Hello BJ and other OfBiz developers,
I was not subscribed to the mailing list so I did not receive the answer of BJ to my previous message - http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/ofbiz-user/201009.mbox/%3C4C7FFC99.9020109@...%3E . Because of that I cannot post a response to it. Secondly, I used a wrong MIME in my previous message, so all the bullets and formatting were missing. I am reposting the original message below in the right format (any additional comments/opinions are welcome). In addition, my response to BJ follows. Sorry for the mess I created. Hi BJ, Thank you for your prompt response. I think I've got the general idea. I still would like to ask a question about learning OfBiz: The three volumes of the data model book comprise about 1700 pages together. Should I use the book as a reference or do I have to read all the three volumes before starting my work on OfBiz ? Which parts of the book are required before I begin my work ? Thanks & Regards, Vadim My original message: =========================================================================================================== Hello OfBiz developers, My name is Vadim Eisenberg and I work at IBM Research - Haifa, on the UniversAAL project - http://universaal.org/. It is a consortium European project. Its goal is to create a platform for applications, services and devices for Ambient Assisted Living, that is a kind of "Smart Home" for senior citizens. As part of the platform, we - several software developers - have to develop an e-commerce site - uStore http://universaal.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=9&Itemid=21 . This site would be a one-stop-shop for software, services and devices for Ambient Assisted Living. We consider using OfBiz for implementation of uStore. I would like to ask you several questions about the features we want to implement. I would be glad to hear any information you can tell me about how hard could it be for us to implement these features. Please note that we have no prior experience with OfBiz. Any your thoughts, intuition, experience, advice about OfBiz/business programming are welcome. In particular, the following information would help us very much : How much work should be done by us in order to implement all the features that follow (Person/Months, Person/Years, for skilled OfBiz developers/general software engineers). Which part would be to use existing "extension" mechanisms of OfBiz and which part would be actually changing the OfBiz code ? Here your intuition/experience from related projects is welcome, we do not need exact numbers, just a ballpark. How much time the general software developers have to learn about OfBiz and how skilled in OfBiz they should become in order to implement these features E-commerce website features: Using e-commerce site for selling software (such as AppStore of iPhone) and downloadable files in general (video, presentations of courses etc.). Here the issue is to manage links where the bought files could be downloaded. The idea is to prevent a situation in which buyers would buy a software application, receive a link to it for downloading and share the link afterwards with anybody they want, so anybody would be able to download the application without paying for it. Using e-commerce site for selling services (human services and others) Extending e-commerce site with general widgets, such as calendar, clock, map, a widget for downloading files, etc., and integrating the widgets with the OfBiz Integration with other websites/services: Integrating an e-commerce website with another (non-OfBiz backed) site - adding possibility for sellers to add products to the e-commerce site via the other site, to see customer feedback provided on the e-commerce site via the other site Integrating an e-commerce website with another (possibly non-OfBiz) e-commerce website, such as eBay/Amazon. What are the current possibilities of integration with eBay ? Integrating an e-commerce website with post/delivery services/sites Adding advanced features: Adding support for signing business contracts between service consumers and service providers, between providers of different services etc. via the e-commerce site Adding support for applying capability/requirement model, such as JSR-124, (for example for matching between customer's requirements and capabilities of software, devices and services). The customer or software agent on behalf of the customer could provide his requirements as part of his account information, and the e-commerce solution would match between the products (according to their capabilities) and the requirements of the customers. Has OfBiz a recommendation engine (providing recommendations to a user based on his activity - searches, purchases, reviews etc.) ? If no, how hard would it be to add it ? Can the OfBiz-based e-commerce web site be presented by browsers of smart phones ? How hard would it be to enable it ? Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the requirements of the customer Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the geolocation of the customer Adding support for customization of products/services and changes in the prices according to the customization during the purchase process Adding support for a composition solution of hardware, software and human services (bundles, kits). A seller could compose a new product by combining several existing products Adding support for manual approval of products by site administrators before submission of the products to the e-commerce site Adding support for managing versions of the software applications that are sold on the e-commerce website Sorry for so many questions and sorry if some of them are out of context. Best Regards, Vadim ------------------------------- Vadim Eisenberg IT for Healthcare & Life Sciences IBM Research - Haifa |
the first volume is the one you will use the most for understanding the
data model used by ofbiz. It explains things that are not explained any other place. I suggest at least a cursory review so as you need info you know where to go. the second volume deals with specific industries and has lots of modeling Ideas you may be able to use. the third volume focuses more on business logic. though this was not used in the original design it has some good things to be considered. the most accurate modeling can be found in the webtools of the version of ofbiz you are using. https://demo-trunk.ofbiz.apache.org/webtools/control/entitymaint or https://demo-trunk.ofbiz.apache.org/webtools/control/entityref and for documentation http://ofbiz.apache.org/ and click on the documentation link. ========================= BJ Freeman <http://bjfreeman.elance.com> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52> Specialtymarket.com <http://www.specialtymarket.com/> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man Vadim Eisenberg sent the following on 9/3/2010 10:32 AM: > Hello BJ and other OfBiz developers, > > I was not subscribed to the mailing list so I did not receive the answer > of BJ to my previous message - > http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/ofbiz-user/201009.mbox/%3C4C7FFC99.9020109@...%3E > . Because of that I cannot post a response to it. Secondly, I used a wrong > MIME in my previous message, so all the bullets and formatting were > missing. I am reposting the original message below in the right format > (any additional comments/opinions are welcome). In addition, my response > to BJ follows. Sorry for the mess I created. > > Hi BJ, > > Thank you for your prompt response. I think I've got the general idea. I > still would like to ask a question about learning OfBiz: > The three volumes of the data model book comprise about 1700 pages > together. Should I use the book as a reference or do I have to read all > the three volumes before starting my work on OfBiz ? Which parts of the > book are required before I begin my work ? > > Thanks& Regards, > Vadim > > > > > My original message: > =========================================================================================================== > Hello OfBiz developers, > > My name is Vadim Eisenberg and I work at IBM Research - Haifa, on the > UniversAAL project - http://universaal.org/. It is a consortium European > project. Its goal is to create a platform for applications, services and > devices for Ambient Assisted Living, that is a kind of "Smart Home" for > senior citizens. As part of the platform, we - several software developers > - have to develop an e-commerce site - uStore > http://universaal.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=9&Itemid=21 > . This site would be a one-stop-shop for software, services and devices > for Ambient Assisted Living. > > We consider using OfBiz for implementation of uStore. > > I would like to ask you several questions about the features we want to > implement. I would be glad to hear any information you can tell me about > how hard could it be for us to implement these features. Please note that > we have no prior experience with OfBiz. > > Any your thoughts, intuition, experience, advice about OfBiz/business > programming are welcome. > > In particular, the following information would help us very much : > How much work should be done by us in order to implement all the features > that follow (Person/Months, Person/Years, for skilled OfBiz > developers/general software engineers). Which part would be to use > existing "extension" mechanisms of OfBiz and which part would be actually > changing the OfBiz code ? Here your intuition/experience from related > projects is welcome, we do not need exact numbers, just a ballpark. > How much time the general software developers have to learn about OfBiz > and how skilled in OfBiz they should become in order to implement these > features > > E-commerce website features: > Using e-commerce site for selling software (such as AppStore of iPhone) > and downloadable files in general (video, presentations of courses etc.). > Here the issue is to manage links where the bought files could be > downloaded. The idea is to prevent a situation in which buyers would buy a > software application, receive a link to it for downloading and share the > link afterwards with anybody they want, so anybody would be able to > download the application without paying for it. > Using e-commerce site for selling services (human services and others) > Extending e-commerce site with general widgets, such as calendar, clock, > map, a widget for downloading files, etc., and integrating the widgets > with the OfBiz > > Integration with other websites/services: > Integrating an e-commerce website with another (non-OfBiz backed) site - > adding possibility for sellers to add products to the e-commerce site via > the other site, to see customer feedback provided on the e-commerce site > via the other site > Integrating an e-commerce website with another (possibly non-OfBiz) > e-commerce website, such as eBay/Amazon. What are the current > possibilities of integration with eBay ? > Integrating an e-commerce website with post/delivery services/sites > > Adding advanced features: > Adding support for signing business contracts between service consumers > and service providers, between providers of different services etc. via > the e-commerce site > Adding support for applying capability/requirement model, such as > JSR-124, (for example for matching between customer's requirements and > capabilities of software, devices and services). The customer or software > agent on behalf of the customer could provide his requirements as part of > his account information, and the e-commerce solution would match between > the products (according to their capabilities) and the requirements of the > customers. > Has OfBiz a recommendation engine (providing recommendations to a user > based on his activity - searches, purchases, reviews etc.) ? If no, how > hard would it be to add it ? > Can the OfBiz-based e-commerce web site be presented by browsers of smart > phones ? How hard would it be to enable it ? > Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the requirements > of the customer > Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the geolocation of > the customer > Adding support for customization of products/services and changes in the > prices according to the customization during the purchase process > Adding support for a composition solution of hardware, software and human > services (bundles, kits). A seller could compose a new product by > combining several existing products > Adding support for manual approval of products by site administrators > before submission of the products to the e-commerce site > Adding support for managing versions of the software applications that are > sold on the e-commerce website > > Sorry for so many questions and sorry if some of them are out of context. > > Best Regards, > Vadim > ------------------------------- > Vadim Eisenberg > IT for Healthcare& Life Sciences > IBM Research - Haifa > > > |
Thank you, BJ !
Best Regards, Vadim ------------------------------- Vadim Eisenberg IT for Healthcare & Life Sciences IBM Research - Haifa BJ Freeman <[hidden email]> wrote on 03/09/2010 08:53:17 PM: > From: > > BJ Freeman <[hidden email]> > > To: > > [hidden email] > > Date: > > 03/09/2010 08:54 PM > > Subject: > > Re: OfBiz e-commerce customization > > the first volume is the one you will use the most for understanding the > data model used by ofbiz. It explains things that are not explained any > other place. I suggest at least a cursory review so as you need info you > know where to go. > the second volume deals with specific industries and has lots of > modeling Ideas you may be able to use. > the third volume focuses more on business logic. though this was not > used in the original design it has some good things to be considered. > > the most accurate modeling can be found in the webtools of the version > of ofbiz you are using. > https://demo-trunk.ofbiz.apache.org/webtools/control/entitymaint > or > https://demo-trunk.ofbiz.apache.org/webtools/control/entityref > > and for documentation > http://ofbiz.apache.org/ > and click on the documentation link. > > ========================= > BJ Freeman <http://bjfreeman.elance.com> > Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation <http:// > www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52> > Specialtymarket.com <http://www.specialtymarket.com/> > Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist > > Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man > > > Vadim Eisenberg sent the following on 9/3/2010 10:32 AM: > > Hello BJ and other OfBiz developers, > > > > I was not subscribed to the mailing list so I did not receive the > > of BJ to my previous message - > > <a href="http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/ofbiz-user/201009.mbox/%">http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/ofbiz-user/201009.mbox/% > [hidden email]%3E > > . Because of that I cannot post a response to it. Secondly, I used a wrong > > MIME in my previous message, so all the bullets and formatting were > > missing. I am reposting the original message below in the right format > > (any additional comments/opinions are welcome). In addition, my response > > to BJ follows. Sorry for the mess I created. > > > > Hi BJ, > > > > Thank you for your prompt response. I think I've got the general idea. I > > still would like to ask a question about learning OfBiz: > > The three volumes of the data model book comprise about 1700 pages > > together. Should I use the book as a reference or do I have to read all > > the three volumes before starting my work on OfBiz ? Which parts of the > > book are required before I begin my work ? > > > > Thanks& Regards, > > Vadim > > > > > > > > > > My original message: > > > > > Hello OfBiz developers, > > > > My name is Vadim Eisenberg and I work at IBM Research - Haifa, on the > > UniversAAL project - http://universaal.org/. It is a consortium European > > project. Its goal is to create a platform for applications, services and > > devices for Ambient Assisted Living, that is a kind of "Smart Home" for > > senior citizens. As part of the platform, we - several software developers > > - have to develop an e-commerce site - uStore > > http://universaal.org/index.php? > option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=9&Itemid=21 > > . This site would be a one-stop-shop for software, services and devices > > for Ambient Assisted Living. > > > > We consider using OfBiz for implementation of uStore. > > > > I would like to ask you several questions about the features we want to > > implement. I would be glad to hear any information you can tell me about > > how hard could it be for us to implement these features. Please note that > > we have no prior experience with OfBiz. > > > > Any your thoughts, intuition, experience, advice about OfBiz/business > > programming are welcome. > > > > In particular, the following information would help us very much : > > How much work should be done by us in order to implement all the features > > that follow (Person/Months, Person/Years, for skilled OfBiz > > developers/general software engineers). Which part would be to use > > existing "extension" mechanisms of OfBiz and which part would be actually > > changing the OfBiz code ? Here your intuition/experience from related > > projects is welcome, we do not need exact numbers, just a ballpark. > > How much time the general software developers have to learn about OfBiz > > and how skilled in OfBiz they should become in order to implement these > > features > > > > E-commerce website features: > > Using e-commerce site for selling software (such as AppStore of iPhone) > > and downloadable files in general (video, presentations of courses etc.). > > Here the issue is to manage links where the bought files could be > > downloaded. The idea is to prevent a situation in which buyers would buy a > > software application, receive a link to it for downloading and share the > > link afterwards with anybody they want, so anybody would be able to > > download the application without paying for it. > > Using e-commerce site for selling services (human services and others) > > Extending e-commerce site with general widgets, such as calendar, clock, > > map, a widget for downloading files, etc., and integrating the widgets > > with the OfBiz > > > > Integration with other websites/services: > > Integrating an e-commerce website with another (non-OfBiz backed) site - > > adding possibility for sellers to add products to the e-commerce site via > > the other site, to see customer feedback provided on the e-commerce site > > via the other site > > Integrating an e-commerce website with another (possibly non-OfBiz) > > e-commerce website, such as eBay/Amazon. What are the current > > possibilities of integration with eBay ? > > Integrating an e-commerce website with post/delivery services/sites > > > > Adding advanced features: > > Adding support for signing business contracts between service consumers > > and service providers, between providers of different services etc. via > > the e-commerce site > > Adding support for applying capability/requirement model, such as > > JSR-124, (for example for matching between customer's requirements and > > capabilities of software, devices and services). The customer or software > > agent on behalf of the customer could provide his requirements as part of > > his account information, and the e-commerce solution would match between > > the products (according to their capabilities) and the requirements of the > > customers. > > Has OfBiz a recommendation engine (providing recommendations to a user > > based on his activity - searches, purchases, reviews etc.) ? If no, how > > hard would it be to add it ? > > Can the OfBiz-based e-commerce web site be presented by browsers of smart > > phones ? How hard would it be to enable it ? > > Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the requirements > > of the customer > > Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the geolocation of > > the customer > > Adding support for customization of products/services and changes in the > > prices according to the customization during the purchase process > > Adding support for a composition solution of hardware, software and human > > services (bundles, kits). A seller could compose a new product by > > combining several existing products > > Adding support for manual approval of products by site administrators > > before submission of the products to the e-commerce site > > Adding support for managing versions of the software applications that are > > sold on the e-commerce website > > > > Sorry for so many questions and sorry if some of them are out of context. > > > > Best Regards, > > Vadim > > ------------------------------- > > Vadim Eisenberg > > IT for Healthcare& Life Sciences > > IBM Research - Haifa > > > > > > > |
In reply to this post by Vadim Eisenberg
Vadim, About your formatting: this mailing list filters out all HTML because HTML email messages tend to be VERY large and the Apache Software Foundation in general has many thousands of messages going through mailing lists every day. Back to your original question: when asking questions here please keep in mind that responses you get are volunteer responses and the only qualification you can be sure of for those responding is that they are capable of subscribing to the mailing list. If many people respond with something consistent then it is a safer bet that you can rely on the information, but usually not otherwise. With a question as long and involved as yours chances are you'll only get a small number of responses, and chances are your experience will be VERY different from those few who do respond. OFBiz is a large project. A good developer can learn to work effectively with the framework with a couple of weeks of training and a couple of months of hands-on development. However, even a good developer will have a hard time picking up all of the data structures and business logic even after many months of study, and realistically since most people don't or can't do that, it usually takes years of work experience and even then they'll only have knowledge of the parts of the system that have had the opportunity to work with. Understanding the business side is much easier for someone who has a good business background, and by good business background I mean really good experience with how businesses actually operate and what sorts of information businesses actually keep track of when operating. Sometimes people coming out of university business programs will have this, but most of the time they do not. Most people with business degrees will have learned more about laws and how to manipulate people than about the myriad of complexities of managing a warehouse, handling purchasing, or tracking information about products to facility the many touch points with those products throughout the company, and making it easy for customers to find products they want, or how to figure out where customer interest intersects with stuff you want to move. So anyway, keep in mind that your diving into a pretty comprehensive ERP system, but one that is made up of what people have seen fit to contribute for free. An extremely wide variety of data structures and common business processes are represented in the system, though many are not complete, or at least not complete in the way your client will want to use them. The only way to really be sure is to document ALL business activities (usually easiest if organized by process and not by role or by system function), and then do an overlap/gap analysis to see how each business activity would be done in the system, or if there is not something to do it (or it is not adequate for what your users want) then detail what the system needs to do to help manage that activity. Once you've done that, then you'll know what the system can do for you as-is, and what needs to be done to expand and change the system to do what your client needs. Short of that, everything is a guess and guaranteed to be wrong (the only question is by how much and in which direction(s)...). To help with that I recommend this material (this is what I use with clients): http://www.dejc.com/home/HEMP.html I'd also recommend looking at some of the generic business process stories that have come from OFBiz-based projects and been refined somewhat over the years (though keep in mind that these stories in some places represent activities that are not managed by OOTB OFBiz, ie these need an overlap/gap analysis document to make them more meaningful): https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBREQDES/Universal+Business+Process+Library+Index Best of luck, -David On Sep 3, 2010, at 11:32 AM, Vadim Eisenberg wrote: > Hello BJ and other OfBiz developers, > > I was not subscribed to the mailing list so I did not receive the answer > of BJ to my previous message - > http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/ofbiz-user/201009.mbox/%3C4C7FFC99.9020109@...%3E > . Because of that I cannot post a response to it. Secondly, I used a wrong > MIME in my previous message, so all the bullets and formatting were > missing. I am reposting the original message below in the right format > (any additional comments/opinions are welcome). In addition, my response > to BJ follows. Sorry for the mess I created. > > Hi BJ, > > Thank you for your prompt response. I think I've got the general idea. I > still would like to ask a question about learning OfBiz: > The three volumes of the data model book comprise about 1700 pages > together. Should I use the book as a reference or do I have to read all > the three volumes before starting my work on OfBiz ? Which parts of the > book are required before I begin my work ? > > Thanks & Regards, > Vadim > > > > > My original message: > =========================================================================================================== > Hello OfBiz developers, > > My name is Vadim Eisenberg and I work at IBM Research - Haifa, on the > UniversAAL project - http://universaal.org/. It is a consortium European > project. Its goal is to create a platform for applications, services and > devices for Ambient Assisted Living, that is a kind of "Smart Home" for > senior citizens. As part of the platform, we - several software developers > - have to develop an e-commerce site - uStore > http://universaal.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=9&Itemid=21 > . This site would be a one-stop-shop for software, services and devices > for Ambient Assisted Living. > > We consider using OfBiz for implementation of uStore. > > I would like to ask you several questions about the features we want to > implement. I would be glad to hear any information you can tell me about > how hard could it be for us to implement these features. Please note that > we have no prior experience with OfBiz. > > Any your thoughts, intuition, experience, advice about OfBiz/business > programming are welcome. > > In particular, the following information would help us very much : > How much work should be done by us in order to implement all the features > that follow (Person/Months, Person/Years, for skilled OfBiz > developers/general software engineers). Which part would be to use > existing "extension" mechanisms of OfBiz and which part would be actually > changing the OfBiz code ? Here your intuition/experience from related > projects is welcome, we do not need exact numbers, just a ballpark. > How much time the general software developers have to learn about OfBiz > and how skilled in OfBiz they should become in order to implement these > features > > E-commerce website features: > Using e-commerce site for selling software (such as AppStore of iPhone) > and downloadable files in general (video, presentations of courses etc.). > Here the issue is to manage links where the bought files could be > downloaded. The idea is to prevent a situation in which buyers would buy a > software application, receive a link to it for downloading and share the > link afterwards with anybody they want, so anybody would be able to > download the application without paying for it. > Using e-commerce site for selling services (human services and others) > Extending e-commerce site with general widgets, such as calendar, clock, > map, a widget for downloading files, etc., and integrating the widgets > with the OfBiz > > Integration with other websites/services: > Integrating an e-commerce website with another (non-OfBiz backed) site - > adding possibility for sellers to add products to the e-commerce site via > the other site, to see customer feedback provided on the e-commerce site > via the other site > Integrating an e-commerce website with another (possibly non-OfBiz) > e-commerce website, such as eBay/Amazon. What are the current > possibilities of integration with eBay ? > Integrating an e-commerce website with post/delivery services/sites > > Adding advanced features: > Adding support for signing business contracts between service consumers > and service providers, between providers of different services etc. via > the e-commerce site > Adding support for applying capability/requirement model, such as > JSR-124, (for example for matching between customer's requirements and > capabilities of software, devices and services). The customer or software > agent on behalf of the customer could provide his requirements as part of > his account information, and the e-commerce solution would match between > the products (according to their capabilities) and the requirements of the > customers. > Has OfBiz a recommendation engine (providing recommendations to a user > based on his activity - searches, purchases, reviews etc.) ? If no, how > hard would it be to add it ? > Can the OfBiz-based e-commerce web site be presented by browsers of smart > phones ? How hard would it be to enable it ? > Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the requirements > of the customer > Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the geolocation of > the customer > Adding support for customization of products/services and changes in the > prices according to the customization during the purchase process > Adding support for a composition solution of hardware, software and human > services (bundles, kits). A seller could compose a new product by > combining several existing products > Adding support for manual approval of products by site administrators > before submission of the products to the e-commerce site > Adding support for managing versions of the software applications that are > sold on the e-commerce website > > Sorry for so many questions and sorry if some of them are out of context. > > Best Regards, > Vadim > ------------------------------- > Vadim Eisenberg > IT for Healthcare & Life Sciences > IBM Research - Haifa > > |
David and I come from different Back grounds and see thing drastically different. David is College educated with 10+ experience in software. My computer/software began in 1976. I am self taught starting in 1976 with building my first Computer from chips and wire wrap. on paper wrote the monitor then loaded it by switches. I have been hired by companies to do hardware design to manufacturing though 1980's. In 1980 I moved from machine code to high level code, Basic, C, Pascal, and Cobol. I learned from experience what worked and does not at the compiler level to provide lean and clean code. I have been hired by companies to pull the hardware/software projects that were behind schedule and cost over runs to bring them back inline. I was also hired by companies to take their paper way of doing business and computerize it. so like Davids Stories I used the paper process to define the functions at high level then worked down to the low level code. What I have in experience lets me fill in the gaps that end user may not have thought of. I use a method of research of code to understand it, Admittedly, I don't have the advantage of being the Architect of ofbiz that David has. I break down software to black boxes with input and output and the process it does. I then create a state diagram on how all the black boxes interact from a hardware/software perspective. Along with the design of the software is testing units to validate each black box. each Black box has a set of stubs that allow it to receive and send data that is evaluated by the test unit. So in this respect I see myself more as a integrator than A software Design engineer. When I came to ofbiz, 2003, I already had systems that were working, so I have a lot of experience in converting from other system to ofbiz. Also a learning curve of how to keep the continued changes in the code from effecting my customizations. There are others that also have a lot of experience before ofbiz that post here. Just the fact we volunteer should not be construed as not knowing anything. It is also surprising that those that seem the deepest into ofbiz rarely contribute on the user Mailing list. A few do, but not as many as is on the list of developers and committers. ========================= BJ Freeman <http://bjfreeman.elance.com> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52> Specialtymarket.com <http://www.specialtymarket.com/> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man David E Jones sent the following on 9/3/2010 12:00 PM: > > Vadim, > > About your formatting: this mailing list filters out all HTML because HTML email messages tend to be VERY large and the Apache Software Foundation in general has many thousands of messages going through mailing lists every day. > > Back to your original question: when asking questions here please keep in mind that responses you get are volunteer responses and the only qualification you can be sure of for those responding is that they are capable of subscribing to the mailing list. If many people respond with something consistent then it is a safer bet that you can rely on the information, but usually not otherwise. With a question as long and involved as yours chances are you'll only get a small number of responses, and chances are your experience will be VERY different from those few who do respond. > > OFBiz is a large project. A good developer can learn to work effectively with the framework with a couple of weeks of training and a couple of months of hands-on development. However, even a good developer will have a hard time picking up all of the data structures and business logic even after many months of study, and realistically since most people don't or can't do that, it usually takes years of work experience and even then they'll only have knowledge of the parts of the system that have had the opportunity to work with. > > Understanding the business side is much easier for someone who has a good business background, and by good business background I mean really good experience with how businesses actually operate and what sorts of information businesses actually keep track of when operating. Sometimes people coming out of university business programs will have this, but most of the time they do not. Most people with business degrees will have learned more about laws and how to manipulate people than about the myriad of complexities of managing a warehouse, handling purchasing, or tracking information about products to facility the many touch points with those products throughout the company, and making it easy for customers to find products they want, or how to figure out where customer interest intersects with stuff you want to move. > > So anyway, keep in mind that your diving into a pretty comprehensive ERP system, but one that is made up of what people have seen fit to contribute for free. An extremely wide variety of data structures and common business processes are represented in the system, though many are not complete, or at least not complete in the way your client will want to use them. > > The only way to really be sure is to document ALL business activities (usually easiest if organized by process and not by role or by system function), and then do an overlap/gap analysis to see how each business activity would be done in the system, or if there is not something to do it (or it is not adequate for what your users want) then detail what the system needs to do to help manage that activity. Once you've done that, then you'll know what the system can do for you as-is, and what needs to be done to expand and change the system to do what your client needs. Short of that, everything is a guess and guaranteed to be wrong (the only question is by how much and in which direction(s)...). > > To help with that I recommend this material (this is what I use with clients): > > http://www.dejc.com/home/HEMP.html > > I'd also recommend looking at some of the generic business process stories that have come from OFBiz-based projects and been refined somewhat over the years (though keep in mind that these stories in some places represent activities that are not managed by OOTB OFBiz, ie these need an overlap/gap analysis document to make them more meaningful): > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBREQDES/Universal+Business+Process+Library+Index > > Best of luck, > -David > > > On Sep 3, 2010, at 11:32 AM, Vadim Eisenberg wrote: > >> Hello BJ and other OfBiz developers, >> >> I was not subscribed to the mailing list so I did not receive the answer >> of BJ to my previous message - >> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/ofbiz-user/201009.mbox/%3C4C7FFC99.9020109@...%3E >> . Because of that I cannot post a response to it. Secondly, I used a wrong >> MIME in my previous message, so all the bullets and formatting were >> missing. I am reposting the original message below in the right format >> (any additional comments/opinions are welcome). In addition, my response >> to BJ follows. Sorry for the mess I created. >> >> Hi BJ, >> >> Thank you for your prompt response. I think I've got the general idea. I >> still would like to ask a question about learning OfBiz: >> The three volumes of the data model book comprise about 1700 pages >> together. Should I use the book as a reference or do I have to read all >> the three volumes before starting my work on OfBiz ? Which parts of the >> book are required before I begin my work ? >> >> Thanks& Regards, >> Vadim >> >> >> >> >> My original message: >> =========================================================================================================== >> Hello OfBiz developers, >> >> My name is Vadim Eisenberg and I work at IBM Research - Haifa, on the >> UniversAAL project - http://universaal.org/. It is a consortium European >> project. Its goal is to create a platform for applications, services and >> devices for Ambient Assisted Living, that is a kind of "Smart Home" for >> senior citizens. As part of the platform, we - several software developers >> - have to develop an e-commerce site - uStore >> http://universaal.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=9&Itemid=21 >> . This site would be a one-stop-shop for software, services and devices >> for Ambient Assisted Living. >> >> We consider using OfBiz for implementation of uStore. >> >> I would like to ask you several questions about the features we want to >> implement. I would be glad to hear any information you can tell me about >> how hard could it be for us to implement these features. Please note that >> we have no prior experience with OfBiz. >> >> Any your thoughts, intuition, experience, advice about OfBiz/business >> programming are welcome. >> >> In particular, the following information would help us very much : >> How much work should be done by us in order to implement all the features >> that follow (Person/Months, Person/Years, for skilled OfBiz >> developers/general software engineers). Which part would be to use >> existing "extension" mechanisms of OfBiz and which part would be actually >> changing the OfBiz code ? Here your intuition/experience from related >> projects is welcome, we do not need exact numbers, just a ballpark. >> How much time the general software developers have to learn about OfBiz >> and how skilled in OfBiz they should become in order to implement these >> features >> >> E-commerce website features: >> Using e-commerce site for selling software (such as AppStore of iPhone) >> and downloadable files in general (video, presentations of courses etc.). >> Here the issue is to manage links where the bought files could be >> downloaded. The idea is to prevent a situation in which buyers would buy a >> software application, receive a link to it for downloading and share the >> link afterwards with anybody they want, so anybody would be able to >> download the application without paying for it. >> Using e-commerce site for selling services (human services and others) >> Extending e-commerce site with general widgets, such as calendar, clock, >> map, a widget for downloading files, etc., and integrating the widgets >> with the OfBiz >> >> Integration with other websites/services: >> Integrating an e-commerce website with another (non-OfBiz backed) site - >> adding possibility for sellers to add products to the e-commerce site via >> the other site, to see customer feedback provided on the e-commerce site >> via the other site >> Integrating an e-commerce website with another (possibly non-OfBiz) >> e-commerce website, such as eBay/Amazon. What are the current >> possibilities of integration with eBay ? >> Integrating an e-commerce website with post/delivery services/sites >> >> Adding advanced features: >> Adding support for signing business contracts between service consumers >> and service providers, between providers of different services etc. via >> the e-commerce site >> Adding support for applying capability/requirement model, such as >> JSR-124, (for example for matching between customer's requirements and >> capabilities of software, devices and services). The customer or software >> agent on behalf of the customer could provide his requirements as part of >> his account information, and the e-commerce solution would match between >> the products (according to their capabilities) and the requirements of the >> customers. >> Has OfBiz a recommendation engine (providing recommendations to a user >> based on his activity - searches, purchases, reviews etc.) ? If no, how >> hard would it be to add it ? >> Can the OfBiz-based e-commerce web site be presented by browsers of smart >> phones ? How hard would it be to enable it ? >> Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the requirements >> of the customer >> Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the geolocation of >> the customer >> Adding support for customization of products/services and changes in the >> prices according to the customization during the purchase process >> Adding support for a composition solution of hardware, software and human >> services (bundles, kits). A seller could compose a new product by >> combining several existing products >> Adding support for manual approval of products by site administrators >> before submission of the products to the e-commerce site >> Adding support for managing versions of the software applications that are >> sold on the e-commerce website >> >> Sorry for so many questions and sorry if some of them are out of context. >> >> Best Regards, >> Vadim >> ------------------------------- >> Vadim Eisenberg >> IT for Healthcare& Life Sciences >> IBM Research - Haifa >> >> > > |
In reply to this post by David E. Jones-2
Hi David,
Thank you for your answer and explanations. I failed with the formatting for the second time, so I will try to write in plain text from now on. You wrote: "when asking questions here please keep in mind that responses you get are volunteer responses and the only qualification you can be sure of for those responding is that they are capable of subscribing to the mailing list. If many people respond with something consistent then it is a safer bet that you can rely on the information, but usually not otherwise." I guess this is how Open Source works :) ? by volunteers contributing code to the product and answering questions in the mailing lists. I still would like to hear as much opinions as possible from the developers "in the trenches", so anybody is welcome to provide them. I would like to thank BJ again for providing his opinions. Please note that the project I participate in, is a kind of Research and Development project, sponsored by EU and implemented by a consortium of academic and industrial partners. The project is planned for four years (ending in January 2014). One of its goals is to create an open source implementation of an e-commerce solution - uStore, suited for the field of AAL - Ambient Assisted Living (that is a kind of "smart home" for senior citizens). The main concept of uStore is similar to the concept of AppStore of Apple ? the AAL application developers would be able to upload and sell their applications from the store. In addition to that, AAL related devices and human services would be sold. An additional important feature is to integrate "social commerce" ? user reviews, blogs, forums etc. Please note that developing uStore is Research and Development and there are not yet concrete AAL businesses that would immediately use it. The goal is to provide some reference open source implementation in four years. This implementation would be later supported and extended by an open-source community according to the business needs of AAL businesses, once some real AAL businesses would use it. One of the goals is to reuse the existing open-source OOTB solutions in any field as much as possible in order to save resources as much as possible. As a result of the situation, the accent here is more on e-commerce features of existing e-commerce solutions, especially related to the e-commerce frontend, than on their ERP features. We would like to use the simplest and the most straightforward standard business model (preferably OOTB) for e-commerce and invest more resources into the frontend features. By the frontend features I mean the website, its accessibility, including presentation on smart phones, search, recommendations, user reviews, blogs and forums etc. As I understand the strength of OfBiz is actually its rich ERP data model, however here we probably do not need the advanced ERP features of OfBiz. I have read your HEMP Light document ? it was interesting and provided some insights for me. Currently we are in process of finalizing the use cases/requirements of the uStore and evaluating existing e-commerce solutions, with OfBiz being one of the main candidates. Thanks & Regards, Vadim ------------------------------- Vadim Eisenberg IT for Healthcare & Life Sciences IBM Research - Haifa David E Jones <[hidden email]> wrote on 03/09/2010 10:00:38 PM: > From: > > David E Jones <[hidden email]> > > To: > > [hidden email] > > Date: > > 03/09/2010 10:01 PM > > Subject: > > Re: OfBiz e-commerce customization > > > Vadim, > > About your formatting: this mailing list filters out all HTML > because HTML email messages tend to be VERY large and the Apache > Software Foundation in general has many thousands of messages going > through mailing lists every day. > > Back to your original question: when asking questions here please > keep in mind that responses you get are volunteer responses and the > only qualification you can be sure of for those responding is that > they are capable of subscribing to the mailing list. If many people > respond with something consistent then it is a safer bet that you > can rely on the information, but usually not otherwise. With a > question as long and involved as yours chances are you'll only get a > small number of responses, and chances are your experience will be > VERY different from those few who do respond. > > OFBiz is a large project. A good developer can learn to work > effectively with the framework with a couple of weeks of training > and a couple of months of hands-on development. However, even a good > developer will have a hard time picking up all of the data > structures and business logic even after many months of study, and > realistically since most people don't or can't do that, it usually > takes years of work experience and even then they'll only have > knowledge of the parts of the system that have had the opportunity > to work with. > > Understanding the business side is much easier for someone who has a > good business background, and by good business background I mean > really good experience with how businesses actually operate and what > sorts of information businesses actually keep track of when > operating. Sometimes people coming out of university business > programs will have this, but most of the time they do not. Most > people with business degrees will have learned more about laws and > how to manipulate people than about the myriad of complexities of > managing a warehouse, handling purchasing, or tracking information > about products to facility the many touch points with those products > throughout the company, and making it easy for customers to find > products they want, or how to figure out where customer interest > intersects with stuff you want to move. > > So anyway, keep in mind that your diving into a pretty comprehensive > ERP system, but one that is made up of what people have seen fit to > contribute for free. An extremely wide variety of data structures > and common business processes are represented in the system, though > many are not complete, or at least not complete in the way your > client will want to use them. > > The only way to really be sure is to document ALL business > activities (usually easiest if organized by process and not by role > or by system function), and then do an overlap/gap analysis to see > how each business activity would be done in the system, or if there > is not something to do it (or it is not adequate for what your users > want) then detail what the system needs to do to help manage that > activity. Once you've done that, then you'll know what the system > can do for you as-is, and what needs to be done to expand and change > the system to do what your client needs. Short of that, everything > is a guess and guaranteed to be wrong (the only question is by how > much and in which direction(s)...). > > To help with that I recommend this material (this is what I use > > http://www.dejc.com/home/HEMP.html > > I'd also recommend looking at some of the generic business process > stories that have come from OFBiz-based projects and been refined > somewhat over the years (though keep in mind that these stories in > some places represent activities that are not managed by OOTB OFBiz, > ie these need an overlap/gap analysis document to make them more meaningful): > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBREQDES/Universal > +Business+Process+Library+Index > > Best of luck, > -David > > > On Sep 3, 2010, at 11:32 AM, Vadim Eisenberg wrote: > > > Hello BJ and other OfBiz developers, > > > > I was not subscribed to the mailing list so I did not receive the > > of BJ to my previous message - > > <a href="http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/ofbiz-user/201009.mbox/%">http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/ofbiz-user/201009.mbox/% > [hidden email]%3E > > . Because of that I cannot post a response to it. Secondly, I used a wrong > > MIME in my previous message, so all the bullets and formatting were > > missing. I am reposting the original message below in the right format > > (any additional comments/opinions are welcome). In addition, my response > > to BJ follows. Sorry for the mess I created. > > > > Hi BJ, > > > > Thank you for your prompt response. I think I've got the general idea. I > > still would like to ask a question about learning OfBiz: > > The three volumes of the data model book comprise about 1700 pages > > together. Should I use the book as a reference or do I have to read all > > the three volumes before starting my work on OfBiz ? Which parts of the > > book are required before I begin my work ? > > > > Thanks & Regards, > > Vadim > > > > > > > > > > My original message: > > > > > Hello OfBiz developers, > > > > My name is Vadim Eisenberg and I work at IBM Research - Haifa, on the > > UniversAAL project - http://universaal.org/. It is a consortium European > > project. Its goal is to create a platform for applications, services and > > devices for Ambient Assisted Living, that is a kind of "Smart Home" for > > senior citizens. As part of the platform, we - several software developers > > - have to develop an e-commerce site - uStore > > http://universaal.org/index.php? > option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=9&Itemid=21 > > . This site would be a one-stop-shop for software, services and devices > > for Ambient Assisted Living. > > > > We consider using OfBiz for implementation of uStore. > > > > I would like to ask you several questions about the features we want to > > implement. I would be glad to hear any information you can tell me about > > how hard could it be for us to implement these features. Please note that > > we have no prior experience with OfBiz. > > > > Any your thoughts, intuition, experience, advice about OfBiz/business > > programming are welcome. > > > > In particular, the following information would help us very much : > > How much work should be done by us in order to implement all the features > > that follow (Person/Months, Person/Years, for skilled OfBiz > > developers/general software engineers). Which part would be to use > > existing "extension" mechanisms of OfBiz and which part would be actually > > changing the OfBiz code ? Here your intuition/experience from related > > projects is welcome, we do not need exact numbers, just a ballpark. > > How much time the general software developers have to learn about OfBiz > > and how skilled in OfBiz they should become in order to implement these > > features > > > > E-commerce website features: > > Using e-commerce site for selling software (such as AppStore of iPhone) > > and downloadable files in general (video, presentations of courses etc.). > > Here the issue is to manage links where the bought files could be > > downloaded. The idea is to prevent a situation in which buyers would buy a > > software application, receive a link to it for downloading and share the > > link afterwards with anybody they want, so anybody would be able to > > download the application without paying for it. > > Using e-commerce site for selling services (human services and others) > > Extending e-commerce site with general widgets, such as calendar, clock, > > map, a widget for downloading files, etc., and integrating the widgets > > with the OfBiz > > > > Integration with other websites/services: > > Integrating an e-commerce website with another (non-OfBiz backed) site - > > adding possibility for sellers to add products to the e-commerce site via > > the other site, to see customer feedback provided on the e-commerce site > > via the other site > > Integrating an e-commerce website with another (possibly non-OfBiz) > > e-commerce website, such as eBay/Amazon. What are the current > > possibilities of integration with eBay ? > > Integrating an e-commerce website with post/delivery services/sites > > > > Adding advanced features: > > Adding support for signing business contracts between service consumers > > and service providers, between providers of different services etc. via > > the e-commerce site > > Adding support for applying capability/requirement model, such as > > JSR-124, (for example for matching between customer's requirements and > > capabilities of software, devices and services). The customer or software > > agent on behalf of the customer could provide his requirements as part of > > his account information, and the e-commerce solution would match between > > the products (according to their capabilities) and the requirements of the > > customers. > > Has OfBiz a recommendation engine (providing recommendations to a user > > based on his activity - searches, purchases, reviews etc.) ? If no, how > > hard would it be to add it ? > > Can the OfBiz-based e-commerce web site be presented by browsers of smart > > phones ? How hard would it be to enable it ? > > Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the requirements > > of the customer > > Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the geolocation of > > the customer > > Adding support for customization of products/services and changes in the > > prices according to the customization during the purchase process > > Adding support for a composition solution of hardware, software and human > > services (bundles, kits). A seller could compose a new product by > > combining several existing products > > Adding support for manual approval of products by site administrators > > before submission of the products to the e-commerce site > > Adding support for managing versions of the software applications that are > > sold on the e-commerce website > > > > Sorry for so many questions and sorry if some of them are out of context. > > > > Best Regards, > > Vadim > > ------------------------------- > > Vadim Eisenberg > > IT for Healthcare & Life Sciences > > IBM Research - Haifa > > > > > |
one of the concepts that is hard for most web developers is ofbiz
Ecommerce is like a third Tier Application. Ecommerce depends on all the other Back-end applications and the framework. So you don't design a page then add the data in the db to support it. Also you will find the Ecommerce in the Second Volume starting about page 393. You can also look at the data model for Health care in Vol II. There is a section about Health Care Delivery. mind you this is only data modeling and the actual business logic and UI has to be developed. My back ground is hardware automation as well as embedded applications. in the 70's I designed a home that was automated, it used compressed air and cylinders for activation of doors and ramps. At that time proximity sensors were all that was available. I say this because of your focus. Being nearly 70 I have worked towards a computer companion, as such, using AI. its purpose was to be my guide when I got too forgetful. so here is something you may not have considered. Ofbiz as the Home automation with in the home. Ofbiz has a sync capability used in the POS that could be used to sync the ofbiz running in the home with the main website. This way each person would have their own personalize themes for their home. this would be an embedded Linux server with touch screen. it is all enclosed. you would use the network that automatically connects to other network nodes and builds an Intranet in the home. this allows for other systems to interact with ofbiz. The Framework of ofbiz has the ability to run schedule services. the scripts for the services can be modified without re-compiling or restarting ofbiz, though the actual service defs do require a restart if changed or added. this is being worked on so the home system can be updated on the fly. There is also a Setup component that can be added to for new components. needless to say I very sold on ofbiz and what it can do. it does though, as David said have places that need to fleshed out. ========================= BJ Freeman Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52> Specialtymarket.com <http://www.specialtymarket.com/> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man Vadim Eisenberg sent the following on 9/4/2010 1:02 AM: > Hi David, > > Thank you for your answer and explanations. I failed with the formatting > for the second time, so I will try to write in plain text from now on. > > You wrote: "when asking questions here please keep in mind that responses > you get are volunteer responses and the only qualification you can be sure > of for those responding > is that they are capable of subscribing to the mailing list. If many > people respond with something > consistent then it is a safer bet that you can rely on the information, > but usually not otherwise." > > I guess this is how Open Source works :) ? by volunteers contributing code > to the product and answering questions in the mailing lists. I still would > like to hear as much opinions as possible from the developers "in the > trenches", so anybody is welcome to provide them. I would like to thank BJ > again for providing his opinions. > > Please note that the project I participate in, is a kind of Research and > Development project, sponsored by EU and implemented by a consortium of > academic and industrial partners. The project is planned for four years > (ending in January 2014). One of its goals is to create an open source > implementation of an e-commerce solution - uStore, suited for the field of > AAL - Ambient Assisted Living (that is a kind of "smart home" for senior > citizens). The main concept of uStore is similar to the concept of > AppStore of Apple ? the AAL application developers would be able to upload > and sell their applications from the store. In addition to that, AAL > related devices and human services would be sold. An additional important > feature is to integrate "social commerce" ? user reviews, blogs, forums > etc. > > Please note that developing uStore is Research and Development and there > are not yet concrete AAL businesses that would immediately use it. The > goal is to provide some reference open source implementation in four > years. This implementation would be later supported and extended by an > open-source community according to the business needs of AAL businesses, > once some real AAL businesses would use it. One of the goals is to reuse > the existing open-source OOTB solutions in any field as much as possible > in order to save resources as much as possible. > > As a result of the situation, the accent here is more on e-commerce > features of existing e-commerce solutions, especially related to the > e-commerce frontend, than on their ERP features. We would like to use the > simplest and the most straightforward standard business model (preferably > OOTB) for e-commerce and invest more resources into the frontend features. > By the frontend features I mean the website, its accessibility, including > presentation on smart phones, search, recommendations, user reviews, blogs > and forums etc. As I understand the strength of OfBiz is actually its rich > ERP data model, however here we probably do not need the advanced ERP > features of OfBiz. > > I have read your HEMP Light document ? it was interesting and provided > some insights for me. Currently we are in process of finalizing the use > cases/requirements of the uStore and evaluating existing e-commerce > solutions, with OfBiz being one of the main candidates. > > Thanks& Regards, > Vadim > > ------------------------------- > Vadim Eisenberg > IT for Healthcare& Life Sciences > IBM Research - Haifa > > > David E Jones<[hidden email]> wrote on 03/09/2010 10:00:38 PM: > >> From: >> >> David E Jones<[hidden email]> >> >> To: >> >> [hidden email] >> >> Date: >> >> 03/09/2010 10:01 PM >> >> Subject: >> >> Re: OfBiz e-commerce customization >> >> >> Vadim, >> >> About your formatting: this mailing list filters out all HTML >> because HTML email messages tend to be VERY large and the Apache >> Software Foundation in general has many thousands of messages going >> through mailing lists every day. >> >> Back to your original question: when asking questions here please >> keep in mind that responses you get are volunteer responses and the >> only qualification you can be sure of for those responding is that >> they are capable of subscribing to the mailing list. If many people >> respond with something consistent then it is a safer bet that you >> can rely on the information, but usually not otherwise. With a >> question as long and involved as yours chances are you'll only get a >> small number of responses, and chances are your experience will be >> VERY different from those few who do respond. >> >> OFBiz is a large project. A good developer can learn to work >> effectively with the framework with a couple of weeks of training >> and a couple of months of hands-on development. However, even a good >> developer will have a hard time picking up all of the data >> structures and business logic even after many months of study, and >> realistically since most people don't or can't do that, it usually >> takes years of work experience and even then they'll only have >> knowledge of the parts of the system that have had the opportunity >> to work with. >> >> Understanding the business side is much easier for someone who has a >> good business background, and by good business background I mean >> really good experience with how businesses actually operate and what >> sorts of information businesses actually keep track of when >> operating. Sometimes people coming out of university business >> programs will have this, but most of the time they do not. Most >> people with business degrees will have learned more about laws and >> how to manipulate people than about the myriad of complexities of >> managing a warehouse, handling purchasing, or tracking information >> about products to facility the many touch points with those products >> throughout the company, and making it easy for customers to find >> products they want, or how to figure out where customer interest >> intersects with stuff you want to move. >> >> So anyway, keep in mind that your diving into a pretty comprehensive >> ERP system, but one that is made up of what people have seen fit to >> contribute for free. An extremely wide variety of data structures >> and common business processes are represented in the system, though >> many are not complete, or at least not complete in the way your >> client will want to use them. >> >> The only way to really be sure is to document ALL business >> activities (usually easiest if organized by process and not by role >> or by system function), and then do an overlap/gap analysis to see >> how each business activity would be done in the system, or if there >> is not something to do it (or it is not adequate for what your users >> want) then detail what the system needs to do to help manage that >> activity. Once you've done that, then you'll know what the system >> can do for you as-is, and what needs to be done to expand and change >> the system to do what your client needs. Short of that, everything >> is a guess and guaranteed to be wrong (the only question is by how >> much and in which direction(s)...). >> >> To help with that I recommend this material (this is what I use > withclients): >> >> http://www.dejc.com/home/HEMP.html >> >> I'd also recommend looking at some of the generic business process >> stories that have come from OFBiz-based projects and been refined >> somewhat over the years (though keep in mind that these stories in >> some places represent activities that are not managed by OOTB OFBiz, >> ie these need an overlap/gap analysis document to make them more > meaningful): >> >> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBREQDES/Universal >> +Business+Process+Library+Index >> >> Best of luck, >> -David >> >> >> On Sep 3, 2010, at 11:32 AM, Vadim Eisenberg wrote: >> >>> Hello BJ and other OfBiz developers, >>> >>> I was not subscribed to the mailing list so I did not receive the > answer >>> of BJ to my previous message - >>> <a href="http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/ofbiz-user/201009.mbox/%">http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/ofbiz-user/201009.mbox/% >> [hidden email]%3E >>> . Because of that I cannot post a response to it. Secondly, I used a > wrong >>> MIME in my previous message, so all the bullets and formatting were >>> missing. I am reposting the original message below in the right format > >>> (any additional comments/opinions are welcome). In addition, my > response >>> to BJ follows. Sorry for the mess I created. >>> >>> Hi BJ, >>> >>> Thank you for your prompt response. I think I've got the general idea. > I >>> still would like to ask a question about learning OfBiz: >>> The three volumes of the data model book comprise about 1700 pages >>> together. Should I use the book as a reference or do I have to read > all >>> the three volumes before starting my work on OfBiz ? Which parts of > the >>> book are required before I begin my work ? >>> >>> Thanks& Regards, >>> Vadim >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> My original message: >>> >> > =========================================================================================================== >>> Hello OfBiz developers, >>> >>> My name is Vadim Eisenberg and I work at IBM Research - Haifa, on the >>> UniversAAL project - http://universaal.org/. It is a consortium > European >>> project. Its goal is to create a platform for applications, services > and >>> devices for Ambient Assisted Living, that is a kind of "Smart Home" > for >>> senior citizens. As part of the platform, we - several software > developers >>> - have to develop an e-commerce site - uStore >>> http://universaal.org/index.php? >> option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=9&Itemid=21 >>> . This site would be a one-stop-shop for software, services and > devices >>> for Ambient Assisted Living. >>> >>> We consider using OfBiz for implementation of uStore. >>> >>> I would like to ask you several questions about the features we want > to >>> implement. I would be glad to hear any information you can tell me > about >>> how hard could it be for us to implement these features. Please note > that >>> we have no prior experience with OfBiz. >>> >>> Any your thoughts, intuition, experience, advice about OfBiz/business >>> programming are welcome. >>> >>> In particular, the following information would help us very much : >>> How much work should be done by us in order to implement all the > features >>> that follow (Person/Months, Person/Years, for skilled OfBiz >>> developers/general software engineers). Which part would be to use >>> existing "extension" mechanisms of OfBiz and which part would be > actually >>> changing the OfBiz code ? Here your intuition/experience from related >>> projects is welcome, we do not need exact numbers, just a ballpark. >>> How much time the general software developers have to learn about > OfBiz >>> and how skilled in OfBiz they should become in order to implement > these >>> features >>> >>> E-commerce website features: >>> Using e-commerce site for selling software (such as AppStore of > iPhone) >>> and downloadable files in general (video, presentations of courses > etc.). >>> Here the issue is to manage links where the bought files could be >>> downloaded. The idea is to prevent a situation in which buyers would > buy a >>> software application, receive a link to it for downloading and share > the >>> link afterwards with anybody they want, so anybody would be able to >>> download the application without paying for it. >>> Using e-commerce site for selling services (human services and others) >>> Extending e-commerce site with general widgets, such as calendar, > clock, >>> map, a widget for downloading files, etc., and integrating the widgets > >>> with the OfBiz >>> >>> Integration with other websites/services: >>> Integrating an e-commerce website with another (non-OfBiz backed) site > - >>> adding possibility for sellers to add products to the e-commerce site > via >>> the other site, to see customer feedback provided on the e-commerce > site >>> via the other site >>> Integrating an e-commerce website with another (possibly non-OfBiz) >>> e-commerce website, such as eBay/Amazon. What are the current >>> possibilities of integration with eBay ? >>> Integrating an e-commerce website with post/delivery services/sites >>> >>> Adding advanced features: >>> Adding support for signing business contracts between service > consumers >>> and service providers, between providers of different services etc. > via >>> the e-commerce site >>> Adding support for applying capability/requirement model, such as >>> JSR-124, (for example for matching between customer's requirements > and >>> capabilities of software, devices and services). The customer or > software >>> agent on behalf of the customer could provide his requirements as part > of >>> his account information, and the e-commerce solution would match > between >>> the products (according to their capabilities) and the requirements of > the >>> customers. >>> Has OfBiz a recommendation engine (providing recommendations to a user > >>> based on his activity - searches, purchases, reviews etc.) ? If no, > how >>> hard would it be to add it ? >>> Can the OfBiz-based e-commerce web site be presented by browsers of > smart >>> phones ? How hard would it be to enable it ? >>> Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the > requirements >>> of the customer >>> Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the > geolocation of >>> the customer >>> Adding support for customization of products/services and changes in > the >>> prices according to the customization during the purchase process >>> Adding support for a composition solution of hardware, software and > human >>> services (bundles, kits). A seller could compose a new product by >>> combining several existing products >>> Adding support for manual approval of products by site administrators >>> before submission of the products to the e-commerce site >>> Adding support for managing versions of the software applications that > are >>> sold on the e-commerce website >>> >>> Sorry for so many questions and sorry if some of them are out of > context. >>> >>> Best Regards, >>> Vadim >>> ------------------------------- >>> Vadim Eisenberg >>> IT for Healthcare& Life Sciences >>> IBM Research - Haifa >>> >>> >> > |
In reply to this post by BJ Freeman
On Sep 3, 2010, at 7:23 PM, BJ Freeman wrote: > > David and I come from different Back grounds and see thing drastically different. > David is College educated with 10+ experience in software. > My computer/software began in 1976. > I am self taught starting in 1976 with building my first Computer from chips and wire wrap. on paper wrote the monitor then loaded it by switches. I have been hired by companies to do hardware design to manufacturing though 1980's. > In 1980 I moved from machine code to high level code, Basic, C, Pascal, and Cobol. > I learned from experience what worked and does not at the compiler level to provide lean and clean code. > I have been hired by companies to pull the hardware/software projects that were behind schedule and cost over runs to bring them back inline. > I was also hired by companies to take their paper way of doing business and computerize it. > so like Davids Stories I used the paper process to define the functions at high level then worked down to the low level code. What I have in experience lets me fill in the gaps that end user may not have thought of. > I use a method of research of code to understand it, Admittedly, I don't have the advantage of being the Architect of ofbiz that David has. > I break down software to black boxes with input and output and the process it does. I then create a state diagram on how all the black boxes interact from a hardware/software perspective. > Along with the design of the software is testing units to validate each black box. each Black box has a set of stubs that allow it to receive and send data that is evaluated by the test unit. > So in this respect I see myself more as a integrator than A software Design engineer. > When I came to ofbiz, 2003, I already had systems that were working, so I have a lot of experience in converting from other system to ofbiz. Also a learning curve of how to keep the continued changes in the code from effecting my customizations. > > There are others that also have a lot of experience before ofbiz that post here. > > Just the fact we volunteer should not be construed as not knowing anything. Yes, you're absolutely right about this BJ. I'm sorry if what I wrote offended you, I really meant it as a generality and not targeted at you personally. > It is also surprising that those that seem the deepest into ofbiz rarely contribute on the user Mailing list. A few do, but not as many as is on the list of developers and committers. It is unfortunate, but it shouldn't be too surprising. In general I'd say the current involvement of many of the people who made OFBiz what it is are barely involved any more. The reasons are pretty simple though (IMO anyway), mainly related to motivation and reasons for contributing code and answering questions on the mailing lists, and also related to the resources necessary to allow a person to do that. The main factor seems to be that when the project was growing there were lots of consulting opportunities that paid enough to leave extra time for people to work on pet projects and things of interest and enough to provide motivation to do so in order to attract more and better work. That just isn't the case any more. For me it's been a really interesting experience. I worked a lot on helping people and growing the community (especially attracting contributors) over the first few years of the project because I thought the open community-driven model was the best way to go. You don't really know what something's like until problems arise because before that you've only really seen one side of it. Now that I've seen the other side of this model I no longer think it the best (especially in terms of software quality), though I still think it is a great model for certain things. The general idea is great, but there are issues with enough motivation and flow of resources to get, and keep, quality people involved. If I understand right, that's kind of what you were getting at BJ. Whatever the case, thank you for your continued involvement in the project and your efforts to help people who ask questions. -David > David E Jones sent the following on 9/3/2010 12:00 PM: > > >> >> Vadim, >> >> About your formatting: this mailing list filters out all HTML because HTML email messages tend to be VERY large and the Apache Software Foundation in general has many thousands of messages going through mailing lists every day. >> >> Back to your original question: when asking questions here please keep in mind that responses you get are volunteer responses and the only qualification you can be sure of for those responding is that they are capable of subscribing to the mailing list. If many people respond with something consistent then it is a safer bet that you can rely on the information, but usually not otherwise. With a question as long and involved as yours chances are you'll only get a small number of responses, and chances are your experience will be VERY different from those few who do respond. >> >> OFBiz is a large project. A good developer can learn to work effectively with the framework with a couple of weeks of training and a couple of months of hands-on development. However, even a good developer will have a hard time picking up all of the data structures and business logic even after many months of study, and realistically since most people don't or can't do that, it usually takes years of work experience and even then they'll only have knowledge of the parts of the system that have had the opportunity to work with. >> >> Understanding the business side is much easier for someone who has a good business background, and by good business background I mean really good experience with how businesses actually operate and what sorts of information businesses actually keep track of when operating. Sometimes people coming out of university business programs will have this, but most of the time they do not. Most people with business degrees will have learned more about laws and how to manipulate people than about the myriad of complexities of managing a warehouse, handling purchasing, or tracking information about products to facility the many touch points with those products throughout the company, and making it easy for customers to find products they want, or how to figure out where customer interest intersects with stuff you want to move. >> >> So anyway, keep in mind that your diving into a pretty comprehensive ERP system, but one that is made up of what people have seen fit to contribute for free. An extremely wide variety of data structures and common business processes are represented in the system, though many are not complete, or at least not complete in the way your client will want to use them. >> >> The only way to really be sure is to document ALL business activities (usually easiest if organized by process and not by role or by system function), and then do an overlap/gap analysis to see how each business activity would be done in the system, or if there is not something to do it (or it is not adequate for what your users want) then detail what the system needs to do to help manage that activity. Once you've done that, then you'll know what the system can do for you as-is, and what needs to be done to expand and change the system to do what your client needs. Short of that, everything is a guess and guaranteed to be wrong (the only question is by how much and in which direction(s)...). >> >> To help with that I recommend this material (this is what I use with clients): >> >> http://www.dejc.com/home/HEMP.html >> >> I'd also recommend looking at some of the generic business process stories that have come from OFBiz-based projects and been refined somewhat over the years (though keep in mind that these stories in some places represent activities that are not managed by OOTB OFBiz, ie these need an overlap/gap analysis document to make them more meaningful): >> >> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBREQDES/Universal+Business+Process+Library+Index >> >> Best of luck, >> -David >> >> >> On Sep 3, 2010, at 11:32 AM, Vadim Eisenberg wrote: >> >>> Hello BJ and other OfBiz developers, >>> >>> I was not subscribed to the mailing list so I did not receive the answer >>> of BJ to my previous message - >>> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/ofbiz-user/201009.mbox/%3C4C7FFC99.9020109@...%3E >>> . Because of that I cannot post a response to it. Secondly, I used a wrong >>> MIME in my previous message, so all the bullets and formatting were >>> missing. I am reposting the original message below in the right format >>> (any additional comments/opinions are welcome). In addition, my response >>> to BJ follows. Sorry for the mess I created. >>> >>> Hi BJ, >>> >>> Thank you for your prompt response. I think I've got the general idea. I >>> still would like to ask a question about learning OfBiz: >>> The three volumes of the data model book comprise about 1700 pages >>> together. Should I use the book as a reference or do I have to read all >>> the three volumes before starting my work on OfBiz ? Which parts of the >>> book are required before I begin my work ? >>> >>> Thanks& Regards, >>> Vadim >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> My original message: >>> =========================================================================================================== >>> Hello OfBiz developers, >>> >>> My name is Vadim Eisenberg and I work at IBM Research - Haifa, on the >>> UniversAAL project - http://universaal.org/. It is a consortium European >>> project. Its goal is to create a platform for applications, services and >>> devices for Ambient Assisted Living, that is a kind of "Smart Home" for >>> senior citizens. As part of the platform, we - several software developers >>> - have to develop an e-commerce site - uStore >>> http://universaal.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=9&Itemid=21 >>> . This site would be a one-stop-shop for software, services and devices >>> for Ambient Assisted Living. >>> >>> We consider using OfBiz for implementation of uStore. >>> >>> I would like to ask you several questions about the features we want to >>> implement. I would be glad to hear any information you can tell me about >>> how hard could it be for us to implement these features. Please note that >>> we have no prior experience with OfBiz. >>> >>> Any your thoughts, intuition, experience, advice about OfBiz/business >>> programming are welcome. >>> >>> In particular, the following information would help us very much : >>> How much work should be done by us in order to implement all the features >>> that follow (Person/Months, Person/Years, for skilled OfBiz >>> developers/general software engineers). Which part would be to use >>> existing "extension" mechanisms of OfBiz and which part would be actually >>> changing the OfBiz code ? Here your intuition/experience from related >>> projects is welcome, we do not need exact numbers, just a ballpark. >>> How much time the general software developers have to learn about OfBiz >>> and how skilled in OfBiz they should become in order to implement these >>> features >>> >>> E-commerce website features: >>> Using e-commerce site for selling software (such as AppStore of iPhone) >>> and downloadable files in general (video, presentations of courses etc.). >>> Here the issue is to manage links where the bought files could be >>> downloaded. The idea is to prevent a situation in which buyers would buy a >>> software application, receive a link to it for downloading and share the >>> link afterwards with anybody they want, so anybody would be able to >>> download the application without paying for it. >>> Using e-commerce site for selling services (human services and others) >>> Extending e-commerce site with general widgets, such as calendar, clock, >>> map, a widget for downloading files, etc., and integrating the widgets >>> with the OfBiz >>> >>> Integration with other websites/services: >>> Integrating an e-commerce website with another (non-OfBiz backed) site - >>> adding possibility for sellers to add products to the e-commerce site via >>> the other site, to see customer feedback provided on the e-commerce site >>> via the other site >>> Integrating an e-commerce website with another (possibly non-OfBiz) >>> e-commerce website, such as eBay/Amazon. What are the current >>> possibilities of integration with eBay ? >>> Integrating an e-commerce website with post/delivery services/sites >>> >>> Adding advanced features: >>> Adding support for signing business contracts between service consumers >>> and service providers, between providers of different services etc. via >>> the e-commerce site >>> Adding support for applying capability/requirement model, such as >>> JSR-124, (for example for matching between customer's requirements and >>> capabilities of software, devices and services). The customer or software >>> agent on behalf of the customer could provide his requirements as part of >>> his account information, and the e-commerce solution would match between >>> the products (according to their capabilities) and the requirements of the >>> customers. >>> Has OfBiz a recommendation engine (providing recommendations to a user >>> based on his activity - searches, purchases, reviews etc.) ? If no, how >>> hard would it be to add it ? >>> Can the OfBiz-based e-commerce web site be presented by browsers of smart >>> phones ? How hard would it be to enable it ? >>> Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the requirements >>> of the customer >>> Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the geolocation of >>> the customer >>> Adding support for customization of products/services and changes in the >>> prices according to the customization during the purchase process >>> Adding support for a composition solution of hardware, software and human >>> services (bundles, kits). A seller could compose a new product by >>> combining several existing products >>> Adding support for manual approval of products by site administrators >>> before submission of the products to the e-commerce site >>> Adding support for managing versions of the software applications that are >>> sold on the e-commerce website >>> >>> Sorry for so many questions and sorry if some of them are out of context. >>> >>> Best Regards, >>> Vadim >>> ------------------------------- >>> Vadim Eisenberg >>> IT for Healthcare& Life Sciences >>> IBM Research - Haifa >>> >>> >> >> |
David Don't give up the ship yet.
Obiz in my estimation is the best thing out there from a overall maintenance and adding to. I believed that back in 2002 when I first saw it and believe that now. The first problem you ran into was you started during a recession. So people were looking for "inexpensive" solutions. To my knowledge there is no model for software where consultant are hired just because it is there. Usually it takes a great deal of marketing smarts and some luck to get your software to be used. Like the Apple/Microsoft battles of the 80's they got a lot of free publicity. Those of the GNU community had "other jobs" and had a passion and belief so they contributed. The license part about if change it contribute back also had a great deal to do with it. Both in the Commercial and the GNU/Apache community responses to bugs and incomplete code has also been what spurs confidence. Bottom line even if you have to be a dishwasher to survived (past experience from the 1970 recession) don't give up you dream. Continue to support those that want to contribute and give Guidance. You will be rewarded in time and get the satisfaction of a job well done. ========================= BJ Freeman Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52> Specialtymarket.com <http://www.specialtymarket.com/> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man David E Jones sent the following on 9/4/2010 7:21 AM: > It is unfortunate, but it shouldn't be too surprising. In general I'd say the current involvement of many of the people who made OFBiz what it is are barely involved any more. The reasons are pretty simple though (IMO anyway), mainly related to motivation and reasons for contributing code and answering questions on the mailing lists, and also related to the resources necessary to allow a person to do that. The main factor seems to be that when the project was growing there were lots of consulting opportunities that paid enough to leave extra time for people to work on pet projects and things of interest and enough to provide motivation to do so in order to attract more and better work. That just isn't the case any more. > > For me it's been a really interesting experience. I worked a lot on helping people and growing the community (especially attracting contributors) over the first few years of the project because I thought the open community-driven model was the best way to go. You don't really know what something's like until problems arise because before that you've only really seen one side of it. Now that I've seen the other side of this model I no longer think it the best (especially in terms of software quality), though I still think it is a great model for certain things. The general idea is great, but there are issues with enough motivation and flow of resources to get, and keep, quality people involved. > > If I understand right, that's kind of what you were getting at BJ. Whatever the case, thank you for your continued involvement in the project and your efforts to help people who ask questions. |
In reply to this post by Vadim Eisenberg
It seems your strategy is very clear: you need a set of UI for free and
will sell your middle ware in the future. If so, I guess OFBiz will not be your choice. 在 2010-09-04六的 11:02 +0300,Vadim Eisenberg写道: > Hi David, > > Thank you for your answer and explanations. I failed with the formatting > for the second time, so I will try to write in plain text from now on. > > You wrote: "when asking questions here please keep in mind that responses > you get are volunteer responses and the only qualification you can be sure > of for those responding > is that they are capable of subscribing to the mailing list. If many > people respond with something > consistent then it is a safer bet that you can rely on the information, > but usually not otherwise." > > I guess this is how Open Source works :) ? by volunteers contributing code > to the product and answering questions in the mailing lists. I still would > like to hear as much opinions as possible from the developers "in the > trenches", so anybody is welcome to provide them. I would like to thank BJ > again for providing his opinions. > > Please note that the project I participate in, is a kind of Research and > Development project, sponsored by EU and implemented by a consortium of > academic and industrial partners. The project is planned for four years > (ending in January 2014). One of its goals is to create an open source > implementation of an e-commerce solution - uStore, suited for the field of > AAL - Ambient Assisted Living (that is a kind of "smart home" for senior > citizens). The main concept of uStore is similar to the concept of > AppStore of Apple ? the AAL application developers would be able to upload > and sell their applications from the store. In addition to that, AAL > related devices and human services would be sold. An additional important > feature is to integrate "social commerce" ? user reviews, blogs, forums > etc. > > Please note that developing uStore is Research and Development and there > are not yet concrete AAL businesses that would immediately use it. The > goal is to provide some reference open source implementation in four > years. This implementation would be later supported and extended by an > open-source community according to the business needs of AAL businesses, > once some real AAL businesses would use it. One of the goals is to reuse > the existing open-source OOTB solutions in any field as much as possible > in order to save resources as much as possible. > > As a result of the situation, the accent here is more on e-commerce > features of existing e-commerce solutions, especially related to the > e-commerce frontend, than on their ERP features. We would like to use the > simplest and the most straightforward standard business model (preferably > OOTB) for e-commerce and invest more resources into the frontend features. > By the frontend features I mean the website, its accessibility, including > presentation on smart phones, search, recommendations, user reviews, blogs > and forums etc. As I understand the strength of OfBiz is actually its rich > ERP data model, however here we probably do not need the advanced ERP > features of OfBiz. > > I have read your HEMP Light document ? it was interesting and provided > some insights for me. Currently we are in process of finalizing the use > cases/requirements of the uStore and evaluating existing e-commerce > solutions, with OfBiz being one of the main candidates. > > Thanks & Regards, > Vadim > > ------------------------------- > Vadim Eisenberg > IT for Healthcare & Life Sciences > IBM Research - Haifa > > > David E Jones <[hidden email]> wrote on 03/09/2010 10:00:38 PM: > > > From: > > > > David E Jones <[hidden email]> > > > > To: > > > > [hidden email] > > > > Date: > > > > 03/09/2010 10:01 PM > > > > Subject: > > > > Re: OfBiz e-commerce customization > > > > > > Vadim, > > > > About your formatting: this mailing list filters out all HTML > > because HTML email messages tend to be VERY large and the Apache > > Software Foundation in general has many thousands of messages going > > through mailing lists every day. > > > > Back to your original question: when asking questions here please > > keep in mind that responses you get are volunteer responses and the > > only qualification you can be sure of for those responding is that > > they are capable of subscribing to the mailing list. If many people > > respond with something consistent then it is a safer bet that you > > can rely on the information, but usually not otherwise. With a > > question as long and involved as yours chances are you'll only get a > > small number of responses, and chances are your experience will be > > VERY different from those few who do respond. > > > > OFBiz is a large project. A good developer can learn to work > > effectively with the framework with a couple of weeks of training > > and a couple of months of hands-on development. However, even a good > > developer will have a hard time picking up all of the data > > structures and business logic even after many months of study, and > > realistically since most people don't or can't do that, it usually > > takes years of work experience and even then they'll only have > > knowledge of the parts of the system that have had the opportunity > > to work with. > > > > Understanding the business side is much easier for someone who has a > > good business background, and by good business background I mean > > really good experience with how businesses actually operate and what > > sorts of information businesses actually keep track of when > > operating. Sometimes people coming out of university business > > programs will have this, but most of the time they do not. Most > > people with business degrees will have learned more about laws and > > how to manipulate people than about the myriad of complexities of > > managing a warehouse, handling purchasing, or tracking information > > about products to facility the many touch points with those products > > throughout the company, and making it easy for customers to find > > products they want, or how to figure out where customer interest > > intersects with stuff you want to move. > > > > So anyway, keep in mind that your diving into a pretty comprehensive > > ERP system, but one that is made up of what people have seen fit to > > contribute for free. An extremely wide variety of data structures > > and common business processes are represented in the system, though > > many are not complete, or at least not complete in the way your > > client will want to use them. > > > > The only way to really be sure is to document ALL business > > activities (usually easiest if organized by process and not by role > > or by system function), and then do an overlap/gap analysis to see > > how each business activity would be done in the system, or if there > > is not something to do it (or it is not adequate for what your users > > want) then detail what the system needs to do to help manage that > > activity. Once you've done that, then you'll know what the system > > can do for you as-is, and what needs to be done to expand and change > > the system to do what your client needs. Short of that, everything > > is a guess and guaranteed to be wrong (the only question is by how > > much and in which direction(s)...). > > > > To help with that I recommend this material (this is what I use > withclients): > > > > http://www.dejc.com/home/HEMP.html > > > > I'd also recommend looking at some of the generic business process > > stories that have come from OFBiz-based projects and been refined > > somewhat over the years (though keep in mind that these stories in > > some places represent activities that are not managed by OOTB OFBiz, > > ie these need an overlap/gap analysis document to make them more > meaningful): > > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBREQDES/Universal > > +Business+Process+Library+Index > > > > Best of luck, > > -David > > > > > > On Sep 3, 2010, at 11:32 AM, Vadim Eisenberg wrote: > > > > > Hello BJ and other OfBiz developers, > > > > > > I was not subscribed to the mailing list so I did not receive the > answer > > > of BJ to my previous message - > > > <a href="http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/ofbiz-user/201009.mbox/%">http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/ofbiz-user/201009.mbox/% > > [hidden email]%3E > > > . Because of that I cannot post a response to it. Secondly, I used a > wrong > > > MIME in my previous message, so all the bullets and formatting were > > > missing. I am reposting the original message below in the right format > > > > (any additional comments/opinions are welcome). In addition, my > response > > > to BJ follows. Sorry for the mess I created. > > > > > > Hi BJ, > > > > > > Thank you for your prompt response. I think I've got the general idea. > I > > > still would like to ask a question about learning OfBiz: > > > The three volumes of the data model book comprise about 1700 pages > > > together. Should I use the book as a reference or do I have to read > all > > > the three volumes before starting my work on OfBiz ? Which parts of > the > > > book are required before I begin my work ? > > > > > > Thanks & Regards, > > > Vadim > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My original message: > > > > > > =========================================================================================================== > > > Hello OfBiz developers, > > > > > > My name is Vadim Eisenberg and I work at IBM Research - Haifa, on the > > > UniversAAL project - http://universaal.org/. It is a consortium > European > > > project. Its goal is to create a platform for applications, services > and > > > devices for Ambient Assisted Living, that is a kind of "Smart Home" > for > > > senior citizens. As part of the platform, we - several software > developers > > > - have to develop an e-commerce site - uStore > > > http://universaal.org/index.php? > > option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=9&Itemid=21 > > > . This site would be a one-stop-shop for software, services and > devices > > > for Ambient Assisted Living. > > > > > > We consider using OfBiz for implementation of uStore. > > > > > > I would like to ask you several questions about the features we want > to > > > implement. I would be glad to hear any information you can tell me > about > > > how hard could it be for us to implement these features. Please note > that > > > we have no prior experience with OfBiz. > > > > > > Any your thoughts, intuition, experience, advice about OfBiz/business > > > programming are welcome. > > > > > > In particular, the following information would help us very much : > > > How much work should be done by us in order to implement all the > features > > > that follow (Person/Months, Person/Years, for skilled OfBiz > > > developers/general software engineers). Which part would be to use > > > existing "extension" mechanisms of OfBiz and which part would be > actually > > > changing the OfBiz code ? Here your intuition/experience from related > > > projects is welcome, we do not need exact numbers, just a ballpark. > > > How much time the general software developers have to learn about > OfBiz > > > and how skilled in OfBiz they should become in order to implement > these > > > features > > > > > > E-commerce website features: > > > Using e-commerce site for selling software (such as AppStore of > iPhone) > > > and downloadable files in general (video, presentations of courses > etc.). > > > Here the issue is to manage links where the bought files could be > > > downloaded. The idea is to prevent a situation in which buyers would > buy a > > > software application, receive a link to it for downloading and share > the > > > link afterwards with anybody they want, so anybody would be able to > > > download the application without paying for it. > > > Using e-commerce site for selling services (human services and others) > > > Extending e-commerce site with general widgets, such as calendar, > clock, > > > map, a widget for downloading files, etc., and integrating the widgets > > > > with the OfBiz > > > > > > Integration with other websites/services: > > > Integrating an e-commerce website with another (non-OfBiz backed) site > - > > > adding possibility for sellers to add products to the e-commerce site > via > > > the other site, to see customer feedback provided on the e-commerce > site > > > via the other site > > > Integrating an e-commerce website with another (possibly non-OfBiz) > > > e-commerce website, such as eBay/Amazon. What are the current > > > possibilities of integration with eBay ? > > > Integrating an e-commerce website with post/delivery services/sites > > > > > > Adding advanced features: > > > Adding support for signing business contracts between service > consumers > > > and service providers, between providers of different services etc. > via > > > the e-commerce site > > > Adding support for applying capability/requirement model, such as > > > JSR-124, (for example for matching between customer's requirements > and > > > capabilities of software, devices and services). The customer or > software > > > agent on behalf of the customer could provide his requirements as part > of > > > his account information, and the e-commerce solution would match > between > > > the products (according to their capabilities) and the requirements of > the > > > customers. > > > Has OfBiz a recommendation engine (providing recommendations to a user > > > > based on his activity - searches, purchases, reviews etc.) ? If no, > how > > > hard would it be to add it ? > > > Can the OfBiz-based e-commerce web site be presented by browsers of > smart > > > phones ? How hard would it be to enable it ? > > > Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the > requirements > > > of the customer > > > Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the > geolocation of > > > the customer > > > Adding support for customization of products/services and changes in > the > > > prices according to the customization during the purchase process > > > Adding support for a composition solution of hardware, software and > human > > > services (bundles, kits). A seller could compose a new product by > > > combining several existing products > > > Adding support for manual approval of products by site administrators > > > before submission of the products to the e-commerce site > > > Adding support for managing versions of the software applications that > are > > > sold on the e-commerce website > > > > > > Sorry for so many questions and sorry if some of them are out of > context. > > > > > > Best Regards, > > > Vadim > > > ------------------------------- > > > Vadim Eisenberg > > > IT for Healthcare & Life Sciences > > > IBM Research - Haifa > > > > > > > > |
In reply to this post by BJ Freeman
Hi BJ,
It is an interesting idea ! You actually propose to use OfBiz as the core platform for the AAL, and not only as an e-commerce solution. We will consider it as an option. However, I would say that it seems that it could be an overkill to use an ERP solution as a general platform for applications and devices. This option could be too heavy, in terms of unneeded code/unneeded business features/high learning curve etc.. The idea is definitely interesting, though. Best Regards, Vadim ------------------------------- Vadim Eisenberg IT for Healthcare & Life Sciences IBM Research - Haifa BJ Freeman <[hidden email]> wrote on 04/09/2010 04:37:21 PM: > From: > > BJ Freeman <[hidden email]> > > To: > > [hidden email] > > Date: > > 04/09/2010 04:38 PM > > Subject: > > Re: OfBiz e-commerce customization > > one of the concepts that is hard for most web developers is ofbiz > Ecommerce is like a third Tier Application. > Ecommerce depends on all the other Back-end applications and the > So you don't design a page then add the data in the db to support it. > Also you will find the Ecommerce in the Second Volume starting about > page 393. > You can also look at the data model for Health care in Vol II. > There is a section about Health Care Delivery. mind you this is only > data modeling and the actual business logic and UI has to be developed. > > My back ground is hardware automation as well as embedded applications. > in the 70's I designed a home that was automated, it used compressed air > and cylinders for activation of doors and ramps. At that time proximity > sensors were all that was available. > > I say this because of your focus. > Being nearly 70 I have worked towards a computer companion, as such, > using AI. its purpose was to be my guide when I got too forgetful. > > so here is something you may not have considered. Ofbiz as the Home > automation with in the home. > Ofbiz has a sync capability used in the POS that could be used to sync > the ofbiz running in the home with the main website. > This way each person would have their own personalize themes for their > this would be an embedded Linux server with touch screen. it is all > enclosed. > you would use the network that automatically connects to other network > nodes and builds an Intranet in the home. this allows for other systems > to interact with ofbiz. > > The Framework of ofbiz has the ability to run schedule services. the > scripts for the services can be modified without re-compiling or > restarting ofbiz, though the actual service defs do require a restart if > changed or added. this is being worked on so the home system can be > updated on the fly. > > There is also a Setup component that can be added to for new components. > > needless to say I very sold on ofbiz and what it can do. > it does though, as David said have places that need to fleshed out. > > ========================= > > BJ Freeman > Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation <http:// > www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52> > Specialtymarket.com <http://www.specialtymarket.com/> > Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist > > Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man > > Vadim Eisenberg sent the following on 9/4/2010 1:02 AM: > > > Hi David, > > > > Thank you for your answer and explanations. I failed with the > > for the second time, so I will try to write in plain text from now on. > > > > You wrote: "when asking questions here please keep in mind that responses > > you get are volunteer responses and the only qualification you can be sure > > of for those responding > > is that they are capable of subscribing to the mailing list. If many > > people respond with something > > consistent then it is a safer bet that you can rely on the information, > > but usually not otherwise." > > > > I guess this is how Open Source works :) ? by volunteers contributing code > > to the product and answering questions in the mailing lists. I still would > > like to hear as much opinions as possible from the developers "in the > > trenches", so anybody is welcome to provide them. I would like to thank BJ > > again for providing his opinions. > > > > Please note that the project I participate in, is a kind of Research and > > Development project, sponsored by EU and implemented by a consortium of > > academic and industrial partners. The project is planned for four years > > (ending in January 2014). One of its goals is to create an open source > > implementation of an e-commerce solution - uStore, suited for the field of > > AAL - Ambient Assisted Living (that is a kind of "smart home" for senior > > citizens). The main concept of uStore is similar to the concept of > > AppStore of Apple ? the AAL application developers would be able to upload > > and sell their applications from the store. In addition to that, AAL > > related devices and human services would be sold. An additional important > > feature is to integrate "social commerce" ? user reviews, blogs, forums > > etc. > > > > Please note that developing uStore is Research and Development and there > > are not yet concrete AAL businesses that would immediately use it. The > > goal is to provide some reference open source implementation in four > > years. This implementation would be later supported and extended by an > > open-source community according to the business needs of AAL businesses, > > once some real AAL businesses would use it. One of the goals is to reuse > > the existing open-source OOTB solutions in any field as much as possible > > in order to save resources as much as possible. > > > > As a result of the situation, the accent here is more on e-commerce > > features of existing e-commerce solutions, especially related to the > > e-commerce frontend, than on their ERP features. We would like to use the > > simplest and the most straightforward standard business model (preferably > > OOTB) for e-commerce and invest more resources into the frontend features. > > By the frontend features I mean the website, its accessibility, including > > presentation on smart phones, search, recommendations, user reviews, blogs > > and forums etc. As I understand the strength of OfBiz is actually its rich > > ERP data model, however here we probably do not need the advanced ERP > > features of OfBiz. > > > > I have read your HEMP Light document ? it was interesting and provided > > some insights for me. Currently we are in process of finalizing the use > > cases/requirements of the uStore and evaluating existing e-commerce > > solutions, with OfBiz being one of the main candidates. > > > > Thanks& Regards, > > Vadim > > > > ------------------------------- > > Vadim Eisenberg > > IT for Healthcare& Life Sciences > > IBM Research - Haifa > > > > > > David E Jones<[hidden email]> wrote on 03/09/2010 10:00:38 PM: > > > >> From: > >> > >> David E Jones<[hidden email]> > >> > >> To: > >> > >> [hidden email] > >> > >> Date: > >> > >> 03/09/2010 10:01 PM > >> > >> Subject: > >> > >> Re: OfBiz e-commerce customization > >> > >> > >> Vadim, > >> > >> About your formatting: this mailing list filters out all HTML > >> because HTML email messages tend to be VERY large and the Apache > >> Software Foundation in general has many thousands of messages going > >> through mailing lists every day. > >> > >> Back to your original question: when asking questions here please > >> keep in mind that responses you get are volunteer responses and the > >> only qualification you can be sure of for those responding is that > >> they are capable of subscribing to the mailing list. If many people > >> respond with something consistent then it is a safer bet that you > >> can rely on the information, but usually not otherwise. With a > >> question as long and involved as yours chances are you'll only get a > >> small number of responses, and chances are your experience will be > >> VERY different from those few who do respond. > >> > >> OFBiz is a large project. A good developer can learn to work > >> effectively with the framework with a couple of weeks of training > >> and a couple of months of hands-on development. However, even a good > >> developer will have a hard time picking up all of the data > >> structures and business logic even after many months of study, and > >> realistically since most people don't or can't do that, it usually > >> takes years of work experience and even then they'll only have > >> knowledge of the parts of the system that have had the opportunity > >> to work with. > >> > >> Understanding the business side is much easier for someone who has a > >> good business background, and by good business background I mean > >> really good experience with how businesses actually operate and what > >> sorts of information businesses actually keep track of when > >> operating. Sometimes people coming out of university business > >> programs will have this, but most of the time they do not. Most > >> people with business degrees will have learned more about laws and > >> how to manipulate people than about the myriad of complexities of > >> managing a warehouse, handling purchasing, or tracking information > >> about products to facility the many touch points with those products > >> throughout the company, and making it easy for customers to find > >> products they want, or how to figure out where customer interest > >> intersects with stuff you want to move. > >> > >> So anyway, keep in mind that your diving into a pretty comprehensive > >> ERP system, but one that is made up of what people have seen fit to > >> contribute for free. An extremely wide variety of data structures > >> and common business processes are represented in the system, though > >> many are not complete, or at least not complete in the way your > >> client will want to use them. > >> > >> The only way to really be sure is to document ALL business > >> activities (usually easiest if organized by process and not by role > >> or by system function), and then do an overlap/gap analysis to see > >> how each business activity would be done in the system, or if there > >> is not something to do it (or it is not adequate for what your users > >> want) then detail what the system needs to do to help manage that > >> activity. Once you've done that, then you'll know what the system > >> can do for you as-is, and what needs to be done to expand and change > >> the system to do what your client needs. Short of that, everything > >> is a guess and guaranteed to be wrong (the only question is by how > >> much and in which direction(s)...). > >> > >> To help with that I recommend this material (this is what I use > > withclients): > >> > >> http://www.dejc.com/home/HEMP.html > >> > >> I'd also recommend looking at some of the generic business process > >> stories that have come from OFBiz-based projects and been refined > >> somewhat over the years (though keep in mind that these stories in > >> some places represent activities that are not managed by OOTB OFBiz, > >> ie these need an overlap/gap analysis document to make them more > > meaningful): > >> > >> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBREQDES/Universal > >> +Business+Process+Library+Index > >> > >> Best of luck, > >> -David > >> > >> > >> On Sep 3, 2010, at 11:32 AM, Vadim Eisenberg wrote: > >> > >>> Hello BJ and other OfBiz developers, > >>> > >>> I was not subscribed to the mailing list so I did not receive the > > answer > >>> of BJ to my previous message - > >>> <a href="http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/ofbiz-user/201009.mbox/%">http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/ofbiz-user/201009.mbox/% > >> [hidden email]%3E > >>> . Because of that I cannot post a response to it. Secondly, I used a > > wrong > >>> MIME in my previous message, so all the bullets and formatting were > >>> missing. I am reposting the original message below in the right > > > >>> (any additional comments/opinions are welcome). In addition, my > > response > >>> to BJ follows. Sorry for the mess I created. > >>> > >>> Hi BJ, > >>> > >>> Thank you for your prompt response. I think I've got the general idea. > > I > >>> still would like to ask a question about learning OfBiz: > >>> The three volumes of the data model book comprise about 1700 pages > >>> together. Should I use the book as a reference or do I have to read > > all > >>> the three volumes before starting my work on OfBiz ? Which parts of > > the > >>> book are required before I begin my work ? > >>> > >>> Thanks& Regards, > >>> Vadim > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> My original message: > >>> > >> > > > > >>> Hello OfBiz developers, > >>> > >>> My name is Vadim Eisenberg and I work at IBM Research - Haifa, on the > >>> UniversAAL project - http://universaal.org/. It is a consortium > > European > >>> project. Its goal is to create a platform for applications, services > > and > >>> devices for Ambient Assisted Living, that is a kind of "Smart Home" > > for > >>> senior citizens. As part of the platform, we - several software > > developers > >>> - have to develop an e-commerce site - uStore > >>> http://universaal.org/index.php? > >> option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=9&Itemid=21 > >>> . This site would be a one-stop-shop for software, services and > > devices > >>> for Ambient Assisted Living. > >>> > >>> We consider using OfBiz for implementation of uStore. > >>> > >>> I would like to ask you several questions about the features we want > > to > >>> implement. I would be glad to hear any information you can tell me > > about > >>> how hard could it be for us to implement these features. Please note > > that > >>> we have no prior experience with OfBiz. > >>> > >>> Any your thoughts, intuition, experience, advice about > >>> programming are welcome. > >>> > >>> In particular, the following information would help us very much : > >>> How much work should be done by us in order to implement all the > > features > >>> that follow (Person/Months, Person/Years, for skilled OfBiz > >>> developers/general software engineers). Which part would be to use > >>> existing "extension" mechanisms of OfBiz and which part would be > > actually > >>> changing the OfBiz code ? Here your intuition/experience from > >>> projects is welcome, we do not need exact numbers, just a ballpark. > >>> How much time the general software developers have to learn about > > OfBiz > >>> and how skilled in OfBiz they should become in order to implement > > these > >>> features > >>> > >>> E-commerce website features: > >>> Using e-commerce site for selling software (such as AppStore of > > iPhone) > >>> and downloadable files in general (video, presentations of courses > > etc.). > >>> Here the issue is to manage links where the bought files could be > >>> downloaded. The idea is to prevent a situation in which buyers would > > buy a > >>> software application, receive a link to it for downloading and share > > the > >>> link afterwards with anybody they want, so anybody would be able to > >>> download the application without paying for it. > >>> Using e-commerce site for selling services (human services and > >>> Extending e-commerce site with general widgets, such as calendar, > > clock, > >>> map, a widget for downloading files, etc., and integrating the widgets > > > >>> with the OfBiz > >>> > >>> Integration with other websites/services: > >>> Integrating an e-commerce website with another (non-OfBiz backed) site > > - > >>> adding possibility for sellers to add products to the e-commerce site > > via > >>> the other site, to see customer feedback provided on the e-commerce > > site > >>> via the other site > >>> Integrating an e-commerce website with another (possibly non-OfBiz) > >>> e-commerce website, such as eBay/Amazon. What are the current > >>> possibilities of integration with eBay ? > >>> Integrating an e-commerce website with post/delivery services/sites > >>> > >>> Adding advanced features: > >>> Adding support for signing business contracts between service > > consumers > >>> and service providers, between providers of different services etc. > > via > >>> the e-commerce site > >>> Adding support for applying capability/requirement model, such as > >>> JSR-124, (for example for matching between customer's requirements > > and > >>> capabilities of software, devices and services). The customer or > > software > >>> agent on behalf of the customer could provide his requirements as > > of > >>> his account information, and the e-commerce solution would match > > between > >>> the products (according to their capabilities) and the requirements of > > the > >>> customers. > >>> Has OfBiz a recommendation engine (providing recommendations to a user > > > >>> based on his activity - searches, purchases, reviews etc.) ? If no, > > how > >>> hard would it be to add it ? > >>> Can the OfBiz-based e-commerce web site be presented by browsers of > > smart > >>> phones ? How hard would it be to enable it ? > >>> Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the > > requirements > >>> of the customer > >>> Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the > > geolocation of > >>> the customer > >>> Adding support for customization of products/services and changes in > > the > >>> prices according to the customization during the purchase process > >>> Adding support for a composition solution of hardware, software and > > human > >>> services (bundles, kits). A seller could compose a new product by > >>> combining several existing products > >>> Adding support for manual approval of products by site > >>> before submission of the products to the e-commerce site > >>> Adding support for managing versions of the software applications that > > are > >>> sold on the e-commerce website > >>> > >>> Sorry for so many questions and sorry if some of them are out of > > context. > >>> > >>> Best Regards, > >>> Vadim > >>> ------------------------------- > >>> Vadim Eisenberg > >>> IT for Healthcare& Life Sciences > >>> IBM Research - Haifa > >>> > >>> > >> > > |
In reply to this post by Shi Jinghai
Hi Shi Jinghai,
We considered other open-source e-commerce solutions such as osCommerce http://www.oscommerce.com/, but it is licensed under GPL. We cannot use GPL/LGPL code in our project. So the advantage of OfBiz is its Apache license. We are unaware of other open source e-commerce solutions that are not licensed under GPL/LGPL. Best Regards, Vadim ------------------------------- Vadim Eisenberg IT for Healthcare & Life Sciences IBM Research - Haifa Shi Jinghai <[hidden email]> wrote on 05/09/2010 01:26:44 AM: > From: > > Shi Jinghai <[hidden email]> > > To: > > [hidden email] > > Date: > > 05/09/2010 01:27 AM > > Subject: > > Re: OfBiz e-commerce customization > > It seems your strategy is very clear: you need a set of UI for free and > will sell your middle ware in the future. If so, I guess OFBiz will not > be your choice. > > > 在 2010-09-04六的 11:02 +0300,Vadim Eisenberg写道: > > Hi David, > > > > Thank you for your answer and explanations. I failed with the > > for the second time, so I will try to write in plain text from now on. > > > > You wrote: "when asking questions here please keep in mind that responses > > you get are volunteer responses and the only qualification you can be sure > > of for those responding > > is that they are capable of subscribing to the mailing list. If many > > people respond with something > > consistent then it is a safer bet that you can rely on the information, > > but usually not otherwise." > > > > I guess this is how Open Source works :) ? by volunteers contributing code > > to the product and answering questions in the mailing lists. I still would > > like to hear as much opinions as possible from the developers "in the > > trenches", so anybody is welcome to provide them. I would like to thank BJ > > again for providing his opinions. > > > > Please note that the project I participate in, is a kind of Research and > > Development project, sponsored by EU and implemented by a consortium of > > academic and industrial partners. The project is planned for four years > > (ending in January 2014). One of its goals is to create an open source > > implementation of an e-commerce solution - uStore, suited for the field of > > AAL - Ambient Assisted Living (that is a kind of "smart home" for senior > > citizens). The main concept of uStore is similar to the concept of > > AppStore of Apple ? the AAL application developers would be able to upload > > and sell their applications from the store. In addition to that, AAL > > related devices and human services would be sold. An additional important > > feature is to integrate "social commerce" ? user reviews, blogs, forums > > etc. > > > > Please note that developing uStore is Research and Development and there > > are not yet concrete AAL businesses that would immediately use it. The > > goal is to provide some reference open source implementation in four > > years. This implementation would be later supported and extended by an > > open-source community according to the business needs of AAL businesses, > > once some real AAL businesses would use it. One of the goals is to reuse > > the existing open-source OOTB solutions in any field as much as possible > > in order to save resources as much as possible. > > > > As a result of the situation, the accent here is more on e-commerce > > features of existing e-commerce solutions, especially related to the > > e-commerce frontend, than on their ERP features. We would like to use the > > simplest and the most straightforward standard business model (preferably > > OOTB) for e-commerce and invest more resources into the frontend features. > > By the frontend features I mean the website, its accessibility, including > > presentation on smart phones, search, recommendations, user reviews, blogs > > and forums etc. As I understand the strength of OfBiz is actually its rich > > ERP data model, however here we probably do not need the advanced ERP > > features of OfBiz. > > > > I have read your HEMP Light document ? it was interesting and provided > > some insights for me. Currently we are in process of finalizing the use > > cases/requirements of the uStore and evaluating existing e-commerce > > solutions, with OfBiz being one of the main candidates. > > > > Thanks & Regards, > > Vadim > > > > ------------------------------- > > Vadim Eisenberg > > IT for Healthcare & Life Sciences > > IBM Research - Haifa > > > > > > David E Jones <[hidden email]> wrote on 03/09/2010 10:00:38 PM: > > > > > From: > > > > > > David E Jones <[hidden email]> > > > > > > To: > > > > > > [hidden email] > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > 03/09/2010 10:01 PM > > > > > > Subject: > > > > > > Re: OfBiz e-commerce customization > > > > > > > > > Vadim, > > > > > > About your formatting: this mailing list filters out all HTML > > > because HTML email messages tend to be VERY large and the Apache > > > Software Foundation in general has many thousands of messages going > > > through mailing lists every day. > > > > > > Back to your original question: when asking questions here please > > > keep in mind that responses you get are volunteer responses and the > > > only qualification you can be sure of for those responding is that > > > they are capable of subscribing to the mailing list. If many people > > > respond with something consistent then it is a safer bet that you > > > can rely on the information, but usually not otherwise. With a > > > question as long and involved as yours chances are you'll only get a > > > small number of responses, and chances are your experience will be > > > VERY different from those few who do respond. > > > > > > OFBiz is a large project. A good developer can learn to work > > > effectively with the framework with a couple of weeks of training > > > and a couple of months of hands-on development. However, even a good > > > developer will have a hard time picking up all of the data > > > structures and business logic even after many months of study, and > > > realistically since most people don't or can't do that, it usually > > > takes years of work experience and even then they'll only have > > > knowledge of the parts of the system that have had the opportunity > > > to work with. > > > > > > Understanding the business side is much easier for someone who has a > > > good business background, and by good business background I mean > > > really good experience with how businesses actually operate and what > > > sorts of information businesses actually keep track of when > > > operating. Sometimes people coming out of university business > > > programs will have this, but most of the time they do not. Most > > > people with business degrees will have learned more about laws and > > > how to manipulate people than about the myriad of complexities of > > > managing a warehouse, handling purchasing, or tracking information > > > about products to facility the many touch points with those products > > > throughout the company, and making it easy for customers to find > > > products they want, or how to figure out where customer interest > > > intersects with stuff you want to move. > > > > > > So anyway, keep in mind that your diving into a pretty comprehensive > > > ERP system, but one that is made up of what people have seen fit to > > > contribute for free. An extremely wide variety of data structures > > > and common business processes are represented in the system, though > > > many are not complete, or at least not complete in the way your > > > client will want to use them. > > > > > > The only way to really be sure is to document ALL business > > > activities (usually easiest if organized by process and not by role > > > or by system function), and then do an overlap/gap analysis to see > > > how each business activity would be done in the system, or if there > > > is not something to do it (or it is not adequate for what your users > > > want) then detail what the system needs to do to help manage that > > > activity. Once you've done that, then you'll know what the system > > > can do for you as-is, and what needs to be done to expand and change > > > the system to do what your client needs. Short of that, everything > > > is a guess and guaranteed to be wrong (the only question is by how > > > much and in which direction(s)...). > > > > > > To help with that I recommend this material (this is what I use > > withclients): > > > > > > http://www.dejc.com/home/HEMP.html > > > > > > I'd also recommend looking at some of the generic business process > > > stories that have come from OFBiz-based projects and been refined > > > somewhat over the years (though keep in mind that these stories in > > > some places represent activities that are not managed by OOTB OFBiz, > > > ie these need an overlap/gap analysis document to make them more > > meaningful): > > > > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBREQDES/Universal > > > +Business+Process+Library+Index > > > > > > Best of luck, > > > -David > > > > > > > > > On Sep 3, 2010, at 11:32 AM, Vadim Eisenberg wrote: > > > > > > > Hello BJ and other OfBiz developers, > > > > > > > > I was not subscribed to the mailing list so I did not receive the > > answer > > > > of BJ to my previous message - > > > > <a href="http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/ofbiz-user/201009.mbox/%">http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/ofbiz-user/201009.mbox/% > > > [hidden email]%3E > > > > . Because of that I cannot post a response to it. Secondly, I used > > wrong > > > > MIME in my previous message, so all the bullets and formatting were > > > > missing. I am reposting the original message below in the right format > > > > > > (any additional comments/opinions are welcome). In addition, my > > response > > > > to BJ follows. Sorry for the mess I created. > > > > > > > > Hi BJ, > > > > > > > > Thank you for your prompt response. I think I've got the general idea. > > I > > > > still would like to ask a question about learning OfBiz: > > > > The three volumes of the data model book comprise about 1700 pages > > > > together. Should I use the book as a reference or do I have to read > > all > > > > the three volumes before starting my work on OfBiz ? Which parts of > > the > > > > book are required before I begin my work ? > > > > > > > > Thanks & Regards, > > > > Vadim > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My original message: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello OfBiz developers, > > > > > > > > My name is Vadim Eisenberg and I work at IBM Research - Haifa, on the > > > > UniversAAL project - http://universaal.org/. It is a consortium > > European > > > > project. Its goal is to create a platform for applications, services > > and > > > > devices for Ambient Assisted Living, that is a kind of "Smart Home" > > for > > > > senior citizens. As part of the platform, we - several software > > developers > > > > - have to develop an e-commerce site - uStore > > > > http://universaal.org/index.php? > > > option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=9&Itemid=21 > > > > . This site would be a one-stop-shop for software, services and > > devices > > > > for Ambient Assisted Living. > > > > > > > > We consider using OfBiz for implementation of uStore. > > > > > > > > I would like to ask you several questions about the features we > > to > > > > implement. I would be glad to hear any information you can tell me > > about > > > > how hard could it be for us to implement these features. Please note > > that > > > > we have no prior experience with OfBiz. > > > > > > > > Any your thoughts, intuition, experience, advice about OfBiz/business > > > > programming are welcome. > > > > > > > > In particular, the following information would help us very much : > > > > How much work should be done by us in order to implement all the > > features > > > > that follow (Person/Months, Person/Years, for skilled OfBiz > > > > developers/general software engineers). Which part would be to use > > > > existing "extension" mechanisms of OfBiz and which part would be > > actually > > > > changing the OfBiz code ? Here your intuition/experience from related > > > > projects is welcome, we do not need exact numbers, just a ballpark. > > > > How much time the general software developers have to learn about > > OfBiz > > > > and how skilled in OfBiz they should become in order to implement > > these > > > > features > > > > > > > > E-commerce website features: > > > > Using e-commerce site for selling software (such as AppStore of > > iPhone) > > > > and downloadable files in general (video, presentations of courses > > etc.). > > > > Here the issue is to manage links where the bought files could be > > > > downloaded. The idea is to prevent a situation in which buyers would > > buy a > > > > software application, receive a link to it for downloading and share > > the > > > > link afterwards with anybody they want, so anybody would be able to > > > > download the application without paying for it. > > > > Using e-commerce site for selling services (human services and others) > > > > Extending e-commerce site with general widgets, such as calendar, > > clock, > > > > map, a widget for downloading files, etc., and integrating the widgets > > > > > > with the OfBiz > > > > > > > > Integration with other websites/services: > > > > Integrating an e-commerce website with another (non-OfBiz backed) site > > - > > > > adding possibility for sellers to add products to the e-commerce site > > via > > > > the other site, to see customer feedback provided on the e-commerce > > site > > > > via the other site > > > > Integrating an e-commerce website with another (possibly non-OfBiz) > > > > e-commerce website, such as eBay/Amazon. What are the current > > > > possibilities of integration with eBay ? > > > > Integrating an e-commerce website with post/delivery services/sites > > > > > > > > Adding advanced features: > > > > Adding support for signing business contracts between service > > consumers > > > > and service providers, between providers of different services etc. > > via > > > > the e-commerce site > > > > Adding support for applying capability/requirement model, such as > > > > JSR-124, (for example for matching between customer's requirements > > and > > > > capabilities of software, devices and services). The customer or > > software > > > > agent on behalf of the customer could provide his requirements as part > > of > > > > his account information, and the e-commerce solution would match > > between > > > > the products (according to their capabilities) and the requirements of > > the > > > > customers. > > > > Has OfBiz a recommendation engine (providing recommendations to a user > > > > > > based on his activity - searches, purchases, reviews etc.) ? If no, > > how > > > > hard would it be to add it ? > > > > Can the OfBiz-based e-commerce web site be presented by browsers of > > smart > > > > phones ? How hard would it be to enable it ? > > > > Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the > > requirements > > > > of the customer > > > > Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the > > geolocation of > > > > the customer > > > > Adding support for customization of products/services and changes in > > the > > > > prices according to the customization during the purchase process > > > > Adding support for a composition solution of hardware, software and > > human > > > > services (bundles, kits). A seller could compose a new product by > > > > combining several existing products > > > > Adding support for manual approval of products by site administrators > > > > before submission of the products to the e-commerce site > > > > Adding support for managing versions of the software applications that > > are > > > > sold on the e-commerce website > > > > > > > > Sorry for so many questions and sorry if some of them are out of > > context. > > > > > > > > Best Regards, > > > > Vadim > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > Vadim Eisenberg > > > > IT for Healthcare & Life Sciences > > > > IBM Research - Haifa > > > > > > > > > > > > |
In reply to this post by Vadim Eisenberg
I want to expand the conversation about using Ofbiz not just Ecommerce.
First let start by thinking that everything is a system, living is a system. Everything we do is a bunch of black boxes with input and outputs, with the processes to deal with the input and create the output. To address ERP, we all in our lives, implement resource planning, some better than others. An example is meal planning. Though most do this second nature from a lot of experience, it can also be model in software. So how does resource-planning work in the home? From the Power used to do things like cooking, heating, to house repair is all resource planning. The “E” part simply defines the max scope of the software to handle such activities. Most of your specs for a “requirements Engine” is resources planning. The end Goal is do we have the necessary resources to do something. One of those resources is Cash. For seniors this is paramount if they are on a fixed income. Resource planning and creating a budget is something Ofbiz can do with some added customization or expanding the current system. Have you thought to use Ofbiz to develop the requirements of you AAL project? Use the Project manager will give you feel for what I mean. So lets talk about Ofbiz. You have a framework that already does a lot, you specify a entity and its relationship then with just a few commands you have that available for the Screenlet. Layered on top of the framework is the Application that are generic to most of living but is primarily focused on business. Then you have the specific layer like Ecommerce and manufacturing. Now don’t discount manufacturing since that is what you do in the kitchen as recipes. I am serious when I say David is Architect a comprehensive system that can used in every aspect of our lives. So I would suggest: 1)Download Ofbiz and run it in Localhost mode as a desktop to use the project manager and get feel for what it does. 2)Put it on a server so others in you group can do projects and tasks. ========================= BJ Freeman <http://bjfreeman.elance.com> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52> Specialtymarket.com <http://www.specialtymarket.com/> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man Vadim Eisenberg sent the following on 9/5/2010 12:01 AM: > Hi BJ, > > It is an interesting idea ! You actually propose to use OfBiz as the core > platform for the AAL, and not only as an e-commerce solution. We will > consider it as an option. However, I would say that it seems that it could > be an overkill to use an ERP solution as a general platform for > applications and devices. This option could be too heavy, in terms of > unneeded code/unneeded business features/high learning curve etc.. The > idea is definitely interesting, though. > > Best Regards, > Vadim > ------------------------------- > Vadim Eisenberg > IT for Healthcare& Life Sciences > IBM Research - Haifa > > > BJ Freeman<[hidden email]> wrote on 04/09/2010 04:37:21 PM: > >> From: >> >> BJ Freeman<[hidden email]> >> >> To: >> >> [hidden email] >> >> Date: >> >> 04/09/2010 04:38 PM >> >> Subject: >> >> Re: OfBiz e-commerce customization >> >> one of the concepts that is hard for most web developers is ofbiz >> Ecommerce is like a third Tier Application. >> Ecommerce depends on all the other Back-end applications and the > framework. >> So you don't design a page then add the data in the db to support it. >> Also you will find the Ecommerce in the Second Volume starting about >> page 393. >> You can also look at the data model for Health care in Vol II. >> There is a section about Health Care Delivery. mind you this is only >> data modeling and the actual business logic and UI has to be developed. >> >> My back ground is hardware automation as well as embedded applications. >> in the 70's I designed a home that was automated, it used compressed air > >> and cylinders for activation of doors and ramps. At that time proximity >> sensors were all that was available. >> >> I say this because of your focus. >> Being nearly 70 I have worked towards a computer companion, as such, >> using AI. its purpose was to be my guide when I got too forgetful. >> >> so here is something you may not have considered. Ofbiz as the Home >> automation with in the home. >> Ofbiz has a sync capability used in the POS that could be used to sync >> the ofbiz running in the home with the main website. >> This way each person would have their own personalize themes for their > home. >> this would be an embedded Linux server with touch screen. it is all >> enclosed. >> you would use the network that automatically connects to other network >> nodes and builds an Intranet in the home. this allows for other systems >> to interact with ofbiz. >> >> The Framework of ofbiz has the ability to run schedule services. the >> scripts for the services can be modified without re-compiling or >> restarting ofbiz, though the actual service defs do require a restart if > >> changed or added. this is being worked on so the home system can be >> updated on the fly. >> >> There is also a Setup component that can be added to for new components. >> >> needless to say I very sold on ofbiz and what it can do. >> it does though, as David said have places that need to fleshed out. >> >> ========================= >> >> BJ Freeman >> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation<http:// >> www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52> >> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/> >> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist >> >> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man >> >> Vadim Eisenberg sent the following on 9/4/2010 1:02 AM: >> >>> Hi David, >>> >>> Thank you for your answer and explanations. I failed with the > formatting >>> for the second time, so I will try to write in plain text from now on. >>> >>> You wrote: "when asking questions here please keep in mind that > responses >>> you get are volunteer responses and the only qualification you can be > sure >>> of for those responding >>> is that they are capable of subscribing to the mailing list. If many >>> people respond with something >>> consistent then it is a safer bet that you can rely on the > information, >>> but usually not otherwise." >>> >>> I guess this is how Open Source works :) ? by volunteers contributing > code >>> to the product and answering questions in the mailing lists. I still > would >>> like to hear as much opinions as possible from the developers "in the >>> trenches", so anybody is welcome to provide them. I would like to > thank BJ >>> again for providing his opinions. >>> >>> Please note that the project I participate in, is a kind of Research > and >>> Development project, sponsored by EU and implemented by a consortium > of >>> academic and industrial partners. The project is planned for four > years >>> (ending in January 2014). One of its goals is to create an open source >>> implementation of an e-commerce solution - uStore, suited for the > field of >>> AAL - Ambient Assisted Living (that is a kind of "smart home" for > senior >>> citizens). The main concept of uStore is similar to the concept of >>> AppStore of Apple ? the AAL application developers would be able to > upload >>> and sell their applications from the store. In addition to that, AAL >>> related devices and human services would be sold. An additional > important >>> feature is to integrate "social commerce" ? user reviews, blogs, > forums >>> etc. >>> >>> Please note that developing uStore is Research and Development and > there >>> are not yet concrete AAL businesses that would immediately use it. The >>> goal is to provide some reference open source implementation in four >>> years. This implementation would be later supported and extended by an >>> open-source community according to the business needs of AAL > businesses, >>> once some real AAL businesses would use it. One of the goals is to > reuse >>> the existing open-source OOTB solutions in any field as much as > possible >>> in order to save resources as much as possible. >>> >>> As a result of the situation, the accent here is more on e-commerce >>> features of existing e-commerce solutions, especially related to the >>> e-commerce frontend, than on their ERP features. We would like to use > the >>> simplest and the most straightforward standard business model > (preferably >>> OOTB) for e-commerce and invest more resources into the frontend > features. >>> By the frontend features I mean the website, its accessibility, > including >>> presentation on smart phones, search, recommendations, user reviews, > blogs >>> and forums etc. As I understand the strength of OfBiz is actually its > rich >>> ERP data model, however here we probably do not need the advanced ERP >>> features of OfBiz. >>> >>> I have read your HEMP Light document ? it was interesting and provided >>> some insights for me. Currently we are in process of finalizing the > use >>> cases/requirements of the uStore and evaluating existing e-commerce >>> solutions, with OfBiz being one of the main candidates. >>> >>> Thanks& Regards, >>> Vadim >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> Vadim Eisenberg >>> IT for Healthcare& Life Sciences >>> IBM Research - Haifa >>> >>> >>> David E Jones<[hidden email]> wrote on 03/09/2010 10:00:38 PM: >>> >>>> From: >>>> >>>> David E Jones<[hidden email]> >>>> >>>> To: >>>> >>>> [hidden email] >>>> >>>> Date: >>>> >>>> 03/09/2010 10:01 PM >>>> >>>> Subject: >>>> >>>> Re: OfBiz e-commerce customization >>>> >>>> >>>> Vadim, >>>> >>>> About your formatting: this mailing list filters out all HTML >>>> because HTML email messages tend to be VERY large and the Apache >>>> Software Foundation in general has many thousands of messages going >>>> through mailing lists every day. >>>> >>>> Back to your original question: when asking questions here please >>>> keep in mind that responses you get are volunteer responses and the >>>> only qualification you can be sure of for those responding is that >>>> they are capable of subscribing to the mailing list. If many people >>>> respond with something consistent then it is a safer bet that you >>>> can rely on the information, but usually not otherwise. With a >>>> question as long and involved as yours chances are you'll only get a >>>> small number of responses, and chances are your experience will be >>>> VERY different from those few who do respond. >>>> >>>> OFBiz is a large project. A good developer can learn to work >>>> effectively with the framework with a couple of weeks of training >>>> and a couple of months of hands-on development. However, even a good >>>> developer will have a hard time picking up all of the data >>>> structures and business logic even after many months of study, and >>>> realistically since most people don't or can't do that, it usually >>>> takes years of work experience and even then they'll only have >>>> knowledge of the parts of the system that have had the opportunity >>>> to work with. >>>> >>>> Understanding the business side is much easier for someone who has a >>>> good business background, and by good business background I mean >>>> really good experience with how businesses actually operate and what >>>> sorts of information businesses actually keep track of when >>>> operating. Sometimes people coming out of university business >>>> programs will have this, but most of the time they do not. Most >>>> people with business degrees will have learned more about laws and >>>> how to manipulate people than about the myriad of complexities of >>>> managing a warehouse, handling purchasing, or tracking information >>>> about products to facility the many touch points with those products >>>> throughout the company, and making it easy for customers to find >>>> products they want, or how to figure out where customer interest >>>> intersects with stuff you want to move. >>>> >>>> So anyway, keep in mind that your diving into a pretty comprehensive >>>> ERP system, but one that is made up of what people have seen fit to >>>> contribute for free. An extremely wide variety of data structures >>>> and common business processes are represented in the system, though >>>> many are not complete, or at least not complete in the way your >>>> client will want to use them. >>>> >>>> The only way to really be sure is to document ALL business >>>> activities (usually easiest if organized by process and not by role >>>> or by system function), and then do an overlap/gap analysis to see >>>> how each business activity would be done in the system, or if there >>>> is not something to do it (or it is not adequate for what your users >>>> want) then detail what the system needs to do to help manage that >>>> activity. Once you've done that, then you'll know what the system >>>> can do for you as-is, and what needs to be done to expand and change >>>> the system to do what your client needs. Short of that, everything >>>> is a guess and guaranteed to be wrong (the only question is by how >>>> much and in which direction(s)...). >>>> >>>> To help with that I recommend this material (this is what I use >>> withclients): >>>> >>>> http://www.dejc.com/home/HEMP.html >>>> >>>> I'd also recommend looking at some of the generic business process >>>> stories that have come from OFBiz-based projects and been refined >>>> somewhat over the years (though keep in mind that these stories in >>>> some places represent activities that are not managed by OOTB OFBiz, >>>> ie these need an overlap/gap analysis document to make them more >>> meaningful): >>>> >>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBREQDES/Universal >>>> +Business+Process+Library+Index >>>> >>>> Best of luck, >>>> -David >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sep 3, 2010, at 11:32 AM, Vadim Eisenberg wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hello BJ and other OfBiz developers, >>>>> >>>>> I was not subscribed to the mailing list so I did not receive the >>> answer >>>>> of BJ to my previous message - >>>>> <a href="http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/ofbiz-user/201009.mbox/%">http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/ofbiz-user/201009.mbox/% >>>> [hidden email]%3E >>>>> . Because of that I cannot post a response to it. Secondly, I used a >>> wrong >>>>> MIME in my previous message, so all the bullets and formatting were >>>>> missing. I am reposting the original message below in the right > format >>> >>>>> (any additional comments/opinions are welcome). In addition, my >>> response >>>>> to BJ follows. Sorry for the mess I created. >>>>> >>>>> Hi BJ, >>>>> >>>>> Thank you for your prompt response. I think I've got the general > idea. >>> I >>>>> still would like to ask a question about learning OfBiz: >>>>> The three volumes of the data model book comprise about 1700 pages >>>>> together. Should I use the book as a reference or do I have to read >>> all >>>>> the three volumes before starting my work on OfBiz ? Which parts of >>> the >>>>> book are required before I begin my work ? >>>>> >>>>> Thanks& Regards, >>>>> Vadim >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> My original message: >>>>> >>>> >>> >> > =========================================================================================================== >>>>> Hello OfBiz developers, >>>>> >>>>> My name is Vadim Eisenberg and I work at IBM Research - Haifa, on > the >>>>> UniversAAL project - http://universaal.org/. It is a consortium >>> European >>>>> project. Its goal is to create a platform for applications, services >>> and >>>>> devices for Ambient Assisted Living, that is a kind of "Smart Home" >>> for >>>>> senior citizens. As part of the platform, we - several software >>> developers >>>>> - have to develop an e-commerce site - uStore >>>>> http://universaal.org/index.php? >>>> option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=9&Itemid=21 >>>>> . This site would be a one-stop-shop for software, services and >>> devices >>>>> for Ambient Assisted Living. >>>>> >>>>> We consider using OfBiz for implementation of uStore. >>>>> >>>>> I would like to ask you several questions about the features we want >>> to >>>>> implement. I would be glad to hear any information you can tell me >>> about >>>>> how hard could it be for us to implement these features. Please note >>> that >>>>> we have no prior experience with OfBiz. >>>>> >>>>> Any your thoughts, intuition, experience, advice about > OfBiz/business >>>>> programming are welcome. >>>>> >>>>> In particular, the following information would help us very much : >>>>> How much work should be done by us in order to implement all the >>> features >>>>> that follow (Person/Months, Person/Years, for skilled OfBiz >>>>> developers/general software engineers). Which part would be to use >>>>> existing "extension" mechanisms of OfBiz and which part would be >>> actually >>>>> changing the OfBiz code ? Here your intuition/experience from > related >>>>> projects is welcome, we do not need exact numbers, just a ballpark. >>>>> How much time the general software developers have to learn about >>> OfBiz >>>>> and how skilled in OfBiz they should become in order to implement >>> these >>>>> features >>>>> >>>>> E-commerce website features: >>>>> Using e-commerce site for selling software (such as AppStore of >>> iPhone) >>>>> and downloadable files in general (video, presentations of courses >>> etc.). >>>>> Here the issue is to manage links where the bought files could be >>>>> downloaded. The idea is to prevent a situation in which buyers would >>> buy a >>>>> software application, receive a link to it for downloading and share >>> the >>>>> link afterwards with anybody they want, so anybody would be able to >>>>> download the application without paying for it. >>>>> Using e-commerce site for selling services (human services and > others) >>>>> Extending e-commerce site with general widgets, such as calendar, >>> clock, >>>>> map, a widget for downloading files, etc., and integrating the > widgets >>> >>>>> with the OfBiz >>>>> >>>>> Integration with other websites/services: >>>>> Integrating an e-commerce website with another (non-OfBiz backed) > site >>> - >>>>> adding possibility for sellers to add products to the e-commerce > site >>> via >>>>> the other site, to see customer feedback provided on the e-commerce >>> site >>>>> via the other site >>>>> Integrating an e-commerce website with another (possibly non-OfBiz) >>>>> e-commerce website, such as eBay/Amazon. What are the current >>>>> possibilities of integration with eBay ? >>>>> Integrating an e-commerce website with post/delivery services/sites >>>>> >>>>> Adding advanced features: >>>>> Adding support for signing business contracts between service >>> consumers >>>>> and service providers, between providers of different services etc. >>> via >>>>> the e-commerce site >>>>> Adding support for applying capability/requirement model, such as >>>>> JSR-124, (for example for matching between customer's requirements >>> and >>>>> capabilities of software, devices and services). The customer or >>> software >>>>> agent on behalf of the customer could provide his requirements as > part >>> of >>>>> his account information, and the e-commerce solution would match >>> between >>>>> the products (according to their capabilities) and the requirements > of >>> the >>>>> customers. >>>>> Has OfBiz a recommendation engine (providing recommendations to a > user >>> >>>>> based on his activity - searches, purchases, reviews etc.) ? If no, >>> how >>>>> hard would it be to add it ? >>>>> Can the OfBiz-based e-commerce web site be presented by browsers of >>> smart >>>>> phones ? How hard would it be to enable it ? >>>>> Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the >>> requirements >>>>> of the customer >>>>> Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the >>> geolocation of >>>>> the customer >>>>> Adding support for customization of products/services and changes in >>> the >>>>> prices according to the customization during the purchase process >>>>> Adding support for a composition solution of hardware, software and >>> human >>>>> services (bundles, kits). A seller could compose a new product by >>>>> combining several existing products >>>>> Adding support for manual approval of products by site > administrators >>>>> before submission of the products to the e-commerce site >>>>> Adding support for managing versions of the software applications > that >>> are >>>>> sold on the e-commerce website >>>>> >>>>> Sorry for so many questions and sorry if some of them are out of >>> context. >>>>> >>>>> Best Regards, >>>>> Vadim >>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>> Vadim Eisenberg >>>>> IT for Healthcare& Life Sciences >>>>> IBM Research - Haifa >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> > |
Yes, Vadim, consider also that there is an in-progress work aimed to better
separate the framework from the higher level applications. This will let users like you use the power of the framework with just the part they need of the higher applications. -Bruno 2010/9/5 BJ Freeman <[hidden email]> > I want to expand the conversation about using Ofbiz not just Ecommerce. > First let start by thinking that everything is a system, living is a > system. > Everything we do is a bunch of black boxes with input and outputs, with the > processes to deal with the input and create the output. > To address ERP, we all in our lives, implement resource planning, some > better than others. > An example is meal planning. Though most do this second nature from a lot > of experience, it can also be model in software. > So how does resource-planning work in the home? From the Power used to do > things like cooking, heating, to house repair is all resource planning. > The “E” part simply defines the max scope of the software to handle such > activities. > > Most of your specs for a “requirements Engine” is resources planning. > The end Goal is do we have the necessary resources to do something. > One of those resources is Cash. For seniors this is paramount if they are > on a fixed income. Resource planning and creating a budget is something > Ofbiz can do with some added customization or expanding the current system. > > Have you thought to use Ofbiz to develop the requirements of you AAL > project? > Use the Project manager will give you feel for what I mean. > > So lets talk about Ofbiz. > You have a framework that already does a lot, you specify a entity and its > relationship then with just a few commands you have that available for the > Screenlet. > Layered on top of the framework is the Application that are generic to most > of living but is primarily focused on business. > > Then you have the specific layer like Ecommerce and manufacturing. > Now don’t discount manufacturing since that is what you do in the kitchen > as recipes. > > I am serious when I say David is Architect a comprehensive system that can > used in every aspect of our lives. > > So I would suggest: > 1)Download Ofbiz and run it in Localhost mode as a desktop to use the > project manager and get feel for what it does. > 2)Put it on a server so others in you group can do projects and tasks. > > > ========================= > BJ Freeman <http://bjfreeman.elance.com> > Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation < > http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52> > Specialtymarket.com <http://www.specialtymarket.com/> > Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist > > Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man > > > > Vadim Eisenberg sent the following on 9/5/2010 12:01 AM: > > > Hi BJ, >> >> It is an interesting idea ! You actually propose to use OfBiz as the core >> platform for the AAL, and not only as an e-commerce solution. We will >> consider it as an option. However, I would say that it seems that it could >> be an overkill to use an ERP solution as a general platform for >> applications and devices. This option could be too heavy, in terms of >> unneeded code/unneeded business features/high learning curve etc.. The >> idea is definitely interesting, though. >> >> Best Regards, >> Vadim >> ------------------------------- >> Vadim Eisenberg >> IT for Healthcare& Life Sciences >> IBM Research - Haifa >> >> >> BJ Freeman<[hidden email]> wrote on 04/09/2010 04:37:21 PM: >> >> From: >>> >>> BJ Freeman<[hidden email]> >>> >>> To: >>> >>> [hidden email] >>> >>> Date: >>> >>> 04/09/2010 04:38 PM >>> >>> Subject: >>> >>> Re: OfBiz e-commerce customization >>> >>> one of the concepts that is hard for most web developers is ofbiz >>> Ecommerce is like a third Tier Application. >>> Ecommerce depends on all the other Back-end applications and the >>> >> framework. >> >>> So you don't design a page then add the data in the db to support it. >>> Also you will find the Ecommerce in the Second Volume starting about >>> page 393. >>> You can also look at the data model for Health care in Vol II. >>> There is a section about Health Care Delivery. mind you this is only >>> data modeling and the actual business logic and UI has to be developed. >>> >>> My back ground is hardware automation as well as embedded applications. >>> in the 70's I designed a home that was automated, it used compressed air >>> >> >> and cylinders for activation of doors and ramps. At that time proximity >>> sensors were all that was available. >>> >>> I say this because of your focus. >>> Being nearly 70 I have worked towards a computer companion, as such, >>> using AI. its purpose was to be my guide when I got too forgetful. >>> >>> so here is something you may not have considered. Ofbiz as the Home >>> automation with in the home. >>> Ofbiz has a sync capability used in the POS that could be used to sync >>> the ofbiz running in the home with the main website. >>> This way each person would have their own personalize themes for their >>> >> home. >> >>> this would be an embedded Linux server with touch screen. it is all >>> enclosed. >>> you would use the network that automatically connects to other network >>> nodes and builds an Intranet in the home. this allows for other systems >>> to interact with ofbiz. >>> >>> The Framework of ofbiz has the ability to run schedule services. the >>> scripts for the services can be modified without re-compiling or >>> restarting ofbiz, though the actual service defs do require a restart if >>> >> >> changed or added. this is being worked on so the home system can be >>> updated on the fly. >>> >>> There is also a Setup component that can be added to for new components. >>> >>> needless to say I very sold on ofbiz and what it can do. >>> it does though, as David said have places that need to fleshed out. >>> >>> ========================= >>> >>> BJ Freeman >>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation<http:// >>> www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52> >>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/> >>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist >>> >>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man >>> >>> Vadim Eisenberg sent the following on 9/4/2010 1:02 AM: >>> >>> Hi David, >>>> >>>> Thank you for your answer and explanations. I failed with the >>>> >>> formatting >> >>> for the second time, so I will try to write in plain text from now on. >>>> >>>> You wrote: "when asking questions here please keep in mind that >>>> >>> responses >> >>> you get are volunteer responses and the only qualification you can be >>>> >>> sure >> >>> of for those responding >>>> is that they are capable of subscribing to the mailing list. If many >>>> people respond with something >>>> consistent then it is a safer bet that you can rely on the >>>> >>> information, >> >>> but usually not otherwise." >>>> >>>> I guess this is how Open Source works :) ? by volunteers contributing >>>> >>> code >> >>> to the product and answering questions in the mailing lists. I still >>>> >>> would >> >>> like to hear as much opinions as possible from the developers "in the >>>> trenches", so anybody is welcome to provide them. I would like to >>>> >>> thank BJ >> >>> again for providing his opinions. >>>> >>>> Please note that the project I participate in, is a kind of Research >>>> >>> and >> >>> Development project, sponsored by EU and implemented by a consortium >>>> >>> of >> >>> academic and industrial partners. The project is planned for four >>>> >>> years >> >>> (ending in January 2014). One of its goals is to create an open source >>>> implementation of an e-commerce solution - uStore, suited for the >>>> >>> field of >> >>> AAL - Ambient Assisted Living (that is a kind of "smart home" for >>>> >>> senior >> >>> citizens). The main concept of uStore is similar to the concept of >>>> AppStore of Apple ? the AAL application developers would be able to >>>> >>> upload >> >>> and sell their applications from the store. In addition to that, AAL >>>> related devices and human services would be sold. An additional >>>> >>> important >> >>> feature is to integrate "social commerce" ? user reviews, blogs, >>>> >>> forums >> >>> etc. >>>> >>>> Please note that developing uStore is Research and Development and >>>> >>> there >> >>> are not yet concrete AAL businesses that would immediately use it. The >>>> goal is to provide some reference open source implementation in four >>>> years. This implementation would be later supported and extended by an >>>> open-source community according to the business needs of AAL >>>> >>> businesses, >> >>> once some real AAL businesses would use it. One of the goals is to >>>> >>> reuse >> >>> the existing open-source OOTB solutions in any field as much as >>>> >>> possible >> >>> in order to save resources as much as possible. >>>> >>>> As a result of the situation, the accent here is more on e-commerce >>>> features of existing e-commerce solutions, especially related to the >>>> e-commerce frontend, than on their ERP features. We would like to use >>>> >>> the >> >>> simplest and the most straightforward standard business model >>>> >>> (preferably >> >>> OOTB) for e-commerce and invest more resources into the frontend >>>> >>> features. >> >>> By the frontend features I mean the website, its accessibility, >>>> >>> including >> >>> presentation on smart phones, search, recommendations, user reviews, >>>> >>> blogs >> >>> and forums etc. As I understand the strength of OfBiz is actually its >>>> >>> rich >> >>> ERP data model, however here we probably do not need the advanced ERP >>>> features of OfBiz. >>>> >>>> I have read your HEMP Light document ? it was interesting and provided >>>> some insights for me. Currently we are in process of finalizing the >>>> >>> use >> >>> cases/requirements of the uStore and evaluating existing e-commerce >>>> solutions, with OfBiz being one of the main candidates. >>>> >>>> Thanks& Regards, >>>> Vadim >>>> >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> Vadim Eisenberg >>>> IT for Healthcare& Life Sciences >>>> IBM Research - Haifa >>>> >>>> >>>> David E Jones<[hidden email]> wrote on 03/09/2010 10:00:38 PM: >>>> >>>> From: >>>>> >>>>> David E Jones<[hidden email]> >>>>> >>>>> To: >>>>> >>>>> [hidden email] >>>>> >>>>> Date: >>>>> >>>>> 03/09/2010 10:01 PM >>>>> >>>>> Subject: >>>>> >>>>> Re: OfBiz e-commerce customization >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Vadim, >>>>> >>>>> About your formatting: this mailing list filters out all HTML >>>>> because HTML email messages tend to be VERY large and the Apache >>>>> Software Foundation in general has many thousands of messages going >>>>> through mailing lists every day. >>>>> >>>>> Back to your original question: when asking questions here please >>>>> keep in mind that responses you get are volunteer responses and the >>>>> only qualification you can be sure of for those responding is that >>>>> they are capable of subscribing to the mailing list. If many people >>>>> respond with something consistent then it is a safer bet that you >>>>> can rely on the information, but usually not otherwise. With a >>>>> question as long and involved as yours chances are you'll only get a >>>>> small number of responses, and chances are your experience will be >>>>> VERY different from those few who do respond. >>>>> >>>>> OFBiz is a large project. A good developer can learn to work >>>>> effectively with the framework with a couple of weeks of training >>>>> and a couple of months of hands-on development. However, even a good >>>>> developer will have a hard time picking up all of the data >>>>> structures and business logic even after many months of study, and >>>>> realistically since most people don't or can't do that, it usually >>>>> takes years of work experience and even then they'll only have >>>>> knowledge of the parts of the system that have had the opportunity >>>>> to work with. >>>>> >>>>> Understanding the business side is much easier for someone who has a >>>>> good business background, and by good business background I mean >>>>> really good experience with how businesses actually operate and what >>>>> sorts of information businesses actually keep track of when >>>>> operating. Sometimes people coming out of university business >>>>> programs will have this, but most of the time they do not. Most >>>>> people with business degrees will have learned more about laws and >>>>> how to manipulate people than about the myriad of complexities of >>>>> managing a warehouse, handling purchasing, or tracking information >>>>> about products to facility the many touch points with those products >>>>> throughout the company, and making it easy for customers to find >>>>> products they want, or how to figure out where customer interest >>>>> intersects with stuff you want to move. >>>>> >>>>> So anyway, keep in mind that your diving into a pretty comprehensive >>>>> ERP system, but one that is made up of what people have seen fit to >>>>> contribute for free. An extremely wide variety of data structures >>>>> and common business processes are represented in the system, though >>>>> many are not complete, or at least not complete in the way your >>>>> client will want to use them. >>>>> >>>>> The only way to really be sure is to document ALL business >>>>> activities (usually easiest if organized by process and not by role >>>>> or by system function), and then do an overlap/gap analysis to see >>>>> how each business activity would be done in the system, or if there >>>>> is not something to do it (or it is not adequate for what your users >>>>> want) then detail what the system needs to do to help manage that >>>>> activity. Once you've done that, then you'll know what the system >>>>> can do for you as-is, and what needs to be done to expand and change >>>>> the system to do what your client needs. Short of that, everything >>>>> is a guess and guaranteed to be wrong (the only question is by how >>>>> much and in which direction(s)...). >>>>> >>>>> To help with that I recommend this material (this is what I use >>>>> >>>> withclients): >>>> >>>>> >>>>> http://www.dejc.com/home/HEMP.html >>>>> >>>>> I'd also recommend looking at some of the generic business process >>>>> stories that have come from OFBiz-based projects and been refined >>>>> somewhat over the years (though keep in mind that these stories in >>>>> some places represent activities that are not managed by OOTB OFBiz, >>>>> ie these need an overlap/gap analysis document to make them more >>>>> >>>> meaningful): >>>> >>>>> >>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBREQDES/Universal >>>>> +Business+Process+Library+Index >>>>> >>>>> Best of luck, >>>>> -David >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sep 3, 2010, at 11:32 AM, Vadim Eisenberg wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hello BJ and other OfBiz developers, >>>>>> >>>>>> I was not subscribed to the mailing list so I did not receive the >>>>>> >>>>> answer >>>> >>>>> of BJ to my previous message - >>>>>> <a href="http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/ofbiz-user/201009.mbox/%">http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/ofbiz-user/201009.mbox/% >>>>>> >>>>> [hidden email]%3E >>>>> >>>>>> . Because of that I cannot post a response to it. Secondly, I used a >>>>>> >>>>> wrong >>>> >>>>> MIME in my previous message, so all the bullets and formatting were >>>>>> missing. I am reposting the original message below in the right >>>>>> >>>>> format >> >>> >>>> (any additional comments/opinions are welcome). In addition, my >>>>>> >>>>> response >>>> >>>>> to BJ follows. Sorry for the mess I created. >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi BJ, >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you for your prompt response. I think I've got the general >>>>>> >>>>> idea. >> >>> I >>>> >>>>> still would like to ask a question about learning OfBiz: >>>>>> The three volumes of the data model book comprise about 1700 pages >>>>>> together. Should I use the book as a reference or do I have to read >>>>>> >>>>> all >>>> >>>>> the three volumes before starting my work on OfBiz ? Which parts of >>>>>> >>>>> the >>>> >>>>> book are required before I begin my work ? >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks& Regards, >>>>>> Vadim >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> My original message: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> =========================================================================================================== >> >>> Hello OfBiz developers, >>>>>> >>>>>> My name is Vadim Eisenberg and I work at IBM Research - Haifa, on >>>>>> >>>>> the >> >>> UniversAAL project - http://universaal.org/. It is a consortium >>>>>> >>>>> European >>>> >>>>> project. Its goal is to create a platform for applications, services >>>>>> >>>>> and >>>> >>>>> devices for Ambient Assisted Living, that is a kind of "Smart Home" >>>>>> >>>>> for >>>> >>>>> senior citizens. As part of the platform, we - several software >>>>>> >>>>> developers >>>> >>>>> - have to develop an e-commerce site - uStore >>>>>> http://universaal.org/index.php? >>>>>> >>>>> option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=9&Itemid=21 >>>>> >>>>>> . This site would be a one-stop-shop for software, services and >>>>>> >>>>> devices >>>> >>>>> for Ambient Assisted Living. >>>>>> >>>>>> We consider using OfBiz for implementation of uStore. >>>>>> >>>>>> I would like to ask you several questions about the features we want >>>>>> >>>>> to >>>> >>>>> implement. I would be glad to hear any information you can tell me >>>>>> >>>>> about >>>> >>>>> how hard could it be for us to implement these features. Please note >>>>>> >>>>> that >>>> >>>>> we have no prior experience with OfBiz. >>>>>> >>>>>> Any your thoughts, intuition, experience, advice about >>>>>> >>>>> OfBiz/business >> >>> programming are welcome. >>>>>> >>>>>> In particular, the following information would help us very much : >>>>>> How much work should be done by us in order to implement all the >>>>>> >>>>> features >>>> >>>>> that follow (Person/Months, Person/Years, for skilled OfBiz >>>>>> developers/general software engineers). Which part would be to use >>>>>> existing "extension" mechanisms of OfBiz and which part would be >>>>>> >>>>> actually >>>> >>>>> changing the OfBiz code ? Here your intuition/experience from >>>>>> >>>>> related >> >>> projects is welcome, we do not need exact numbers, just a ballpark. >>>>>> How much time the general software developers have to learn about >>>>>> >>>>> OfBiz >>>> >>>>> and how skilled in OfBiz they should become in order to implement >>>>>> >>>>> these >>>> >>>>> features >>>>>> >>>>>> E-commerce website features: >>>>>> Using e-commerce site for selling software (such as AppStore of >>>>>> >>>>> iPhone) >>>> >>>>> and downloadable files in general (video, presentations of courses >>>>>> >>>>> etc.). >>>> >>>>> Here the issue is to manage links where the bought files could be >>>>>> downloaded. The idea is to prevent a situation in which buyers would >>>>>> >>>>> buy a >>>> >>>>> software application, receive a link to it for downloading and share >>>>>> >>>>> the >>>> >>>>> link afterwards with anybody they want, so anybody would be able to >>>>>> download the application without paying for it. >>>>>> Using e-commerce site for selling services (human services and >>>>>> >>>>> others) >> >>> Extending e-commerce site with general widgets, such as calendar, >>>>>> >>>>> clock, >>>> >>>>> map, a widget for downloading files, etc., and integrating the >>>>>> >>>>> widgets >> >>> >>>> with the OfBiz >>>>>> >>>>>> Integration with other websites/services: >>>>>> Integrating an e-commerce website with another (non-OfBiz backed) >>>>>> >>>>> site >> >>> - >>>> >>>>> adding possibility for sellers to add products to the e-commerce >>>>>> >>>>> site >> >>> via >>>> >>>>> the other site, to see customer feedback provided on the e-commerce >>>>>> >>>>> site >>>> >>>>> via the other site >>>>>> Integrating an e-commerce website with another (possibly non-OfBiz) >>>>>> e-commerce website, such as eBay/Amazon. What are the current >>>>>> possibilities of integration with eBay ? >>>>>> Integrating an e-commerce website with post/delivery services/sites >>>>>> >>>>>> Adding advanced features: >>>>>> Adding support for signing business contracts between service >>>>>> >>>>> consumers >>>> >>>>> and service providers, between providers of different services etc. >>>>>> >>>>> via >>>> >>>>> the e-commerce site >>>>>> Adding support for applying capability/requirement model, such as >>>>>> JSR-124, (for example for matching between customer's requirements >>>>>> >>>>> and >>>> >>>>> capabilities of software, devices and services). The customer or >>>>>> >>>>> software >>>> >>>>> agent on behalf of the customer could provide his requirements as >>>>>> >>>>> part >> >>> of >>>> >>>>> his account information, and the e-commerce solution would match >>>>>> >>>>> between >>>> >>>>> the products (according to their capabilities) and the requirements >>>>>> >>>>> of >> >>> the >>>> >>>>> customers. >>>>>> Has OfBiz a recommendation engine (providing recommendations to a >>>>>> >>>>> user >> >>> >>>> based on his activity - searches, purchases, reviews etc.) ? If no, >>>>>> >>>>> how >>>> >>>>> hard would it be to add it ? >>>>>> Can the OfBiz-based e-commerce web site be presented by browsers of >>>>>> >>>>> smart >>>> >>>>> phones ? How hard would it be to enable it ? >>>>>> Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the >>>>>> >>>>> requirements >>>> >>>>> of the customer >>>>>> Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the >>>>>> >>>>> geolocation of >>>> >>>>> the customer >>>>>> Adding support for customization of products/services and changes in >>>>>> >>>>> the >>>> >>>>> prices according to the customization during the purchase process >>>>>> Adding support for a composition solution of hardware, software and >>>>>> >>>>> human >>>> >>>>> services (bundles, kits). A seller could compose a new product by >>>>>> combining several existing products >>>>>> Adding support for manual approval of products by site >>>>>> >>>>> administrators >> >>> before submission of the products to the e-commerce site >>>>>> Adding support for managing versions of the software applications >>>>>> >>>>> that >> >>> are >>>> >>>>> sold on the e-commerce website >>>>>> >>>>>> Sorry for so many questions and sorry if some of them are out of >>>>>> >>>>> context. >>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Best Regards, >>>>>> Vadim >>>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>>> Vadim Eisenberg >>>>>> IT for Healthcare& Life Sciences >>>>>> IBM Research - Haifa >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >> |
In reply to this post by Vadim Eisenberg
Hi Vadim,
I support BJ completely on his. OFbiz can be the basis of a complete system where you have more than 95% what you need for an AAL. To give you an example, we just implemented a scrum component in the OFBiz system. We just needed to add a few fields, all entities were already there including services and some screens. We just needed to create specific security with related screens and forms. System to big? A simple Ofbiz system runs on a standard laptop with 500Mb memory. Regards, Hans -- Ofbiz on twitter: http://twitter.com/apache_ofbiz Myself on twitter: http://twitter.com/hansbak Antwebsystems.com: Quality services for competitive rates. On Sun, 2010-09-05 at 10:01 +0300, Vadim Eisenberg wrote: > Hi BJ, > > It is an interesting idea ! You actually propose to use OfBiz as the core > platform for the AAL, and not only as an e-commerce solution. We will > consider it as an option. However, I would say that it seems that it could > be an overkill to use an ERP solution as a general platform for > applications and devices. This option could be too heavy, in terms of > unneeded code/unneeded business features/high learning curve etc.. The > idea is definitely interesting, though. > > Best Regards, > Vadim > ------------------------------- > Vadim Eisenberg > IT for Healthcare & Life Sciences > IBM Research - Haifa > > > BJ Freeman <[hidden email]> wrote on 04/09/2010 04:37:21 PM: > > > From: > > > > BJ Freeman <[hidden email]> > > > > To: > > > > [hidden email] > > > > Date: > > > > 04/09/2010 04:38 PM > > > > Subject: > > > > Re: OfBiz e-commerce customization > > > > one of the concepts that is hard for most web developers is ofbiz > > Ecommerce is like a third Tier Application. > > Ecommerce depends on all the other Back-end applications and the > framework. > > So you don't design a page then add the data in the db to support it. > > Also you will find the Ecommerce in the Second Volume starting about > > page 393. > > You can also look at the data model for Health care in Vol II. > > There is a section about Health Care Delivery. mind you this is only > > data modeling and the actual business logic and UI has to be developed. > > > > My back ground is hardware automation as well as embedded applications. > > in the 70's I designed a home that was automated, it used compressed air > > > and cylinders for activation of doors and ramps. At that time proximity > > sensors were all that was available. > > > > I say this because of your focus. > > Being nearly 70 I have worked towards a computer companion, as such, > > using AI. its purpose was to be my guide when I got too forgetful. > > > > so here is something you may not have considered. Ofbiz as the Home > > automation with in the home. > > Ofbiz has a sync capability used in the POS that could be used to sync > > the ofbiz running in the home with the main website. > > This way each person would have their own personalize themes for their > home. > > this would be an embedded Linux server with touch screen. it is all > > enclosed. > > you would use the network that automatically connects to other network > > nodes and builds an Intranet in the home. this allows for other systems > > to interact with ofbiz. > > > > The Framework of ofbiz has the ability to run schedule services. the > > scripts for the services can be modified without re-compiling or > > restarting ofbiz, though the actual service defs do require a restart if > > > changed or added. this is being worked on so the home system can be > > updated on the fly. > > > > There is also a Setup component that can be added to for new components. > > > > needless to say I very sold on ofbiz and what it can do. > > it does though, as David said have places that need to fleshed out. > > > > ========================= > > > > BJ Freeman > > Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation <http:// > > www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52> > > Specialtymarket.com <http://www.specialtymarket.com/> > > Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist > > > > Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man > > > > Vadim Eisenberg sent the following on 9/4/2010 1:02 AM: > > > > > Hi David, > > > > > > Thank you for your answer and explanations. I failed with the > formatting > > > for the second time, so I will try to write in plain text from now on. > > > > > > You wrote: "when asking questions here please keep in mind that > responses > > > you get are volunteer responses and the only qualification you can be > sure > > > of for those responding > > > is that they are capable of subscribing to the mailing list. If many > > > people respond with something > > > consistent then it is a safer bet that you can rely on the > information, > > > but usually not otherwise." > > > > > > I guess this is how Open Source works :) ? by volunteers contributing > code > > > to the product and answering questions in the mailing lists. I still > would > > > like to hear as much opinions as possible from the developers "in the > > > trenches", so anybody is welcome to provide them. I would like to > thank BJ > > > again for providing his opinions. > > > > > > Please note that the project I participate in, is a kind of Research > and > > > Development project, sponsored by EU and implemented by a consortium > of > > > academic and industrial partners. The project is planned for four > years > > > (ending in January 2014). One of its goals is to create an open source > > > implementation of an e-commerce solution - uStore, suited for the > field of > > > AAL - Ambient Assisted Living (that is a kind of "smart home" for > senior > > > citizens). The main concept of uStore is similar to the concept of > > > AppStore of Apple ? the AAL application developers would be able to > upload > > > and sell their applications from the store. In addition to that, AAL > > > related devices and human services would be sold. An additional > important > > > feature is to integrate "social commerce" ? user reviews, blogs, > forums > > > etc. > > > > > > Please note that developing uStore is Research and Development and > there > > > are not yet concrete AAL businesses that would immediately use it. The > > > goal is to provide some reference open source implementation in four > > > years. This implementation would be later supported and extended by an > > > open-source community according to the business needs of AAL > businesses, > > > once some real AAL businesses would use it. One of the goals is to > reuse > > > the existing open-source OOTB solutions in any field as much as > possible > > > in order to save resources as much as possible. > > > > > > As a result of the situation, the accent here is more on e-commerce > > > features of existing e-commerce solutions, especially related to the > > > e-commerce frontend, than on their ERP features. We would like to use > the > > > simplest and the most straightforward standard business model > (preferably > > > OOTB) for e-commerce and invest more resources into the frontend > features. > > > By the frontend features I mean the website, its accessibility, > including > > > presentation on smart phones, search, recommendations, user reviews, > blogs > > > and forums etc. As I understand the strength of OfBiz is actually its > rich > > > ERP data model, however here we probably do not need the advanced ERP > > > features of OfBiz. > > > > > > I have read your HEMP Light document ? it was interesting and provided > > > some insights for me. Currently we are in process of finalizing the > use > > > cases/requirements of the uStore and evaluating existing e-commerce > > > solutions, with OfBiz being one of the main candidates. > > > > > > Thanks& Regards, > > > Vadim > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > Vadim Eisenberg > > > IT for Healthcare& Life Sciences > > > IBM Research - Haifa > > > > > > > > > David E Jones<[hidden email]> wrote on 03/09/2010 10:00:38 PM: > > > > > >> From: > > >> > > >> David E Jones<[hidden email]> > > >> > > >> To: > > >> > > >> [hidden email] > > >> > > >> Date: > > >> > > >> 03/09/2010 10:01 PM > > >> > > >> Subject: > > >> > > >> Re: OfBiz e-commerce customization > > >> > > >> > > >> Vadim, > > >> > > >> About your formatting: this mailing list filters out all HTML > > >> because HTML email messages tend to be VERY large and the Apache > > >> Software Foundation in general has many thousands of messages going > > >> through mailing lists every day. > > >> > > >> Back to your original question: when asking questions here please > > >> keep in mind that responses you get are volunteer responses and the > > >> only qualification you can be sure of for those responding is that > > >> they are capable of subscribing to the mailing list. If many people > > >> respond with something consistent then it is a safer bet that you > > >> can rely on the information, but usually not otherwise. With a > > >> question as long and involved as yours chances are you'll only get a > > >> small number of responses, and chances are your experience will be > > >> VERY different from those few who do respond. > > >> > > >> OFBiz is a large project. A good developer can learn to work > > >> effectively with the framework with a couple of weeks of training > > >> and a couple of months of hands-on development. However, even a good > > >> developer will have a hard time picking up all of the data > > >> structures and business logic even after many months of study, and > > >> realistically since most people don't or can't do that, it usually > > >> takes years of work experience and even then they'll only have > > >> knowledge of the parts of the system that have had the opportunity > > >> to work with. > > >> > > >> Understanding the business side is much easier for someone who has a > > >> good business background, and by good business background I mean > > >> really good experience with how businesses actually operate and what > > >> sorts of information businesses actually keep track of when > > >> operating. Sometimes people coming out of university business > > >> programs will have this, but most of the time they do not. Most > > >> people with business degrees will have learned more about laws and > > >> how to manipulate people than about the myriad of complexities of > > >> managing a warehouse, handling purchasing, or tracking information > > >> about products to facility the many touch points with those products > > >> throughout the company, and making it easy for customers to find > > >> products they want, or how to figure out where customer interest > > >> intersects with stuff you want to move. > > >> > > >> So anyway, keep in mind that your diving into a pretty comprehensive > > >> ERP system, but one that is made up of what people have seen fit to > > >> contribute for free. An extremely wide variety of data structures > > >> and common business processes are represented in the system, though > > >> many are not complete, or at least not complete in the way your > > >> client will want to use them. > > >> > > >> The only way to really be sure is to document ALL business > > >> activities (usually easiest if organized by process and not by role > > >> or by system function), and then do an overlap/gap analysis to see > > >> how each business activity would be done in the system, or if there > > >> is not something to do it (or it is not adequate for what your users > > >> want) then detail what the system needs to do to help manage that > > >> activity. Once you've done that, then you'll know what the system > > >> can do for you as-is, and what needs to be done to expand and change > > >> the system to do what your client needs. Short of that, everything > > >> is a guess and guaranteed to be wrong (the only question is by how > > >> much and in which direction(s)...). > > >> > > >> To help with that I recommend this material (this is what I use > > > withclients): > > >> > > >> http://www.dejc.com/home/HEMP.html > > >> > > >> I'd also recommend looking at some of the generic business process > > >> stories that have come from OFBiz-based projects and been refined > > >> somewhat over the years (though keep in mind that these stories in > > >> some places represent activities that are not managed by OOTB OFBiz, > > >> ie these need an overlap/gap analysis document to make them more > > > meaningful): > > >> > > >> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBREQDES/Universal > > >> +Business+Process+Library+Index > > >> > > >> Best of luck, > > >> -David > > >> > > >> > > >> On Sep 3, 2010, at 11:32 AM, Vadim Eisenberg wrote: > > >> > > >>> Hello BJ and other OfBiz developers, > > >>> > > >>> I was not subscribed to the mailing list so I did not receive the > > > answer > > >>> of BJ to my previous message - > > >>> <a href="http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/ofbiz-user/201009.mbox/%">http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/ofbiz-user/201009.mbox/% > > >> [hidden email]%3E > > >>> . Because of that I cannot post a response to it. Secondly, I used a > > > wrong > > >>> MIME in my previous message, so all the bullets and formatting were > > >>> missing. I am reposting the original message below in the right > format > > > > > >>> (any additional comments/opinions are welcome). In addition, my > > > response > > >>> to BJ follows. Sorry for the mess I created. > > >>> > > >>> Hi BJ, > > >>> > > >>> Thank you for your prompt response. I think I've got the general > idea. > > > I > > >>> still would like to ask a question about learning OfBiz: > > >>> The three volumes of the data model book comprise about 1700 pages > > >>> together. Should I use the book as a reference or do I have to read > > > all > > >>> the three volumes before starting my work on OfBiz ? Which parts of > > > the > > >>> book are required before I begin my work ? > > >>> > > >>> Thanks& Regards, > > >>> Vadim > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> My original message: > > >>> > > >> > > > > > > =========================================================================================================== > > >>> Hello OfBiz developers, > > >>> > > >>> My name is Vadim Eisenberg and I work at IBM Research - Haifa, on > the > > >>> UniversAAL project - http://universaal.org/. It is a consortium > > > European > > >>> project. Its goal is to create a platform for applications, services > > > and > > >>> devices for Ambient Assisted Living, that is a kind of "Smart Home" > > > for > > >>> senior citizens. As part of the platform, we - several software > > > developers > > >>> - have to develop an e-commerce site - uStore > > >>> http://universaal.org/index.php? > > >> option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=9&Itemid=21 > > >>> . This site would be a one-stop-shop for software, services and > > > devices > > >>> for Ambient Assisted Living. > > >>> > > >>> We consider using OfBiz for implementation of uStore. > > >>> > > >>> I would like to ask you several questions about the features we want > > > to > > >>> implement. I would be glad to hear any information you can tell me > > > about > > >>> how hard could it be for us to implement these features. Please note > > > that > > >>> we have no prior experience with OfBiz. > > >>> > > >>> Any your thoughts, intuition, experience, advice about > OfBiz/business > > >>> programming are welcome. > > >>> > > >>> In particular, the following information would help us very much : > > >>> How much work should be done by us in order to implement all the > > > features > > >>> that follow (Person/Months, Person/Years, for skilled OfBiz > > >>> developers/general software engineers). Which part would be to use > > >>> existing "extension" mechanisms of OfBiz and which part would be > > > actually > > >>> changing the OfBiz code ? Here your intuition/experience from > related > > >>> projects is welcome, we do not need exact numbers, just a ballpark. > > >>> How much time the general software developers have to learn about > > > OfBiz > > >>> and how skilled in OfBiz they should become in order to implement > > > these > > >>> features > > >>> > > >>> E-commerce website features: > > >>> Using e-commerce site for selling software (such as AppStore of > > > iPhone) > > >>> and downloadable files in general (video, presentations of courses > > > etc.). > > >>> Here the issue is to manage links where the bought files could be > > >>> downloaded. The idea is to prevent a situation in which buyers would > > > buy a > > >>> software application, receive a link to it for downloading and share > > > the > > >>> link afterwards with anybody they want, so anybody would be able to > > >>> download the application without paying for it. > > >>> Using e-commerce site for selling services (human services and > others) > > >>> Extending e-commerce site with general widgets, such as calendar, > > > clock, > > >>> map, a widget for downloading files, etc., and integrating the > widgets > > > > > >>> with the OfBiz > > >>> > > >>> Integration with other websites/services: > > >>> Integrating an e-commerce website with another (non-OfBiz backed) > site > > > - > > >>> adding possibility for sellers to add products to the e-commerce > site > > > via > > >>> the other site, to see customer feedback provided on the e-commerce > > > site > > >>> via the other site > > >>> Integrating an e-commerce website with another (possibly non-OfBiz) > > >>> e-commerce website, such as eBay/Amazon. What are the current > > >>> possibilities of integration with eBay ? > > >>> Integrating an e-commerce website with post/delivery services/sites > > >>> > > >>> Adding advanced features: > > >>> Adding support for signing business contracts between service > > > consumers > > >>> and service providers, between providers of different services etc. > > > via > > >>> the e-commerce site > > >>> Adding support for applying capability/requirement model, such as > > >>> JSR-124, (for example for matching between customer's requirements > > > and > > >>> capabilities of software, devices and services). The customer or > > > software > > >>> agent on behalf of the customer could provide his requirements as > part > > > of > > >>> his account information, and the e-commerce solution would match > > > between > > >>> the products (according to their capabilities) and the requirements > of > > > the > > >>> customers. > > >>> Has OfBiz a recommendation engine (providing recommendations to a > user > > > > > >>> based on his activity - searches, purchases, reviews etc.) ? If no, > > > how > > >>> hard would it be to add it ? > > >>> Can the OfBiz-based e-commerce web site be presented by browsers of > > > smart > > >>> phones ? How hard would it be to enable it ? > > >>> Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the > > > requirements > > >>> of the customer > > >>> Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the > > > geolocation of > > >>> the customer > > >>> Adding support for customization of products/services and changes in > > > the > > >>> prices according to the customization during the purchase process > > >>> Adding support for a composition solution of hardware, software and > > > human > > >>> services (bundles, kits). A seller could compose a new product by > > >>> combining several existing products > > >>> Adding support for manual approval of products by site > administrators > > >>> before submission of the products to the e-commerce site > > >>> Adding support for managing versions of the software applications > that > > > are > > >>> sold on the e-commerce website > > >>> > > >>> Sorry for so many questions and sorry if some of them are out of > > > context. > > >>> > > >>> Best Regards, > > >>> Vadim > > >>> ------------------------------- > > >>> Vadim Eisenberg > > >>> IT for Healthcare& Life Sciences > > >>> IBM Research - Haifa > > >>> > > >>> > > >> > > > |
In reply to this post by Bruno Busco
Hi Bruno,
Do you mean that the framework could be (in the future) used as a general SOA architecture for running applications, not necessary ERP related ? Best Regards, Vadim ------------------------------- Vadim Eisenberg IT for Healthcare & Life Sciences IBM Research - Haifa From: Bruno Busco <[hidden email]> To: [hidden email] Date: 05/09/2010 03:06 PM Subject: Re: Ofbiz and AAL was OfBiz e-commerce customization Yes, Vadim, consider also that there is an in-progress work aimed to better separate the framework from the higher level applications. This will let users like you use the power of the framework with just the part they need of the higher applications. -Bruno 2010/9/5 BJ Freeman <[hidden email]> > I want to expand the conversation about using Ofbiz not just Ecommerce. > First let start by thinking that everything is a system, living is a > system. > Everything we do is a bunch of black boxes with input and outputs, with the > processes to deal with the input and create the output. > To address ERP, we all in our lives, implement resource planning, some > better than others. > An example is meal planning. Though most do this second nature from a lot > of experience, it can also be model in software. > So how does resource-planning work in the home? From the Power used to do > things like cooking, heating, to house repair is all resource planning. > The “E” part simply defines the max scope of the software to handle such > activities. > > Most of your specs for a “requirements Engine” is resources planning. > The end Goal is do we have the necessary resources to do something. > One of those resources is Cash. For seniors this is paramount if they are > on a fixed income. Resource planning and creating a budget is something > Ofbiz can do with some added customization or expanding the current system. > > Have you thought to use Ofbiz to develop the requirements of you AAL > project? > Use the Project manager will give you feel for what I mean. > > So lets talk about Ofbiz. > You have a framework that already does a lot, you specify a entity and its > relationship then with just a few commands you have that available for the > Screenlet. > Layered on top of the framework is the Application that are generic to most > of living but is primarily focused on business. > > Then you have the specific layer like Ecommerce and manufacturing. > Now don’t discount manufacturing since that is what you do in the kitchen > as recipes. > > I am serious when I say David is Architect a comprehensive system that can > used in every aspect of our lives. > > So I would suggest: > 1)Download Ofbiz and run it in Localhost mode as a desktop to use the > project manager and get feel for what it does. > 2)Put it on a server so others in you group can do projects and tasks. > > > ========================= > BJ Freeman <http://bjfreeman.elance.com> > Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation < > http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52> > Specialtymarket.com <http://www.specialtymarket.com/> > Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist > > Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man > > > > Vadim Eisenberg sent the following on 9/5/2010 12:01 AM: > > > Hi BJ, >> >> It is an interesting idea ! You actually propose to use OfBiz as the >> platform for the AAL, and not only as an e-commerce solution. We will >> consider it as an option. However, I would say that it seems that it could >> be an overkill to use an ERP solution as a general platform for >> applications and devices. This option could be too heavy, in terms of >> unneeded code/unneeded business features/high learning curve etc.. The >> idea is definitely interesting, though. >> >> Best Regards, >> Vadim >> ------------------------------- >> Vadim Eisenberg >> IT for Healthcare& Life Sciences >> IBM Research - Haifa >> >> >> BJ Freeman<[hidden email]> wrote on 04/09/2010 04:37:21 PM: >> >> From: >>> >>> BJ Freeman<[hidden email]> >>> >>> To: >>> >>> [hidden email] >>> >>> Date: >>> >>> 04/09/2010 04:38 PM >>> >>> Subject: >>> >>> Re: OfBiz e-commerce customization >>> >>> one of the concepts that is hard for most web developers is ofbiz >>> Ecommerce is like a third Tier Application. >>> Ecommerce depends on all the other Back-end applications and the >>> >> framework. >> >>> So you don't design a page then add the data in the db to support it. >>> Also you will find the Ecommerce in the Second Volume starting about >>> page 393. >>> You can also look at the data model for Health care in Vol II. >>> There is a section about Health Care Delivery. mind you this is only >>> data modeling and the actual business logic and UI has to be >>> >>> My back ground is hardware automation as well as embedded applications. >>> in the 70's I designed a home that was automated, it used compressed air >>> >> >> and cylinders for activation of doors and ramps. At that time proximity >>> sensors were all that was available. >>> >>> I say this because of your focus. >>> Being nearly 70 I have worked towards a computer companion, as such, >>> using AI. its purpose was to be my guide when I got too forgetful. >>> >>> so here is something you may not have considered. Ofbiz as the Home >>> automation with in the home. >>> Ofbiz has a sync capability used in the POS that could be used to sync >>> the ofbiz running in the home with the main website. >>> This way each person would have their own personalize themes for their >>> >> home. >> >>> this would be an embedded Linux server with touch screen. it is all >>> enclosed. >>> you would use the network that automatically connects to other network >>> nodes and builds an Intranet in the home. this allows for other >>> to interact with ofbiz. >>> >>> The Framework of ofbiz has the ability to run schedule services. the >>> scripts for the services can be modified without re-compiling or >>> restarting ofbiz, though the actual service defs do require a restart if >>> >> >> changed or added. this is being worked on so the home system can be >>> updated on the fly. >>> >>> There is also a Setup component that can be added to for new components. >>> >>> needless to say I very sold on ofbiz and what it can do. >>> it does though, as David said have places that need to fleshed out. >>> >>> ========================= >>> >>> BJ Freeman >>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation<http:// >>> www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52> >>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/> >>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist >>> >>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man >>> >>> Vadim Eisenberg sent the following on 9/4/2010 1:02 AM: >>> >>> Hi David, >>>> >>>> Thank you for your answer and explanations. I failed with the >>>> >>> formatting >> >>> for the second time, so I will try to write in plain text from now on. >>>> >>>> You wrote: "when asking questions here please keep in mind that >>>> >>> responses >> >>> you get are volunteer responses and the only qualification you can be >>>> >>> sure >> >>> of for those responding >>>> is that they are capable of subscribing to the mailing list. If many >>>> people respond with something >>>> consistent then it is a safer bet that you can rely on the >>>> >>> information, >> >>> but usually not otherwise." >>>> >>>> I guess this is how Open Source works :) ? by volunteers contributing >>>> >>> code >> >>> to the product and answering questions in the mailing lists. I still >>>> >>> would >> >>> like to hear as much opinions as possible from the developers "in the >>>> trenches", so anybody is welcome to provide them. I would like to >>>> >>> thank BJ >> >>> again for providing his opinions. >>>> >>>> Please note that the project I participate in, is a kind of Research >>>> >>> and >> >>> Development project, sponsored by EU and implemented by a consortium >>>> >>> of >> >>> academic and industrial partners. The project is planned for four >>>> >>> years >> >>> (ending in January 2014). One of its goals is to create an open source >>>> implementation of an e-commerce solution - uStore, suited for the >>>> >>> field of >> >>> AAL - Ambient Assisted Living (that is a kind of "smart home" for >>>> >>> senior >> >>> citizens). The main concept of uStore is similar to the concept of >>>> AppStore of Apple ? the AAL application developers would be able to >>>> >>> upload >> >>> and sell their applications from the store. In addition to that, AAL >>>> related devices and human services would be sold. An additional >>>> >>> important >> >>> feature is to integrate "social commerce" ? user reviews, blogs, >>>> >>> forums >> >>> etc. >>>> >>>> Please note that developing uStore is Research and Development and >>>> >>> there >> >>> are not yet concrete AAL businesses that would immediately use it. The >>>> goal is to provide some reference open source implementation in four >>>> years. This implementation would be later supported and extended by >>>> open-source community according to the business needs of AAL >>>> >>> businesses, >> >>> once some real AAL businesses would use it. One of the goals is to >>>> >>> reuse >> >>> the existing open-source OOTB solutions in any field as much as >>>> >>> possible >> >>> in order to save resources as much as possible. >>>> >>>> As a result of the situation, the accent here is more on e-commerce >>>> features of existing e-commerce solutions, especially related to the >>>> e-commerce frontend, than on their ERP features. We would like to use >>>> >>> the >> >>> simplest and the most straightforward standard business model >>>> >>> (preferably >> >>> OOTB) for e-commerce and invest more resources into the frontend >>>> >>> features. >> >>> By the frontend features I mean the website, its accessibility, >>>> >>> including >> >>> presentation on smart phones, search, recommendations, user reviews, >>>> >>> blogs >> >>> and forums etc. As I understand the strength of OfBiz is actually its >>>> >>> rich >> >>> ERP data model, however here we probably do not need the advanced ERP >>>> features of OfBiz. >>>> >>>> I have read your HEMP Light document ? it was interesting and >>>> some insights for me. Currently we are in process of finalizing the >>>> >>> use >> >>> cases/requirements of the uStore and evaluating existing e-commerce >>>> solutions, with OfBiz being one of the main candidates. >>>> >>>> Thanks& Regards, >>>> Vadim >>>> >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> Vadim Eisenberg >>>> IT for Healthcare& Life Sciences >>>> IBM Research - Haifa >>>> >>>> >>>> David E Jones<[hidden email]> wrote on 03/09/2010 10:00:38 PM: >>>> >>>> From: >>>>> >>>>> David E Jones<[hidden email]> >>>>> >>>>> To: >>>>> >>>>> [hidden email] >>>>> >>>>> Date: >>>>> >>>>> 03/09/2010 10:01 PM >>>>> >>>>> Subject: >>>>> >>>>> Re: OfBiz e-commerce customization >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Vadim, >>>>> >>>>> About your formatting: this mailing list filters out all HTML >>>>> because HTML email messages tend to be VERY large and the Apache >>>>> Software Foundation in general has many thousands of messages going >>>>> through mailing lists every day. >>>>> >>>>> Back to your original question: when asking questions here please >>>>> keep in mind that responses you get are volunteer responses and the >>>>> only qualification you can be sure of for those responding is that >>>>> they are capable of subscribing to the mailing list. If many people >>>>> respond with something consistent then it is a safer bet that you >>>>> can rely on the information, but usually not otherwise. With a >>>>> question as long and involved as yours chances are you'll only get a >>>>> small number of responses, and chances are your experience will be >>>>> VERY different from those few who do respond. >>>>> >>>>> OFBiz is a large project. A good developer can learn to work >>>>> effectively with the framework with a couple of weeks of training >>>>> and a couple of months of hands-on development. However, even a good >>>>> developer will have a hard time picking up all of the data >>>>> structures and business logic even after many months of study, and >>>>> realistically since most people don't or can't do that, it usually >>>>> takes years of work experience and even then they'll only have >>>>> knowledge of the parts of the system that have had the opportunity >>>>> to work with. >>>>> >>>>> Understanding the business side is much easier for someone who has a >>>>> good business background, and by good business background I mean >>>>> really good experience with how businesses actually operate and what >>>>> sorts of information businesses actually keep track of when >>>>> operating. Sometimes people coming out of university business >>>>> programs will have this, but most of the time they do not. Most >>>>> people with business degrees will have learned more about laws and >>>>> how to manipulate people than about the myriad of complexities of >>>>> managing a warehouse, handling purchasing, or tracking information >>>>> about products to facility the many touch points with those products >>>>> throughout the company, and making it easy for customers to find >>>>> products they want, or how to figure out where customer interest >>>>> intersects with stuff you want to move. >>>>> >>>>> So anyway, keep in mind that your diving into a pretty comprehensive >>>>> ERP system, but one that is made up of what people have seen fit to >>>>> contribute for free. An extremely wide variety of data structures >>>>> and common business processes are represented in the system, though >>>>> many are not complete, or at least not complete in the way your >>>>> client will want to use them. >>>>> >>>>> The only way to really be sure is to document ALL business >>>>> activities (usually easiest if organized by process and not by role >>>>> or by system function), and then do an overlap/gap analysis to see >>>>> how each business activity would be done in the system, or if there >>>>> is not something to do it (or it is not adequate for what your users >>>>> want) then detail what the system needs to do to help manage that >>>>> activity. Once you've done that, then you'll know what the system >>>>> can do for you as-is, and what needs to be done to expand and change >>>>> the system to do what your client needs. Short of that, everything >>>>> is a guess and guaranteed to be wrong (the only question is by how >>>>> much and in which direction(s)...). >>>>> >>>>> To help with that I recommend this material (this is what I use >>>>> >>>> withclients): >>>> >>>>> >>>>> http://www.dejc.com/home/HEMP.html >>>>> >>>>> I'd also recommend looking at some of the generic business process >>>>> stories that have come from OFBiz-based projects and been refined >>>>> somewhat over the years (though keep in mind that these stories in >>>>> some places represent activities that are not managed by OOTB OFBiz, >>>>> ie these need an overlap/gap analysis document to make them more >>>>> >>>> meaningful): >>>> >>>>> >>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBREQDES/Universal >>>>> +Business+Process+Library+Index >>>>> >>>>> Best of luck, >>>>> -David >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sep 3, 2010, at 11:32 AM, Vadim Eisenberg wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hello BJ and other OfBiz developers, >>>>>> >>>>>> I was not subscribed to the mailing list so I did not receive the >>>>>> >>>>> answer >>>> >>>>> of BJ to my previous message - >>>>>> <a href="http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/ofbiz-user/201009.mbox/%">http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/ofbiz-user/201009.mbox/% >>>>>> >>>>> [hidden email]%3E >>>>> >>>>>> . Because of that I cannot post a response to it. Secondly, I used >>>>>> >>>>> wrong >>>> >>>>> MIME in my previous message, so all the bullets and formatting were >>>>>> missing. I am reposting the original message below in the right >>>>>> >>>>> format >> >>> >>>> (any additional comments/opinions are welcome). In addition, my >>>>>> >>>>> response >>>> >>>>> to BJ follows. Sorry for the mess I created. >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi BJ, >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you for your prompt response. I think I've got the general >>>>>> >>>>> idea. >> >>> I >>>> >>>>> still would like to ask a question about learning OfBiz: >>>>>> The three volumes of the data model book comprise about 1700 pages >>>>>> together. Should I use the book as a reference or do I have to read >>>>>> >>>>> all >>>> >>>>> the three volumes before starting my work on OfBiz ? Which parts of >>>>>> >>>>> the >>>> >>>>> book are required before I begin my work ? >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks& Regards, >>>>>> Vadim >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> My original message: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >> >>> Hello OfBiz developers, >>>>>> >>>>>> My name is Vadim Eisenberg and I work at IBM Research - Haifa, on >>>>>> >>>>> the >> >>> UniversAAL project - http://universaal.org/. It is a consortium >>>>>> >>>>> European >>>> >>>>> project. Its goal is to create a platform for applications, services >>>>>> >>>>> and >>>> >>>>> devices for Ambient Assisted Living, that is a kind of "Smart Home" >>>>>> >>>>> for >>>> >>>>> senior citizens. As part of the platform, we - several software >>>>>> >>>>> developers >>>> >>>>> - have to develop an e-commerce site - uStore >>>>>> http://universaal.org/index.php? >>>>>> >>>>> option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=9&Itemid=21 >>>>> >>>>>> . This site would be a one-stop-shop for software, services and >>>>>> >>>>> devices >>>> >>>>> for Ambient Assisted Living. >>>>>> >>>>>> We consider using OfBiz for implementation of uStore. >>>>>> >>>>>> I would like to ask you several questions about the features we >>>>>> >>>>> to >>>> >>>>> implement. I would be glad to hear any information you can tell me >>>>>> >>>>> about >>>> >>>>> how hard could it be for us to implement these features. Please note >>>>>> >>>>> that >>>> >>>>> we have no prior experience with OfBiz. >>>>>> >>>>>> Any your thoughts, intuition, experience, advice about >>>>>> >>>>> OfBiz/business >> >>> programming are welcome. >>>>>> >>>>>> In particular, the following information would help us very much : >>>>>> How much work should be done by us in order to implement all the >>>>>> >>>>> features >>>> >>>>> that follow (Person/Months, Person/Years, for skilled OfBiz >>>>>> developers/general software engineers). Which part would be to use >>>>>> existing "extension" mechanisms of OfBiz and which part would be >>>>>> >>>>> actually >>>> >>>>> changing the OfBiz code ? Here your intuition/experience from >>>>>> >>>>> related >> >>> projects is welcome, we do not need exact numbers, just a ballpark. >>>>>> How much time the general software developers have to learn about >>>>>> >>>>> OfBiz >>>> >>>>> and how skilled in OfBiz they should become in order to implement >>>>>> >>>>> these >>>> >>>>> features >>>>>> >>>>>> E-commerce website features: >>>>>> Using e-commerce site for selling software (such as AppStore of >>>>>> >>>>> iPhone) >>>> >>>>> and downloadable files in general (video, presentations of courses >>>>>> >>>>> etc.). >>>> >>>>> Here the issue is to manage links where the bought files could be >>>>>> downloaded. The idea is to prevent a situation in which buyers >>>>>> >>>>> buy a >>>> >>>>> software application, receive a link to it for downloading and share >>>>>> >>>>> the >>>> >>>>> link afterwards with anybody they want, so anybody would be able to >>>>>> download the application without paying for it. >>>>>> Using e-commerce site for selling services (human services and >>>>>> >>>>> others) >> >>> Extending e-commerce site with general widgets, such as calendar, >>>>>> >>>>> clock, >>>> >>>>> map, a widget for downloading files, etc., and integrating the >>>>>> >>>>> widgets >> >>> >>>> with the OfBiz >>>>>> >>>>>> Integration with other websites/services: >>>>>> Integrating an e-commerce website with another (non-OfBiz backed) >>>>>> >>>>> site >> >>> - >>>> >>>>> adding possibility for sellers to add products to the e-commerce >>>>>> >>>>> site >> >>> via >>>> >>>>> the other site, to see customer feedback provided on the e-commerce >>>>>> >>>>> site >>>> >>>>> via the other site >>>>>> Integrating an e-commerce website with another (possibly non-OfBiz) >>>>>> e-commerce website, such as eBay/Amazon. What are the current >>>>>> possibilities of integration with eBay ? >>>>>> Integrating an e-commerce website with post/delivery services/sites >>>>>> >>>>>> Adding advanced features: >>>>>> Adding support for signing business contracts between service >>>>>> >>>>> consumers >>>> >>>>> and service providers, between providers of different services etc. >>>>>> >>>>> via >>>> >>>>> the e-commerce site >>>>>> Adding support for applying capability/requirement model, such as >>>>>> JSR-124, (for example for matching between customer's >>>>>> >>>>> and >>>> >>>>> capabilities of software, devices and services). The customer or >>>>>> >>>>> software >>>> >>>>> agent on behalf of the customer could provide his requirements as >>>>>> >>>>> part >> >>> of >>>> >>>>> his account information, and the e-commerce solution would match >>>>>> >>>>> between >>>> >>>>> the products (according to their capabilities) and the requirements >>>>>> >>>>> of >> >>> the >>>> >>>>> customers. >>>>>> Has OfBiz a recommendation engine (providing recommendations to a >>>>>> >>>>> user >> >>> >>>> based on his activity - searches, purchases, reviews etc.) ? If no, >>>>>> >>>>> how >>>> >>>>> hard would it be to add it ? >>>>>> Can the OfBiz-based e-commerce web site be presented by browsers of >>>>>> >>>>> smart >>>> >>>>> phones ? How hard would it be to enable it ? >>>>>> Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the >>>>>> >>>>> requirements >>>> >>>>> of the customer >>>>>> Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the >>>>>> >>>>> geolocation of >>>> >>>>> the customer >>>>>> Adding support for customization of products/services and changes >>>>>> >>>>> the >>>> >>>>> prices according to the customization during the purchase process >>>>>> Adding support for a composition solution of hardware, software and >>>>>> >>>>> human >>>> >>>>> services (bundles, kits). A seller could compose a new product by >>>>>> combining several existing products >>>>>> Adding support for manual approval of products by site >>>>>> >>>>> administrators >> >>> before submission of the products to the e-commerce site >>>>>> Adding support for managing versions of the software applications >>>>>> >>>>> that >> >>> are >>>> >>>>> sold on the e-commerce website >>>>>> >>>>>> Sorry for so many questions and sorry if some of them are out of >>>>>> >>>>> context. >>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Best Regards, >>>>>> Vadim >>>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>>> Vadim Eisenberg >>>>>> IT for Healthcare& Life Sciences >>>>>> IBM Research - Haifa >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >> |
Yes, the idea is to distribute the framework with some basic applications
that allows to manage parties and contents. On top of that, specific applications (even not ERP) can be build by the user. The custom application can leverage all the features the framework offers. Right now the specialpurpose directory with all contained applications can easily be removed from an installation so that all related db tables are not created. On the contrary, it is not possible to eliminate all the applications contained in the "Applications" directory because the framework depends on them. We are working to eliminate those dependencies so that only used applications could be installed or even none of them. -Bruno 2010/9/5 Vadim Eisenberg <[hidden email]> > Hi Bruno, > > Do you mean that the framework could be (in the future) used as a general > SOA architecture for running applications, not necessary ERP related ? > > Best Regards, > Vadim > ------------------------------- > Vadim Eisenberg > IT for Healthcare & Life Sciences > IBM Research - Haifa > > > > > From: > Bruno Busco <[hidden email]> > To: > [hidden email] > Date: > 05/09/2010 03:06 PM > Subject: > Re: Ofbiz and AAL was OfBiz e-commerce customization > > > > Yes, Vadim, consider also that there is an in-progress work aimed to > better > separate the framework from the higher level applications. > This will let users like you use the power of the framework with just the > part they need of the higher applications. > -Bruno > > 2010/9/5 BJ Freeman <[hidden email]> > > > I want to expand the conversation about using Ofbiz not just Ecommerce. > > First let start by thinking that everything is a system, living is a > > system. > > Everything we do is a bunch of black boxes with input and outputs, with > the > > processes to deal with the input and create the output. > > To address ERP, we all in our lives, implement resource planning, some > > better than others. > > An example is meal planning. Though most do this second nature from a > lot > > of experience, it can also be model in software. > > So how does resource-planning work in the home? From the Power used to > do > > things like cooking, heating, to house repair is all resource planning. > > The “E” part simply defines the max scope of the software to handle such > > activities. > > > > Most of your specs for a “requirements Engine” is resources planning. > > The end Goal is do we have the necessary resources to do something. > > One of those resources is Cash. For seniors this is paramount if they > are > > on a fixed income. Resource planning and creating a budget is something > > Ofbiz can do with some added customization or expanding the current > system. > > > > Have you thought to use Ofbiz to develop the requirements of you AAL > > project? > > Use the Project manager will give you feel for what I mean. > > > > So lets talk about Ofbiz. > > You have a framework that already does a lot, you specify a entity and > its > > relationship then with just a few commands you have that available for > the > > Screenlet. > > Layered on top of the framework is the Application that are generic to > most > > of living but is primarily focused on business. > > > > Then you have the specific layer like Ecommerce and manufacturing. > > Now don’t discount manufacturing since that is what you do in the > kitchen > > as recipes. > > > > I am serious when I say David is Architect a comprehensive system that > can > > used in every aspect of our lives. > > > > So I would suggest: > > 1)Download Ofbiz and run it in Localhost mode as a desktop to use the > > project manager and get feel for what it does. > > 2)Put it on a server so others in you group can do projects and tasks. > > > > > > ========================= > > BJ Freeman <http://bjfreeman.elance.com> > > Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation < > > http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52> > > Specialtymarket.com <http://www.specialtymarket.com/> > > Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist > > > > Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man > > > > > > > > Vadim Eisenberg sent the following on 9/5/2010 12:01 AM: > > > > > > Hi BJ, > >> > >> It is an interesting idea ! You actually propose to use OfBiz as the > core > >> platform for the AAL, and not only as an e-commerce solution. We will > >> consider it as an option. However, I would say that it seems that it > could > >> be an overkill to use an ERP solution as a general platform for > >> applications and devices. This option could be too heavy, in terms of > >> unneeded code/unneeded business features/high learning curve etc.. The > >> idea is definitely interesting, though. > >> > >> Best Regards, > >> Vadim > >> ------------------------------- > >> Vadim Eisenberg > >> IT for Healthcare& Life Sciences > >> IBM Research - Haifa > >> > >> > >> BJ Freeman<[hidden email]> wrote on 04/09/2010 04:37:21 PM: > >> > >> From: > >>> > >>> BJ Freeman<[hidden email]> > >>> > >>> To: > >>> > >>> [hidden email] > >>> > >>> Date: > >>> > >>> 04/09/2010 04:38 PM > >>> > >>> Subject: > >>> > >>> Re: OfBiz e-commerce customization > >>> > >>> one of the concepts that is hard for most web developers is ofbiz > >>> Ecommerce is like a third Tier Application. > >>> Ecommerce depends on all the other Back-end applications and the > >>> > >> framework. > >> > >>> So you don't design a page then add the data in the db to support it. > >>> Also you will find the Ecommerce in the Second Volume starting about > >>> page 393. > >>> You can also look at the data model for Health care in Vol II. > >>> There is a section about Health Care Delivery. mind you this is only > >>> data modeling and the actual business logic and UI has to be > developed. > >>> > >>> My back ground is hardware automation as well as embedded > applications. > >>> in the 70's I designed a home that was automated, it used compressed > air > >>> > >> > >> and cylinders for activation of doors and ramps. At that time > proximity > >>> sensors were all that was available. > >>> > >>> I say this because of your focus. > >>> Being nearly 70 I have worked towards a computer companion, as such, > >>> using AI. its purpose was to be my guide when I got too forgetful. > >>> > >>> so here is something you may not have considered. Ofbiz as the Home > >>> automation with in the home. > >>> Ofbiz has a sync capability used in the POS that could be used to sync > >>> the ofbiz running in the home with the main website. > >>> This way each person would have their own personalize themes for their > >>> > >> home. > >> > >>> this would be an embedded Linux server with touch screen. it is all > >>> enclosed. > >>> you would use the network that automatically connects to other network > >>> nodes and builds an Intranet in the home. this allows for other > systems > >>> to interact with ofbiz. > >>> > >>> The Framework of ofbiz has the ability to run schedule services. the > >>> scripts for the services can be modified without re-compiling or > >>> restarting ofbiz, though the actual service defs do require a restart > if > >>> > >> > >> changed or added. this is being worked on so the home system can be > >>> updated on the fly. > >>> > >>> There is also a Setup component that can be added to for new > components. > >>> > >>> needless to say I very sold on ofbiz and what it can do. > >>> it does though, as David said have places that need to fleshed out. > >>> > >>> ========================= > >>> > >>> BJ Freeman > >>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation<http:// > >>> www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52> > >>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/> > >>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist > >>> > >>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man > >>> > >>> Vadim Eisenberg sent the following on 9/4/2010 1:02 AM: > >>> > >>> Hi David, > >>>> > >>>> Thank you for your answer and explanations. I failed with the > >>>> > >>> formatting > >> > >>> for the second time, so I will try to write in plain text from now on. > >>>> > >>>> You wrote: "when asking questions here please keep in mind that > >>>> > >>> responses > >> > >>> you get are volunteer responses and the only qualification you can be > >>>> > >>> sure > >> > >>> of for those responding > >>>> is that they are capable of subscribing to the mailing list. If many > >>>> people respond with something > >>>> consistent then it is a safer bet that you can rely on the > >>>> > >>> information, > >> > >>> but usually not otherwise." > >>>> > >>>> I guess this is how Open Source works :) ? by volunteers contributing > >>>> > >>> code > >> > >>> to the product and answering questions in the mailing lists. I still > >>>> > >>> would > >> > >>> like to hear as much opinions as possible from the developers "in the > >>>> trenches", so anybody is welcome to provide them. I would like to > >>>> > >>> thank BJ > >> > >>> again for providing his opinions. > >>>> > >>>> Please note that the project I participate in, is a kind of Research > >>>> > >>> and > >> > >>> Development project, sponsored by EU and implemented by a consortium > >>>> > >>> of > >> > >>> academic and industrial partners. The project is planned for four > >>>> > >>> years > >> > >>> (ending in January 2014). One of its goals is to create an open source > >>>> implementation of an e-commerce solution - uStore, suited for the > >>>> > >>> field of > >> > >>> AAL - Ambient Assisted Living (that is a kind of "smart home" for > >>>> > >>> senior > >> > >>> citizens). The main concept of uStore is similar to the concept of > >>>> AppStore of Apple ? the AAL application developers would be able to > >>>> > >>> upload > >> > >>> and sell their applications from the store. In addition to that, AAL > >>>> related devices and human services would be sold. An additional > >>>> > >>> important > >> > >>> feature is to integrate "social commerce" ? user reviews, blogs, > >>>> > >>> forums > >> > >>> etc. > >>>> > >>>> Please note that developing uStore is Research and Development and > >>>> > >>> there > >> > >>> are not yet concrete AAL businesses that would immediately use it. The > >>>> goal is to provide some reference open source implementation in four > >>>> years. This implementation would be later supported and extended by > an > >>>> open-source community according to the business needs of AAL > >>>> > >>> businesses, > >> > >>> once some real AAL businesses would use it. One of the goals is to > >>>> > >>> reuse > >> > >>> the existing open-source OOTB solutions in any field as much as > >>>> > >>> possible > >> > >>> in order to save resources as much as possible. > >>>> > >>>> As a result of the situation, the accent here is more on e-commerce > >>>> features of existing e-commerce solutions, especially related to the > >>>> e-commerce frontend, than on their ERP features. We would like to use > >>>> > >>> the > >> > >>> simplest and the most straightforward standard business model > >>>> > >>> (preferably > >> > >>> OOTB) for e-commerce and invest more resources into the frontend > >>>> > >>> features. > >> > >>> By the frontend features I mean the website, its accessibility, > >>>> > >>> including > >> > >>> presentation on smart phones, search, recommendations, user reviews, > >>>> > >>> blogs > >> > >>> and forums etc. As I understand the strength of OfBiz is actually its > >>>> > >>> rich > >> > >>> ERP data model, however here we probably do not need the advanced ERP > >>>> features of OfBiz. > >>>> > >>>> I have read your HEMP Light document ? it was interesting and > provided > >>>> some insights for me. Currently we are in process of finalizing the > >>>> > >>> use > >> > >>> cases/requirements of the uStore and evaluating existing e-commerce > >>>> solutions, with OfBiz being one of the main candidates. > >>>> > >>>> Thanks& Regards, > >>>> Vadim > >>>> > >>>> ------------------------------- > >>>> Vadim Eisenberg > >>>> IT for Healthcare& Life Sciences > >>>> IBM Research - Haifa > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> David E Jones<[hidden email]> wrote on 03/09/2010 10:00:38 PM: > >>>> > >>>> From: > >>>>> > >>>>> David E Jones<[hidden email]> > >>>>> > >>>>> To: > >>>>> > >>>>> [hidden email] > >>>>> > >>>>> Date: > >>>>> > >>>>> 03/09/2010 10:01 PM > >>>>> > >>>>> Subject: > >>>>> > >>>>> Re: OfBiz e-commerce customization > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Vadim, > >>>>> > >>>>> About your formatting: this mailing list filters out all HTML > >>>>> because HTML email messages tend to be VERY large and the Apache > >>>>> Software Foundation in general has many thousands of messages going > >>>>> through mailing lists every day. > >>>>> > >>>>> Back to your original question: when asking questions here please > >>>>> keep in mind that responses you get are volunteer responses and the > >>>>> only qualification you can be sure of for those responding is that > >>>>> they are capable of subscribing to the mailing list. If many people > >>>>> respond with something consistent then it is a safer bet that you > >>>>> can rely on the information, but usually not otherwise. With a > >>>>> question as long and involved as yours chances are you'll only get a > >>>>> small number of responses, and chances are your experience will be > >>>>> VERY different from those few who do respond. > >>>>> > >>>>> OFBiz is a large project. A good developer can learn to work > >>>>> effectively with the framework with a couple of weeks of training > >>>>> and a couple of months of hands-on development. However, even a good > >>>>> developer will have a hard time picking up all of the data > >>>>> structures and business logic even after many months of study, and > >>>>> realistically since most people don't or can't do that, it usually > >>>>> takes years of work experience and even then they'll only have > >>>>> knowledge of the parts of the system that have had the opportunity > >>>>> to work with. > >>>>> > >>>>> Understanding the business side is much easier for someone who has a > >>>>> good business background, and by good business background I mean > >>>>> really good experience with how businesses actually operate and what > >>>>> sorts of information businesses actually keep track of when > >>>>> operating. Sometimes people coming out of university business > >>>>> programs will have this, but most of the time they do not. Most > >>>>> people with business degrees will have learned more about laws and > >>>>> how to manipulate people than about the myriad of complexities of > >>>>> managing a warehouse, handling purchasing, or tracking information > >>>>> about products to facility the many touch points with those products > >>>>> throughout the company, and making it easy for customers to find > >>>>> products they want, or how to figure out where customer interest > >>>>> intersects with stuff you want to move. > >>>>> > >>>>> So anyway, keep in mind that your diving into a pretty comprehensive > >>>>> ERP system, but one that is made up of what people have seen fit to > >>>>> contribute for free. An extremely wide variety of data structures > >>>>> and common business processes are represented in the system, though > >>>>> many are not complete, or at least not complete in the way your > >>>>> client will want to use them. > >>>>> > >>>>> The only way to really be sure is to document ALL business > >>>>> activities (usually easiest if organized by process and not by role > >>>>> or by system function), and then do an overlap/gap analysis to see > >>>>> how each business activity would be done in the system, or if there > >>>>> is not something to do it (or it is not adequate for what your users > >>>>> want) then detail what the system needs to do to help manage that > >>>>> activity. Once you've done that, then you'll know what the system > >>>>> can do for you as-is, and what needs to be done to expand and change > >>>>> the system to do what your client needs. Short of that, everything > >>>>> is a guess and guaranteed to be wrong (the only question is by how > >>>>> much and in which direction(s)...). > >>>>> > >>>>> To help with that I recommend this material (this is what I use > >>>>> > >>>> withclients): > >>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> http://www.dejc.com/home/HEMP.html > >>>>> > >>>>> I'd also recommend looking at some of the generic business process > >>>>> stories that have come from OFBiz-based projects and been refined > >>>>> somewhat over the years (though keep in mind that these stories in > >>>>> some places represent activities that are not managed by OOTB OFBiz, > >>>>> ie these need an overlap/gap analysis document to make them more > >>>>> > >>>> meaningful): > >>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBREQDES/Universal > >>>>> +Business+Process+Library+Index > >>>>> > >>>>> Best of luck, > >>>>> -David > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> On Sep 3, 2010, at 11:32 AM, Vadim Eisenberg wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> Hello BJ and other OfBiz developers, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I was not subscribed to the mailing list so I did not receive the > >>>>>> > >>>>> answer > >>>> > >>>>> of BJ to my previous message - > >>>>>> <a href="http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/ofbiz-user/201009.mbox/%">http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/ofbiz-user/201009.mbox/% > >>>>>> > >>>>> [hidden email]%3E > >>>>> > >>>>>> . Because of that I cannot post a response to it. Secondly, I used > a > >>>>>> > >>>>> wrong > >>>> > >>>>> MIME in my previous message, so all the bullets and formatting were > >>>>>> missing. I am reposting the original message below in the right > >>>>>> > >>>>> format > >> > >>> > >>>> (any additional comments/opinions are welcome). In addition, my > >>>>>> > >>>>> response > >>>> > >>>>> to BJ follows. Sorry for the mess I created. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Hi BJ, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Thank you for your prompt response. I think I've got the general > >>>>>> > >>>>> idea. > >> > >>> I > >>>> > >>>>> still would like to ask a question about learning OfBiz: > >>>>>> The three volumes of the data model book comprise about 1700 pages > >>>>>> together. Should I use the book as a reference or do I have to read > >>>>>> > >>>>> all > >>>> > >>>>> the three volumes before starting my work on OfBiz ? Which parts of > >>>>>> > >>>>> the > >>>> > >>>>> book are required before I begin my work ? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Thanks& Regards, > >>>>>> Vadim > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> My original message: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>> > > =========================================================================================================== > >> > >>> Hello OfBiz developers, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> My name is Vadim Eisenberg and I work at IBM Research - Haifa, on > >>>>>> > >>>>> the > >> > >>> UniversAAL project - http://universaal.org/. It is a consortium > >>>>>> > >>>>> European > >>>> > >>>>> project. Its goal is to create a platform for applications, services > >>>>>> > >>>>> and > >>>> > >>>>> devices for Ambient Assisted Living, that is a kind of "Smart Home" > >>>>>> > >>>>> for > >>>> > >>>>> senior citizens. As part of the platform, we - several software > >>>>>> > >>>>> developers > >>>> > >>>>> - have to develop an e-commerce site - uStore > >>>>>> http://universaal.org/index.php? > >>>>>> > >>>>> option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=9&Itemid=21 > >>>>> > >>>>>> . This site would be a one-stop-shop for software, services and > >>>>>> > >>>>> devices > >>>> > >>>>> for Ambient Assisted Living. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> We consider using OfBiz for implementation of uStore. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I would like to ask you several questions about the features we > want > >>>>>> > >>>>> to > >>>> > >>>>> implement. I would be glad to hear any information you can tell me > >>>>>> > >>>>> about > >>>> > >>>>> how hard could it be for us to implement these features. Please note > >>>>>> > >>>>> that > >>>> > >>>>> we have no prior experience with OfBiz. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Any your thoughts, intuition, experience, advice about > >>>>>> > >>>>> OfBiz/business > >> > >>> programming are welcome. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> In particular, the following information would help us very much : > >>>>>> How much work should be done by us in order to implement all the > >>>>>> > >>>>> features > >>>> > >>>>> that follow (Person/Months, Person/Years, for skilled OfBiz > >>>>>> developers/general software engineers). Which part would be to use > >>>>>> existing "extension" mechanisms of OfBiz and which part would be > >>>>>> > >>>>> actually > >>>> > >>>>> changing the OfBiz code ? Here your intuition/experience from > >>>>>> > >>>>> related > >> > >>> projects is welcome, we do not need exact numbers, just a ballpark. > >>>>>> How much time the general software developers have to learn about > >>>>>> > >>>>> OfBiz > >>>> > >>>>> and how skilled in OfBiz they should become in order to implement > >>>>>> > >>>>> these > >>>> > >>>>> features > >>>>>> > >>>>>> E-commerce website features: > >>>>>> Using e-commerce site for selling software (such as AppStore of > >>>>>> > >>>>> iPhone) > >>>> > >>>>> and downloadable files in general (video, presentations of courses > >>>>>> > >>>>> etc.). > >>>> > >>>>> Here the issue is to manage links where the bought files could be > >>>>>> downloaded. The idea is to prevent a situation in which buyers > would > >>>>>> > >>>>> buy a > >>>> > >>>>> software application, receive a link to it for downloading and share > >>>>>> > >>>>> the > >>>> > >>>>> link afterwards with anybody they want, so anybody would be able to > >>>>>> download the application without paying for it. > >>>>>> Using e-commerce site for selling services (human services and > >>>>>> > >>>>> others) > >> > >>> Extending e-commerce site with general widgets, such as calendar, > >>>>>> > >>>>> clock, > >>>> > >>>>> map, a widget for downloading files, etc., and integrating the > >>>>>> > >>>>> widgets > >> > >>> > >>>> with the OfBiz > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Integration with other websites/services: > >>>>>> Integrating an e-commerce website with another (non-OfBiz backed) > >>>>>> > >>>>> site > >> > >>> - > >>>> > >>>>> adding possibility for sellers to add products to the e-commerce > >>>>>> > >>>>> site > >> > >>> via > >>>> > >>>>> the other site, to see customer feedback provided on the e-commerce > >>>>>> > >>>>> site > >>>> > >>>>> via the other site > >>>>>> Integrating an e-commerce website with another (possibly non-OfBiz) > >>>>>> e-commerce website, such as eBay/Amazon. What are the current > >>>>>> possibilities of integration with eBay ? > >>>>>> Integrating an e-commerce website with post/delivery services/sites > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Adding advanced features: > >>>>>> Adding support for signing business contracts between service > >>>>>> > >>>>> consumers > >>>> > >>>>> and service providers, between providers of different services etc. > >>>>>> > >>>>> via > >>>> > >>>>> the e-commerce site > >>>>>> Adding support for applying capability/requirement model, such as > >>>>>> JSR-124, (for example for matching between customer's > requirements > >>>>>> > >>>>> and > >>>> > >>>>> capabilities of software, devices and services). The customer or > >>>>>> > >>>>> software > >>>> > >>>>> agent on behalf of the customer could provide his requirements as > >>>>>> > >>>>> part > >> > >>> of > >>>> > >>>>> his account information, and the e-commerce solution would match > >>>>>> > >>>>> between > >>>> > >>>>> the products (according to their capabilities) and the requirements > >>>>>> > >>>>> of > >> > >>> the > >>>> > >>>>> customers. > >>>>>> Has OfBiz a recommendation engine (providing recommendations to a > >>>>>> > >>>>> user > >> > >>> > >>>> based on his activity - searches, purchases, reviews etc.) ? If no, > >>>>>> > >>>>> how > >>>> > >>>>> hard would it be to add it ? > >>>>>> Can the OfBiz-based e-commerce web site be presented by browsers of > >>>>>> > >>>>> smart > >>>> > >>>>> phones ? How hard would it be to enable it ? > >>>>>> Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the > >>>>>> > >>>>> requirements > >>>> > >>>>> of the customer > >>>>>> Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the > >>>>>> > >>>>> geolocation of > >>>> > >>>>> the customer > >>>>>> Adding support for customization of products/services and changes > in > >>>>>> > >>>>> the > >>>> > >>>>> prices according to the customization during the purchase process > >>>>>> Adding support for a composition solution of hardware, software and > >>>>>> > >>>>> human > >>>> > >>>>> services (bundles, kits). A seller could compose a new product by > >>>>>> combining several existing products > >>>>>> Adding support for manual approval of products by site > >>>>>> > >>>>> administrators > >> > >>> before submission of the products to the e-commerce site > >>>>>> Adding support for managing versions of the software applications > >>>>>> > >>>>> that > >> > >>> are > >>>> > >>>>> sold on the e-commerce website > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Sorry for so many questions and sorry if some of them are out of > >>>>>> > >>>>> context. > >>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> Best Regards, > >>>>>> Vadim > >>>>>> ------------------------------- > >>>>>> Vadim Eisenberg > >>>>>> IT for Healthcare& Life Sciences > >>>>>> IBM Research - Haifa > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >> > > > > |
In reply to this post by Vadim Eisenberg
my target machine is equivalent Netbook circuit boad with a touch screen.
These are 1.6 ghz cpu and 4 gigs of memory. with a 500 gig disk. the OEM of this is about $350. running ofbiz is about the size of Word as far was memory. there are a couple of options for unwanted/unneeded features: 1) you can hide the component if you need then underlying code, by adding/changing one parm. 2) you can comment out the component in one of two files that will reduce the code foot print. I have a linux server that is 4 megs of memory and runs a java mail server and 5 instances of ofbiz, using postgres. The cpu usage is less than 10% on average and does not require the swap file, which is a consideration for speed. During the schedules clean up services, the CPU usage reaches 75%. ========================= BJ Freeman <http://bjfreeman.elance.com> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52> Specialtymarket.com <http://www.specialtymarket.com/> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man Vadim Eisenberg sent the following on 9/5/2010 12:01 AM: > Hi BJ, > > It is an interesting idea ! You actually propose to use OfBiz as the core > platform for the AAL, and not only as an e-commerce solution. We will > consider it as an option. However, I would say that it seems that it could > be an overkill to use an ERP solution as a general platform for > applications and devices. This option could be too heavy, in terms of > unneeded code/unneeded business features/high learning curve etc.. The > idea is definitely interesting, though. > > Best Regards, > Vadim > ------------------------------- > Vadim Eisenberg > IT for Healthcare& Life Sciences > IBM Research - Haifa > > > BJ Freeman<[hidden email]> wrote on 04/09/2010 04:37:21 PM: > >> From: >> >> BJ Freeman<[hidden email]> >> >> To: >> >> [hidden email] >> >> Date: >> >> 04/09/2010 04:38 PM >> >> Subject: >> >> Re: OfBiz e-commerce customization >> >> one of the concepts that is hard for most web developers is ofbiz >> Ecommerce is like a third Tier Application. >> Ecommerce depends on all the other Back-end applications and the > framework. >> So you don't design a page then add the data in the db to support it. >> Also you will find the Ecommerce in the Second Volume starting about >> page 393. >> You can also look at the data model for Health care in Vol II. >> There is a section about Health Care Delivery. mind you this is only >> data modeling and the actual business logic and UI has to be developed. >> >> My back ground is hardware automation as well as embedded applications. >> in the 70's I designed a home that was automated, it used compressed air > >> and cylinders for activation of doors and ramps. At that time proximity >> sensors were all that was available. >> >> I say this because of your focus. >> Being nearly 70 I have worked towards a computer companion, as such, >> using AI. its purpose was to be my guide when I got too forgetful. >> >> so here is something you may not have considered. Ofbiz as the Home >> automation with in the home. >> Ofbiz has a sync capability used in the POS that could be used to sync >> the ofbiz running in the home with the main website. >> This way each person would have their own personalize themes for their > home. >> this would be an embedded Linux server with touch screen. it is all >> enclosed. >> you would use the network that automatically connects to other network >> nodes and builds an Intranet in the home. this allows for other systems >> to interact with ofbiz. >> >> The Framework of ofbiz has the ability to run schedule services. the >> scripts for the services can be modified without re-compiling or >> restarting ofbiz, though the actual service defs do require a restart if > >> changed or added. this is being worked on so the home system can be >> updated on the fly. >> >> There is also a Setup component that can be added to for new components. >> >> needless to say I very sold on ofbiz and what it can do. >> it does though, as David said have places that need to fleshed out. >> >> ========================= >> >> BJ Freeman >> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation<http:// >> www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52> >> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/> >> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist >> >> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man >> >> Vadim Eisenberg sent the following on 9/4/2010 1:02 AM: >> >>> Hi David, >>> >>> Thank you for your answer and explanations. I failed with the > formatting >>> for the second time, so I will try to write in plain text from now on. >>> >>> You wrote: "when asking questions here please keep in mind that > responses >>> you get are volunteer responses and the only qualification you can be > sure >>> of for those responding >>> is that they are capable of subscribing to the mailing list. If many >>> people respond with something >>> consistent then it is a safer bet that you can rely on the > information, >>> but usually not otherwise." >>> >>> I guess this is how Open Source works :) ? by volunteers contributing > code >>> to the product and answering questions in the mailing lists. I still > would >>> like to hear as much opinions as possible from the developers "in the >>> trenches", so anybody is welcome to provide them. I would like to > thank BJ >>> again for providing his opinions. >>> >>> Please note that the project I participate in, is a kind of Research > and >>> Development project, sponsored by EU and implemented by a consortium > of >>> academic and industrial partners. The project is planned for four > years >>> (ending in January 2014). One of its goals is to create an open source >>> implementation of an e-commerce solution - uStore, suited for the > field of >>> AAL - Ambient Assisted Living (that is a kind of "smart home" for > senior >>> citizens). The main concept of uStore is similar to the concept of >>> AppStore of Apple ? the AAL application developers would be able to > upload >>> and sell their applications from the store. In addition to that, AAL >>> related devices and human services would be sold. An additional > important >>> feature is to integrate "social commerce" ? user reviews, blogs, > forums >>> etc. >>> >>> Please note that developing uStore is Research and Development and > there >>> are not yet concrete AAL businesses that would immediately use it. The >>> goal is to provide some reference open source implementation in four >>> years. This implementation would be later supported and extended by an >>> open-source community according to the business needs of AAL > businesses, >>> once some real AAL businesses would use it. One of the goals is to > reuse >>> the existing open-source OOTB solutions in any field as much as > possible >>> in order to save resources as much as possible. >>> >>> As a result of the situation, the accent here is more on e-commerce >>> features of existing e-commerce solutions, especially related to the >>> e-commerce frontend, than on their ERP features. We would like to use > the >>> simplest and the most straightforward standard business model > (preferably >>> OOTB) for e-commerce and invest more resources into the frontend > features. >>> By the frontend features I mean the website, its accessibility, > including >>> presentation on smart phones, search, recommendations, user reviews, > blogs >>> and forums etc. As I understand the strength of OfBiz is actually its > rich >>> ERP data model, however here we probably do not need the advanced ERP >>> features of OfBiz. >>> >>> I have read your HEMP Light document ? it was interesting and provided >>> some insights for me. Currently we are in process of finalizing the > use >>> cases/requirements of the uStore and evaluating existing e-commerce >>> solutions, with OfBiz being one of the main candidates. >>> >>> Thanks& Regards, >>> Vadim >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> Vadim Eisenberg >>> IT for Healthcare& Life Sciences >>> IBM Research - Haifa >>> >>> >>> David E Jones<[hidden email]> wrote on 03/09/2010 10:00:38 PM: >>> >>>> From: >>>> >>>> David E Jones<[hidden email]> >>>> >>>> To: >>>> >>>> [hidden email] >>>> >>>> Date: >>>> >>>> 03/09/2010 10:01 PM >>>> >>>> Subject: >>>> >>>> Re: OfBiz e-commerce customization >>>> >>>> >>>> Vadim, >>>> >>>> About your formatting: this mailing list filters out all HTML >>>> because HTML email messages tend to be VERY large and the Apache >>>> Software Foundation in general has many thousands of messages going >>>> through mailing lists every day. >>>> >>>> Back to your original question: when asking questions here please >>>> keep in mind that responses you get are volunteer responses and the >>>> only qualification you can be sure of for those responding is that >>>> they are capable of subscribing to the mailing list. If many people >>>> respond with something consistent then it is a safer bet that you >>>> can rely on the information, but usually not otherwise. With a >>>> question as long and involved as yours chances are you'll only get a >>>> small number of responses, and chances are your experience will be >>>> VERY different from those few who do respond. >>>> >>>> OFBiz is a large project. A good developer can learn to work >>>> effectively with the framework with a couple of weeks of training >>>> and a couple of months of hands-on development. However, even a good >>>> developer will have a hard time picking up all of the data >>>> structures and business logic even after many months of study, and >>>> realistically since most people don't or can't do that, it usually >>>> takes years of work experience and even then they'll only have >>>> knowledge of the parts of the system that have had the opportunity >>>> to work with. >>>> >>>> Understanding the business side is much easier for someone who has a >>>> good business background, and by good business background I mean >>>> really good experience with how businesses actually operate and what >>>> sorts of information businesses actually keep track of when >>>> operating. Sometimes people coming out of university business >>>> programs will have this, but most of the time they do not. Most >>>> people with business degrees will have learned more about laws and >>>> how to manipulate people than about the myriad of complexities of >>>> managing a warehouse, handling purchasing, or tracking information >>>> about products to facility the many touch points with those products >>>> throughout the company, and making it easy for customers to find >>>> products they want, or how to figure out where customer interest >>>> intersects with stuff you want to move. >>>> >>>> So anyway, keep in mind that your diving into a pretty comprehensive >>>> ERP system, but one that is made up of what people have seen fit to >>>> contribute for free. An extremely wide variety of data structures >>>> and common business processes are represented in the system, though >>>> many are not complete, or at least not complete in the way your >>>> client will want to use them. >>>> >>>> The only way to really be sure is to document ALL business >>>> activities (usually easiest if organized by process and not by role >>>> or by system function), and then do an overlap/gap analysis to see >>>> how each business activity would be done in the system, or if there >>>> is not something to do it (or it is not adequate for what your users >>>> want) then detail what the system needs to do to help manage that >>>> activity. Once you've done that, then you'll know what the system >>>> can do for you as-is, and what needs to be done to expand and change >>>> the system to do what your client needs. Short of that, everything >>>> is a guess and guaranteed to be wrong (the only question is by how >>>> much and in which direction(s)...). >>>> >>>> To help with that I recommend this material (this is what I use >>> withclients): >>>> >>>> http://www.dejc.com/home/HEMP.html >>>> >>>> I'd also recommend looking at some of the generic business process >>>> stories that have come from OFBiz-based projects and been refined >>>> somewhat over the years (though keep in mind that these stories in >>>> some places represent activities that are not managed by OOTB OFBiz, >>>> ie these need an overlap/gap analysis document to make them more >>> meaningful): >>>> >>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBREQDES/Universal >>>> +Business+Process+Library+Index >>>> >>>> Best of luck, >>>> -David >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sep 3, 2010, at 11:32 AM, Vadim Eisenberg wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hello BJ and other OfBiz developers, >>>>> >>>>> I was not subscribed to the mailing list so I did not receive the >>> answer >>>>> of BJ to my previous message - >>>>> <a href="http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/ofbiz-user/201009.mbox/%">http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/ofbiz-user/201009.mbox/% >>>> [hidden email]%3E >>>>> . Because of that I cannot post a response to it. Secondly, I used a >>> wrong >>>>> MIME in my previous message, so all the bullets and formatting were >>>>> missing. I am reposting the original message below in the right > format >>> >>>>> (any additional comments/opinions are welcome). In addition, my >>> response >>>>> to BJ follows. Sorry for the mess I created. >>>>> >>>>> Hi BJ, >>>>> >>>>> Thank you for your prompt response. I think I've got the general > idea. >>> I >>>>> still would like to ask a question about learning OfBiz: >>>>> The three volumes of the data model book comprise about 1700 pages >>>>> together. Should I use the book as a reference or do I have to read >>> all >>>>> the three volumes before starting my work on OfBiz ? Which parts of >>> the >>>>> book are required before I begin my work ? >>>>> >>>>> Thanks& Regards, >>>>> Vadim >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> My original message: >>>>> >>>> >>> >> > =========================================================================================================== >>>>> Hello OfBiz developers, >>>>> >>>>> My name is Vadim Eisenberg and I work at IBM Research - Haifa, on > the >>>>> UniversAAL project - http://universaal.org/. It is a consortium >>> European >>>>> project. Its goal is to create a platform for applications, services >>> and >>>>> devices for Ambient Assisted Living, that is a kind of "Smart Home" >>> for >>>>> senior citizens. As part of the platform, we - several software >>> developers >>>>> - have to develop an e-commerce site - uStore >>>>> http://universaal.org/index.php? >>>> option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=9&Itemid=21 >>>>> . This site would be a one-stop-shop for software, services and >>> devices >>>>> for Ambient Assisted Living. >>>>> >>>>> We consider using OfBiz for implementation of uStore. >>>>> >>>>> I would like to ask you several questions about the features we want >>> to >>>>> implement. I would be glad to hear any information you can tell me >>> about >>>>> how hard could it be for us to implement these features. Please note >>> that >>>>> we have no prior experience with OfBiz. >>>>> >>>>> Any your thoughts, intuition, experience, advice about > OfBiz/business >>>>> programming are welcome. >>>>> >>>>> In particular, the following information would help us very much : >>>>> How much work should be done by us in order to implement all the >>> features >>>>> that follow (Person/Months, Person/Years, for skilled OfBiz >>>>> developers/general software engineers). Which part would be to use >>>>> existing "extension" mechanisms of OfBiz and which part would be >>> actually >>>>> changing the OfBiz code ? Here your intuition/experience from > related >>>>> projects is welcome, we do not need exact numbers, just a ballpark. >>>>> How much time the general software developers have to learn about >>> OfBiz >>>>> and how skilled in OfBiz they should become in order to implement >>> these >>>>> features >>>>> >>>>> E-commerce website features: >>>>> Using e-commerce site for selling software (such as AppStore of >>> iPhone) >>>>> and downloadable files in general (video, presentations of courses >>> etc.). >>>>> Here the issue is to manage links where the bought files could be >>>>> downloaded. The idea is to prevent a situation in which buyers would >>> buy a >>>>> software application, receive a link to it for downloading and share >>> the >>>>> link afterwards with anybody they want, so anybody would be able to >>>>> download the application without paying for it. >>>>> Using e-commerce site for selling services (human services and > others) >>>>> Extending e-commerce site with general widgets, such as calendar, >>> clock, >>>>> map, a widget for downloading files, etc., and integrating the > widgets >>> >>>>> with the OfBiz >>>>> >>>>> Integration with other websites/services: >>>>> Integrating an e-commerce website with another (non-OfBiz backed) > site >>> - >>>>> adding possibility for sellers to add products to the e-commerce > site >>> via >>>>> the other site, to see customer feedback provided on the e-commerce >>> site >>>>> via the other site >>>>> Integrating an e-commerce website with another (possibly non-OfBiz) >>>>> e-commerce website, such as eBay/Amazon. What are the current >>>>> possibilities of integration with eBay ? >>>>> Integrating an e-commerce website with post/delivery services/sites >>>>> >>>>> Adding advanced features: >>>>> Adding support for signing business contracts between service >>> consumers >>>>> and service providers, between providers of different services etc. >>> via >>>>> the e-commerce site >>>>> Adding support for applying capability/requirement model, such as >>>>> JSR-124, (for example for matching between customer's requirements >>> and >>>>> capabilities of software, devices and services). The customer or >>> software >>>>> agent on behalf of the customer could provide his requirements as > part >>> of >>>>> his account information, and the e-commerce solution would match >>> between >>>>> the products (according to their capabilities) and the requirements > of >>> the >>>>> customers. >>>>> Has OfBiz a recommendation engine (providing recommendations to a > user >>> >>>>> based on his activity - searches, purchases, reviews etc.) ? If no, >>> how >>>>> hard would it be to add it ? >>>>> Can the OfBiz-based e-commerce web site be presented by browsers of >>> smart >>>>> phones ? How hard would it be to enable it ? >>>>> Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the >>> requirements >>>>> of the customer >>>>> Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the >>> geolocation of >>>>> the customer >>>>> Adding support for customization of products/services and changes in >>> the >>>>> prices according to the customization during the purchase process >>>>> Adding support for a composition solution of hardware, software and >>> human >>>>> services (bundles, kits). A seller could compose a new product by >>>>> combining several existing products >>>>> Adding support for manual approval of products by site > administrators >>>>> before submission of the products to the e-commerce site >>>>> Adding support for managing versions of the software applications > that >>> are >>>>> sold on the e-commerce website >>>>> >>>>> Sorry for so many questions and sorry if some of them are out of >>> context. >>>>> >>>>> Best Regards, >>>>> Vadim >>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>> Vadim Eisenberg >>>>> IT for Healthcare& Life Sciences >>>>> IBM Research - Haifa >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> > |
I have a linux server that is 4 megs of memory
should be I have a linux server that is 4 gigs of memory ========================= BJ Freeman <http://bjfreeman.elance.com> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52> Specialtymarket.com <http://www.specialtymarket.com/> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man BJ Freeman sent the following on 9/5/2010 9:58 AM: > my target machine is equivalent Netbook circuit boad with a touch screen. > These are 1.6 ghz cpu and 4 gigs of memory. with a 500 gig disk. the OEM > of this is about $350. > running ofbiz is about the size of Word as far was memory. > there are a couple of options for unwanted/unneeded features: > 1) you can hide the component if you need then underlying code, by > adding/changing one parm. > 2) you can comment out the component in one of two files that will > reduce the code foot print. > > I have a linux server that is 4 megs of memory and runs a java mail > server and 5 instances of ofbiz, using postgres. The cpu usage is less > than 10% on average and does not require the swap file, which is a > consideration for speed. During the schedules clean up services, the CPU > usage reaches 75%. > > ========================= > BJ Freeman <http://bjfreeman.elance.com> > Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation > <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52> > Specialtymarket.com <http://www.specialtymarket.com/> > Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist > > Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man > Vadim Eisenberg sent the following on 9/5/2010 12:01 AM: > > >> Hi BJ, >> >> It is an interesting idea ! You actually propose to use OfBiz as the core >> platform for the AAL, and not only as an e-commerce solution. We will >> consider it as an option. However, I would say that it seems that it >> could >> be an overkill to use an ERP solution as a general platform for >> applications and devices. This option could be too heavy, in terms of >> unneeded code/unneeded business features/high learning curve etc.. The >> idea is definitely interesting, though. >> >> Best Regards, >> Vadim >> ------------------------------- >> Vadim Eisenberg >> IT for Healthcare& Life Sciences >> IBM Research - Haifa >> >> >> BJ Freeman<[hidden email]> wrote on 04/09/2010 04:37:21 PM: >> >>> From: >>> >>> BJ Freeman<[hidden email]> >>> >>> To: >>> >>> [hidden email] >>> >>> Date: >>> >>> 04/09/2010 04:38 PM >>> >>> Subject: >>> >>> Re: OfBiz e-commerce customization >>> >>> one of the concepts that is hard for most web developers is ofbiz >>> Ecommerce is like a third Tier Application. >>> Ecommerce depends on all the other Back-end applications and the >> framework. >>> So you don't design a page then add the data in the db to support it. >>> Also you will find the Ecommerce in the Second Volume starting about >>> page 393. >>> You can also look at the data model for Health care in Vol II. >>> There is a section about Health Care Delivery. mind you this is only >>> data modeling and the actual business logic and UI has to be developed. >>> >>> My back ground is hardware automation as well as embedded applications. >>> in the 70's I designed a home that was automated, it used compressed air >> >>> and cylinders for activation of doors and ramps. At that time proximity >>> sensors were all that was available. >>> >>> I say this because of your focus. >>> Being nearly 70 I have worked towards a computer companion, as such, >>> using AI. its purpose was to be my guide when I got too forgetful. >>> >>> so here is something you may not have considered. Ofbiz as the Home >>> automation with in the home. >>> Ofbiz has a sync capability used in the POS that could be used to sync >>> the ofbiz running in the home with the main website. >>> This way each person would have their own personalize themes for their >> home. >>> this would be an embedded Linux server with touch screen. it is all >>> enclosed. >>> you would use the network that automatically connects to other network >>> nodes and builds an Intranet in the home. this allows for other systems >>> to interact with ofbiz. >>> >>> The Framework of ofbiz has the ability to run schedule services. the >>> scripts for the services can be modified without re-compiling or >>> restarting ofbiz, though the actual service defs do require a restart if >> >>> changed or added. this is being worked on so the home system can be >>> updated on the fly. >>> >>> There is also a Setup component that can be added to for new components. >>> >>> needless to say I very sold on ofbiz and what it can do. >>> it does though, as David said have places that need to fleshed out. >>> >>> ========================= >>> >>> BJ Freeman >>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation<http:// >>> www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52> >>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/> >>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist >>> >>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man >>> >>> Vadim Eisenberg sent the following on 9/4/2010 1:02 AM: >>> >>>> Hi David, >>>> >>>> Thank you for your answer and explanations. I failed with the >> formatting >>>> for the second time, so I will try to write in plain text from now on. >>>> >>>> You wrote: "when asking questions here please keep in mind that >> responses >>>> you get are volunteer responses and the only qualification you can be >> sure >>>> of for those responding >>>> is that they are capable of subscribing to the mailing list. If many >>>> people respond with something >>>> consistent then it is a safer bet that you can rely on the >> information, >>>> but usually not otherwise." >>>> >>>> I guess this is how Open Source works :) ? by volunteers contributing >> code >>>> to the product and answering questions in the mailing lists. I still >> would >>>> like to hear as much opinions as possible from the developers "in the >>>> trenches", so anybody is welcome to provide them. I would like to >> thank BJ >>>> again for providing his opinions. >>>> >>>> Please note that the project I participate in, is a kind of Research >> and >>>> Development project, sponsored by EU and implemented by a consortium >> of >>>> academic and industrial partners. The project is planned for four >> years >>>> (ending in January 2014). One of its goals is to create an open source >>>> implementation of an e-commerce solution - uStore, suited for the >> field of >>>> AAL - Ambient Assisted Living (that is a kind of "smart home" for >> senior >>>> citizens). The main concept of uStore is similar to the concept of >>>> AppStore of Apple ? the AAL application developers would be able to >> upload >>>> and sell their applications from the store. In addition to that, AAL >>>> related devices and human services would be sold. An additional >> important >>>> feature is to integrate "social commerce" ? user reviews, blogs, >> forums >>>> etc. >>>> >>>> Please note that developing uStore is Research and Development and >> there >>>> are not yet concrete AAL businesses that would immediately use it. The >>>> goal is to provide some reference open source implementation in four >>>> years. This implementation would be later supported and extended by an >>>> open-source community according to the business needs of AAL >> businesses, >>>> once some real AAL businesses would use it. One of the goals is to >> reuse >>>> the existing open-source OOTB solutions in any field as much as >> possible >>>> in order to save resources as much as possible. >>>> >>>> As a result of the situation, the accent here is more on e-commerce >>>> features of existing e-commerce solutions, especially related to the >>>> e-commerce frontend, than on their ERP features. We would like to use >> the >>>> simplest and the most straightforward standard business model >> (preferably >>>> OOTB) for e-commerce and invest more resources into the frontend >> features. >>>> By the frontend features I mean the website, its accessibility, >> including >>>> presentation on smart phones, search, recommendations, user reviews, >> blogs >>>> and forums etc. As I understand the strength of OfBiz is actually its >> rich >>>> ERP data model, however here we probably do not need the advanced ERP >>>> features of OfBiz. >>>> >>>> I have read your HEMP Light document ? it was interesting and provided >>>> some insights for me. Currently we are in process of finalizing the >> use >>>> cases/requirements of the uStore and evaluating existing e-commerce >>>> solutions, with OfBiz being one of the main candidates. >>>> >>>> Thanks& Regards, >>>> Vadim >>>> >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> Vadim Eisenberg >>>> IT for Healthcare& Life Sciences >>>> IBM Research - Haifa >>>> >>>> >>>> David E Jones<[hidden email]> wrote on 03/09/2010 10:00:38 PM: >>>> >>>>> From: >>>>> >>>>> David E Jones<[hidden email]> >>>>> >>>>> To: >>>>> >>>>> [hidden email] >>>>> >>>>> Date: >>>>> >>>>> 03/09/2010 10:01 PM >>>>> >>>>> Subject: >>>>> >>>>> Re: OfBiz e-commerce customization >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Vadim, >>>>> >>>>> About your formatting: this mailing list filters out all HTML >>>>> because HTML email messages tend to be VERY large and the Apache >>>>> Software Foundation in general has many thousands of messages going >>>>> through mailing lists every day. >>>>> >>>>> Back to your original question: when asking questions here please >>>>> keep in mind that responses you get are volunteer responses and the >>>>> only qualification you can be sure of for those responding is that >>>>> they are capable of subscribing to the mailing list. If many people >>>>> respond with something consistent then it is a safer bet that you >>>>> can rely on the information, but usually not otherwise. With a >>>>> question as long and involved as yours chances are you'll only get a >>>>> small number of responses, and chances are your experience will be >>>>> VERY different from those few who do respond. >>>>> >>>>> OFBiz is a large project. A good developer can learn to work >>>>> effectively with the framework with a couple of weeks of training >>>>> and a couple of months of hands-on development. However, even a good >>>>> developer will have a hard time picking up all of the data >>>>> structures and business logic even after many months of study, and >>>>> realistically since most people don't or can't do that, it usually >>>>> takes years of work experience and even then they'll only have >>>>> knowledge of the parts of the system that have had the opportunity >>>>> to work with. >>>>> >>>>> Understanding the business side is much easier for someone who has a >>>>> good business background, and by good business background I mean >>>>> really good experience with how businesses actually operate and what >>>>> sorts of information businesses actually keep track of when >>>>> operating. Sometimes people coming out of university business >>>>> programs will have this, but most of the time they do not. Most >>>>> people with business degrees will have learned more about laws and >>>>> how to manipulate people than about the myriad of complexities of >>>>> managing a warehouse, handling purchasing, or tracking information >>>>> about products to facility the many touch points with those products >>>>> throughout the company, and making it easy for customers to find >>>>> products they want, or how to figure out where customer interest >>>>> intersects with stuff you want to move. >>>>> >>>>> So anyway, keep in mind that your diving into a pretty comprehensive >>>>> ERP system, but one that is made up of what people have seen fit to >>>>> contribute for free. An extremely wide variety of data structures >>>>> and common business processes are represented in the system, though >>>>> many are not complete, or at least not complete in the way your >>>>> client will want to use them. >>>>> >>>>> The only way to really be sure is to document ALL business >>>>> activities (usually easiest if organized by process and not by role >>>>> or by system function), and then do an overlap/gap analysis to see >>>>> how each business activity would be done in the system, or if there >>>>> is not something to do it (or it is not adequate for what your users >>>>> want) then detail what the system needs to do to help manage that >>>>> activity. Once you've done that, then you'll know what the system >>>>> can do for you as-is, and what needs to be done to expand and change >>>>> the system to do what your client needs. Short of that, everything >>>>> is a guess and guaranteed to be wrong (the only question is by how >>>>> much and in which direction(s)...). >>>>> >>>>> To help with that I recommend this material (this is what I use >>>> withclients): >>>>> >>>>> http://www.dejc.com/home/HEMP.html >>>>> >>>>> I'd also recommend looking at some of the generic business process >>>>> stories that have come from OFBiz-based projects and been refined >>>>> somewhat over the years (though keep in mind that these stories in >>>>> some places represent activities that are not managed by OOTB OFBiz, >>>>> ie these need an overlap/gap analysis document to make them more >>>> meaningful): >>>>> >>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBREQDES/Universal >>>>> +Business+Process+Library+Index >>>>> >>>>> Best of luck, >>>>> -David >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sep 3, 2010, at 11:32 AM, Vadim Eisenberg wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hello BJ and other OfBiz developers, >>>>>> >>>>>> I was not subscribed to the mailing list so I did not receive the >>>> answer >>>>>> of BJ to my previous message - >>>>>> <a href="http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/ofbiz-user/201009.mbox/%">http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/ofbiz-user/201009.mbox/% >>>>> [hidden email]%3E >>>>>> . Because of that I cannot post a response to it. Secondly, I used a >>>> wrong >>>>>> MIME in my previous message, so all the bullets and formatting were >>>>>> missing. I am reposting the original message below in the right >> format >>>> >>>>>> (any additional comments/opinions are welcome). In addition, my >>>> response >>>>>> to BJ follows. Sorry for the mess I created. >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi BJ, >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you for your prompt response. I think I've got the general >> idea. >>>> I >>>>>> still would like to ask a question about learning OfBiz: >>>>>> The three volumes of the data model book comprise about 1700 pages >>>>>> together. Should I use the book as a reference or do I have to read >>>> all >>>>>> the three volumes before starting my work on OfBiz ? Which parts of >>>> the >>>>>> book are required before I begin my work ? >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks& Regards, >>>>>> Vadim >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> My original message: >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >> =========================================================================================================== >> >>>>>> Hello OfBiz developers, >>>>>> >>>>>> My name is Vadim Eisenberg and I work at IBM Research - Haifa, on >> the >>>>>> UniversAAL project - http://universaal.org/. It is a consortium >>>> European >>>>>> project. Its goal is to create a platform for applications, services >>>> and >>>>>> devices for Ambient Assisted Living, that is a kind of "Smart Home" >>>> for >>>>>> senior citizens. As part of the platform, we - several software >>>> developers >>>>>> - have to develop an e-commerce site - uStore >>>>>> http://universaal.org/index.php? >>>>> option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=9&Itemid=21 >>>>>> . This site would be a one-stop-shop for software, services and >>>> devices >>>>>> for Ambient Assisted Living. >>>>>> >>>>>> We consider using OfBiz for implementation of uStore. >>>>>> >>>>>> I would like to ask you several questions about the features we want >>>> to >>>>>> implement. I would be glad to hear any information you can tell me >>>> about >>>>>> how hard could it be for us to implement these features. Please note >>>> that >>>>>> we have no prior experience with OfBiz. >>>>>> >>>>>> Any your thoughts, intuition, experience, advice about >> OfBiz/business >>>>>> programming are welcome. >>>>>> >>>>>> In particular, the following information would help us very much : >>>>>> How much work should be done by us in order to implement all the >>>> features >>>>>> that follow (Person/Months, Person/Years, for skilled OfBiz >>>>>> developers/general software engineers). Which part would be to use >>>>>> existing "extension" mechanisms of OfBiz and which part would be >>>> actually >>>>>> changing the OfBiz code ? Here your intuition/experience from >> related >>>>>> projects is welcome, we do not need exact numbers, just a ballpark. >>>>>> How much time the general software developers have to learn about >>>> OfBiz >>>>>> and how skilled in OfBiz they should become in order to implement >>>> these >>>>>> features >>>>>> >>>>>> E-commerce website features: >>>>>> Using e-commerce site for selling software (such as AppStore of >>>> iPhone) >>>>>> and downloadable files in general (video, presentations of courses >>>> etc.). >>>>>> Here the issue is to manage links where the bought files could be >>>>>> downloaded. The idea is to prevent a situation in which buyers would >>>> buy a >>>>>> software application, receive a link to it for downloading and share >>>> the >>>>>> link afterwards with anybody they want, so anybody would be able to >>>>>> download the application without paying for it. >>>>>> Using e-commerce site for selling services (human services and >> others) >>>>>> Extending e-commerce site with general widgets, such as calendar, >>>> clock, >>>>>> map, a widget for downloading files, etc., and integrating the >> widgets >>>> >>>>>> with the OfBiz >>>>>> >>>>>> Integration with other websites/services: >>>>>> Integrating an e-commerce website with another (non-OfBiz backed) >> site >>>> - >>>>>> adding possibility for sellers to add products to the e-commerce >> site >>>> via >>>>>> the other site, to see customer feedback provided on the e-commerce >>>> site >>>>>> via the other site >>>>>> Integrating an e-commerce website with another (possibly non-OfBiz) >>>>>> e-commerce website, such as eBay/Amazon. What are the current >>>>>> possibilities of integration with eBay ? >>>>>> Integrating an e-commerce website with post/delivery services/sites >>>>>> >>>>>> Adding advanced features: >>>>>> Adding support for signing business contracts between service >>>> consumers >>>>>> and service providers, between providers of different services etc. >>>> via >>>>>> the e-commerce site >>>>>> Adding support for applying capability/requirement model, such as >>>>>> JSR-124, (for example for matching between customer's requirements >>>> and >>>>>> capabilities of software, devices and services). The customer or >>>> software >>>>>> agent on behalf of the customer could provide his requirements as >> part >>>> of >>>>>> his account information, and the e-commerce solution would match >>>> between >>>>>> the products (according to their capabilities) and the requirements >> of >>>> the >>>>>> customers. >>>>>> Has OfBiz a recommendation engine (providing recommendations to a >> user >>>> >>>>>> based on his activity - searches, purchases, reviews etc.) ? If no, >>>> how >>>>>> hard would it be to add it ? >>>>>> Can the OfBiz-based e-commerce web site be presented by browsers of >>>> smart >>>>>> phones ? How hard would it be to enable it ? >>>>>> Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the >>>> requirements >>>>>> of the customer >>>>>> Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the >>>> geolocation of >>>>>> the customer >>>>>> Adding support for customization of products/services and changes in >>>> the >>>>>> prices according to the customization during the purchase process >>>>>> Adding support for a composition solution of hardware, software and >>>> human >>>>>> services (bundles, kits). A seller could compose a new product by >>>>>> combining several existing products >>>>>> Adding support for manual approval of products by site >> administrators >>>>>> before submission of the products to the e-commerce site >>>>>> Adding support for managing versions of the software applications >> that >>>> are >>>>>> sold on the e-commerce website >>>>>> >>>>>> Sorry for so many questions and sorry if some of them are out of >>>> context. >>>>>> >>>>>> Best Regards, >>>>>> Vadim >>>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>>> Vadim Eisenberg >>>>>> IT for Healthcare& Life Sciences >>>>>> IBM Research - Haifa >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >> > |
In reply to this post by Vadim Eisenberg
As it's mentioned in other threads, you can trim OFBiz to make a product
to compete with Apple education (iTune U more exactly). You don't have to spend 4 years, 2 years is enough. 在 2010-09-05日的 10:29 +0300,Vadim Eisenberg写道: > Hi Shi Jinghai, > > We considered other open-source e-commerce solutions such as osCommerce > http://www.oscommerce.com/, but it is licensed under GPL. We cannot use > GPL/LGPL code in our project. So the advantage of OfBiz is its Apache > license. We are unaware of other open source e-commerce solutions that are > not licensed under GPL/LGPL. > > Best Regards, > Vadim > ------------------------------- > Vadim Eisenberg > IT for Healthcare & Life Sciences > IBM Research - Haifa > > > Shi Jinghai <[hidden email]> wrote on 05/09/2010 01:26:44 AM: > > > From: > > > > Shi Jinghai <[hidden email]> > > > > To: > > > > [hidden email] > > > > Date: > > > > 05/09/2010 01:27 AM > > > > Subject: > > > > Re: OfBiz e-commerce customization > > > > It seems your strategy is very clear: you need a set of UI for free and > > will sell your middle ware in the future. If so, I guess OFBiz will not > > be your choice. > > > > > > 在 2010-09-04六的 11:02 +0300,Vadim Eisenberg写道: > > > Hi David, > > > > > > Thank you for your answer and explanations. I failed with the > formatting > > > for the second time, so I will try to write in plain text from now on. > > > > > > You wrote: "when asking questions here please keep in mind that > responses > > > you get are volunteer responses and the only qualification you can be > sure > > > of for those responding > > > is that they are capable of subscribing to the mailing list. If many > > > people respond with something > > > consistent then it is a safer bet that you can rely on the > information, > > > but usually not otherwise." > > > > > > I guess this is how Open Source works :) ? by volunteers contributing > code > > > to the product and answering questions in the mailing lists. I still > would > > > like to hear as much opinions as possible from the developers "in the > > > trenches", so anybody is welcome to provide them. I would like to > thank BJ > > > again for providing his opinions. > > > > > > Please note that the project I participate in, is a kind of Research > and > > > Development project, sponsored by EU and implemented by a consortium > of > > > academic and industrial partners. The project is planned for four > years > > > (ending in January 2014). One of its goals is to create an open source > > > > implementation of an e-commerce solution - uStore, suited for the > field of > > > AAL - Ambient Assisted Living (that is a kind of "smart home" for > senior > > > citizens). The main concept of uStore is similar to the concept of > > > AppStore of Apple ? the AAL application developers would be able to > upload > > > and sell their applications from the store. In addition to that, AAL > > > related devices and human services would be sold. An additional > important > > > feature is to integrate "social commerce" ? user reviews, blogs, > forums > > > etc. > > > > > > Please note that developing uStore is Research and Development and > there > > > are not yet concrete AAL businesses that would immediately use it. The > > > > goal is to provide some reference open source implementation in four > > > years. This implementation would be later supported and extended by an > > > > open-source community according to the business needs of AAL > businesses, > > > once some real AAL businesses would use it. One of the goals is to > reuse > > > the existing open-source OOTB solutions in any field as much as > possible > > > in order to save resources as much as possible. > > > > > > As a result of the situation, the accent here is more on e-commerce > > > features of existing e-commerce solutions, especially related to the > > > e-commerce frontend, than on their ERP features. We would like to use > the > > > simplest and the most straightforward standard business model > (preferably > > > OOTB) for e-commerce and invest more resources into the frontend > features. > > > By the frontend features I mean the website, its accessibility, > including > > > presentation on smart phones, search, recommendations, user reviews, > blogs > > > and forums etc. As I understand the strength of OfBiz is actually its > rich > > > ERP data model, however here we probably do not need the advanced ERP > > > features of OfBiz. > > > > > > I have read your HEMP Light document ? it was interesting and provided > > > > some insights for me. Currently we are in process of finalizing the > use > > > cases/requirements of the uStore and evaluating existing e-commerce > > > solutions, with OfBiz being one of the main candidates. > > > > > > Thanks & Regards, > > > Vadim > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > Vadim Eisenberg > > > IT for Healthcare & Life Sciences > > > IBM Research - Haifa > > > > > > > > > David E Jones <[hidden email]> wrote on 03/09/2010 10:00:38 PM: > > > > > > > From: > > > > > > > > David E Jones <[hidden email]> > > > > > > > > To: > > > > > > > > [hidden email] > > > > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > 03/09/2010 10:01 PM > > > > > > > > Subject: > > > > > > > > Re: OfBiz e-commerce customization > > > > > > > > > > > > Vadim, > > > > > > > > About your formatting: this mailing list filters out all HTML > > > > because HTML email messages tend to be VERY large and the Apache > > > > Software Foundation in general has many thousands of messages going > > > > through mailing lists every day. > > > > > > > > Back to your original question: when asking questions here please > > > > keep in mind that responses you get are volunteer responses and the > > > > only qualification you can be sure of for those responding is that > > > > they are capable of subscribing to the mailing list. If many people > > > > respond with something consistent then it is a safer bet that you > > > > can rely on the information, but usually not otherwise. With a > > > > question as long and involved as yours chances are you'll only get a > > > > small number of responses, and chances are your experience will be > > > > VERY different from those few who do respond. > > > > > > > > OFBiz is a large project. A good developer can learn to work > > > > effectively with the framework with a couple of weeks of training > > > > and a couple of months of hands-on development. However, even a good > > > > developer will have a hard time picking up all of the data > > > > structures and business logic even after many months of study, and > > > > realistically since most people don't or can't do that, it usually > > > > takes years of work experience and even then they'll only have > > > > knowledge of the parts of the system that have had the opportunity > > > > to work with. > > > > > > > > Understanding the business side is much easier for someone who has a > > > > good business background, and by good business background I mean > > > > really good experience with how businesses actually operate and what > > > > sorts of information businesses actually keep track of when > > > > operating. Sometimes people coming out of university business > > > > programs will have this, but most of the time they do not. Most > > > > people with business degrees will have learned more about laws and > > > > how to manipulate people than about the myriad of complexities of > > > > managing a warehouse, handling purchasing, or tracking information > > > > about products to facility the many touch points with those products > > > > throughout the company, and making it easy for customers to find > > > > products they want, or how to figure out where customer interest > > > > intersects with stuff you want to move. > > > > > > > > So anyway, keep in mind that your diving into a pretty comprehensive > > > > ERP system, but one that is made up of what people have seen fit to > > > > contribute for free. An extremely wide variety of data structures > > > > and common business processes are represented in the system, though > > > > many are not complete, or at least not complete in the way your > > > > client will want to use them. > > > > > > > > The only way to really be sure is to document ALL business > > > > activities (usually easiest if organized by process and not by role > > > > or by system function), and then do an overlap/gap analysis to see > > > > how each business activity would be done in the system, or if there > > > > is not something to do it (or it is not adequate for what your users > > > > want) then detail what the system needs to do to help manage that > > > > activity. Once you've done that, then you'll know what the system > > > > can do for you as-is, and what needs to be done to expand and change > > > > the system to do what your client needs. Short of that, everything > > > > is a guess and guaranteed to be wrong (the only question is by how > > > > much and in which direction(s)...). > > > > > > > > To help with that I recommend this material (this is what I use > > > withclients): > > > > > > > > http://www.dejc.com/home/HEMP.html > > > > > > > > I'd also recommend looking at some of the generic business process > > > > stories that have come from OFBiz-based projects and been refined > > > > somewhat over the years (though keep in mind that these stories in > > > > some places represent activities that are not managed by OOTB OFBiz, > > > > ie these need an overlap/gap analysis document to make them more > > > meaningful): > > > > > > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBREQDES/Universal > > > > +Business+Process+Library+Index > > > > > > > > Best of luck, > > > > -David > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sep 3, 2010, at 11:32 AM, Vadim Eisenberg wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hello BJ and other OfBiz developers, > > > > > > > > > > I was not subscribed to the mailing list so I did not receive the > > > answer > > > > > of BJ to my previous message - > > > > > <a href="http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/ofbiz-user/201009.mbox/%">http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/ofbiz-user/201009.mbox/% > > > > [hidden email]%3E > > > > > . Because of that I cannot post a response to it. Secondly, I used > a > > > wrong > > > > > MIME in my previous message, so all the bullets and formatting > were > > > > > missing. I am reposting the original message below in the right > format > > > > > > > > (any additional comments/opinions are welcome). In addition, my > > > response > > > > > to BJ follows. Sorry for the mess I created. > > > > > > > > > > Hi BJ, > > > > > > > > > > Thank you for your prompt response. I think I've got the general > idea. > > > I > > > > > still would like to ask a question about learning OfBiz: > > > > > The three volumes of the data model book comprise about 1700 pages > > > > > > together. Should I use the book as a reference or do I have to > read > > > all > > > > > the three volumes before starting my work on OfBiz ? Which parts > of > > > the > > > > > book are required before I begin my work ? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks & Regards, > > > > > Vadim > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My original message: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =========================================================================================================== > > > > > Hello OfBiz developers, > > > > > > > > > > My name is Vadim Eisenberg and I work at IBM Research - Haifa, on > the > > > > > UniversAAL project - http://universaal.org/. It is a consortium > > > European > > > > > project. Its goal is to create a platform for applications, > services > > > and > > > > > devices for Ambient Assisted Living, that is a kind of "Smart > Home" > > > for > > > > > senior citizens. As part of the platform, we - several software > > > developers > > > > > - have to develop an e-commerce site - uStore > > > > > http://universaal.org/index.php? > > > > option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=9&Itemid=21 > > > > > . This site would be a one-stop-shop for software, services and > > > devices > > > > > for Ambient Assisted Living. > > > > > > > > > > We consider using OfBiz for implementation of uStore. > > > > > > > > > > I would like to ask you several questions about the features we > want > > > to > > > > > implement. I would be glad to hear any information you can tell me > > > > about > > > > > how hard could it be for us to implement these features. Please > note > > > that > > > > > we have no prior experience with OfBiz. > > > > > > > > > > Any your thoughts, intuition, experience, advice about > OfBiz/business > > > > > programming are welcome. > > > > > > > > > > In particular, the following information would help us very much : > > > > > How much work should be done by us in order to implement all the > > > features > > > > > that follow (Person/Months, Person/Years, for skilled OfBiz > > > > > developers/general software engineers). Which part would be to use > > > > > > existing "extension" mechanisms of OfBiz and which part would be > > > actually > > > > > changing the OfBiz code ? Here your intuition/experience from > related > > > > > projects is welcome, we do not need exact numbers, just a > ballpark. > > > > > How much time the general software developers have to learn about > > > OfBiz > > > > > and how skilled in OfBiz they should become in order to implement > > > > these > > > > > features > > > > > > > > > > E-commerce website features: > > > > > Using e-commerce site for selling software (such as AppStore of > > > iPhone) > > > > > and downloadable files in general (video, presentations of courses > > > > etc.). > > > > > Here the issue is to manage links where the bought files could be > > > > > downloaded. The idea is to prevent a situation in which buyers > would > > > buy a > > > > > software application, receive a link to it for downloading and > share > > > the > > > > > link afterwards with anybody they want, so anybody would be able > to > > > > > download the application without paying for it. > > > > > Using e-commerce site for selling services (human services and > others) > > > > > Extending e-commerce site with general widgets, such as calendar, > > > clock, > > > > > map, a widget for downloading files, etc., and integrating the > widgets > > > > > > > > with the OfBiz > > > > > > > > > > Integration with other websites/services: > > > > > Integrating an e-commerce website with another (non-OfBiz backed) > site > > > - > > > > > adding possibility for sellers to add products to the e-commerce > site > > > via > > > > > the other site, to see customer feedback provided on the > e-commerce > > > site > > > > > via the other site > > > > > Integrating an e-commerce website with another (possibly > non-OfBiz) > > > > > e-commerce website, such as eBay/Amazon. What are the current > > > > > possibilities of integration with eBay ? > > > > > Integrating an e-commerce website with post/delivery > services/sites > > > > > > > > > > Adding advanced features: > > > > > Adding support for signing business contracts between service > > > consumers > > > > > and service providers, between providers of different services > etc. > > > via > > > > > the e-commerce site > > > > > Adding support for applying capability/requirement model, such as > > > > > JSR-124, (for example for matching between customer's > requirements > > > and > > > > > capabilities of software, devices and services). The customer or > > > software > > > > > agent on behalf of the customer could provide his requirements as > part > > > of > > > > > his account information, and the e-commerce solution would match > > > between > > > > > the products (according to their capabilities) and the > requirements of > > > the > > > > > customers. > > > > > Has OfBiz a recommendation engine (providing recommendations to a > user > > > > > > > > based on his activity - searches, purchases, reviews etc.) ? If > no, > > > how > > > > > hard would it be to add it ? > > > > > Can the OfBiz-based e-commerce web site be presented by browsers > of > > > smart > > > > > phones ? How hard would it be to enable it ? > > > > > Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the > > > requirements > > > > > of the customer > > > > > Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the > > > geolocation of > > > > > the customer > > > > > Adding support for customization of products/services and changes > in > > > the > > > > > prices according to the customization during the purchase process > > > > > Adding support for a composition solution of hardware, software > and > > > human > > > > > services (bundles, kits). A seller could compose a new product by > > > > > combining several existing products > > > > > Adding support for manual approval of products by site > administrators > > > > > before submission of the products to the e-commerce site > > > > > Adding support for managing versions of the software applications > that > > > are > > > > > sold on the e-commerce website > > > > > > > > > > Sorry for so many questions and sorry if some of them are out of > > > context. > > > > > > > > > > Best Regards, > > > > > Vadim > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > Vadim Eisenberg > > > > > IT for Healthcare & Life Sciences > > > > > IBM Research - Haifa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > |
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