OFBiz.org site: easier navigation to Service Providers and End Users

[Nick Rosser-2]

All,

Whenever I look at pretty much anything these days I look for a
"clients" link to see who is using a product or service.

If I'm looking to use a piece of software and review at the vendor's
site I will often look to see who are the partners (integrators) are --
as a client I would be looking for some comfort level that the product
or service will well supported.

For OFBiz this is hidden under the "documentation" tab, at the bottom of
that page, in small font and labelled "Users of Apache OFBiz".and
"Apache OFBiz Service Providers". Documentation to me is just that, a
list of user and technical documentation, white papers etc.

Could these two links to main navigation bar? I would suggest that the
main navigation is:

Home
Download
Community
Service Providers
Who is using OFBiz?
Documentation

Nick

[Jacques Le Roux]

That sounds a good marketing idea to me

This was a bit like that before, http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?view=revision&revision=925066
But has been moved down because of conflicting opinions. I don't remember clearly...

What are others opinions?

Jacques

On Wednesday, February 05, 2014 2:40 PM, [hidden email] wrote

> All,
>
> Whenever I look at pretty much anything these days I look for a
> "clients" link to see who is using a product or service.
>
> If I'm looking to use a piece of software and review at the vendor's
> site I will often look to see who are the partners (integrators) are --
> as a client I would be looking for some comfort level that the product
> or service will well supported.
>
> For OFBiz this is hidden under the "documentation" tab, at the bottom of
> that page, in small font and labelled "Users of Apache OFBiz".and
> "Apache OFBiz Service Providers". Documentation to me is just that, a
> list of user and technical documentation, white papers etc.
>
> Could these two links to main navigation bar? I would suggest that the
> main navigation is:
>
> Home
> Download
> Community
> Service Providers
> Who is using OFBiz?
> Documentation
>
> Nick

[Pierre Smits]

I agree with the above.

Not only will it deliver on the marketing aspect, but it might also attract
some more participation.

Regards,

Pierre Smits

*ORRTIZ.COM <http://ORRTIZ.COM>*
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com


On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 12:37 PM, Jacques Le Roux <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> That sounds a good marketing idea to me
>
> This was a bit like that before,
> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?view=revision&revision=925066
> But has been moved down because of conflicting opinions. I don't remember
> clearly...
>
> What are others opinions?
>
> Jacques
>
> On Wednesday, February 05, 2014 2:40 PM, [hidden email] wrote
> > All,
> >
> > Whenever I look at pretty much anything these days I look for a
> > "clients" link to see who is using a product or service.
> >
> > If I'm looking to use a piece of software and review at the vendor's
> > site I will often look to see who are the partners (integrators) are --
> > as a client I would be looking for some comfort level that the product
> > or service will well supported.
> >
> > For OFBiz this is hidden under the "documentation" tab, at the bottom of
> > that page, in small font and labelled "Users of Apache OFBiz".and
> > "Apache OFBiz Service Providers". Documentation to me is just that, a
> > list of user and technical documentation, white papers etc.
> >
> > Could these two links to main navigation bar? I would suggest that the
> > main navigation is:
> >
> > Home
> > Download
> > Community
> > Service Providers
> > Who is using OFBiz?
> > Documentation
> >
> > Nick
>

[Christian Geisert]

Am 05.02.2014 14:40, schrieb Nick Rosser:

> All,
>
> Whenever I look at pretty much anything these days I look for a
> "clients" link to see who is using a product or service.
>
> If I'm looking to use a piece of software and review at the vendor's
> site I will often look to see who are the partners (integrators) are --
> as a client I would be looking for some comfort level that the product
> or service will well supported.
>
> For OFBiz this is hidden under the "documentation" tab, at the bottom of
> that page, in small font and labelled "Users of Apache OFBiz".and
> "Apache OFBiz Service Providers". Documentation to me is just that, a
> list of user and technical documentation, white papers etc.
>
> Could these two links to main navigation bar? I would suggest that the
> main navigation is:

I absolutely agree with you but if I remember correctly the links were
removed because there shouldn't be any links from the homepage to the
Wiki because this could cause too much traffic for the Wiki...

Ah yes: http://markmail.org/thread/fejr5olvi6ggq53h

I don't know if this is really is a problem - we could ask Infra or move
parts of the Wiki to the CMS

Christian

[Nick Rosser-2]

Pierre: "attract some more participation" -- exactly.

I did see a response about the original change to omit these from the
home page - I can't imagine that we have enough traffic to stress any
server.

If there is general agreement who can make the change?

On 2/7/2014 3:53 AM, Pierre Smits wrote:

> I agree with the above.
>
> Not only will it deliver on the marketing aspect, but it might also attract
> some more participation.
>
> Regards,
>
> Pierre Smits
>
> *ORRTIZ.COM<http://ORRTIZ.COM>*
> Services&  Solutions for Cloud-
> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> Services and Retail&  Trade
> http://www.orrtiz.com
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 12:37 PM, Jacques Le Roux<
> [hidden email]>  wrote:
>
>> That sounds a good marketing idea to me
>>
>> This was a bit like that before,
>> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?view=revision&revision=925066
>> But has been moved down because of conflicting opinions. I don't remember
>> clearly...
>>
>> What are others opinions?
>>
>> Jacques
>>
>> On Wednesday, February 05, 2014 2:40 PM, [hidden email] wrote
>>> All,
>>>
>>> Whenever I look at pretty much anything these days I look for a
>>> "clients" link to see who is using a product or service.
>>>
>>> If I'm looking to use a piece of software and review at the vendor's
>>> site I will often look to see who are the partners (integrators) are --
>>> as a client I would be looking for some comfort level that the product
>>> or service will well supported.
>>>
>>> For OFBiz this is hidden under the "documentation" tab, at the bottom of
>>> that page, in small font and labelled "Users of Apache OFBiz".and
>>> "Apache OFBiz Service Providers". Documentation to me is just that, a
>>> list of user and technical documentation, white papers etc.
>>>
>>> Could these two links to main navigation bar? I would suggest that the
>>> main navigation is:
>>>
>>> Home
>>> Download
>>> Community
>>> Service Providers
>>> Who is using OFBiz?
>>> Documentation
>>>
>>> Nick

[Jacques Le Roux]

I think you have a point Nick,

We could add those without expecting load issues on Confluence indeed.

Jacques

On Friday, February 07, 2014 4:06 PM, [hidden email] wrote

> Pierre: "attract some more participation" -- exactly.
>
> I did see a response about the original change to omit these from the
> home page - I can't imagine that we have enough traffic to stress any
> server.
>
> If there is general agreement who can make the change?
>
> On 2/7/2014 3:53 AM, Pierre Smits wrote:
>> I agree with the above.
>>
>> Not only will it deliver on the marketing aspect, but it might also attract
>> some more participation.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Pierre Smits
>>
>> *ORRTIZ.COM<http://ORRTIZ.COM>*
>> Services&  Solutions for Cloud-
>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>> Services and Retail&  Trade
>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 12:37 PM, Jacques Le Roux<
>> [hidden email]>  wrote:
>>
>>> That sounds a good marketing idea to me
>>>
>>> This was a bit like that before,
>>> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?view=revision&revision=925066
>>> But has been moved down because of conflicting opinions. I don't remember
>>> clearly...
>>>
>>> What are others opinions?
>>>
>>> Jacques
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, February 05, 2014 2:40 PM, [hidden email] wrote
>>>> All,
>>>>
>>>> Whenever I look at pretty much anything these days I look for a
>>>> "clients" link to see who is using a product or service.
>>>>
>>>> If I'm looking to use a piece of software and review at the vendor's
>>>> site I will often look to see who are the partners (integrators) are --
>>>> as a client I would be looking for some comfort level that the product
>>>> or service will well supported.
>>>>
>>>> For OFBiz this is hidden under the "documentation" tab, at the bottom of
>>>> that page, in small font and labelled "Users of Apache OFBiz".and
>>>> "Apache OFBiz Service Providers". Documentation to me is just that, a
>>>> list of user and technical documentation, white papers etc.
>>>>
>>>> Could these two links to main navigation bar? I would suggest that the
>>>> main navigation is:
>>>>
>>>> Home
>>>> Download
>>>> Community
>>>> Service Providers
>>>> Who is using OFBiz?
>>>> Documentation
>>>>
>>>> Nick

[Jacopo Cappellato-4]

The project doesn't have much control over the information published in the wiki and we should not publish links in the official website that may imply that these pages are official. In the past we had issues and discussions around what was published in the official website and the current website is the result of those.

Jacopo


On Feb 10, 2014, at 11:24 AM, Jacques Le Roux <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I think you have a point Nick,
>
> We could add those without expecting load issues on Confluence indeed.
>
> Jacques
>
> On Friday, February 07, 2014 4:06 PM, [hidden email] wrote
>> Pierre: "attract some more participation" -- exactly.
>>
>> I did see a response about the original change to omit these from the
>> home page - I can't imagine that we have enough traffic to stress any
>> server.
>>
>> If there is general agreement who can make the change?
>>
>> On 2/7/2014 3:53 AM, Pierre Smits wrote:
>>> I agree with the above.
>>>
>>> Not only will it deliver on the marketing aspect, but it might also attract
>>> some more participation.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Pierre Smits
>>>
>>> *ORRTIZ.COM<http://ORRTIZ.COM>*
>>> Services&  Solutions for Cloud-
>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>> Services and Retail&  Trade
>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 12:37 PM, Jacques Le Roux<
>>> [hidden email]>  wrote:
>>>
>>>> That sounds a good marketing idea to me
>>>>
>>>> This was a bit like that before,
>>>> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?view=revision&revision=925066
>>>> But has been moved down because of conflicting opinions. I don't remember
>>>> clearly...
>>>>
>>>> What are others opinions?
>>>>
>>>> Jacques
>>>>
>>>> On Wednesday, February 05, 2014 2:40 PM, [hidden email] wrote
>>>>> All,
>>>>>
>>>>> Whenever I look at pretty much anything these days I look for a
>>>>> "clients" link to see who is using a product or service.
>>>>>
>>>>> If I'm looking to use a piece of software and review at the vendor's
>>>>> site I will often look to see who are the partners (integrators) are --
>>>>> as a client I would be looking for some comfort level that the product
>>>>> or service will well supported.
>>>>>
>>>>> For OFBiz this is hidden under the "documentation" tab, at the bottom of
>>>>> that page, in small font and labelled "Users of Apache OFBiz".and
>>>>> "Apache OFBiz Service Providers". Documentation to me is just that, a
>>>>> list of user and technical documentation, white papers etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> Could these two links to main navigation bar? I would suggest that the
>>>>> main navigation is:
>>>>>
>>>>> Home
>>>>> Download
>>>>> Community
>>>>> Service Providers
>>>>> Who is using OFBiz?
>>>>> Documentation
>>>>>
>>>>> Nick

[Pierre Smits]

It shouldn't prove to difficult to have menu items in the menu bar of the
website that directly link to pages in the wiki.

Pierre Smits

*ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com


On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 11:15 AM, Jacopo Cappellato <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> The project doesn't have much control over the information published in
> the wiki and we should not publish links in the official website that may
> imply that these pages are official. In the past we had issues and
> discussions around what was published in the official website and the
> current website is the result of those.
>
> Jacopo
>
>
> On Feb 10, 2014, at 11:24 AM, Jacques Le Roux <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > I think you have a point Nick,
> >
> > We could add those without expecting load issues on Confluence indeed.
> >
> > Jacques
> >
> > On Friday, February 07, 2014 4:06 PM, [hidden email] wrote
> >> Pierre: "attract some more participation" -- exactly.
> >>
> >> I did see a response about the original change to omit these from the
> >> home page - I can't imagine that we have enough traffic to stress any
> >> server.
> >>
> >> If there is general agreement who can make the change?
> >>
> >> On 2/7/2014 3:53 AM, Pierre Smits wrote:
> >>> I agree with the above.
> >>>
> >>> Not only will it deliver on the marketing aspect, but it might also
> attract
> >>> some more participation.
> >>>
> >>> Regards,
> >>>
> >>> Pierre Smits
> >>>
> >>> *ORRTIZ.COM<http://ORRTIZ.COM>*
> >>> Services&  Solutions for Cloud-
> >>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> >>> Services and Retail&  Trade
> >>> http://www.orrtiz.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 12:37 PM, Jacques Le Roux<
> >>> [hidden email]>  wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> That sounds a good marketing idea to me
> >>>>
> >>>> This was a bit like that before,
> >>>> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?view=revision&revision=925066
> >>>> But has been moved down because of conflicting opinions. I don't
> remember
> >>>> clearly...
> >>>>
> >>>> What are others opinions?
> >>>>
> >>>> Jacques
> >>>>
> >>>> On Wednesday, February 05, 2014 2:40 PM, [hidden email] wrote
> >>>>> All,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Whenever I look at pretty much anything these days I look for a
> >>>>> "clients" link to see who is using a product or service.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If I'm looking to use a piece of software and review at the vendor's
> >>>>> site I will often look to see who are the partners (integrators) are
> --
> >>>>> as a client I would be looking for some comfort level that the
> product
> >>>>> or service will well supported.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> For OFBiz this is hidden under the "documentation" tab, at the
> bottom of
> >>>>> that page, in small font and labelled "Users of Apache OFBiz".and
> >>>>> "Apache OFBiz Service Providers". Documentation to me is just that, a
> >>>>> list of user and technical documentation, white papers etc.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Could these two links to main navigation bar? I would suggest that
> the
> >>>>> main navigation is:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Home
> >>>>> Download
> >>>>> Community
> >>>>> Service Providers
> >>>>> Who is using OFBiz?
> >>>>> Documentation
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Nick
>
>

[Nick Rosser-2]

So what's the final word on this?

Seems like we have mostly "yeahs" for this change. Can we get it done?

Nick

On 2/12/2014 5:45 AM, Pierre Smits wrote:

> It shouldn't prove to difficult to have menu items in the menu bar of the
> website that directly link to pages in the wiki.
>
> Pierre Smits
>
> *ORRTIZ.COM<http://www.orrtiz.com>*
> Services&  Solutions for Cloud-
> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> Services and Retail&  Trade
> http://www.orrtiz.com
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 11:15 AM, Jacopo Cappellato<
> [hidden email]>  wrote:
>
>> The project doesn't have much control over the information published in
>> the wiki and we should not publish links in the official website that may
>> imply that these pages are official. In the past we had issues and
>> discussions around what was published in the official website and the
>> current website is the result of those.
>>
>> Jacopo
>>
>>
>> On Feb 10, 2014, at 11:24 AM, Jacques Le Roux<
>> [hidden email]>  wrote:
>>
>>> I think you have a point Nick,
>>>
>>> We could add those without expecting load issues on Confluence indeed.
>>>
>>> Jacques
>>>
>>> On Friday, February 07, 2014 4:06 PM, [hidden email] wrote
>>>> Pierre: "attract some more participation" -- exactly.
>>>>
>>>> I did see a response about the original change to omit these from the
>>>> home page - I can't imagine that we have enough traffic to stress any
>>>> server.
>>>>
>>>> If there is general agreement who can make the change?
>>>>
>>>> On 2/7/2014 3:53 AM, Pierre Smits wrote:
>>>>> I agree with the above.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not only will it deliver on the marketing aspect, but it might also
>> attract
>>>>> some more participation.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Pierre Smits
>>>>>
>>>>> *ORRTIZ.COM<http://ORRTIZ.COM>*
>>>>> Services&   Solutions for Cloud-
>>>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>>>> Services and Retail&   Trade
>>>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 12:37 PM, Jacques Le Roux<
>>>>> [hidden email]>   wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> That sounds a good marketing idea to me
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This was a bit like that before,
>>>>>> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?view=revision&revision=925066
>>>>>> But has been moved down because of conflicting opinions. I don't
>> remember
>>>>>> clearly...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What are others opinions?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wednesday, February 05, 2014 2:40 PM, [hidden email] wrote
>>>>>>> All,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Whenever I look at pretty much anything these days I look for a
>>>>>>> "clients" link to see who is using a product or service.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If I'm looking to use a piece of software and review at the vendor's
>>>>>>> site I will often look to see who are the partners (integrators) are
>> --
>>>>>>> as a client I would be looking for some comfort level that the
>> product
>>>>>>> or service will well supported.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For OFBiz this is hidden under the "documentation" tab, at the
>> bottom of
>>>>>>> that page, in small font and labelled "Users of Apache OFBiz".and
>>>>>>> "Apache OFBiz Service Providers". Documentation to me is just that, a
>>>>>>> list of user and technical documentation, white papers etc.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Could these two links to main navigation bar? I would suggest that
>> the
>>>>>>> main navigation is:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Home
>>>>>>> Download
>>>>>>> Community
>>>>>>> Service Providers
>>>>>>> Who is using OFBiz?
>>>>>>> Documentation
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nick
>>

[Jacopo Cappellato-4]

On Feb 17, 2014, at 3:40 PM, Nick Rosser <[hidden email]> wrote:

> So what's the final word on this?
>
> Seems like we have mostly "yeahs" for this change.

This doesn't seem an accurate summary of the feedback received: Jacques and Pierre expressed a positive feedback; Christian seems neutral; I am against; no one else expressed an opinion yet.
It is really too early to come up to such a conclusion.

> Can we get it done?

I understand that companies are interested in getting free marketing (SEO etc..) from independent and authoritative sources like the official OFBiz site and the ASF in general, and this adds some pressure on the OFBiz PMC and project. However, as I already stated, I will be against any changes, e.g., adding a link on the "top menu", that may convey the impression that the project officially supports or even approves any content on which there is no control, e.g., the content of wiki documents.

Specifically, the links you want to add in the top menu point to the following documents:

https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBIZ/Apache+OFBiz+Service+Providers
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBIZ/Apache+OFBiz+User+List

for which there is no control or rules on who, what and how information can be published, and there are links that potentially violate the trademarks policy  of OFBIZ and ASF.
After a cursory review of the content of these documents I would be even tempted to propose the removal of the links from the documentation page, rather than adding them to the top menu (and I am a bit surprised to see that a PMC member may be in favor of adding them there).

Regards,

Jacopo

>
> Nick
>
> On 2/12/2014 5:45 AM, Pierre Smits wrote:
>> It shouldn't prove to difficult to have menu items in the menu bar of the
>> website that directly link to pages in the wiki.
>>
>> Pierre Smits
>>
>> *ORRTIZ.COM<http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>> Services&  Solutions for Cloud-
>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>> Services and Retail&  Trade
>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 11:15 AM, Jacopo Cappellato<
>> [hidden email]>  wrote:
>>
>>> The project doesn't have much control over the information published in
>>> the wiki and we should not publish links in the official website that may
>>> imply that these pages are official. In the past we had issues and
>>> discussions around what was published in the official website and the
>>> current website is the result of those.
>>>
>>> Jacopo
>>>
>>>
>>> On Feb 10, 2014, at 11:24 AM, Jacques Le Roux<
>>> [hidden email]>  wrote:
>>>
>>>> I think you have a point Nick,
>>>>
>>>> We could add those without expecting load issues on Confluence indeed.
>>>>
>>>> Jacques
>>>>
>>>> On Friday, February 07, 2014 4:06 PM, [hidden email] wrote
>>>>> Pierre: "attract some more participation" -- exactly.
>>>>>
>>>>> I did see a response about the original change to omit these from the
>>>>> home page - I can't imagine that we have enough traffic to stress any
>>>>> server.
>>>>>
>>>>> If there is general agreement who can make the change?
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2/7/2014 3:53 AM, Pierre Smits wrote:
>>>>>> I agree with the above.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not only will it deliver on the marketing aspect, but it might also
>>> attract
>>>>>> some more participation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Pierre Smits
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *ORRTIZ.COM<http://ORRTIZ.COM>*
>>>>>> Services&   Solutions for Cloud-
>>>>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>>>>> Services and Retail&   Trade
>>>>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 12:37 PM, Jacques Le Roux<
>>>>>> [hidden email]>   wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That sounds a good marketing idea to me
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This was a bit like that before,
>>>>>>> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?view=revision&revision=925066
>>>>>>> But has been moved down because of conflicting opinions. I don't
>>> remember
>>>>>>> clearly...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What are others opinions?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wednesday, February 05, 2014 2:40 PM, [hidden email] wrote
>>>>>>>> All,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Whenever I look at pretty much anything these days I look for a
>>>>>>>> "clients" link to see who is using a product or service.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If I'm looking to use a piece of software and review at the vendor's
>>>>>>>> site I will often look to see who are the partners (integrators) are
>>> --
>>>>>>>> as a client I would be looking for some comfort level that the
>>> product
>>>>>>>> or service will well supported.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> For OFBiz this is hidden under the "documentation" tab, at the
>>> bottom of
>>>>>>>> that page, in small font and labelled "Users of Apache OFBiz".and
>>>>>>>> "Apache OFBiz Service Providers". Documentation to me is just that, a
>>>>>>>> list of user and technical documentation, white papers etc.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Could these two links to main navigation bar? I would suggest that
>>> the
>>>>>>>> main navigation is:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Home
>>>>>>>> Download
>>>>>>>> Community
>>>>>>>> Service Providers
>>>>>>>> Who is using OFBiz?
>>>>>>>> Documentation
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nick
>>>

[Pierre Smits]

Having done a cursory review of websites of other Apache Projects I can
state that we are not creating a precedent here.

As for the possibility of potentially conveying the impression that the
community or the ASF are officially supporting implementation and support
providers this can be easily corrected with a statement at the top of the
document(s). As for the remark regarding approving any content this can be
said of anything posted in any document the project controls, e.g. mailing
lists postings.

Regarding violating trademark policies of ASF it is so that the foundation
has sufficient means (and procedures) at its disposal to take corrective
measures. If there are violations of such policies, then these should be
addressed.

Regards,

Pierre Smits

*ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com


On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 10:54 AM, Jacopo Cappellato <
[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On Feb 17, 2014, at 3:40 PM, Nick Rosser <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > So what's the final word on this?
> >
> > Seems like we have mostly "yeahs" for this change.
>
> This doesn't seem an accurate summary of the feedback received: Jacques
> and Pierre expressed a positive feedback; Christian seems neutral; I am
> against; no one else expressed an opinion yet.
> It is really too early to come up to such a conclusion.
>
> > Can we get it done?
>
> I understand that companies are interested in getting free marketing (SEO
> etc..) from independent and authoritative sources like the official OFBiz
> site and the ASF in general, and this adds some pressure on the OFBiz PMC
> and project. However, as I already stated, I will be against any changes,
> e.g., adding a link on the "top menu", that may convey the impression that
> the project officially supports or even approves any content on which there
> is no control, e.g., the content of wiki documents.
>
> Specifically, the links you want to add in the top menu point to the
> following documents:
>
>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBIZ/Apache+OFBiz+Service+Providers
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBIZ/Apache+OFBiz+User+List
>
> for which there is no control or rules on who, what and how information
> can be published, and there are links that potentially violate the
> trademarks policy  of OFBIZ and ASF.
> After a cursory review of the content of these documents I would be even
> tempted to propose the removal of the links from the documentation page,
> rather than adding them to the top menu (and I am a bit surprised to see
> that a PMC member may be in favor of adding them there).
>
> Regards,
>
> Jacopo
>
> >
> > Nick
> >
> > On 2/12/2014 5:45 AM, Pierre Smits wrote:
> >> It shouldn't prove to difficult to have menu items in the menu bar of
> the
> >> website that directly link to pages in the wiki.
> >>
> >> Pierre Smits
> >>
> >> *ORRTIZ.COM<http://www.orrtiz.com>*
> >> Services&  Solutions for Cloud-
> >> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> >> Services and Retail&  Trade
> >> http://www.orrtiz.com
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 11:15 AM, Jacopo Cappellato<
> >> [hidden email]>  wrote:
> >>
> >>> The project doesn't have much control over the information published in
> >>> the wiki and we should not publish links in the official website that
> may
> >>> imply that these pages are official. In the past we had issues and
> >>> discussions around what was published in the official website and the
> >>> current website is the result of those.
> >>>
> >>> Jacopo
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Feb 10, 2014, at 11:24 AM, Jacques Le Roux<
> >>> [hidden email]>  wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> I think you have a point Nick,
> >>>>
> >>>> We could add those without expecting load issues on Confluence indeed.
> >>>>
> >>>> Jacques
> >>>>
> >>>> On Friday, February 07, 2014 4:06 PM, [hidden email] wrote
> >>>>> Pierre: "attract some more participation" -- exactly.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I did see a response about the original change to omit these from the
> >>>>> home page - I can't imagine that we have enough traffic to stress any
> >>>>> server.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If there is general agreement who can make the change?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 2/7/2014 3:53 AM, Pierre Smits wrote:
> >>>>>> I agree with the above.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Not only will it deliver on the marketing aspect, but it might also
> >>> attract
> >>>>>> some more participation.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Regards,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Pierre Smits
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> *ORRTIZ.COM<http://ORRTIZ.COM>*
> >>>>>> Services&   Solutions for Cloud-
> >>>>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> >>>>>> Services and Retail&   Trade
> >>>>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 12:37 PM, Jacques Le Roux<
> >>>>>> [hidden email]>   wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> That sounds a good marketing idea to me
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> This was a bit like that before,
> >>>>>>> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?view=revision&revision=925066
> >>>>>>> But has been moved down because of conflicting opinions. I don't
> >>> remember
> >>>>>>> clearly...
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> What are others opinions?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Jacques
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Wednesday, February 05, 2014 2:40 PM, [hidden email] wrote
> >>>>>>>> All,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Whenever I look at pretty much anything these days I look for a
> >>>>>>>> "clients" link to see who is using a product or service.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> If I'm looking to use a piece of software and review at the
> vendor's
> >>>>>>>> site I will often look to see who are the partners (integrators)
> are
> >>> --
> >>>>>>>> as a client I would be looking for some comfort level that the
> >>> product
> >>>>>>>> or service will well supported.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> For OFBiz this is hidden under the "documentation" tab, at the
> >>> bottom of
> >>>>>>>> that page, in small font and labelled "Users of Apache OFBiz".and
> >>>>>>>> "Apache OFBiz Service Providers". Documentation to me is just
> that, a
> >>>>>>>> list of user and technical documentation, white papers etc.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Could these two links to main navigation bar? I would suggest that
> >>> the
> >>>>>>>> main navigation is:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Home
> >>>>>>>> Download
> >>>>>>>> Community
> >>>>>>>> Service Providers
> >>>>>>>> Who is using OFBiz?
> >>>>>>>> Documentation
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Nick
> >>>
>
>

[Pierre Smits]

As for the marketing aspect, linking works both ways.

Looking at the homepage of OFBiz I see that marketing is done for various
websites . Beside the fact that there is a potential thread of violation of
the rights of others, it could be regarded as applying double standards.

Regards,

Pierre Smits

*ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com


On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 11:51 AM, Pierre Smits <[hidden email]>wrote:

> Having done a cursory review of websites of other Apache Projects I can
> state that we are not creating a precedent here.
>
> As for the possibility of potentially conveying the impression that the
> community or the ASF are officially supporting implementation and support
> providers this can be easily corrected with a statement at the top of the
> document(s). As for the remark regarding approving any content this can be
> said of anything posted in any document the project controls, e.g. mailing
> lists postings.
>
> Regarding violating trademark policies of ASF it is so that the foundation
> has sufficient means (and procedures) at its disposal to take corrective
> measures. If there are violations of such policies, then these should be
> addressed.
>
> Regards,
>
> Pierre Smits
>
> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> Services and Retail & Trade
> http://www.orrtiz.com
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 10:54 AM, Jacopo Cappellato <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>>
>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 3:40 PM, Nick Rosser <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> > So what's the final word on this?
>> >
>> > Seems like we have mostly "yeahs" for this change.
>>
>> This doesn't seem an accurate summary of the feedback received: Jacques
>> and Pierre expressed a positive feedback; Christian seems neutral; I am
>> against; no one else expressed an opinion yet.
>> It is really too early to come up to such a conclusion.
>>
>> > Can we get it done?
>>
>> I understand that companies are interested in getting free marketing (SEO
>> etc..) from independent and authoritative sources like the official OFBiz
>> site and the ASF in general, and this adds some pressure on the OFBiz PMC
>> and project. However, as I already stated, I will be against any changes,
>> e.g., adding a link on the "top menu", that may convey the impression that
>> the project officially supports or even approves any content on which there
>> is no control, e.g., the content of wiki documents.
>>
>> Specifically, the links you want to add in the top menu point to the
>> following documents:
>>
>>
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBIZ/Apache+OFBiz+Service+Providers
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBIZ/Apache+OFBiz+User+List
>>
>> for which there is no control or rules on who, what and how information
>> can be published, and there are links that potentially violate the
>> trademarks policy  of OFBIZ and ASF.
>> After a cursory review of the content of these documents I would be even
>> tempted to propose the removal of the links from the documentation page,
>> rather than adding them to the top menu (and I am a bit surprised to see
>> that a PMC member may be in favor of adding them there).
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Jacopo
>>
>> >
>> > Nick
>> >
>> > On 2/12/2014 5:45 AM, Pierre Smits wrote:
>> >> It shouldn't prove to difficult to have menu items in the menu bar of
>> the
>> >> website that directly link to pages in the wiki.
>> >>
>> >> Pierre Smits
>> >>
>> >> *ORRTIZ.COM<http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>> >> Services&  Solutions for Cloud-
>> >> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>> >> Services and Retail&  Trade
>> >> http://www.orrtiz.com
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 11:15 AM, Jacopo Cappellato<
>> >> [hidden email]>  wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> The project doesn't have much control over the information published
>> in
>> >>> the wiki and we should not publish links in the official website that
>> may
>> >>> imply that these pages are official. In the past we had issues and
>> >>> discussions around what was published in the official website and the
>> >>> current website is the result of those.
>> >>>
>> >>> Jacopo
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On Feb 10, 2014, at 11:24 AM, Jacques Le Roux<
>> >>> [hidden email]>  wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> I think you have a point Nick,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> We could add those without expecting load issues on Confluence
>> indeed.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Jacques
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Friday, February 07, 2014 4:06 PM, [hidden email] wrote
>> >>>>> Pierre: "attract some more participation" -- exactly.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> I did see a response about the original change to omit these from
>> the
>> >>>>> home page - I can't imagine that we have enough traffic to stress
>> any
>> >>>>> server.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> If there is general agreement who can make the change?
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On 2/7/2014 3:53 AM, Pierre Smits wrote:
>> >>>>>> I agree with the above.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Not only will it deliver on the marketing aspect, but it might also
>> >>> attract
>> >>>>>> some more participation.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Regards,
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Pierre Smits
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> *ORRTIZ.COM<http://ORRTIZ.COM>*
>> >>>>>> Services&   Solutions for Cloud-
>> >>>>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>> >>>>>> Services and Retail&   Trade
>> >>>>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 12:37 PM, Jacques Le Roux<
>> >>>>>> [hidden email]>   wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> That sounds a good marketing idea to me
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> This was a bit like that before,
>> >>>>>>> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?view=revision&revision=925066
>> >>>>>>> But has been moved down because of conflicting opinions. I don't
>> >>> remember
>> >>>>>>> clearly...
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> What are others opinions?
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Jacques
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> On Wednesday, February 05, 2014 2:40 PM, [hidden email]
>> >>>>>>>> All,
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Whenever I look at pretty much anything these days I look for a
>> >>>>>>>> "clients" link to see who is using a product or service.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> If I'm looking to use a piece of software and review at the
>> vendor's
>> >>>>>>>> site I will often look to see who are the partners (integrators)
>> are
>> >>> --
>> >>>>>>>> as a client I would be looking for some comfort level that the
>> >>> product
>> >>>>>>>> or service will well supported.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> For OFBiz this is hidden under the "documentation" tab, at the
>> >>> bottom of
>> >>>>>>>> that page, in small font and labelled "Users of Apache OFBiz".and
>> >>>>>>>> "Apache OFBiz Service Providers". Documentation to me is just
>> that, a
>> >>>>>>>> list of user and technical documentation, white papers etc.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Could these two links to main navigation bar? I would suggest
>> that
>> >>> the
>> >>>>>>>> main navigation is:
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Home
>> >>>>>>>> Download
>> >>>>>>>> Community
>> >>>>>>>> Service Providers
>> >>>>>>>> Who is using OFBiz?
>> >>>>>>>> Documentation
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Nick
>> >>>
>>
>>
>

[Nick Rosser-2]

OK, some interesting points being made. Although I truly believe that
for a bet-your-business solution like OFBiz having a list of users and
service providers is much more important than for "technical" based
projects. It certainly would be for me.

Pierre established that some of the other projects do have links to this
type of info -- and made some good points about being in favor of this
type of change.

Given that there are 3 in favor (me, Pierre, Jacques), 1 against
(Jacopo) and 1 neutral (Christian) -- what is the procedure for making a
decision on this change?

Anyone else in the community have any additional thoughts?

BTW: just to throw it out there -- would this change be easier to make
if we did not modify the primary navigation area and added the 2 links
to the "Resources and Tools" section?

Nick

On 2/18/2014 6:08 AM, Pierre Smits wrote:

> As for the marketing aspect, linking works both ways.
>
> Looking at the homepage of OFBiz I see that marketing is done for various
> websites . Beside the fact that there is a potential thread of violation of
> the rights of others, it could be regarded as applying double standards.
>
> Regards,
>
> Pierre Smits
>
> *ORRTIZ.COM<http://www.orrtiz.com>*
> Services&  Solutions for Cloud-
> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> Services and Retail&  Trade
> http://www.orrtiz.com
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 11:51 AM, Pierre Smits<[hidden email]>wrote:
>
>> Having done a cursory review of websites of other Apache Projects I can
>> state that we are not creating a precedent here.
>>
>> As for the possibility of potentially conveying the impression that the
>> community or the ASF are officially supporting implementation and support
>> providers this can be easily corrected with a statement at the top of the
>> document(s). As for the remark regarding approving any content this can be
>> said of anything posted in any document the project controls, e.g. mailing
>> lists postings.
>>
>> Regarding violating trademark policies of ASF it is so that the foundation
>> has sufficient means (and procedures) at its disposal to take corrective
>> measures. If there are violations of such policies, then these should be
>> addressed.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Pierre Smits
>>
>> *ORRTIZ.COM<http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>> Services&  Solutions for Cloud-
>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>> Services and Retail&  Trade
>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 10:54 AM, Jacopo Cappellato<
>> [hidden email]>  wrote:
>>
>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 3:40 PM, Nick Rosser<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>>>
>>>> So what's the final word on this?
>>>>
>>>> Seems like we have mostly "yeahs" for this change.
>>> This doesn't seem an accurate summary of the feedback received: Jacques
>>> and Pierre expressed a positive feedback; Christian seems neutral; I am
>>> against; no one else expressed an opinion yet.
>>> It is really too early to come up to such a conclusion.
>>>
>>>> Can we get it done?
>>> I understand that companies are interested in getting free marketing (SEO
>>> etc..) from independent and authoritative sources like the official OFBiz
>>> site and the ASF in general, and this adds some pressure on the OFBiz PMC
>>> and project. However, as I already stated, I will be against any changes,
>>> e.g., adding a link on the "top menu", that may convey the impression that
>>> the project officially supports or even approves any content on which there
>>> is no control, e.g., the content of wiki documents.
>>>
>>> Specifically, the links you want to add in the top menu point to the
>>> following documents:
>>>
>>>
>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBIZ/Apache+OFBiz+Service+Providers
>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBIZ/Apache+OFBiz+User+List
>>>
>>> for which there is no control or rules on who, what and how information
>>> can be published, and there are links that potentially violate the
>>> trademarks policy  of OFBIZ and ASF.
>>> After a cursory review of the content of these documents I would be even
>>> tempted to propose the removal of the links from the documentation page,
>>> rather than adding them to the top menu (and I am a bit surprised to see
>>> that a PMC member may be in favor of adding them there).
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Jacopo
>>>
>>>> Nick
>>>>
>>>> On 2/12/2014 5:45 AM, Pierre Smits wrote:
>>>>> It shouldn't prove to difficult to have menu items in the menu bar of
>>> the
>>>>> website that directly link to pages in the wiki.
>>>>>
>>>>> Pierre Smits
>>>>>
>>>>> *ORRTIZ.COM<http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>>>>> Services&   Solutions for Cloud-
>>>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>>>> Services and Retail&   Trade
>>>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 11:15 AM, Jacopo Cappellato<
>>>>> [hidden email]>   wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The project doesn't have much control over the information published
>>> in
>>>>>> the wiki and we should not publish links in the official website that
>>> may
>>>>>> imply that these pages are official. In the past we had issues and
>>>>>> discussions around what was published in the official website and the
>>>>>> current website is the result of those.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jacopo
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Feb 10, 2014, at 11:24 AM, Jacques Le Roux<
>>>>>> [hidden email]>   wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think you have a point Nick,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We could add those without expecting load issues on Confluence
>>> indeed.
>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Friday, February 07, 2014 4:06 PM, [hidden email] wrote
>>>>>>>> Pierre: "attract some more participation" -- exactly.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I did see a response about the original change to omit these from
>>> the
>>>>>>>> home page - I can't imagine that we have enough traffic to stress
>>> any
>>>>>>>> server.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If there is general agreement who can make the change?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 2/7/2014 3:53 AM, Pierre Smits wrote:
>>>>>>>>> I agree with the above.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Not only will it deliver on the marketing aspect, but it might also
>>>>>> attract
>>>>>>>>> some more participation.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Pierre Smits
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *ORRTIZ.COM<http://ORRTIZ.COM>*
>>>>>>>>> Services&    Solutions for Cloud-
>>>>>>>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>>>>>>>> Services and Retail&    Trade
>>>>>>>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 12:37 PM, Jacques Le Roux<
>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]>    wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> That sounds a good marketing idea to me
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This was a bit like that before,
>>>>>>>>>> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?view=revision&revision=925066
>>>>>>>>>> But has been moved down because of conflicting opinions. I don't
>>>>>> remember
>>>>>>>>>> clearly...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> What are others opinions?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, February 05, 2014 2:40 PM, [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>> All,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Whenever I look at pretty much anything these days I look for a
>>>>>>>>>>> "clients" link to see who is using a product or service.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> If I'm looking to use a piece of software and review at the
>>> vendor's
>>>>>>>>>>> site I will often look to see who are the partners (integrators)
>>> are
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> as a client I would be looking for some comfort level that the
>>>>>> product
>>>>>>>>>>> or service will well supported.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> For OFBiz this is hidden under the "documentation" tab, at the
>>>>>> bottom of
>>>>>>>>>>> that page, in small font and labelled "Users of Apache OFBiz".and
>>>>>>>>>>> "Apache OFBiz Service Providers". Documentation to me is just
>>> that, a
>>>>>>>>>>> list of user and technical documentation, white papers etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Could these two links to main navigation bar? I would suggest
>>> that
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> main navigation is:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Home
>>>>>>>>>>> Download
>>>>>>>>>>> Community
>>>>>>>>>>> Service Providers
>>>>>>>>>>> Who is using OFBiz?
>>>>>>>>>>> Documentation
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Nick
>>>

[Jacopo Cappellato-4]

On Feb 18, 2014, at 5:36 PM, Nick Rosser <[hidden email]> wrote:

> what is the procedure for making a decision on this change?

A commit is required to change the website and every committer can express a veto (-1) on every commit [*].

Jacopo

[*] https://www.apache.org/foundation/voting.html

[Ted Byers]

On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 11:36 AM, Nick Rosser <[hidden email]> wrote:

> OK, some interesting points being made. Although I truly believe that for
> a bet-your-business solution like OFBiz having a list of users and service
> providers is much more important than for "technical" based projects. It
> certainly would be for me.
>
> Pierre established that some of the other projects do have links to this
> type of info -- and made some good points about being in favor of this type
> of change.
>
> Given that there are 3 in favor (me, Pierre, Jacques), 1 against (Jacopo)
> and 1 neutral (Christian) -- what is the procedure for making a decision on
> this change?
>
> Anyone else in the community have any additional thoughts?
>
> I too would agree this is a good idea.  I am more likely to use a product

that is widely used, especially for this kind of product.  Who in his right
mind would bet his key business processes on a product like this if it is
not widely used?  But, contrary to what is suggested above, I apply that
consideration to all products, including especially primarily technical
products (e.g. number crunching libraries, compilers, &c.).  I am wary of
using a product that is used only by the developer, or team thereof, that
developed it.

If this can be provided on the website you're discussing, great.  If there
is some kind of administrative problem with doing that, then perhaps
someone can take the bull by the horns as it were and create a site that
provides it, and takes responsibility to add a link to it in, e.g. a sig to
all his/her email sent to this list.  The bottom line, here, is that it
ought no tbe necessary to resort to google just to find out who is using
OFBiz, how many such users there are, and who are the service providers who
help businesses use it.

Cheers

Ted

> BTW: just to throw it out there -- would this change be easier to make if
> we did not modify the primary navigation area and added the 2 links to the
> "Resources and Tools" section?
>
> Nick
>
>
> On 2/18/2014 6:08 AM, Pierre Smits wrote:
>
>> As for the marketing aspect, linking works both ways.
>>
>> Looking at the homepage of OFBiz I see that marketing is done for various
>> websites . Beside the fact that there is a potential thread of violation
>> of
>> the rights of others, it could be regarded as applying double standards.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Pierre Smits
>>
>> *ORRTIZ.COM<http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>> Services&  Solutions for Cloud-
>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>> Services and Retail&  Trade
>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 11:51 AM, Pierre Smits<[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>  Having done a cursory review of websites of other Apache Projects I can
>>> state that we are not creating a precedent here.
>>>
>>> As for the possibility of potentially conveying the impression that the
>>> community or the ASF are officially supporting implementation and support
>>> providers this can be easily corrected with a statement at the top of the
>>> document(s). As for the remark regarding approving any content this can
>>> be
>>> said of anything posted in any document the project controls, e.g.
>>> mailing
>>> lists postings.
>>>
>>> Regarding violating trademark policies of ASF it is so that the
>>> foundation
>>> has sufficient means (and procedures) at its disposal to take corrective
>>> measures. If there are violations of such policies, then these should be
>>> addressed.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Pierre Smits
>>>
>>> *ORRTIZ.COM<http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>>> Services&  Solutions for Cloud-
>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>> Services and Retail&  Trade
>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 10:54 AM, Jacopo Cappellato<
>>> [hidden email]>  wrote:
>>>
>>>  On Feb 17, 2014, at 3:40 PM, Nick Rosser<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  So what's the final word on this?
>>>>>
>>>>> Seems like we have mostly "yeahs" for this change.
>>>>>
>>>> This doesn't seem an accurate summary of the feedback received: Jacques
>>>> and Pierre expressed a positive feedback; Christian seems neutral; I am
>>>> against; no one else expressed an opinion yet.
>>>> It is really too early to come up to such a conclusion.
>>>>
>>>>  Can we get it done?
>>>>>
>>>> I understand that companies are interested in getting free marketing
>>>> (SEO
>>>> etc..) from independent and authoritative sources like the official
>>>> OFBiz
>>>> site and the ASF in general, and this adds some pressure on the OFBiz
>>>> PMC
>>>> and project. However, as I already stated, I will be against any
>>>> changes,
>>>> e.g., adding a link on the "top menu", that may convey the impression
>>>> that
>>>> the project officially supports or even approves any content on which
>>>> there
>>>> is no control, e.g., the content of wiki documents.
>>>>
>>>> Specifically, the links you want to add in the top menu point to the
>>>> following documents:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBIZ/
>>>> Apache+OFBiz+Service+Providers
>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBIZ/
>>>> Apache+OFBiz+User+List
>>>>
>>>> for which there is no control or rules on who, what and how information
>>>> can be published, and there are links that potentially violate the
>>>> trademarks policy  of OFBIZ and ASF.
>>>> After a cursory review of the content of these documents I would be even
>>>> tempted to propose the removal of the links from the documentation page,
>>>> rather than adding them to the top menu (and I am a bit surprised to see
>>>> that a PMC member may be in favor of adding them there).
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Jacopo
>>>>
>>>>  Nick
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2/12/2014 5:45 AM, Pierre Smits wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> It shouldn't prove to difficult to have menu items in the menu bar of
>>>>>>
>>>>> the
>>>>
>>>>> website that directly link to pages in the wiki.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Pierre Smits
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *ORRTIZ.COM<http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>>>>>> Services&   Solutions for Cloud-
>>>>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>>>>> Services and Retail&   Trade
>>>>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 11:15 AM, Jacopo Cappellato<
>>>>>> [hidden email]>   wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  The project doesn't have much control over the information published
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> in
>>>>
>>>>> the wiki and we should not publish links in the official website that
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> may
>>>>
>>>>> imply that these pages are official. In the past we had issues and
>>>>>>> discussions around what was published in the official website and the
>>>>>>> current website is the result of those.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jacopo
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Feb 10, 2014, at 11:24 AM, Jacques Le Roux<
>>>>>>> [hidden email]>   wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  I think you have a point Nick,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We could add those without expecting load issues on Confluence
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> indeed.
>>>>
>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Friday, February 07, 2014 4:06 PM, [hidden email] wrote
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Pierre: "attract some more participation" -- exactly.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I did see a response about the original change to omit these from
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>
>>>>> home page - I can't imagine that we have enough traffic to stress
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> any
>>>>
>>>>> server.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If there is general agreement who can make the change?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 2/7/2014 3:53 AM, Pierre Smits wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I agree with the above.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Not only will it deliver on the marketing aspect, but it might
>>>>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> attract
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> some more participation.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Pierre Smits
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> *ORRTIZ.COM<http://ORRTIZ.COM>*
>>>>>>>>>> Services&    Solutions for Cloud-
>>>>>>>>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>>>>>>>>> Services and Retail&    Trade
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 12:37 PM, Jacques Le Roux<
>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]>    wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>  That sounds a good marketing idea to me
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> This was a bit like that before,
>>>>>>>>>>> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?view=revision&revision=925066
>>>>>>>>>>> But has been moved down because of conflicting opinions. I don't
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> remember
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> clearly...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> What are others opinions?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, February 05, 2014 2:40 PM, [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> All,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Whenever I look at pretty much anything these days I look for a
>>>>>>>>>>>> "clients" link to see who is using a product or service.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> If I'm looking to use a piece of software and review at the
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> vendor's
>>>>
>>>>> site I will often look to see who are the partners (integrators)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> as a client I would be looking for some comfort level that the
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> product
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> or service will well supported.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> For OFBiz this is hidden under the "documentation" tab, at the
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> bottom of
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> that page, in small font and labelled "Users of Apache OFBiz".and
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Apache OFBiz Service Providers". Documentation to me is just
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> that, a
>>>>
>>>>> list of user and technical documentation, white papers etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Could these two links to main navigation bar? I would suggest
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>
>>>>> the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> main navigation is:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Home
>>>>>>>>>>>> Download
>>>>>>>>>>>> Community
>>>>>>>>>>>> Service Providers
>>>>>>>>>>>> Who is using OFBiz?
>>>>>>>>>>>> Documentation
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Nick
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>

--
R.E.(Ted) Byers, Ph.D.,Ed.D.
[hidden email]
CTO
Merchant Services Corp.
17665 Leslie st., unit 30
Newmarket , Ontario
L3Y 3E3

[Pierre Smits]

Actually, the statement 'and every committer can express a veto (-1) on
every commit' by Jacopo is incorrect. Committers cannot veto. The document
referenced states no such thing.

Pierre Smits

*ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com


On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 6:15 PM, Jacopo Cappellato <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Feb 18, 2014, at 5:36 PM, Nick Rosser <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > what is the procedure for making a decision on this change?
>
> A commit is required to change the website and every committer can express
> a veto (-1) on every commit [*].
>
> Jacopo
>
> [*] https://www.apache.org/foundation/voting.html
>
>

[Jacques Le Roux]

Le 18/02/2014 10:54, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
> On Feb 17, 2014, at 3:40 PM, Nick Rosser <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> So what's the final word on this?
>>
>> Seems like we have mostly "yeahs" for this change.
> This doesn't seem an accurate summary of the feedback received: Jacques and Pierre expressed a positive feedback; Christian seems neutral; I am against; no one else expressed an opinion yet.
> It is really too early to come up to such a conclusion.
I did not express a positive feedback, I simply noted that Nick was
right about not being a load issue. So basically I'm still neutral.
>> Can we get it done?
> I understand that companies are interested in getting free marketing (SEO etc..) from independent and authoritative sources like the official OFBiz site and the ASF in general, and this adds some pressure on the OFBiz PMC and project. However, as I already stated, I will be against any changes, e.g., adding a link on the "top menu", that may convey the impression that the project officially supports or even approves any content on which there is no control, e.g., the content of wiki documents.
I don't agree  that we (PMC) have no control on the wiki. I monitor any
change on Confluence and when I disagree I react.
> Specifically, the links you want to add in the top menu point to the following documents:
>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBIZ/Apache+OFBiz+Service+Providers
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBIZ/Apache+OFBiz+User+List
>
> for which there is no control or rules on who, what and how information can be published, and there are links that potentially violate the trademarks policy  of OFBIZ and ASF.
> After a cursory review of the content of these documents I would be even tempted to propose the removal of the links from the documentation page, rather than adding them to the top menu (and I am a bit surprised to see that a PMC member may be in favor of adding them there).

Please could you point the issues you see there? I believe we should
trust the community and if there are issues on these pages we should fix
those issues, this is our duty.

Jacques

>
> Regards,
>
> Jacopo
>
>> Nick
>>
>> On 2/12/2014 5:45 AM, Pierre Smits wrote:
>>> It shouldn't prove to difficult to have menu items in the menu bar of the
>>> website that directly link to pages in the wiki.
>>>
>>> Pierre Smits
>>>
>>> *ORRTIZ.COM<http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>>> Services&  Solutions for Cloud-
>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>> Services and Retail&  Trade
>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 11:15 AM, Jacopo Cappellato<
>>> [hidden email]>  wrote:
>>>
>>>> The project doesn't have much control over the information published in
>>>> the wiki and we should not publish links in the official website that may
>>>> imply that these pages are official. In the past we had issues and
>>>> discussions around what was published in the official website and the
>>>> current website is the result of those.
>>>>
>>>> Jacopo
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Feb 10, 2014, at 11:24 AM, Jacques Le Roux<
>>>> [hidden email]>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I think you have a point Nick,
>>>>>
>>>>> We could add those without expecting load issues on Confluence indeed.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>
>>>>> On Friday, February 07, 2014 4:06 PM, [hidden email] wrote
>>>>>> Pierre: "attract some more participation" -- exactly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I did see a response about the original change to omit these from the
>>>>>> home page - I can't imagine that we have enough traffic to stress any
>>>>>> server.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If there is general agreement who can make the change?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2/7/2014 3:53 AM, Pierre Smits wrote:
>>>>>>> I agree with the above.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not only will it deliver on the marketing aspect, but it might also
>>>> attract
>>>>>>> some more participation.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Pierre Smits
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *ORRTIZ.COM<http://ORRTIZ.COM>*
>>>>>>> Services&   Solutions for Cloud-
>>>>>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>>>>>> Services and Retail&   Trade
>>>>>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 12:37 PM, Jacques Le Roux<
>>>>>>> [hidden email]>   wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That sounds a good marketing idea to me
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This was a bit like that before,
>>>>>>>> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?view=revision&revision=925066
>>>>>>>> But has been moved down because of conflicting opinions. I don't
>>>> remember
>>>>>>>> clearly...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What are others opinions?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, February 05, 2014 2:40 PM, [hidden email] wrote
>>>>>>>>> All,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Whenever I look at pretty much anything these days I look for a
>>>>>>>>> "clients" link to see who is using a product or service.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If I'm looking to use a piece of software and review at the vendor's
>>>>>>>>> site I will often look to see who are the partners (integrators) are
>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> as a client I would be looking for some comfort level that the
>>>> product
>>>>>>>>> or service will well supported.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> For OFBiz this is hidden under the "documentation" tab, at the
>>>> bottom of
>>>>>>>>> that page, in small font and labelled "Users of Apache OFBiz".and
>>>>>>>>> "Apache OFBiz Service Providers". Documentation to me is just that, a
>>>>>>>>> list of user and technical documentation, white papers etc.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Could these two links to main navigation bar? I would suggest that
>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> main navigation is:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Home
>>>>>>>>> Download
>>>>>>>>> Community
>>>>>>>>> Service Providers
>>>>>>>>> Who is using OFBiz?
>>>>>>>>> Documentation
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Nick
>
>

[Jacques Le Roux]

If a veto is justified, a commiter can do it:
https://www.apache.org/foundation/voting.html#Veto
This section speak about code, it can be generalised to any document a
committer has to commit.

But I think we should rather try to find a consensus...

In the past we decided to remove direct links to major contributing
companies from the site main page because it was unfair for other
companies. But I see no problems linking those 2 pages if they respect
the Apache way (intentionally vague since I don't know if there are
issues yet as Jacopo mentionned)

Jacques

Le 18/02/2014 21:53, Pierre Smits a écrit :

> Actually, the statement 'and every committer can express a veto (-1) on
> every commit' by Jacopo is incorrect. Committers cannot veto. The document
> referenced states no such thing.
>
> Pierre Smits
>
> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> Services and Retail & Trade
> http://www.orrtiz.com
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 6:15 PM, Jacopo Cappellato <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On Feb 18, 2014, at 5:36 PM, Nick Rosser <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> what is the procedure for making a decision on this change?
>> A commit is required to change the website and every committer can express
>> a veto (-1) on every commit [*].
>>
>> Jacopo
>>
>> [*] https://www.apache.org/foundation/voting.html
>>
>>

[hans_bakker]

add me to the +1 list.

we are currently re-implementing the ofbiz.info website which has a
provider map and user map and is available at our staging server:
http://ofbizinfo.ofbizdemo.com/control/providers
http://ofbizinfo.ofbizdemo.com/control/users

we will get back online in a couple of weeks....

Regards,
Hans

On 18/02/14 23:36, Nick Rosser wrote:

> OK, some interesting points being made. Although I truly believe that
> for a bet-your-business solution like OFBiz having a list of users and
> service providers is much more important than for "technical" based
> projects. It certainly would be for me.
>
> Pierre established that some of the other projects do have links to
> this type of info -- and made some good points about being in favor of
> this type of change.
>
> Given that there are 3 in favor (me, Pierre, Jacques), 1 against
> (Jacopo) and 1 neutral (Christian) -- what is the procedure for making
> a decision on this change?
>
> Anyone else in the community have any additional thoughts?
>
> BTW: just to throw it out there -- would this change be easier to make
> if we did not modify the primary navigation area and added the 2 links
> to the "Resources and Tools" section?
>
> Nick
>
> On 2/18/2014 6:08 AM, Pierre Smits wrote:
>> As for the marketing aspect, linking works both ways.
>>
>> Looking at the homepage of OFBiz I see that marketing is done for
>> various
>> websites . Beside the fact that there is a potential thread of
>> violation of
>> the rights of others, it could be regarded as applying double standards.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Pierre Smits
>>
>> *ORRTIZ.COM<http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>> Services&  Solutions for Cloud-
>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>> Services and Retail&  Trade
>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 11:51 AM, Pierre
>> Smits<[hidden email]>wrote:
>>
>>> Having done a cursory review of websites of other Apache Projects I can
>>> state that we are not creating a precedent here.
>>>
>>> As for the possibility of potentially conveying the impression that the
>>> community or the ASF are officially supporting implementation and
>>> support
>>> providers this can be easily corrected with a statement at the top
>>> of the
>>> document(s). As for the remark regarding approving any content this
>>> can be
>>> said of anything posted in any document the project controls, e.g.
>>> mailing
>>> lists postings.
>>>
>>> Regarding violating trademark policies of ASF it is so that the
>>> foundation
>>> has sufficient means (and procedures) at its disposal to take
>>> corrective
>>> measures. If there are violations of such policies, then these
>>> should be
>>> addressed.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Pierre Smits
>>>
>>> *ORRTIZ.COM<http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>>> Services&  Solutions for Cloud-
>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>> Services and Retail&  Trade
>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 10:54 AM, Jacopo Cappellato<
>>> [hidden email]>  wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 3:40 PM, Nick Rosser<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> So what's the final word on this?
>>>>>
>>>>> Seems like we have mostly "yeahs" for this change.
>>>> This doesn't seem an accurate summary of the feedback received:
>>>> Jacques
>>>> and Pierre expressed a positive feedback; Christian seems neutral;
>>>> I am
>>>> against; no one else expressed an opinion yet.
>>>> It is really too early to come up to such a conclusion.
>>>>
>>>>> Can we get it done?
>>>> I understand that companies are interested in getting free
>>>> marketing (SEO
>>>> etc..) from independent and authoritative sources like the official
>>>> OFBiz
>>>> site and the ASF in general, and this adds some pressure on the
>>>> OFBiz PMC
>>>> and project. However, as I already stated, I will be against any
>>>> changes,
>>>> e.g., adding a link on the "top menu", that may convey the
>>>> impression that
>>>> the project officially supports or even approves any content on
>>>> which there
>>>> is no control, e.g., the content of wiki documents.
>>>>
>>>> Specifically, the links you want to add in the top menu point to the
>>>> following documents:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBIZ/Apache+OFBiz+Service+Providers 
>>>>
>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBIZ/Apache+OFBiz+User+List 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> for which there is no control or rules on who, what and how
>>>> information
>>>> can be published, and there are links that potentially violate the
>>>> trademarks policy  of OFBIZ and ASF.
>>>> After a cursory review of the content of these documents I would be
>>>> even
>>>> tempted to propose the removal of the links from the documentation
>>>> page,
>>>> rather than adding them to the top menu (and I am a bit surprised
>>>> to see
>>>> that a PMC member may be in favor of adding them there).
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Jacopo
>>>>
>>>>> Nick
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2/12/2014 5:45 AM, Pierre Smits wrote:
>>>>>> It shouldn't prove to difficult to have menu items in the menu
>>>>>> bar of
>>>> the
>>>>>> website that directly link to pages in the wiki.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Pierre Smits
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *ORRTIZ.COM<http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>>>>>> Services&   Solutions for Cloud-
>>>>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>>>>> Services and Retail&   Trade
>>>>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 11:15 AM, Jacopo Cappellato<
>>>>>> [hidden email]>   wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The project doesn't have much control over the information
>>>>>>> published
>>>> in
>>>>>>> the wiki and we should not publish links in the official website
>>>>>>> that
>>>> may
>>>>>>> imply that these pages are official. In the past we had issues and
>>>>>>> discussions around what was published in the official website
>>>>>>> and the
>>>>>>> current website is the result of those.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jacopo
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Feb 10, 2014, at 11:24 AM, Jacques Le Roux<
>>>>>>> [hidden email]>   wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I think you have a point Nick,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We could add those without expecting load issues on Confluence
>>>> indeed.
>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Friday, February 07, 2014 4:06 PM, [hidden email] wrote
>>>>>>>>> Pierre: "attract some more participation" -- exactly.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I did see a response about the original change to omit these from
>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> home page - I can't imagine that we have enough traffic to stress
>>>> any
>>>>>>>>> server.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If there is general agreement who can make the change?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 2/7/2014 3:53 AM, Pierre Smits wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> I agree with the above.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Not only will it deliver on the marketing aspect, but it
>>>>>>>>>> might also
>>>>>>> attract
>>>>>>>>>> some more participation.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Pierre Smits
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> *ORRTIZ.COM<http://ORRTIZ.COM>*
>>>>>>>>>> Services&    Solutions for Cloud-
>>>>>>>>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>>>>>>>>> Services and Retail&    Trade
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 12:37 PM, Jacques Le Roux<
>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]>    wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> That sounds a good marketing idea to me
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> This was a bit like that before,
>>>>>>>>>>> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?view=revision&revision=925066
>>>>>>>>>>> But has been moved down because of conflicting opinions. I
>>>>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>> remember
>>>>>>>>>>> clearly...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> What are others opinions?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, February 05, 2014 2:40 PM,
>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>> All,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Whenever I look at pretty much anything these days I look
>>>>>>>>>>>> for a
>>>>>>>>>>>> "clients" link to see who is using a product or service.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> If I'm looking to use a piece of software and review at the
>>>> vendor's
>>>>>>>>>>>> site I will often look to see who are the partners
>>>>>>>>>>>> (integrators)
>>>> are
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> as a client I would be looking for some comfort level that the
>>>>>>> product
>>>>>>>>>>>> or service will well supported.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> For OFBiz this is hidden under the "documentation" tab, at the
>>>>>>> bottom of
>>>>>>>>>>>> that page, in small font and labelled "Users of Apache
>>>>>>>>>>>> OFBiz".and
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Apache OFBiz Service Providers". Documentation to me is just
>>>> that, a
>>>>>>>>>>>> list of user and technical documentation, white papers etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Could these two links to main navigation bar? I would suggest
>>>> that
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> main navigation is:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Home
>>>>>>>>>>>> Download
>>>>>>>>>>>> Community
>>>>>>>>>>>> Service Providers
>>>>>>>>>>>> Who is using OFBiz?
>>>>>>>>>>>> Documentation
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Nick
>>>>

[Jacopo Cappellato-4]

On Feb 18, 2014, at 11:42 PM, Jacques Le Roux <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Please could you point the issues you see there?

The information published in the OFBiz website is official and must be endorsed and approved by the OFBiz PMC before its publication.
The information in the Wiki is not; specifically, we do not have clear rules that govern the "users" and "providers" list: I can add/move my company to the top, someone could decide that only companies with committers can appear there (I see now that there are several companies in the page that mention the term "contributors" even if this is not a role assigned by the OFBiz PMC), I see links to external sites that the ASF is monitoring for violations to the ASF and OFBiz trademarks, in general I see pages that are a mess and clearly they can't be officially endorsed by the project.

> I believe we should trust the community and if there are issues on these pages we should fix those issues, this is our duty.

It is good to allocate some space to the community to freely publish this kind of information, but this doesn't mean that the PMC has to endorse them or fix them.

Jacopo