P.S. On a note of history: using the source repo for docs has been  discussed before, and in fact used to be how we did it in
> OFBiz.
>
>
> On Nov 16, 2008, at 8:36 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>
>> We should also thing about how to organize the content and how to  coordinate our efforts. Subversion allow us to this deal with
>> most  other things (code actually). Why not trying to use it also to  maintain our documentation ?
>> Also should we not clearly separate documentations by goals we  intend to reach. This is what is already done with Confluence
>> workspaces, but maybe we should make this even more clear.
>>
>> My 2 cts
>>
>> Jacques
>>
>> From: "Bruno Busco" <[hidden email]>
>>> That's great,
>>> but in order to get OFBiz ready, I think we should have it working  as a CMS
>>> in a live site where we all have access and with contents that will  then be
>>> moved into the Apache server.
>>> Is this possible?
>>>
>>> -Bruno
>>>
>>> 2008/11/13 David E Jones <[hidden email]>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Actually as we get OFBiz ready to run for OFBiz we'll have it  hosted on ASF
>>>> infra. The OFBiz resources that are not hosted on ASF infra are  actually an
>>>> issue right now that needs to be resolved at some point (ie  confluence,
>>>> nightly builds, demo site, etc).
>>>>
>>>> -David
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Nov 13, 2008, at 12:13 AM, Bruno Busco wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Enrique,
>>>>> I just bumped this thread up because using OFBiz itself in place of
>>>>> Confluence and even Jira has been discussed in the Apache Symposium
>>>>> (according to David's notes).
>>>>>
>>>>> I think that setting a server up and running is something HWM  will do
>>>>> something about.
>>>>> On my end I will more than happy to help this happen and kept  running.
>>>>>
>>>>> -Bruno
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 2008/11/13 Enrique Ruibal <[hidden email]>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello Bruno,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What do you have in mind?, Is there something that can be  started on your
>>>>>> end?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How Can I help with Testing / Documenting stuff?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Enrique R.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> View this message in context:
>>>>>> http://www.nabble.com/Idea%3A-OFBiz-self-hosting-tp19235405p20471724.html
>>>>>> Sent from the OFBiz - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>
>