Project morale

[Ron Wheeler]

The Chairperson and the senior PMC members need to step in very quickly
to stop personal attacks.
This is a very corrosive element in this project and the PMC needs to
see that this is not allowed in the ML or meetings.
People need to be able to disagree without being disagreeable.

When a conversation strays from concepts or technology into insults and
personal attacks, it is the person making the personal attack that loses
the respect of the community.

View from the cheap seats.
Ron

--
Ron Wheeler
President
Artifact Software Inc
email: [hidden email]
skype: ronaldmwheeler
phone: [phone], ext 102

[Mike Z]

+1

On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 8:22 AM, Ron Wheeler <[hidden email]
> wrote:

> The Chairperson and the senior PMC members need to step in very quickly to
> stop personal attacks.
> This is a very corrosive element in this project and the PMC needs to see
> that this is not allowed in the ML or meetings.
> People need to be able to disagree without being disagreeable.
>
> When a conversation strays from concepts or technology into insults and
> personal attacks, it is the person making the personal attack that loses
> the respect of the community.
>
> View from the cheap seats.
> Ron
>
> --
> Ron Wheeler
> President
> Artifact Software Inc
> email: [hidden email]
> skype: ronaldmwheeler
> phone: [phone], ext 102
>
>

[Mike Z]

Correction:  I agree that a more appropriate, respectful tone should be
expressed on the ML, but I don't believe it is necessary to get the PMC
involved.

On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 3:00 PM, Mike <[hidden email]> wrote:

> +1
>
> On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 8:22 AM, Ron Wheeler <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> The Chairperson and the senior PMC members need to step in very quickly
>> to stop personal attacks.
>> This is a very corrosive element in this project and the PMC needs to see
>> that this is not allowed in the ML or meetings.
>> People need to be able to disagree without being disagreeable.
>>
>> When a conversation strays from concepts or technology into insults and
>> personal attacks, it is the person making the personal attack that loses
>> the respect of the community.
>>
>> View from the cheap seats.
>> Ron
>>
>> --
>> Ron Wheeler
>> President
>> Artifact Software Inc
>> email: [hidden email]
>> skype: ronaldmwheeler
>> phone: [phone], ext 102
>>
>>
>

[Adrian Crum-3]

+1

Also, it would be nice if the senior PMC members would step in and
eliminate hunger and poverty.

Seriously though, I understand where you are coming from - but you are a
bit late to the party. The PMC members are patient and tolerant, but
there comes a time when repeated unwarranted attacks (or wild conspiracy
theories) provoke a response.

Flames wars occur in every online forum - this one included. I don't
think anyone has the power to prevent them or control them - they just
happen. Your appeals won't change that.

Everyone here tends to look the other way and let the warring parties go
at each other until something comes along to distract them.

Adrian Crum
Sandglass Software
www.sandglass-software.com

On 9/24/2014 4:22 PM, Ron Wheeler wrote:

> The Chairperson and the senior PMC members need to step in very quickly
> to stop personal attacks.
> This is a very corrosive element in this project and the PMC needs to
> see that this is not allowed in the ML or meetings.
> People need to be able to disagree without being disagreeable.
>
> When a conversation strays from concepts or technology into insults and
> personal attacks, it is the person making the personal attack that loses
> the respect of the community.
>
> View from the cheap seats.
> Ron
>

[Todd Thorner]

Thank you, sir.  I have been biting my cybertongue this whole time,
knowing that the flames would die and hoping in the meantime to avoid
perpetuation of the childishness -- but this call for bureaucratic "big
guns" to bully other bureaucrats into some sense of bureaucratic order
is just too much.

Remember, everyone, this project isn't called OFBureau.  Raise your
hands in the air, all you entrepreneurs out there.



On 14-09-24 03:30 PM, Mike wrote:

> Correction:  I agree that a more appropriate, respectful tone should be
> expressed on the ML, but I don't believe it is necessary to get the PMC
> involved.
>
> On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 3:00 PM, Mike <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> +1
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 8:22 AM, Ron Wheeler <
>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> The Chairperson and the senior PMC members need to step in very quickly
>>> to stop personal attacks.
>>> This is a very corrosive element in this project and the PMC needs to see
>>> that this is not allowed in the ML or meetings.
>>> People need to be able to disagree without being disagreeable.
>>>
>>> When a conversation strays from concepts or technology into insults and
>>> personal attacks, it is the person making the personal attack that loses
>>> the respect of the community.
>>>
>>> View from the cheap seats.
>>> Ron
>>>
>>> --
>>> Ron Wheeler
>>> President
>>> Artifact Software Inc
>>> email: [hidden email]
>>> skype: ronaldmwheeler
>>> phone: [phone], ext 102
>>>
>>>
>>
>

[Pierre Smits]

All sarcasm aside, project morale is not just a thing of the other. It is
of all of us participating in this project.

I agree with Adrian that heated discussions happen in every community. The
most important thing is that we as a community learn from it and improves
ourselves so all get better in working together.

Adrian points out that *everybody* tends to look the other way in the hope
that the next distraction comes along. This is not true. It is the majority
that looks the other way.

There is this minority that feels that project morale needs to improve. The
morale of all participants in this community, the morale of non-committing
contributors, committers *and* PMC members.
There is this minority that feels that the PMC should focus more on
community (building) than on just on code. That more is done to doing just
to all parties using and contributing to the works of this project.
Because the more happiness is felt by all, the better the collaboration is.
Which leads to more contributors, more adopters, And more bugs get fixed
and we all get better and more solutions.

In other mail threads, here and in the dev mailing list, Adrian has (and
other committers/PMC Members have) stated that we - the rest of this
community - can't tell the PMC what its role is.
That we must learn what the role of the PMC is and accept it as it is and
what it is worth. Basically he is saying (like other have)  that we can't
question the actions of the PMC and its members or committers. That we
can't question whether these actions were and are doing just to all of us.
Whether these actions were and are furthering this project and its
community.

And he is right. The PMC is self appointing. And PMC membership is (de
facto) for life. The PMC Members are the only ones to decide who gets into
that project body. Who they like. And how their other actions are.

But we, the rest of this community, have the right to question these
actions of the PMC.
We have the right to demand from the PMC to define what its role is, how it
should (and must) act with respect to community building and doing just to
all.
We have the right to tell the PMC that it should and must have a policy and
code of conduct regarding its own actions and that it adheres to that,
before it is telling the other (the non-voting) contributors how to work in
this project.
We have the right to demand from the PMC to come up with instructions for
committers regarding release policies and committing code and other code
related stuff, and enforce it.
We have the right to demand from the PMC that it works harder on getting
more committers on board, so that more is done in the code and the other
works of this project. So that burden is shared among more than just the
few we have active now.

We have the right to demand from the PMC to do just to all in this
community, not only to the 'privileged' few. For a better OFBiz project.
For now and in the future.

Or don't we?

And how should the PMC react to that?

Well, it shouldn't respond with being patient and riding out the storm,
ignoring it and hoping that the discussions regarding PMC and committer
actions dies down and that the people questioning these actions leave the
community.
Nor should respond it with 'these are the rules of the game and deal with
it'.

And let's face it, let us be honest to ourselves and this community, and
admit that the PMC has been responding that way. And that is not community
building.

Let's learn from the past and work towards the better future. For all.

Regards,

Pierre Smits

*ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com

[Ron Wheeler]

I have a pretty thick skin and I would urge others to have the same but
the effect of a flame war on the reputation of the whole project is not
in good.

It would be preferable for the feuding parties to settle their
differences in an amicable way but I am old enough to know that
sometimes this is hard to do.

If something absolutely demands a personal attack, I would hope that
people will not do it in public.

The leadership group and the people who really care about the project
need to step in to protect the professional image of the entire team and
all the good work being done.

One thing that has worked well for me is to wait a week before writing a
response to someone whose comments or on-line behaviour deserves severe
punishment or worse.
I very seldom write the same thing that I would have written in the heat
of the moment.
Most of the time, I finally realize that the thing was not that
important and the world has continued to unfold without the benefit of
my insight into the other person's evil nature that seemed to be so
critical at the time.

Ron


On 24/09/2014 7:01 PM, Adrian Crum wrote:

> +1
>
> Also, it would be nice if the senior PMC members would step in and
> eliminate hunger and poverty.
>
> Seriously though, I understand where you are coming from - but you are
> a bit late to the party. The PMC members are patient and tolerant, but
> there comes a time when repeated unwarranted attacks (or wild
> conspiracy theories) provoke a response.
>
> Flames wars occur in every online forum - this one included. I don't
> think anyone has the power to prevent them or control them - they just
> happen. Your appeals won't change that.
>
> Everyone here tends to look the other way and let the warring parties
> go at each other until something comes along to distract them.
>
> Adrian Crum
> Sandglass Software
> www.sandglass-software.com
>
> On 9/24/2014 4:22 PM, Ron Wheeler wrote:
>> The Chairperson and the senior PMC members need to step in very quickly
>> to stop personal attacks.
>> This is a very corrosive element in this project and the PMC needs to
>> see that this is not allowed in the ML or meetings.
>> People need to be able to disagree without being disagreeable.
>>
>> When a conversation strays from concepts or technology into insults and
>> personal attacks, it is the person making the personal attack that loses
>> the respect of the community.
>>
>> View from the cheap seats.
>> Ron
>>
>

--
Ron Wheeler
President
Artifact Software Inc
email: [hidden email]
skype: ronaldmwheeler
phone: [phone], ext 102