OFBiz: The road ahead RE the framework

[Pierre Smits]

Hi All,

This thread is about where you want the community to go with the underlying
core components of OFBiz (aka the Framework).

The framework is the enables of all applications and business processes and
users of the product. It is about security, and about a future proof and
reliable platform for developing applications on.

What do feel is important? What should be removed from the framework. what
should be included? What can be enhanced? And what not?

Please let all of us know what you think is important regarding the
framework so that we (the community) can take stock and draw up a plan for
comming releases.

Regards,

Pierre

[Brian Topping]

Sorry, I didn't see this thread when I wrote my previous email.  If it should be resent to this thread, please let me know.

Cheers, Brian

On Jan 27, 2011, at 4:31 AM, Pierre Smits wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> This thread is about where you want the community to go with the underlying
> core components of OFBiz (aka the Framework).
>
> The framework is the enables of all applications and business processes and
> users of the product. It is about security, and about a future proof and
> reliable platform for developing applications on.
>
> What do feel is important? What should be removed from the framework. what
> should be included? What can be enhanced? And what not?
>
> Please let all of us know what you think is important regarding the
> framework so that we (the community) can take stock and draw up a plan for
> comming releases.
>
> Regards,
>
> Pierre

[rajsaini]

One thing I would like to see is to use the OSGi runtime for framework.
This will help modularising efforts. For example entity engine, service
engine, security etc. will be OSGi bundles running on top of OSGi
framework such Apache Karaf. Apache ServiceMix is already using Karaf
(http://karaf.apache.org). I did a prototype and embedded the OFBiz in
OSGi runtime (http://sourceforge.net/projects/ofbiz-osgi/) and it worked
well.

Thanks,

Raj

On Thursday 27 January 2011 03:01 PM, Pierre Smits wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> This thread is about where you want the community to go with the underlying
> core components of OFBiz (aka the Framework).
>
> The framework is the enables of all applications and business processes and
> users of the product. It is about security, and about a future proof and
> reliable platform for developing applications on.
>
> What do feel is important? What should be removed from the framework. what
> should be included? What can be enhanced? And what not?
>
> Please let all of us know what you think is important regarding the
> framework so that we (the community) can take stock and draw up a plan for
> comming releases.
>
> Regards,
>
> Pierre
>

[Adrian Crum-3]

I have suggested that in the past. OFBiz has spawned some great
technology that, if modified to be stand-alone subsystems, could be
their own projects.

-Adrian

On 1/27/2011 8:52 PM, Raj Saini wrote:

> One thing I would like to see is to use the OSGi runtime for
> framework. This will help modularising efforts. For example entity
> engine, service engine, security etc. will be OSGi bundles running on
> top of OSGi framework such Apache Karaf. Apache ServiceMix is already
> using Karaf (http://karaf.apache.org). I did a prototype and embedded
> the OFBiz in OSGi runtime
> (http://sourceforge.net/projects/ofbiz-osgi/) and it worked well.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Raj
>
> On Thursday 27 January 2011 03:01 PM, Pierre Smits wrote:
>> Hi All,
>>
>> This thread is about where you want the community to go with the
>> underlying
>> core components of OFBiz (aka the Framework).
>>
>> The framework is the enables of all applications and business
>> processes and
>> users of the product. It is about security, and about a future proof and
>> reliable platform for developing applications on.
>>
>> What do feel is important? What should be removed from the framework.
>> what
>> should be included? What can be enhanced? And what not?
>>
>> Please let all of us know what you think is important regarding the
>> framework so that we (the community) can take stock and draw up a
>> plan for
>> comming releases.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Pierre
>>
>

[rajsaini]

Yes, I agree. Entity Engine and Service Engine are two such marvellous
pieces of technologies. Entity engine can very well compete with Java
Persistence API (JPA) if it is separated from the OFBiz runtime.

Raj

On Friday 28 January 2011 10:26 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:

> I have suggested that in the past. OFBiz has spawned some great
> technology that, if modified to be stand-alone subsystems, could be
> their own projects.
>
> -Adrian
>
> On 1/27/2011 8:52 PM, Raj Saini wrote:
>> One thing I would like to see is to use the OSGi runtime for
>> framework. This will help modularising efforts. For example entity
>> engine, service engine, security etc. will be OSGi bundles running on
>> top of OSGi framework such Apache Karaf. Apache ServiceMix is already
>> using Karaf (http://karaf.apache.org). I did a prototype and embedded
>> the OFBiz in OSGi runtime
>> (http://sourceforge.net/projects/ofbiz-osgi/) and it worked well.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Raj
>>
>> On Thursday 27 January 2011 03:01 PM, Pierre Smits wrote:
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> This thread is about where you want the community to go with the
>>> underlying
>>> core components of OFBiz (aka the Framework).
>>>
>>> The framework is the enables of all applications and business
>>> processes and
>>> users of the product. It is about security, and about a future proof
>>> and
>>> reliable platform for developing applications on.
>>>
>>> What do feel is important? What should be removed from the
>>> framework. what
>>> should be included? What can be enhanced? And what not?
>>>
>>> Please let all of us know what you think is important regarding the
>>> framework so that we (the community) can take stock and draw up a
>>> plan for
>>> comming releases.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Pierre
>>>
>>
>

[rajsaini]

I will certainly be glad to help in this. I had re-packaged the entity
engine as and OSGi bundle and exposed the delegator as osgi service. I
found minor issues like loading of entityengine.xml from classpath and
this did not go well with the OSGi. Let us wait for the the
restructuring of the OFBiz project.

Thanks,

Raj

On Friday 28 January 2011 10:58 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:

> Cool. If anyone is interested in working on that, I am available to help.
>
> -Adrian
>
> On 1/27/2011 9:23 PM, Raj Saini wrote:
>> Yes, I agree. Entity Engine and Service Engine are two such
>> marvellous pieces of technologies. Entity engine can very well
>> compete with Java Persistence API (JPA) if it is separated from the
>> OFBiz runtime.
>>
>> Raj
>>
>> On Friday 28 January 2011 10:26 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>> I have suggested that in the past. OFBiz has spawned some great
>>> technology that, if modified to be stand-alone subsystems, could be
>>> their own projects.
>>>
>>> -Adrian
>>>
>>> On 1/27/2011 8:52 PM, Raj Saini wrote:
>>>> One thing I would like to see is to use the OSGi runtime for
>>>> framework. This will help modularising efforts. For example entity
>>>> engine, service engine, security etc. will be OSGi bundles running
>>>> on top of OSGi framework such Apache Karaf. Apache ServiceMix is
>>>> already using Karaf (http://karaf.apache.org). I did a prototype
>>>> and embedded the OFBiz in OSGi runtime
>>>> (http://sourceforge.net/projects/ofbiz-osgi/) and it worked well.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Raj
>>>>
>>>> On Thursday 27 January 2011 03:01 PM, Pierre Smits wrote:
>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>
>>>>> This thread is about where you want the community to go with the
>>>>> underlying
>>>>> core components of OFBiz (aka the Framework).
>>>>>
>>>>> The framework is the enables of all applications and business
>>>>> processes and
>>>>> users of the product. It is about security, and about a future
>>>>> proof and
>>>>> reliable platform for developing applications on.
>>>>>
>>>>> What do feel is important? What should be removed from the
>>>>> framework. what
>>>>> should be included? What can be enhanced? And what not?
>>>>>
>>>>> Please let all of us know what you think is important regarding the
>>>>> framework so that we (the community) can take stock and draw up a
>>>>> plan for
>>>>> comming releases.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Pierre
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>

[Adrian Crum-3]

I was picturing the entity engine as a lower level artifact - like a jar
file. I don't have all of the details worked out yet, but what I picture
is this:

1. An application needs a database-agnostic data store.
2. The application accesses the data store though the entity engine API/
jar library.

Ofbiz has a very convenient way of defining databases, tables, and views
as XML files. Plus, it has the ability to create/modify table/index
structures during start-up. I believe that would be a very handy tool
for anyone wanting to create any application that requires data storage.

Wrapping the entity engine jar file in an OSGI bundle would be trivial.

If anyone is interested in exploring this further, then they should
create a Jira issue and we can take it from there.

-Adrian

On 1/27/2011 10:21 PM, Raj Saini wrote:

> I will certainly be glad to help in this. I had re-packaged the entity
> engine as and OSGi bundle and exposed the delegator as osgi service. I
> found minor issues like loading of entityengine.xml from classpath and
> this did not go well with the OSGi. Let us wait for the the
> restructuring of the OFBiz project.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Raj
>
> On Friday 28 January 2011 10:58 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>> Cool. If anyone is interested in working on that, I am available to
>> help.
>>
>> -Adrian
>>
>> On 1/27/2011 9:23 PM, Raj Saini wrote:
>>> Yes, I agree. Entity Engine and Service Engine are two such
>>> marvellous pieces of technologies. Entity engine can very well
>>> compete with Java Persistence API (JPA) if it is separated from the
>>> OFBiz runtime.
>>>
>>> Raj
>>>
>>> On Friday 28 January 2011 10:26 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>> I have suggested that in the past. OFBiz has spawned some great
>>>> technology that, if modified to be stand-alone subsystems, could be
>>>> their own projects.
>>>>
>>>> -Adrian
>>>>
>>>> On 1/27/2011 8:52 PM, Raj Saini wrote:
>>>>> One thing I would like to see is to use the OSGi runtime for
>>>>> framework. This will help modularising efforts. For example entity
>>>>> engine, service engine, security etc. will be OSGi bundles running
>>>>> on top of OSGi framework such Apache Karaf. Apache ServiceMix is
>>>>> already using Karaf (http://karaf.apache.org). I did a prototype
>>>>> and embedded the OFBiz in OSGi runtime
>>>>> (http://sourceforge.net/projects/ofbiz-osgi/) and it worked well.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> Raj
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thursday 27 January 2011 03:01 PM, Pierre Smits wrote:
>>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This thread is about where you want the community to go with the
>>>>>> underlying
>>>>>> core components of OFBiz (aka the Framework).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The framework is the enables of all applications and business
>>>>>> processes and
>>>>>> users of the product. It is about security, and about a future
>>>>>> proof and
>>>>>> reliable platform for developing applications on.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What do feel is important? What should be removed from the
>>>>>> framework. what
>>>>>> should be included? What can be enhanced? And what not?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please let all of us know what you think is important regarding the
>>>>>> framework so that we (the community) can take stock and draw up a
>>>>>> plan for
>>>>>> comming releases.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Pierre
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>

[rajsaini]

I tried to use the entity engine exactly the way you have described. I
faced the problems as entity engine depends entity-ext (for some cache
management) and entity-ext depends on service engine. If we resolve this
dependency, entity engine can certainly be a standalone jar and as you
said it can be packaged as OSGi bundle. We will also need to take care
of entityengine.xml configuration so that it can be loaded from a
pre-defined location instead of a classpath.

Raj

On Friday 28 January 2011 12:28 PM, Adrian Crum wrote:

> I was picturing the entity engine as a lower level artifact - like a
> jar file. I don't have all of the details worked out yet, but what I
> picture is this:
>
> 1. An application needs a database-agnostic data store.
> 2. The application accesses the data store though the entity engine
> API/ jar library.
>
> Ofbiz has a very convenient way of defining databases, tables, and
> views as XML files. Plus, it has the ability to create/modify
> table/index structures during start-up. I believe that would be a very
> handy tool for anyone wanting to create any application that requires
> data storage.
>
> Wrapping the entity engine jar file in an OSGI bundle would be trivial.
>
> If anyone is interested in exploring this further, then they should
> create a Jira issue and we can take it from there.
>
> -Adrian
>
> On 1/27/2011 10:21 PM, Raj Saini wrote:
>> I will certainly be glad to help in this. I had re-packaged the
>> entity engine as and OSGi bundle and exposed the delegator as osgi
>> service. I found minor issues like loading of entityengine.xml from
>> classpath and this did not go well with the OSGi. Let us wait for the
>> the restructuring of the OFBiz project.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Raj
>>
>> On Friday 28 January 2011 10:58 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>> Cool. If anyone is interested in working on that, I am available to
>>> help.
>>>
>>> -Adrian
>>>
>>> On 1/27/2011 9:23 PM, Raj Saini wrote:
>>>> Yes, I agree. Entity Engine and Service Engine are two such
>>>> marvellous pieces of technologies. Entity engine can very well
>>>> compete with Java Persistence API (JPA) if it is separated from the
>>>> OFBiz runtime.
>>>>
>>>> Raj
>>>>
>>>> On Friday 28 January 2011 10:26 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>> I have suggested that in the past. OFBiz has spawned some great
>>>>> technology that, if modified to be stand-alone subsystems, could
>>>>> be their own projects.
>>>>>
>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>
>>>>> On 1/27/2011 8:52 PM, Raj Saini wrote:
>>>>>> One thing I would like to see is to use the OSGi runtime for
>>>>>> framework. This will help modularising efforts. For example
>>>>>> entity engine, service engine, security etc. will be OSGi bundles
>>>>>> running on top of OSGi framework such Apache Karaf. Apache
>>>>>> ServiceMix is already using Karaf (http://karaf.apache.org). I
>>>>>> did a prototype and embedded the OFBiz in OSGi runtime
>>>>>> (http://sourceforge.net/projects/ofbiz-osgi/) and it worked well.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Raj
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thursday 27 January 2011 03:01 PM, Pierre Smits wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This thread is about where you want the community to go with the
>>>>>>> underlying
>>>>>>> core components of OFBiz (aka the Framework).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The framework is the enables of all applications and business
>>>>>>> processes and
>>>>>>> users of the product. It is about security, and about a future
>>>>>>> proof and
>>>>>>> reliable platform for developing applications on.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What do feel is important? What should be removed from the
>>>>>>> framework. what
>>>>>>> should be included? What can be enhanced? And what not?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Please let all of us know what you think is important regarding the
>>>>>>> framework so that we (the community) can take stock and draw up
>>>>>>> a plan for
>>>>>>> comming releases.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Pierre
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>

[Adrian Crum-3]

There is no doubt there will be problems. We can tackle them one at a
time in a Jira issue.

I wasn't aware that entity-ext depends on the service engine. Maybe a
Jira sub-task could break that dependency.

I think the entityengine.xml file issue can be resolved through standard
Java resource loader methods. In other words, applications will name
their XML files according to a pre-defined format, and the entity-engine
jar file will find and load all matching XML files. Just think of them
as a resource file. Again - these details should be discussed further in
a Jira issue.

-Adrian


On 1/27/2011 11:23 PM, Raj Saini wrote:

> I tried to use the entity engine exactly the way you have described. I
> faced the problems as entity engine depends entity-ext (for some cache
> management) and entity-ext depends on service engine. If we resolve
> this dependency, entity engine can certainly be a standalone jar and
> as you said it can be packaged as OSGi bundle. We will also need to
> take care of entityengine.xml configuration so that it can be loaded
> from a pre-defined location instead of a classpath.
>
> Raj
>
> On Friday 28 January 2011 12:28 PM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>> I was picturing the entity engine as a lower level artifact - like a
>> jar file. I don't have all of the details worked out yet, but what I
>> picture is this:
>>
>> 1. An application needs a database-agnostic data store.
>> 2. The application accesses the data store though the entity engine
>> API/ jar library.
>>
>> Ofbiz has a very convenient way of defining databases, tables, and
>> views as XML files. Plus, it has the ability to create/modify
>> table/index structures during start-up. I believe that would be a
>> very handy tool for anyone wanting to create any application that
>> requires data storage.
>>
>> Wrapping the entity engine jar file in an OSGI bundle would be trivial.
>>
>> If anyone is interested in exploring this further, then they should
>> create a Jira issue and we can take it from there.
>>
>> -Adrian
>>
>> On 1/27/2011 10:21 PM, Raj Saini wrote:
>>> I will certainly be glad to help in this. I had re-packaged the
>>> entity engine as and OSGi bundle and exposed the delegator as osgi
>>> service. I found minor issues like loading of entityengine.xml from
>>> classpath and this did not go well with the OSGi. Let us wait for
>>> the the restructuring of the OFBiz project.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Raj
>>>
>>> On Friday 28 January 2011 10:58 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>> Cool. If anyone is interested in working on that, I am available to
>>>> help.
>>>>
>>>> -Adrian
>>>>
>>>> On 1/27/2011 9:23 PM, Raj Saini wrote:
>>>>> Yes, I agree. Entity Engine and Service Engine are two such
>>>>> marvellous pieces of technologies. Entity engine can very well
>>>>> compete with Java Persistence API (JPA) if it is separated from
>>>>> the OFBiz runtime.
>>>>>
>>>>> Raj
>>>>>
>>>>> On Friday 28 January 2011 10:26 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>> I have suggested that in the past. OFBiz has spawned some great
>>>>>> technology that, if modified to be stand-alone subsystems, could
>>>>>> be their own projects.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 1/27/2011 8:52 PM, Raj Saini wrote:
>>>>>>> One thing I would like to see is to use the OSGi runtime for
>>>>>>> framework. This will help modularising efforts. For example
>>>>>>> entity engine, service engine, security etc. will be OSGi
>>>>>>> bundles running on top of OSGi framework such Apache Karaf.
>>>>>>> Apache ServiceMix is already using Karaf
>>>>>>> (http://karaf.apache.org). I did a prototype and embedded the
>>>>>>> OFBiz in OSGi runtime
>>>>>>> (http://sourceforge.net/projects/ofbiz-osgi/) and it worked well.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Raj
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thursday 27 January 2011 03:01 PM, Pierre Smits wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This thread is about where you want the community to go with
>>>>>>>> the underlying
>>>>>>>> core components of OFBiz (aka the Framework).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The framework is the enables of all applications and business
>>>>>>>> processes and
>>>>>>>> users of the product. It is about security, and about a future
>>>>>>>> proof and
>>>>>>>> reliable platform for developing applications on.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What do feel is important? What should be removed from the
>>>>>>>> framework. what
>>>>>>>> should be included? What can be enhanced? And what not?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Please let all of us know what you think is important regarding
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> framework so that we (the community) can take stock and draw up
>>>>>>>> a plan for
>>>>>>>> comming releases.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Pierre
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>

[Scott Gray-2]

On 28/01/2011, at 8:37 PM, Adrian Crum wrote:

> There is no doubt there will be problems. We can tackle them one at a time in a Jira issue.
>
> I wasn't aware that entity-ext depends on the service engine. Maybe a Jira sub-task could break that dependency.

That's kind of the point of entity-ext, to supplement the entity engine with service engine capabilities.

>
> I think the entityengine.xml file issue can be resolved through standard Java resource loader methods. In other words, applications will name their XML files according to a pre-defined format, and the entity-engine jar file will find and load all matching XML files. Just think of them as a resource file. Again - these details should be discussed further in a Jira issue.
>
> -Adrian
>
>
> On 1/27/2011 11:23 PM, Raj Saini wrote:
>> I tried to use the entity engine exactly the way you have described. I faced the problems as entity engine depends entity-ext (for some cache management) and entity-ext depends on service engine. If we resolve this dependency, entity engine can certainly be a standalone jar and as you said it can be packaged as OSGi bundle. We will also need to take care of entityengine.xml configuration so that it can be loaded from a pre-defined location instead of a classpath.
>>
>> Raj
>>
>> On Friday 28 January 2011 12:28 PM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>> I was picturing the entity engine as a lower level artifact - like a jar file. I don't have all of the details worked out yet, but what I picture is this:
>>>
>>> 1. An application needs a database-agnostic data store.
>>> 2. The application accesses the data store though the entity engine API/ jar library.
>>>
>>> Ofbiz has a very convenient way of defining databases, tables, and views as XML files. Plus, it has the ability to create/modify table/index structures during start-up. I believe that would be a very handy tool for anyone wanting to create any application that requires data storage.
>>>
>>> Wrapping the entity engine jar file in an OSGI bundle would be trivial.
>>>
>>> If anyone is interested in exploring this further, then they should create a Jira issue and we can take it from there.
>>>
>>> -Adrian
>>>
>>> On 1/27/2011 10:21 PM, Raj Saini wrote:
>>>> I will certainly be glad to help in this. I had re-packaged the entity engine as and OSGi bundle and exposed the delegator as osgi service. I found minor issues like loading of entityengine.xml from classpath and this did not go well with the OSGi. Let us wait for the the restructuring of the OFBiz project.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Raj
>>>>
>>>> On Friday 28 January 2011 10:58 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>> Cool. If anyone is interested in working on that, I am available to help.
>>>>>
>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>
>>>>> On 1/27/2011 9:23 PM, Raj Saini wrote:
>>>>>> Yes, I agree. Entity Engine and Service Engine are two such marvellous pieces of technologies. Entity engine can very well compete with Java Persistence API (JPA) if it is separated from the OFBiz runtime.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Raj
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Friday 28 January 2011 10:26 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>>> I have suggested that in the past. OFBiz has spawned some great technology that, if modified to be stand-alone subsystems, could be their own projects.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 1/27/2011 8:52 PM, Raj Saini wrote:
>>>>>>>> One thing I would like to see is to use the OSGi runtime for framework. This will help modularising efforts. For example entity engine, service engine, security etc. will be OSGi bundles running on top of OSGi framework such Apache Karaf. Apache ServiceMix is already using Karaf (http://karaf.apache.org). I did a prototype and embedded the OFBiz in OSGi runtime (http://sourceforge.net/projects/ofbiz-osgi/) and it worked well.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Raj
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Thursday 27 January 2011 03:01 PM, Pierre Smits wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This thread is about where you want the community to go with the underlying
>>>>>>>>> core components of OFBiz (aka the Framework).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The framework is the enables of all applications and business processes and
>>>>>>>>> users of the product. It is about security, and about a future proof and
>>>>>>>>> reliable platform for developing applications on.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What do feel is important? What should be removed from the framework. what
>>>>>>>>> should be included? What can be enhanced? And what not?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Please let all of us know what you think is important regarding the
>>>>>>>>> framework so that we (the community) can take stock and draw up a plan for
>>>>>>>>> comming releases.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Pierre
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>

[rajsaini]

Done.

https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-4153

Raj

On Friday 28 January 2011 01:07 PM, Adrian Crum wrote:

> There is no doubt there will be problems. We can tackle them one at a
> time in a Jira issue.
>
> I wasn't aware that entity-ext depends on the service engine. Maybe a
> Jira sub-task could break that dependency.
>
> I think the entityengine.xml file issue can be resolved through
> standard Java resource loader methods. In other words, applications
> will name their XML files according to a pre-defined format, and the
> entity-engine jar file will find and load all matching XML files. Just
> think of them as a resource file. Again - these details should be
> discussed further in a Jira issue.
>
> -Adrian
>
>
> On 1/27/2011 11:23 PM, Raj Saini wrote:
>> I tried to use the entity engine exactly the way you have described.
>> I faced the problems as entity engine depends entity-ext (for some
>> cache management) and entity-ext depends on service engine. If we
>> resolve this dependency, entity engine can certainly be a standalone
>> jar and as you said it can be packaged as OSGi bundle. We will also
>> need to take care of entityengine.xml configuration so that it can be
>> loaded from a pre-defined location instead of a classpath.
>>
>> Raj
>>
>> On Friday 28 January 2011 12:28 PM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>> I was picturing the entity engine as a lower level artifact - like a
>>> jar file. I don't have all of the details worked out yet, but what I
>>> picture is this:
>>>
>>> 1. An application needs a database-agnostic data store.
>>> 2. The application accesses the data store though the entity engine
>>> API/ jar library.
>>>
>>> Ofbiz has a very convenient way of defining databases, tables, and
>>> views as XML files. Plus, it has the ability to create/modify
>>> table/index structures during start-up. I believe that would be a
>>> very handy tool for anyone wanting to create any application that
>>> requires data storage.
>>>
>>> Wrapping the entity engine jar file in an OSGI bundle would be trivial.
>>>
>>> If anyone is interested in exploring this further, then they should
>>> create a Jira issue and we can take it from there.
>>>
>>> -Adrian
>>>
>>> On 1/27/2011 10:21 PM, Raj Saini wrote:
>>>> I will certainly be glad to help in this. I had re-packaged the
>>>> entity engine as and OSGi bundle and exposed the delegator as osgi
>>>> service. I found minor issues like loading of entityengine.xml from
>>>> classpath and this did not go well with the OSGi. Let us wait for
>>>> the the restructuring of the OFBiz project.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Raj
>>>>
>>>> On Friday 28 January 2011 10:58 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>> Cool. If anyone is interested in working on that, I am available
>>>>> to help.
>>>>>
>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>
>>>>> On 1/27/2011 9:23 PM, Raj Saini wrote:
>>>>>> Yes, I agree. Entity Engine and Service Engine are two such
>>>>>> marvellous pieces of technologies. Entity engine can very well
>>>>>> compete with Java Persistence API (JPA) if it is separated from
>>>>>> the OFBiz runtime.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Raj
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Friday 28 January 2011 10:26 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>>> I have suggested that in the past. OFBiz has spawned some great
>>>>>>> technology that, if modified to be stand-alone subsystems, could
>>>>>>> be their own projects.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 1/27/2011 8:52 PM, Raj Saini wrote:
>>>>>>>> One thing I would like to see is to use the OSGi runtime for
>>>>>>>> framework. This will help modularising efforts. For example
>>>>>>>> entity engine, service engine, security etc. will be OSGi
>>>>>>>> bundles running on top of OSGi framework such Apache Karaf.
>>>>>>>> Apache ServiceMix is already using Karaf
>>>>>>>> (http://karaf.apache.org). I did a prototype and embedded the
>>>>>>>> OFBiz in OSGi runtime
>>>>>>>> (http://sourceforge.net/projects/ofbiz-osgi/) and it worked well.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Raj
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Thursday 27 January 2011 03:01 PM, Pierre Smits wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This thread is about where you want the community to go with
>>>>>>>>> the underlying
>>>>>>>>> core components of OFBiz (aka the Framework).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The framework is the enables of all applications and business
>>>>>>>>> processes and
>>>>>>>>> users of the product. It is about security, and about a future
>>>>>>>>> proof and
>>>>>>>>> reliable platform for developing applications on.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What do feel is important? What should be removed from the
>>>>>>>>> framework. what
>>>>>>>>> should be included? What can be enhanced? And what not?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Please let all of us know what you think is important
>>>>>>>>> regarding the
>>>>>>>>> framework so that we (the community) can take stock and draw
>>>>>>>>> up a plan for
>>>>>>>>> comming releases.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Pierre
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>

[Adrian Crum-3]

Thanks Scott! We will keep that in mind.

-Adrian

On 1/27/2011 11:49 PM, Scott Gray wrote:

> On 28/01/2011, at 8:37 PM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>
>> There is no doubt there will be problems. We can tackle them one at a time in a Jira issue.
>>
>> I wasn't aware that entity-ext depends on the service engine. Maybe a Jira sub-task could break that dependency.
> That's kind of the point of entity-ext, to supplement the entity engine with service engine capabilities.
>
>> I think the entityengine.xml file issue can be resolved through standard Java resource loader methods. In other words, applications will name their XML files according to a pre-defined format, and the entity-engine jar file will find and load all matching XML files. Just think of them as a resource file. Again - these details should be discussed further in a Jira issue.
>>
>> -Adrian
>>
>>
>> On 1/27/2011 11:23 PM, Raj Saini wrote:
>>> I tried to use the entity engine exactly the way you have described. I faced the problems as entity engine depends entity-ext (for some cache management) and entity-ext depends on service engine. If we resolve this dependency, entity engine can certainly be a standalone jar and as you said it can be packaged as OSGi bundle. We will also need to take care of entityengine.xml configuration so that it can be loaded from a pre-defined location instead of a classpath.
>>>
>>> Raj
>>>
>>> On Friday 28 January 2011 12:28 PM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>> I was picturing the entity engine as a lower level artifact - like a jar file. I don't have all of the details worked out yet, but what I picture is this:
>>>>
>>>> 1. An application needs a database-agnostic data store.
>>>> 2. The application accesses the data store though the entity engine API/ jar library.
>>>>
>>>> Ofbiz has a very convenient way of defining databases, tables, and views as XML files. Plus, it has the ability to create/modify table/index structures during start-up. I believe that would be a very handy tool for anyone wanting to create any application that requires data storage.
>>>>
>>>> Wrapping the entity engine jar file in an OSGI bundle would be trivial.
>>>>
>>>> If anyone is interested in exploring this further, then they should create a Jira issue and we can take it from there.
>>>>
>>>> -Adrian
>>>>
>>>> On 1/27/2011 10:21 PM, Raj Saini wrote:
>>>>> I will certainly be glad to help in this. I had re-packaged the entity engine as and OSGi bundle and exposed the delegator as osgi service. I found minor issues like loading of entityengine.xml from classpath and this did not go well with the OSGi. Let us wait for the the restructuring of the OFBiz project.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> Raj
>>>>>
>>>>> On Friday 28 January 2011 10:58 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>> Cool. If anyone is interested in working on that, I am available to help.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 1/27/2011 9:23 PM, Raj Saini wrote:
>>>>>>> Yes, I agree. Entity Engine and Service Engine are two such marvellous pieces of technologies. Entity engine can very well compete with Java Persistence API (JPA) if it is separated from the OFBiz runtime.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Raj
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Friday 28 January 2011 10:26 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>>>> I have suggested that in the past. OFBiz has spawned some great technology that, if modified to be stand-alone subsystems, could be their own projects.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 1/27/2011 8:52 PM, Raj Saini wrote:
>>>>>>>>> One thing I would like to see is to use the OSGi runtime for framework. This will help modularising efforts. For example entity engine, service engine, security etc. will be OSGi bundles running on top of OSGi framework such Apache Karaf. Apache ServiceMix is already using Karaf (http://karaf.apache.org). I did a prototype and embedded the OFBiz in OSGi runtime (http://sourceforge.net/projects/ofbiz-osgi/) and it worked well.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Raj
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Thursday 27 January 2011 03:01 PM, Pierre Smits wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This thread is about where you want the community to go with the underlying
>>>>>>>>>> core components of OFBiz (aka the Framework).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The framework is the enables of all applications and business processes and
>>>>>>>>>> users of the product. It is about security, and about a future proof and
>>>>>>>>>> reliable platform for developing applications on.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> What do feel is important? What should be removed from the framework. what
>>>>>>>>>> should be included? What can be enhanced? And what not?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Please let all of us know what you think is important regarding the
>>>>>>>>>> framework so that we (the community) can take stock and draw up a plan for
>>>>>>>>>> comming releases.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Pierre
>>>>>>>>>>

[Michael Xu (xudong)]

I also suggested that before. What I like is JIRA plugin framework, which is
on top of OSGI. OSGI brings the ability that plugin could be loaded runtime,
which is very important to bring ofbiz up to cloud..

--
Regards,
Michael Xu (xudong)


On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 3:59 PM, Adrian Crum <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Thanks Scott! We will keep that in mind.
>
> -Adrian
>
>
> On 1/27/2011 11:49 PM, Scott Gray wrote:
>
>> On 28/01/2011, at 8:37 PM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>
>>  There is no doubt there will be problems. We can tackle them one at a
>>> time in a Jira issue.
>>>
>>> I wasn't aware that entity-ext depends on the service engine. Maybe a
>>> Jira sub-task could break that dependency.
>>>
>> That's kind of the point of entity-ext, to supplement the entity engine
>> with service engine capabilities.
>>
>>  I think the entityengine.xml file issue can be resolved through standard
>>> Java resource loader methods. In other words, applications will name their
>>> XML files according to a pre-defined format, and the entity-engine jar file
>>> will find and load all matching XML files. Just think of them as a resource
>>> file. Again - these details should be discussed further in a Jira issue.
>>>
>>> -Adrian
>>>
>>>
>>> On 1/27/2011 11:23 PM, Raj Saini wrote:
>>>
>>>> I tried to use the entity engine exactly the way you have described. I
>>>> faced the problems as entity engine depends entity-ext (for some cache
>>>> management) and entity-ext depends on service engine. If we resolve this
>>>> dependency, entity engine can certainly be a standalone jar and as you said
>>>> it can be packaged as OSGi bundle. We will also need to take care of
>>>> entityengine.xml configuration so that it can be loaded from a pre-defined
>>>> location instead of a classpath.
>>>>
>>>> Raj
>>>>
>>>> On Friday 28 January 2011 12:28 PM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I was picturing the entity engine as a lower level artifact - like a
>>>>> jar file. I don't have all of the details worked out yet, but what I picture
>>>>> is this:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. An application needs a database-agnostic data store.
>>>>> 2. The application accesses the data store though the entity engine
>>>>> API/ jar library.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ofbiz has a very convenient way of defining databases, tables, and
>>>>> views as XML files. Plus, it has the ability to create/modify table/index
>>>>> structures during start-up. I believe that would be a very handy tool for
>>>>> anyone wanting to create any application that requires data storage.
>>>>>
>>>>> Wrapping the entity engine jar file in an OSGI bundle would be trivial.
>>>>>
>>>>> If anyone is interested in exploring this further, then they should
>>>>> create a Jira issue and we can take it from there.
>>>>>
>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>
>>>>> On 1/27/2011 10:21 PM, Raj Saini wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I will certainly be glad to help in this. I had re-packaged the entity
>>>>>> engine as and OSGi bundle and exposed the delegator as osgi service. I found
>>>>>> minor issues like loading of entityengine.xml from classpath and this did
>>>>>> not go well with the OSGi. Let us wait for the the restructuring of the
>>>>>> OFBiz project.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Raj
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Friday 28 January 2011 10:58 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cool. If anyone is interested in working on that, I am available to
>>>>>>> help.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 1/27/2011 9:23 PM, Raj Saini wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yes, I agree. Entity Engine and Service Engine are two such
>>>>>>>> marvellous pieces of technologies. Entity engine can very well compete with
>>>>>>>> Java Persistence API (JPA) if it is separated from the OFBiz runtime.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Raj
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Friday 28 January 2011 10:26 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I have suggested that in the past. OFBiz has spawned some great
>>>>>>>>> technology that, if modified to be stand-alone subsystems, could be their
>>>>>>>>> own projects.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 1/27/2011 8:52 PM, Raj Saini wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> One thing I would like to see is to use the OSGi runtime for
>>>>>>>>>> framework. This will help modularising efforts. For example entity engine,
>>>>>>>>>> service engine, security etc. will be OSGi bundles running on top of OSGi
>>>>>>>>>> framework such Apache Karaf. Apache ServiceMix is already using Karaf (
>>>>>>>>>> http://karaf.apache.org). I did a prototype and embedded the
>>>>>>>>>> OFBiz in OSGi runtime (
>>>>>>>>>> http://sourceforge.net/projects/ofbiz-osgi/) and it worked well.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Raj
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday 27 January 2011 03:01 PM, Pierre Smits wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> This thread is about where you want the community to go with the
>>>>>>>>>>> underlying
>>>>>>>>>>> core components of OFBiz (aka the Framework).
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The framework is the enables of all applications and business
>>>>>>>>>>> processes and
>>>>>>>>>>> users of the product. It is about security, and about a future
>>>>>>>>>>> proof and
>>>>>>>>>>> reliable platform for developing applications on.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> What do feel is important? What should be removed from the
>>>>>>>>>>> framework. what
>>>>>>>>>>> should be included? What can be enhanced? And what not?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Please let all of us know what you think is important regarding
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> framework so that we (the community) can take stock and draw up a
>>>>>>>>>>> plan for
>>>>>>>>>>> comming releases.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Pierre
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>