[OFBiz] Users - Accounting Extension (GL, etc) Now In Beta

[David E. Jones]

Update: Accounting/GL Now in Beta Testing

The Open For Business Accounting and General Ledger (GL) application  
is now moving into beta testing. Currently, it can  support the  
accounting needs of most product-retail businesses that use Open For  
Business, including:

    * Support for multiple organizations and multiple currencies
    * Setting up chart of accounts with unlimited depth
    * General Ledger posting for most key business processes
    * Financial reports including trial balance, income statements, and
      balance sheets
    * Screens to create and manage both Accounts Receivable (AR) and
      Accounts Payable (AP) invoices and payments
    * Screens for managing tax liabilities across multiple  
jurisdictions
    * Administrative features such as periodic closings
    * Flexible entry and maintenance of payments and invoice (including
      application payments to invoices, etc)
    * Export to outside accounting applications (QBXML for  
QuickBooks is
      included)

This application is fully integrated with the rest of OFBiz,  
including ecommerce, Point Of Sales, order manager, and facilities  
manager.  It drops into your hot-deploy/ directory and runs right  
away.  If you need other accounting-related features, such as  
payroll, it is fairly easy to develop a plug in for it.

If you would like to learn more about the GL application, there is a  
video from the St. Louis Users' Conference (http://www.ofbiz.org/ 
VideosConf.html) and an online demo (http://
www.opensourcestrategies.com/ofbiz/demos.php).

How to Make it Open Source

The Accounting and General Ledger is developed under a community  
funding model. The idea is to get community funding to help cover the  
cost of developing a large, complex application. We think this is a  
very fair user-driven model because it can produce open source  
software with either a large number of small contributors or a small  
number of larger contributors. As an added incentive, those who  
contribute over $3,000 can begin to use the application immediately  
and benefit from all its features for a fraction of the cost of in-
house development.

We've currently received sponsorship for about half the development  
costs ($26,000 out of about $50,000) and require another $24,000 to  
reach our goal and release it under an open source license. This  
means that we can get there with just eight user-contributors with  
$3,000 each or, alternatively, a hundred contributors of under $250  
each.

-Si Chen
-David E. Jones

P.S. Special thanks to all who have contributed labor and funds to  
this effort, including: Open Source Strategies, Undersun Consulting,  
Ant Websystems, Masterfile Corp, and others.


 
_______________________________________________
Users mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users

[BJ Freeman]

Here is and update from couple of years ago.
previously there was discussion about the frame work of this.
if I did all these out, is there a place on the documentation site we
can put them to save a lot of re discussion.

David E. Jones sent the following on 9/23/2005 4:16 PM:

>
> Update: Accounting/GL Now in Beta Testing
>
> The Open For Business Accounting and General Ledger (GL) application is
> now moving into beta testing. Currently, it can  support the accounting
> needs of most product-retail businesses that use Open For Business,
> including:
>
>    * Support for multiple organizations and multiple currencies
>    * Setting up chart of accounts with unlimited depth
>    * General Ledger posting for most key business processes
>    * Financial reports including trial balance, income statements, and
>      balance sheets
>    * Screens to create and manage both Accounts Receivable (AR) and
>      Accounts Payable (AP) invoices and payments
>    * Screens for managing tax liabilities across multiple  jurisdictions
>    * Administrative features such as periodic closings
>    * Flexible entry and maintenance of payments and invoice (including
>      application payments to invoices, etc)
>    * Export to outside accounting applications (QBXML for  QuickBooks is
>      included)
>
> This application is fully integrated with the rest of OFBiz,  including
> ecommerce, Point Of Sales, order manager, and facilities  manager.  It
> drops into your hot-deploy/ directory and runs right  away.  If you need
> other accounting-related features, such as  payroll, it is fairly easy
> to develop a plug in for it.
>
> If you would like to learn more about the GL application, there is a
> video from the St. Louis Users' Conference
> (http://www.ofbiz.org/VideosConf.html) and an online demo
> (http://www.opensourcestrategies.com/ofbiz/demos.php).
>
> How to Make it Open Source
>
> The Accounting and General Ledger is developed under a community funding
> model. The idea is to get community funding to help cover the cost of
> developing a large, complex application. We think this is a very fair
> user-driven model because it can produce open source software with
> either a large number of small contributors or a small number of larger
> contributors. As an added incentive, those who contribute over $3,000
> can begin to use the application immediately and benefit from all its
> features for a fraction of the cost of in-house development.
>
> We've currently received sponsorship for about half the development
> costs ($26,000 out of about $50,000) and require another $24,000 to
> reach our goal and release it under an open source license. This means
> that we can get there with just eight user-contributors with $3,000 each
> or, alternatively, a hundred contributors of under $250 each.
>
> -Si Chen
> -David E. Jones
>
> P.S. Special thanks to all who have contributed labor and funds to this
> effort, including: Open Source Strategies, Undersun Consulting, Ant
> Websystems, Masterfile Corp, and others.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>  
> _______________________________________________
> Users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users

[Jim Barrows]

So what is the status?  Do we have to pay for it?  Is it done?  i
would think that in 2 years it would've gotten done by now.

On Nov 20, 2007 4:48 PM, BJ Freeman <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Here is and update from couple of years ago.
> previously there was discussion about the frame work of this.
> if I did all these out, is there a place on the documentation site we
> can put them to save a lot of re discussion.
>
> David E. Jones sent the following on 9/23/2005 4:16 PM:
> >
> > Update: Accounting/GL Now in Beta Testing
> >
> > The Open For Business Accounting and General Ledger (GL) application is
> > now moving into beta testing. Currently, it can  support the accounting
> > needs of most product-retail businesses that use Open For Business,
> > including:
> >
> >    * Support for multiple organizations and multiple currencies
> >    * Setting up chart of accounts with unlimited depth
> >    * General Ledger posting for most key business processes
> >    * Financial reports including trial balance, income statements, and
> >      balance sheets
> >    * Screens to create and manage both Accounts Receivable (AR) and
> >      Accounts Payable (AP) invoices and payments
> >    * Screens for managing tax liabilities across multiple  jurisdictions
> >    * Administrative features such as periodic closings
> >    * Flexible entry and maintenance of payments and invoice (including
> >      application payments to invoices, etc)
> >    * Export to outside accounting applications (QBXML for  QuickBooks is
> >      included)
> >
> > This application is fully integrated with the rest of OFBiz,  including
> > ecommerce, Point Of Sales, order manager, and facilities  manager.  It
> > drops into your hot-deploy/ directory and runs right  away.  If you need
> > other accounting-related features, such as  payroll, it is fairly easy
> > to develop a plug in for it.
> >
> > If you would like to learn more about the GL application, there is a
> > video from the St. Louis Users' Conference
> > (http://www.ofbiz.org/VideosConf.html) and an online demo
> > (http://www.opensourcestrategies.com/ofbiz/demos.php).
> >
> > How to Make it Open Source
> >
> > The Accounting and General Ledger is developed under a community funding
> > model. The idea is to get community funding to help cover the cost of
> > developing a large, complex application. We think this is a very fair
> > user-driven model because it can produce open source software with
> > either a large number of small contributors or a small number of larger
> > contributors. As an added incentive, those who contribute over $3,000
> > can begin to use the application immediately and benefit from all its
> > features for a fraction of the cost of in-house development.
> >
> > We've currently received sponsorship for about half the development
> > costs ($26,000 out of about $50,000) and require another $24,000 to
> > reach our goal and release it under an open source license. This means
> > that we can get there with just eight user-contributors with $3,000 each
> > or, alternatively, a hundred contributors of under $250 each.
> >
> > -Si Chen
> > -David E. Jones
> >
> > P.S. Special thanks to all who have contributed labor and funds to this
> > effort, including: Open Source Strategies, Undersun Consulting, Ant
> > Websystems, Masterfile Corp, and others.
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Users mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>

--
James A Barrows

[David E Jones]

That is very old, and a lot has changed since then, including what  
happened to this code base. All of the lower level stuff including the  
data structures and GL posting services are part of OFBiz, but the  
higher level things such as reports and automated posting mapping  
services (from things like invoices, payments, inventory changes, etc)  
are all part of the HPL licensed financials component from Open Source  
Strategies, part of the opentaps distribution (semi-fork these days,  
lots of stuff implemented that doesn't go back into OFBiz).

For more information you should see their site at  
opensourcestrategies.com. The HPL (Honest Public License) is a not an  
OSI approved license and has some rather unpleasant terms in it, the  
goal being to force contributions or purchase of a commercial license  
(just like pretty much all "open source" companies that dual license,  
usually with GPL though). The main thing with HPL is that if you make  
it available over the internet it explicitly states that this is  
public distribution of the software (for  more details see the license  
itself).

In any case, that is why you're seeing discussion of implementing  
these things even though there is an OFBiz add-on that has them, and  
hence all of the references to another project that is licensed in  
terms that make it hard to build a community around, and that can't be  
included with OFBiz, etc.

-David


On Nov 20, 2007, at 4:54 PM, Jim Barrows wrote:

> So what is the status?  Do we have to pay for it?  Is it done?  i
> would think that in 2 years it would've gotten done by now.
>
> On Nov 20, 2007 4:48 PM, BJ Freeman <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Here is and update from couple of years ago.
>> previously there was discussion about the frame work of this.
>> if I did all these out, is there a place on the documentation site we
>> can put them to save a lot of re discussion.
>>
>> David E. Jones sent the following on 9/23/2005 4:16 PM:
>>>
>>> Update: Accounting/GL Now in Beta Testing
>>>
>>> The Open For Business Accounting and General Ledger (GL)  
>>> application is
>>> now moving into beta testing. Currently, it can  support the  
>>> accounting
>>> needs of most product-retail businesses that use Open For Business,
>>> including:
>>>
>>>   * Support for multiple organizations and multiple currencies
>>>   * Setting up chart of accounts with unlimited depth
>>>   * General Ledger posting for most key business processes
>>>   * Financial reports including trial balance, income statements,  
>>> and
>>>     balance sheets
>>>   * Screens to create and manage both Accounts Receivable (AR) and
>>>     Accounts Payable (AP) invoices and payments
>>>   * Screens for managing tax liabilities across multiple  
>>> jurisdictions
>>>   * Administrative features such as periodic closings
>>>   * Flexible entry and maintenance of payments and invoice  
>>> (including
>>>     application payments to invoices, etc)
>>>   * Export to outside accounting applications (QBXML for  
>>> QuickBooks is
>>>     included)
>>>
>>> This application is fully integrated with the rest of OFBiz,  
>>> including
>>> ecommerce, Point Of Sales, order manager, and facilities  
>>> manager.  It
>>> drops into your hot-deploy/ directory and runs right  away.  If  
>>> you need
>>> other accounting-related features, such as  payroll, it is fairly  
>>> easy
>>> to develop a plug in for it.
>>>
>>> If you would like to learn more about the GL application, there is a
>>> video from the St. Louis Users' Conference
>>> (http://www.ofbiz.org/VideosConf.html) and an online demo
>>> (http://www.opensourcestrategies.com/ofbiz/demos.php).
>>>
>>> How to Make it Open Source
>>>
>>> The Accounting and General Ledger is developed under a community  
>>> funding
>>> model. The idea is to get community funding to help cover the cost  
>>> of
>>> developing a large, complex application. We think this is a very  
>>> fair
>>> user-driven model because it can produce open source software with
>>> either a large number of small contributors or a small number of  
>>> larger
>>> contributors. As an added incentive, those who contribute over  
>>> $3,000
>>> can begin to use the application immediately and benefit from all  
>>> its
>>> features for a fraction of the cost of in-house development.
>>>
>>> We've currently received sponsorship for about half the development
>>> costs ($26,000 out of about $50,000) and require another $24,000 to
>>> reach our goal and release it under an open source license. This  
>>> means
>>> that we can get there with just eight user-contributors with  
>>> $3,000 each
>>> or, alternatively, a hundred contributors of under $250 each.
>>>
>>> -Si Chen
>>> -David E. Jones
>>>
>>> P.S. Special thanks to all who have contributed labor and funds to  
>>> this
>>> effort, including: Open Source Strategies, Undersun Consulting, Ant
>>> Websystems, Masterfile Corp, and others.
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Users mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>>
>
>
>
> --
> James A Barrows

[BJ Freeman]

actually I wanted to find the discussiong about OSI framework.
but got side tracked.

David E Jones sent the following on 11/20/2007 4:12 PM:

>
> That is very old, and a lot has changed since then, including what
> happened to this code base. All of the lower level stuff including the
> data structures and GL posting services are part of OFBiz, but the
> higher level things such as reports and automated posting mapping
> services (from things like invoices, payments, inventory changes, etc)
> are all part of the HPL licensed financials component from Open Source
> Strategies, part of the opentaps distribution (semi-fork these days,
> lots of stuff implemented that doesn't go back into OFBiz).
>
> For more information you should see their site at
> opensourcestrategies.com. The HPL (Honest Public License) is a not an
> OSI approved license and has some rather unpleasant terms in it, the
> goal being to force contributions or purchase of a commercial license
> (just like pretty much all "open source" companies that dual license,
> usually with GPL though). The main thing with HPL is that if you make it
> available over the internet it explicitly states that this is public
> distribution of the software (for  more details see the license itself).
>
> In any case, that is why you're seeing discussion of implementing these
> things even though there is an OFBiz add-on that has them, and hence all
> of the references to another project that is licensed in terms that make
> it hard to build a community around, and that can't be included with
> OFBiz, etc.
>
> -David
>
>
> On Nov 20, 2007, at 4:54 PM, Jim Barrows wrote:
>
>> So what is the status?  Do we have to pay for it?  Is it done?  i
>> would think that in 2 years it would've gotten done by now.
>>
>> On Nov 20, 2007 4:48 PM, BJ Freeman <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Here is and update from couple of years ago.
>>> previously there was discussion about the frame work of this.
>>> if I did all these out, is there a place on the documentation site we
>>> can put them to save a lot of re discussion.
>>>
>>> David E. Jones sent the following on 9/23/2005 4:16 PM:
>>>>
>>>> Update: Accounting/GL Now in Beta Testing
>>>>
>>>> The Open For Business Accounting and General Ledger (GL) application is
>>>> now moving into beta testing. Currently, it can  support the accounting
>>>> needs of most product-retail businesses that use Open For Business,
>>>> including:
>>>>
>>>>   * Support for multiple organizations and multiple currencies
>>>>   * Setting up chart of accounts with unlimited depth
>>>>   * General Ledger posting for most key business processes
>>>>   * Financial reports including trial balance, income statements, and
>>>>     balance sheets
>>>>   * Screens to create and manage both Accounts Receivable (AR) and
>>>>     Accounts Payable (AP) invoices and payments
>>>>   * Screens for managing tax liabilities across multiple  jurisdictions
>>>>   * Administrative features such as periodic closings
>>>>   * Flexible entry and maintenance of payments and invoice (including
>>>>     application payments to invoices, etc)
>>>>   * Export to outside accounting applications (QBXML for  QuickBooks is
>>>>     included)
>>>>
>>>> This application is fully integrated with the rest of OFBiz,  including
>>>> ecommerce, Point Of Sales, order manager, and facilities  manager.  It
>>>> drops into your hot-deploy/ directory and runs right  away.  If you
>>>> need
>>>> other accounting-related features, such as  payroll, it is fairly easy
>>>> to develop a plug in for it.
>>>>
>>>> If you would like to learn more about the GL application, there is a
>>>> video from the St. Louis Users' Conference
>>>> (http://www.ofbiz.org/VideosConf.html) and an online demo
>>>> (http://www.opensourcestrategies.com/ofbiz/demos.php).
>>>>
>>>> How to Make it Open Source
>>>>
>>>> The Accounting and General Ledger is developed under a community
>>>> funding
>>>> model. The idea is to get community funding to help cover the cost of
>>>> developing a large, complex application. We think this is a very fair
>>>> user-driven model because it can produce open source software with
>>>> either a large number of small contributors or a small number of larger
>>>> contributors. As an added incentive, those who contribute over $3,000
>>>> can begin to use the application immediately and benefit from all its
>>>> features for a fraction of the cost of in-house development.
>>>>
>>>> We've currently received sponsorship for about half the development
>>>> costs ($26,000 out of about $50,000) and require another $24,000 to
>>>> reach our goal and release it under an open source license. This means
>>>> that we can get there with just eight user-contributors with $3,000
>>>> each
>>>> or, alternatively, a hundred contributors of under $250 each.
>>>>
>>>> -Si Chen
>>>> -David E. Jones
>>>>
>>>> P.S. Special thanks to all who have contributed labor and funds to this
>>>> effort, including: Open Source Strategies, Undersun Consulting, Ant
>>>> Websystems, Masterfile Corp, and others.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Users mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --James A Barrows
>

[Jim Barrows]

Ok, so we still want to build this.. only better :)

On Nov 20, 2007 5:12 PM, David E Jones <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> That is very old, and a lot has changed since then, including what
> happened to this code base. All of the lower level stuff including the
> data structures and GL posting services are part of OFBiz, but the
> higher level things such as reports and automated posting mapping
> services (from things like invoices, payments, inventory changes, etc)
> are all part of the HPL licensed financials component from Open Source
> Strategies, part of the opentaps distribution (semi-fork these days,
> lots of stuff implemented that doesn't go back into OFBiz).
>
> For more information you should see their site at
> opensourcestrategies.com. The HPL (Honest Public License) is a not an
> OSI approved license and has some rather unpleasant terms in it, the
> goal being to force contributions or purchase of a commercial license
> (just like pretty much all "open source" companies that dual license,
> usually with GPL though). The main thing with HPL is that if you make
> it available over the internet it explicitly states that this is
> public distribution of the software (for  more details see the license
> itself).
>
> In any case, that is why you're seeing discussion of implementing
> these things even though there is an OFBiz add-on that has them, and
> hence all of the references to another project that is licensed in
> terms that make it hard to build a community around, and that can't be
> included with OFBiz, etc.
>
> -David
>
>
>
> On Nov 20, 2007, at 4:54 PM, Jim Barrows wrote:
>
> > So what is the status?  Do we have to pay for it?  Is it done?  i
> > would think that in 2 years it would've gotten done by now.
> >
> > On Nov 20, 2007 4:48 PM, BJ Freeman <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> Here is and update from couple of years ago.
> >> previously there was discussion about the frame work of this.
> >> if I did all these out, is there a place on the documentation site we
> >> can put them to save a lot of re discussion.
> >>
> >> David E. Jones sent the following on 9/23/2005 4:16 PM:
> >>>
> >>> Update: Accounting/GL Now in Beta Testing
> >>>
> >>> The Open For Business Accounting and General Ledger (GL)
> >>> application is
> >>> now moving into beta testing. Currently, it can  support the
> >>> accounting
> >>> needs of most product-retail businesses that use Open For Business,
> >>> including:
> >>>
> >>>   * Support for multiple organizations and multiple currencies
> >>>   * Setting up chart of accounts with unlimited depth
> >>>   * General Ledger posting for most key business processes
> >>>   * Financial reports including trial balance, income statements,
> >>> and
> >>>     balance sheets
> >>>   * Screens to create and manage both Accounts Receivable (AR) and
> >>>     Accounts Payable (AP) invoices and payments
> >>>   * Screens for managing tax liabilities across multiple
> >>> jurisdictions
> >>>   * Administrative features such as periodic closings
> >>>   * Flexible entry and maintenance of payments and invoice
> >>> (including
> >>>     application payments to invoices, etc)
> >>>   * Export to outside accounting applications (QBXML for
> >>> QuickBooks is
> >>>     included)
> >>>
> >>> This application is fully integrated with the rest of OFBiz,
> >>> including
> >>> ecommerce, Point Of Sales, order manager, and facilities
> >>> manager.  It
> >>> drops into your hot-deploy/ directory and runs right  away.  If
> >>> you need
> >>> other accounting-related features, such as  payroll, it is fairly
> >>> easy
> >>> to develop a plug in for it.
> >>>
> >>> If you would like to learn more about the GL application, there is a
> >>> video from the St. Louis Users' Conference
> >>> (http://www.ofbiz.org/VideosConf.html) and an online demo
> >>> (http://www.opensourcestrategies.com/ofbiz/demos.php).
> >>>
> >>> How to Make it Open Source
> >>>
> >>> The Accounting and General Ledger is developed under a community
> >>> funding
> >>> model. The idea is to get community funding to help cover the cost
> >>> of
> >>> developing a large, complex application. We think this is a very
> >>> fair
> >>> user-driven model because it can produce open source software with
> >>> either a large number of small contributors or a small number of
> >>> larger
> >>> contributors. As an added incentive, those who contribute over
> >>> $3,000
> >>> can begin to use the application immediately and benefit from all
> >>> its
> >>> features for a fraction of the cost of in-house development.
> >>>
> >>> We've currently received sponsorship for about half the development
> >>> costs ($26,000 out of about $50,000) and require another $24,000 to
> >>> reach our goal and release it under an open source license. This
> >>> means
> >>> that we can get there with just eight user-contributors with
> >>> $3,000 each
> >>> or, alternatively, a hundred contributors of under $250 each.
> >>>
> >>> -Si Chen
> >>> -David E. Jones
> >>>
> >>> P.S. Special thanks to all who have contributed labor and funds to
> >>> this
> >>> effort, including: Open Source Strategies, Undersun Consulting, Ant
> >>> Websystems, Masterfile Corp, and others.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Users mailing list
> >>> [hidden email]
> >>> http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > James A Barrows
>
>

--
James A Barrows

[Jacopo Cappellato]

Hi Jim, (and others interested in helping with the implementation of the
accounting component)

can I add you to the list of "people interested" in this page:

http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBADMIN/New+Features+Roadmap+-+Draft

?

If you (or others in this list) are willing to help with the
implementation I will do my best to help to organize the work in the
community (and also implement something).

The main question to the ones interested are:

- are there specific tasks you would like to work on?
- if not, we can help to assign/distribute tasks, but it would be useful
to know what is your area of expertise: tech (Java, minilang,
screen/form widgets, etc...) or business (OFBiz data model, existing
services, general AR/AP...)

I've recently (yesterday and the day before it) I've cleaned up some
stuff in the accounting component (and implemented some new screens) and
now I have a clearer view of what is already available and what needs to
be done: now I'm sure that we can relatively quickly implement some good
stuff here with your help, so guys don't be shy!!!

Jacopo



Jim Barrows wrote:

> Ok, so we still want to build this.. only better :)
>
> On Nov 20, 2007 5:12 PM, David E Jones <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> That is very old, and a lot has changed since then, including what
>> happened to this code base. All of the lower level stuff including the
>> data structures and GL posting services are part of OFBiz, but the
>> higher level things such as reports and automated posting mapping
>> services (from things like invoices, payments, inventory changes, etc)
>> are all part of the HPL licensed financials component from Open Source
>> Strategies, part of the opentaps distribution (semi-fork these days,
>> lots of stuff implemented that doesn't go back into OFBiz).
>>
>> For more information you should see their site at
>> opensourcestrategies.com. The HPL (Honest Public License) is a not an
>> OSI approved license and has some rather unpleasant terms in it, the
>> goal being to force contributions or purchase of a commercial license
>> (just like pretty much all "open source" companies that dual license,
>> usually with GPL though). The main thing with HPL is that if you make
>> it available over the internet it explicitly states that this is
>> public distribution of the software (for  more details see the license
>> itself).
>>
>> In any case, that is why you're seeing discussion of implementing
>> these things even though there is an OFBiz add-on that has them, and
>> hence all of the references to another project that is licensed in
>> terms that make it hard to build a community around, and that can't be
>> included with OFBiz, etc.
>>
>> -David
>>
>>
>>
>> On Nov 20, 2007, at 4:54 PM, Jim Barrows wrote:
>>
>>> So what is the status?  Do we have to pay for it?  Is it done?  i
>>> would think that in 2 years it would've gotten done by now.
>>>
>>> On Nov 20, 2007 4:48 PM, BJ Freeman <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> Here is and update from couple of years ago.
>>>> previously there was discussion about the frame work of this.
>>>> if I did all these out, is there a place on the documentation site we
>>>> can put them to save a lot of re discussion.
>>>>
>>>> David E. Jones sent the following on 9/23/2005 4:16 PM:
>>>>> Update: Accounting/GL Now in Beta Testing
>>>>>
>>>>> The Open For Business Accounting and General Ledger (GL)
>>>>> application is
>>>>> now moving into beta testing. Currently, it can  support the
>>>>> accounting
>>>>> needs of most product-retail businesses that use Open For Business,
>>>>> including:
>>>>>
>>>>>   * Support for multiple organizations and multiple currencies
>>>>>   * Setting up chart of accounts with unlimited depth
>>>>>   * General Ledger posting for most key business processes
>>>>>   * Financial reports including trial balance, income statements,
>>>>> and
>>>>>     balance sheets
>>>>>   * Screens to create and manage both Accounts Receivable (AR) and
>>>>>     Accounts Payable (AP) invoices and payments
>>>>>   * Screens for managing tax liabilities across multiple
>>>>> jurisdictions
>>>>>   * Administrative features such as periodic closings
>>>>>   * Flexible entry and maintenance of payments and invoice
>>>>> (including
>>>>>     application payments to invoices, etc)
>>>>>   * Export to outside accounting applications (QBXML for
>>>>> QuickBooks is
>>>>>     included)
>>>>>
>>>>> This application is fully integrated with the rest of OFBiz,
>>>>> including
>>>>> ecommerce, Point Of Sales, order manager, and facilities
>>>>> manager.  It
>>>>> drops into your hot-deploy/ directory and runs right  away.  If
>>>>> you need
>>>>> other accounting-related features, such as  payroll, it is fairly
>>>>> easy
>>>>> to develop a plug in for it.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you would like to learn more about the GL application, there is a
>>>>> video from the St. Louis Users' Conference
>>>>> (http://www.ofbiz.org/VideosConf.html) and an online demo
>>>>> (http://www.opensourcestrategies.com/ofbiz/demos.php).
>>>>>
>>>>> How to Make it Open Source
>>>>>
>>>>> The Accounting and General Ledger is developed under a community
>>>>> funding
>>>>> model. The idea is to get community funding to help cover the cost
>>>>> of
>>>>> developing a large, complex application. We think this is a very
>>>>> fair
>>>>> user-driven model because it can produce open source software with
>>>>> either a large number of small contributors or a small number of
>>>>> larger
>>>>> contributors. As an added incentive, those who contribute over
>>>>> $3,000
>>>>> can begin to use the application immediately and benefit from all
>>>>> its
>>>>> features for a fraction of the cost of in-house development.
>>>>>
>>>>> We've currently received sponsorship for about half the development
>>>>> costs ($26,000 out of about $50,000) and require another $24,000 to
>>>>> reach our goal and release it under an open source license. This
>>>>> means
>>>>> that we can get there with just eight user-contributors with
>>>>> $3,000 each
>>>>> or, alternatively, a hundred contributors of under $250 each.
>>>>>
>>>>> -Si Chen
>>>>> -David E. Jones
>>>>>
>>>>> P.S. Special thanks to all who have contributed labor and funds to
>>>>> this
>>>>> effort, including: Open Source Strategies, Undersun Consulting, Ant
>>>>> Websystems, Masterfile Corp, and others.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Users mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> James A Barrows
>>
>
>
>

[Scott Gray]

Hi Jacopo

Feel free to add me to the list, I'm no accountant (not even close!) but can
certainly help with implementing new screens and the like.

Regards
Scott

On 23/11/2007, Jacopo Cappellato <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Hi Jim, (and others interested in helping with the implementation of the
> accounting component)
>
> can I add you to the list of "people interested" in this page:
>
> http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBADMIN/New+Features+Roadmap+-+Draft
>
> ?
>
> If you (or others in this list) are willing to help with the
> implementation I will do my best to help to organize the work in the
> community (and also implement something).
>
> The main question to the ones interested are:
>
> - are there specific tasks you would like to work on?
> - if not, we can help to assign/distribute tasks, but it would be useful
> to know what is your area of expertise: tech (Java, minilang,
> screen/form widgets, etc...) or business (OFBiz data model, existing
> services, general AR/AP...)
>
> I've recently (yesterday and the day before it) I've cleaned up some
> stuff in the accounting component (and implemented some new screens) and
> now I have a clearer view of what is already available and what needs to
> be done: now I'm sure that we can relatively quickly implement some good
> stuff here with your help, so guys don't be shy!!!
>
> Jacopo
>
>
>
> Jim Barrows wrote:
> > Ok, so we still want to build this.. only better :)
> >
> > On Nov 20, 2007 5:12 PM, David E Jones <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> That is very old, and a lot has changed since then, including what
> >> happened to this code base. All of the lower level stuff including the
> >> data structures and GL posting services are part of OFBiz, but the
> >> higher level things such as reports and automated posting mapping
> >> services (from things like invoices, payments, inventory changes, etc)
> >> are all part of the HPL licensed financials component from Open Source
> >> Strategies, part of the opentaps distribution (semi-fork these days,
> >> lots of stuff implemented that doesn't go back into OFBiz).
> >>
> >> For more information you should see their site at
> >> opensourcestrategies.com. The HPL (Honest Public License) is a not an
> >> OSI approved license and has some rather unpleasant terms in it, the
> >> goal being to force contributions or purchase of a commercial license
> >> (just like pretty much all "open source" companies that dual license,
> >> usually with GPL though). The main thing with HPL is that if you make
> >> it available over the internet it explicitly states that this is
> >> public distribution of the software (for  more details see the license
> >> itself).
> >>
> >> In any case, that is why you're seeing discussion of implementing
> >> these things even though there is an OFBiz add-on that has them, and
> >> hence all of the references to another project that is licensed in
> >> terms that make it hard to build a community around, and that can't be
> >> included with OFBiz, etc.
> >>
> >> -David
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Nov 20, 2007, at 4:54 PM, Jim Barrows wrote:
> >>
> >>> So what is the status?  Do we have to pay for it?  Is it done?  i
> >>> would think that in 2 years it would've gotten done by now.
> >>>
> >>> On Nov 20, 2007 4:48 PM, BJ Freeman <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>>> Here is and update from couple of years ago.
> >>>> previously there was discussion about the frame work of this.
> >>>> if I did all these out, is there a place on the documentation site we
> >>>> can put them to save a lot of re discussion.
> >>>>
> >>>> David E. Jones sent the following on 9/23/2005 4:16 PM:
> >>>>> Update: Accounting/GL Now in Beta Testing
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The Open For Business Accounting and General Ledger (GL)
> >>>>> application is
> >>>>> now moving into beta testing. Currently, it can  support the
> >>>>> accounting
> >>>>> needs of most product-retail businesses that use Open For Business,
> >>>>> including:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>   * Support for multiple organizations and multiple currencies
> >>>>>   * Setting up chart of accounts with unlimited depth
> >>>>>   * General Ledger posting for most key business processes
> >>>>>   * Financial reports including trial balance, income statements,
> >>>>> and
> >>>>>     balance sheets
> >>>>>   * Screens to create and manage both Accounts Receivable (AR) and
> >>>>>     Accounts Payable (AP) invoices and payments
> >>>>>   * Screens for managing tax liabilities across multiple
> >>>>> jurisdictions
> >>>>>   * Administrative features such as periodic closings
> >>>>>   * Flexible entry and maintenance of payments and invoice
> >>>>> (including
> >>>>>     application payments to invoices, etc)
> >>>>>   * Export to outside accounting applications (QBXML for
> >>>>> QuickBooks is
> >>>>>     included)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> This application is fully integrated with the rest of OFBiz,
> >>>>> including
> >>>>> ecommerce, Point Of Sales, order manager, and facilities
> >>>>> manager.  It
> >>>>> drops into your hot-deploy/ directory and runs right  away.  If
> >>>>> you need
> >>>>> other accounting-related features, such as  payroll, it is fairly
> >>>>> easy
> >>>>> to develop a plug in for it.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If you would like to learn more about the GL application, there is a
> >>>>> video from the St. Louis Users' Conference
> >>>>> (http://www.ofbiz.org/VideosConf.html) and an online demo
> >>>>> (http://www.opensourcestrategies.com/ofbiz/demos.php).
> >>>>>
> >>>>> How to Make it Open Source
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The Accounting and General Ledger is developed under a community
> >>>>> funding
> >>>>> model. The idea is to get community funding to help cover the cost
> >>>>> of
> >>>>> developing a large, complex application. We think this is a very
> >>>>> fair
> >>>>> user-driven model because it can produce open source software with
> >>>>> either a large number of small contributors or a small number of
> >>>>> larger
> >>>>> contributors. As an added incentive, those who contribute over
> >>>>> $3,000
> >>>>> can begin to use the application immediately and benefit from all
> >>>>> its
> >>>>> features for a fraction of the cost of in-house development.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> We've currently received sponsorship for about half the development
> >>>>> costs ($26,000 out of about $50,000) and require another $24,000 to
> >>>>> reach our goal and release it under an open source license. This
> >>>>> means
> >>>>> that we can get there with just eight user-contributors with
> >>>>> $3,000 each
> >>>>> or, alternatively, a hundred contributors of under $250 each.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -Si Chen
> >>>>> -David E. Jones
> >>>>>
> >>>>> P.S. Special thanks to all who have contributed labor and funds to
> >>>>> this
> >>>>> effort, including: Open Source Strategies, Undersun Consulting, Ant
> >>>>> Websystems, Masterfile Corp, and others.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> Users mailing list
> >>>>> [hidden email]
> >>>>> http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> James A Barrows
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>

[Jim Barrows]

Sure, you can add me to the list.  I'm a java developer in my day job.
 I'm learning the rest of OFBIZ.  I'm also a team player, I can work
on whatever we need to to get the job done.
I had planned with starting on the most glaring omissions, the Income
and balance sheet.  But I haven't actually slung any code for it.

On Nov 22, 2007 11:38 PM, Jacopo Cappellato <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Jim, (and others interested in helping with the implementation of the
> accounting component)
>
> can I add you to the list of "people interested" in this page:
>
> http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBADMIN/New+Features+Roadmap+-+Draft
>
> ?
>
> If you (or others in this list) are willing to help with the
> implementation I will do my best to help to organize the work in the
> community (and also implement something).
>
> The main question to the ones interested are:
>
> - are there specific tasks you would like to work on?
> - if not, we can help to assign/distribute tasks, but it would be useful
> to know what is your area of expertise: tech (Java, minilang,
> screen/form widgets, etc...) or business (OFBiz data model, existing
> services, general AR/AP...)
>
> I've recently (yesterday and the day before it) I've cleaned up some
> stuff in the accounting component (and implemented some new screens) and
> now I have a clearer view of what is already available and what needs to
> be done: now I'm sure that we can relatively quickly implement some good
> stuff here with your help, so guys don't be shy!!!
>
> Jacopo
>
>
>
>
> Jim Barrows wrote:
> > Ok, so we still want to build this.. only better :)
> >
> > On Nov 20, 2007 5:12 PM, David E Jones <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> That is very old, and a lot has changed since then, including what
> >> happened to this code base. All of the lower level stuff including the
> >> data structures and GL posting services are part of OFBiz, but the
> >> higher level things such as reports and automated posting mapping
> >> services (from things like invoices, payments, inventory changes, etc)
> >> are all part of the HPL licensed financials component from Open Source
> >> Strategies, part of the opentaps distribution (semi-fork these days,
> >> lots of stuff implemented that doesn't go back into OFBiz).
> >>
> >> For more information you should see their site at
> >> opensourcestrategies.com. The HPL (Honest Public License) is a not an
> >> OSI approved license and has some rather unpleasant terms in it, the
> >> goal being to force contributions or purchase of a commercial license
> >> (just like pretty much all "open source" companies that dual license,
> >> usually with GPL though). The main thing with HPL is that if you make
> >> it available over the internet it explicitly states that this is
> >> public distribution of the software (for  more details see the license
> >> itself).
> >>
> >> In any case, that is why you're seeing discussion of implementing
> >> these things even though there is an OFBiz add-on that has them, and
> >> hence all of the references to another project that is licensed in
> >> terms that make it hard to build a community around, and that can't be
> >> included with OFBiz, etc.
> >>
> >> -David
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Nov 20, 2007, at 4:54 PM, Jim Barrows wrote:
> >>
> >>> So what is the status?  Do we have to pay for it?  Is it done?  i
> >>> would think that in 2 years it would've gotten done by now.
> >>>
> >>> On Nov 20, 2007 4:48 PM, BJ Freeman <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>>> Here is and update from couple of years ago.
> >>>> previously there was discussion about the frame work of this.
> >>>> if I did all these out, is there a place on the documentation site we
> >>>> can put them to save a lot of re discussion.
> >>>>
> >>>> David E. Jones sent the following on 9/23/2005 4:16 PM:
> >>>>> Update: Accounting/GL Now in Beta Testing
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The Open For Business Accounting and General Ledger (GL)
> >>>>> application is
> >>>>> now moving into beta testing. Currently, it can  support the
> >>>>> accounting
> >>>>> needs of most product-retail businesses that use Open For Business,
> >>>>> including:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>   * Support for multiple organizations and multiple currencies
> >>>>>   * Setting up chart of accounts with unlimited depth
> >>>>>   * General Ledger posting for most key business processes
> >>>>>   * Financial reports including trial balance, income statements,
> >>>>> and
> >>>>>     balance sheets
> >>>>>   * Screens to create and manage both Accounts Receivable (AR) and
> >>>>>     Accounts Payable (AP) invoices and payments
> >>>>>   * Screens for managing tax liabilities across multiple
> >>>>> jurisdictions
> >>>>>   * Administrative features such as periodic closings
> >>>>>   * Flexible entry and maintenance of payments and invoice
> >>>>> (including
> >>>>>     application payments to invoices, etc)
> >>>>>   * Export to outside accounting applications (QBXML for
> >>>>> QuickBooks is
> >>>>>     included)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> This application is fully integrated with the rest of OFBiz,
> >>>>> including
> >>>>> ecommerce, Point Of Sales, order manager, and facilities
> >>>>> manager.  It
> >>>>> drops into your hot-deploy/ directory and runs right  away.  If
> >>>>> you need
> >>>>> other accounting-related features, such as  payroll, it is fairly
> >>>>> easy
> >>>>> to develop a plug in for it.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If you would like to learn more about the GL application, there is a
> >>>>> video from the St. Louis Users' Conference
> >>>>> (http://www.ofbiz.org/VideosConf.html) and an online demo
> >>>>> (http://www.opensourcestrategies.com/ofbiz/demos.php).
> >>>>>
> >>>>> How to Make it Open Source
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The Accounting and General Ledger is developed under a community
> >>>>> funding
> >>>>> model. The idea is to get community funding to help cover the cost
> >>>>> of
> >>>>> developing a large, complex application. We think this is a very
> >>>>> fair
> >>>>> user-driven model because it can produce open source software with
> >>>>> either a large number of small contributors or a small number of
> >>>>> larger
> >>>>> contributors. As an added incentive, those who contribute over
> >>>>> $3,000
> >>>>> can begin to use the application immediately and benefit from all
> >>>>> its
> >>>>> features for a fraction of the cost of in-house development.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> We've currently received sponsorship for about half the development
> >>>>> costs ($26,000 out of about $50,000) and require another $24,000 to
> >>>>> reach our goal and release it under an open source license. This
> >>>>> means
> >>>>> that we can get there with just eight user-contributors with
> >>>>> $3,000 each
> >>>>> or, alternatively, a hundred contributors of under $250 each.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -Si Chen
> >>>>> -David E. Jones
> >>>>>
> >>>>> P.S. Special thanks to all who have contributed labor and funds to
> >>>>> this
> >>>>> effort, including: Open Source Strategies, Undersun Consulting, Ant
> >>>>> Websystems, Masterfile Corp, and others.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> Users mailing list
> >>>>> [hidden email]
> >>>>> http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> James A Barrows
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>

--
James A Barrows

[Vince Clark]

I'm glad to see renewed energy in the Accounting functionality. I have one request and will contribute related knowledge whenever possible.

Please consider multi-dimensional accounting in the design. The concept of "Internal Org" is a good start, although I am not sure that it's model could be extended for use with additional accounting dimensions.

Here is what I can tell from the data model about how Internal Org appears to be used in postings:
AcctgTrans contains a header record of the posting.
AcctgTransEntry contains the debits and credits, and also stores the "organizationPartyId." So GL reporting by org can be done.

To perform multidimensional accounting we must be able to track other dimensions at the debit and credit level (AcctgTransEntry.) This also suggests that the information be derived from sources higher up the stack, like an Invoice.

Other systems I have worked on that have this capability store additional columns at the DR/CR level which implies that the number of available dimensions is fixed, not dynamic. This is usually OK. I haven't seen a company go beyond eight dimensions. But this approach definitely limits flexiibility.

I have had conversations with others in the community on this topic. Some have suggested that we can derive the reporting from the source documents (Invoices, GL Journal, etc.) and do not need to carry lots of dimensions all the way to posting. But it sure makes reporting easier if we do. There are probably other compelling accounting reasons for storing the dimension with the posting but I'm no accountant.

Vince Clark
Global Era
The Freedom of Open Source
[hidden email]
[phone]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Barrows" <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Friday, November 23, 2007 10:37:43 AM (GMT-0700) America/Denver
Subject: Re: [OFBiz] Users - Accounting Extension (GL, etc) Now In Beta

Sure, you can add me to the list. I'm a java developer in my day job.
I'm learning the rest of OFBIZ. I'm also a team player, I can work
on whatever we need to to get the job done.
I had planned with starting on the most glaring omissions, the Income
and balance sheet. But I haven't actually slung any code for it.

On Nov 22, 2007 11:38 PM, Jacopo Cappellato <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Jim, (and others interested in helping with the implementation of the
> accounting component)
>
> can I add you to the list of "people interested" in this page:
>
> http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBADMIN/New+Features+Roadmap+-+Draft 
>
> ?
>
> If you (or others in this list) are willing to help with the
> implementation I will do my best to help to organize the work in the
> community (and also implement something).
>
> The main question to the ones interested are:
>
> - are there specific tasks you would like to work on?
> - if not, we can help to assign/distribute tasks, but it would be useful
> to know what is your area of expertise: tech (Java, minilang,
> screen/form widgets, etc...) or business (OFBiz data model, existing
> services, general AR/AP...)
>
> I've recently (yesterday and the day before it) I've cleaned up some
> stuff in the accounting component (and implemented some new screens) and
> now I have a clearer view of what is already available and what needs to
> be done: now I'm sure that we can relatively quickly implement some good
> stuff here with your help, so guys don't be shy!!!
>
> Jacopo
>
>
>
>
> Jim Barrows wrote:
> > Ok, so we still want to build this.. only better :)
> >
> > On Nov 20, 2007 5:12 PM, David E Jones <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> That is very old, and a lot has changed since then, including what
> >> happened to this code base. All of the lower level stuff including the
> >> data structures and GL posting services are part of OFBiz, but the
> >> higher level things such as reports and automated posting mapping
> >> services (from things like invoices, payments, inventory changes, etc)
> >> are all part of the HPL licensed financials component from Open Source
> >> Strategies, part of the opentaps distribution (semi-fork these days,
> >> lots of stuff implemented that doesn't go back into OFBiz).
> >>
> >> For more information you should see their site at
> >> opensourcestrategies.com. The HPL (Honest Public License) is a not an
> >> OSI approved license and has some rather unpleasant terms in it, the
> >> goal being to force contributions or purchase of a commercial license
> >> (just like pretty much all "open source" companies that dual license,
> >> usually with GPL though). The main thing with HPL is that if you make
> >> it available over the internet it explicitly states that this is
> >> public distribution of the software (for more details see the license
> >> itself).
> >>
> >> In any case, that is why you're seeing discussion of implementing
> >> these things even though there is an OFBiz add-on that has them, and
> >> hence all of the references to another project that is licensed in
> >> terms that make it hard to build a community around, and that can't be
> >> included with OFBiz, etc.
> >>
> >> -David
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Nov 20, 2007, at 4:54 PM, Jim Barrows wrote:
> >>
> >>> So what is the status? Do we have to pay for it? Is it done? i
> >>> would think that in 2 years it would've gotten done by now.
> >>>
> >>> On Nov 20, 2007 4:48 PM, BJ Freeman <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>>> Here is and update from couple of years ago.
> >>>> previously there was discussion about the frame work of this.
> >>>> if I did all these out, is there a place on the documentation site we
> >>>> can put them to save a lot of re discussion.
> >>>>
> >>>> David E. Jones sent the following on 9/23/2005 4:16 PM:
> >>>>> Update: Accounting/GL Now in Beta Testing
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The Open For Business Accounting and General Ledger (GL)
> >>>>> application is
> >>>>> now moving into beta testing. Currently, it can support the
> >>>>> accounting
> >>>>> needs of most product-retail businesses that use Open For Business,
> >>>>> including:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> * Support for multiple organizations and multiple currencies
> >>>>> * Setting up chart of accounts with unlimited depth
> >>>>> * General Ledger posting for most key business processes
> >>>>> * Financial reports including trial balance, income statements,
> >>>>> and
> >>>>> balance sheets
> >>>>> * Screens to create and manage both Accounts Receivable (AR) and
> >>>>> Accounts Payable (AP) invoices and payments
> >>>>> * Screens for managing tax liabilities across multiple
> >>>>> jurisdictions
> >>>>> * Administrative features such as periodic closings
> >>>>> * Flexible entry and maintenance of payments and invoice
> >>>>> (including
> >>>>> application payments to invoices, etc)
> >>>>> * Export to outside accounting applications (QBXML for
> >>>>> QuickBooks is
> >>>>> included)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> This application is fully integrated with the rest of OFBiz,
> >>>>> including
> >>>>> ecommerce, Point Of Sales, order manager, and facilities
> >>>>> manager. It
> >>>>> drops into your hot-deploy/ directory and runs right away. If
> >>>>> you need
> >>>>> other accounting-related features, such as payroll, it is fairly
> >>>>> easy
> >>>>> to develop a plug in for it.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If you would like to learn more about the GL application, there is a
> >>>>> video from the St. Louis Users' Conference
> >>>>> (http://www.ofbiz.org/VideosConf.html) and an online demo
> >>>>> (http://www.opensourcestrategies.com/ofbiz/demos.php).
> >>>>>
> >>>>> How to Make it Open Source
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The Accounting and General Ledger is developed under a community
> >>>>> funding
> >>>>> model. The idea is to get community funding to help cover the cost
> >>>>> of
> >>>>> developing a large, complex application. We think this is a very
> >>>>> fair
> >>>>> user-driven model because it can produce open source software with
> >>>>> either a large number of small contributors or a small number of
> >>>>> larger
> >>>>> contributors. As an added incentive, those who contribute over
> >>>>> $3,000
> >>>>> can begin to use the application immediately and benefit from all
> >>>>> its
> >>>>> features for a fraction of the cost of in-house development.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> We've currently received sponsorship for about half the development
> >>>>> costs ($26,000 out of about $50,000) and require another $24,000 to
> >>>>> reach our goal and release it under an open source license. This
> >>>>> means
> >>>>> that we can get there with just eight user-contributors with
> >>>>> $3,000 each
> >>>>> or, alternatively, a hundred contributors of under $250 each.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -Si Chen
> >>>>> -David E. Jones
> >>>>>
> >>>>> P.S. Special thanks to all who have contributed labor and funds to
> >>>>> this
> >>>>> effort, including: Open Source Strategies, Undersun Consulting, Ant
> >>>>> Websystems, Masterfile Corp, and others.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> Users mailing list
> >>>>> [hidden email]
> >>>>> http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users 
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> James A Barrows
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>

--
James A Barrows

[David E Jones]

There are many dimensions, unlimited really, possible with the ofbiz  
data model, especially since it is easy to extend.

As for using the data... reducing redundancy in the operational/
transactional data store is important. If you need a better model for  
reporting purposes check out the BI component that Jacopo has been  
working on. This is really the point of OLAP (analytical) data stores.  
In OFBiz we just use a relational database for both, but the  
analytical data store uses a star schema to make dimensional reporting  
easier (and WAY faster! especially when it is on a different physical  
machine and is not competing with the operational data store for  
resources).

-David


On Nov 23, 2007, at 11:13 AM, Vince M. Clark wrote:

> I'm glad to see renewed energy in the Accounting functionality. I  
> have one request and will contribute related knowledge whenever  
> possible.
>
> Please consider multi-dimensional accounting in the design. The  
> concept of "Internal Org" is a good start, although I am not sure  
> that it's model could be extended for use with additional accounting  
> dimensions.
>
> Here is what I can tell from the data model about how Internal Org  
> appears to be used in postings:
> AcctgTrans contains a header record of the posting.
> AcctgTransEntry contains the debits and credits, and also stores the  
> "organizationPartyId." So GL reporting by org can be done.
>
> To perform multidimensional accounting we must be able to track  
> other dimensions at the debit and credit level (AcctgTransEntry.)  
> This also suggests that the information be derived from sources  
> higher up the stack, like an Invoice.
>
> Other systems I have worked on that have this capability store  
> additional columns at the DR/CR level which implies that the number  
> of available dimensions is fixed, not dynamic. This is usually OK. I  
> haven't seen a company go beyond eight dimensions. But this approach  
> definitely limits flexiibility.
>
> I have had conversations with others in the community on this topic.  
> Some have suggested that we can derive the reporting from the source  
> documents (Invoices, GL Journal, etc.) and do not need to carry lots  
> of dimensions all the way to posting. But it sure makes reporting  
> easier if we do. There are probably other compelling accounting  
> reasons for storing the dimension with the posting but I'm no  
> accountant.
>
> Vince Clark
> Global Era
> The Freedom of Open Source
> [hidden email]
> [phone]
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Barrows" <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Sent: Friday, November 23, 2007 10:37:43 AM (GMT-0700) America/Denver
> Subject: Re: [OFBiz] Users - Accounting Extension (GL, etc) Now In  
> Beta
>
> Sure, you can add me to the list. I'm a java developer in my day job.
> I'm learning the rest of OFBIZ. I'm also a team player, I can work
> on whatever we need to to get the job done.
> I had planned with starting on the most glaring omissions, the Income
> and balance sheet. But I haven't actually slung any code for it.
>
> On Nov 22, 2007 11:38 PM, Jacopo Cappellato <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Hi Jim, (and others interested in helping with the implementation  
>> of the
>> accounting component)
>>
>> can I add you to the list of "people interested" in this page:
>>
>> http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBADMIN/New+Features+Roadmap+-+Draft
>>
>> ?
>>
>> If you (or others in this list) are willing to help with the
>> implementation I will do my best to help to organize the work in the
>> community (and also implement something).
>>
>> The main question to the ones interested are:
>>
>> - are there specific tasks you would like to work on?
>> - if not, we can help to assign/distribute tasks, but it would be  
>> useful
>> to know what is your area of expertise: tech (Java, minilang,
>> screen/form widgets, etc...) or business (OFBiz data model, existing
>> services, general AR/AP...)
>>
>> I've recently (yesterday and the day before it) I've cleaned up some
>> stuff in the accounting component (and implemented some new  
>> screens) and
>> now I have a clearer view of what is already available and what  
>> needs to
>> be done: now I'm sure that we can relatively quickly implement some  
>> good
>> stuff here with your help, so guys don't be shy!!!
>>
>> Jacopo
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Jim Barrows wrote:
>>> Ok, so we still want to build this.. only better :)
>>>
>>> On Nov 20, 2007 5:12 PM, David E Jones <[hidden email]>  
>>> wrote:
>>>> That is very old, and a lot has changed since then, including what
>>>> happened to this code base. All of the lower level stuff  
>>>> including the
>>>> data structures and GL posting services are part of OFBiz, but the
>>>> higher level things such as reports and automated posting mapping
>>>> services (from things like invoices, payments, inventory changes,  
>>>> etc)
>>>> are all part of the HPL licensed financials component from Open  
>>>> Source
>>>> Strategies, part of the opentaps distribution (semi-fork these  
>>>> days,
>>>> lots of stuff implemented that doesn't go back into OFBiz).
>>>>
>>>> For more information you should see their site at
>>>> opensourcestrategies.com. The HPL (Honest Public License) is a  
>>>> not an
>>>> OSI approved license and has some rather unpleasant terms in it,  
>>>> the
>>>> goal being to force contributions or purchase of a commercial  
>>>> license
>>>> (just like pretty much all "open source" companies that dual  
>>>> license,
>>>> usually with GPL though). The main thing with HPL is that if you  
>>>> make
>>>> it available over the internet it explicitly states that this is
>>>> public distribution of the software (for more details see the  
>>>> license
>>>> itself).
>>>>
>>>> In any case, that is why you're seeing discussion of implementing
>>>> these things even though there is an OFBiz add-on that has them,  
>>>> and
>>>> hence all of the references to another project that is licensed in
>>>> terms that make it hard to build a community around, and that  
>>>> can't be
>>>> included with OFBiz, etc.
>>>>
>>>> -David
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Nov 20, 2007, at 4:54 PM, Jim Barrows wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> So what is the status? Do we have to pay for it? Is it done? i
>>>>> would think that in 2 years it would've gotten done by now.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Nov 20, 2007 4:48 PM, BJ Freeman <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>> Here is and update from couple of years ago.
>>>>>> previously there was discussion about the frame work of this.
>>>>>> if I did all these out, is there a place on the documentation  
>>>>>> site we
>>>>>> can put them to save a lot of re discussion.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> David E. Jones sent the following on 9/23/2005 4:16 PM:
>>>>>>> Update: Accounting/GL Now in Beta Testing
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Open For Business Accounting and General Ledger (GL)
>>>>>>> application is
>>>>>>> now moving into beta testing. Currently, it can support the
>>>>>>> accounting
>>>>>>> needs of most product-retail businesses that use Open For  
>>>>>>> Business,
>>>>>>> including:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> * Support for multiple organizations and multiple currencies
>>>>>>> * Setting up chart of accounts with unlimited depth
>>>>>>> * General Ledger posting for most key business processes
>>>>>>> * Financial reports including trial balance, income statements,
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> balance sheets
>>>>>>> * Screens to create and manage both Accounts Receivable (AR) and
>>>>>>> Accounts Payable (AP) invoices and payments
>>>>>>> * Screens for managing tax liabilities across multiple
>>>>>>> jurisdictions
>>>>>>> * Administrative features such as periodic closings
>>>>>>> * Flexible entry and maintenance of payments and invoice
>>>>>>> (including
>>>>>>> application payments to invoices, etc)
>>>>>>> * Export to outside accounting applications (QBXML for
>>>>>>> QuickBooks is
>>>>>>> included)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This application is fully integrated with the rest of OFBiz,
>>>>>>> including
>>>>>>> ecommerce, Point Of Sales, order manager, and facilities
>>>>>>> manager. It
>>>>>>> drops into your hot-deploy/ directory and runs right away. If
>>>>>>> you need
>>>>>>> other accounting-related features, such as payroll, it is fairly
>>>>>>> easy
>>>>>>> to develop a plug in for it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you would like to learn more about the GL application,  
>>>>>>> there is a
>>>>>>> video from the St. Louis Users' Conference
>>>>>>> (http://www.ofbiz.org/VideosConf.html) and an online demo
>>>>>>> (http://www.opensourcestrategies.com/ofbiz/demos.php).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> How to Make it Open Source
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Accounting and General Ledger is developed under a community
>>>>>>> funding
>>>>>>> model. The idea is to get community funding to help cover the  
>>>>>>> cost
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> developing a large, complex application. We think this is a very
>>>>>>> fair
>>>>>>> user-driven model because it can produce open source software  
>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>> either a large number of small contributors or a small number of
>>>>>>> larger
>>>>>>> contributors. As an added incentive, those who contribute over
>>>>>>> $3,000
>>>>>>> can begin to use the application immediately and benefit from  
>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>> its
>>>>>>> features for a fraction of the cost of in-house development.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We've currently received sponsorship for about half the  
>>>>>>> development
>>>>>>> costs ($26,000 out of about $50,000) and require another  
>>>>>>> $24,000 to
>>>>>>> reach our goal and release it under an open source license. This
>>>>>>> means
>>>>>>> that we can get there with just eight user-contributors with
>>>>>>> $3,000 each
>>>>>>> or, alternatively, a hundred contributors of under $250 each.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Si Chen
>>>>>>> -David E. Jones
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> P.S. Special thanks to all who have contributed labor and  
>>>>>>> funds to
>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>> effort, including: Open Source Strategies, Undersun  
>>>>>>> Consulting, Ant
>>>>>>> Websystems, Masterfile Corp, and others.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Users mailing list
>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>> http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> James A Barrows
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> James A Barrows

[Jim Barrows]

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by multi-dimensional accounting.
Are you talking about a facility like QB's classes?  only with
multiple classes per account?  Or just being able to have one GL entry
be tracked back to one or more business transactions(invoice being
paid etc).

On Nov 23, 2007 11:13 AM, Vince M. Clark <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I'm glad to see renewed energy in the Accounting functionality. I have one request and will contribute related knowledge whenever possible.
>
> Please consider multi-dimensional accounting in the design. The concept of "Internal Org" is a good start, although I am not sure that it's model could be extended for use with additional accounting dimensions.
>
> Here is what I can tell from the data model about how Internal Org appears to be used in postings:
> AcctgTrans contains a header record of the posting.
> AcctgTransEntry contains the debits and credits, and also stores the "organizationPartyId." So GL reporting by org can be done.
>
> To perform multidimensional accounting we must be able to track other dimensions at the debit and credit level (AcctgTransEntry.) This also suggests that the information be derived from sources higher up the stack, like an Invoice.
>
> Other systems I have worked on that have this capability store additional columns at the DR/CR level which implies that the number of available dimensions is fixed, not dynamic. This is usually OK. I haven't seen a company go beyond eight dimensions. But this approach definitely limits flexiibility.
>
> I have had conversations with others in the community on this topic. Some have suggested that we can derive the reporting from the source documents (Invoices, GL Journal, etc.) and do not need to carry lots of dimensions all the way to posting. But it sure makes reporting easier if we do. There are probably other compelling accounting reasons for storing the dimension with the posting but I'm no accountant.
>
> Vince Clark
> Global Era
> The Freedom of Open Source
> [hidden email]
> [phone]
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Barrows" <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Sent: Friday, November 23, 2007 10:37:43 AM (GMT-0700) America/Denver
> Subject: Re: [OFBiz] Users - Accounting Extension (GL, etc) Now In Beta
>
>
> Sure, you can add me to the list. I'm a java developer in my day job.
> I'm learning the rest of OFBIZ. I'm also a team player, I can work
> on whatever we need to to get the job done.
> I had planned with starting on the most glaring omissions, the Income
> and balance sheet. But I haven't actually slung any code for it.
>
> On Nov 22, 2007 11:38 PM, Jacopo Cappellato <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Hi Jim, (and others interested in helping with the implementation of the
> > accounting component)
> >
> > can I add you to the list of "people interested" in this page:
> >
> > http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBADMIN/New+Features+Roadmap+-+Draft
> >
> > ?
> >
> > If you (or others in this list) are willing to help with the
> > implementation I will do my best to help to organize the work in the
> > community (and also implement something).
> >
> > The main question to the ones interested are:
> >
> > - are there specific tasks you would like to work on?
> > - if not, we can help to assign/distribute tasks, but it would be useful
> > to know what is your area of expertise: tech (Java, minilang,
> > screen/form widgets, etc...) or business (OFBiz data model, existing
> > services, general AR/AP...)
> >
> > I've recently (yesterday and the day before it) I've cleaned up some
> > stuff in the accounting component (and implemented some new screens) and
> > now I have a clearer view of what is already available and what needs to
> > be done: now I'm sure that we can relatively quickly implement some good
> > stuff here with your help, so guys don't be shy!!!
> >
> > Jacopo
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Jim Barrows wrote:
> > > Ok, so we still want to build this.. only better :)
> > >
> > > On Nov 20, 2007 5:12 PM, David E Jones <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >> That is very old, and a lot has changed since then, including what
> > >> happened to this code base. All of the lower level stuff including the
> > >> data structures and GL posting services are part of OFBiz, but the
> > >> higher level things such as reports and automated posting mapping
> > >> services (from things like invoices, payments, inventory changes, etc)
> > >> are all part of the HPL licensed financials component from Open Source
> > >> Strategies, part of the opentaps distribution (semi-fork these days,
> > >> lots of stuff implemented that doesn't go back into OFBiz).
> > >>
> > >> For more information you should see their site at
> > >> opensourcestrategies.com. The HPL (Honest Public License) is a not an
> > >> OSI approved license and has some rather unpleasant terms in it, the
> > >> goal being to force contributions or purchase of a commercial license
> > >> (just like pretty much all "open source" companies that dual license,
> > >> usually with GPL though). The main thing with HPL is that if you make
> > >> it available over the internet it explicitly states that this is
> > >> public distribution of the software (for more details see the license
> > >> itself).
> > >>
> > >> In any case, that is why you're seeing discussion of implementing
> > >> these things even though there is an OFBiz add-on that has them, and
> > >> hence all of the references to another project that is licensed in
> > >> terms that make it hard to build a community around, and that can't be
> > >> included with OFBiz, etc.
> > >>
> > >> -David
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Nov 20, 2007, at 4:54 PM, Jim Barrows wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> So what is the status? Do we have to pay for it? Is it done? i
> > >>> would think that in 2 years it would've gotten done by now.
> > >>>
> > >>> On Nov 20, 2007 4:48 PM, BJ Freeman <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >>>> Here is and update from couple of years ago.
> > >>>> previously there was discussion about the frame work of this.
> > >>>> if I did all these out, is there a place on the documentation site we
> > >>>> can put them to save a lot of re discussion.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> David E. Jones sent the following on 9/23/2005 4:16 PM:
> > >>>>> Update: Accounting/GL Now in Beta Testing
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> The Open For Business Accounting and General Ledger (GL)
> > >>>>> application is
> > >>>>> now moving into beta testing. Currently, it can support the
> > >>>>> accounting
> > >>>>> needs of most product-retail businesses that use Open For Business,
> > >>>>> including:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> * Support for multiple organizations and multiple currencies
> > >>>>> * Setting up chart of accounts with unlimited depth
> > >>>>> * General Ledger posting for most key business processes
> > >>>>> * Financial reports including trial balance, income statements,
> > >>>>> and
> > >>>>> balance sheets
> > >>>>> * Screens to create and manage both Accounts Receivable (AR) and
> > >>>>> Accounts Payable (AP) invoices and payments
> > >>>>> * Screens for managing tax liabilities across multiple
> > >>>>> jurisdictions
> > >>>>> * Administrative features such as periodic closings
> > >>>>> * Flexible entry and maintenance of payments and invoice
> > >>>>> (including
> > >>>>> application payments to invoices, etc)
> > >>>>> * Export to outside accounting applications (QBXML for
> > >>>>> QuickBooks is
> > >>>>> included)
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> This application is fully integrated with the rest of OFBiz,
> > >>>>> including
> > >>>>> ecommerce, Point Of Sales, order manager, and facilities
> > >>>>> manager. It
> > >>>>> drops into your hot-deploy/ directory and runs right away. If
> > >>>>> you need
> > >>>>> other accounting-related features, such as payroll, it is fairly
> > >>>>> easy
> > >>>>> to develop a plug in for it.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> If you would like to learn more about the GL application, there is a
> > >>>>> video from the St. Louis Users' Conference
> > >>>>> (http://www.ofbiz.org/VideosConf.html) and an online demo
> > >>>>> (http://www.opensourcestrategies.com/ofbiz/demos.php).
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> How to Make it Open Source
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> The Accounting and General Ledger is developed under a community
> > >>>>> funding
> > >>>>> model. The idea is to get community funding to help cover the cost
> > >>>>> of
> > >>>>> developing a large, complex application. We think this is a very
> > >>>>> fair
> > >>>>> user-driven model because it can produce open source software with
> > >>>>> either a large number of small contributors or a small number of
> > >>>>> larger
> > >>>>> contributors. As an added incentive, those who contribute over
> > >>>>> $3,000
> > >>>>> can begin to use the application immediately and benefit from all
> > >>>>> its
> > >>>>> features for a fraction of the cost of in-house development.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> We've currently received sponsorship for about half the development
> > >>>>> costs ($26,000 out of about $50,000) and require another $24,000 to
> > >>>>> reach our goal and release it under an open source license. This
> > >>>>> means
> > >>>>> that we can get there with just eight user-contributors with
> > >>>>> $3,000 each
> > >>>>> or, alternatively, a hundred contributors of under $250 each.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> -Si Chen
> > >>>>> -David E. Jones
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> P.S. Special thanks to all who have contributed labor and funds to
> > >>>>> this
> > >>>>> effort, including: Open Source Strategies, Undersun Consulting, Ant
> > >>>>> Websystems, Masterfile Corp, and others.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> _______________________________________________
> > >>>>> Users mailing list
> > >>>>> [hidden email]
> > >>>>> http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> --
> > >>> James A Barrows
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> James A Barrows
>

--
James A Barrows

[Vince Clark]

I'm not very familiar with QB's but yes, "classes" sounds like a similar concept.

Basically we just need to report on many "classes" or "dimensions" of transactions. Things like cost center, department, and activity are common dimensions.

Vince Clark
Global Era
The Freedom of Open Source
[hidden email]
[phone]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Barrows" <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Friday, November 23, 2007 12:37:13 PM (GMT-0700) America/Denver
Subject: Re: [OFBiz] Users - Accounting Extension (GL, etc) Now In Beta

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by multi-dimensional accounting.
Are you talking about a facility like QB's classes? only with
multiple classes per account? Or just being able to have one GL entry
be tracked back to one or more business transactions(invoice being
paid etc).

On Nov 23, 2007 11:13 AM, Vince M. Clark <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I'm glad to see renewed energy in the Accounting functionality. I have one request and will contribute related knowledge whenever possible.
>
> Please consider multi-dimensional accounting in the design. The concept of "Internal Org" is a good start, although I am not sure that it's model could be extended for use with additional accounting dimensions.
>
> Here is what I can tell from the data model about how Internal Org appears to be used in postings:
> AcctgTrans contains a header record of the posting.
> AcctgTransEntry contains the debits and credits, and also stores the "organizationPartyId." So GL reporting by org can be done.
>
> To perform multidimensional accounting we must be able to track other dimensions at the debit and credit level (AcctgTransEntry.) This also suggests that the information be derived from sources higher up the stack, like an Invoice.
>
> Other systems I have worked on that have this capability store additional columns at the DR/CR level which implies that the number of available dimensions is fixed, not dynamic. This is usually OK. I haven't seen a company go beyond eight dimensions. But this approach definitely limits flexiibility.
>
> I have had conversations with others in the community on this topic. Some have suggested that we can derive the reporting from the source documents (Invoices, GL Journal, etc.) and do not need to carry lots of dimensions all the way to posting. But it sure makes reporting easier if we do. There are probably other compelling accounting reasons for storing the dimension with the posting but I'm no accountant.
>
> Vince Clark
> Global Era
> The Freedom of Open Source
> [hidden email]
> [phone]
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Barrows" <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Sent: Friday, November 23, 2007 10:37:43 AM (GMT-0700) America/Denver
> Subject: Re: [OFBiz] Users - Accounting Extension (GL, etc) Now In Beta
>
>
> Sure, you can add me to the list. I'm a java developer in my day job.
> I'm learning the rest of OFBIZ. I'm also a team player, I can work
> on whatever we need to to get the job done.
> I had planned with starting on the most glaring omissions, the Income
> and balance sheet. But I haven't actually slung any code for it.
>
> On Nov 22, 2007 11:38 PM, Jacopo Cappellato <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Hi Jim, (and others interested in helping with the implementation of the
> > accounting component)
> >
> > can I add you to the list of "people interested" in this page:
> >
> > http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBADMIN/New+Features+Roadmap+-+Draft 
> >
> > ?
> >
> > If you (or others in this list) are willing to help with the
> > implementation I will do my best to help to organize the work in the
> > community (and also implement something).
> >
> > The main question to the ones interested are:
> >
> > - are there specific tasks you would like to work on?
> > - if not, we can help to assign/distribute tasks, but it would be useful
> > to know what is your area of expertise: tech (Java, minilang,
> > screen/form widgets, etc...) or business (OFBiz data model, existing
> > services, general AR/AP...)
> >
> > I've recently (yesterday and the day before it) I've cleaned up some
> > stuff in the accounting component (and implemented some new screens) and
> > now I have a clearer view of what is already available and what needs to
> > be done: now I'm sure that we can relatively quickly implement some good
> > stuff here with your help, so guys don't be shy!!!
> >
> > Jacopo
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Jim Barrows wrote:
> > > Ok, so we still want to build this.. only better :)
> > >
> > > On Nov 20, 2007 5:12 PM, David E Jones <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >> That is very old, and a lot has changed since then, including what
> > >> happened to this code base. All of the lower level stuff including the
> > >> data structures and GL posting services are part of OFBiz, but the
> > >> higher level things such as reports and automated posting mapping
> > >> services (from things like invoices, payments, inventory changes, etc)
> > >> are all part of the HPL licensed financials component from Open Source
> > >> Strategies, part of the opentaps distribution (semi-fork these days,
> > >> lots of stuff implemented that doesn't go back into OFBiz).
> > >>
> > >> For more information you should see their site at
> > >> opensourcestrategies.com. The HPL (Honest Public License) is a not an
> > >> OSI approved license and has some rather unpleasant terms in it, the
> > >> goal being to force contributions or purchase of a commercial license
> > >> (just like pretty much all "open source" companies that dual license,
> > >> usually with GPL though). The main thing with HPL is that if you make
> > >> it available over the internet it explicitly states that this is
> > >> public distribution of the software (for more details see the license
> > >> itself).
> > >>
> > >> In any case, that is why you're seeing discussion of implementing
> > >> these things even though there is an OFBiz add-on that has them, and
> > >> hence all of the references to another project that is licensed in
> > >> terms that make it hard to build a community around, and that can't be
> > >> included with OFBiz, etc.
> > >>
> > >> -David
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Nov 20, 2007, at 4:54 PM, Jim Barrows wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> So what is the status? Do we have to pay for it? Is it done? i
> > >>> would think that in 2 years it would've gotten done by now.
> > >>>
> > >>> On Nov 20, 2007 4:48 PM, BJ Freeman <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >>>> Here is and update from couple of years ago.
> > >>>> previously there was discussion about the frame work of this.
> > >>>> if I did all these out, is there a place on the documentation site we
> > >>>> can put them to save a lot of re discussion.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> David E. Jones sent the following on 9/23/2005 4:16 PM:
> > >>>>> Update: Accounting/GL Now in Beta Testing
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> The Open For Business Accounting and General Ledger (GL)
> > >>>>> application is
> > >>>>> now moving into beta testing. Currently, it can support the
> > >>>>> accounting
> > >>>>> needs of most product-retail businesses that use Open For Business,
> > >>>>> including:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> * Support for multiple organizations and multiple currencies
> > >>>>> * Setting up chart of accounts with unlimited depth
> > >>>>> * General Ledger posting for most key business processes
> > >>>>> * Financial reports including trial balance, income statements,
> > >>>>> and
> > >>>>> balance sheets
> > >>>>> * Screens to create and manage both Accounts Receivable (AR) and
> > >>>>> Accounts Payable (AP) invoices and payments
> > >>>>> * Screens for managing tax liabilities across multiple
> > >>>>> jurisdictions
> > >>>>> * Administrative features such as periodic closings
> > >>>>> * Flexible entry and maintenance of payments and invoice
> > >>>>> (including
> > >>>>> application payments to invoices, etc)
> > >>>>> * Export to outside accounting applications (QBXML for
> > >>>>> QuickBooks is
> > >>>>> included)
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> This application is fully integrated with the rest of OFBiz,
> > >>>>> including
> > >>>>> ecommerce, Point Of Sales, order manager, and facilities
> > >>>>> manager. It
> > >>>>> drops into your hot-deploy/ directory and runs right away. If
> > >>>>> you need
> > >>>>> other accounting-related features, such as payroll, it is fairly
> > >>>>> easy
> > >>>>> to develop a plug in for it.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> If you would like to learn more about the GL application, there is a
> > >>>>> video from the St. Louis Users' Conference
> > >>>>> (http://www.ofbiz.org/VideosConf.html) and an online demo
> > >>>>> (http://www.opensourcestrategies.com/ofbiz/demos.php).
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> How to Make it Open Source
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> The Accounting and General Ledger is developed under a community
> > >>>>> funding
> > >>>>> model. The idea is to get community funding to help cover the cost
> > >>>>> of
> > >>>>> developing a large, complex application. We think this is a very
> > >>>>> fair
> > >>>>> user-driven model because it can produce open source software with
> > >>>>> either a large number of small contributors or a small number of
> > >>>>> larger
> > >>>>> contributors. As an added incentive, those who contribute over
> > >>>>> $3,000
> > >>>>> can begin to use the application immediately and benefit from all
> > >>>>> its
> > >>>>> features for a fraction of the cost of in-house development.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> We've currently received sponsorship for about half the development
> > >>>>> costs ($26,000 out of about $50,000) and require another $24,000 to
> > >>>>> reach our goal and release it under an open source license. This
> > >>>>> means
> > >>>>> that we can get there with just eight user-contributors with
> > >>>>> $3,000 each
> > >>>>> or, alternatively, a hundred contributors of under $250 each.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> -Si Chen
> > >>>>> -David E. Jones
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> P.S. Special thanks to all who have contributed labor and funds to
> > >>>>> this
> > >>>>> effort, including: Open Source Strategies, Undersun Consulting, Ant
> > >>>>> Websystems, Masterfile Corp, and others.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> _______________________________________________
> > >>>>> Users mailing list
> > >>>>> [hidden email]
> > >>>>> http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users 
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> --
> > >>> James A Barrows
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> James A Barrows
>

--
James A Barrows

[BJ Freeman]

my thinking on that is to append the partyID of company or sub company
and party groups that are department to the GL


Vince M. Clark sent the following on 11/23/2007 12:00 PM:

> I'm not very familiar with QB's but yes, "classes" sounds like a similar concept.
>
> Basically we just need to report on many "classes" or "dimensions" of transactions. Things like cost center, department, and activity are common dimensions.
>
> Vince Clark
> Global Era
> The Freedom of Open Source
> [hidden email]
> [phone]
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Barrows" <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Sent: Friday, November 23, 2007 12:37:13 PM (GMT-0700) America/Denver
> Subject: Re: [OFBiz] Users - Accounting Extension (GL, etc) Now In Beta
>
> I'm not entirely sure what you mean by multi-dimensional accounting.
> Are you talking about a facility like QB's classes? only with
> multiple classes per account? Or just being able to have one GL entry
> be tracked back to one or more business transactions(invoice being
> paid etc).
>
> On Nov 23, 2007 11:13 AM, Vince M. Clark <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> I'm glad to see renewed energy in the Accounting functionality. I have one request and will contribute related knowledge whenever possible.
>>
>> Please consider multi-dimensional accounting in the design. The concept of "Internal Org" is a good start, although I am not sure that it's model could be extended for use with additional accounting dimensions.
>>
>> Here is what I can tell from the data model about how Internal Org appears to be used in postings:
>> AcctgTrans contains a header record of the posting.
>> AcctgTransEntry contains the debits and credits, and also stores the "organizationPartyId." So GL reporting by org can be done.
>>
>> To perform multidimensional accounting we must be able to track other dimensions at the debit and credit level (AcctgTransEntry.) This also suggests that the information be derived from sources higher up the stack, like an Invoice.
>>
>> Other systems I have worked on that have this capability store additional columns at the DR/CR level which implies that the number of available dimensions is fixed, not dynamic. This is usually OK. I haven't seen a company go beyond eight dimensions. But this approach definitely limits flexiibility.
>>
>> I have had conversations with others in the community on this topic. Some have suggested that we can derive the reporting from the source documents (Invoices, GL Journal, etc.) and do not need to carry lots of dimensions all the way to posting. But it sure makes reporting easier if we do. There are probably other compelling accounting reasons for storing the dimension with the posting but I'm no accountant.
>>
>> Vince Clark
>> Global Era
>> The Freedom of Open Source
>> [hidden email]
>> [phone]
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Jim Barrows" <[hidden email]>
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Sent: Friday, November 23, 2007 10:37:43 AM (GMT-0700) America/Denver
>> Subject: Re: [OFBiz] Users - Accounting Extension (GL, etc) Now In Beta
>>
>>
>> Sure, you can add me to the list. I'm a java developer in my day job.
>> I'm learning the rest of OFBIZ. I'm also a team player, I can work
>> on whatever we need to to get the job done.
>> I had planned with starting on the most glaring omissions, the Income
>> and balance sheet. But I haven't actually slung any code for it.
>>
>> On Nov 22, 2007 11:38 PM, Jacopo Cappellato <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Hi Jim, (and others interested in helping with the implementation of the
>>> accounting component)
>>>
>>> can I add you to the list of "people interested" in this page:
>>>
>>> http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBADMIN/New+Features+Roadmap+-+Draft 
>>>
>>> ?
>>>
>>> If you (or others in this list) are willing to help with the
>>> implementation I will do my best to help to organize the work in the
>>> community (and also implement something).
>>>
>>> The main question to the ones interested are:
>>>
>>> - are there specific tasks you would like to work on?
>>> - if not, we can help to assign/distribute tasks, but it would be useful
>>> to know what is your area of expertise: tech (Java, minilang,
>>> screen/form widgets, etc...) or business (OFBiz data model, existing
>>> services, general AR/AP...)
>>>
>>> I've recently (yesterday and the day before it) I've cleaned up some
>>> stuff in the accounting component (and implemented some new screens) and
>>> now I have a clearer view of what is already available and what needs to
>>> be done: now I'm sure that we can relatively quickly implement some good
>>> stuff here with your help, so guys don't be shy!!!
>>>
>>> Jacopo
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jim Barrows wrote:
>>>> Ok, so we still want to build this.. only better :)
>>>>
>>>> On Nov 20, 2007 5:12 PM, David E Jones <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>> That is very old, and a lot has changed since then, including what
>>>>> happened to this code base. All of the lower level stuff including the
>>>>> data structures and GL posting services are part of OFBiz, but the
>>>>> higher level things such as reports and automated posting mapping
>>>>> services (from things like invoices, payments, inventory changes, etc)
>>>>> are all part of the HPL licensed financials component from Open Source
>>>>> Strategies, part of the opentaps distribution (semi-fork these days,
>>>>> lots of stuff implemented that doesn't go back into OFBiz).
>>>>>
>>>>> For more information you should see their site at
>>>>> opensourcestrategies.com. The HPL (Honest Public License) is a not an
>>>>> OSI approved license and has some rather unpleasant terms in it, the
>>>>> goal being to force contributions or purchase of a commercial license
>>>>> (just like pretty much all "open source" companies that dual license,
>>>>> usually with GPL though). The main thing with HPL is that if you make
>>>>> it available over the internet it explicitly states that this is
>>>>> public distribution of the software (for more details see the license
>>>>> itself).
>>>>>
>>>>> In any case, that is why you're seeing discussion of implementing
>>>>> these things even though there is an OFBiz add-on that has them, and
>>>>> hence all of the references to another project that is licensed in
>>>>> terms that make it hard to build a community around, and that can't be
>>>>> included with OFBiz, etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> -David
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Nov 20, 2007, at 4:54 PM, Jim Barrows wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> So what is the status? Do we have to pay for it? Is it done? i
>>>>>> would think that in 2 years it would've gotten done by now.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Nov 20, 2007 4:48 PM, BJ Freeman <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>> Here is and update from couple of years ago.
>>>>>>> previously there was discussion about the frame work of this.
>>>>>>> if I did all these out, is there a place on the documentation site we
>>>>>>> can put them to save a lot of re discussion.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> David E. Jones sent the following on 9/23/2005 4:16 PM:
>>>>>>>> Update: Accounting/GL Now in Beta Testing
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The Open For Business Accounting and General Ledger (GL)
>>>>>>>> application is
>>>>>>>> now moving into beta testing. Currently, it can support the
>>>>>>>> accounting
>>>>>>>> needs of most product-retail businesses that use Open For Business,
>>>>>>>> including:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> * Support for multiple organizations and multiple currencies
>>>>>>>> * Setting up chart of accounts with unlimited depth
>>>>>>>> * General Ledger posting for most key business processes
>>>>>>>> * Financial reports including trial balance, income statements,
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> balance sheets
>>>>>>>> * Screens to create and manage both Accounts Receivable (AR) and
>>>>>>>> Accounts Payable (AP) invoices and payments
>>>>>>>> * Screens for managing tax liabilities across multiple
>>>>>>>> jurisdictions
>>>>>>>> * Administrative features such as periodic closings
>>>>>>>> * Flexible entry and maintenance of payments and invoice
>>>>>>>> (including
>>>>>>>> application payments to invoices, etc)
>>>>>>>> * Export to outside accounting applications (QBXML for
>>>>>>>> QuickBooks is
>>>>>>>> included)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This application is fully integrated with the rest of OFBiz,
>>>>>>>> including
>>>>>>>> ecommerce, Point Of Sales, order manager, and facilities
>>>>>>>> manager. It
>>>>>>>> drops into your hot-deploy/ directory and runs right away. If
>>>>>>>> you need
>>>>>>>> other accounting-related features, such as payroll, it is fairly
>>>>>>>> easy
>>>>>>>> to develop a plug in for it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you would like to learn more about the GL application, there is a
>>>>>>>> video from the St. Louis Users' Conference
>>>>>>>> (http://www.ofbiz.org/VideosConf.html) and an online demo
>>>>>>>> (http://www.opensourcestrategies.com/ofbiz/demos.php).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> How to Make it Open Source
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The Accounting and General Ledger is developed under a community
>>>>>>>> funding
>>>>>>>> model. The idea is to get community funding to help cover the cost
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> developing a large, complex application. We think this is a very
>>>>>>>> fair
>>>>>>>> user-driven model because it can produce open source software with
>>>>>>>> either a large number of small contributors or a small number of
>>>>>>>> larger
>>>>>>>> contributors. As an added incentive, those who contribute over
>>>>>>>> $3,000
>>>>>>>> can begin to use the application immediately and benefit from all
>>>>>>>> its
>>>>>>>> features for a fraction of the cost of in-house development.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We've currently received sponsorship for about half the development
>>>>>>>> costs ($26,000 out of about $50,000) and require another $24,000 to
>>>>>>>> reach our goal and release it under an open source license. This
>>>>>>>> means
>>>>>>>> that we can get there with just eight user-contributors with
>>>>>>>> $3,000 each
>>>>>>>> or, alternatively, a hundred contributors of under $250 each.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -Si Chen
>>>>>>>> -David E. Jones
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> P.S. Special thanks to all who have contributed labor and funds to
>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>> effort, including: Open Source Strategies, Undersun Consulting, Ant
>>>>>>>> Websystems, Masterfile Corp, and others.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Users mailing list
>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>> http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users 
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> James A Barrows
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> James A Barrows
>>
>
>
>

[Shi Jinghai]

Hi all,

I have just created a new group in FaceBook named OFBiz. This group is
not a substitute for any others but for a room that OFBiz users and
developpers can see the others face to face. Welcome anyone to join this
group!

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=21218211992

Regards,

Shi Jinghai/Beijing Langhua Ltd.

[BJ Freeman]

I would hope there is a frequent statement in the group to use the
Mailing list.
it only waters down the effort to have splinters that are not
automatically links to th emailing list.


Shi Jinghai sent the following on 11/24/2007 12:13 AM:

> Hi all,
>
> I have just created a new group in FaceBook named OFBiz. This group is
> not a substitute for any others but for a room that OFBiz users and
> developpers can see the others face to face. Welcome anyone to join this
> group!
>
> http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=21218211992
>
> Regards,
>
> Shi Jinghai/Beijing Langhua Ltd.
>
>
>
>
>

[Jacques Le Roux]

I totally agree, we try to make a community not communities... Of course locale communites have sense (because of language), but
sorry to say that all this facebook proposition looks like fork to me...

Thanks

Jacques

De : "BJ Freeman" <[hidden email]>

> I would hope there is a frequent statement in the group to use the
> Mailing list.
> it only waters down the effort to have splinters that are not
> automatically links to th emailing list.
>
>
> Shi Jinghai sent the following on 11/24/2007 12:13 AM:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I have just created a new group in FaceBook named OFBiz. This group is
> > not a substitute for any others but for a room that OFBiz users and
> > developpers can see the others face to face. Welcome anyone to join this
> > group!
> >
> > http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=21218211992
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Shi Jinghai/Beijing Langhua Ltd.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

[Jacques Le Roux]

I totally agree, we try to make a community not communities... Of course locale communites have sense (because of language), but
sorry to say that all this facebook proposition looks like fork to me...

Thanks

Jacques

De : "BJ Freeman" <[hidden email]>

> I would hope there is a frequent statement in the group to use the
> Mailing list.
> it only waters down the effort to have splinters that are not
> automatically links to th emailing list.
>
>
> Shi Jinghai sent the following on 11/24/2007 12:13 AM:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I have just created a new group in FaceBook named OFBiz. This group is
> > not a substitute for any others but for a room that OFBiz users and
> > developpers can see the others face to face. Welcome anyone to join this
> > group!
> >
> > http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=21218211992
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Shi Jinghai/Beijing Langhua Ltd.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>