OFBiz and Apache Extras

[Jacopo Cappellato-4]

Hi all,

this is a draft of a proposal for a new strategy to setup an ecosystem of extranal projects related with OFBiz (OFBiz Extras).

THE GOAL

* In the past from time to time we had contributors interested in working on a specific enhancement for OFBiz: because of the nature of their participation and because of the way the community works they could not become OFBiz committers and this made the collaboration more difficult
* Recently a committer suggested the use of Apache Extras as a way to implement an OFBiz custom component that could not find its way in the framework
* we have also a lot of code in the OFBiz trunk (framework, themes, specialpurpose and applications) that may find a better location outside of the trunk: this could slim down the codebase and in the same time help the grow of an OFBiz ecosystem. While some of the code we have is probably old and could be removed (of course it will always live in the svn history and we will also document the event somewhere) some other code may still be of some interest to a smaller audience: Apache Extras could be a good fit.

THE DRAFT OF THE PROPOSAL (inspired by the references at the bottom of this page)

Apache Extras is a community of open source projects related to Apache Software Foundation projects or based on their technology. It provides the infrastructure services typically required by open source projects, such as code repositories, bug tracking, project web sites/wiki. Apache Extras is hosted by Google Code Project Hosting, so it will be very familiar to developers already using Google Code Project Hosting. The projects in Apache Extras that accept to follow the rules stated below and are related to Apache OFBiz are grouped under the name "OFBiz Extras".

The following rules apply to projects in the "OFBiz Extras" group:

* do not include the word Apache in their name but use the name "OFBiz Extras - <name of the project>"
* do not use the org.apache and the org.ofbiz namespace for their bundles or package names; exceptions to this guideline must be approved and documented through official discussion by the Apache OFBiz PMC on its public mailing lists and will be dealt with on a case by case basis (in these cases the projects could use org.ofbiz.extras)
* use the Apache License 2.0
* do not include or link to any code that is not compatible with Apache License 2.0
* keep track of all contributions and ensure they are contributed under an Apache License 2.0 compatible license
* discussions about the projects will happen in the project's community
* an official web page in the OFBiz site will be dedicated to projects in "OFBiz Extras"
* the OFBiz PMC may ask for additional requirements/constraints on a case by case basis

Note: we could even drop the 3 requirements about the license: I have added them because they will be required if the project will ever want to initiate the Incubator process to become an official ASF subproject (part of OFBiz)

Kind regards,

Jacopo

Some references:
http://community.apache.org/apache-extras/faq.html
http://code.google.com/a/apache-extras.org/hosting/

[Malin Nicolas]

Great Song Jacopo ;) !

Sure we are enjoy to contribute some compatible project on OFBiz Extras.
We have on own repository :
  * adon-manager (atomic and semantic patch)
  * addon-repository (to manage addons dependence)
  * dynamic screen based on screen-engine and jquery
  * java code generator based on entity-model traduction for those who like
  * an uml constructor based on entity-model
  * A lot's of business addons available here addons.neogia.org/addons

I check what's will be really interesting with this community.

Nicolas

Le 14/03/2012 10:47, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :

> Hi all,
>
> this is a draft of a proposal for a new strategy to setup an ecosystem of extranal projects related with OFBiz (OFBiz Extras).
>
> THE GOAL
>
> * In the past from time to time we had contributors interested in working on a specific enhancement for OFBiz: because of the nature of their participation and because of the way the community works they could not become OFBiz committers and this made the collaboration more difficult
> * Recently a committer suggested the use of Apache Extras as a way to implement an OFBiz custom component that could not find its way in the framework
> * we have also a lot of code in the OFBiz trunk (framework, themes, specialpurpose and applications) that may find a better location outside of the trunk: this could slim down the codebase and in the same time help the grow of an OFBiz ecosystem. While some of the code we have is probably old and could be removed (of course it will always live in the svn history and we will also document the event somewhere) some other code may still be of some interest to a smaller audience: Apache Extras could be a good fit.
>
> THE DRAFT OF THE PROPOSAL (inspired by the references at the bottom of this page)
>
> Apache Extras is a community of open source projects related to Apache Software Foundation projects or based on their technology. It provides the infrastructure services typically required by open source projects, such as code repositories, bug tracking, project web sites/wiki. Apache Extras is hosted by Google Code Project Hosting, so it will be very familiar to developers already using Google Code Project Hosting. The projects in Apache Extras that accept to follow the rules stated below and are related to Apache OFBiz are grouped under the name "OFBiz Extras".
>
> The following rules apply to projects in the "OFBiz Extras" group:
>
> * do not include the word Apache in their name but use the name "OFBiz Extras -<name of the project>"
> * do not use the org.apache and the org.ofbiz namespace for their bundles or package names; exceptions to this guideline must be approved and documented through official discussion by the Apache OFBiz PMC on its public mailing lists and will be dealt with on a case by case basis (in these cases the projects could use org.ofbiz.extras)
> * use the Apache License 2.0
> * do not include or link to any code that is not compatible with Apache License 2.0
> * keep track of all contributions and ensure they are contributed under an Apache License 2.0 compatible license
> * discussions about the projects will happen in the project's community
> * an official web page in the OFBiz site will be dedicated to projects in "OFBiz Extras"
> * the OFBiz PMC may ask for additional requirements/constraints on a case by case basis
>
> Note: we could even drop the 3 requirements about the license: I have added them because they will be required if the project will ever want to initiate the Incubator process to become an official ASF subproject (part of OFBiz)
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Jacopo
>
> Some references:
> http://community.apache.org/apache-extras/faq.html
> http://code.google.com/a/apache-extras.org/hosting/
>

--
Nicolas MALIN
Consultant
Tél : [phone]
Site projet : http://www.neogia.org/
-------
Société LibrenBerry
Tél : [phone]
Site : http://www.librenberry.net/

[Anne Jessel]

I would be in favour of dropping the licence requirements, for two reasons:

1. The Apache Extras FAQ states that a possible reason for using
Apache Extras instead of the Incubator is "the project has a license
or depends on a license that is not compatible with the Apache License
2.0"

2. I seem to remember several suggestions in the ML for enhancements
to OFBiz that had to be refused due to incompatible third party
library licences.

So not requiring the Apache licence might attract more projects.

Either way, looks like a great idea to me.

Cheers,
Anne.

On 14 March 2012 20:47, Jacopo Cappellato
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Hi all,
>
> this is a draft of a proposal for a new strategy to setup an ecosystem of extranal projects related with OFBiz (OFBiz Extras).
>
> THE GOAL
>
> * In the past from time to time we had contributors interested in working on a specific enhancement for OFBiz: because of the nature of their participation and because of the way the community works they could not become OFBiz committers and this made the collaboration more difficult
> * Recently a committer suggested the use of Apache Extras as a way to implement an OFBiz custom component that could not find its way in the framework
> * we have also a lot of code in the OFBiz trunk (framework, themes, specialpurpose and applications) that may find a better location outside of the trunk: this could slim down the codebase and in the same time help the grow of an OFBiz ecosystem. While some of the code we have is probably old and could be removed (of course it will always live in the svn history and we will also document the event somewhere) some other code may still be of some interest to a smaller audience: Apache Extras could be a good fit.
>
> THE DRAFT OF THE PROPOSAL (inspired by the references at the bottom of this page)
>
> Apache Extras is a community of open source projects related to Apache Software Foundation projects or based on their technology. It provides the infrastructure services typically required by open source projects, such as code repositories, bug tracking, project web sites/wiki. Apache Extras is hosted by Google Code Project Hosting, so it will be very familiar to developers already using Google Code Project Hosting. The projects in Apache Extras that accept to follow the rules stated below and are related to Apache OFBiz are grouped under the name "OFBiz Extras".
>
> The following rules apply to projects in the "OFBiz Extras" group:
>
> * do not include the word Apache in their name but use the name "OFBiz Extras - <name of the project>"
> * do not use the org.apache and the org.ofbiz namespace for their bundles or package names; exceptions to this guideline must be approved and documented through official discussion by the Apache OFBiz PMC on its public mailing lists and will be dealt with on a case by case basis (in these cases the projects could use org.ofbiz.extras)
> * use the Apache License 2.0
> * do not include or link to any code that is not compatible with Apache License 2.0
> * keep track of all contributions and ensure they are contributed under an Apache License 2.0 compatible license
> * discussions about the projects will happen in the project's community
> * an official web page in the OFBiz site will be dedicated to projects in "OFBiz Extras"
> * the OFBiz PMC may ask for additional requirements/constraints on a case by case basis
>
> Note: we could even drop the 3 requirements about the license: I have added them because they will be required if the project will ever want to initiate the Incubator process to become an official ASF subproject (part of OFBiz)
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Jacopo
>
> Some references:
> http://community.apache.org/apache-extras/faq.html
> http://code.google.com/a/apache-extras.org/hosting/
>

--
Coherent Software Australia Pty Ltd
PO Box 2773
Cheltenham Vic 3192
Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]
Web: http://www.cohsoft.com.au/
Email: [hidden email]

Bonsai ERP, the all-inclusive ERP system
http://www.bonsaierp.com.au/

[Erwan de FERRIERES]

Le 14/03/2012 10:47, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :

> Note: we could even drop the 3 requirements about the license: I have added them because they will be required if the project will ever want to initiate the Incubator process to become an official ASF subproject (part of OFBiz)
>
> Kind regards,

we should drop the license requirement. If the extra project (as a
sub-project or a TLP) come to incubator, there is this license question
which is examined.


--
Erwan de FERRIERES
www.nereide.biz

[Olivier.heintz]

There are multiple Extra Types :
- technical improvement (ex: new tags or attributes in form, screen,
...  xml engine)
- technical implementation of other tools (ex: a script jsr-233
implementation)
- functionality (ex: stock tracability)
- user interface for a dedicated business (ex: order B2B versus B2C )
- ...

for each, there are multiple status :
- available but without user help or unitTest, without OFBiz best
practice review
- available with user help, unitTest and following OFBiz best practices
   - with or without a (large) community
   - with a Apache license 2.0
   - with a GPL license
   - with a commercial license
   - ...
- ...

Depending of type and status an extras ofbiz brick can have different
life process.

For end user (or beginner in the community) it's necessary to be very
clear about type and status.

In my point of view I see 6 main categories (and so repository and rules)

- Apache OFBiz Kernel :-) not an extra, in Apache repository
- Apache OFBiz extra : for all which are validated by Apache OFBiz
community and ready to use ( ~ like specialpurpose today)
- Apache OFBiz extra archives : for part which are, in the past in
Apache Ofbiz, but which have no more enough contributors to be usable
for the trunk ofbiz (but usable for some other release)

- Apache OFBiz extra incubator : step before being accepted as Apache
OFBiz extra

- OFBiz Extra - <name of project> : own repository, own community, ready
to use, OFBiz best practice following and maybe more specific project
rules.
- OFBiz Extra - <name of project> -dev : step before, maybe no help or
no test, ....

License constraints should be very visible in each "OFBizExtra
repository", and the same license for all single subcomponent
OFBizExtra. Dependency between part of different OFBizExtra is allowed
only if it's compatible with its "repository License". ex: a component
on Apache License can have a dependency to a GPL technical OFBizExtra
brick only if it's stored on a GPL OFBIzExtra repository.

The rules applied to each  "OFBiz Extras-project" are defined and
checked by the <<OFBiz PMC, Apache and Extra>>.

Hoping to be clear, and answer or complete the Jacoppo proposition.

Olivier

ps: I did not argue much, to have a short mail, but :-) I'm able to
argue a lot :-)

Le 14/03/2012 10:47, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :

> Hi all,
>
> this is a draft of a proposal for a new strategy to setup an ecosystem of extranal projects related with OFBiz (OFBiz Extras).
>
> THE GOAL
>
> * In the past from time to time we had contributors interested in working on a specific enhancement for OFBiz: because of the nature of their participation and because of the way the community works they could not become OFBiz committers and this made the collaboration more difficult
> * Recently a committer suggested the use of Apache Extras as a way to implement an OFBiz custom component that could not find its way in the framework
> * we have also a lot of code in the OFBiz trunk (framework, themes, specialpurpose and applications) that may find a better location outside of the trunk: this could slim down the codebase and in the same time help the grow of an OFBiz ecosystem. While some of the code we have is probably old and could be removed (of course it will always live in the svn history and we will also document the event somewhere) some other code may still be of some interest to a smaller audience: Apache Extras could be a good fit.
>
> THE DRAFT OF THE PROPOSAL (inspired by the references at the bottom of this page)
>
> Apache Extras is a community of open source projects related to Apache Software Foundation projects or based on their technology. It provides the infrastructure services typically required by open source projects, such as code repositories, bug tracking, project web sites/wiki. Apache Extras is hosted by Google Code Project Hosting, so it will be very familiar to developers already using Google Code Project Hosting. The projects in Apache Extras that accept to follow the rules stated below and are related to Apache OFBiz are grouped under the name "OFBiz Extras".
>
> The following rules apply to projects in the "OFBiz Extras" group:
>
> * do not include the word Apache in their name but use the name "OFBiz Extras -<name of the project>"
> * do not use the org.apache and the org.ofbiz namespace for their bundles or package names; exceptions to this guideline must be approved and documented through official discussion by the Apache OFBiz PMC on its public mailing lists and will be dealt with on a case by case basis (in these cases the projects could use org.ofbiz.extras)
> * use the Apache License 2.0
> * do not include or link to any code that is not compatible with Apache License 2.0
> * keep track of all contributions and ensure they are contributed under an Apache License 2.0 compatible license
> * discussions about the projects will happen in the project's community
> * an official web page in the OFBiz site will be dedicated to projects in "OFBiz Extras"
> * the OFBiz PMC may ask for additional requirements/constraints on a case by case basis
>
> Note: we could even drop the 3 requirements about the license: I have added them because they will be required if the project will ever want to initiate the Incubator process to become an official ASF subproject (part of OFBiz)
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Jacopo
>
> Some references:
> http://community.apache.org/apache-extras/faq.html
> http://code.google.com/a/apache-extras.org/hosting/
>
>

[Jacopo Cappellato-4]

Hi Olivier,

nice to talk with you again.
I agree with yours and others comments on this proposal: in short we will setup a page in the OFBiz website with a list of OFBiz related projects in Apache Extras mentioning the license and a small description of what they do and their status; the OFBiz PMC will decide by vote the projects that will be listed in that page and how to describe them.

Jacopo

On Mar 16, 2012, at 5:23 PM, Olivier Heintz wrote:

> There are multiple Extra Types :
> - technical improvement (ex: new tags or attributes in form, screen, ...  xml engine)
> - technical implementation of other tools (ex: a script jsr-233 implementation)
> - functionality (ex: stock tracability)
> - user interface for a dedicated business (ex: order B2B versus B2C )
> - ...
>
> for each, there are multiple status :
> - available but without user help or unitTest, without OFBiz best practice review
> - available with user help, unitTest and following OFBiz best practices
>  - with or without a (large) community
>  - with a Apache license 2.0
>  - with a GPL license
>  - with a commercial license
>  - ...
> - ...
>
> Depending of type and status an extras ofbiz brick can have different life process.
>
> For end user (or beginner in the community) it's necessary to be very clear about type and status.
>
> In my point of view I see 6 main categories (and so repository and rules)
>
> - Apache OFBiz Kernel :-) not an extra, in Apache repository
> - Apache OFBiz extra : for all which are validated by Apache OFBiz community and ready to use ( ~ like specialpurpose today)
> - Apache OFBiz extra archives : for part which are, in the past in Apache Ofbiz, but which have no more enough contributors to be usable for the trunk ofbiz (but usable for some other release)
>
> - Apache OFBiz extra incubator : step before being accepted as Apache OFBiz extra
>
> - OFBiz Extra - <name of project> : own repository, own community, ready to use, OFBiz best practice following and maybe more specific project rules.
> - OFBiz Extra - <name of project> -dev : step before, maybe no help or no test, ....
>
> License constraints should be very visible in each "OFBizExtra repository", and the same license for all single subcomponent OFBizExtra. Dependency between part of different OFBizExtra is allowed only if it's compatible with its "repository License". ex: a component on Apache License can have a dependency to a GPL technical OFBizExtra brick only if it's stored on a GPL OFBIzExtra repository.
>
> The rules applied to each  "OFBiz Extras-project" are defined and checked by the <<OFBiz PMC, Apache and Extra>>.
>
> Hoping to be clear, and answer or complete the Jacoppo proposition.
>
> Olivier
>
> ps: I did not argue much, to have a short mail, but :-) I'm able to argue a lot :-)
>
> Le 14/03/2012 10:47, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
>> Hi all,
>>
>> this is a draft of a proposal for a new strategy to setup an ecosystem of extranal projects related with OFBiz (OFBiz Extras).
>>
>> THE GOAL
>>
>> * In the past from time to time we had contributors interested in working on a specific enhancement for OFBiz: because of the nature of their participation and because of the way the community works they could not become OFBiz committers and this made the collaboration more difficult
>> * Recently a committer suggested the use of Apache Extras as a way to implement an OFBiz custom component that could not find its way in the framework
>> * we have also a lot of code in the OFBiz trunk (framework, themes, specialpurpose and applications) that may find a better location outside of the trunk: this could slim down the codebase and in the same time help the grow of an OFBiz ecosystem. While some of the code we have is probably old and could be removed (of course it will always live in the svn history and we will also document the event somewhere) some other code may still be of some interest to a smaller audience: Apache Extras could be a good fit.
>>
>> THE DRAFT OF THE PROPOSAL (inspired by the references at the bottom of this page)
>>
>> Apache Extras is a community of open source projects related to Apache Software Foundation projects or based on their technology. It provides the infrastructure services typically required by open source projects, such as code repositories, bug tracking, project web sites/wiki. Apache Extras is hosted by Google Code Project Hosting, so it will be very familiar to developers already using Google Code Project Hosting. The projects in Apache Extras that accept to follow the rules stated below and are related to Apache OFBiz are grouped under the name "OFBiz Extras".
>>
>> The following rules apply to projects in the "OFBiz Extras" group:
>>
>> * do not include the word Apache in their name but use the name "OFBiz Extras -<name of the project>"
>> * do not use the org.apache and the org.ofbiz namespace for their bundles or package names; exceptions to this guideline must be approved and documented through official discussion by the Apache OFBiz PMC on its public mailing lists and will be dealt with on a case by case basis (in these cases the projects could use org.ofbiz.extras)
>> * use the Apache License 2.0
>> * do not include or link to any code that is not compatible with Apache License 2.0
>> * keep track of all contributions and ensure they are contributed under an Apache License 2.0 compatible license
>> * discussions about the projects will happen in the project's community
>> * an official web page in the OFBiz site will be dedicated to projects in "OFBiz Extras"
>> * the OFBiz PMC may ask for additional requirements/constraints on a case by case basis
>>
>> Note: we could even drop the 3 requirements about the license: I have added them because they will be required if the project will ever want to initiate the Incubator process to become an official ASF subproject (part of OFBiz)
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>> Jacopo
>>
>> Some references:
>> http://community.apache.org/apache-extras/faq.html
>> http://code.google.com/a/apache-extras.org/hosting/
>>
>>
>

[Anil Patel-3]

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 16, 2012, at 12:50 PM, Jacopo Cappellato <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Olivier,
>
> nice to talk with you again.
> I agree with yours and others comments on this proposal: in short we will setup a page in the OFBiz website with a list of OFBiz related projects in Apache Extras mentioning the license and a small description of what they do and their status; the OFBiz PMC will decide by vote the projects that will be listed in that page and how to describe them.
>
> Jacopo
>
> On Mar 16, 2012, at 5:23 PM, Olivier Heintz wrote:
>
>> There are multiple Extra Types :
>> - technical improvement (ex: new tags or attributes in form, screen, ...  xml engine)
>> - technical implementation of other tools (ex: a script jsr-233 implementation)
>> - functionality (ex: stock tracability)
>> - user interface for a dedicated business (ex: order B2B versus B2C )
>> - ...
>>
>> for each, there are multiple status :
>> - available but without user help or unitTest, without OFBiz best practice review
>> - available with user help, unitTest and following OFBiz best practices
>> - with or without a (large) community
>> - with a Apache license 2.0
>> - with a GPL license
>> - with a commercial license
>> - ...
>> - ...
>>
>> Depending of type and status an extras ofbiz brick can have different life process.
>>
>> For end user (or beginner in the community) it's necessary to be very clear about type and status.
>>
>> In my point of view I see 6 main categories (and so repository and rules)
>>
>> - Apache OFBiz Kernel :-) not an extra, in Apache repository
>> - Apache OFBiz extra : for all which are validated by Apache OFBiz community and ready to use ( ~ like specialpurpose today)
>> - Apache OFBiz extra archives : for part which are, in the past in Apache Ofbiz, but which have no more enough contributors to be usable for the trunk ofbiz (but usable for some other release)
>>
>> - Apache OFBiz extra incubator : step before being accepted as Apache OFBiz extra
>>
>> - OFBiz Extra - <name of project> : own repository, own community, ready to use, OFBiz best practice following and maybe more specific project rules.
>> - OFBiz Extra - <name of project> -dev : step before, maybe no help or no test, ....
>>
>> License constraints should be very visible in each "OFBizExtra repository", and the same license for all single subcomponent OFBizExtra. Dependency between part of different OFBizExtra is allowed only if it's compatible with its "repository License". ex: a component on Apache License can have a dependency to a GPL technical OFBizExtra brick only if it's stored on a GPL OFBIzExtra repository.
>>
>> The rules applied to each  "OFBiz Extras-project" are defined and checked by the <<OFBiz PMC, Apache and Extra>>.
>>
>> Hoping to be clear, and answer or complete the Jacoppo proposition.
>>
>> Olivier
>>
>> ps: I did not argue much, to have a short mail, but :-) I'm able to argue a lot :-)
>>
>> Le 14/03/2012 10:47, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> this is a draft of a proposal for a new strategy to setup an ecosystem of extranal projects related with OFBiz (OFBiz Extras).
>>>
>>> THE GOAL
>>>
>>> * In the past from time to time we had contributors interested in working on a specific enhancement for OFBiz: because of the nature of their participation and because of the way the community works they could not become OFBiz committers and this made the collaboration more difficult
>>> * Recently a committer suggested the use of Apache Extras as a way to implement an OFBiz custom component that could not find its way in the framework
>>> * we have also a lot of code in the OFBiz trunk (framework, themes, specialpurpose and applications) that may find a better location outside of the trunk: this could slim down the codebase and in the same time help the grow of an OFBiz ecosystem. While some of the code we have is probably old and could be removed (of course it will always live in the svn history and we will also document the event somewhere) some other code may still be of some interest to a smaller audience: Apache Extras could be a good fit.
>>>
>>> THE DRAFT OF THE PROPOSAL (inspired by the references at the bottom of this page)
>>>
>>> Apache Extras is a community of open source projects related to Apache Software Foundation projects or based on their technology. It provides the infrastructure services typically required by open source projects, such as code repositories, bug tracking, project web sites/wiki. Apache Extras is hosted by Google Code Project Hosting, so it will be very familiar to developers already using Google Code Project Hosting. The projects in Apache Extras that accept to follow the rules stated below and are related to Apache OFBiz are grouped under the name "OFBiz Extras".
>>>
>>> The following rules apply to projects in the "OFBiz Extras" group:
>>>
>>> * do not include the word Apache in their name but use the name "OFBiz Extras -<name of the project>"
>>> * do not use the org.apache and the org.ofbiz namespace for their bundles or package names; exceptions to this guideline must be approved and documented through official discussion by the Apache OFBiz PMC on its public mailing lists and will be dealt with on a case by case basis (in these cases the projects could use org.ofbiz.extras)
>>> * use the Apache License 2.0
>>> * do not include or link to any code that is not compatible with Apache License 2.0
>>> * keep track of all contributions and ensure they are contributed under an Apache License 2.0 compatible license
>>> * discussions about the projects will happen in the project's community
>>> * an official web page in the OFBiz site will be dedicated to projects in "OFBiz Extras"
>>> * the OFBiz PMC may ask for additional requirements/constraints on a case by case basis
>>>
>>> Note: we could even drop the 3 requirements about the license: I have added them because they will be required if the project will ever want to initiate the Incubator process to become an official ASF subproject (part of OFBiz)
>>>
>>> Kind regards,
>>>
>>> Jacopo
>>>
>>> Some references:
>>> http://community.apache.org/apache-extras/faq.html
>>> http://code.google.com/a/apache-extras.org/hosting/
>>>
>>>
>>
>