OfBiz e-commerce customization

[Vadim Eisenberg]

Hello BJ and other OfBiz developers,

I was not subscribed to the mailing list so I did not receive the answer
of BJ to my previous message -
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/ofbiz-user/201009.mbox/%3C4C7FFC99.9020109@...%3E 
. Because of that I cannot post a response to it. Secondly, I used a wrong
MIME in my previous message, so all the bullets and formatting were
missing. I am reposting the original message below in the right format
(any additional comments/opinions are welcome). In addition, my response
to BJ follows. Sorry for the mess I created.

Hi BJ,

Thank you for your prompt response. I think I've got the general idea. I
still would like to ask a question about learning OfBiz:
The three volumes of the data model book comprise about 1700 pages
together. Should I use the book as a reference or do I have to read all
the three volumes before starting my work on OfBiz ? Which parts of the
book are required before I begin my work ?

Thanks & Regards,
Vadim




My original message:
===========================================================================================================
Hello OfBiz developers,

My name is Vadim Eisenberg and I work at IBM Research - Haifa, on the
UniversAAL project - http://universaal.org/. It is a consortium European
project. Its goal is to create a platform for applications, services and
devices for Ambient Assisted Living, that is a kind of "Smart Home" for
senior citizens. As part of the platform, we - several software developers
- have to develop an e-commerce site - uStore
http://universaal.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=9&Itemid=21 
. This site would be a one-stop-shop for software, services and devices
for Ambient Assisted Living.

We consider using OfBiz for implementation of uStore.

I would like to ask you several questions about the features we want to
implement. I would be glad to hear any information you can tell me about
how hard could it be for us to implement these features. Please note that
we have no prior experience with OfBiz.

Any your thoughts, intuition, experience, advice about OfBiz/business
programming are welcome.

In particular, the following information would help us very much :
How much work should be done by us in order to implement all the features
that follow (Person/Months, Person/Years, for skilled OfBiz
developers/general software engineers). Which part would be to use
existing "extension" mechanisms of OfBiz and which part would be actually
changing the OfBiz code ? Here your intuition/experience from related
projects is welcome, we do not need exact numbers, just a ballpark.
How much time the general software developers have to learn about OfBiz
and how skilled in OfBiz  they should become in order to implement these
features

        E-commerce website features:
Using e-commerce site for selling software (such as AppStore of iPhone)
and downloadable files in general (video, presentations of courses etc.).
Here the issue is to manage links where the bought files could be
downloaded. The idea is to prevent a situation in which buyers would buy a
software application, receive a link to it for downloading and share the
link afterwards with anybody they want, so anybody would be able to
download the application without paying for it.
Using e-commerce site for selling services (human services and others)
Extending e-commerce site with general widgets, such as calendar, clock,
map, a widget for downloading files, etc., and integrating the widgets
with the OfBiz

Integration with other websites/services:
Integrating an e-commerce website with another (non-OfBiz backed) site -
adding possibility for sellers to add products to the e-commerce site via
the other site, to see customer feedback provided on the e-commerce site
via the other site
Integrating an e-commerce website with another (possibly non-OfBiz)
e-commerce website, such as eBay/Amazon. What are the current
possibilities of integration with eBay ?
Integrating an e-commerce website with post/delivery services/sites

Adding advanced features:
Adding support for signing business contracts between service consumers
and service providers, between providers of different services etc. via
the e-commerce site
Adding support for applying capability/requirement model, such as  
JSR-124,  (for example  for matching between customer's requirements and
capabilities of software, devices and services). The customer or software
agent on behalf of the customer could provide his requirements as part of
his account information, and the e-commerce solution would match between
the products (according to their capabilities) and the requirements of the
customers.
Has OfBiz a recommendation engine (providing recommendations to a user
based on his activity - searches, purchases, reviews etc.) ? If no, how
hard would it be to add it ?
Can the OfBiz-based e-commerce web site be presented by browsers of smart
phones  ? How hard would it be to enable it ?
Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the requirements
of the customer
Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the geolocation of
the customer
Adding support for customization of products/services and changes in the
prices according to the customization during the purchase process
Adding support for a composition solution of hardware, software and human
services (bundles, kits). A seller could compose a new product by
combining several existing products
Adding support for manual approval of products by site administrators
before submission of the products to the e-commerce site
Adding support for managing versions of the software applications that are
sold on the e-commerce website

Sorry for so many questions and sorry if some of them are out of context.

Best Regards,
Vadim
-------------------------------
Vadim Eisenberg
IT for Healthcare & Life Sciences
IBM Research - Haifa
 

[BJ Freeman]

the first volume is the one you will use the most for understanding the
data model used by ofbiz. It explains things that are not explained any
other place. I suggest at least a cursory review so as you need info you
know where to go.
the second volume deals with specific industries and has lots of
modeling Ideas you may be able to use.
the third volume focuses more on business logic. though this was not
used in the original design it has some good things to be considered.

the most accurate modeling can be found in the webtools of the version
of ofbiz you are using.
https://demo-trunk.ofbiz.apache.org/webtools/control/entitymaint
or
https://demo-trunk.ofbiz.apache.org/webtools/control/entityref

and for documentation
http://ofbiz.apache.org/
and click on the documentation link.

=========================
BJ Freeman  <http://bjfreeman.elance.com>
Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation  <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
Specialtymarket.com  <http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist

Chat  Y! messenger: bjfr33man


Vadim Eisenberg sent the following on 9/3/2010 10:32 AM:

> Hello BJ and other OfBiz developers,
>
> I was not subscribed to the mailing list so I did not receive the answer
> of BJ to my previous message -
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/ofbiz-user/201009.mbox/%3C4C7FFC99.9020109@...%3E
> . Because of that I cannot post a response to it. Secondly, I used a wrong
> MIME in my previous message, so all the bullets and formatting were
> missing. I am reposting the original message below in the right format
> (any additional comments/opinions are welcome). In addition, my response
> to BJ follows. Sorry for the mess I created.
>
> Hi BJ,
>
> Thank you for your prompt response. I think I've got the general idea. I
> still would like to ask a question about learning OfBiz:
> The three volumes of the data model book comprise about 1700 pages
> together. Should I use the book as a reference or do I have to read all
> the three volumes before starting my work on OfBiz ? Which parts of the
> book are required before I begin my work ?
>
> Thanks&  Regards,
> Vadim
>
>
>
>
> My original message:
> ===========================================================================================================
> Hello OfBiz developers,
>
> My name is Vadim Eisenberg and I work at IBM Research - Haifa, on the
> UniversAAL project - http://universaal.org/. It is a consortium European
> project. Its goal is to create a platform for applications, services and
> devices for Ambient Assisted Living, that is a kind of "Smart Home" for
> senior citizens. As part of the platform, we - several software developers
> - have to develop an e-commerce site - uStore
> http://universaal.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=9&Itemid=21
> . This site would be a one-stop-shop for software, services and devices
> for Ambient Assisted Living.
>
> We consider using OfBiz for implementation of uStore.
>
> I would like to ask you several questions about the features we want to
> implement. I would be glad to hear any information you can tell me about
> how hard could it be for us to implement these features. Please note that
> we have no prior experience with OfBiz.
>
> Any your thoughts, intuition, experience, advice about OfBiz/business
> programming are welcome.
>
> In particular, the following information would help us very much :
> How much work should be done by us in order to implement all the features
> that follow (Person/Months, Person/Years, for skilled OfBiz
> developers/general software engineers). Which part would be to use
> existing "extension" mechanisms of OfBiz and which part would be actually
> changing the OfBiz code ? Here your intuition/experience from related
> projects is welcome, we do not need exact numbers, just a ballpark.
> How much time the general software developers have to learn about OfBiz
> and how skilled in OfBiz  they should become in order to implement these
> features
>
>          E-commerce website features:
> Using e-commerce site for selling software (such as AppStore of iPhone)
> and downloadable files in general (video, presentations of courses etc.).
> Here the issue is to manage links where the bought files could be
> downloaded. The idea is to prevent a situation in which buyers would buy a
> software application, receive a link to it for downloading and share the
> link afterwards with anybody they want, so anybody would be able to
> download the application without paying for it.
> Using e-commerce site for selling services (human services and others)
> Extending e-commerce site with general widgets, such as calendar, clock,
> map, a widget for downloading files, etc., and integrating the widgets
> with the OfBiz
>
> Integration with other websites/services:
> Integrating an e-commerce website with another (non-OfBiz backed) site -
> adding possibility for sellers to add products to the e-commerce site via
> the other site, to see customer feedback provided on the e-commerce site
> via the other site
> Integrating an e-commerce website with another (possibly non-OfBiz)
> e-commerce website, such as eBay/Amazon. What are the current
> possibilities of integration with eBay ?
> Integrating an e-commerce website with post/delivery services/sites
>
> Adding advanced features:
> Adding support for signing business contracts between service consumers
> and service providers, between providers of different services etc. via
> the e-commerce site
> Adding support for applying capability/requirement model, such as
> JSR-124,  (for example  for matching between customer's requirements and
> capabilities of software, devices and services). The customer or software
> agent on behalf of the customer could provide his requirements as part of
> his account information, and the e-commerce solution would match between
> the products (according to their capabilities) and the requirements of the
> customers.
> Has OfBiz a recommendation engine (providing recommendations to a user
> based on his activity - searches, purchases, reviews etc.) ? If no, how
> hard would it be to add it ?
> Can the OfBiz-based e-commerce web site be presented by browsers of smart
> phones  ? How hard would it be to enable it ?
> Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the requirements
> of the customer
> Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the geolocation of
> the customer
> Adding support for customization of products/services and changes in the
> prices according to the customization during the purchase process
> Adding support for a composition solution of hardware, software and human
> services (bundles, kits). A seller could compose a new product by
> combining several existing products
> Adding support for manual approval of products by site administrators
> before submission of the products to the e-commerce site
> Adding support for managing versions of the software applications that are
> sold on the e-commerce website
>
> Sorry for so many questions and sorry if some of them are out of context.
>
> Best Regards,
> Vadim
> -------------------------------
> Vadim Eisenberg
> IT for Healthcare&  Life Sciences
> IBM Research - Haifa
>
>
>

[Vadim Eisenberg]

Thank you, BJ !

Best Regards,
Vadim
-------------------------------
Vadim Eisenberg
IT for Healthcare & Life Sciences
IBM Research - Haifa


BJ Freeman <[hidden email]> wrote on 03/09/2010 08:53:17 PM:

> From:
>
> BJ Freeman <[hidden email]>
>
> To:
>
> [hidden email]
>
> Date:
>
> 03/09/2010 08:54 PM
>
> Subject:
>
> Re: OfBiz e-commerce customization
>
> the first volume is the one you will use the most for understanding the
> data model used by ofbiz. It explains things that are not explained any
> other place. I suggest at least a cursory review so as you need info you

> know where to go.
> the second volume deals with specific industries and has lots of
> modeling Ideas you may be able to use.
> the third volume focuses more on business logic. though this was not
> used in the original design it has some good things to be considered.
>
> the most accurate modeling can be found in the webtools of the version
> of ofbiz you are using.
> https://demo-trunk.ofbiz.apache.org/webtools/control/entitymaint
> or
> https://demo-trunk.ofbiz.apache.org/webtools/control/entityref
>
> and for documentation
> http://ofbiz.apache.org/
> and click on the documentation link.
>
> =========================
> BJ Freeman  <http://bjfreeman.elance.com>
> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation  <http://
> www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
> Specialtymarket.com  <http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>
> Chat  Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>
>
> Vadim Eisenberg sent the following on 9/3/2010 10:32 AM:
> > Hello BJ and other OfBiz developers,
> >
> > I was not subscribed to the mailing list so I did not receive the

answer
> > of BJ to my previous message -
> > <a href="http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/ofbiz-user/201009.mbox/%">http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/ofbiz-user/201009.mbox/%
> [hidden email]%3E
> > . Because of that I cannot post a response to it. Secondly, I used a
wrong
> > MIME in my previous message, so all the bullets and formatting were
> > missing. I am reposting the original message below in the right format
> > (any additional comments/opinions are welcome). In addition, my
response
> > to BJ follows. Sorry for the mess I created.
> >
> > Hi BJ,
> >
> > Thank you for your prompt response. I think I've got the general idea.
I
> > still would like to ask a question about learning OfBiz:
> > The three volumes of the data model book comprise about 1700 pages
> > together. Should I use the book as a reference or do I have to read
all
> > the three volumes before starting my work on OfBiz ? Which parts of
the

> > book are required before I begin my work ?
> >
> > Thanks&  Regards,
> > Vadim
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > My original message:
> >
>

===========================================================================================================
> > Hello OfBiz developers,
> >
> > My name is Vadim Eisenberg and I work at IBM Research - Haifa, on the
> > UniversAAL project - http://universaal.org/. It is a consortium
European
> > project. Its goal is to create a platform for applications, services
and
> > devices for Ambient Assisted Living, that is a kind of "Smart Home"
for
> > senior citizens. As part of the platform, we - several software
developers
> > - have to develop an e-commerce site - uStore
> > http://universaal.org/index.php?
> option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=9&Itemid=21
> > . This site would be a one-stop-shop for software, services and
devices
> > for Ambient Assisted Living.
> >
> > We consider using OfBiz for implementation of uStore.
> >
> > I would like to ask you several questions about the features we want
to
> > implement. I would be glad to hear any information you can tell me
about
> > how hard could it be for us to implement these features. Please note
that
> > we have no prior experience with OfBiz.
> >
> > Any your thoughts, intuition, experience, advice about OfBiz/business
> > programming are welcome.
> >
> > In particular, the following information would help us very much :
> > How much work should be done by us in order to implement all the
features
> > that follow (Person/Months, Person/Years, for skilled OfBiz
> > developers/general software engineers). Which part would be to use
> > existing "extension" mechanisms of OfBiz and which part would be
actually
> > changing the OfBiz code ? Here your intuition/experience from related
> > projects is welcome, we do not need exact numbers, just a ballpark.
> > How much time the general software developers have to learn about
OfBiz
> > and how skilled in OfBiz  they should become in order to implement
these
> > features
> >
> >          E-commerce website features:
> > Using e-commerce site for selling software (such as AppStore of
iPhone)
> > and downloadable files in general (video, presentations of courses
etc.).
> > Here the issue is to manage links where the bought files could be
> > downloaded. The idea is to prevent a situation in which buyers would
buy a
> > software application, receive a link to it for downloading and share
the
> > link afterwards with anybody they want, so anybody would be able to
> > download the application without paying for it.
> > Using e-commerce site for selling services (human services and others)
> > Extending e-commerce site with general widgets, such as calendar,
clock,
> > map, a widget for downloading files, etc., and integrating the widgets
> > with the OfBiz
> >
> > Integration with other websites/services:
> > Integrating an e-commerce website with another (non-OfBiz backed) site
-
> > adding possibility for sellers to add products to the e-commerce site
via
> > the other site, to see customer feedback provided on the e-commerce
site
> > via the other site
> > Integrating an e-commerce website with another (possibly non-OfBiz)
> > e-commerce website, such as eBay/Amazon. What are the current
> > possibilities of integration with eBay ?
> > Integrating an e-commerce website with post/delivery services/sites
> >
> > Adding advanced features:
> > Adding support for signing business contracts between service
consumers
> > and service providers, between providers of different services etc.
via
> > the e-commerce site
> > Adding support for applying capability/requirement model, such as
> > JSR-124,  (for example  for matching between customer's requirements
and
> > capabilities of software, devices and services). The customer or
software
> > agent on behalf of the customer could provide his requirements as part
of
> > his account information, and the e-commerce solution would match
between
> > the products (according to their capabilities) and the requirements of
the
> > customers.
> > Has OfBiz a recommendation engine (providing recommendations to a user
> > based on his activity - searches, purchases, reviews etc.) ? If no,
how
> > hard would it be to add it ?
> > Can the OfBiz-based e-commerce web site be presented by browsers of
smart
> > phones  ? How hard would it be to enable it ?
> > Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the
requirements
> > of the customer
> > Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the
geolocation of
> > the customer
> > Adding support for customization of products/services and changes in
the
> > prices according to the customization during the purchase process
> > Adding support for a composition solution of hardware, software and
human
> > services (bundles, kits). A seller could compose a new product by
> > combining several existing products
> > Adding support for manual approval of products by site administrators
> > before submission of the products to the e-commerce site
> > Adding support for managing versions of the software applications that
are
> > sold on the e-commerce website
> >
> > Sorry for so many questions and sorry if some of them are out of
context.

> >
> > Best Regards,
> > Vadim
> > -------------------------------
> > Vadim Eisenberg
> > IT for Healthcare&  Life Sciences
> > IBM Research - Haifa
> >
> >
> >
>

[David E. Jones-2]

Vadim,

About your formatting: this mailing list filters out all HTML because HTML email messages tend to be VERY large and the Apache Software Foundation in general has many thousands of messages going through mailing lists every day.

Back to your original question: when asking questions here please keep in mind that responses you get are volunteer responses and the only qualification you can be sure of for those responding is that they are capable of subscribing to the mailing list. If many people respond with something consistent then it is a safer bet that you can rely on the information, but usually not otherwise. With a question as long and involved as yours chances are you'll only get a small number of responses, and chances are your experience will be VERY different from those few who do respond.

OFBiz is a large project. A good developer can learn to work effectively with the framework with a couple of weeks of training and a couple of months of hands-on development. However, even a good developer will have a hard time picking up all of the data structures and business logic even after many months of study, and realistically since most people don't or can't do that, it usually takes years of work experience and even then they'll only have knowledge of the parts of the system that have had the opportunity to work with.

Understanding the business side is much easier for someone who has a good business background, and by good business background I mean really good experience with how businesses actually operate and what sorts of information businesses actually keep track of when operating. Sometimes people coming out of university business programs will have this, but most of the time they do not. Most people with business degrees will have learned more about laws and how to manipulate people than about the myriad of complexities of managing a warehouse, handling purchasing, or tracking information about products to facility the many touch points with those products throughout the company, and making it easy for customers to find products they want, or how to figure out where customer interest intersects with stuff you want to move.

So anyway, keep in mind that your diving into a pretty comprehensive ERP system, but one that is made up of what people have seen fit to contribute for free. An extremely wide variety of data structures and common business processes are represented in the system, though many are not complete, or at least not complete in the way your client will want to use them.

The only way to really be sure is to document ALL business activities (usually easiest if organized by process and not by role or by system function), and then do an overlap/gap analysis to see how each business activity would be done in the system, or if there is not something to do it (or it is not adequate for what your users want) then detail what the system needs to do to help manage that activity. Once you've done that, then you'll know what the system can do for you as-is, and what needs to be done to expand and change the system to do what your client needs. Short of that, everything is a guess and guaranteed to be wrong (the only question is by how much and in which direction(s)...).

To help with that I recommend this material (this is what I use with clients):

http://www.dejc.com/home/HEMP.html

I'd also recommend looking at some of the generic business process stories that have come from OFBiz-based projects and been refined somewhat over the years (though keep in mind that these stories in some places represent activities that are not managed by OOTB OFBiz, ie these need an overlap/gap analysis document to make them more meaningful):

https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBREQDES/Universal+Business+Process+Library+Index

Best of luck,
-David


On Sep 3, 2010, at 11:32 AM, Vadim Eisenberg wrote:

> Hello BJ and other OfBiz developers,
>
> I was not subscribed to the mailing list so I did not receive the answer
> of BJ to my previous message -
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/ofbiz-user/201009.mbox/%3C4C7FFC99.9020109@...%3E 
> . Because of that I cannot post a response to it. Secondly, I used a wrong
> MIME in my previous message, so all the bullets and formatting were
> missing. I am reposting the original message below in the right format
> (any additional comments/opinions are welcome). In addition, my response
> to BJ follows. Sorry for the mess I created.
>
> Hi BJ,
>
> Thank you for your prompt response. I think I've got the general idea. I
> still would like to ask a question about learning OfBiz:
> The three volumes of the data model book comprise about 1700 pages
> together. Should I use the book as a reference or do I have to read all
> the three volumes before starting my work on OfBiz ? Which parts of the
> book are required before I begin my work ?
>
> Thanks & Regards,
> Vadim
>
>
>
>
> My original message:
> ===========================================================================================================
> Hello OfBiz developers,
>
> My name is Vadim Eisenberg and I work at IBM Research - Haifa, on the
> UniversAAL project - http://universaal.org/. It is a consortium European
> project. Its goal is to create a platform for applications, services and
> devices for Ambient Assisted Living, that is a kind of "Smart Home" for
> senior citizens. As part of the platform, we - several software developers
> - have to develop an e-commerce site - uStore
> http://universaal.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=9&Itemid=21 
> . This site would be a one-stop-shop for software, services and devices
> for Ambient Assisted Living.
>
> We consider using OfBiz for implementation of uStore.
>
> I would like to ask you several questions about the features we want to
> implement. I would be glad to hear any information you can tell me about
> how hard could it be for us to implement these features. Please note that
> we have no prior experience with OfBiz.
>
> Any your thoughts, intuition, experience, advice about OfBiz/business
> programming are welcome.
>
> In particular, the following information would help us very much :
> How much work should be done by us in order to implement all the features
> that follow (Person/Months, Person/Years, for skilled OfBiz
> developers/general software engineers). Which part would be to use
> existing "extension" mechanisms of OfBiz and which part would be actually
> changing the OfBiz code ? Here your intuition/experience from related
> projects is welcome, we do not need exact numbers, just a ballpark.
> How much time the general software developers have to learn about OfBiz
> and how skilled in OfBiz  they should become in order to implement these
> features
>
>        E-commerce website features:
> Using e-commerce site for selling software (such as AppStore of iPhone)
> and downloadable files in general (video, presentations of courses etc.).
> Here the issue is to manage links where the bought files could be
> downloaded. The idea is to prevent a situation in which buyers would buy a
> software application, receive a link to it for downloading and share the
> link afterwards with anybody they want, so anybody would be able to
> download the application without paying for it.
> Using e-commerce site for selling services (human services and others)
> Extending e-commerce site with general widgets, such as calendar, clock,
> map, a widget for downloading files, etc., and integrating the widgets
> with the OfBiz
>
> Integration with other websites/services:
> Integrating an e-commerce website with another (non-OfBiz backed) site -
> adding possibility for sellers to add products to the e-commerce site via
> the other site, to see customer feedback provided on the e-commerce site
> via the other site
> Integrating an e-commerce website with another (possibly non-OfBiz)
> e-commerce website, such as eBay/Amazon. What are the current
> possibilities of integration with eBay ?
> Integrating an e-commerce website with post/delivery services/sites
>
> Adding advanced features:
> Adding support for signing business contracts between service consumers
> and service providers, between providers of different services etc. via
> the e-commerce site
> Adding support for applying capability/requirement model, such as  
> JSR-124,  (for example  for matching between customer's requirements and
> capabilities of software, devices and services). The customer or software
> agent on behalf of the customer could provide his requirements as part of
> his account information, and the e-commerce solution would match between
> the products (according to their capabilities) and the requirements of the
> customers.
> Has OfBiz a recommendation engine (providing recommendations to a user
> based on his activity - searches, purchases, reviews etc.) ? If no, how
> hard would it be to add it ?
> Can the OfBiz-based e-commerce web site be presented by browsers of smart
> phones  ? How hard would it be to enable it ?
> Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the requirements
> of the customer
> Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the geolocation of
> the customer
> Adding support for customization of products/services and changes in the
> prices according to the customization during the purchase process
> Adding support for a composition solution of hardware, software and human
> services (bundles, kits). A seller could compose a new product by
> combining several existing products
> Adding support for manual approval of products by site administrators
> before submission of the products to the e-commerce site
> Adding support for managing versions of the software applications that are
> sold on the e-commerce website
>
> Sorry for so many questions and sorry if some of them are out of context.
>
> Best Regards,
> Vadim
> -------------------------------
> Vadim Eisenberg
> IT for Healthcare & Life Sciences
> IBM Research - Haifa
>
>

[BJ Freeman]

David and I come from different Back grounds and see thing drastically
different.
David is College educated with 10+ experience in software.
My computer/software began in 1976.
I am self taught starting in 1976 with building my first Computer from
chips and wire wrap. on paper wrote the monitor then loaded it by
switches. I have been hired by companies to do hardware design to
manufacturing though 1980's.
In 1980 I moved from machine code to high level code, Basic, C, Pascal,
and Cobol.
I learned from experience what worked and does not at the compiler level
to provide lean and clean code.
I have been hired by companies to pull the  hardware/software projects
that were behind schedule and cost over runs to bring them back inline.
I was also hired by companies to take their paper way of doing business
and computerize it.
so like Davids Stories I used the paper process to define the functions
at high level then worked down to the low level code. What I have in
experience lets me fill in the gaps that end user may not have thought of.
I use a method of research of code to understand it, Admittedly, I don't
have the advantage of being the Architect of ofbiz that David has.
I break down software to black boxes with input and output and the
process it does. I then create a state diagram on how all the black
boxes interact from a hardware/software perspective.
Along with the design of the software is testing units to validate each
black box. each Black box has a set of stubs that allow it to receive
and send data that is evaluated by the test unit.
So in this respect I see myself more as a integrator than A software
Design engineer.
When I came to ofbiz, 2003, I already had systems that were working, so
I have a lot of experience in converting from other system to ofbiz.
Also a learning curve of how to keep the continued changes in the code
from effecting my customizations.

There are others that also have a lot of experience before ofbiz that
post here.

Just the fact we volunteer should not be construed as not knowing anything.
It is also surprising that those that seem the deepest into ofbiz rarely
contribute on the user Mailing list. A few do, but not as many as is on
the list of developers and committers.









=========================
BJ Freeman  <http://bjfreeman.elance.com>
Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation  <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
Specialtymarket.com  <http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist

Chat  Y! messenger: bjfr33man
David E Jones sent the following on 9/3/2010 12:00 PM:

>
> Vadim,
>
> About your formatting: this mailing list filters out all HTML because HTML email messages tend to be VERY large and the Apache Software Foundation in general has many thousands of messages going through mailing lists every day.
>
> Back to your original question: when asking questions here please keep in mind that responses you get are volunteer responses and the only qualification you can be sure of for those responding is that they are capable of subscribing to the mailing list. If many people respond with something consistent then it is a safer bet that you can rely on the information, but usually not otherwise. With a question as long and involved as yours chances are you'll only get a small number of responses, and chances are your experience will be VERY different from those few who do respond.
>
> OFBiz is a large project. A good developer can learn to work effectively with the framework with a couple of weeks of training and a couple of months of hands-on development. However, even a good developer will have a hard time picking up all of the data structures and business logic even after many months of study, and realistically since most people don't or can't do that, it usually takes years of work experience and even then they'll only have knowledge of the parts of the system that have had the opportunity to work with.
>
> Understanding the business side is much easier for someone who has a good business background, and by good business background I mean really good experience with how businesses actually operate and what sorts of information businesses actually keep track of when operating. Sometimes people coming out of university business programs will have this, but most of the time they do not. Most people with business degrees will have learned more about laws and how to manipulate people than about the myriad of complexities of managing a warehouse, handling purchasing, or tracking information about products to facility the many touch points with those products throughout the company, and making it easy for customers to find products they want, or how to figure out where customer interest intersects with stuff you want to move.
>
> So anyway, keep in mind that your diving into a pretty comprehensive ERP system, but one that is made up of what people have seen fit to contribute for free. An extremely wide variety of data structures and common business processes are represented in the system, though many are not complete, or at least not complete in the way your client will want to use them.
>
> The only way to really be sure is to document ALL business activities (usually easiest if organized by process and not by role or by system function), and then do an overlap/gap analysis to see how each business activity would be done in the system, or if there is not something to do it (or it is not adequate for what your users want) then detail what the system needs to do to help manage that activity. Once you've done that, then you'll know what the system can do for you as-is, and what needs to be done to expand and change the system to do what your client needs. Short of that, everything is a guess and guaranteed to be wrong (the only question is by how much and in which direction(s)...).
>
> To help with that I recommend this material (this is what I use with clients):
>
> http://www.dejc.com/home/HEMP.html
>
> I'd also recommend looking at some of the generic business process stories that have come from OFBiz-based projects and been refined somewhat over the years (though keep in mind that these stories in some places represent activities that are not managed by OOTB OFBiz, ie these need an overlap/gap analysis document to make them more meaningful):
>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBREQDES/Universal+Business+Process+Library+Index
>
> Best of luck,
> -David
>
>
> On Sep 3, 2010, at 11:32 AM, Vadim Eisenberg wrote:
>
>> Hello BJ and other OfBiz developers,
>>
>> I was not subscribed to the mailing list so I did not receive the answer
>> of BJ to my previous message -
>> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/ofbiz-user/201009.mbox/%3C4C7FFC99.9020109@...%3E
>> . Because of that I cannot post a response to it. Secondly, I used a wrong
>> MIME in my previous message, so all the bullets and formatting were
>> missing. I am reposting the original message below in the right format
>> (any additional comments/opinions are welcome). In addition, my response
>> to BJ follows. Sorry for the mess I created.
>>
>> Hi BJ,
>>
>> Thank you for your prompt response. I think I've got the general idea. I
>> still would like to ask a question about learning OfBiz:
>> The three volumes of the data model book comprise about 1700 pages
>> together. Should I use the book as a reference or do I have to read all
>> the three volumes before starting my work on OfBiz ? Which parts of the
>> book are required before I begin my work ?
>>
>> Thanks&  Regards,
>> Vadim
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> My original message:
>> ===========================================================================================================
>> Hello OfBiz developers,
>>
>> My name is Vadim Eisenberg and I work at IBM Research - Haifa, on the
>> UniversAAL project - http://universaal.org/. It is a consortium European
>> project. Its goal is to create a platform for applications, services and
>> devices for Ambient Assisted Living, that is a kind of "Smart Home" for
>> senior citizens. As part of the platform, we - several software developers
>> - have to develop an e-commerce site - uStore
>> http://universaal.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=9&Itemid=21
>> . This site would be a one-stop-shop for software, services and devices
>> for Ambient Assisted Living.
>>
>> We consider using OfBiz for implementation of uStore.
>>
>> I would like to ask you several questions about the features we want to
>> implement. I would be glad to hear any information you can tell me about
>> how hard could it be for us to implement these features. Please note that
>> we have no prior experience with OfBiz.
>>
>> Any your thoughts, intuition, experience, advice about OfBiz/business
>> programming are welcome.
>>
>> In particular, the following information would help us very much :
>> How much work should be done by us in order to implement all the features
>> that follow (Person/Months, Person/Years, for skilled OfBiz
>> developers/general software engineers). Which part would be to use
>> existing "extension" mechanisms of OfBiz and which part would be actually
>> changing the OfBiz code ? Here your intuition/experience from related
>> projects is welcome, we do not need exact numbers, just a ballpark.
>> How much time the general software developers have to learn about OfBiz
>> and how skilled in OfBiz  they should become in order to implement these
>> features
>>
>>         E-commerce website features:
>> Using e-commerce site for selling software (such as AppStore of iPhone)
>> and downloadable files in general (video, presentations of courses etc.).
>> Here the issue is to manage links where the bought files could be
>> downloaded. The idea is to prevent a situation in which buyers would buy a
>> software application, receive a link to it for downloading and share the
>> link afterwards with anybody they want, so anybody would be able to
>> download the application without paying for it.
>> Using e-commerce site for selling services (human services and others)
>> Extending e-commerce site with general widgets, such as calendar, clock,
>> map, a widget for downloading files, etc., and integrating the widgets
>> with the OfBiz
>>
>> Integration with other websites/services:
>> Integrating an e-commerce website with another (non-OfBiz backed) site -
>> adding possibility for sellers to add products to the e-commerce site via
>> the other site, to see customer feedback provided on the e-commerce site
>> via the other site
>> Integrating an e-commerce website with another (possibly non-OfBiz)
>> e-commerce website, such as eBay/Amazon. What are the current
>> possibilities of integration with eBay ?
>> Integrating an e-commerce website with post/delivery services/sites
>>
>> Adding advanced features:
>> Adding support for signing business contracts between service consumers
>> and service providers, between providers of different services etc. via
>> the e-commerce site
>> Adding support for applying capability/requirement model, such as
>> JSR-124,  (for example  for matching between customer's requirements and
>> capabilities of software, devices and services). The customer or software
>> agent on behalf of the customer could provide his requirements as part of
>> his account information, and the e-commerce solution would match between
>> the products (according to their capabilities) and the requirements of the
>> customers.
>> Has OfBiz a recommendation engine (providing recommendations to a user
>> based on his activity - searches, purchases, reviews etc.) ? If no, how
>> hard would it be to add it ?
>> Can the OfBiz-based e-commerce web site be presented by browsers of smart
>> phones  ? How hard would it be to enable it ?
>> Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the requirements
>> of the customer
>> Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the geolocation of
>> the customer
>> Adding support for customization of products/services and changes in the
>> prices according to the customization during the purchase process
>> Adding support for a composition solution of hardware, software and human
>> services (bundles, kits). A seller could compose a new product by
>> combining several existing products
>> Adding support for manual approval of products by site administrators
>> before submission of the products to the e-commerce site
>> Adding support for managing versions of the software applications that are
>> sold on the e-commerce website
>>
>> Sorry for so many questions and sorry if some of them are out of context.
>>
>> Best Regards,
>> Vadim
>> -------------------------------
>> Vadim Eisenberg
>> IT for Healthcare&  Life Sciences
>> IBM Research - Haifa
>>
>>
>
>

[Vadim Eisenberg]

Hi David,
 
Thank you for your answer and explanations. I failed with the formatting
for the second time, so I will try to write in plain text from now on.
 
You wrote: "when asking questions here please keep in mind that responses
you get are volunteer responses and the only qualification you can be sure
of for those responding
is that they are capable of subscribing to the mailing list. If many
people respond with something
consistent then it is a safer bet that you can rely on the information,
but usually not otherwise."
 
I guess this is how Open Source works :) ? by volunteers contributing code
to the product and answering questions in the mailing lists. I still would
like to hear as much opinions as possible from the developers "in the
trenches", so anybody is welcome to provide them. I would like to thank BJ
again for providing his opinions.
 
Please note that the project I participate in, is a kind of Research and
Development project, sponsored by EU and implemented by a consortium of
academic and industrial partners. The project is planned for four years
(ending in January 2014). One of its goals is to create an open source
implementation of an e-commerce solution - uStore, suited for the field of
AAL - Ambient Assisted Living (that is a kind of "smart home" for senior
citizens). The main concept of uStore is similar to the concept of
AppStore of Apple ? the AAL application developers would be able to upload
and sell their applications from the store. In addition to that, AAL
related devices and human services would be sold. An additional important
feature is to integrate "social commerce" ? user reviews, blogs, forums
etc.
 
Please note that developing uStore is Research and Development and there
are not yet concrete AAL businesses that would immediately use it. The
goal is to provide some reference open source implementation in four
years. This implementation would be later supported and extended by an
open-source community according to the business needs of AAL businesses,
once some real AAL businesses would use it. One of the goals is to reuse
the existing open-source OOTB solutions in any field as much as possible
in order to save resources as much as possible.
 
As a result of the situation, the accent here is more on e-commerce
features of existing e-commerce solutions, especially related to the
e-commerce frontend, than on their ERP features. We would like to use the
simplest and the most straightforward standard business model (preferably
OOTB) for e-commerce and invest more resources into the frontend features.
By the frontend features I mean the website, its accessibility, including
presentation on smart phones, search, recommendations, user reviews, blogs
and forums etc. As I understand the strength of OfBiz is actually its rich
ERP data model, however here we probably do not need the advanced ERP
features of OfBiz.
 
I have read your HEMP Light document ? it was interesting and provided
some insights for me. Currently we are in process of finalizing the use
cases/requirements of the uStore and evaluating existing e-commerce
solutions, with OfBiz being one of the main candidates.
 
Thanks & Regards,
Vadim

-------------------------------
Vadim Eisenberg
IT for Healthcare & Life Sciences
IBM Research - Haifa
 

David E Jones <[hidden email]> wrote on 03/09/2010 10:00:38 PM:

> From:
>
> David E Jones <[hidden email]>
>
> To:
>
> [hidden email]
>
> Date:
>
> 03/09/2010 10:01 PM
>
> Subject:
>
> Re: OfBiz e-commerce customization
>
>
> Vadim,
>
> About your formatting: this mailing list filters out all HTML
> because HTML email messages tend to be VERY large and the Apache
> Software Foundation in general has many thousands of messages going
> through mailing lists every day.
>
> Back to your original question: when asking questions here please
> keep in mind that responses you get are volunteer responses and the
> only qualification you can be sure of for those responding is that
> they are capable of subscribing to the mailing list. If many people
> respond with something consistent then it is a safer bet that you
> can rely on the information, but usually not otherwise. With a
> question as long and involved as yours chances are you'll only get a
> small number of responses, and chances are your experience will be
> VERY different from those few who do respond.
>
> OFBiz is a large project. A good developer can learn to work
> effectively with the framework with a couple of weeks of training
> and a couple of months of hands-on development. However, even a good
> developer will have a hard time picking up all of the data
> structures and business logic even after many months of study, and
> realistically since most people don't or can't do that, it usually
> takes years of work experience and even then they'll only have
> knowledge of the parts of the system that have had the opportunity
> to work with.
>
> Understanding the business side is much easier for someone who has a
> good business background, and by good business background I mean
> really good experience with how businesses actually operate and what
> sorts of information businesses actually keep track of when
> operating. Sometimes people coming out of university business
> programs will have this, but most of the time they do not. Most
> people with business degrees will have learned more about laws and
> how to manipulate people than about the myriad of complexities of
> managing a warehouse, handling purchasing, or tracking information
> about products to facility the many touch points with those products
> throughout the company, and making it easy for customers to find
> products they want, or how to figure out where customer interest
> intersects with stuff you want to move.
>
> So anyway, keep in mind that your diving into a pretty comprehensive
> ERP system, but one that is made up of what people have seen fit to
> contribute for free. An extremely wide variety of data structures
> and common business processes are represented in the system, though
> many are not complete, or at least not complete in the way your
> client will want to use them.
>
> The only way to really be sure is to document ALL business
> activities (usually easiest if organized by process and not by role
> or by system function), and then do an overlap/gap analysis to see
> how each business activity would be done in the system, or if there
> is not something to do it (or it is not adequate for what your users
> want) then detail what the system needs to do to help manage that
> activity. Once you've done that, then you'll know what the system
> can do for you as-is, and what needs to be done to expand and change
> the system to do what your client needs. Short of that, everything
> is a guess and guaranteed to be wrong (the only question is by how
> much and in which direction(s)...).
>
> To help with that I recommend this material (this is what I use

withclients):
>
> http://www.dejc.com/home/HEMP.html
>
> I'd also recommend looking at some of the generic business process
> stories that have come from OFBiz-based projects and been refined
> somewhat over the years (though keep in mind that these stories in
> some places represent activities that are not managed by OOTB OFBiz,
> ie these need an overlap/gap analysis document to make them more
meaningful):

>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBREQDES/Universal
> +Business+Process+Library+Index
>
> Best of luck,
> -David
>
>
> On Sep 3, 2010, at 11:32 AM, Vadim Eisenberg wrote:
>
> > Hello BJ and other OfBiz developers,
> >
> > I was not subscribed to the mailing list so I did not receive the

answer
> > of BJ to my previous message -
> > <a href="http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/ofbiz-user/201009.mbox/%">http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/ofbiz-user/201009.mbox/%
> [hidden email]%3E
> > . Because of that I cannot post a response to it. Secondly, I used a
wrong
> > MIME in my previous message, so all the bullets and formatting were
> > missing. I am reposting the original message below in the right format

> > (any additional comments/opinions are welcome). In addition, my
response
> > to BJ follows. Sorry for the mess I created.
> >
> > Hi BJ,
> >
> > Thank you for your prompt response. I think I've got the general idea.
I
> > still would like to ask a question about learning OfBiz:
> > The three volumes of the data model book comprise about 1700 pages
> > together. Should I use the book as a reference or do I have to read
all
> > the three volumes before starting my work on OfBiz ? Which parts of
the

> > book are required before I begin my work ?
> >
> > Thanks & Regards,
> > Vadim
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > My original message:
> >
>

===========================================================================================================
> > Hello OfBiz developers,
> >
> > My name is Vadim Eisenberg and I work at IBM Research - Haifa, on the
> > UniversAAL project - http://universaal.org/. It is a consortium
European
> > project. Its goal is to create a platform for applications, services
and
> > devices for Ambient Assisted Living, that is a kind of "Smart Home"
for
> > senior citizens. As part of the platform, we - several software
developers
> > - have to develop an e-commerce site - uStore
> > http://universaal.org/index.php?
> option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=9&Itemid=21
> > . This site would be a one-stop-shop for software, services and
devices
> > for Ambient Assisted Living.
> >
> > We consider using OfBiz for implementation of uStore.
> >
> > I would like to ask you several questions about the features we want
to
> > implement. I would be glad to hear any information you can tell me
about
> > how hard could it be for us to implement these features. Please note
that
> > we have no prior experience with OfBiz.
> >
> > Any your thoughts, intuition, experience, advice about OfBiz/business
> > programming are welcome.
> >
> > In particular, the following information would help us very much :
> > How much work should be done by us in order to implement all the
features
> > that follow (Person/Months, Person/Years, for skilled OfBiz
> > developers/general software engineers). Which part would be to use
> > existing "extension" mechanisms of OfBiz and which part would be
actually
> > changing the OfBiz code ? Here your intuition/experience from related
> > projects is welcome, we do not need exact numbers, just a ballpark.
> > How much time the general software developers have to learn about
OfBiz
> > and how skilled in OfBiz  they should become in order to implement
these
> > features
> >
> >        E-commerce website features:
> > Using e-commerce site for selling software (such as AppStore of
iPhone)
> > and downloadable files in general (video, presentations of courses
etc.).
> > Here the issue is to manage links where the bought files could be
> > downloaded. The idea is to prevent a situation in which buyers would
buy a
> > software application, receive a link to it for downloading and share
the
> > link afterwards with anybody they want, so anybody would be able to
> > download the application without paying for it.
> > Using e-commerce site for selling services (human services and others)
> > Extending e-commerce site with general widgets, such as calendar,
clock,
> > map, a widget for downloading files, etc., and integrating the widgets

> > with the OfBiz
> >
> > Integration with other websites/services:
> > Integrating an e-commerce website with another (non-OfBiz backed) site
-
> > adding possibility for sellers to add products to the e-commerce site
via
> > the other site, to see customer feedback provided on the e-commerce
site
> > via the other site
> > Integrating an e-commerce website with another (possibly non-OfBiz)
> > e-commerce website, such as eBay/Amazon. What are the current
> > possibilities of integration with eBay ?
> > Integrating an e-commerce website with post/delivery services/sites
> >
> > Adding advanced features:
> > Adding support for signing business contracts between service
consumers
> > and service providers, between providers of different services etc.
via
> > the e-commerce site
> > Adding support for applying capability/requirement model, such as
> > JSR-124,  (for example  for matching between customer's requirements
and
> > capabilities of software, devices and services). The customer or
software
> > agent on behalf of the customer could provide his requirements as part
of
> > his account information, and the e-commerce solution would match
between
> > the products (according to their capabilities) and the requirements of
the
> > customers.
> > Has OfBiz a recommendation engine (providing recommendations to a user

> > based on his activity - searches, purchases, reviews etc.) ? If no,
how
> > hard would it be to add it ?
> > Can the OfBiz-based e-commerce web site be presented by browsers of
smart
> > phones  ? How hard would it be to enable it ?
> > Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the
requirements
> > of the customer
> > Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the
geolocation of
> > the customer
> > Adding support for customization of products/services and changes in
the
> > prices according to the customization during the purchase process
> > Adding support for a composition solution of hardware, software and
human
> > services (bundles, kits). A seller could compose a new product by
> > combining several existing products
> > Adding support for manual approval of products by site administrators
> > before submission of the products to the e-commerce site
> > Adding support for managing versions of the software applications that
are
> > sold on the e-commerce website
> >
> > Sorry for so many questions and sorry if some of them are out of
context.

> >
> > Best Regards,
> > Vadim
> > -------------------------------
> > Vadim Eisenberg
> > IT for Healthcare & Life Sciences
> > IBM Research - Haifa
> >
> >
>

[BJ Freeman]

one of the concepts that is hard for most web developers is ofbiz
Ecommerce is like a third Tier Application.
Ecommerce depends on all the other Back-end applications and the framework.
So you don't design a page then add the data in the db to support it.
Also you will find the Ecommerce in the Second Volume starting about
page 393.
You can also look at the data model for Health care in Vol II.
There is a section about Health Care Delivery. mind you this is only
data modeling and the actual business logic and UI has to be developed.

My back ground is hardware automation as well as embedded applications.
in the 70's I designed a home that was automated, it used compressed air
and cylinders for activation of doors and ramps. At that time proximity
sensors were all that was available.

I say this because of your focus.
Being nearly 70 I have worked towards a computer companion, as such,
using AI. its purpose was to be my guide when I got too forgetful.

so here is something you may not have considered. Ofbiz as the Home
automation with in the home.
Ofbiz has a sync capability used in the POS that could be used to sync
the ofbiz running in the home with the main website.
This way each person would have their own personalize themes for their home.
this would be an embedded Linux server with touch screen. it is all
enclosed.
you would use the network that automatically connects to other network
nodes and builds an Intranet in the home. this allows for other systems
to interact with ofbiz.

The Framework of ofbiz has the ability to run schedule services. the
scripts for the services can be modified without re-compiling or
restarting ofbiz, though the actual service defs do require a restart if
changed or added. this is being worked on so the home system can be
updated on the fly.

There is also a Setup component that can be added to for new components.

needless to say I very sold on ofbiz and what it can do.
it does though, as David said have places that need to fleshed out.

=========================

BJ Freeman
Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation  <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
Specialtymarket.com  <http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist

Chat  Y! messenger: bjfr33man

Vadim Eisenberg sent the following on 9/4/2010 1:02 AM:

> Hi David,
>
> Thank you for your answer and explanations. I failed with the formatting
> for the second time, so I will try to write in plain text from now on.
>
> You wrote: "when asking questions here please keep in mind that responses
> you get are volunteer responses and the only qualification you can be sure
> of for those responding
> is that they are capable of subscribing to the mailing list. If many
> people respond with something
> consistent then it is a safer bet that you can rely on the information,
> but usually not otherwise."
>
> I guess this is how Open Source works :) ? by volunteers contributing code
> to the product and answering questions in the mailing lists. I still would
> like to hear as much opinions as possible from the developers "in the
> trenches", so anybody is welcome to provide them. I would like to thank BJ
> again for providing his opinions.
>
> Please note that the project I participate in, is a kind of Research and
> Development project, sponsored by EU and implemented by a consortium of
> academic and industrial partners. The project is planned for four years
> (ending in January 2014). One of its goals is to create an open source
> implementation of an e-commerce solution - uStore, suited for the field of
> AAL - Ambient Assisted Living (that is a kind of "smart home" for senior
> citizens). The main concept of uStore is similar to the concept of
> AppStore of Apple ? the AAL application developers would be able to upload
> and sell their applications from the store. In addition to that, AAL
> related devices and human services would be sold. An additional important
> feature is to integrate "social commerce" ? user reviews, blogs, forums
> etc.
>
> Please note that developing uStore is Research and Development and there
> are not yet concrete AAL businesses that would immediately use it. The
> goal is to provide some reference open source implementation in four
> years. This implementation would be later supported and extended by an
> open-source community according to the business needs of AAL businesses,
> once some real AAL businesses would use it. One of the goals is to reuse
> the existing open-source OOTB solutions in any field as much as possible
> in order to save resources as much as possible.
>
> As a result of the situation, the accent here is more on e-commerce
> features of existing e-commerce solutions, especially related to the
> e-commerce frontend, than on their ERP features. We would like to use the
> simplest and the most straightforward standard business model (preferably
> OOTB) for e-commerce and invest more resources into the frontend features.
> By the frontend features I mean the website, its accessibility, including
> presentation on smart phones, search, recommendations, user reviews, blogs
> and forums etc. As I understand the strength of OfBiz is actually its rich
> ERP data model, however here we probably do not need the advanced ERP
> features of OfBiz.
>
> I have read your HEMP Light document ? it was interesting and provided
> some insights for me. Currently we are in process of finalizing the use
> cases/requirements of the uStore and evaluating existing e-commerce
> solutions, with OfBiz being one of the main candidates.
>
> Thanks&  Regards,
> Vadim
>
> -------------------------------
> Vadim Eisenberg
> IT for Healthcare&  Life Sciences
> IBM Research - Haifa
>
>
> David E Jones<[hidden email]>  wrote on 03/09/2010 10:00:38 PM:
>
>> From:
>>
>> David E Jones<[hidden email]>
>>
>> To:
>>
>> [hidden email]
>>
>> Date:
>>
>> 03/09/2010 10:01 PM
>>
>> Subject:
>>
>> Re: OfBiz e-commerce customization
>>
>>
>> Vadim,
>>
>> About your formatting: this mailing list filters out all HTML
>> because HTML email messages tend to be VERY large and the Apache
>> Software Foundation in general has many thousands of messages going
>> through mailing lists every day.
>>
>> Back to your original question: when asking questions here please
>> keep in mind that responses you get are volunteer responses and the
>> only qualification you can be sure of for those responding is that
>> they are capable of subscribing to the mailing list. If many people
>> respond with something consistent then it is a safer bet that you
>> can rely on the information, but usually not otherwise. With a
>> question as long and involved as yours chances are you'll only get a
>> small number of responses, and chances are your experience will be
>> VERY different from those few who do respond.
>>
>> OFBiz is a large project. A good developer can learn to work
>> effectively with the framework with a couple of weeks of training
>> and a couple of months of hands-on development. However, even a good
>> developer will have a hard time picking up all of the data
>> structures and business logic even after many months of study, and
>> realistically since most people don't or can't do that, it usually
>> takes years of work experience and even then they'll only have
>> knowledge of the parts of the system that have had the opportunity
>> to work with.
>>
>> Understanding the business side is much easier for someone who has a
>> good business background, and by good business background I mean
>> really good experience with how businesses actually operate and what
>> sorts of information businesses actually keep track of when
>> operating. Sometimes people coming out of university business
>> programs will have this, but most of the time they do not. Most
>> people with business degrees will have learned more about laws and
>> how to manipulate people than about the myriad of complexities of
>> managing a warehouse, handling purchasing, or tracking information
>> about products to facility the many touch points with those products
>> throughout the company, and making it easy for customers to find
>> products they want, or how to figure out where customer interest
>> intersects with stuff you want to move.
>>
>> So anyway, keep in mind that your diving into a pretty comprehensive
>> ERP system, but one that is made up of what people have seen fit to
>> contribute for free. An extremely wide variety of data structures
>> and common business processes are represented in the system, though
>> many are not complete, or at least not complete in the way your
>> client will want to use them.
>>
>> The only way to really be sure is to document ALL business
>> activities (usually easiest if organized by process and not by role
>> or by system function), and then do an overlap/gap analysis to see
>> how each business activity would be done in the system, or if there
>> is not something to do it (or it is not adequate for what your users
>> want) then detail what the system needs to do to help manage that
>> activity. Once you've done that, then you'll know what the system
>> can do for you as-is, and what needs to be done to expand and change
>> the system to do what your client needs. Short of that, everything
>> is a guess and guaranteed to be wrong (the only question is by how
>> much and in which direction(s)...).
>>
>> To help with that I recommend this material (this is what I use
> withclients):
>>
>> http://www.dejc.com/home/HEMP.html
>>
>> I'd also recommend looking at some of the generic business process
>> stories that have come from OFBiz-based projects and been refined
>> somewhat over the years (though keep in mind that these stories in
>> some places represent activities that are not managed by OOTB OFBiz,
>> ie these need an overlap/gap analysis document to make them more
> meaningful):
>>
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBREQDES/Universal
>> +Business+Process+Library+Index
>>
>> Best of luck,
>> -David
>>
>>
>> On Sep 3, 2010, at 11:32 AM, Vadim Eisenberg wrote:
>>
>>> Hello BJ and other OfBiz developers,
>>>
>>> I was not subscribed to the mailing list so I did not receive the
> answer
>>> of BJ to my previous message -
>>> <a href="http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/ofbiz-user/201009.mbox/%">http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/ofbiz-user/201009.mbox/%
>> [hidden email]%3E
>>> . Because of that I cannot post a response to it. Secondly, I used a
> wrong
>>> MIME in my previous message, so all the bullets and formatting were
>>> missing. I am reposting the original message below in the right format
>
>>> (any additional comments/opinions are welcome). In addition, my
> response
>>> to BJ follows. Sorry for the mess I created.
>>>
>>> Hi BJ,
>>>
>>> Thank you for your prompt response. I think I've got the general idea.
> I
>>> still would like to ask a question about learning OfBiz:
>>> The three volumes of the data model book comprise about 1700 pages
>>> together. Should I use the book as a reference or do I have to read
> all
>>> the three volumes before starting my work on OfBiz ? Which parts of
> the
>>> book are required before I begin my work ?
>>>
>>> Thanks&  Regards,
>>> Vadim
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> My original message:
>>>
>>
> ===========================================================================================================
>>> Hello OfBiz developers,
>>>
>>> My name is Vadim Eisenberg and I work at IBM Research - Haifa, on the
>>> UniversAAL project - http://universaal.org/. It is a consortium
> European
>>> project. Its goal is to create a platform for applications, services
> and
>>> devices for Ambient Assisted Living, that is a kind of "Smart Home"
> for
>>> senior citizens. As part of the platform, we - several software
> developers
>>> - have to develop an e-commerce site - uStore
>>> http://universaal.org/index.php?
>> option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=9&Itemid=21
>>> . This site would be a one-stop-shop for software, services and
> devices
>>> for Ambient Assisted Living.
>>>
>>> We consider using OfBiz for implementation of uStore.
>>>
>>> I would like to ask you several questions about the features we want
> to
>>> implement. I would be glad to hear any information you can tell me
> about
>>> how hard could it be for us to implement these features. Please note
> that
>>> we have no prior experience with OfBiz.
>>>
>>> Any your thoughts, intuition, experience, advice about OfBiz/business
>>> programming are welcome.
>>>
>>> In particular, the following information would help us very much :
>>> How much work should be done by us in order to implement all the
> features
>>> that follow (Person/Months, Person/Years, for skilled OfBiz
>>> developers/general software engineers). Which part would be to use
>>> existing "extension" mechanisms of OfBiz and which part would be
> actually
>>> changing the OfBiz code ? Here your intuition/experience from related
>>> projects is welcome, we do not need exact numbers, just a ballpark.
>>> How much time the general software developers have to learn about
> OfBiz
>>> and how skilled in OfBiz  they should become in order to implement
> these
>>> features
>>>
>>>         E-commerce website features:
>>> Using e-commerce site for selling software (such as AppStore of
> iPhone)
>>> and downloadable files in general (video, presentations of courses
> etc.).
>>> Here the issue is to manage links where the bought files could be
>>> downloaded. The idea is to prevent a situation in which buyers would
> buy a
>>> software application, receive a link to it for downloading and share
> the
>>> link afterwards with anybody they want, so anybody would be able to
>>> download the application without paying for it.
>>> Using e-commerce site for selling services (human services and others)
>>> Extending e-commerce site with general widgets, such as calendar,
> clock,
>>> map, a widget for downloading files, etc., and integrating the widgets
>
>>> with the OfBiz
>>>
>>> Integration with other websites/services:
>>> Integrating an e-commerce website with another (non-OfBiz backed) site
> -
>>> adding possibility for sellers to add products to the e-commerce site
> via
>>> the other site, to see customer feedback provided on the e-commerce
> site
>>> via the other site
>>> Integrating an e-commerce website with another (possibly non-OfBiz)
>>> e-commerce website, such as eBay/Amazon. What are the current
>>> possibilities of integration with eBay ?
>>> Integrating an e-commerce website with post/delivery services/sites
>>>
>>> Adding advanced features:
>>> Adding support for signing business contracts between service
> consumers
>>> and service providers, between providers of different services etc.
> via
>>> the e-commerce site
>>> Adding support for applying capability/requirement model, such as
>>> JSR-124,  (for example  for matching between customer's requirements
> and
>>> capabilities of software, devices and services). The customer or
> software
>>> agent on behalf of the customer could provide his requirements as part
> of
>>> his account information, and the e-commerce solution would match
> between
>>> the products (according to their capabilities) and the requirements of
> the
>>> customers.
>>> Has OfBiz a recommendation engine (providing recommendations to a user
>
>>> based on his activity - searches, purchases, reviews etc.) ? If no,
> how
>>> hard would it be to add it ?
>>> Can the OfBiz-based e-commerce web site be presented by browsers of
> smart
>>> phones  ? How hard would it be to enable it ?
>>> Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the
> requirements
>>> of the customer
>>> Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the
> geolocation of
>>> the customer
>>> Adding support for customization of products/services and changes in
> the
>>> prices according to the customization during the purchase process
>>> Adding support for a composition solution of hardware, software and
> human
>>> services (bundles, kits). A seller could compose a new product by
>>> combining several existing products
>>> Adding support for manual approval of products by site administrators
>>> before submission of the products to the e-commerce site
>>> Adding support for managing versions of the software applications that
> are
>>> sold on the e-commerce website
>>>
>>> Sorry for so many questions and sorry if some of them are out of
> context.
>>>
>>> Best Regards,
>>> Vadim
>>> -------------------------------
>>> Vadim Eisenberg
>>> IT for Healthcare&  Life Sciences
>>> IBM Research - Haifa
>>>
>>>
>>
>

[David E. Jones-2]

On Sep 3, 2010, at 7:23 PM, BJ Freeman wrote:

>
> David and I come from different Back grounds and see thing drastically different.
> David is College educated with 10+ experience in software.
> My computer/software began in 1976.
> I am self taught starting in 1976 with building my first Computer from chips and wire wrap. on paper wrote the monitor then loaded it by switches. I have been hired by companies to do hardware design to manufacturing though 1980's.
> In 1980 I moved from machine code to high level code, Basic, C, Pascal, and Cobol.
> I learned from experience what worked and does not at the compiler level to provide lean and clean code.
> I have been hired by companies to pull the  hardware/software projects that were behind schedule and cost over runs to bring them back inline.
> I was also hired by companies to take their paper way of doing business and computerize it.
> so like Davids Stories I used the paper process to define the functions at high level then worked down to the low level code. What I have in experience lets me fill in the gaps that end user may not have thought of.
> I use a method of research of code to understand it, Admittedly, I don't have the advantage of being the Architect of ofbiz that David has.
> I break down software to black boxes with input and output and the process it does. I then create a state diagram on how all the black boxes interact from a hardware/software perspective.
> Along with the design of the software is testing units to validate each black box. each Black box has a set of stubs that allow it to receive and send data that is evaluated by the test unit.
> So in this respect I see myself more as a integrator than A software Design engineer.
> When I came to ofbiz, 2003, I already had systems that were working, so I have a lot of experience in converting from other system to ofbiz. Also a learning curve of how to keep the continued changes in the code from effecting my customizations.
>
> There are others that also have a lot of experience before ofbiz that post here.
>
> Just the fact we volunteer should not be construed as not knowing anything.

Yes, you're absolutely right about this BJ. I'm sorry if what I wrote offended you, I really meant it as a generality and not targeted at you personally.

> It is also surprising that those that seem the deepest into ofbiz rarely contribute on the user Mailing list. A few do, but not as many as is on the list of developers and committers.

It is unfortunate, but it shouldn't be too surprising. In general I'd say the current involvement of many of the people who made OFBiz what it is are barely involved any more. The reasons are pretty simple though (IMO anyway), mainly related to motivation and reasons for contributing code and answering questions on the mailing lists, and also related to the resources necessary to allow a person to do that. The main factor seems to be that when the project was growing there were lots of consulting opportunities that paid enough to leave extra time for people to work on pet projects and things of interest and enough to provide motivation to do so in order to attract more and better work. That just isn't the case any more.

For me it's been a really interesting experience. I worked a lot on helping people and growing the community (especially attracting contributors) over the first few years of the project because I thought the open community-driven model was the best way to go. You don't really know what something's like until problems arise because before that you've only really seen one side of it. Now that I've seen the other side of this model I no longer think it the best (especially in terms of software quality), though I still think it is a great model for certain things. The general idea is great, but there are issues with enough motivation and flow of resources to get, and keep, quality people involved.

If I understand right, that's kind of what you were getting at BJ. Whatever the case, thank you for your continued involvement in the project and your efforts to help people who ask questions.

-David

> David E Jones sent the following on 9/3/2010 12:00 PM:
>
>
>>
>> Vadim,
>>
>> About your formatting: this mailing list filters out all HTML because HTML email messages tend to be VERY large and the Apache Software Foundation in general has many thousands of messages going through mailing lists every day.
>>
>> Back to your original question: when asking questions here please keep in mind that responses you get are volunteer responses and the only qualification you can be sure of for those responding is that they are capable of subscribing to the mailing list. If many people respond with something consistent then it is a safer bet that you can rely on the information, but usually not otherwise. With a question as long and involved as yours chances are you'll only get a small number of responses, and chances are your experience will be VERY different from those few who do respond.
>>
>> OFBiz is a large project. A good developer can learn to work effectively with the framework with a couple of weeks of training and a couple of months of hands-on development. However, even a good developer will have a hard time picking up all of the data structures and business logic even after many months of study, and realistically since most people don't or can't do that, it usually takes years of work experience and even then they'll only have knowledge of the parts of the system that have had the opportunity to work with.
>>
>> Understanding the business side is much easier for someone who has a good business background, and by good business background I mean really good experience with how businesses actually operate and what sorts of information businesses actually keep track of when operating. Sometimes people coming out of university business programs will have this, but most of the time they do not. Most people with business degrees will have learned more about laws and how to manipulate people than about the myriad of complexities of managing a warehouse, handling purchasing, or tracking information about products to facility the many touch points with those products throughout the company, and making it easy for customers to find products they want, or how to figure out where customer interest intersects with stuff you want to move.
>>
>> So anyway, keep in mind that your diving into a pretty comprehensive ERP system, but one that is made up of what people have seen fit to contribute for free. An extremely wide variety of data structures and common business processes are represented in the system, though many are not complete, or at least not complete in the way your client will want to use them.
>>
>> The only way to really be sure is to document ALL business activities (usually easiest if organized by process and not by role or by system function), and then do an overlap/gap analysis to see how each business activity would be done in the system, or if there is not something to do it (or it is not adequate for what your users want) then detail what the system needs to do to help manage that activity. Once you've done that, then you'll know what the system can do for you as-is, and what needs to be done to expand and change the system to do what your client needs. Short of that, everything is a guess and guaranteed to be wrong (the only question is by how much and in which direction(s)...).
>>
>> To help with that I recommend this material (this is what I use with clients):
>>
>> http://www.dejc.com/home/HEMP.html
>>
>> I'd also recommend looking at some of the generic business process stories that have come from OFBiz-based projects and been refined somewhat over the years (though keep in mind that these stories in some places represent activities that are not managed by OOTB OFBiz, ie these need an overlap/gap analysis document to make them more meaningful):
>>
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBREQDES/Universal+Business+Process+Library+Index
>>
>> Best of luck,
>> -David
>>
>>
>> On Sep 3, 2010, at 11:32 AM, Vadim Eisenberg wrote:
>>
>>> Hello BJ and other OfBiz developers,
>>>
>>> I was not subscribed to the mailing list so I did not receive the answer
>>> of BJ to my previous message -
>>> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/ofbiz-user/201009.mbox/%3C4C7FFC99.9020109@...%3E
>>> . Because of that I cannot post a response to it. Secondly, I used a wrong
>>> MIME in my previous message, so all the bullets and formatting were
>>> missing. I am reposting the original message below in the right format
>>> (any additional comments/opinions are welcome). In addition, my response
>>> to BJ follows. Sorry for the mess I created.
>>>
>>> Hi BJ,
>>>
>>> Thank you for your prompt response. I think I've got the general idea. I
>>> still would like to ask a question about learning OfBiz:
>>> The three volumes of the data model book comprise about 1700 pages
>>> together. Should I use the book as a reference or do I have to read all
>>> the three volumes before starting my work on OfBiz ? Which parts of the
>>> book are required before I begin my work ?
>>>
>>> Thanks&  Regards,
>>> Vadim
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> My original message:
>>> ===========================================================================================================
>>> Hello OfBiz developers,
>>>
>>> My name is Vadim Eisenberg and I work at IBM Research - Haifa, on the
>>> UniversAAL project - http://universaal.org/. It is a consortium European
>>> project. Its goal is to create a platform for applications, services and
>>> devices for Ambient Assisted Living, that is a kind of "Smart Home" for
>>> senior citizens. As part of the platform, we - several software developers
>>> - have to develop an e-commerce site - uStore
>>> http://universaal.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=9&Itemid=21
>>> . This site would be a one-stop-shop for software, services and devices
>>> for Ambient Assisted Living.
>>>
>>> We consider using OfBiz for implementation of uStore.
>>>
>>> I would like to ask you several questions about the features we want to
>>> implement. I would be glad to hear any information you can tell me about
>>> how hard could it be for us to implement these features. Please note that
>>> we have no prior experience with OfBiz.
>>>
>>> Any your thoughts, intuition, experience, advice about OfBiz/business
>>> programming are welcome.
>>>
>>> In particular, the following information would help us very much :
>>> How much work should be done by us in order to implement all the features
>>> that follow (Person/Months, Person/Years, for skilled OfBiz
>>> developers/general software engineers). Which part would be to use
>>> existing "extension" mechanisms of OfBiz and which part would be actually
>>> changing the OfBiz code ? Here your intuition/experience from related
>>> projects is welcome, we do not need exact numbers, just a ballpark.
>>> How much time the general software developers have to learn about OfBiz
>>> and how skilled in OfBiz  they should become in order to implement these
>>> features
>>>
>>>        E-commerce website features:
>>> Using e-commerce site for selling software (such as AppStore of iPhone)
>>> and downloadable files in general (video, presentations of courses etc.).
>>> Here the issue is to manage links where the bought files could be
>>> downloaded. The idea is to prevent a situation in which buyers would buy a
>>> software application, receive a link to it for downloading and share the
>>> link afterwards with anybody they want, so anybody would be able to
>>> download the application without paying for it.
>>> Using e-commerce site for selling services (human services and others)
>>> Extending e-commerce site with general widgets, such as calendar, clock,
>>> map, a widget for downloading files, etc., and integrating the widgets
>>> with the OfBiz
>>>
>>> Integration with other websites/services:
>>> Integrating an e-commerce website with another (non-OfBiz backed) site -
>>> adding possibility for sellers to add products to the e-commerce site via
>>> the other site, to see customer feedback provided on the e-commerce site
>>> via the other site
>>> Integrating an e-commerce website with another (possibly non-OfBiz)
>>> e-commerce website, such as eBay/Amazon. What are the current
>>> possibilities of integration with eBay ?
>>> Integrating an e-commerce website with post/delivery services/sites
>>>
>>> Adding advanced features:
>>> Adding support for signing business contracts between service consumers
>>> and service providers, between providers of different services etc. via
>>> the e-commerce site
>>> Adding support for applying capability/requirement model, such as
>>> JSR-124,  (for example  for matching between customer's requirements and
>>> capabilities of software, devices and services). The customer or software
>>> agent on behalf of the customer could provide his requirements as part of
>>> his account information, and the e-commerce solution would match between
>>> the products (according to their capabilities) and the requirements of the
>>> customers.
>>> Has OfBiz a recommendation engine (providing recommendations to a user
>>> based on his activity - searches, purchases, reviews etc.) ? If no, how
>>> hard would it be to add it ?
>>> Can the OfBiz-based e-commerce web site be presented by browsers of smart
>>> phones  ? How hard would it be to enable it ?
>>> Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the requirements
>>> of the customer
>>> Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the geolocation of
>>> the customer
>>> Adding support for customization of products/services and changes in the
>>> prices according to the customization during the purchase process
>>> Adding support for a composition solution of hardware, software and human
>>> services (bundles, kits). A seller could compose a new product by
>>> combining several existing products
>>> Adding support for manual approval of products by site administrators
>>> before submission of the products to the e-commerce site
>>> Adding support for managing versions of the software applications that are
>>> sold on the e-commerce website
>>>
>>> Sorry for so many questions and sorry if some of them are out of context.
>>>
>>> Best Regards,
>>> Vadim
>>> -------------------------------
>>> Vadim Eisenberg
>>> IT for Healthcare&  Life Sciences
>>> IBM Research - Haifa
>>>
>>>
>>
>>

[BJ Freeman]

David Don't give up the ship yet.
Obiz in my estimation is the best thing out there from a overall
maintenance and adding to. I believed that back in 2002 when I first saw
it and believe that now.
The first problem you ran into was you started during a recession.
So people were looking for "inexpensive" solutions.
To my knowledge there is no model for software where consultant are
hired just because it is there.
Usually it takes a great deal of marketing smarts and some luck to get
your software to be used. Like the Apple/Microsoft battles of the 80's
they got a lot of free publicity.
Those of the GNU community had "other jobs" and had a passion and belief
so they contributed. The license part about if change it contribute back
also had a great deal to do with it.
Both in the Commercial and the GNU/Apache community responses to bugs
and incomplete code has also been what spurs confidence.

Bottom line even if you have to be a dishwasher to survived (past
experience from the 1970 recession) don't give up you dream. Continue to
support those that want to contribute and give Guidance. You will be
rewarded in time and get the satisfaction of a job well done.

=========================

BJ Freeman
Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation  <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
Specialtymarket.com  <http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist

Chat  Y! messenger: bjfr33man
David E Jones sent the following on 9/4/2010 7:21 AM:

> It is unfortunate, but it shouldn't be too surprising. In general I'd say the current involvement of many of the people who made OFBiz what it is are barely involved any more. The reasons are pretty simple though (IMO anyway), mainly related to motivation and reasons for contributing code and answering questions on the mailing lists, and also related to the resources necessary to allow a person to do that. The main factor seems to be that when the project was growing there were lots of consulting opportunities that paid enough to leave extra time for people to work on pet projects and things of interest and enough to provide motivation to do so in order to attract more and better work. That just isn't the case any more.
>
> For me it's been a really interesting experience. I worked a lot on helping people and growing the community (especially attracting contributors) over the first few years of the project because I thought the open community-driven model was the best way to go. You don't really know what something's like until problems arise because before that you've only really seen one side of it. Now that I've seen the other side of this model I no longer think it the best (especially in terms of software quality), though I still think it is a great model for certain things. The general idea is great, but there are issues with enough motivation and flow of resources to get, and keep, quality people involved.
>
> If I understand right, that's kind of what you were getting at BJ. Whatever the case, thank you for your continued involvement in the project and your efforts to help people who ask questions.

[Shi Jinghai]

It seems your strategy is very clear: you need a set of UI for free and
will sell your middle ware in the future. If so, I guess OFBiz will not
be your choice.


在 2010-09-04六的 11:02 +0300，Vadim Eisenberg写道：

> Hi David,
>  
> Thank you for your answer and explanations. I failed with the formatting
> for the second time, so I will try to write in plain text from now on.
>  
> You wrote: "when asking questions here please keep in mind that responses
> you get are volunteer responses and the only qualification you can be sure
> of for those responding
> is that they are capable of subscribing to the mailing list. If many
> people respond with something
> consistent then it is a safer bet that you can rely on the information,
> but usually not otherwise."
>  
> I guess this is how Open Source works :) ? by volunteers contributing code
> to the product and answering questions in the mailing lists. I still would
> like to hear as much opinions as possible from the developers "in the
> trenches", so anybody is welcome to provide them. I would like to thank BJ
> again for providing his opinions.
>  
> Please note that the project I participate in, is a kind of Research and
> Development project, sponsored by EU and implemented by a consortium of
> academic and industrial partners. The project is planned for four years
> (ending in January 2014). One of its goals is to create an open source
> implementation of an e-commerce solution - uStore, suited for the field of
> AAL - Ambient Assisted Living (that is a kind of "smart home" for senior
> citizens). The main concept of uStore is similar to the concept of
> AppStore of Apple ? the AAL application developers would be able to upload
> and sell their applications from the store. In addition to that, AAL
> related devices and human services would be sold. An additional important
> feature is to integrate "social commerce" ? user reviews, blogs, forums
> etc.
>  
> Please note that developing uStore is Research and Development and there
> are not yet concrete AAL businesses that would immediately use it. The
> goal is to provide some reference open source implementation in four
> years. This implementation would be later supported and extended by an
> open-source community according to the business needs of AAL businesses,
> once some real AAL businesses would use it. One of the goals is to reuse
> the existing open-source OOTB solutions in any field as much as possible
> in order to save resources as much as possible.
>  
> As a result of the situation, the accent here is more on e-commerce
> features of existing e-commerce solutions, especially related to the
> e-commerce frontend, than on their ERP features. We would like to use the
> simplest and the most straightforward standard business model (preferably
> OOTB) for e-commerce and invest more resources into the frontend features.
> By the frontend features I mean the website, its accessibility, including
> presentation on smart phones, search, recommendations, user reviews, blogs
> and forums etc. As I understand the strength of OfBiz is actually its rich
> ERP data model, however here we probably do not need the advanced ERP
> features of OfBiz.
>  
> I have read your HEMP Light document ? it was interesting and provided
> some insights for me. Currently we are in process of finalizing the use
> cases/requirements of the uStore and evaluating existing e-commerce
> solutions, with OfBiz being one of the main candidates.
>  
> Thanks & Regards,
> Vadim
>
> -------------------------------
> Vadim Eisenberg
> IT for Healthcare & Life Sciences
> IBM Research - Haifa
>  
>
> David E Jones <[hidden email]> wrote on 03/09/2010 10:00:38 PM:
>
> > From:
> >
> > David E Jones <[hidden email]>
> >
> > To:
> >
> > [hidden email]
> >
> > Date:
> >
> > 03/09/2010 10:01 PM
> >
> > Subject:
> >
> > Re: OfBiz e-commerce customization
> >
> >
> > Vadim,
> >
> > About your formatting: this mailing list filters out all HTML
> > because HTML email messages tend to be VERY large and the Apache
> > Software Foundation in general has many thousands of messages going
> > through mailing lists every day.
> >
> > Back to your original question: when asking questions here please
> > keep in mind that responses you get are volunteer responses and the
> > only qualification you can be sure of for those responding is that
> > they are capable of subscribing to the mailing list. If many people
> > respond with something consistent then it is a safer bet that you
> > can rely on the information, but usually not otherwise. With a
> > question as long and involved as yours chances are you'll only get a
> > small number of responses, and chances are your experience will be
> > VERY different from those few who do respond.
> >
> > OFBiz is a large project. A good developer can learn to work
> > effectively with the framework with a couple of weeks of training
> > and a couple of months of hands-on development. However, even a good
> > developer will have a hard time picking up all of the data
> > structures and business logic even after many months of study, and
> > realistically since most people don't or can't do that, it usually
> > takes years of work experience and even then they'll only have
> > knowledge of the parts of the system that have had the opportunity
> > to work with.
> >
> > Understanding the business side is much easier for someone who has a
> > good business background, and by good business background I mean
> > really good experience with how businesses actually operate and what
> > sorts of information businesses actually keep track of when
> > operating. Sometimes people coming out of university business
> > programs will have this, but most of the time they do not. Most
> > people with business degrees will have learned more about laws and
> > how to manipulate people than about the myriad of complexities of
> > managing a warehouse, handling purchasing, or tracking information
> > about products to facility the many touch points with those products
> > throughout the company, and making it easy for customers to find
> > products they want, or how to figure out where customer interest
> > intersects with stuff you want to move.
> >
> > So anyway, keep in mind that your diving into a pretty comprehensive
> > ERP system, but one that is made up of what people have seen fit to
> > contribute for free. An extremely wide variety of data structures
> > and common business processes are represented in the system, though
> > many are not complete, or at least not complete in the way your
> > client will want to use them.
> >
> > The only way to really be sure is to document ALL business
> > activities (usually easiest if organized by process and not by role
> > or by system function), and then do an overlap/gap analysis to see
> > how each business activity would be done in the system, or if there
> > is not something to do it (or it is not adequate for what your users
> > want) then detail what the system needs to do to help manage that
> > activity. Once you've done that, then you'll know what the system
> > can do for you as-is, and what needs to be done to expand and change
> > the system to do what your client needs. Short of that, everything
> > is a guess and guaranteed to be wrong (the only question is by how
> > much and in which direction(s)...).
> >
> > To help with that I recommend this material (this is what I use
> withclients):
> >
> > http://www.dejc.com/home/HEMP.html
> >
> > I'd also recommend looking at some of the generic business process
> > stories that have come from OFBiz-based projects and been refined
> > somewhat over the years (though keep in mind that these stories in
> > some places represent activities that are not managed by OOTB OFBiz,
> > ie these need an overlap/gap analysis document to make them more
> meaningful):
> >
> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBREQDES/Universal
> > +Business+Process+Library+Index
> >
> > Best of luck,
> > -David
> >
> >
> > On Sep 3, 2010, at 11:32 AM, Vadim Eisenberg wrote:
> >
> > > Hello BJ and other OfBiz developers,
> > >
> > > I was not subscribed to the mailing list so I did not receive the
> answer
> > > of BJ to my previous message -
> > > <a href="http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/ofbiz-user/201009.mbox/%">http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/ofbiz-user/201009.mbox/%
> > [hidden email]%3E
> > > . Because of that I cannot post a response to it. Secondly, I used a
> wrong
> > > MIME in my previous message, so all the bullets and formatting were
> > > missing. I am reposting the original message below in the right format
>
> > > (any additional comments/opinions are welcome). In addition, my
> response
> > > to BJ follows. Sorry for the mess I created.
> > >
> > > Hi BJ,
> > >
> > > Thank you for your prompt response. I think I've got the general idea.
> I
> > > still would like to ask a question about learning OfBiz:
> > > The three volumes of the data model book comprise about 1700 pages
> > > together. Should I use the book as a reference or do I have to read
> all
> > > the three volumes before starting my work on OfBiz ? Which parts of
> the
> > > book are required before I begin my work ?
> > >
> > > Thanks & Regards,
> > > Vadim
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > My original message:
> > >
> >
> ===========================================================================================================
> > > Hello OfBiz developers,
> > >
> > > My name is Vadim Eisenberg and I work at IBM Research - Haifa, on the
> > > UniversAAL project - http://universaal.org/. It is a consortium
> European
> > > project. Its goal is to create a platform for applications, services
> and
> > > devices for Ambient Assisted Living, that is a kind of "Smart Home"
> for
> > > senior citizens. As part of the platform, we - several software
> developers
> > > - have to develop an e-commerce site - uStore
> > > http://universaal.org/index.php?
> > option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=9&Itemid=21
> > > . This site would be a one-stop-shop for software, services and
> devices
> > > for Ambient Assisted Living.
> > >
> > > We consider using OfBiz for implementation of uStore.
> > >
> > > I would like to ask you several questions about the features we want
> to
> > > implement. I would be glad to hear any information you can tell me
> about
> > > how hard could it be for us to implement these features. Please note
> that
> > > we have no prior experience with OfBiz.
> > >
> > > Any your thoughts, intuition, experience, advice about OfBiz/business
> > > programming are welcome.
> > >
> > > In particular, the following information would help us very much :
> > > How much work should be done by us in order to implement all the
> features
> > > that follow (Person/Months, Person/Years, for skilled OfBiz
> > > developers/general software engineers). Which part would be to use
> > > existing "extension" mechanisms of OfBiz and which part would be
> actually
> > > changing the OfBiz code ? Here your intuition/experience from related
> > > projects is welcome, we do not need exact numbers, just a ballpark.
> > > How much time the general software developers have to learn about
> OfBiz
> > > and how skilled in OfBiz  they should become in order to implement
> these
> > > features
> > >
> > >        E-commerce website features:
> > > Using e-commerce site for selling software (such as AppStore of
> iPhone)
> > > and downloadable files in general (video, presentations of courses
> etc.).
> > > Here the issue is to manage links where the bought files could be
> > > downloaded. The idea is to prevent a situation in which buyers would
> buy a
> > > software application, receive a link to it for downloading and share
> the
> > > link afterwards with anybody they want, so anybody would be able to
> > > download the application without paying for it.
> > > Using e-commerce site for selling services (human services and others)
> > > Extending e-commerce site with general widgets, such as calendar,
> clock,
> > > map, a widget for downloading files, etc., and integrating the widgets
>
> > > with the OfBiz
> > >
> > > Integration with other websites/services:
> > > Integrating an e-commerce website with another (non-OfBiz backed) site
> -
> > > adding possibility for sellers to add products to the e-commerce site
> via
> > > the other site, to see customer feedback provided on the e-commerce
> site
> > > via the other site
> > > Integrating an e-commerce website with another (possibly non-OfBiz)
> > > e-commerce website, such as eBay/Amazon. What are the current
> > > possibilities of integration with eBay ?
> > > Integrating an e-commerce website with post/delivery services/sites
> > >
> > > Adding advanced features:
> > > Adding support for signing business contracts between service
> consumers
> > > and service providers, between providers of different services etc.
> via
> > > the e-commerce site
> > > Adding support for applying capability/requirement model, such as
> > > JSR-124,  (for example  for matching between customer's requirements
> and
> > > capabilities of software, devices and services). The customer or
> software
> > > agent on behalf of the customer could provide his requirements as part
> of
> > > his account information, and the e-commerce solution would match
> between
> > > the products (according to their capabilities) and the requirements of
> the
> > > customers.
> > > Has OfBiz a recommendation engine (providing recommendations to a user
>
> > > based on his activity - searches, purchases, reviews etc.) ? If no,
> how
> > > hard would it be to add it ?
> > > Can the OfBiz-based e-commerce web site be presented by browsers of
> smart
> > > phones  ? How hard would it be to enable it ?
> > > Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the
> requirements
> > > of the customer
> > > Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the
> geolocation of
> > > the customer
> > > Adding support for customization of products/services and changes in
> the
> > > prices according to the customization during the purchase process
> > > Adding support for a composition solution of hardware, software and
> human
> > > services (bundles, kits). A seller could compose a new product by
> > > combining several existing products
> > > Adding support for manual approval of products by site administrators
> > > before submission of the products to the e-commerce site
> > > Adding support for managing versions of the software applications that
> are
> > > sold on the e-commerce website
> > >
> > > Sorry for so many questions and sorry if some of them are out of
> context.
> > >
> > > Best Regards,
> > > Vadim
> > > -------------------------------
> > > Vadim Eisenberg
> > > IT for Healthcare & Life Sciences
> > > IBM Research - Haifa
> > >
> > >
> >

[Vadim Eisenberg]

Hi BJ,

It is an interesting idea ! You actually propose to use OfBiz as the core
platform for the AAL, and not only as an e-commerce solution. We will
consider it as an option. However, I would say that it seems that it could
be an overkill to use an ERP solution as a general platform for
applications and devices. This option could be too heavy, in terms of
unneeded code/unneeded business features/high learning curve etc.. The
idea is definitely interesting, though.

Best Regards,
Vadim
-------------------------------
Vadim Eisenberg
IT for Healthcare & Life Sciences
IBM Research - Haifa


BJ Freeman <[hidden email]> wrote on 04/09/2010 04:37:21 PM:

> From:
>
> BJ Freeman <[hidden email]>
>
> To:
>
> [hidden email]
>
> Date:
>
> 04/09/2010 04:38 PM
>
> Subject:
>
> Re: OfBiz e-commerce customization
>
> one of the concepts that is hard for most web developers is ofbiz
> Ecommerce is like a third Tier Application.
> Ecommerce depends on all the other Back-end applications and the

framework.
> So you don't design a page then add the data in the db to support it.
> Also you will find the Ecommerce in the Second Volume starting about
> page 393.
> You can also look at the data model for Health care in Vol II.
> There is a section about Health Care Delivery. mind you this is only
> data modeling and the actual business logic and UI has to be developed.
>
> My back ground is hardware automation as well as embedded applications.
> in the 70's I designed a home that was automated, it used compressed air

> and cylinders for activation of doors and ramps. At that time proximity
> sensors were all that was available.
>
> I say this because of your focus.
> Being nearly 70 I have worked towards a computer companion, as such,
> using AI. its purpose was to be my guide when I got too forgetful.
>
> so here is something you may not have considered. Ofbiz as the Home
> automation with in the home.
> Ofbiz has a sync capability used in the POS that could be used to sync
> the ofbiz running in the home with the main website.
> This way each person would have their own personalize themes for their

home.
> this would be an embedded Linux server with touch screen. it is all
> enclosed.
> you would use the network that automatically connects to other network
> nodes and builds an Intranet in the home. this allows for other systems
> to interact with ofbiz.
>
> The Framework of ofbiz has the ability to run schedule services. the
> scripts for the services can be modified without re-compiling or
> restarting ofbiz, though the actual service defs do require a restart if

> changed or added. this is being worked on so the home system can be
> updated on the fly.
>
> There is also a Setup component that can be added to for new components.
>
> needless to say I very sold on ofbiz and what it can do.
> it does though, as David said have places that need to fleshed out.
>
> =========================
>
> BJ Freeman
> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation  <http://
> www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
> Specialtymarket.com  <http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>
> Chat  Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>
> Vadim Eisenberg sent the following on 9/4/2010 1:02 AM:
>
> > Hi David,
> >
> > Thank you for your answer and explanations. I failed with the

formatting
> > for the second time, so I will try to write in plain text from now on.
> >
> > You wrote: "when asking questions here please keep in mind that
responses
> > you get are volunteer responses and the only qualification you can be
sure
> > of for those responding
> > is that they are capable of subscribing to the mailing list. If many
> > people respond with something
> > consistent then it is a safer bet that you can rely on the
information,
> > but usually not otherwise."
> >
> > I guess this is how Open Source works :) ? by volunteers contributing
code
> > to the product and answering questions in the mailing lists. I still
would
> > like to hear as much opinions as possible from the developers "in the
> > trenches", so anybody is welcome to provide them. I would like to
thank BJ
> > again for providing his opinions.
> >
> > Please note that the project I participate in, is a kind of Research
and
> > Development project, sponsored by EU and implemented by a consortium
of
> > academic and industrial partners. The project is planned for four
years
> > (ending in January 2014). One of its goals is to create an open source
> > implementation of an e-commerce solution - uStore, suited for the
field of
> > AAL - Ambient Assisted Living (that is a kind of "smart home" for
senior
> > citizens). The main concept of uStore is similar to the concept of
> > AppStore of Apple ? the AAL application developers would be able to
upload
> > and sell their applications from the store. In addition to that, AAL
> > related devices and human services would be sold. An additional
important
> > feature is to integrate "social commerce" ? user reviews, blogs,
forums
> > etc.
> >
> > Please note that developing uStore is Research and Development and
there
> > are not yet concrete AAL businesses that would immediately use it. The
> > goal is to provide some reference open source implementation in four
> > years. This implementation would be later supported and extended by an
> > open-source community according to the business needs of AAL
businesses,
> > once some real AAL businesses would use it. One of the goals is to
reuse
> > the existing open-source OOTB solutions in any field as much as
possible
> > in order to save resources as much as possible.
> >
> > As a result of the situation, the accent here is more on e-commerce
> > features of existing e-commerce solutions, especially related to the
> > e-commerce frontend, than on their ERP features. We would like to use
the
> > simplest and the most straightforward standard business model
(preferably
> > OOTB) for e-commerce and invest more resources into the frontend
features.
> > By the frontend features I mean the website, its accessibility,
including
> > presentation on smart phones, search, recommendations, user reviews,
blogs
> > and forums etc. As I understand the strength of OfBiz is actually its
rich
> > ERP data model, however here we probably do not need the advanced ERP
> > features of OfBiz.
> >
> > I have read your HEMP Light document ? it was interesting and provided
> > some insights for me. Currently we are in process of finalizing the
use

> > cases/requirements of the uStore and evaluating existing e-commerce
> > solutions, with OfBiz being one of the main candidates.
> >
> > Thanks&  Regards,
> > Vadim
> >
> > -------------------------------
> > Vadim Eisenberg
> > IT for Healthcare&  Life Sciences
> > IBM Research - Haifa
> >
> >
> > David E Jones<[hidden email]>  wrote on 03/09/2010 10:00:38 PM:
> >
> >> From:
> >>
> >> David E Jones<[hidden email]>
> >>
> >> To:
> >>
> >> [hidden email]
> >>
> >> Date:
> >>
> >> 03/09/2010 10:01 PM
> >>
> >> Subject:
> >>
> >> Re: OfBiz e-commerce customization
> >>
> >>
> >> Vadim,
> >>
> >> About your formatting: this mailing list filters out all HTML
> >> because HTML email messages tend to be VERY large and the Apache
> >> Software Foundation in general has many thousands of messages going
> >> through mailing lists every day.
> >>
> >> Back to your original question: when asking questions here please
> >> keep in mind that responses you get are volunteer responses and the
> >> only qualification you can be sure of for those responding is that
> >> they are capable of subscribing to the mailing list. If many people
> >> respond with something consistent then it is a safer bet that you
> >> can rely on the information, but usually not otherwise. With a
> >> question as long and involved as yours chances are you'll only get a
> >> small number of responses, and chances are your experience will be
> >> VERY different from those few who do respond.
> >>
> >> OFBiz is a large project. A good developer can learn to work
> >> effectively with the framework with a couple of weeks of training
> >> and a couple of months of hands-on development. However, even a good
> >> developer will have a hard time picking up all of the data
> >> structures and business logic even after many months of study, and
> >> realistically since most people don't or can't do that, it usually
> >> takes years of work experience and even then they'll only have
> >> knowledge of the parts of the system that have had the opportunity
> >> to work with.
> >>
> >> Understanding the business side is much easier for someone who has a
> >> good business background, and by good business background I mean
> >> really good experience with how businesses actually operate and what
> >> sorts of information businesses actually keep track of when
> >> operating. Sometimes people coming out of university business
> >> programs will have this, but most of the time they do not. Most
> >> people with business degrees will have learned more about laws and
> >> how to manipulate people than about the myriad of complexities of
> >> managing a warehouse, handling purchasing, or tracking information
> >> about products to facility the many touch points with those products
> >> throughout the company, and making it easy for customers to find
> >> products they want, or how to figure out where customer interest
> >> intersects with stuff you want to move.
> >>
> >> So anyway, keep in mind that your diving into a pretty comprehensive
> >> ERP system, but one that is made up of what people have seen fit to
> >> contribute for free. An extremely wide variety of data structures
> >> and common business processes are represented in the system, though
> >> many are not complete, or at least not complete in the way your
> >> client will want to use them.
> >>
> >> The only way to really be sure is to document ALL business
> >> activities (usually easiest if organized by process and not by role
> >> or by system function), and then do an overlap/gap analysis to see
> >> how each business activity would be done in the system, or if there
> >> is not something to do it (or it is not adequate for what your users
> >> want) then detail what the system needs to do to help manage that
> >> activity. Once you've done that, then you'll know what the system
> >> can do for you as-is, and what needs to be done to expand and change
> >> the system to do what your client needs. Short of that, everything
> >> is a guess and guaranteed to be wrong (the only question is by how
> >> much and in which direction(s)...).
> >>
> >> To help with that I recommend this material (this is what I use
> > withclients):
> >>
> >> http://www.dejc.com/home/HEMP.html
> >>
> >> I'd also recommend looking at some of the generic business process
> >> stories that have come from OFBiz-based projects and been refined
> >> somewhat over the years (though keep in mind that these stories in
> >> some places represent activities that are not managed by OOTB OFBiz,
> >> ie these need an overlap/gap analysis document to make them more
> > meaningful):
> >>
> >> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBREQDES/Universal
> >> +Business+Process+Library+Index
> >>
> >> Best of luck,
> >> -David
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sep 3, 2010, at 11:32 AM, Vadim Eisenberg wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hello BJ and other OfBiz developers,
> >>>
> >>> I was not subscribed to the mailing list so I did not receive the
> > answer
> >>> of BJ to my previous message -
> >>> <a href="http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/ofbiz-user/201009.mbox/%">http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/ofbiz-user/201009.mbox/%
> >> [hidden email]%3E
> >>> . Because of that I cannot post a response to it. Secondly, I used a
> > wrong
> >>> MIME in my previous message, so all the bullets and formatting were
> >>> missing. I am reposting the original message below in the right

format
> >
> >>> (any additional comments/opinions are welcome). In addition, my
> > response
> >>> to BJ follows. Sorry for the mess I created.
> >>>
> >>> Hi BJ,
> >>>
> >>> Thank you for your prompt response. I think I've got the general
idea.

> > I
> >>> still would like to ask a question about learning OfBiz:
> >>> The three volumes of the data model book comprise about 1700 pages
> >>> together. Should I use the book as a reference or do I have to read
> > all
> >>> the three volumes before starting my work on OfBiz ? Which parts of
> > the
> >>> book are required before I begin my work ?
> >>>
> >>> Thanks&  Regards,
> >>> Vadim
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> My original message:
> >>>
> >>
> >
>

===========================================================================================================
> >>> Hello OfBiz developers,
> >>>
> >>> My name is Vadim Eisenberg and I work at IBM Research - Haifa, on
the

> >>> UniversAAL project - http://universaal.org/. It is a consortium
> > European
> >>> project. Its goal is to create a platform for applications, services
> > and
> >>> devices for Ambient Assisted Living, that is a kind of "Smart Home"
> > for
> >>> senior citizens. As part of the platform, we - several software
> > developers
> >>> - have to develop an e-commerce site - uStore
> >>> http://universaal.org/index.php?
> >> option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=9&Itemid=21
> >>> . This site would be a one-stop-shop for software, services and
> > devices
> >>> for Ambient Assisted Living.
> >>>
> >>> We consider using OfBiz for implementation of uStore.
> >>>
> >>> I would like to ask you several questions about the features we want
> > to
> >>> implement. I would be glad to hear any information you can tell me
> > about
> >>> how hard could it be for us to implement these features. Please note
> > that
> >>> we have no prior experience with OfBiz.
> >>>
> >>> Any your thoughts, intuition, experience, advice about

OfBiz/business

> >>> programming are welcome.
> >>>
> >>> In particular, the following information would help us very much :
> >>> How much work should be done by us in order to implement all the
> > features
> >>> that follow (Person/Months, Person/Years, for skilled OfBiz
> >>> developers/general software engineers). Which part would be to use
> >>> existing "extension" mechanisms of OfBiz and which part would be
> > actually
> >>> changing the OfBiz code ? Here your intuition/experience from

related

> >>> projects is welcome, we do not need exact numbers, just a ballpark.
> >>> How much time the general software developers have to learn about
> > OfBiz
> >>> and how skilled in OfBiz  they should become in order to implement
> > these
> >>> features
> >>>
> >>>         E-commerce website features:
> >>> Using e-commerce site for selling software (such as AppStore of
> > iPhone)
> >>> and downloadable files in general (video, presentations of courses
> > etc.).
> >>> Here the issue is to manage links where the bought files could be
> >>> downloaded. The idea is to prevent a situation in which buyers would
> > buy a
> >>> software application, receive a link to it for downloading and share
> > the
> >>> link afterwards with anybody they want, so anybody would be able to
> >>> download the application without paying for it.
> >>> Using e-commerce site for selling services (human services and

others)
> >>> Extending e-commerce site with general widgets, such as calendar,
> > clock,
> >>> map, a widget for downloading files, etc., and integrating the
widgets
> >
> >>> with the OfBiz
> >>>
> >>> Integration with other websites/services:
> >>> Integrating an e-commerce website with another (non-OfBiz backed)
site
> > -
> >>> adding possibility for sellers to add products to the e-commerce
site

> > via
> >>> the other site, to see customer feedback provided on the e-commerce
> > site
> >>> via the other site
> >>> Integrating an e-commerce website with another (possibly non-OfBiz)
> >>> e-commerce website, such as eBay/Amazon. What are the current
> >>> possibilities of integration with eBay ?
> >>> Integrating an e-commerce website with post/delivery services/sites
> >>>
> >>> Adding advanced features:
> >>> Adding support for signing business contracts between service
> > consumers
> >>> and service providers, between providers of different services etc.
> > via
> >>> the e-commerce site
> >>> Adding support for applying capability/requirement model, such as
> >>> JSR-124,  (for example  for matching between customer's requirements
> > and
> >>> capabilities of software, devices and services). The customer or
> > software
> >>> agent on behalf of the customer could provide his requirements as

part
> > of
> >>> his account information, and the e-commerce solution would match
> > between
> >>> the products (according to their capabilities) and the requirements
of
> > the
> >>> customers.
> >>> Has OfBiz a recommendation engine (providing recommendations to a
user

> >
> >>> based on his activity - searches, purchases, reviews etc.) ? If no,
> > how
> >>> hard would it be to add it ?
> >>> Can the OfBiz-based e-commerce web site be presented by browsers of
> > smart
> >>> phones  ? How hard would it be to enable it ?
> >>> Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the
> > requirements
> >>> of the customer
> >>> Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the
> > geolocation of
> >>> the customer
> >>> Adding support for customization of products/services and changes in
> > the
> >>> prices according to the customization during the purchase process
> >>> Adding support for a composition solution of hardware, software and
> > human
> >>> services (bundles, kits). A seller could compose a new product by
> >>> combining several existing products
> >>> Adding support for manual approval of products by site

administrators
> >>> before submission of the products to the e-commerce site
> >>> Adding support for managing versions of the software applications
that

> > are
> >>> sold on the e-commerce website
> >>>
> >>> Sorry for so many questions and sorry if some of them are out of
> > context.
> >>>
> >>> Best Regards,
> >>> Vadim
> >>> -------------------------------
> >>> Vadim Eisenberg
> >>> IT for Healthcare&  Life Sciences
> >>> IBM Research - Haifa
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >

[Vadim Eisenberg]

Hi Shi Jinghai,

We considered other open-source e-commerce solutions such as osCommerce
http://www.oscommerce.com/, but it is licensed under GPL. We cannot use
GPL/LGPL code in our project. So the advantage of OfBiz is its Apache
license. We are unaware of other open source e-commerce solutions that are
not licensed under GPL/LGPL.

Best Regards,
Vadim
-------------------------------
Vadim Eisenberg
IT for Healthcare & Life Sciences
IBM Research - Haifa
 

Shi Jinghai <[hidden email]> wrote on 05/09/2010 01:26:44 AM:

> From:
>
> Shi Jinghai <[hidden email]>
>
> To:
>
> [hidden email]
>
> Date:
>
> 05/09/2010 01:27 AM
>
> Subject:
>
> Re: OfBiz e-commerce customization
>
> It seems your strategy is very clear: you need a set of UI for free and
> will sell your middle ware in the future. If so, I guess OFBiz will not
> be your choice.
>
>
> 在 2010-09-04六的 11:02 +0300，Vadim Eisenberg写道：
> > Hi David,
> >
> > Thank you for your answer and explanations. I failed with the

formatting
> > for the second time, so I will try to write in plain text from now on.
> >
> > You wrote: "when asking questions here please keep in mind that
responses
> > you get are volunteer responses and the only qualification you can be
sure
> > of for those responding
> > is that they are capable of subscribing to the mailing list. If many
> > people respond with something
> > consistent then it is a safer bet that you can rely on the
information,
> > but usually not otherwise."
> >
> > I guess this is how Open Source works :) ? by volunteers contributing
code
> > to the product and answering questions in the mailing lists. I still
would
> > like to hear as much opinions as possible from the developers "in the
> > trenches", so anybody is welcome to provide them. I would like to
thank BJ
> > again for providing his opinions.
> >
> > Please note that the project I participate in, is a kind of Research
and
> > Development project, sponsored by EU and implemented by a consortium
of
> > academic and industrial partners. The project is planned for four
years
> > (ending in January 2014). One of its goals is to create an open source

> > implementation of an e-commerce solution - uStore, suited for the
field of
> > AAL - Ambient Assisted Living (that is a kind of "smart home" for
senior
> > citizens). The main concept of uStore is similar to the concept of
> > AppStore of Apple ? the AAL application developers would be able to
upload
> > and sell their applications from the store. In addition to that, AAL
> > related devices and human services would be sold. An additional
important
> > feature is to integrate "social commerce" ? user reviews, blogs,
forums
> > etc.
> >
> > Please note that developing uStore is Research and Development and
there
> > are not yet concrete AAL businesses that would immediately use it. The

> > goal is to provide some reference open source implementation in four
> > years. This implementation would be later supported and extended by an

> > open-source community according to the business needs of AAL
businesses,
> > once some real AAL businesses would use it. One of the goals is to
reuse
> > the existing open-source OOTB solutions in any field as much as
possible
> > in order to save resources as much as possible.
> >
> > As a result of the situation, the accent here is more on e-commerce
> > features of existing e-commerce solutions, especially related to the
> > e-commerce frontend, than on their ERP features. We would like to use
the
> > simplest and the most straightforward standard business model
(preferably
> > OOTB) for e-commerce and invest more resources into the frontend
features.
> > By the frontend features I mean the website, its accessibility,
including
> > presentation on smart phones, search, recommendations, user reviews,
blogs
> > and forums etc. As I understand the strength of OfBiz is actually its
rich
> > ERP data model, however here we probably do not need the advanced ERP
> > features of OfBiz.
> >
> > I have read your HEMP Light document ? it was interesting and provided

> > some insights for me. Currently we are in process of finalizing the
use

> > cases/requirements of the uStore and evaluating existing e-commerce
> > solutions, with OfBiz being one of the main candidates.
> >
> > Thanks & Regards,
> > Vadim
> >
> > -------------------------------
> > Vadim Eisenberg
> > IT for Healthcare & Life Sciences
> > IBM Research - Haifa
> >
> >
> > David E Jones <[hidden email]> wrote on 03/09/2010 10:00:38 PM:
> >
> > > From:
> > >
> > > David E Jones <[hidden email]>
> > >
> > > To:
> > >
> > > [hidden email]
> > >
> > > Date:
> > >
> > > 03/09/2010 10:01 PM
> > >
> > > Subject:
> > >
> > > Re: OfBiz e-commerce customization
> > >
> > >
> > > Vadim,
> > >
> > > About your formatting: this mailing list filters out all HTML
> > > because HTML email messages tend to be VERY large and the Apache
> > > Software Foundation in general has many thousands of messages going
> > > through mailing lists every day.
> > >
> > > Back to your original question: when asking questions here please
> > > keep in mind that responses you get are volunteer responses and the
> > > only qualification you can be sure of for those responding is that
> > > they are capable of subscribing to the mailing list. If many people
> > > respond with something consistent then it is a safer bet that you
> > > can rely on the information, but usually not otherwise. With a
> > > question as long and involved as yours chances are you'll only get a
> > > small number of responses, and chances are your experience will be
> > > VERY different from those few who do respond.
> > >
> > > OFBiz is a large project. A good developer can learn to work
> > > effectively with the framework with a couple of weeks of training
> > > and a couple of months of hands-on development. However, even a good
> > > developer will have a hard time picking up all of the data
> > > structures and business logic even after many months of study, and
> > > realistically since most people don't or can't do that, it usually
> > > takes years of work experience and even then they'll only have
> > > knowledge of the parts of the system that have had the opportunity
> > > to work with.
> > >
> > > Understanding the business side is much easier for someone who has a
> > > good business background, and by good business background I mean
> > > really good experience with how businesses actually operate and what
> > > sorts of information businesses actually keep track of when
> > > operating. Sometimes people coming out of university business
> > > programs will have this, but most of the time they do not. Most
> > > people with business degrees will have learned more about laws and
> > > how to manipulate people than about the myriad of complexities of
> > > managing a warehouse, handling purchasing, or tracking information
> > > about products to facility the many touch points with those products
> > > throughout the company, and making it easy for customers to find
> > > products they want, or how to figure out where customer interest
> > > intersects with stuff you want to move.
> > >
> > > So anyway, keep in mind that your diving into a pretty comprehensive
> > > ERP system, but one that is made up of what people have seen fit to
> > > contribute for free. An extremely wide variety of data structures
> > > and common business processes are represented in the system, though
> > > many are not complete, or at least not complete in the way your
> > > client will want to use them.
> > >
> > > The only way to really be sure is to document ALL business
> > > activities (usually easiest if organized by process and not by role
> > > or by system function), and then do an overlap/gap analysis to see
> > > how each business activity would be done in the system, or if there
> > > is not something to do it (or it is not adequate for what your users
> > > want) then detail what the system needs to do to help manage that
> > > activity. Once you've done that, then you'll know what the system
> > > can do for you as-is, and what needs to be done to expand and change
> > > the system to do what your client needs. Short of that, everything
> > > is a guess and guaranteed to be wrong (the only question is by how
> > > much and in which direction(s)...).
> > >
> > > To help with that I recommend this material (this is what I use
> > withclients):
> > >
> > > http://www.dejc.com/home/HEMP.html
> > >
> > > I'd also recommend looking at some of the generic business process
> > > stories that have come from OFBiz-based projects and been refined
> > > somewhat over the years (though keep in mind that these stories in
> > > some places represent activities that are not managed by OOTB OFBiz,
> > > ie these need an overlap/gap analysis document to make them more
> > meaningful):
> > >
> > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBREQDES/Universal
> > > +Business+Process+Library+Index
> > >
> > > Best of luck,
> > > -David
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sep 3, 2010, at 11:32 AM, Vadim Eisenberg wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hello BJ and other OfBiz developers,
> > > >
> > > > I was not subscribed to the mailing list so I did not receive the
> > answer
> > > > of BJ to my previous message -
> > > > <a href="http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/ofbiz-user/201009.mbox/%">http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/ofbiz-user/201009.mbox/%
> > > [hidden email]%3E
> > > > . Because of that I cannot post a response to it. Secondly, I used

a
> > wrong
> > > > MIME in my previous message, so all the bullets and formatting
were
> > > > missing. I am reposting the original message below in the right
format
> >
> > > > (any additional comments/opinions are welcome). In addition, my
> > response
> > > > to BJ follows. Sorry for the mess I created.
> > > >
> > > > Hi BJ,
> > > >
> > > > Thank you for your prompt response. I think I've got the general
idea.
> > I
> > > > still would like to ask a question about learning OfBiz:
> > > > The three volumes of the data model book comprise about 1700 pages

> > > > together. Should I use the book as a reference or do I have to
read
> > all
> > > > the three volumes before starting my work on OfBiz ? Which parts
of

> > the
> > > > book are required before I begin my work ?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks & Regards,
> > > > Vadim
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > My original message:
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

===========================================================================================================
> > > > Hello OfBiz developers,
> > > >
> > > > My name is Vadim Eisenberg and I work at IBM Research - Haifa, on
the
> > > > UniversAAL project - http://universaal.org/. It is a consortium
> > European
> > > > project. Its goal is to create a platform for applications,
services
> > and
> > > > devices for Ambient Assisted Living, that is a kind of "Smart
Home"

> > for
> > > > senior citizens. As part of the platform, we - several software
> > developers
> > > > - have to develop an e-commerce site - uStore
> > > > http://universaal.org/index.php?
> > > option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=9&Itemid=21
> > > > . This site would be a one-stop-shop for software, services and
> > devices
> > > > for Ambient Assisted Living.
> > > >
> > > > We consider using OfBiz for implementation of uStore.
> > > >
> > > > I would like to ask you several questions about the features we

want
> > to
> > > > implement. I would be glad to hear any information you can tell me

> > about
> > > > how hard could it be for us to implement these features. Please
note
> > that
> > > > we have no prior experience with OfBiz.
> > > >
> > > > Any your thoughts, intuition, experience, advice about
OfBiz/business
> > > > programming are welcome.
> > > >
> > > > In particular, the following information would help us very much :
> > > > How much work should be done by us in order to implement all the
> > features
> > > > that follow (Person/Months, Person/Years, for skilled OfBiz
> > > > developers/general software engineers). Which part would be to use

> > > > existing "extension" mechanisms of OfBiz and which part would be
> > actually
> > > > changing the OfBiz code ? Here your intuition/experience from
related
> > > > projects is welcome, we do not need exact numbers, just a
ballpark.
> > > > How much time the general software developers have to learn about
> > OfBiz
> > > > and how skilled in OfBiz  they should become in order to implement

> > these
> > > > features
> > > >
> > > >        E-commerce website features:
> > > > Using e-commerce site for selling software (such as AppStore of
> > iPhone)
> > > > and downloadable files in general (video, presentations of courses

> > etc.).
> > > > Here the issue is to manage links where the bought files could be
> > > > downloaded. The idea is to prevent a situation in which buyers
would
> > buy a
> > > > software application, receive a link to it for downloading and
share
> > the
> > > > link afterwards with anybody they want, so anybody would be able
to
> > > > download the application without paying for it.
> > > > Using e-commerce site for selling services (human services and
others)
> > > > Extending e-commerce site with general widgets, such as calendar,
> > clock,
> > > > map, a widget for downloading files, etc., and integrating the
widgets
> >
> > > > with the OfBiz
> > > >
> > > > Integration with other websites/services:
> > > > Integrating an e-commerce website with another (non-OfBiz backed)
site
> > -
> > > > adding possibility for sellers to add products to the e-commerce
site
> > via
> > > > the other site, to see customer feedback provided on the
e-commerce
> > site
> > > > via the other site
> > > > Integrating an e-commerce website with another (possibly
non-OfBiz)
> > > > e-commerce website, such as eBay/Amazon. What are the current
> > > > possibilities of integration with eBay ?
> > > > Integrating an e-commerce website with post/delivery
services/sites
> > > >
> > > > Adding advanced features:
> > > > Adding support for signing business contracts between service
> > consumers
> > > > and service providers, between providers of different services
etc.
> > via
> > > > the e-commerce site
> > > > Adding support for applying capability/requirement model, such as
> > > > JSR-124,  (for example  for matching between customer's
requirements
> > and
> > > > capabilities of software, devices and services). The customer or
> > software
> > > > agent on behalf of the customer could provide his requirements as
part
> > of
> > > > his account information, and the e-commerce solution would match
> > between
> > > > the products (according to their capabilities) and the
requirements of
> > the
> > > > customers.
> > > > Has OfBiz a recommendation engine (providing recommendations to a
user
> >
> > > > based on his activity - searches, purchases, reviews etc.) ? If
no,
> > how
> > > > hard would it be to add it ?
> > > > Can the OfBiz-based e-commerce web site be presented by browsers
of
> > smart
> > > > phones  ? How hard would it be to enable it ?
> > > > Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the
> > requirements
> > > > of the customer
> > > > Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the
> > geolocation of
> > > > the customer
> > > > Adding support for customization of products/services and changes
in
> > the
> > > > prices according to the customization during the purchase process
> > > > Adding support for a composition solution of hardware, software
and
> > human
> > > > services (bundles, kits). A seller could compose a new product by
> > > > combining several existing products
> > > > Adding support for manual approval of products by site
administrators
> > > > before submission of the products to the e-commerce site
> > > > Adding support for managing versions of the software applications
that

> > are
> > > > sold on the e-commerce website
> > > >
> > > > Sorry for so many questions and sorry if some of them are out of
> > context.
> > > >
> > > > Best Regards,
> > > > Vadim
> > > > -------------------------------
> > > > Vadim Eisenberg
> > > > IT for Healthcare & Life Sciences
> > > > IBM Research - Haifa
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
>

[BJ Freeman]

I want to expand the conversation about using Ofbiz not just Ecommerce.
First let start by thinking that everything is a system, living is a system.
Everything we do is a bunch of black boxes with input and outputs, with
the processes to deal with the input and create the output.
To address ERP, we all in our lives, implement resource planning, some
better than others.
An example is meal planning. Though most do this second nature from a
lot of experience, it can also be model in software.
So how does resource-planning work in the home? From the Power used to
do things like cooking, heating, to house repair is all resource planning.
The “E” part simply defines the max scope of the software to handle such
activities.

Most of your specs  for a “requirements Engine” is resources planning.
The end Goal is do we have the necessary resources to do something.
One of those resources is Cash. For seniors this is paramount if they
are on a fixed income. Resource planning and creating a budget is
something Ofbiz can do with some added customization or expanding the
current system.

Have you thought to use Ofbiz to develop the requirements of you AAL
project?
Use the Project manager will give you feel for what I mean.

So lets talk about Ofbiz.
You have a framework that already does a lot, you specify a entity and
its relationship then with just a few commands you have that available
for the Screenlet.
Layered on top of the framework is the Application that are generic to
most of living but is primarily focused on business.

Then you have the specific layer like Ecommerce and manufacturing.
Now don’t discount manufacturing since that is what you do in the
kitchen as recipes.

I am serious when I say David is Architect a comprehensive system that
can used in every aspect of our lives.

So I would suggest:
1)Download Ofbiz and run it in Localhost  mode as a desktop to use the
project manager and get feel for what it does.
2)Put it on a server so others in you group can do projects and tasks.


=========================
BJ Freeman  <http://bjfreeman.elance.com>
Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation  <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
Specialtymarket.com  <http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist

Chat  Y! messenger: bjfr33man



Vadim Eisenberg sent the following on 9/5/2010 12:01 AM:

> Hi BJ,
>
> It is an interesting idea ! You actually propose to use OfBiz as the core
> platform for the AAL, and not only as an e-commerce solution. We will
> consider it as an option. However, I would say that it seems that it could
> be an overkill to use an ERP solution as a general platform for
> applications and devices. This option could be too heavy, in terms of
> unneeded code/unneeded business features/high learning curve etc.. The
> idea is definitely interesting, though.
>
> Best Regards,
> Vadim
> -------------------------------
> Vadim Eisenberg
> IT for Healthcare&  Life Sciences
> IBM Research - Haifa
>
>
> BJ Freeman<[hidden email]>  wrote on 04/09/2010 04:37:21 PM:
>
>> From:
>>
>> BJ Freeman<[hidden email]>
>>
>> To:
>>
>> [hidden email]
>>
>> Date:
>>
>> 04/09/2010 04:38 PM
>>
>> Subject:
>>
>> Re: OfBiz e-commerce customization
>>
>> one of the concepts that is hard for most web developers is ofbiz
>> Ecommerce is like a third Tier Application.
>> Ecommerce depends on all the other Back-end applications and the
> framework.
>> So you don't design a page then add the data in the db to support it.
>> Also you will find the Ecommerce in the Second Volume starting about
>> page 393.
>> You can also look at the data model for Health care in Vol II.
>> There is a section about Health Care Delivery. mind you this is only
>> data modeling and the actual business logic and UI has to be developed.
>>
>> My back ground is hardware automation as well as embedded applications.
>> in the 70's I designed a home that was automated, it used compressed air
>
>> and cylinders for activation of doors and ramps. At that time proximity
>> sensors were all that was available.
>>
>> I say this because of your focus.
>> Being nearly 70 I have worked towards a computer companion, as such,
>> using AI. its purpose was to be my guide when I got too forgetful.
>>
>> so here is something you may not have considered. Ofbiz as the Home
>> automation with in the home.
>> Ofbiz has a sync capability used in the POS that could be used to sync
>> the ofbiz running in the home with the main website.
>> This way each person would have their own personalize themes for their
> home.
>> this would be an embedded Linux server with touch screen. it is all
>> enclosed.
>> you would use the network that automatically connects to other network
>> nodes and builds an Intranet in the home. this allows for other systems
>> to interact with ofbiz.
>>
>> The Framework of ofbiz has the ability to run schedule services. the
>> scripts for the services can be modified without re-compiling or
>> restarting ofbiz, though the actual service defs do require a restart if
>
>> changed or added. this is being worked on so the home system can be
>> updated on the fly.
>>
>> There is also a Setup component that can be added to for new components.
>>
>> needless to say I very sold on ofbiz and what it can do.
>> it does though, as David said have places that need to fleshed out.
>>
>> =========================
>>
>> BJ Freeman
>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation<http://
>> www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>
>> Chat  Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>
>> Vadim Eisenberg sent the following on 9/4/2010 1:02 AM:
>>
>>> Hi David,
>>>
>>> Thank you for your answer and explanations. I failed with the
> formatting
>>> for the second time, so I will try to write in plain text from now on.
>>>
>>> You wrote: "when asking questions here please keep in mind that
> responses
>>> you get are volunteer responses and the only qualification you can be
> sure
>>> of for those responding
>>> is that they are capable of subscribing to the mailing list. If many
>>> people respond with something
>>> consistent then it is a safer bet that you can rely on the
> information,
>>> but usually not otherwise."
>>>
>>> I guess this is how Open Source works :) ? by volunteers contributing
> code
>>> to the product and answering questions in the mailing lists. I still
> would
>>> like to hear as much opinions as possible from the developers "in the
>>> trenches", so anybody is welcome to provide them. I would like to
> thank BJ
>>> again for providing his opinions.
>>>
>>> Please note that the project I participate in, is a kind of Research
> and
>>> Development project, sponsored by EU and implemented by a consortium
> of
>>> academic and industrial partners. The project is planned for four
> years
>>> (ending in January 2014). One of its goals is to create an open source
>>> implementation of an e-commerce solution - uStore, suited for the
> field of
>>> AAL - Ambient Assisted Living (that is a kind of "smart home" for
> senior
>>> citizens). The main concept of uStore is similar to the concept of
>>> AppStore of Apple ? the AAL application developers would be able to
> upload
>>> and sell their applications from the store. In addition to that, AAL
>>> related devices and human services would be sold. An additional
> important
>>> feature is to integrate "social commerce" ? user reviews, blogs,
> forums
>>> etc.
>>>
>>> Please note that developing uStore is Research and Development and
> there
>>> are not yet concrete AAL businesses that would immediately use it. The
>>> goal is to provide some reference open source implementation in four
>>> years. This implementation would be later supported and extended by an
>>> open-source community according to the business needs of AAL
> businesses,
>>> once some real AAL businesses would use it. One of the goals is to
> reuse
>>> the existing open-source OOTB solutions in any field as much as
> possible
>>> in order to save resources as much as possible.
>>>
>>> As a result of the situation, the accent here is more on e-commerce
>>> features of existing e-commerce solutions, especially related to the
>>> e-commerce frontend, than on their ERP features. We would like to use
> the
>>> simplest and the most straightforward standard business model
> (preferably
>>> OOTB) for e-commerce and invest more resources into the frontend
> features.
>>> By the frontend features I mean the website, its accessibility,
> including
>>> presentation on smart phones, search, recommendations, user reviews,
> blogs
>>> and forums etc. As I understand the strength of OfBiz is actually its
> rich
>>> ERP data model, however here we probably do not need the advanced ERP
>>> features of OfBiz.
>>>
>>> I have read your HEMP Light document ? it was interesting and provided
>>> some insights for me. Currently we are in process of finalizing the
> use
>>> cases/requirements of the uStore and evaluating existing e-commerce
>>> solutions, with OfBiz being one of the main candidates.
>>>
>>> Thanks&   Regards,
>>> Vadim
>>>
>>> -------------------------------
>>> Vadim Eisenberg
>>> IT for Healthcare&   Life Sciences
>>> IBM Research - Haifa
>>>
>>>
>>> David E Jones<[hidden email]>   wrote on 03/09/2010 10:00:38 PM:
>>>
>>>> From:
>>>>
>>>> David E Jones<[hidden email]>
>>>>
>>>> To:
>>>>
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>
>>>> Date:
>>>>
>>>> 03/09/2010 10:01 PM
>>>>
>>>> Subject:
>>>>
>>>> Re: OfBiz e-commerce customization
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Vadim,
>>>>
>>>> About your formatting: this mailing list filters out all HTML
>>>> because HTML email messages tend to be VERY large and the Apache
>>>> Software Foundation in general has many thousands of messages going
>>>> through mailing lists every day.
>>>>
>>>> Back to your original question: when asking questions here please
>>>> keep in mind that responses you get are volunteer responses and the
>>>> only qualification you can be sure of for those responding is that
>>>> they are capable of subscribing to the mailing list. If many people
>>>> respond with something consistent then it is a safer bet that you
>>>> can rely on the information, but usually not otherwise. With a
>>>> question as long and involved as yours chances are you'll only get a
>>>> small number of responses, and chances are your experience will be
>>>> VERY different from those few who do respond.
>>>>
>>>> OFBiz is a large project. A good developer can learn to work
>>>> effectively with the framework with a couple of weeks of training
>>>> and a couple of months of hands-on development. However, even a good
>>>> developer will have a hard time picking up all of the data
>>>> structures and business logic even after many months of study, and
>>>> realistically since most people don't or can't do that, it usually
>>>> takes years of work experience and even then they'll only have
>>>> knowledge of the parts of the system that have had the opportunity
>>>> to work with.
>>>>
>>>> Understanding the business side is much easier for someone who has a
>>>> good business background, and by good business background I mean
>>>> really good experience with how businesses actually operate and what
>>>> sorts of information businesses actually keep track of when
>>>> operating. Sometimes people coming out of university business
>>>> programs will have this, but most of the time they do not. Most
>>>> people with business degrees will have learned more about laws and
>>>> how to manipulate people than about the myriad of complexities of
>>>> managing a warehouse, handling purchasing, or tracking information
>>>> about products to facility the many touch points with those products
>>>> throughout the company, and making it easy for customers to find
>>>> products they want, or how to figure out where customer interest
>>>> intersects with stuff you want to move.
>>>>
>>>> So anyway, keep in mind that your diving into a pretty comprehensive
>>>> ERP system, but one that is made up of what people have seen fit to
>>>> contribute for free. An extremely wide variety of data structures
>>>> and common business processes are represented in the system, though
>>>> many are not complete, or at least not complete in the way your
>>>> client will want to use them.
>>>>
>>>> The only way to really be sure is to document ALL business
>>>> activities (usually easiest if organized by process and not by role
>>>> or by system function), and then do an overlap/gap analysis to see
>>>> how each business activity would be done in the system, or if there
>>>> is not something to do it (or it is not adequate for what your users
>>>> want) then detail what the system needs to do to help manage that
>>>> activity. Once you've done that, then you'll know what the system
>>>> can do for you as-is, and what needs to be done to expand and change
>>>> the system to do what your client needs. Short of that, everything
>>>> is a guess and guaranteed to be wrong (the only question is by how
>>>> much and in which direction(s)...).
>>>>
>>>> To help with that I recommend this material (this is what I use
>>> withclients):
>>>>
>>>> http://www.dejc.com/home/HEMP.html
>>>>
>>>> I'd also recommend looking at some of the generic business process
>>>> stories that have come from OFBiz-based projects and been refined
>>>> somewhat over the years (though keep in mind that these stories in
>>>> some places represent activities that are not managed by OOTB OFBiz,
>>>> ie these need an overlap/gap analysis document to make them more
>>> meaningful):
>>>>
>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBREQDES/Universal
>>>> +Business+Process+Library+Index
>>>>
>>>> Best of luck,
>>>> -David
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sep 3, 2010, at 11:32 AM, Vadim Eisenberg wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hello BJ and other OfBiz developers,
>>>>>
>>>>> I was not subscribed to the mailing list so I did not receive the
>>> answer
>>>>> of BJ to my previous message -
>>>>> <a href="http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/ofbiz-user/201009.mbox/%">http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/ofbiz-user/201009.mbox/%
>>>> [hidden email]%3E
>>>>> . Because of that I cannot post a response to it. Secondly, I used a
>>> wrong
>>>>> MIME in my previous message, so all the bullets and formatting were
>>>>> missing. I am reposting the original message below in the right
> format
>>>
>>>>> (any additional comments/opinions are welcome). In addition, my
>>> response
>>>>> to BJ follows. Sorry for the mess I created.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi BJ,
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you for your prompt response. I think I've got the general
> idea.
>>> I
>>>>> still would like to ask a question about learning OfBiz:
>>>>> The three volumes of the data model book comprise about 1700 pages
>>>>> together. Should I use the book as a reference or do I have to read
>>> all
>>>>> the three volumes before starting my work on OfBiz ? Which parts of
>>> the
>>>>> book are required before I begin my work ?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks&   Regards,
>>>>> Vadim
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> My original message:
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
> ===========================================================================================================
>>>>> Hello OfBiz developers,
>>>>>
>>>>> My name is Vadim Eisenberg and I work at IBM Research - Haifa, on
> the
>>>>> UniversAAL project - http://universaal.org/. It is a consortium
>>> European
>>>>> project. Its goal is to create a platform for applications, services
>>> and
>>>>> devices for Ambient Assisted Living, that is a kind of "Smart Home"
>>> for
>>>>> senior citizens. As part of the platform, we - several software
>>> developers
>>>>> - have to develop an e-commerce site - uStore
>>>>> http://universaal.org/index.php?
>>>> option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=9&Itemid=21
>>>>> . This site would be a one-stop-shop for software, services and
>>> devices
>>>>> for Ambient Assisted Living.
>>>>>
>>>>> We consider using OfBiz for implementation of uStore.
>>>>>
>>>>> I would like to ask you several questions about the features we want
>>> to
>>>>> implement. I would be glad to hear any information you can tell me
>>> about
>>>>> how hard could it be for us to implement these features. Please note
>>> that
>>>>> we have no prior experience with OfBiz.
>>>>>
>>>>> Any your thoughts, intuition, experience, advice about
> OfBiz/business
>>>>> programming are welcome.
>>>>>
>>>>> In particular, the following information would help us very much :
>>>>> How much work should be done by us in order to implement all the
>>> features
>>>>> that follow (Person/Months, Person/Years, for skilled OfBiz
>>>>> developers/general software engineers). Which part would be to use
>>>>> existing "extension" mechanisms of OfBiz and which part would be
>>> actually
>>>>> changing the OfBiz code ? Here your intuition/experience from
> related
>>>>> projects is welcome, we do not need exact numbers, just a ballpark.
>>>>> How much time the general software developers have to learn about
>>> OfBiz
>>>>> and how skilled in OfBiz  they should become in order to implement
>>> these
>>>>> features
>>>>>
>>>>>          E-commerce website features:
>>>>> Using e-commerce site for selling software (such as AppStore of
>>> iPhone)
>>>>> and downloadable files in general (video, presentations of courses
>>> etc.).
>>>>> Here the issue is to manage links where the bought files could be
>>>>> downloaded. The idea is to prevent a situation in which buyers would
>>> buy a
>>>>> software application, receive a link to it for downloading and share
>>> the
>>>>> link afterwards with anybody they want, so anybody would be able to
>>>>> download the application without paying for it.
>>>>> Using e-commerce site for selling services (human services and
> others)
>>>>> Extending e-commerce site with general widgets, such as calendar,
>>> clock,
>>>>> map, a widget for downloading files, etc., and integrating the
> widgets
>>>
>>>>> with the OfBiz
>>>>>
>>>>> Integration with other websites/services:
>>>>> Integrating an e-commerce website with another (non-OfBiz backed)
> site
>>> -
>>>>> adding possibility for sellers to add products to the e-commerce
> site
>>> via
>>>>> the other site, to see customer feedback provided on the e-commerce
>>> site
>>>>> via the other site
>>>>> Integrating an e-commerce website with another (possibly non-OfBiz)
>>>>> e-commerce website, such as eBay/Amazon. What are the current
>>>>> possibilities of integration with eBay ?
>>>>> Integrating an e-commerce website with post/delivery services/sites
>>>>>
>>>>> Adding advanced features:
>>>>> Adding support for signing business contracts between service
>>> consumers
>>>>> and service providers, between providers of different services etc.
>>> via
>>>>> the e-commerce site
>>>>> Adding support for applying capability/requirement model, such as
>>>>> JSR-124,  (for example  for matching between customer's requirements
>>> and
>>>>> capabilities of software, devices and services). The customer or
>>> software
>>>>> agent on behalf of the customer could provide his requirements as
> part
>>> of
>>>>> his account information, and the e-commerce solution would match
>>> between
>>>>> the products (according to their capabilities) and the requirements
> of
>>> the
>>>>> customers.
>>>>> Has OfBiz a recommendation engine (providing recommendations to a
> user
>>>
>>>>> based on his activity - searches, purchases, reviews etc.) ? If no,
>>> how
>>>>> hard would it be to add it ?
>>>>> Can the OfBiz-based e-commerce web site be presented by browsers of
>>> smart
>>>>> phones  ? How hard would it be to enable it ?
>>>>> Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the
>>> requirements
>>>>> of the customer
>>>>> Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the
>>> geolocation of
>>>>> the customer
>>>>> Adding support for customization of products/services and changes in
>>> the
>>>>> prices according to the customization during the purchase process
>>>>> Adding support for a composition solution of hardware, software and
>>> human
>>>>> services (bundles, kits). A seller could compose a new product by
>>>>> combining several existing products
>>>>> Adding support for manual approval of products by site
> administrators
>>>>> before submission of the products to the e-commerce site
>>>>> Adding support for managing versions of the software applications
> that
>>> are
>>>>> sold on the e-commerce website
>>>>>
>>>>> Sorry for so many questions and sorry if some of them are out of
>>> context.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best Regards,
>>>>> Vadim
>>>>> -------------------------------
>>>>> Vadim Eisenberg
>>>>> IT for Healthcare&   Life Sciences
>>>>> IBM Research - Haifa
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>

[Bruno Busco]

Yes, Vadim, consider also that there is an in-progress work aimed to better
separate the framework from the higher level applications.
This will let users like you use the power of the framework with just the
part they need of the higher applications.
-Bruno

2010/9/5 BJ Freeman <[hidden email]>

> I want to expand the conversation about using Ofbiz not just Ecommerce.
> First let start by thinking that everything is a system, living is a
> system.
> Everything we do is a bunch of black boxes with input and outputs, with the
> processes to deal with the input and create the output.
> To address ERP, we all in our lives, implement resource planning, some
> better than others.
> An example is meal planning. Though most do this second nature from a lot
> of experience, it can also be model in software.
> So how does resource-planning work in the home? From the Power used to do
> things like cooking, heating, to house repair is all resource planning.
> The “E” part simply defines the max scope of the software to handle such
> activities.
>
> Most of your specs  for a “requirements Engine” is resources planning.
> The end Goal is do we have the necessary resources to do something.
> One of those resources is Cash. For seniors this is paramount if they are
> on a fixed income. Resource planning and creating a budget is something
> Ofbiz can do with some added customization or expanding the current system.
>
> Have you thought to use Ofbiz to develop the requirements of you AAL
> project?
> Use the Project manager will give you feel for what I mean.
>
> So lets talk about Ofbiz.
> You have a framework that already does a lot, you specify a entity and its
> relationship then with just a few commands you have that available for the
> Screenlet.
> Layered on top of the framework is the Application that are generic to most
> of living but is primarily focused on business.
>
> Then you have the specific layer like Ecommerce and manufacturing.
> Now don’t discount manufacturing since that is what you do in the kitchen
> as recipes.
>
> I am serious when I say David is Architect a comprehensive system that can
> used in every aspect of our lives.
>
> So I would suggest:
> 1)Download Ofbiz and run it in Localhost  mode as a desktop to use the
> project manager and get feel for what it does.
> 2)Put it on a server so others in you group can do projects and tasks.
>
>
> =========================
> BJ Freeman  <http://bjfreeman.elance.com>
> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation  <
> http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
> Specialtymarket.com  <http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>
> Chat  Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>
>
>
> Vadim Eisenberg sent the following on 9/5/2010 12:01 AM:
>
>
>  Hi BJ,
>>
>> It is an interesting idea ! You actually propose to use OfBiz as the core
>> platform for the AAL, and not only as an e-commerce solution. We will
>> consider it as an option. However, I would say that it seems that it could
>> be an overkill to use an ERP solution as a general platform for
>> applications and devices. This option could be too heavy, in terms of
>> unneeded code/unneeded business features/high learning curve etc.. The
>> idea is definitely interesting, though.
>>
>> Best Regards,
>> Vadim
>> -------------------------------
>> Vadim Eisenberg
>> IT for Healthcare&  Life Sciences
>> IBM Research - Haifa
>>
>>
>> BJ Freeman<[hidden email]>  wrote on 04/09/2010 04:37:21 PM:
>>
>>  From:
>>>
>>> BJ Freeman<[hidden email]>
>>>
>>> To:
>>>
>>> [hidden email]
>>>
>>> Date:
>>>
>>> 04/09/2010 04:38 PM
>>>
>>> Subject:
>>>
>>> Re: OfBiz e-commerce customization
>>>
>>> one of the concepts that is hard for most web developers is ofbiz
>>> Ecommerce is like a third Tier Application.
>>> Ecommerce depends on all the other Back-end applications and the
>>>
>> framework.
>>
>>> So you don't design a page then add the data in the db to support it.
>>> Also you will find the Ecommerce in the Second Volume starting about
>>> page 393.
>>> You can also look at the data model for Health care in Vol II.
>>> There is a section about Health Care Delivery. mind you this is only
>>> data modeling and the actual business logic and UI has to be developed.
>>>
>>> My back ground is hardware automation as well as embedded applications.
>>> in the 70's I designed a home that was automated, it used compressed air
>>>
>>
>>  and cylinders for activation of doors and ramps. At that time proximity
>>> sensors were all that was available.
>>>
>>> I say this because of your focus.
>>> Being nearly 70 I have worked towards a computer companion, as such,
>>> using AI. its purpose was to be my guide when I got too forgetful.
>>>
>>> so here is something you may not have considered. Ofbiz as the Home
>>> automation with in the home.
>>> Ofbiz has a sync capability used in the POS that could be used to sync
>>> the ofbiz running in the home with the main website.
>>> This way each person would have their own personalize themes for their
>>>
>> home.
>>
>>> this would be an embedded Linux server with touch screen. it is all
>>> enclosed.
>>> you would use the network that automatically connects to other network
>>> nodes and builds an Intranet in the home. this allows for other systems
>>> to interact with ofbiz.
>>>
>>> The Framework of ofbiz has the ability to run schedule services. the
>>> scripts for the services can be modified without re-compiling or
>>> restarting ofbiz, though the actual service defs do require a restart if
>>>
>>
>>  changed or added. this is being worked on so the home system can be
>>> updated on the fly.
>>>
>>> There is also a Setup component that can be added to for new components.
>>>
>>> needless to say I very sold on ofbiz and what it can do.
>>> it does though, as David said have places that need to fleshed out.
>>>
>>> =========================
>>>
>>> BJ Freeman
>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation<http://
>>> www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>>
>>> Chat  Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>>
>>> Vadim Eisenberg sent the following on 9/4/2010 1:02 AM:
>>>
>>>  Hi David,
>>>>
>>>> Thank you for your answer and explanations. I failed with the
>>>>
>>> formatting
>>
>>> for the second time, so I will try to write in plain text from now on.
>>>>
>>>> You wrote: "when asking questions here please keep in mind that
>>>>
>>> responses
>>
>>> you get are volunteer responses and the only qualification you can be
>>>>
>>> sure
>>
>>> of for those responding
>>>> is that they are capable of subscribing to the mailing list. If many
>>>> people respond with something
>>>> consistent then it is a safer bet that you can rely on the
>>>>
>>> information,
>>
>>> but usually not otherwise."
>>>>
>>>> I guess this is how Open Source works :) ? by volunteers contributing
>>>>
>>> code
>>
>>> to the product and answering questions in the mailing lists. I still
>>>>
>>> would
>>
>>> like to hear as much opinions as possible from the developers "in the
>>>> trenches", so anybody is welcome to provide them. I would like to
>>>>
>>> thank BJ
>>
>>> again for providing his opinions.
>>>>
>>>> Please note that the project I participate in, is a kind of Research
>>>>
>>> and
>>
>>> Development project, sponsored by EU and implemented by a consortium
>>>>
>>> of
>>
>>> academic and industrial partners. The project is planned for four
>>>>
>>> years
>>
>>> (ending in January 2014). One of its goals is to create an open source
>>>> implementation of an e-commerce solution - uStore, suited for the
>>>>
>>> field of
>>
>>> AAL - Ambient Assisted Living (that is a kind of "smart home" for
>>>>
>>> senior
>>
>>> citizens). The main concept of uStore is similar to the concept of
>>>> AppStore of Apple ? the AAL application developers would be able to
>>>>
>>> upload
>>
>>> and sell their applications from the store. In addition to that, AAL
>>>> related devices and human services would be sold. An additional
>>>>
>>> important
>>
>>> feature is to integrate "social commerce" ? user reviews, blogs,
>>>>
>>> forums
>>
>>> etc.
>>>>
>>>> Please note that developing uStore is Research and Development and
>>>>
>>> there
>>
>>> are not yet concrete AAL businesses that would immediately use it. The
>>>> goal is to provide some reference open source implementation in four
>>>> years. This implementation would be later supported and extended by an
>>>> open-source community according to the business needs of AAL
>>>>
>>> businesses,
>>
>>> once some real AAL businesses would use it. One of the goals is to
>>>>
>>> reuse
>>
>>> the existing open-source OOTB solutions in any field as much as
>>>>
>>> possible
>>
>>> in order to save resources as much as possible.
>>>>
>>>> As a result of the situation, the accent here is more on e-commerce
>>>> features of existing e-commerce solutions, especially related to the
>>>> e-commerce frontend, than on their ERP features. We would like to use
>>>>
>>> the
>>
>>> simplest and the most straightforward standard business model
>>>>
>>> (preferably
>>
>>> OOTB) for e-commerce and invest more resources into the frontend
>>>>
>>> features.
>>
>>> By the frontend features I mean the website, its accessibility,
>>>>
>>> including
>>
>>> presentation on smart phones, search, recommendations, user reviews,
>>>>
>>> blogs
>>
>>> and forums etc. As I understand the strength of OfBiz is actually its
>>>>
>>> rich
>>
>>> ERP data model, however here we probably do not need the advanced ERP
>>>> features of OfBiz.
>>>>
>>>> I have read your HEMP Light document ? it was interesting and provided
>>>> some insights for me. Currently we are in process of finalizing the
>>>>
>>> use
>>
>>> cases/requirements of the uStore and evaluating existing e-commerce
>>>> solutions, with OfBiz being one of the main candidates.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks&   Regards,
>>>> Vadim
>>>>
>>>> -------------------------------
>>>> Vadim Eisenberg
>>>> IT for Healthcare&   Life Sciences
>>>> IBM Research - Haifa
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> David E Jones<[hidden email]>   wrote on 03/09/2010 10:00:38 PM:
>>>>
>>>>  From:
>>>>>
>>>>> David E Jones<[hidden email]>
>>>>>
>>>>> To:
>>>>>
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>
>>>>> Date:
>>>>>
>>>>> 03/09/2010 10:01 PM
>>>>>
>>>>> Subject:
>>>>>
>>>>> Re: OfBiz e-commerce customization
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Vadim,
>>>>>
>>>>> About your formatting: this mailing list filters out all HTML
>>>>> because HTML email messages tend to be VERY large and the Apache
>>>>> Software Foundation in general has many thousands of messages going
>>>>> through mailing lists every day.
>>>>>
>>>>> Back to your original question: when asking questions here please
>>>>> keep in mind that responses you get are volunteer responses and the
>>>>> only qualification you can be sure of for those responding is that
>>>>> they are capable of subscribing to the mailing list. If many people
>>>>> respond with something consistent then it is a safer bet that you
>>>>> can rely on the information, but usually not otherwise. With a
>>>>> question as long and involved as yours chances are you'll only get a
>>>>> small number of responses, and chances are your experience will be
>>>>> VERY different from those few who do respond.
>>>>>
>>>>> OFBiz is a large project. A good developer can learn to work
>>>>> effectively with the framework with a couple of weeks of training
>>>>> and a couple of months of hands-on development. However, even a good
>>>>> developer will have a hard time picking up all of the data
>>>>> structures and business logic even after many months of study, and
>>>>> realistically since most people don't or can't do that, it usually
>>>>> takes years of work experience and even then they'll only have
>>>>> knowledge of the parts of the system that have had the opportunity
>>>>> to work with.
>>>>>
>>>>> Understanding the business side is much easier for someone who has a
>>>>> good business background, and by good business background I mean
>>>>> really good experience with how businesses actually operate and what
>>>>> sorts of information businesses actually keep track of when
>>>>> operating. Sometimes people coming out of university business
>>>>> programs will have this, but most of the time they do not. Most
>>>>> people with business degrees will have learned more about laws and
>>>>> how to manipulate people than about the myriad of complexities of
>>>>> managing a warehouse, handling purchasing, or tracking information
>>>>> about products to facility the many touch points with those products
>>>>> throughout the company, and making it easy for customers to find
>>>>> products they want, or how to figure out where customer interest
>>>>> intersects with stuff you want to move.
>>>>>
>>>>> So anyway, keep in mind that your diving into a pretty comprehensive
>>>>> ERP system, but one that is made up of what people have seen fit to
>>>>> contribute for free. An extremely wide variety of data structures
>>>>> and common business processes are represented in the system, though
>>>>> many are not complete, or at least not complete in the way your
>>>>> client will want to use them.
>>>>>
>>>>> The only way to really be sure is to document ALL business
>>>>> activities (usually easiest if organized by process and not by role
>>>>> or by system function), and then do an overlap/gap analysis to see
>>>>> how each business activity would be done in the system, or if there
>>>>> is not something to do it (or it is not adequate for what your users
>>>>> want) then detail what the system needs to do to help manage that
>>>>> activity. Once you've done that, then you'll know what the system
>>>>> can do for you as-is, and what needs to be done to expand and change
>>>>> the system to do what your client needs. Short of that, everything
>>>>> is a guess and guaranteed to be wrong (the only question is by how
>>>>> much and in which direction(s)...).
>>>>>
>>>>> To help with that I recommend this material (this is what I use
>>>>>
>>>> withclients):
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.dejc.com/home/HEMP.html
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd also recommend looking at some of the generic business process
>>>>> stories that have come from OFBiz-based projects and been refined
>>>>> somewhat over the years (though keep in mind that these stories in
>>>>> some places represent activities that are not managed by OOTB OFBiz,
>>>>> ie these need an overlap/gap analysis document to make them more
>>>>>
>>>> meaningful):
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBREQDES/Universal
>>>>> +Business+Process+Library+Index
>>>>>
>>>>> Best of luck,
>>>>> -David
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sep 3, 2010, at 11:32 AM, Vadim Eisenberg wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>  Hello BJ and other OfBiz developers,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I was not subscribed to the mailing list so I did not receive the
>>>>>>
>>>>> answer
>>>>
>>>>> of BJ to my previous message -
>>>>>> <a href="http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/ofbiz-user/201009.mbox/%">http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/ofbiz-user/201009.mbox/%
>>>>>>
>>>>> [hidden email]%3E
>>>>>
>>>>>> . Because of that I cannot post a response to it. Secondly, I used a
>>>>>>
>>>>> wrong
>>>>
>>>>> MIME in my previous message, so all the bullets and formatting were
>>>>>> missing. I am reposting the original message below in the right
>>>>>>
>>>>> format
>>
>>>
>>>>  (any additional comments/opinions are welcome). In addition, my
>>>>>>
>>>>> response
>>>>
>>>>> to BJ follows. Sorry for the mess I created.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi BJ,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you for your prompt response. I think I've got the general
>>>>>>
>>>>> idea.
>>
>>> I
>>>>
>>>>> still would like to ask a question about learning OfBiz:
>>>>>> The three volumes of the data model book comprise about 1700 pages
>>>>>> together. Should I use the book as a reference or do I have to read
>>>>>>
>>>>> all
>>>>
>>>>> the three volumes before starting my work on OfBiz ? Which parts of
>>>>>>
>>>>> the
>>>>
>>>>> book are required before I begin my work ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks&   Regards,
>>>>>> Vadim
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My original message:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>> ===========================================================================================================
>>
>>> Hello OfBiz developers,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My name is Vadim Eisenberg and I work at IBM Research - Haifa, on
>>>>>>
>>>>> the
>>
>>> UniversAAL project - http://universaal.org/. It is a consortium
>>>>>>
>>>>> European
>>>>
>>>>> project. Its goal is to create a platform for applications, services
>>>>>>
>>>>> and
>>>>
>>>>> devices for Ambient Assisted Living, that is a kind of "Smart Home"
>>>>>>
>>>>> for
>>>>
>>>>> senior citizens. As part of the platform, we - several software
>>>>>>
>>>>> developers
>>>>
>>>>> - have to develop an e-commerce site - uStore
>>>>>> http://universaal.org/index.php?
>>>>>>
>>>>> option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=9&Itemid=21
>>>>>
>>>>>> . This site would be a one-stop-shop for software, services and
>>>>>>
>>>>> devices
>>>>
>>>>> for Ambient Assisted Living.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We consider using OfBiz for implementation of uStore.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would like to ask you several questions about the features we want
>>>>>>
>>>>> to
>>>>
>>>>> implement. I would be glad to hear any information you can tell me
>>>>>>
>>>>> about
>>>>
>>>>> how hard could it be for us to implement these features. Please note
>>>>>>
>>>>> that
>>>>
>>>>> we have no prior experience with OfBiz.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Any your thoughts, intuition, experience, advice about
>>>>>>
>>>>> OfBiz/business
>>
>>> programming are welcome.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In particular, the following information would help us very much :
>>>>>> How much work should be done by us in order to implement all the
>>>>>>
>>>>> features
>>>>
>>>>> that follow (Person/Months, Person/Years, for skilled OfBiz
>>>>>> developers/general software engineers). Which part would be to use
>>>>>> existing "extension" mechanisms of OfBiz and which part would be
>>>>>>
>>>>> actually
>>>>
>>>>> changing the OfBiz code ? Here your intuition/experience from
>>>>>>
>>>>> related
>>
>>> projects is welcome, we do not need exact numbers, just a ballpark.
>>>>>> How much time the general software developers have to learn about
>>>>>>
>>>>> OfBiz
>>>>
>>>>> and how skilled in OfBiz  they should become in order to implement
>>>>>>
>>>>> these
>>>>
>>>>> features
>>>>>>
>>>>>>         E-commerce website features:
>>>>>> Using e-commerce site for selling software (such as AppStore of
>>>>>>
>>>>> iPhone)
>>>>
>>>>> and downloadable files in general (video, presentations of courses
>>>>>>
>>>>> etc.).
>>>>
>>>>> Here the issue is to manage links where the bought files could be
>>>>>> downloaded. The idea is to prevent a situation in which buyers would
>>>>>>
>>>>> buy a
>>>>
>>>>> software application, receive a link to it for downloading and share
>>>>>>
>>>>> the
>>>>
>>>>> link afterwards with anybody they want, so anybody would be able to
>>>>>> download the application without paying for it.
>>>>>> Using e-commerce site for selling services (human services and
>>>>>>
>>>>> others)
>>
>>> Extending e-commerce site with general widgets, such as calendar,
>>>>>>
>>>>> clock,
>>>>
>>>>> map, a widget for downloading files, etc., and integrating the
>>>>>>
>>>>> widgets
>>
>>>
>>>>  with the OfBiz
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Integration with other websites/services:
>>>>>> Integrating an e-commerce website with another (non-OfBiz backed)
>>>>>>
>>>>> site
>>
>>> -
>>>>
>>>>> adding possibility for sellers to add products to the e-commerce
>>>>>>
>>>>> site
>>
>>> via
>>>>
>>>>> the other site, to see customer feedback provided on the e-commerce
>>>>>>
>>>>> site
>>>>
>>>>> via the other site
>>>>>> Integrating an e-commerce website with another (possibly non-OfBiz)
>>>>>> e-commerce website, such as eBay/Amazon. What are the current
>>>>>> possibilities of integration with eBay ?
>>>>>> Integrating an e-commerce website with post/delivery services/sites
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Adding advanced features:
>>>>>> Adding support for signing business contracts between service
>>>>>>
>>>>> consumers
>>>>
>>>>> and service providers, between providers of different services etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>> via
>>>>
>>>>> the e-commerce site
>>>>>> Adding support for applying capability/requirement model, such as
>>>>>> JSR-124,  (for example  for matching between customer's requirements
>>>>>>
>>>>> and
>>>>
>>>>> capabilities of software, devices and services). The customer or
>>>>>>
>>>>> software
>>>>
>>>>> agent on behalf of the customer could provide his requirements as
>>>>>>
>>>>> part
>>
>>> of
>>>>
>>>>> his account information, and the e-commerce solution would match
>>>>>>
>>>>> between
>>>>
>>>>> the products (according to their capabilities) and the requirements
>>>>>>
>>>>> of
>>
>>> the
>>>>
>>>>> customers.
>>>>>> Has OfBiz a recommendation engine (providing recommendations to a
>>>>>>
>>>>> user
>>
>>>
>>>>  based on his activity - searches, purchases, reviews etc.) ? If no,
>>>>>>
>>>>> how
>>>>
>>>>> hard would it be to add it ?
>>>>>> Can the OfBiz-based e-commerce web site be presented by browsers of
>>>>>>
>>>>> smart
>>>>
>>>>> phones  ? How hard would it be to enable it ?
>>>>>> Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the
>>>>>>
>>>>> requirements
>>>>
>>>>> of the customer
>>>>>> Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the
>>>>>>
>>>>> geolocation of
>>>>
>>>>> the customer
>>>>>> Adding support for customization of products/services and changes in
>>>>>>
>>>>> the
>>>>
>>>>> prices according to the customization during the purchase process
>>>>>> Adding support for a composition solution of hardware, software and
>>>>>>
>>>>> human
>>>>
>>>>> services (bundles, kits). A seller could compose a new product by
>>>>>> combining several existing products
>>>>>> Adding support for manual approval of products by site
>>>>>>
>>>>> administrators
>>
>>> before submission of the products to the e-commerce site
>>>>>> Adding support for managing versions of the software applications
>>>>>>
>>>>> that
>>
>>> are
>>>>
>>>>> sold on the e-commerce website
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sorry for so many questions and sorry if some of them are out of
>>>>>>
>>>>> context.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Best Regards,
>>>>>> Vadim
>>>>>> -------------------------------
>>>>>> Vadim Eisenberg
>>>>>> IT for Healthcare&   Life Sciences
>>>>>> IBM Research - Haifa
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>

[hans_bakker]

Hi Vadim,

I support BJ completely on his. OFbiz can be the basis of a complete
system where you have more than 95% what you need for an AAL.

To give you an example, we just implemented a scrum component in the
OFBiz system. We just needed to add a few fields, all entities were
already there including services and some screens. We just needed to
create specific security  with related screens and forms.

System to big? A simple Ofbiz system runs on a standard laptop with
500Mb memory.

Regards,
Hans

--
Ofbiz on twitter: http://twitter.com/apache_ofbiz
Myself on twitter: http://twitter.com/hansbak
Antwebsystems.com: Quality services for competitive rates.


On Sun, 2010-09-05 at 10:01 +0300, Vadim Eisenberg wrote:

> Hi BJ,
>
> It is an interesting idea ! You actually propose to use OfBiz as the core
> platform for the AAL, and not only as an e-commerce solution. We will
> consider it as an option. However, I would say that it seems that it could
> be an overkill to use an ERP solution as a general platform for
> applications and devices. This option could be too heavy, in terms of
> unneeded code/unneeded business features/high learning curve etc.. The
> idea is definitely interesting, though.
>
> Best Regards,
> Vadim
> -------------------------------
> Vadim Eisenberg
> IT for Healthcare & Life Sciences
> IBM Research - Haifa
>
>
> BJ Freeman <[hidden email]> wrote on 04/09/2010 04:37:21 PM:
>
> > From:
> >
> > BJ Freeman <[hidden email]>
> >
> > To:
> >
> > [hidden email]
> >
> > Date:
> >
> > 04/09/2010 04:38 PM
> >
> > Subject:
> >
> > Re: OfBiz e-commerce customization
> >
> > one of the concepts that is hard for most web developers is ofbiz
> > Ecommerce is like a third Tier Application.
> > Ecommerce depends on all the other Back-end applications and the
> framework.
> > So you don't design a page then add the data in the db to support it.
> > Also you will find the Ecommerce in the Second Volume starting about
> > page 393.
> > You can also look at the data model for Health care in Vol II.
> > There is a section about Health Care Delivery. mind you this is only
> > data modeling and the actual business logic and UI has to be developed.
> >
> > My back ground is hardware automation as well as embedded applications.
> > in the 70's I designed a home that was automated, it used compressed air
>
> > and cylinders for activation of doors and ramps. At that time proximity
> > sensors were all that was available.
> >
> > I say this because of your focus.
> > Being nearly 70 I have worked towards a computer companion, as such,
> > using AI. its purpose was to be my guide when I got too forgetful.
> >
> > so here is something you may not have considered. Ofbiz as the Home
> > automation with in the home.
> > Ofbiz has a sync capability used in the POS that could be used to sync
> > the ofbiz running in the home with the main website.
> > This way each person would have their own personalize themes for their
> home.
> > this would be an embedded Linux server with touch screen. it is all
> > enclosed.
> > you would use the network that automatically connects to other network
> > nodes and builds an Intranet in the home. this allows for other systems
> > to interact with ofbiz.
> >
> > The Framework of ofbiz has the ability to run schedule services. the
> > scripts for the services can be modified without re-compiling or
> > restarting ofbiz, though the actual service defs do require a restart if
>
> > changed or added. this is being worked on so the home system can be
> > updated on the fly.
> >
> > There is also a Setup component that can be added to for new components.
> >
> > needless to say I very sold on ofbiz and what it can do.
> > it does though, as David said have places that need to fleshed out.
> >
> > =========================
> >
> > BJ Freeman
> > Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation  <http://
> > www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
> > Specialtymarket.com  <http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
> > Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
> >
> > Chat  Y! messenger: bjfr33man
> >
> > Vadim Eisenberg sent the following on 9/4/2010 1:02 AM:
> >
> > > Hi David,
> > >
> > > Thank you for your answer and explanations. I failed with the
> formatting
> > > for the second time, so I will try to write in plain text from now on.
> > >
> > > You wrote: "when asking questions here please keep in mind that
> responses
> > > you get are volunteer responses and the only qualification you can be
> sure
> > > of for those responding
> > > is that they are capable of subscribing to the mailing list. If many
> > > people respond with something
> > > consistent then it is a safer bet that you can rely on the
> information,
> > > but usually not otherwise."
> > >
> > > I guess this is how Open Source works :) ? by volunteers contributing
> code
> > > to the product and answering questions in the mailing lists. I still
> would
> > > like to hear as much opinions as possible from the developers "in the
> > > trenches", so anybody is welcome to provide them. I would like to
> thank BJ
> > > again for providing his opinions.
> > >
> > > Please note that the project I participate in, is a kind of Research
> and
> > > Development project, sponsored by EU and implemented by a consortium
> of
> > > academic and industrial partners. The project is planned for four
> years
> > > (ending in January 2014). One of its goals is to create an open source
> > > implementation of an e-commerce solution - uStore, suited for the
> field of
> > > AAL - Ambient Assisted Living (that is a kind of "smart home" for
> senior
> > > citizens). The main concept of uStore is similar to the concept of
> > > AppStore of Apple ? the AAL application developers would be able to
> upload
> > > and sell their applications from the store. In addition to that, AAL
> > > related devices and human services would be sold. An additional
> important
> > > feature is to integrate "social commerce" ? user reviews, blogs,
> forums
> > > etc.
> > >
> > > Please note that developing uStore is Research and Development and
> there
> > > are not yet concrete AAL businesses that would immediately use it. The
> > > goal is to provide some reference open source implementation in four
> > > years. This implementation would be later supported and extended by an
> > > open-source community according to the business needs of AAL
> businesses,
> > > once some real AAL businesses would use it. One of the goals is to
> reuse
> > > the existing open-source OOTB solutions in any field as much as
> possible
> > > in order to save resources as much as possible.
> > >
> > > As a result of the situation, the accent here is more on e-commerce
> > > features of existing e-commerce solutions, especially related to the
> > > e-commerce frontend, than on their ERP features. We would like to use
> the
> > > simplest and the most straightforward standard business model
> (preferably
> > > OOTB) for e-commerce and invest more resources into the frontend
> features.
> > > By the frontend features I mean the website, its accessibility,
> including
> > > presentation on smart phones, search, recommendations, user reviews,
> blogs
> > > and forums etc. As I understand the strength of OfBiz is actually its
> rich
> > > ERP data model, however here we probably do not need the advanced ERP
> > > features of OfBiz.
> > >
> > > I have read your HEMP Light document ? it was interesting and provided
> > > some insights for me. Currently we are in process of finalizing the
> use
> > > cases/requirements of the uStore and evaluating existing e-commerce
> > > solutions, with OfBiz being one of the main candidates.
> > >
> > > Thanks&  Regards,
> > > Vadim
> > >
> > > -------------------------------
> > > Vadim Eisenberg
> > > IT for Healthcare&  Life Sciences
> > > IBM Research - Haifa
> > >
> > >
> > > David E Jones<[hidden email]>  wrote on 03/09/2010 10:00:38 PM:
> > >
> > >> From:
> > >>
> > >> David E Jones<[hidden email]>
> > >>
> > >> To:
> > >>
> > >> [hidden email]
> > >>
> > >> Date:
> > >>
> > >> 03/09/2010 10:01 PM
> > >>
> > >> Subject:
> > >>
> > >> Re: OfBiz e-commerce customization
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Vadim,
> > >>
> > >> About your formatting: this mailing list filters out all HTML
> > >> because HTML email messages tend to be VERY large and the Apache
> > >> Software Foundation in general has many thousands of messages going
> > >> through mailing lists every day.
> > >>
> > >> Back to your original question: when asking questions here please
> > >> keep in mind that responses you get are volunteer responses and the
> > >> only qualification you can be sure of for those responding is that
> > >> they are capable of subscribing to the mailing list. If many people
> > >> respond with something consistent then it is a safer bet that you
> > >> can rely on the information, but usually not otherwise. With a
> > >> question as long and involved as yours chances are you'll only get a
> > >> small number of responses, and chances are your experience will be
> > >> VERY different from those few who do respond.
> > >>
> > >> OFBiz is a large project. A good developer can learn to work
> > >> effectively with the framework with a couple of weeks of training
> > >> and a couple of months of hands-on development. However, even a good
> > >> developer will have a hard time picking up all of the data
> > >> structures and business logic even after many months of study, and
> > >> realistically since most people don't or can't do that, it usually
> > >> takes years of work experience and even then they'll only have
> > >> knowledge of the parts of the system that have had the opportunity
> > >> to work with.
> > >>
> > >> Understanding the business side is much easier for someone who has a
> > >> good business background, and by good business background I mean
> > >> really good experience with how businesses actually operate and what
> > >> sorts of information businesses actually keep track of when
> > >> operating. Sometimes people coming out of university business
> > >> programs will have this, but most of the time they do not. Most
> > >> people with business degrees will have learned more about laws and
> > >> how to manipulate people than about the myriad of complexities of
> > >> managing a warehouse, handling purchasing, or tracking information
> > >> about products to facility the many touch points with those products
> > >> throughout the company, and making it easy for customers to find
> > >> products they want, or how to figure out where customer interest
> > >> intersects with stuff you want to move.
> > >>
> > >> So anyway, keep in mind that your diving into a pretty comprehensive
> > >> ERP system, but one that is made up of what people have seen fit to
> > >> contribute for free. An extremely wide variety of data structures
> > >> and common business processes are represented in the system, though
> > >> many are not complete, or at least not complete in the way your
> > >> client will want to use them.
> > >>
> > >> The only way to really be sure is to document ALL business
> > >> activities (usually easiest if organized by process and not by role
> > >> or by system function), and then do an overlap/gap analysis to see
> > >> how each business activity would be done in the system, or if there
> > >> is not something to do it (or it is not adequate for what your users
> > >> want) then detail what the system needs to do to help manage that
> > >> activity. Once you've done that, then you'll know what the system
> > >> can do for you as-is, and what needs to be done to expand and change
> > >> the system to do what your client needs. Short of that, everything
> > >> is a guess and guaranteed to be wrong (the only question is by how
> > >> much and in which direction(s)...).
> > >>
> > >> To help with that I recommend this material (this is what I use
> > > withclients):
> > >>
> > >> http://www.dejc.com/home/HEMP.html
> > >>
> > >> I'd also recommend looking at some of the generic business process
> > >> stories that have come from OFBiz-based projects and been refined
> > >> somewhat over the years (though keep in mind that these stories in
> > >> some places represent activities that are not managed by OOTB OFBiz,
> > >> ie these need an overlap/gap analysis document to make them more
> > > meaningful):
> > >>
> > >> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBREQDES/Universal
> > >> +Business+Process+Library+Index
> > >>
> > >> Best of luck,
> > >> -David
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Sep 3, 2010, at 11:32 AM, Vadim Eisenberg wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Hello BJ and other OfBiz developers,
> > >>>
> > >>> I was not subscribed to the mailing list so I did not receive the
> > > answer
> > >>> of BJ to my previous message -
> > >>> <a href="http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/ofbiz-user/201009.mbox/%">http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/ofbiz-user/201009.mbox/%
> > >> [hidden email]%3E
> > >>> . Because of that I cannot post a response to it. Secondly, I used a
> > > wrong
> > >>> MIME in my previous message, so all the bullets and formatting were
> > >>> missing. I am reposting the original message below in the right
> format
> > >
> > >>> (any additional comments/opinions are welcome). In addition, my
> > > response
> > >>> to BJ follows. Sorry for the mess I created.
> > >>>
> > >>> Hi BJ,
> > >>>
> > >>> Thank you for your prompt response. I think I've got the general
> idea.
> > > I
> > >>> still would like to ask a question about learning OfBiz:
> > >>> The three volumes of the data model book comprise about 1700 pages
> > >>> together. Should I use the book as a reference or do I have to read
> > > all
> > >>> the three volumes before starting my work on OfBiz ? Which parts of
> > > the
> > >>> book are required before I begin my work ?
> > >>>
> > >>> Thanks&  Regards,
> > >>> Vadim
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> My original message:
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >
> >
> ===========================================================================================================
> > >>> Hello OfBiz developers,
> > >>>
> > >>> My name is Vadim Eisenberg and I work at IBM Research - Haifa, on
> the
> > >>> UniversAAL project - http://universaal.org/. It is a consortium
> > > European
> > >>> project. Its goal is to create a platform for applications, services
> > > and
> > >>> devices for Ambient Assisted Living, that is a kind of "Smart Home"
> > > for
> > >>> senior citizens. As part of the platform, we - several software
> > > developers
> > >>> - have to develop an e-commerce site - uStore
> > >>> http://universaal.org/index.php?
> > >> option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=9&Itemid=21
> > >>> . This site would be a one-stop-shop for software, services and
> > > devices
> > >>> for Ambient Assisted Living.
> > >>>
> > >>> We consider using OfBiz for implementation of uStore.
> > >>>
> > >>> I would like to ask you several questions about the features we want
> > > to
> > >>> implement. I would be glad to hear any information you can tell me
> > > about
> > >>> how hard could it be for us to implement these features. Please note
> > > that
> > >>> we have no prior experience with OfBiz.
> > >>>
> > >>> Any your thoughts, intuition, experience, advice about
> OfBiz/business
> > >>> programming are welcome.
> > >>>
> > >>> In particular, the following information would help us very much :
> > >>> How much work should be done by us in order to implement all the
> > > features
> > >>> that follow (Person/Months, Person/Years, for skilled OfBiz
> > >>> developers/general software engineers). Which part would be to use
> > >>> existing "extension" mechanisms of OfBiz and which part would be
> > > actually
> > >>> changing the OfBiz code ? Here your intuition/experience from
> related
> > >>> projects is welcome, we do not need exact numbers, just a ballpark.
> > >>> How much time the general software developers have to learn about
> > > OfBiz
> > >>> and how skilled in OfBiz  they should become in order to implement
> > > these
> > >>> features
> > >>>
> > >>>         E-commerce website features:
> > >>> Using e-commerce site for selling software (such as AppStore of
> > > iPhone)
> > >>> and downloadable files in general (video, presentations of courses
> > > etc.).
> > >>> Here the issue is to manage links where the bought files could be
> > >>> downloaded. The idea is to prevent a situation in which buyers would
> > > buy a
> > >>> software application, receive a link to it for downloading and share
> > > the
> > >>> link afterwards with anybody they want, so anybody would be able to
> > >>> download the application without paying for it.
> > >>> Using e-commerce site for selling services (human services and
> others)
> > >>> Extending e-commerce site with general widgets, such as calendar,
> > > clock,
> > >>> map, a widget for downloading files, etc., and integrating the
> widgets
> > >
> > >>> with the OfBiz
> > >>>
> > >>> Integration with other websites/services:
> > >>> Integrating an e-commerce website with another (non-OfBiz backed)
> site
> > > -
> > >>> adding possibility for sellers to add products to the e-commerce
> site
> > > via
> > >>> the other site, to see customer feedback provided on the e-commerce
> > > site
> > >>> via the other site
> > >>> Integrating an e-commerce website with another (possibly non-OfBiz)
> > >>> e-commerce website, such as eBay/Amazon. What are the current
> > >>> possibilities of integration with eBay ?
> > >>> Integrating an e-commerce website with post/delivery services/sites
> > >>>
> > >>> Adding advanced features:
> > >>> Adding support for signing business contracts between service
> > > consumers
> > >>> and service providers, between providers of different services etc.
> > > via
> > >>> the e-commerce site
> > >>> Adding support for applying capability/requirement model, such as
> > >>> JSR-124,  (for example  for matching between customer's requirements
> > > and
> > >>> capabilities of software, devices and services). The customer or
> > > software
> > >>> agent on behalf of the customer could provide his requirements as
> part
> > > of
> > >>> his account information, and the e-commerce solution would match
> > > between
> > >>> the products (according to their capabilities) and the requirements
> of
> > > the
> > >>> customers.
> > >>> Has OfBiz a recommendation engine (providing recommendations to a
> user
> > >
> > >>> based on his activity - searches, purchases, reviews etc.) ? If no,
> > > how
> > >>> hard would it be to add it ?
> > >>> Can the OfBiz-based e-commerce web site be presented by browsers of
> > > smart
> > >>> phones  ? How hard would it be to enable it ?
> > >>> Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the
> > > requirements
> > >>> of the customer
> > >>> Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the
> > > geolocation of
> > >>> the customer
> > >>> Adding support for customization of products/services and changes in
> > > the
> > >>> prices according to the customization during the purchase process
> > >>> Adding support for a composition solution of hardware, software and
> > > human
> > >>> services (bundles, kits). A seller could compose a new product by
> > >>> combining several existing products
> > >>> Adding support for manual approval of products by site
> administrators
> > >>> before submission of the products to the e-commerce site
> > >>> Adding support for managing versions of the software applications
> that
> > > are
> > >>> sold on the e-commerce website
> > >>>
> > >>> Sorry for so many questions and sorry if some of them are out of
> > > context.
> > >>>
> > >>> Best Regards,
> > >>> Vadim
> > >>> -------------------------------
> > >>> Vadim Eisenberg
> > >>> IT for Healthcare&  Life Sciences
> > >>> IBM Research - Haifa
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >

[Vadim Eisenberg]

Hi Bruno,

Do you mean that the framework could be (in the future) used as a general
SOA architecture for running applications, not necessary ERP related ?

Best Regards,
Vadim
-------------------------------
Vadim Eisenberg
IT for Healthcare & Life Sciences
IBM Research - Haifa
 



From:
Bruno Busco <[hidden email]>
To:
[hidden email]
Date:
05/09/2010 03:06 PM
Subject:
Re: Ofbiz and AAL was OfBiz e-commerce customization



Yes, Vadim, consider also that there is an in-progress work aimed to
better
separate the framework from the higher level applications.
This will let users like you use the power of the framework with just the
part they need of the higher applications.
-Bruno

2010/9/5 BJ Freeman <[hidden email]>

> I want to expand the conversation about using Ofbiz not just Ecommerce.
> First let start by thinking that everything is a system, living is a
> system.
> Everything we do is a bunch of black boxes with input and outputs, with
the
> processes to deal with the input and create the output.
> To address ERP, we all in our lives, implement resource planning, some
> better than others.
> An example is meal planning. Though most do this second nature from a
lot
> of experience, it can also be model in software.
> So how does resource-planning work in the home? From the Power used to
do
> things like cooking, heating, to house repair is all resource planning.
> The “E” part simply defines the max scope of the software to handle such
> activities.
>
> Most of your specs  for a “requirements Engine” is resources planning.
> The end Goal is do we have the necessary resources to do something.
> One of those resources is Cash. For seniors this is paramount if they
are
> on a fixed income. Resource planning and creating a budget is something
> Ofbiz can do with some added customization or expanding the current
system.
>
> Have you thought to use Ofbiz to develop the requirements of you AAL
> project?
> Use the Project manager will give you feel for what I mean.
>
> So lets talk about Ofbiz.
> You have a framework that already does a lot, you specify a entity and
its
> relationship then with just a few commands you have that available for
the
> Screenlet.
> Layered on top of the framework is the Application that are generic to
most
> of living but is primarily focused on business.
>
> Then you have the specific layer like Ecommerce and manufacturing.
> Now don’t discount manufacturing since that is what you do in the
kitchen
> as recipes.
>
> I am serious when I say David is Architect a comprehensive system that
can

> used in every aspect of our lives.
>
> So I would suggest:
> 1)Download Ofbiz and run it in Localhost  mode as a desktop to use the
> project manager and get feel for what it does.
> 2)Put it on a server so others in you group can do projects and tasks.
>
>
> =========================
> BJ Freeman  <http://bjfreeman.elance.com>
> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation  <
> http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
> Specialtymarket.com  <http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>
> Chat  Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>
>
>
> Vadim Eisenberg sent the following on 9/5/2010 12:01 AM:
>
>
>  Hi BJ,
>>
>> It is an interesting idea ! You actually propose to use OfBiz as the

core
>> platform for the AAL, and not only as an e-commerce solution. We will
>> consider it as an option. However, I would say that it seems that it
could

>> be an overkill to use an ERP solution as a general platform for
>> applications and devices. This option could be too heavy, in terms of
>> unneeded code/unneeded business features/high learning curve etc.. The
>> idea is definitely interesting, though.
>>
>> Best Regards,
>> Vadim
>> -------------------------------
>> Vadim Eisenberg
>> IT for Healthcare&  Life Sciences
>> IBM Research - Haifa
>>
>>
>> BJ Freeman<[hidden email]>  wrote on 04/09/2010 04:37:21 PM:
>>
>>  From:
>>>
>>> BJ Freeman<[hidden email]>
>>>
>>> To:
>>>
>>> [hidden email]
>>>
>>> Date:
>>>
>>> 04/09/2010 04:38 PM
>>>
>>> Subject:
>>>
>>> Re: OfBiz e-commerce customization
>>>
>>> one of the concepts that is hard for most web developers is ofbiz
>>> Ecommerce is like a third Tier Application.
>>> Ecommerce depends on all the other Back-end applications and the
>>>
>> framework.
>>
>>> So you don't design a page then add the data in the db to support it.
>>> Also you will find the Ecommerce in the Second Volume starting about
>>> page 393.
>>> You can also look at the data model for Health care in Vol II.
>>> There is a section about Health Care Delivery. mind you this is only
>>> data modeling and the actual business logic and UI has to be

developed.
>>>
>>> My back ground is hardware automation as well as embedded
applications.
>>> in the 70's I designed a home that was automated, it used compressed
air
>>>
>>
>>  and cylinders for activation of doors and ramps. At that time
proximity

>>> sensors were all that was available.
>>>
>>> I say this because of your focus.
>>> Being nearly 70 I have worked towards a computer companion, as such,
>>> using AI. its purpose was to be my guide when I got too forgetful.
>>>
>>> so here is something you may not have considered. Ofbiz as the Home
>>> automation with in the home.
>>> Ofbiz has a sync capability used in the POS that could be used to sync
>>> the ofbiz running in the home with the main website.
>>> This way each person would have their own personalize themes for their
>>>
>> home.
>>
>>> this would be an embedded Linux server with touch screen. it is all
>>> enclosed.
>>> you would use the network that automatically connects to other network
>>> nodes and builds an Intranet in the home. this allows for other

systems
>>> to interact with ofbiz.
>>>
>>> The Framework of ofbiz has the ability to run schedule services. the
>>> scripts for the services can be modified without re-compiling or
>>> restarting ofbiz, though the actual service defs do require a restart
if
>>>
>>
>>  changed or added. this is being worked on so the home system can be
>>> updated on the fly.
>>>
>>> There is also a Setup component that can be added to for new
components.

>>>
>>> needless to say I very sold on ofbiz and what it can do.
>>> it does though, as David said have places that need to fleshed out.
>>>
>>> =========================
>>>
>>> BJ Freeman
>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation<http://
>>> www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>>
>>> Chat  Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>>
>>> Vadim Eisenberg sent the following on 9/4/2010 1:02 AM:
>>>
>>>  Hi David,
>>>>
>>>> Thank you for your answer and explanations. I failed with the
>>>>
>>> formatting
>>
>>> for the second time, so I will try to write in plain text from now on.
>>>>
>>>> You wrote: "when asking questions here please keep in mind that
>>>>
>>> responses
>>
>>> you get are volunteer responses and the only qualification you can be
>>>>
>>> sure
>>
>>> of for those responding
>>>> is that they are capable of subscribing to the mailing list. If many
>>>> people respond with something
>>>> consistent then it is a safer bet that you can rely on the
>>>>
>>> information,
>>
>>> but usually not otherwise."
>>>>
>>>> I guess this is how Open Source works :) ? by volunteers contributing
>>>>
>>> code
>>
>>> to the product and answering questions in the mailing lists. I still
>>>>
>>> would
>>
>>> like to hear as much opinions as possible from the developers "in the
>>>> trenches", so anybody is welcome to provide them. I would like to
>>>>
>>> thank BJ
>>
>>> again for providing his opinions.
>>>>
>>>> Please note that the project I participate in, is a kind of Research
>>>>
>>> and
>>
>>> Development project, sponsored by EU and implemented by a consortium
>>>>
>>> of
>>
>>> academic and industrial partners. The project is planned for four
>>>>
>>> years
>>
>>> (ending in January 2014). One of its goals is to create an open source
>>>> implementation of an e-commerce solution - uStore, suited for the
>>>>
>>> field of
>>
>>> AAL - Ambient Assisted Living (that is a kind of "smart home" for
>>>>
>>> senior
>>
>>> citizens). The main concept of uStore is similar to the concept of
>>>> AppStore of Apple ? the AAL application developers would be able to
>>>>
>>> upload
>>
>>> and sell their applications from the store. In addition to that, AAL
>>>> related devices and human services would be sold. An additional
>>>>
>>> important
>>
>>> feature is to integrate "social commerce" ? user reviews, blogs,
>>>>
>>> forums
>>
>>> etc.
>>>>
>>>> Please note that developing uStore is Research and Development and
>>>>
>>> there
>>
>>> are not yet concrete AAL businesses that would immediately use it. The
>>>> goal is to provide some reference open source implementation in four
>>>> years. This implementation would be later supported and extended by

an

>>>> open-source community according to the business needs of AAL
>>>>
>>> businesses,
>>
>>> once some real AAL businesses would use it. One of the goals is to
>>>>
>>> reuse
>>
>>> the existing open-source OOTB solutions in any field as much as
>>>>
>>> possible
>>
>>> in order to save resources as much as possible.
>>>>
>>>> As a result of the situation, the accent here is more on e-commerce
>>>> features of existing e-commerce solutions, especially related to the
>>>> e-commerce frontend, than on their ERP features. We would like to use
>>>>
>>> the
>>
>>> simplest and the most straightforward standard business model
>>>>
>>> (preferably
>>
>>> OOTB) for e-commerce and invest more resources into the frontend
>>>>
>>> features.
>>
>>> By the frontend features I mean the website, its accessibility,
>>>>
>>> including
>>
>>> presentation on smart phones, search, recommendations, user reviews,
>>>>
>>> blogs
>>
>>> and forums etc. As I understand the strength of OfBiz is actually its
>>>>
>>> rich
>>
>>> ERP data model, however here we probably do not need the advanced ERP
>>>> features of OfBiz.
>>>>
>>>> I have read your HEMP Light document ? it was interesting and

provided

>>>> some insights for me. Currently we are in process of finalizing the
>>>>
>>> use
>>
>>> cases/requirements of the uStore and evaluating existing e-commerce
>>>> solutions, with OfBiz being one of the main candidates.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks&   Regards,
>>>> Vadim
>>>>
>>>> -------------------------------
>>>> Vadim Eisenberg
>>>> IT for Healthcare&   Life Sciences
>>>> IBM Research - Haifa
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> David E Jones<[hidden email]>   wrote on 03/09/2010 10:00:38 PM:
>>>>
>>>>  From:
>>>>>
>>>>> David E Jones<[hidden email]>
>>>>>
>>>>> To:
>>>>>
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>
>>>>> Date:
>>>>>
>>>>> 03/09/2010 10:01 PM
>>>>>
>>>>> Subject:
>>>>>
>>>>> Re: OfBiz e-commerce customization
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Vadim,
>>>>>
>>>>> About your formatting: this mailing list filters out all HTML
>>>>> because HTML email messages tend to be VERY large and the Apache
>>>>> Software Foundation in general has many thousands of messages going
>>>>> through mailing lists every day.
>>>>>
>>>>> Back to your original question: when asking questions here please
>>>>> keep in mind that responses you get are volunteer responses and the
>>>>> only qualification you can be sure of for those responding is that
>>>>> they are capable of subscribing to the mailing list. If many people
>>>>> respond with something consistent then it is a safer bet that you
>>>>> can rely on the information, but usually not otherwise. With a
>>>>> question as long and involved as yours chances are you'll only get a
>>>>> small number of responses, and chances are your experience will be
>>>>> VERY different from those few who do respond.
>>>>>
>>>>> OFBiz is a large project. A good developer can learn to work
>>>>> effectively with the framework with a couple of weeks of training
>>>>> and a couple of months of hands-on development. However, even a good
>>>>> developer will have a hard time picking up all of the data
>>>>> structures and business logic even after many months of study, and
>>>>> realistically since most people don't or can't do that, it usually
>>>>> takes years of work experience and even then they'll only have
>>>>> knowledge of the parts of the system that have had the opportunity
>>>>> to work with.
>>>>>
>>>>> Understanding the business side is much easier for someone who has a
>>>>> good business background, and by good business background I mean
>>>>> really good experience with how businesses actually operate and what
>>>>> sorts of information businesses actually keep track of when
>>>>> operating. Sometimes people coming out of university business
>>>>> programs will have this, but most of the time they do not. Most
>>>>> people with business degrees will have learned more about laws and
>>>>> how to manipulate people than about the myriad of complexities of
>>>>> managing a warehouse, handling purchasing, or tracking information
>>>>> about products to facility the many touch points with those products
>>>>> throughout the company, and making it easy for customers to find
>>>>> products they want, or how to figure out where customer interest
>>>>> intersects with stuff you want to move.
>>>>>
>>>>> So anyway, keep in mind that your diving into a pretty comprehensive
>>>>> ERP system, but one that is made up of what people have seen fit to
>>>>> contribute for free. An extremely wide variety of data structures
>>>>> and common business processes are represented in the system, though
>>>>> many are not complete, or at least not complete in the way your
>>>>> client will want to use them.
>>>>>
>>>>> The only way to really be sure is to document ALL business
>>>>> activities (usually easiest if organized by process and not by role
>>>>> or by system function), and then do an overlap/gap analysis to see
>>>>> how each business activity would be done in the system, or if there
>>>>> is not something to do it (or it is not adequate for what your users
>>>>> want) then detail what the system needs to do to help manage that
>>>>> activity. Once you've done that, then you'll know what the system
>>>>> can do for you as-is, and what needs to be done to expand and change
>>>>> the system to do what your client needs. Short of that, everything
>>>>> is a guess and guaranteed to be wrong (the only question is by how
>>>>> much and in which direction(s)...).
>>>>>
>>>>> To help with that I recommend this material (this is what I use
>>>>>
>>>> withclients):
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.dejc.com/home/HEMP.html
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd also recommend looking at some of the generic business process
>>>>> stories that have come from OFBiz-based projects and been refined
>>>>> somewhat over the years (though keep in mind that these stories in
>>>>> some places represent activities that are not managed by OOTB OFBiz,
>>>>> ie these need an overlap/gap analysis document to make them more
>>>>>
>>>> meaningful):
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBREQDES/Universal
>>>>> +Business+Process+Library+Index
>>>>>
>>>>> Best of luck,
>>>>> -David
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sep 3, 2010, at 11:32 AM, Vadim Eisenberg wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>  Hello BJ and other OfBiz developers,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I was not subscribed to the mailing list so I did not receive the
>>>>>>
>>>>> answer
>>>>
>>>>> of BJ to my previous message -
>>>>>> <a href="http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/ofbiz-user/201009.mbox/%">http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/ofbiz-user/201009.mbox/%
>>>>>>
>>>>> [hidden email]%3E
>>>>>
>>>>>> . Because of that I cannot post a response to it. Secondly, I used

a

>>>>>>
>>>>> wrong
>>>>
>>>>> MIME in my previous message, so all the bullets and formatting were
>>>>>> missing. I am reposting the original message below in the right
>>>>>>
>>>>> format
>>
>>>
>>>>  (any additional comments/opinions are welcome). In addition, my
>>>>>>
>>>>> response
>>>>
>>>>> to BJ follows. Sorry for the mess I created.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi BJ,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you for your prompt response. I think I've got the general
>>>>>>
>>>>> idea.
>>
>>> I
>>>>
>>>>> still would like to ask a question about learning OfBiz:
>>>>>> The three volumes of the data model book comprise about 1700 pages
>>>>>> together. Should I use the book as a reference or do I have to read
>>>>>>
>>>>> all
>>>>
>>>>> the three volumes before starting my work on OfBiz ? Which parts of
>>>>>>
>>>>> the
>>>>
>>>>> book are required before I begin my work ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks&   Regards,
>>>>>> Vadim
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My original message:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>

===========================================================================================================

>>
>>> Hello OfBiz developers,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My name is Vadim Eisenberg and I work at IBM Research - Haifa, on
>>>>>>
>>>>> the
>>
>>> UniversAAL project - http://universaal.org/. It is a consortium
>>>>>>
>>>>> European
>>>>
>>>>> project. Its goal is to create a platform for applications, services
>>>>>>
>>>>> and
>>>>
>>>>> devices for Ambient Assisted Living, that is a kind of "Smart Home"
>>>>>>
>>>>> for
>>>>
>>>>> senior citizens. As part of the platform, we - several software
>>>>>>
>>>>> developers
>>>>
>>>>> - have to develop an e-commerce site - uStore
>>>>>> http://universaal.org/index.php?
>>>>>>
>>>>> option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=9&Itemid=21
>>>>>
>>>>>> . This site would be a one-stop-shop for software, services and
>>>>>>
>>>>> devices
>>>>
>>>>> for Ambient Assisted Living.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We consider using OfBiz for implementation of uStore.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would like to ask you several questions about the features we

want

>>>>>>
>>>>> to
>>>>
>>>>> implement. I would be glad to hear any information you can tell me
>>>>>>
>>>>> about
>>>>
>>>>> how hard could it be for us to implement these features. Please note
>>>>>>
>>>>> that
>>>>
>>>>> we have no prior experience with OfBiz.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Any your thoughts, intuition, experience, advice about
>>>>>>
>>>>> OfBiz/business
>>
>>> programming are welcome.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In particular, the following information would help us very much :
>>>>>> How much work should be done by us in order to implement all the
>>>>>>
>>>>> features
>>>>
>>>>> that follow (Person/Months, Person/Years, for skilled OfBiz
>>>>>> developers/general software engineers). Which part would be to use
>>>>>> existing "extension" mechanisms of OfBiz and which part would be
>>>>>>
>>>>> actually
>>>>
>>>>> changing the OfBiz code ? Here your intuition/experience from
>>>>>>
>>>>> related
>>
>>> projects is welcome, we do not need exact numbers, just a ballpark.
>>>>>> How much time the general software developers have to learn about
>>>>>>
>>>>> OfBiz
>>>>
>>>>> and how skilled in OfBiz  they should become in order to implement
>>>>>>
>>>>> these
>>>>
>>>>> features
>>>>>>
>>>>>>         E-commerce website features:
>>>>>> Using e-commerce site for selling software (such as AppStore of
>>>>>>
>>>>> iPhone)
>>>>
>>>>> and downloadable files in general (video, presentations of courses
>>>>>>
>>>>> etc.).
>>>>
>>>>> Here the issue is to manage links where the bought files could be
>>>>>> downloaded. The idea is to prevent a situation in which buyers

would

>>>>>>
>>>>> buy a
>>>>
>>>>> software application, receive a link to it for downloading and share
>>>>>>
>>>>> the
>>>>
>>>>> link afterwards with anybody they want, so anybody would be able to
>>>>>> download the application without paying for it.
>>>>>> Using e-commerce site for selling services (human services and
>>>>>>
>>>>> others)
>>
>>> Extending e-commerce site with general widgets, such as calendar,
>>>>>>
>>>>> clock,
>>>>
>>>>> map, a widget for downloading files, etc., and integrating the
>>>>>>
>>>>> widgets
>>
>>>
>>>>  with the OfBiz
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Integration with other websites/services:
>>>>>> Integrating an e-commerce website with another (non-OfBiz backed)
>>>>>>
>>>>> site
>>
>>> -
>>>>
>>>>> adding possibility for sellers to add products to the e-commerce
>>>>>>
>>>>> site
>>
>>> via
>>>>
>>>>> the other site, to see customer feedback provided on the e-commerce
>>>>>>
>>>>> site
>>>>
>>>>> via the other site
>>>>>> Integrating an e-commerce website with another (possibly non-OfBiz)
>>>>>> e-commerce website, such as eBay/Amazon. What are the current
>>>>>> possibilities of integration with eBay ?
>>>>>> Integrating an e-commerce website with post/delivery services/sites
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Adding advanced features:
>>>>>> Adding support for signing business contracts between service
>>>>>>
>>>>> consumers
>>>>
>>>>> and service providers, between providers of different services etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>> via
>>>>
>>>>> the e-commerce site
>>>>>> Adding support for applying capability/requirement model, such as
>>>>>> JSR-124,  (for example  for matching between customer's

requirements

>>>>>>
>>>>> and
>>>>
>>>>> capabilities of software, devices and services). The customer or
>>>>>>
>>>>> software
>>>>
>>>>> agent on behalf of the customer could provide his requirements as
>>>>>>
>>>>> part
>>
>>> of
>>>>
>>>>> his account information, and the e-commerce solution would match
>>>>>>
>>>>> between
>>>>
>>>>> the products (according to their capabilities) and the requirements
>>>>>>
>>>>> of
>>
>>> the
>>>>
>>>>> customers.
>>>>>> Has OfBiz a recommendation engine (providing recommendations to a
>>>>>>
>>>>> user
>>
>>>
>>>>  based on his activity - searches, purchases, reviews etc.) ? If no,
>>>>>>
>>>>> how
>>>>
>>>>> hard would it be to add it ?
>>>>>> Can the OfBiz-based e-commerce web site be presented by browsers of
>>>>>>
>>>>> smart
>>>>
>>>>> phones  ? How hard would it be to enable it ?
>>>>>> Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the
>>>>>>
>>>>> requirements
>>>>
>>>>> of the customer
>>>>>> Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the
>>>>>>
>>>>> geolocation of
>>>>
>>>>> the customer
>>>>>> Adding support for customization of products/services and changes

in

>>>>>>
>>>>> the
>>>>
>>>>> prices according to the customization during the purchase process
>>>>>> Adding support for a composition solution of hardware, software and
>>>>>>
>>>>> human
>>>>
>>>>> services (bundles, kits). A seller could compose a new product by
>>>>>> combining several existing products
>>>>>> Adding support for manual approval of products by site
>>>>>>
>>>>> administrators
>>
>>> before submission of the products to the e-commerce site
>>>>>> Adding support for managing versions of the software applications
>>>>>>
>>>>> that
>>
>>> are
>>>>
>>>>> sold on the e-commerce website
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sorry for so many questions and sorry if some of them are out of
>>>>>>
>>>>> context.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Best Regards,
>>>>>> Vadim
>>>>>> -------------------------------
>>>>>> Vadim Eisenberg
>>>>>> IT for Healthcare&   Life Sciences
>>>>>> IBM Research - Haifa
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>

[Bruno Busco]

Yes, the idea is to distribute the framework with some basic applications
that allows to manage parties and contents.
On top of that, specific applications (even not ERP) can be build by the
user.
The custom application can leverage all the features the framework offers.

Right now the specialpurpose directory with all contained applications can
easily be removed from an installation so that all related db tables are not
created.
On the contrary, it is not possible to eliminate all the applications
contained in the "Applications" directory because the framework depends on
them.
We are working to eliminate those dependencies so that only used
applications could be installed or even none of them.

-Bruno

2010/9/5 Vadim Eisenberg <[hidden email]>

> Hi Bruno,
>
> Do you mean that the framework could be (in the future) used as a general
> SOA architecture for running applications, not necessary ERP related ?
>
> Best Regards,
> Vadim
> -------------------------------
> Vadim Eisenberg
> IT for Healthcare & Life Sciences
> IBM Research - Haifa
>
>
>
>
> From:
> Bruno Busco <[hidden email]>
> To:
> [hidden email]
> Date:
> 05/09/2010 03:06 PM
> Subject:
> Re: Ofbiz and AAL was OfBiz e-commerce customization
>
>
>
> Yes, Vadim, consider also that there is an in-progress work aimed to
> better
> separate the framework from the higher level applications.
> This will let users like you use the power of the framework with just the
> part they need of the higher applications.
> -Bruno
>
> 2010/9/5 BJ Freeman <[hidden email]>
>
> > I want to expand the conversation about using Ofbiz not just Ecommerce.
> > First let start by thinking that everything is a system, living is a
> > system.
> > Everything we do is a bunch of black boxes with input and outputs, with
> the
> > processes to deal with the input and create the output.
> > To address ERP, we all in our lives, implement resource planning, some
> > better than others.
> > An example is meal planning. Though most do this second nature from a
> lot
> > of experience, it can also be model in software.
> > So how does resource-planning work in the home? From the Power used to
> do
> > things like cooking, heating, to house repair is all resource planning.
> > The “E” part simply defines the max scope of the software to handle such
> > activities.
> >
> > Most of your specs  for a “requirements Engine” is resources planning.
> > The end Goal is do we have the necessary resources to do something.
> > One of those resources is Cash. For seniors this is paramount if they
> are
> > on a fixed income. Resource planning and creating a budget is something
> > Ofbiz can do with some added customization or expanding the current
> system.
> >
> > Have you thought to use Ofbiz to develop the requirements of you AAL
> > project?
> > Use the Project manager will give you feel for what I mean.
> >
> > So lets talk about Ofbiz.
> > You have a framework that already does a lot, you specify a entity and
> its
> > relationship then with just a few commands you have that available for
> the
> > Screenlet.
> > Layered on top of the framework is the Application that are generic to
> most
> > of living but is primarily focused on business.
> >
> > Then you have the specific layer like Ecommerce and manufacturing.
> > Now don’t discount manufacturing since that is what you do in the
> kitchen
> > as recipes.
> >
> > I am serious when I say David is Architect a comprehensive system that
> can
> > used in every aspect of our lives.
> >
> > So I would suggest:
> > 1)Download Ofbiz and run it in Localhost  mode as a desktop to use the
> > project manager and get feel for what it does.
> > 2)Put it on a server so others in you group can do projects and tasks.
> >
> >
> > =========================
> > BJ Freeman  <http://bjfreeman.elance.com>
> > Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation  <
> > http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
> > Specialtymarket.com  <http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
> > Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
> >
> > Chat  Y! messenger: bjfr33man
> >
> >
> >
> > Vadim Eisenberg sent the following on 9/5/2010 12:01 AM:
> >
> >
> >  Hi BJ,
> >>
> >> It is an interesting idea ! You actually propose to use OfBiz as the
> core
> >> platform for the AAL, and not only as an e-commerce solution. We will
> >> consider it as an option. However, I would say that it seems that it
> could
> >> be an overkill to use an ERP solution as a general platform for
> >> applications and devices. This option could be too heavy, in terms of
> >> unneeded code/unneeded business features/high learning curve etc.. The
> >> idea is definitely interesting, though.
> >>
> >> Best Regards,
> >> Vadim
> >> -------------------------------
> >> Vadim Eisenberg
> >> IT for Healthcare&  Life Sciences
> >> IBM Research - Haifa
> >>
> >>
> >> BJ Freeman<[hidden email]>  wrote on 04/09/2010 04:37:21 PM:
> >>
> >>  From:
> >>>
> >>> BJ Freeman<[hidden email]>
> >>>
> >>> To:
> >>>
> >>> [hidden email]
> >>>
> >>> Date:
> >>>
> >>> 04/09/2010 04:38 PM
> >>>
> >>> Subject:
> >>>
> >>> Re: OfBiz e-commerce customization
> >>>
> >>> one of the concepts that is hard for most web developers is ofbiz
> >>> Ecommerce is like a third Tier Application.
> >>> Ecommerce depends on all the other Back-end applications and the
> >>>
> >> framework.
> >>
> >>> So you don't design a page then add the data in the db to support it.
> >>> Also you will find the Ecommerce in the Second Volume starting about
> >>> page 393.
> >>> You can also look at the data model for Health care in Vol II.
> >>> There is a section about Health Care Delivery. mind you this is only
> >>> data modeling and the actual business logic and UI has to be
> developed.
> >>>
> >>> My back ground is hardware automation as well as embedded
> applications.
> >>> in the 70's I designed a home that was automated, it used compressed
> air
> >>>
> >>
> >>  and cylinders for activation of doors and ramps. At that time
> proximity
> >>> sensors were all that was available.
> >>>
> >>> I say this because of your focus.
> >>> Being nearly 70 I have worked towards a computer companion, as such,
> >>> using AI. its purpose was to be my guide when I got too forgetful.
> >>>
> >>> so here is something you may not have considered. Ofbiz as the Home
> >>> automation with in the home.
> >>> Ofbiz has a sync capability used in the POS that could be used to sync
> >>> the ofbiz running in the home with the main website.
> >>> This way each person would have their own personalize themes for their
> >>>
> >> home.
> >>
> >>> this would be an embedded Linux server with touch screen. it is all
> >>> enclosed.
> >>> you would use the network that automatically connects to other network
> >>> nodes and builds an Intranet in the home. this allows for other
> systems
> >>> to interact with ofbiz.
> >>>
> >>> The Framework of ofbiz has the ability to run schedule services. the
> >>> scripts for the services can be modified without re-compiling or
> >>> restarting ofbiz, though the actual service defs do require a restart
> if
> >>>
> >>
> >>  changed or added. this is being worked on so the home system can be
> >>> updated on the fly.
> >>>
> >>> There is also a Setup component that can be added to for new
> components.
> >>>
> >>> needless to say I very sold on ofbiz and what it can do.
> >>> it does though, as David said have places that need to fleshed out.
> >>>
> >>> =========================
> >>>
> >>> BJ Freeman
> >>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation<http://
> >>> www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
> >>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
> >>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
> >>>
> >>> Chat  Y! messenger: bjfr33man
> >>>
> >>> Vadim Eisenberg sent the following on 9/4/2010 1:02 AM:
> >>>
> >>>  Hi David,
> >>>>
> >>>> Thank you for your answer and explanations. I failed with the
> >>>>
> >>> formatting
> >>
> >>> for the second time, so I will try to write in plain text from now on.
> >>>>
> >>>> You wrote: "when asking questions here please keep in mind that
> >>>>
> >>> responses
> >>
> >>> you get are volunteer responses and the only qualification you can be
> >>>>
> >>> sure
> >>
> >>> of for those responding
> >>>> is that they are capable of subscribing to the mailing list. If many
> >>>> people respond with something
> >>>> consistent then it is a safer bet that you can rely on the
> >>>>
> >>> information,
> >>
> >>> but usually not otherwise."
> >>>>
> >>>> I guess this is how Open Source works :) ? by volunteers contributing
> >>>>
> >>> code
> >>
> >>> to the product and answering questions in the mailing lists. I still
> >>>>
> >>> would
> >>
> >>> like to hear as much opinions as possible from the developers "in the
> >>>> trenches", so anybody is welcome to provide them. I would like to
> >>>>
> >>> thank BJ
> >>
> >>> again for providing his opinions.
> >>>>
> >>>> Please note that the project I participate in, is a kind of Research
> >>>>
> >>> and
> >>
> >>> Development project, sponsored by EU and implemented by a consortium
> >>>>
> >>> of
> >>
> >>> academic and industrial partners. The project is planned for four
> >>>>
> >>> years
> >>
> >>> (ending in January 2014). One of its goals is to create an open source
> >>>> implementation of an e-commerce solution - uStore, suited for the
> >>>>
> >>> field of
> >>
> >>> AAL - Ambient Assisted Living (that is a kind of "smart home" for
> >>>>
> >>> senior
> >>
> >>> citizens). The main concept of uStore is similar to the concept of
> >>>> AppStore of Apple ? the AAL application developers would be able to
> >>>>
> >>> upload
> >>
> >>> and sell their applications from the store. In addition to that, AAL
> >>>> related devices and human services would be sold. An additional
> >>>>
> >>> important
> >>
> >>> feature is to integrate "social commerce" ? user reviews, blogs,
> >>>>
> >>> forums
> >>
> >>> etc.
> >>>>
> >>>> Please note that developing uStore is Research and Development and
> >>>>
> >>> there
> >>
> >>> are not yet concrete AAL businesses that would immediately use it. The
> >>>> goal is to provide some reference open source implementation in four
> >>>> years. This implementation would be later supported and extended by
> an
> >>>> open-source community according to the business needs of AAL
> >>>>
> >>> businesses,
> >>
> >>> once some real AAL businesses would use it. One of the goals is to
> >>>>
> >>> reuse
> >>
> >>> the existing open-source OOTB solutions in any field as much as
> >>>>
> >>> possible
> >>
> >>> in order to save resources as much as possible.
> >>>>
> >>>> As a result of the situation, the accent here is more on e-commerce
> >>>> features of existing e-commerce solutions, especially related to the
> >>>> e-commerce frontend, than on their ERP features. We would like to use
> >>>>
> >>> the
> >>
> >>> simplest and the most straightforward standard business model
> >>>>
> >>> (preferably
> >>
> >>> OOTB) for e-commerce and invest more resources into the frontend
> >>>>
> >>> features.
> >>
> >>> By the frontend features I mean the website, its accessibility,
> >>>>
> >>> including
> >>
> >>> presentation on smart phones, search, recommendations, user reviews,
> >>>>
> >>> blogs
> >>
> >>> and forums etc. As I understand the strength of OfBiz is actually its
> >>>>
> >>> rich
> >>
> >>> ERP data model, however here we probably do not need the advanced ERP
> >>>> features of OfBiz.
> >>>>
> >>>> I have read your HEMP Light document ? it was interesting and
> provided
> >>>> some insights for me. Currently we are in process of finalizing the
> >>>>
> >>> use
> >>
> >>> cases/requirements of the uStore and evaluating existing e-commerce
> >>>> solutions, with OfBiz being one of the main candidates.
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks&   Regards,
> >>>> Vadim
> >>>>
> >>>> -------------------------------
> >>>> Vadim Eisenberg
> >>>> IT for Healthcare&   Life Sciences
> >>>> IBM Research - Haifa
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> David E Jones<[hidden email]>   wrote on 03/09/2010 10:00:38 PM:
> >>>>
> >>>>  From:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> David E Jones<[hidden email]>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> To:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> [hidden email]
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Date:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 03/09/2010 10:01 PM
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Subject:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Re: OfBiz e-commerce customization
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Vadim,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> About your formatting: this mailing list filters out all HTML
> >>>>> because HTML email messages tend to be VERY large and the Apache
> >>>>> Software Foundation in general has many thousands of messages going
> >>>>> through mailing lists every day.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Back to your original question: when asking questions here please
> >>>>> keep in mind that responses you get are volunteer responses and the
> >>>>> only qualification you can be sure of for those responding is that
> >>>>> they are capable of subscribing to the mailing list. If many people
> >>>>> respond with something consistent then it is a safer bet that you
> >>>>> can rely on the information, but usually not otherwise. With a
> >>>>> question as long and involved as yours chances are you'll only get a
> >>>>> small number of responses, and chances are your experience will be
> >>>>> VERY different from those few who do respond.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> OFBiz is a large project. A good developer can learn to work
> >>>>> effectively with the framework with a couple of weeks of training
> >>>>> and a couple of months of hands-on development. However, even a good
> >>>>> developer will have a hard time picking up all of the data
> >>>>> structures and business logic even after many months of study, and
> >>>>> realistically since most people don't or can't do that, it usually
> >>>>> takes years of work experience and even then they'll only have
> >>>>> knowledge of the parts of the system that have had the opportunity
> >>>>> to work with.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Understanding the business side is much easier for someone who has a
> >>>>> good business background, and by good business background I mean
> >>>>> really good experience with how businesses actually operate and what
> >>>>> sorts of information businesses actually keep track of when
> >>>>> operating. Sometimes people coming out of university business
> >>>>> programs will have this, but most of the time they do not. Most
> >>>>> people with business degrees will have learned more about laws and
> >>>>> how to manipulate people than about the myriad of complexities of
> >>>>> managing a warehouse, handling purchasing, or tracking information
> >>>>> about products to facility the many touch points with those products
> >>>>> throughout the company, and making it easy for customers to find
> >>>>> products they want, or how to figure out where customer interest
> >>>>> intersects with stuff you want to move.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> So anyway, keep in mind that your diving into a pretty comprehensive
> >>>>> ERP system, but one that is made up of what people have seen fit to
> >>>>> contribute for free. An extremely wide variety of data structures
> >>>>> and common business processes are represented in the system, though
> >>>>> many are not complete, or at least not complete in the way your
> >>>>> client will want to use them.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The only way to really be sure is to document ALL business
> >>>>> activities (usually easiest if organized by process and not by role
> >>>>> or by system function), and then do an overlap/gap analysis to see
> >>>>> how each business activity would be done in the system, or if there
> >>>>> is not something to do it (or it is not adequate for what your users
> >>>>> want) then detail what the system needs to do to help manage that
> >>>>> activity. Once you've done that, then you'll know what the system
> >>>>> can do for you as-is, and what needs to be done to expand and change
> >>>>> the system to do what your client needs. Short of that, everything
> >>>>> is a guess and guaranteed to be wrong (the only question is by how
> >>>>> much and in which direction(s)...).
> >>>>>
> >>>>> To help with that I recommend this material (this is what I use
> >>>>>
> >>>> withclients):
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> http://www.dejc.com/home/HEMP.html
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I'd also recommend looking at some of the generic business process
> >>>>> stories that have come from OFBiz-based projects and been refined
> >>>>> somewhat over the years (though keep in mind that these stories in
> >>>>> some places represent activities that are not managed by OOTB OFBiz,
> >>>>> ie these need an overlap/gap analysis document to make them more
> >>>>>
> >>>> meaningful):
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBREQDES/Universal
> >>>>> +Business+Process+Library+Index
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Best of luck,
> >>>>> -David
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Sep 3, 2010, at 11:32 AM, Vadim Eisenberg wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  Hello BJ and other OfBiz developers,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I was not subscribed to the mailing list so I did not receive the
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> answer
> >>>>
> >>>>> of BJ to my previous message -
> >>>>>> <a href="http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/ofbiz-user/201009.mbox/%">http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/ofbiz-user/201009.mbox/%
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> [hidden email]%3E
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> . Because of that I cannot post a response to it. Secondly, I used
> a
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> wrong
> >>>>
> >>>>> MIME in my previous message, so all the bullets and formatting were
> >>>>>> missing. I am reposting the original message below in the right
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> format
> >>
> >>>
> >>>>  (any additional comments/opinions are welcome). In addition, my
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> response
> >>>>
> >>>>> to BJ follows. Sorry for the mess I created.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Hi BJ,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Thank you for your prompt response. I think I've got the general
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> idea.
> >>
> >>> I
> >>>>
> >>>>> still would like to ask a question about learning OfBiz:
> >>>>>> The three volumes of the data model book comprise about 1700 pages
> >>>>>> together. Should I use the book as a reference or do I have to read
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> all
> >>>>
> >>>>> the three volumes before starting my work on OfBiz ? Which parts of
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> the
> >>>>
> >>>>> book are required before I begin my work ?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Thanks&   Regards,
> >>>>>> Vadim
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> My original message:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
>
> ===========================================================================================================
> >>
> >>> Hello OfBiz developers,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> My name is Vadim Eisenberg and I work at IBM Research - Haifa, on
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> the
> >>
> >>> UniversAAL project - http://universaal.org/. It is a consortium
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> European
> >>>>
> >>>>> project. Its goal is to create a platform for applications, services
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> and
> >>>>
> >>>>> devices for Ambient Assisted Living, that is a kind of "Smart Home"
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> for
> >>>>
> >>>>> senior citizens. As part of the platform, we - several software
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> developers
> >>>>
> >>>>> - have to develop an e-commerce site - uStore
> >>>>>> http://universaal.org/index.php?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=9&Itemid=21
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> . This site would be a one-stop-shop for software, services and
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> devices
> >>>>
> >>>>> for Ambient Assisted Living.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> We consider using OfBiz for implementation of uStore.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I would like to ask you several questions about the features we
> want
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> to
> >>>>
> >>>>> implement. I would be glad to hear any information you can tell me
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> about
> >>>>
> >>>>> how hard could it be for us to implement these features. Please note
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> that
> >>>>
> >>>>> we have no prior experience with OfBiz.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Any your thoughts, intuition, experience, advice about
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> OfBiz/business
> >>
> >>> programming are welcome.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> In particular, the following information would help us very much :
> >>>>>> How much work should be done by us in order to implement all the
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> features
> >>>>
> >>>>> that follow (Person/Months, Person/Years, for skilled OfBiz
> >>>>>> developers/general software engineers). Which part would be to use
> >>>>>> existing "extension" mechanisms of OfBiz and which part would be
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> actually
> >>>>
> >>>>> changing the OfBiz code ? Here your intuition/experience from
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> related
> >>
> >>> projects is welcome, we do not need exact numbers, just a ballpark.
> >>>>>> How much time the general software developers have to learn about
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> OfBiz
> >>>>
> >>>>> and how skilled in OfBiz  they should become in order to implement
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> these
> >>>>
> >>>>> features
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>         E-commerce website features:
> >>>>>> Using e-commerce site for selling software (such as AppStore of
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> iPhone)
> >>>>
> >>>>> and downloadable files in general (video, presentations of courses
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> etc.).
> >>>>
> >>>>> Here the issue is to manage links where the bought files could be
> >>>>>> downloaded. The idea is to prevent a situation in which buyers
> would
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> buy a
> >>>>
> >>>>> software application, receive a link to it for downloading and share
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> the
> >>>>
> >>>>> link afterwards with anybody they want, so anybody would be able to
> >>>>>> download the application without paying for it.
> >>>>>> Using e-commerce site for selling services (human services and
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> others)
> >>
> >>> Extending e-commerce site with general widgets, such as calendar,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> clock,
> >>>>
> >>>>> map, a widget for downloading files, etc., and integrating the
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> widgets
> >>
> >>>
> >>>>  with the OfBiz
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Integration with other websites/services:
> >>>>>> Integrating an e-commerce website with another (non-OfBiz backed)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> site
> >>
> >>> -
> >>>>
> >>>>> adding possibility for sellers to add products to the e-commerce
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> site
> >>
> >>> via
> >>>>
> >>>>> the other site, to see customer feedback provided on the e-commerce
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> site
> >>>>
> >>>>> via the other site
> >>>>>> Integrating an e-commerce website with another (possibly non-OfBiz)
> >>>>>> e-commerce website, such as eBay/Amazon. What are the current
> >>>>>> possibilities of integration with eBay ?
> >>>>>> Integrating an e-commerce website with post/delivery services/sites
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Adding advanced features:
> >>>>>> Adding support for signing business contracts between service
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> consumers
> >>>>
> >>>>> and service providers, between providers of different services etc.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> via
> >>>>
> >>>>> the e-commerce site
> >>>>>> Adding support for applying capability/requirement model, such as
> >>>>>> JSR-124,  (for example  for matching between customer's
> requirements
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> and
> >>>>
> >>>>> capabilities of software, devices and services). The customer or
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> software
> >>>>
> >>>>> agent on behalf of the customer could provide his requirements as
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> part
> >>
> >>> of
> >>>>
> >>>>> his account information, and the e-commerce solution would match
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> between
> >>>>
> >>>>> the products (according to their capabilities) and the requirements
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> of
> >>
> >>> the
> >>>>
> >>>>> customers.
> >>>>>> Has OfBiz a recommendation engine (providing recommendations to a
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> user
> >>
> >>>
> >>>>  based on his activity - searches, purchases, reviews etc.) ? If no,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> how
> >>>>
> >>>>> hard would it be to add it ?
> >>>>>> Can the OfBiz-based e-commerce web site be presented by browsers of
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> smart
> >>>>
> >>>>> phones  ? How hard would it be to enable it ?
> >>>>>> Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> requirements
> >>>>
> >>>>> of the customer
> >>>>>> Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> geolocation of
> >>>>
> >>>>> the customer
> >>>>>> Adding support for customization of products/services and changes
> in
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> the
> >>>>
> >>>>> prices according to the customization during the purchase process
> >>>>>> Adding support for a composition solution of hardware, software and
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> human
> >>>>
> >>>>> services (bundles, kits). A seller could compose a new product by
> >>>>>> combining several existing products
> >>>>>> Adding support for manual approval of products by site
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> administrators
> >>
> >>> before submission of the products to the e-commerce site
> >>>>>> Adding support for managing versions of the software applications
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> that
> >>
> >>> are
> >>>>
> >>>>> sold on the e-commerce website
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Sorry for so many questions and sorry if some of them are out of
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> context.
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Best Regards,
> >>>>>> Vadim
> >>>>>> -------------------------------
> >>>>>> Vadim Eisenberg
> >>>>>> IT for Healthcare&   Life Sciences
> >>>>>> IBM Research - Haifa
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>
>
>
>
>

[BJ Freeman]

my target machine is equivalent Netbook circuit boad with a touch  screen.
These are 1.6 ghz cpu and 4 gigs of memory. with a 500 gig disk. the OEM
of this is about $350.
running ofbiz is about the size of Word as far was memory.
there are a couple of options for unwanted/unneeded features:
1) you can hide the component if you need then underlying code, by
adding/changing one parm.
2) you can comment out the component in one of two files that will
reduce the code foot print.

I have a linux server that is 4 megs of memory and runs a java mail
server and 5 instances of ofbiz, using postgres. The cpu usage is less
than 10% on average and does not require the swap file, which is a
consideration for speed. During the schedules clean up services, the CPU
usage reaches 75%.

=========================
BJ Freeman  <http://bjfreeman.elance.com>
Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation  <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
Specialtymarket.com  <http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist

Chat  Y! messenger: bjfr33man
Vadim Eisenberg sent the following on 9/5/2010 12:01 AM:

> Hi BJ,
>
> It is an interesting idea ! You actually propose to use OfBiz as the core
> platform for the AAL, and not only as an e-commerce solution. We will
> consider it as an option. However, I would say that it seems that it could
> be an overkill to use an ERP solution as a general platform for
> applications and devices. This option could be too heavy, in terms of
> unneeded code/unneeded business features/high learning curve etc.. The
> idea is definitely interesting, though.
>
> Best Regards,
> Vadim
> -------------------------------
> Vadim Eisenberg
> IT for Healthcare&  Life Sciences
> IBM Research - Haifa
>
>
> BJ Freeman<[hidden email]>  wrote on 04/09/2010 04:37:21 PM:
>
>> From:
>>
>> BJ Freeman<[hidden email]>
>>
>> To:
>>
>> [hidden email]
>>
>> Date:
>>
>> 04/09/2010 04:38 PM
>>
>> Subject:
>>
>> Re: OfBiz e-commerce customization
>>
>> one of the concepts that is hard for most web developers is ofbiz
>> Ecommerce is like a third Tier Application.
>> Ecommerce depends on all the other Back-end applications and the
> framework.
>> So you don't design a page then add the data in the db to support it.
>> Also you will find the Ecommerce in the Second Volume starting about
>> page 393.
>> You can also look at the data model for Health care in Vol II.
>> There is a section about Health Care Delivery. mind you this is only
>> data modeling and the actual business logic and UI has to be developed.
>>
>> My back ground is hardware automation as well as embedded applications.
>> in the 70's I designed a home that was automated, it used compressed air
>
>> and cylinders for activation of doors and ramps. At that time proximity
>> sensors were all that was available.
>>
>> I say this because of your focus.
>> Being nearly 70 I have worked towards a computer companion, as such,
>> using AI. its purpose was to be my guide when I got too forgetful.
>>
>> so here is something you may not have considered. Ofbiz as the Home
>> automation with in the home.
>> Ofbiz has a sync capability used in the POS that could be used to sync
>> the ofbiz running in the home with the main website.
>> This way each person would have their own personalize themes for their
> home.
>> this would be an embedded Linux server with touch screen. it is all
>> enclosed.
>> you would use the network that automatically connects to other network
>> nodes and builds an Intranet in the home. this allows for other systems
>> to interact with ofbiz.
>>
>> The Framework of ofbiz has the ability to run schedule services. the
>> scripts for the services can be modified without re-compiling or
>> restarting ofbiz, though the actual service defs do require a restart if
>
>> changed or added. this is being worked on so the home system can be
>> updated on the fly.
>>
>> There is also a Setup component that can be added to for new components.
>>
>> needless to say I very sold on ofbiz and what it can do.
>> it does though, as David said have places that need to fleshed out.
>>
>> =========================
>>
>> BJ Freeman
>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation<http://
>> www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>
>> Chat  Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>
>> Vadim Eisenberg sent the following on 9/4/2010 1:02 AM:
>>
>>> Hi David,
>>>
>>> Thank you for your answer and explanations. I failed with the
> formatting
>>> for the second time, so I will try to write in plain text from now on.
>>>
>>> You wrote: "when asking questions here please keep in mind that
> responses
>>> you get are volunteer responses and the only qualification you can be
> sure
>>> of for those responding
>>> is that they are capable of subscribing to the mailing list. If many
>>> people respond with something
>>> consistent then it is a safer bet that you can rely on the
> information,
>>> but usually not otherwise."
>>>
>>> I guess this is how Open Source works :) ? by volunteers contributing
> code
>>> to the product and answering questions in the mailing lists. I still
> would
>>> like to hear as much opinions as possible from the developers "in the
>>> trenches", so anybody is welcome to provide them. I would like to
> thank BJ
>>> again for providing his opinions.
>>>
>>> Please note that the project I participate in, is a kind of Research
> and
>>> Development project, sponsored by EU and implemented by a consortium
> of
>>> academic and industrial partners. The project is planned for four
> years
>>> (ending in January 2014). One of its goals is to create an open source
>>> implementation of an e-commerce solution - uStore, suited for the
> field of
>>> AAL - Ambient Assisted Living (that is a kind of "smart home" for
> senior
>>> citizens). The main concept of uStore is similar to the concept of
>>> AppStore of Apple ? the AAL application developers would be able to
> upload
>>> and sell their applications from the store. In addition to that, AAL
>>> related devices and human services would be sold. An additional
> important
>>> feature is to integrate "social commerce" ? user reviews, blogs,
> forums
>>> etc.
>>>
>>> Please note that developing uStore is Research and Development and
> there
>>> are not yet concrete AAL businesses that would immediately use it. The
>>> goal is to provide some reference open source implementation in four
>>> years. This implementation would be later supported and extended by an
>>> open-source community according to the business needs of AAL
> businesses,
>>> once some real AAL businesses would use it. One of the goals is to
> reuse
>>> the existing open-source OOTB solutions in any field as much as
> possible
>>> in order to save resources as much as possible.
>>>
>>> As a result of the situation, the accent here is more on e-commerce
>>> features of existing e-commerce solutions, especially related to the
>>> e-commerce frontend, than on their ERP features. We would like to use
> the
>>> simplest and the most straightforward standard business model
> (preferably
>>> OOTB) for e-commerce and invest more resources into the frontend
> features.
>>> By the frontend features I mean the website, its accessibility,
> including
>>> presentation on smart phones, search, recommendations, user reviews,
> blogs
>>> and forums etc. As I understand the strength of OfBiz is actually its
> rich
>>> ERP data model, however here we probably do not need the advanced ERP
>>> features of OfBiz.
>>>
>>> I have read your HEMP Light document ? it was interesting and provided
>>> some insights for me. Currently we are in process of finalizing the
> use
>>> cases/requirements of the uStore and evaluating existing e-commerce
>>> solutions, with OfBiz being one of the main candidates.
>>>
>>> Thanks&   Regards,
>>> Vadim
>>>
>>> -------------------------------
>>> Vadim Eisenberg
>>> IT for Healthcare&   Life Sciences
>>> IBM Research - Haifa
>>>
>>>
>>> David E Jones<[hidden email]>   wrote on 03/09/2010 10:00:38 PM:
>>>
>>>> From:
>>>>
>>>> David E Jones<[hidden email]>
>>>>
>>>> To:
>>>>
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>
>>>> Date:
>>>>
>>>> 03/09/2010 10:01 PM
>>>>
>>>> Subject:
>>>>
>>>> Re: OfBiz e-commerce customization
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Vadim,
>>>>
>>>> About your formatting: this mailing list filters out all HTML
>>>> because HTML email messages tend to be VERY large and the Apache
>>>> Software Foundation in general has many thousands of messages going
>>>> through mailing lists every day.
>>>>
>>>> Back to your original question: when asking questions here please
>>>> keep in mind that responses you get are volunteer responses and the
>>>> only qualification you can be sure of for those responding is that
>>>> they are capable of subscribing to the mailing list. If many people
>>>> respond with something consistent then it is a safer bet that you
>>>> can rely on the information, but usually not otherwise. With a
>>>> question as long and involved as yours chances are you'll only get a
>>>> small number of responses, and chances are your experience will be
>>>> VERY different from those few who do respond.
>>>>
>>>> OFBiz is a large project. A good developer can learn to work
>>>> effectively with the framework with a couple of weeks of training
>>>> and a couple of months of hands-on development. However, even a good
>>>> developer will have a hard time picking up all of the data
>>>> structures and business logic even after many months of study, and
>>>> realistically since most people don't or can't do that, it usually
>>>> takes years of work experience and even then they'll only have
>>>> knowledge of the parts of the system that have had the opportunity
>>>> to work with.
>>>>
>>>> Understanding the business side is much easier for someone who has a
>>>> good business background, and by good business background I mean
>>>> really good experience with how businesses actually operate and what
>>>> sorts of information businesses actually keep track of when
>>>> operating. Sometimes people coming out of university business
>>>> programs will have this, but most of the time they do not. Most
>>>> people with business degrees will have learned more about laws and
>>>> how to manipulate people than about the myriad of complexities of
>>>> managing a warehouse, handling purchasing, or tracking information
>>>> about products to facility the many touch points with those products
>>>> throughout the company, and making it easy for customers to find
>>>> products they want, or how to figure out where customer interest
>>>> intersects with stuff you want to move.
>>>>
>>>> So anyway, keep in mind that your diving into a pretty comprehensive
>>>> ERP system, but one that is made up of what people have seen fit to
>>>> contribute for free. An extremely wide variety of data structures
>>>> and common business processes are represented in the system, though
>>>> many are not complete, or at least not complete in the way your
>>>> client will want to use them.
>>>>
>>>> The only way to really be sure is to document ALL business
>>>> activities (usually easiest if organized by process and not by role
>>>> or by system function), and then do an overlap/gap analysis to see
>>>> how each business activity would be done in the system, or if there
>>>> is not something to do it (or it is not adequate for what your users
>>>> want) then detail what the system needs to do to help manage that
>>>> activity. Once you've done that, then you'll know what the system
>>>> can do for you as-is, and what needs to be done to expand and change
>>>> the system to do what your client needs. Short of that, everything
>>>> is a guess and guaranteed to be wrong (the only question is by how
>>>> much and in which direction(s)...).
>>>>
>>>> To help with that I recommend this material (this is what I use
>>> withclients):
>>>>
>>>> http://www.dejc.com/home/HEMP.html
>>>>
>>>> I'd also recommend looking at some of the generic business process
>>>> stories that have come from OFBiz-based projects and been refined
>>>> somewhat over the years (though keep in mind that these stories in
>>>> some places represent activities that are not managed by OOTB OFBiz,
>>>> ie these need an overlap/gap analysis document to make them more
>>> meaningful):
>>>>
>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBREQDES/Universal
>>>> +Business+Process+Library+Index
>>>>
>>>> Best of luck,
>>>> -David
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sep 3, 2010, at 11:32 AM, Vadim Eisenberg wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hello BJ and other OfBiz developers,
>>>>>
>>>>> I was not subscribed to the mailing list so I did not receive the
>>> answer
>>>>> of BJ to my previous message -
>>>>> <a href="http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/ofbiz-user/201009.mbox/%">http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/ofbiz-user/201009.mbox/%
>>>> [hidden email]%3E
>>>>> . Because of that I cannot post a response to it. Secondly, I used a
>>> wrong
>>>>> MIME in my previous message, so all the bullets and formatting were
>>>>> missing. I am reposting the original message below in the right
> format
>>>
>>>>> (any additional comments/opinions are welcome). In addition, my
>>> response
>>>>> to BJ follows. Sorry for the mess I created.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi BJ,
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you for your prompt response. I think I've got the general
> idea.
>>> I
>>>>> still would like to ask a question about learning OfBiz:
>>>>> The three volumes of the data model book comprise about 1700 pages
>>>>> together. Should I use the book as a reference or do I have to read
>>> all
>>>>> the three volumes before starting my work on OfBiz ? Which parts of
>>> the
>>>>> book are required before I begin my work ?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks&   Regards,
>>>>> Vadim
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> My original message:
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
> ===========================================================================================================
>>>>> Hello OfBiz developers,
>>>>>
>>>>> My name is Vadim Eisenberg and I work at IBM Research - Haifa, on
> the
>>>>> UniversAAL project - http://universaal.org/. It is a consortium
>>> European
>>>>> project. Its goal is to create a platform for applications, services
>>> and
>>>>> devices for Ambient Assisted Living, that is a kind of "Smart Home"
>>> for
>>>>> senior citizens. As part of the platform, we - several software
>>> developers
>>>>> - have to develop an e-commerce site - uStore
>>>>> http://universaal.org/index.php?
>>>> option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=9&Itemid=21
>>>>> . This site would be a one-stop-shop for software, services and
>>> devices
>>>>> for Ambient Assisted Living.
>>>>>
>>>>> We consider using OfBiz for implementation of uStore.
>>>>>
>>>>> I would like to ask you several questions about the features we want
>>> to
>>>>> implement. I would be glad to hear any information you can tell me
>>> about
>>>>> how hard could it be for us to implement these features. Please note
>>> that
>>>>> we have no prior experience with OfBiz.
>>>>>
>>>>> Any your thoughts, intuition, experience, advice about
> OfBiz/business
>>>>> programming are welcome.
>>>>>
>>>>> In particular, the following information would help us very much :
>>>>> How much work should be done by us in order to implement all the
>>> features
>>>>> that follow (Person/Months, Person/Years, for skilled OfBiz
>>>>> developers/general software engineers). Which part would be to use
>>>>> existing "extension" mechanisms of OfBiz and which part would be
>>> actually
>>>>> changing the OfBiz code ? Here your intuition/experience from
> related
>>>>> projects is welcome, we do not need exact numbers, just a ballpark.
>>>>> How much time the general software developers have to learn about
>>> OfBiz
>>>>> and how skilled in OfBiz  they should become in order to implement
>>> these
>>>>> features
>>>>>
>>>>>          E-commerce website features:
>>>>> Using e-commerce site for selling software (such as AppStore of
>>> iPhone)
>>>>> and downloadable files in general (video, presentations of courses
>>> etc.).
>>>>> Here the issue is to manage links where the bought files could be
>>>>> downloaded. The idea is to prevent a situation in which buyers would
>>> buy a
>>>>> software application, receive a link to it for downloading and share
>>> the
>>>>> link afterwards with anybody they want, so anybody would be able to
>>>>> download the application without paying for it.
>>>>> Using e-commerce site for selling services (human services and
> others)
>>>>> Extending e-commerce site with general widgets, such as calendar,
>>> clock,
>>>>> map, a widget for downloading files, etc., and integrating the
> widgets
>>>
>>>>> with the OfBiz
>>>>>
>>>>> Integration with other websites/services:
>>>>> Integrating an e-commerce website with another (non-OfBiz backed)
> site
>>> -
>>>>> adding possibility for sellers to add products to the e-commerce
> site
>>> via
>>>>> the other site, to see customer feedback provided on the e-commerce
>>> site
>>>>> via the other site
>>>>> Integrating an e-commerce website with another (possibly non-OfBiz)
>>>>> e-commerce website, such as eBay/Amazon. What are the current
>>>>> possibilities of integration with eBay ?
>>>>> Integrating an e-commerce website with post/delivery services/sites
>>>>>
>>>>> Adding advanced features:
>>>>> Adding support for signing business contracts between service
>>> consumers
>>>>> and service providers, between providers of different services etc.
>>> via
>>>>> the e-commerce site
>>>>> Adding support for applying capability/requirement model, such as
>>>>> JSR-124,  (for example  for matching between customer's requirements
>>> and
>>>>> capabilities of software, devices and services). The customer or
>>> software
>>>>> agent on behalf of the customer could provide his requirements as
> part
>>> of
>>>>> his account information, and the e-commerce solution would match
>>> between
>>>>> the products (according to their capabilities) and the requirements
> of
>>> the
>>>>> customers.
>>>>> Has OfBiz a recommendation engine (providing recommendations to a
> user
>>>
>>>>> based on his activity - searches, purchases, reviews etc.) ? If no,
>>> how
>>>>> hard would it be to add it ?
>>>>> Can the OfBiz-based e-commerce web site be presented by browsers of
>>> smart
>>>>> phones  ? How hard would it be to enable it ?
>>>>> Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the
>>> requirements
>>>>> of the customer
>>>>> Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the
>>> geolocation of
>>>>> the customer
>>>>> Adding support for customization of products/services and changes in
>>> the
>>>>> prices according to the customization during the purchase process
>>>>> Adding support for a composition solution of hardware, software and
>>> human
>>>>> services (bundles, kits). A seller could compose a new product by
>>>>> combining several existing products
>>>>> Adding support for manual approval of products by site
> administrators
>>>>> before submission of the products to the e-commerce site
>>>>> Adding support for managing versions of the software applications
> that
>>> are
>>>>> sold on the e-commerce website
>>>>>
>>>>> Sorry for so many questions and sorry if some of them are out of
>>> context.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best Regards,
>>>>> Vadim
>>>>> -------------------------------
>>>>> Vadim Eisenberg
>>>>> IT for Healthcare&   Life Sciences
>>>>> IBM Research - Haifa
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>

[BJ Freeman]

I have a linux server that is 4 megs of memory
should be
I have a linux server that is 4 gigs of memory

=========================
BJ Freeman  <http://bjfreeman.elance.com>
Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation  <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
Specialtymarket.com  <http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist

Chat  Y! messenger: bjfr33man


BJ Freeman sent the following on 9/5/2010 9:58 AM:

> my target machine is equivalent Netbook circuit boad with a touch  screen.
> These are 1.6 ghz cpu and 4 gigs of memory. with a 500 gig disk. the OEM
> of this is about $350.
> running ofbiz is about the size of Word as far was memory.
> there are a couple of options for unwanted/unneeded features:
> 1) you can hide the component if you need then underlying code, by
> adding/changing one parm.
> 2) you can comment out the component in one of two files that will
> reduce the code foot print.
>
> I have a linux server that is 4 megs of memory and runs a java mail
> server and 5 instances of ofbiz, using postgres. The cpu usage is less
> than 10% on average and does not require the swap file, which is a
> consideration for speed. During the schedules clean up services, the CPU
> usage reaches 75%.
>
> =========================
> BJ Freeman <http://bjfreeman.elance.com>
> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation
> <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
> Specialtymarket.com <http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>
> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man
> Vadim Eisenberg sent the following on 9/5/2010 12:01 AM:
>
>
>> Hi BJ,
>>
>> It is an interesting idea ! You actually propose to use OfBiz as the core
>> platform for the AAL, and not only as an e-commerce solution. We will
>> consider it as an option. However, I would say that it seems that it
>> could
>> be an overkill to use an ERP solution as a general platform for
>> applications and devices. This option could be too heavy, in terms of
>> unneeded code/unneeded business features/high learning curve etc.. The
>> idea is definitely interesting, though.
>>
>> Best Regards,
>> Vadim
>> -------------------------------
>> Vadim Eisenberg
>> IT for Healthcare& Life Sciences
>> IBM Research - Haifa
>>
>>
>> BJ Freeman<[hidden email]> wrote on 04/09/2010 04:37:21 PM:
>>
>>> From:
>>>
>>> BJ Freeman<[hidden email]>
>>>
>>> To:
>>>
>>> [hidden email]
>>>
>>> Date:
>>>
>>> 04/09/2010 04:38 PM
>>>
>>> Subject:
>>>
>>> Re: OfBiz e-commerce customization
>>>
>>> one of the concepts that is hard for most web developers is ofbiz
>>> Ecommerce is like a third Tier Application.
>>> Ecommerce depends on all the other Back-end applications and the
>> framework.
>>> So you don't design a page then add the data in the db to support it.
>>> Also you will find the Ecommerce in the Second Volume starting about
>>> page 393.
>>> You can also look at the data model for Health care in Vol II.
>>> There is a section about Health Care Delivery. mind you this is only
>>> data modeling and the actual business logic and UI has to be developed.
>>>
>>> My back ground is hardware automation as well as embedded applications.
>>> in the 70's I designed a home that was automated, it used compressed air
>>
>>> and cylinders for activation of doors and ramps. At that time proximity
>>> sensors were all that was available.
>>>
>>> I say this because of your focus.
>>> Being nearly 70 I have worked towards a computer companion, as such,
>>> using AI. its purpose was to be my guide when I got too forgetful.
>>>
>>> so here is something you may not have considered. Ofbiz as the Home
>>> automation with in the home.
>>> Ofbiz has a sync capability used in the POS that could be used to sync
>>> the ofbiz running in the home with the main website.
>>> This way each person would have their own personalize themes for their
>> home.
>>> this would be an embedded Linux server with touch screen. it is all
>>> enclosed.
>>> you would use the network that automatically connects to other network
>>> nodes and builds an Intranet in the home. this allows for other systems
>>> to interact with ofbiz.
>>>
>>> The Framework of ofbiz has the ability to run schedule services. the
>>> scripts for the services can be modified without re-compiling or
>>> restarting ofbiz, though the actual service defs do require a restart if
>>
>>> changed or added. this is being worked on so the home system can be
>>> updated on the fly.
>>>
>>> There is also a Setup component that can be added to for new components.
>>>
>>> needless to say I very sold on ofbiz and what it can do.
>>> it does though, as David said have places that need to fleshed out.
>>>
>>> =========================
>>>
>>> BJ Freeman
>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation<http://
>>> www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>>
>>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>>
>>> Vadim Eisenberg sent the following on 9/4/2010 1:02 AM:
>>>
>>>> Hi David,
>>>>
>>>> Thank you for your answer and explanations. I failed with the
>> formatting
>>>> for the second time, so I will try to write in plain text from now on.
>>>>
>>>> You wrote: "when asking questions here please keep in mind that
>> responses
>>>> you get are volunteer responses and the only qualification you can be
>> sure
>>>> of for those responding
>>>> is that they are capable of subscribing to the mailing list. If many
>>>> people respond with something
>>>> consistent then it is a safer bet that you can rely on the
>> information,
>>>> but usually not otherwise."
>>>>
>>>> I guess this is how Open Source works :) ? by volunteers contributing
>> code
>>>> to the product and answering questions in the mailing lists. I still
>> would
>>>> like to hear as much opinions as possible from the developers "in the
>>>> trenches", so anybody is welcome to provide them. I would like to
>> thank BJ
>>>> again for providing his opinions.
>>>>
>>>> Please note that the project I participate in, is a kind of Research
>> and
>>>> Development project, sponsored by EU and implemented by a consortium
>> of
>>>> academic and industrial partners. The project is planned for four
>> years
>>>> (ending in January 2014). One of its goals is to create an open source
>>>> implementation of an e-commerce solution - uStore, suited for the
>> field of
>>>> AAL - Ambient Assisted Living (that is a kind of "smart home" for
>> senior
>>>> citizens). The main concept of uStore is similar to the concept of
>>>> AppStore of Apple ? the AAL application developers would be able to
>> upload
>>>> and sell their applications from the store. In addition to that, AAL
>>>> related devices and human services would be sold. An additional
>> important
>>>> feature is to integrate "social commerce" ? user reviews, blogs,
>> forums
>>>> etc.
>>>>
>>>> Please note that developing uStore is Research and Development and
>> there
>>>> are not yet concrete AAL businesses that would immediately use it. The
>>>> goal is to provide some reference open source implementation in four
>>>> years. This implementation would be later supported and extended by an
>>>> open-source community according to the business needs of AAL
>> businesses,
>>>> once some real AAL businesses would use it. One of the goals is to
>> reuse
>>>> the existing open-source OOTB solutions in any field as much as
>> possible
>>>> in order to save resources as much as possible.
>>>>
>>>> As a result of the situation, the accent here is more on e-commerce
>>>> features of existing e-commerce solutions, especially related to the
>>>> e-commerce frontend, than on their ERP features. We would like to use
>> the
>>>> simplest and the most straightforward standard business model
>> (preferably
>>>> OOTB) for e-commerce and invest more resources into the frontend
>> features.
>>>> By the frontend features I mean the website, its accessibility,
>> including
>>>> presentation on smart phones, search, recommendations, user reviews,
>> blogs
>>>> and forums etc. As I understand the strength of OfBiz is actually its
>> rich
>>>> ERP data model, however here we probably do not need the advanced ERP
>>>> features of OfBiz.
>>>>
>>>> I have read your HEMP Light document ? it was interesting and provided
>>>> some insights for me. Currently we are in process of finalizing the
>> use
>>>> cases/requirements of the uStore and evaluating existing e-commerce
>>>> solutions, with OfBiz being one of the main candidates.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks& Regards,
>>>> Vadim
>>>>
>>>> -------------------------------
>>>> Vadim Eisenberg
>>>> IT for Healthcare& Life Sciences
>>>> IBM Research - Haifa
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> David E Jones<[hidden email]> wrote on 03/09/2010 10:00:38 PM:
>>>>
>>>>> From:
>>>>>
>>>>> David E Jones<[hidden email]>
>>>>>
>>>>> To:
>>>>>
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>
>>>>> Date:
>>>>>
>>>>> 03/09/2010 10:01 PM
>>>>>
>>>>> Subject:
>>>>>
>>>>> Re: OfBiz e-commerce customization
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Vadim,
>>>>>
>>>>> About your formatting: this mailing list filters out all HTML
>>>>> because HTML email messages tend to be VERY large and the Apache
>>>>> Software Foundation in general has many thousands of messages going
>>>>> through mailing lists every day.
>>>>>
>>>>> Back to your original question: when asking questions here please
>>>>> keep in mind that responses you get are volunteer responses and the
>>>>> only qualification you can be sure of for those responding is that
>>>>> they are capable of subscribing to the mailing list. If many people
>>>>> respond with something consistent then it is a safer bet that you
>>>>> can rely on the information, but usually not otherwise. With a
>>>>> question as long and involved as yours chances are you'll only get a
>>>>> small number of responses, and chances are your experience will be
>>>>> VERY different from those few who do respond.
>>>>>
>>>>> OFBiz is a large project. A good developer can learn to work
>>>>> effectively with the framework with a couple of weeks of training
>>>>> and a couple of months of hands-on development. However, even a good
>>>>> developer will have a hard time picking up all of the data
>>>>> structures and business logic even after many months of study, and
>>>>> realistically since most people don't or can't do that, it usually
>>>>> takes years of work experience and even then they'll only have
>>>>> knowledge of the parts of the system that have had the opportunity
>>>>> to work with.
>>>>>
>>>>> Understanding the business side is much easier for someone who has a
>>>>> good business background, and by good business background I mean
>>>>> really good experience with how businesses actually operate and what
>>>>> sorts of information businesses actually keep track of when
>>>>> operating. Sometimes people coming out of university business
>>>>> programs will have this, but most of the time they do not. Most
>>>>> people with business degrees will have learned more about laws and
>>>>> how to manipulate people than about the myriad of complexities of
>>>>> managing a warehouse, handling purchasing, or tracking information
>>>>> about products to facility the many touch points with those products
>>>>> throughout the company, and making it easy for customers to find
>>>>> products they want, or how to figure out where customer interest
>>>>> intersects with stuff you want to move.
>>>>>
>>>>> So anyway, keep in mind that your diving into a pretty comprehensive
>>>>> ERP system, but one that is made up of what people have seen fit to
>>>>> contribute for free. An extremely wide variety of data structures
>>>>> and common business processes are represented in the system, though
>>>>> many are not complete, or at least not complete in the way your
>>>>> client will want to use them.
>>>>>
>>>>> The only way to really be sure is to document ALL business
>>>>> activities (usually easiest if organized by process and not by role
>>>>> or by system function), and then do an overlap/gap analysis to see
>>>>> how each business activity would be done in the system, or if there
>>>>> is not something to do it (or it is not adequate for what your users
>>>>> want) then detail what the system needs to do to help manage that
>>>>> activity. Once you've done that, then you'll know what the system
>>>>> can do for you as-is, and what needs to be done to expand and change
>>>>> the system to do what your client needs. Short of that, everything
>>>>> is a guess and guaranteed to be wrong (the only question is by how
>>>>> much and in which direction(s)...).
>>>>>
>>>>> To help with that I recommend this material (this is what I use
>>>> withclients):
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.dejc.com/home/HEMP.html
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd also recommend looking at some of the generic business process
>>>>> stories that have come from OFBiz-based projects and been refined
>>>>> somewhat over the years (though keep in mind that these stories in
>>>>> some places represent activities that are not managed by OOTB OFBiz,
>>>>> ie these need an overlap/gap analysis document to make them more
>>>> meaningful):
>>>>>
>>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBREQDES/Universal
>>>>> +Business+Process+Library+Index
>>>>>
>>>>> Best of luck,
>>>>> -David
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sep 3, 2010, at 11:32 AM, Vadim Eisenberg wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello BJ and other OfBiz developers,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I was not subscribed to the mailing list so I did not receive the
>>>> answer
>>>>>> of BJ to my previous message -
>>>>>> <a href="http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/ofbiz-user/201009.mbox/%">http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/ofbiz-user/201009.mbox/%
>>>>> [hidden email]%3E
>>>>>> . Because of that I cannot post a response to it. Secondly, I used a
>>>> wrong
>>>>>> MIME in my previous message, so all the bullets and formatting were
>>>>>> missing. I am reposting the original message below in the right
>> format
>>>>
>>>>>> (any additional comments/opinions are welcome). In addition, my
>>>> response
>>>>>> to BJ follows. Sorry for the mess I created.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi BJ,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you for your prompt response. I think I've got the general
>> idea.
>>>> I
>>>>>> still would like to ask a question about learning OfBiz:
>>>>>> The three volumes of the data model book comprise about 1700 pages
>>>>>> together. Should I use the book as a reference or do I have to read
>>>> all
>>>>>> the three volumes before starting my work on OfBiz ? Which parts of
>>>> the
>>>>>> book are required before I begin my work ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks& Regards,
>>>>>> Vadim
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My original message:
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>> ===========================================================================================================
>>
>>>>>> Hello OfBiz developers,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My name is Vadim Eisenberg and I work at IBM Research - Haifa, on
>> the
>>>>>> UniversAAL project - http://universaal.org/. It is a consortium
>>>> European
>>>>>> project. Its goal is to create a platform for applications, services
>>>> and
>>>>>> devices for Ambient Assisted Living, that is a kind of "Smart Home"
>>>> for
>>>>>> senior citizens. As part of the platform, we - several software
>>>> developers
>>>>>> - have to develop an e-commerce site - uStore
>>>>>> http://universaal.org/index.php?
>>>>> option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=9&Itemid=21
>>>>>> . This site would be a one-stop-shop for software, services and
>>>> devices
>>>>>> for Ambient Assisted Living.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We consider using OfBiz for implementation of uStore.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would like to ask you several questions about the features we want
>>>> to
>>>>>> implement. I would be glad to hear any information you can tell me
>>>> about
>>>>>> how hard could it be for us to implement these features. Please note
>>>> that
>>>>>> we have no prior experience with OfBiz.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Any your thoughts, intuition, experience, advice about
>> OfBiz/business
>>>>>> programming are welcome.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In particular, the following information would help us very much :
>>>>>> How much work should be done by us in order to implement all the
>>>> features
>>>>>> that follow (Person/Months, Person/Years, for skilled OfBiz
>>>>>> developers/general software engineers). Which part would be to use
>>>>>> existing "extension" mechanisms of OfBiz and which part would be
>>>> actually
>>>>>> changing the OfBiz code ? Here your intuition/experience from
>> related
>>>>>> projects is welcome, we do not need exact numbers, just a ballpark.
>>>>>> How much time the general software developers have to learn about
>>>> OfBiz
>>>>>> and how skilled in OfBiz they should become in order to implement
>>>> these
>>>>>> features
>>>>>>
>>>>>> E-commerce website features:
>>>>>> Using e-commerce site for selling software (such as AppStore of
>>>> iPhone)
>>>>>> and downloadable files in general (video, presentations of courses
>>>> etc.).
>>>>>> Here the issue is to manage links where the bought files could be
>>>>>> downloaded. The idea is to prevent a situation in which buyers would
>>>> buy a
>>>>>> software application, receive a link to it for downloading and share
>>>> the
>>>>>> link afterwards with anybody they want, so anybody would be able to
>>>>>> download the application without paying for it.
>>>>>> Using e-commerce site for selling services (human services and
>> others)
>>>>>> Extending e-commerce site with general widgets, such as calendar,
>>>> clock,
>>>>>> map, a widget for downloading files, etc., and integrating the
>> widgets
>>>>
>>>>>> with the OfBiz
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Integration with other websites/services:
>>>>>> Integrating an e-commerce website with another (non-OfBiz backed)
>> site
>>>> -
>>>>>> adding possibility for sellers to add products to the e-commerce
>> site
>>>> via
>>>>>> the other site, to see customer feedback provided on the e-commerce
>>>> site
>>>>>> via the other site
>>>>>> Integrating an e-commerce website with another (possibly non-OfBiz)
>>>>>> e-commerce website, such as eBay/Amazon. What are the current
>>>>>> possibilities of integration with eBay ?
>>>>>> Integrating an e-commerce website with post/delivery services/sites
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Adding advanced features:
>>>>>> Adding support for signing business contracts between service
>>>> consumers
>>>>>> and service providers, between providers of different services etc.
>>>> via
>>>>>> the e-commerce site
>>>>>> Adding support for applying capability/requirement model, such as
>>>>>> JSR-124, (for example for matching between customer's requirements
>>>> and
>>>>>> capabilities of software, devices and services). The customer or
>>>> software
>>>>>> agent on behalf of the customer could provide his requirements as
>> part
>>>> of
>>>>>> his account information, and the e-commerce solution would match
>>>> between
>>>>>> the products (according to their capabilities) and the requirements
>> of
>>>> the
>>>>>> customers.
>>>>>> Has OfBiz a recommendation engine (providing recommendations to a
>> user
>>>>
>>>>>> based on his activity - searches, purchases, reviews etc.) ? If no,
>>>> how
>>>>>> hard would it be to add it ?
>>>>>> Can the OfBiz-based e-commerce web site be presented by browsers of
>>>> smart
>>>>>> phones ? How hard would it be to enable it ?
>>>>>> Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the
>>>> requirements
>>>>>> of the customer
>>>>>> Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the
>>>> geolocation of
>>>>>> the customer
>>>>>> Adding support for customization of products/services and changes in
>>>> the
>>>>>> prices according to the customization during the purchase process
>>>>>> Adding support for a composition solution of hardware, software and
>>>> human
>>>>>> services (bundles, kits). A seller could compose a new product by
>>>>>> combining several existing products
>>>>>> Adding support for manual approval of products by site
>> administrators
>>>>>> before submission of the products to the e-commerce site
>>>>>> Adding support for managing versions of the software applications
>> that
>>>> are
>>>>>> sold on the e-commerce website
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sorry for so many questions and sorry if some of them are out of
>>>> context.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best Regards,
>>>>>> Vadim
>>>>>> -------------------------------
>>>>>> Vadim Eisenberg
>>>>>> IT for Healthcare& Life Sciences
>>>>>> IBM Research - Haifa
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>
>

[Shi Jinghai]

As it's mentioned in other threads, you can trim OFBiz to make a product
to compete with Apple education (iTune U more exactly). You don't have
to spend 4 years, 2 years is enough.



在 2010-09-05日的 10:29 +0300，Vadim Eisenberg写道：

> Hi Shi Jinghai,
>
> We considered other open-source e-commerce solutions such as osCommerce
> http://www.oscommerce.com/, but it is licensed under GPL. We cannot use
> GPL/LGPL code in our project. So the advantage of OfBiz is its Apache
> license. We are unaware of other open source e-commerce solutions that are
> not licensed under GPL/LGPL.
>
> Best Regards,
> Vadim
> -------------------------------
> Vadim Eisenberg
> IT for Healthcare & Life Sciences
> IBM Research - Haifa
>  
>
> Shi Jinghai <[hidden email]> wrote on 05/09/2010 01:26:44 AM:
>
> > From:
> >
> > Shi Jinghai <[hidden email]>
> >
> > To:
> >
> > [hidden email]
> >
> > Date:
> >
> > 05/09/2010 01:27 AM
> >
> > Subject:
> >
> > Re: OfBiz e-commerce customization
> >
> > It seems your strategy is very clear: you need a set of UI for free and
> > will sell your middle ware in the future. If so, I guess OFBiz will not
> > be your choice.
> >
> >
> > 在 2010-09-04六的 11:02 +0300，Vadim Eisenberg写道：
> > > Hi David,
> > >
> > > Thank you for your answer and explanations. I failed with the
> formatting
> > > for the second time, so I will try to write in plain text from now on.
> > >
> > > You wrote: "when asking questions here please keep in mind that
> responses
> > > you get are volunteer responses and the only qualification you can be
> sure
> > > of for those responding
> > > is that they are capable of subscribing to the mailing list. If many
> > > people respond with something
> > > consistent then it is a safer bet that you can rely on the
> information,
> > > but usually not otherwise."
> > >
> > > I guess this is how Open Source works :) ? by volunteers contributing
> code
> > > to the product and answering questions in the mailing lists. I still
> would
> > > like to hear as much opinions as possible from the developers "in the
> > > trenches", so anybody is welcome to provide them. I would like to
> thank BJ
> > > again for providing his opinions.
> > >
> > > Please note that the project I participate in, is a kind of Research
> and
> > > Development project, sponsored by EU and implemented by a consortium
> of
> > > academic and industrial partners. The project is planned for four
> years
> > > (ending in January 2014). One of its goals is to create an open source
>
> > > implementation of an e-commerce solution - uStore, suited for the
> field of
> > > AAL - Ambient Assisted Living (that is a kind of "smart home" for
> senior
> > > citizens). The main concept of uStore is similar to the concept of
> > > AppStore of Apple ? the AAL application developers would be able to
> upload
> > > and sell their applications from the store. In addition to that, AAL
> > > related devices and human services would be sold. An additional
> important
> > > feature is to integrate "social commerce" ? user reviews, blogs,
> forums
> > > etc.
> > >
> > > Please note that developing uStore is Research and Development and
> there
> > > are not yet concrete AAL businesses that would immediately use it. The
>
> > > goal is to provide some reference open source implementation in four
> > > years. This implementation would be later supported and extended by an
>
> > > open-source community according to the business needs of AAL
> businesses,
> > > once some real AAL businesses would use it. One of the goals is to
> reuse
> > > the existing open-source OOTB solutions in any field as much as
> possible
> > > in order to save resources as much as possible.
> > >
> > > As a result of the situation, the accent here is more on e-commerce
> > > features of existing e-commerce solutions, especially related to the
> > > e-commerce frontend, than on their ERP features. We would like to use
> the
> > > simplest and the most straightforward standard business model
> (preferably
> > > OOTB) for e-commerce and invest more resources into the frontend
> features.
> > > By the frontend features I mean the website, its accessibility,
> including
> > > presentation on smart phones, search, recommendations, user reviews,
> blogs
> > > and forums etc. As I understand the strength of OfBiz is actually its
> rich
> > > ERP data model, however here we probably do not need the advanced ERP
> > > features of OfBiz.
> > >
> > > I have read your HEMP Light document ? it was interesting and provided
>
> > > some insights for me. Currently we are in process of finalizing the
> use
> > > cases/requirements of the uStore and evaluating existing e-commerce
> > > solutions, with OfBiz being one of the main candidates.
> > >
> > > Thanks & Regards,
> > > Vadim
> > >
> > > -------------------------------
> > > Vadim Eisenberg
> > > IT for Healthcare & Life Sciences
> > > IBM Research - Haifa
> > >
> > >
> > > David E Jones <[hidden email]> wrote on 03/09/2010 10:00:38 PM:
> > >
> > > > From:
> > > >
> > > > David E Jones <[hidden email]>
> > > >
> > > > To:
> > > >
> > > > [hidden email]
> > > >
> > > > Date:
> > > >
> > > > 03/09/2010 10:01 PM
> > > >
> > > > Subject:
> > > >
> > > > Re: OfBiz e-commerce customization
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Vadim,
> > > >
> > > > About your formatting: this mailing list filters out all HTML
> > > > because HTML email messages tend to be VERY large and the Apache
> > > > Software Foundation in general has many thousands of messages going
> > > > through mailing lists every day.
> > > >
> > > > Back to your original question: when asking questions here please
> > > > keep in mind that responses you get are volunteer responses and the
> > > > only qualification you can be sure of for those responding is that
> > > > they are capable of subscribing to the mailing list. If many people
> > > > respond with something consistent then it is a safer bet that you
> > > > can rely on the information, but usually not otherwise. With a
> > > > question as long and involved as yours chances are you'll only get a
> > > > small number of responses, and chances are your experience will be
> > > > VERY different from those few who do respond.
> > > >
> > > > OFBiz is a large project. A good developer can learn to work
> > > > effectively with the framework with a couple of weeks of training
> > > > and a couple of months of hands-on development. However, even a good
> > > > developer will have a hard time picking up all of the data
> > > > structures and business logic even after many months of study, and
> > > > realistically since most people don't or can't do that, it usually
> > > > takes years of work experience and even then they'll only have
> > > > knowledge of the parts of the system that have had the opportunity
> > > > to work with.
> > > >
> > > > Understanding the business side is much easier for someone who has a
> > > > good business background, and by good business background I mean
> > > > really good experience with how businesses actually operate and what
> > > > sorts of information businesses actually keep track of when
> > > > operating. Sometimes people coming out of university business
> > > > programs will have this, but most of the time they do not. Most
> > > > people with business degrees will have learned more about laws and
> > > > how to manipulate people than about the myriad of complexities of
> > > > managing a warehouse, handling purchasing, or tracking information
> > > > about products to facility the many touch points with those products
> > > > throughout the company, and making it easy for customers to find
> > > > products they want, or how to figure out where customer interest
> > > > intersects with stuff you want to move.
> > > >
> > > > So anyway, keep in mind that your diving into a pretty comprehensive
> > > > ERP system, but one that is made up of what people have seen fit to
> > > > contribute for free. An extremely wide variety of data structures
> > > > and common business processes are represented in the system, though
> > > > many are not complete, or at least not complete in the way your
> > > > client will want to use them.
> > > >
> > > > The only way to really be sure is to document ALL business
> > > > activities (usually easiest if organized by process and not by role
> > > > or by system function), and then do an overlap/gap analysis to see
> > > > how each business activity would be done in the system, or if there
> > > > is not something to do it (or it is not adequate for what your users
> > > > want) then detail what the system needs to do to help manage that
> > > > activity. Once you've done that, then you'll know what the system
> > > > can do for you as-is, and what needs to be done to expand and change
> > > > the system to do what your client needs. Short of that, everything
> > > > is a guess and guaranteed to be wrong (the only question is by how
> > > > much and in which direction(s)...).
> > > >
> > > > To help with that I recommend this material (this is what I use
> > > withclients):
> > > >
> > > > http://www.dejc.com/home/HEMP.html
> > > >
> > > > I'd also recommend looking at some of the generic business process
> > > > stories that have come from OFBiz-based projects and been refined
> > > > somewhat over the years (though keep in mind that these stories in
> > > > some places represent activities that are not managed by OOTB OFBiz,
> > > > ie these need an overlap/gap analysis document to make them more
> > > meaningful):
> > > >
> > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBREQDES/Universal
> > > > +Business+Process+Library+Index
> > > >
> > > > Best of luck,
> > > > -David
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Sep 3, 2010, at 11:32 AM, Vadim Eisenberg wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hello BJ and other OfBiz developers,
> > > > >
> > > > > I was not subscribed to the mailing list so I did not receive the
> > > answer
> > > > > of BJ to my previous message -
> > > > > <a href="http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/ofbiz-user/201009.mbox/%">http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/ofbiz-user/201009.mbox/%
> > > > [hidden email]%3E
> > > > > . Because of that I cannot post a response to it. Secondly, I used
> a
> > > wrong
> > > > > MIME in my previous message, so all the bullets and formatting
> were
> > > > > missing. I am reposting the original message below in the right
> format
> > >
> > > > > (any additional comments/opinions are welcome). In addition, my
> > > response
> > > > > to BJ follows. Sorry for the mess I created.
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi BJ,
> > > > >
> > > > > Thank you for your prompt response. I think I've got the general
> idea.
> > > I
> > > > > still would like to ask a question about learning OfBiz:
> > > > > The three volumes of the data model book comprise about 1700 pages
>
> > > > > together. Should I use the book as a reference or do I have to
> read
> > > all
> > > > > the three volumes before starting my work on OfBiz ? Which parts
> of
> > > the
> > > > > book are required before I begin my work ?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks & Regards,
> > > > > Vadim
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > My original message:
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> ===========================================================================================================
> > > > > Hello OfBiz developers,
> > > > >
> > > > > My name is Vadim Eisenberg and I work at IBM Research - Haifa, on
> the
> > > > > UniversAAL project - http://universaal.org/. It is a consortium
> > > European
> > > > > project. Its goal is to create a platform for applications,
> services
> > > and
> > > > > devices for Ambient Assisted Living, that is a kind of "Smart
> Home"
> > > for
> > > > > senior citizens. As part of the platform, we - several software
> > > developers
> > > > > - have to develop an e-commerce site - uStore
> > > > > http://universaal.org/index.php?
> > > > option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=9&Itemid=21
> > > > > . This site would be a one-stop-shop for software, services and
> > > devices
> > > > > for Ambient Assisted Living.
> > > > >
> > > > > We consider using OfBiz for implementation of uStore.
> > > > >
> > > > > I would like to ask you several questions about the features we
> want
> > > to
> > > > > implement. I would be glad to hear any information you can tell me
>
> > > about
> > > > > how hard could it be for us to implement these features. Please
> note
> > > that
> > > > > we have no prior experience with OfBiz.
> > > > >
> > > > > Any your thoughts, intuition, experience, advice about
> OfBiz/business
> > > > > programming are welcome.
> > > > >
> > > > > In particular, the following information would help us very much :
> > > > > How much work should be done by us in order to implement all the
> > > features
> > > > > that follow (Person/Months, Person/Years, for skilled OfBiz
> > > > > developers/general software engineers). Which part would be to use
>
> > > > > existing "extension" mechanisms of OfBiz and which part would be
> > > actually
> > > > > changing the OfBiz code ? Here your intuition/experience from
> related
> > > > > projects is welcome, we do not need exact numbers, just a
> ballpark.
> > > > > How much time the general software developers have to learn about
> > > OfBiz
> > > > > and how skilled in OfBiz  they should become in order to implement
>
> > > these
> > > > > features
> > > > >
> > > > >        E-commerce website features:
> > > > > Using e-commerce site for selling software (such as AppStore of
> > > iPhone)
> > > > > and downloadable files in general (video, presentations of courses
>
> > > etc.).
> > > > > Here the issue is to manage links where the bought files could be
> > > > > downloaded. The idea is to prevent a situation in which buyers
> would
> > > buy a
> > > > > software application, receive a link to it for downloading and
> share
> > > the
> > > > > link afterwards with anybody they want, so anybody would be able
> to
> > > > > download the application without paying for it.
> > > > > Using e-commerce site for selling services (human services and
> others)
> > > > > Extending e-commerce site with general widgets, such as calendar,
> > > clock,
> > > > > map, a widget for downloading files, etc., and integrating the
> widgets
> > >
> > > > > with the OfBiz
> > > > >
> > > > > Integration with other websites/services:
> > > > > Integrating an e-commerce website with another (non-OfBiz backed)
> site
> > > -
> > > > > adding possibility for sellers to add products to the e-commerce
> site
> > > via
> > > > > the other site, to see customer feedback provided on the
> e-commerce
> > > site
> > > > > via the other site
> > > > > Integrating an e-commerce website with another (possibly
> non-OfBiz)
> > > > > e-commerce website, such as eBay/Amazon. What are the current
> > > > > possibilities of integration with eBay ?
> > > > > Integrating an e-commerce website with post/delivery
> services/sites
> > > > >
> > > > > Adding advanced features:
> > > > > Adding support for signing business contracts between service
> > > consumers
> > > > > and service providers, between providers of different services
> etc.
> > > via
> > > > > the e-commerce site
> > > > > Adding support for applying capability/requirement model, such as
> > > > > JSR-124,  (for example  for matching between customer's
> requirements
> > > and
> > > > > capabilities of software, devices and services). The customer or
> > > software
> > > > > agent on behalf of the customer could provide his requirements as
> part
> > > of
> > > > > his account information, and the e-commerce solution would match
> > > between
> > > > > the products (according to their capabilities) and the
> requirements of
> > > the
> > > > > customers.
> > > > > Has OfBiz a recommendation engine (providing recommendations to a
> user
> > >
> > > > > based on his activity - searches, purchases, reviews etc.) ? If
> no,
> > > how
> > > > > hard would it be to add it ?
> > > > > Can the OfBiz-based e-commerce web site be presented by browsers
> of
> > > smart
> > > > > phones  ? How hard would it be to enable it ?
> > > > > Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the
> > > requirements
> > > > > of the customer
> > > > > Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the
> > > geolocation of
> > > > > the customer
> > > > > Adding support for customization of products/services and changes
> in
> > > the
> > > > > prices according to the customization during the purchase process
> > > > > Adding support for a composition solution of hardware, software
> and
> > > human
> > > > > services (bundles, kits). A seller could compose a new product by
> > > > > combining several existing products
> > > > > Adding support for manual approval of products by site
> administrators
> > > > > before submission of the products to the e-commerce site
> > > > > Adding support for managing versions of the software applications
> that
> > > are
> > > > > sold on the e-commerce website
> > > > >
> > > > > Sorry for so many questions and sorry if some of them are out of
> > > context.
> > > > >
> > > > > Best Regards,
> > > > > Vadim
> > > > > -------------------------------
> > > > > Vadim Eisenberg
> > > > > IT for Healthcare & Life Sciences
> > > > > IBM Research - Haifa
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> >