Proposal : Improve currency conversion rate

[Nicolas Malin-2]

Hi,

With the current customer project I need to manage some currency conversion rate during a period, a purpose and between two party.
The main case is the Euro company who work with American Supplier and sign a agreement exchange rate to stabilize their invoicing and payment instead of follow the stock exchange.

At this time the first two has covered by UomConversionDated, but nothing is present two indicate what is my currency conversion rate with an other company.

It's easy to solve with Agreement entity, a dedicate agreementTypeId and add an assoc entity AgreementUomConversionDatedAppl.
An other problem, it's impossible to define different rate for the same currency at the same date like this
uomId uomIdTo fromDate                   rate
    EUR       USD 2015-01-01 00:00:00  1.200 -> use by an agreement between MyCompany - Mc Company
    EUR       USD 2015-01-01 00:00:00  1.258 -> use by an agreement between MyCompany - Mc Society
    EUR       USD 2015-01-01 00:00:00  1.248 -> use by an agreement between MySubsidiaryCompany - Mc Society

My first idea would be move UomConversionDated on single pk uomConversionDatedId but I prefer to adding a new entity like :

UomConvSource
 uomConvSourceId *
 uomId
 uomIdTo
 fromDate
 thruDate
 conversionFactor
 customMethodId
 decimalScale
 roundingMode
 purposeEnumId

And :
AgreementUomConvSourceAppl
 agreementId *
 uomConvSourceId *

With this, I will do add helper service to resolve the conversion rate from a context with the step :
 * scanning Agreement
 * scanning UomConversionDated
 * scanning UomConversion

Any remarks and suggest are welcome as usual ;)

[hans_bakker]

Why fix the conversion rate?, just agree on the foreign currency
amount.....Invoices are always in the currency of the customer...and so
is the payment, only inside the system the values are converted and
should not interest your customer ....

On 13/01/15 22:32, Nicolas Malin wrote:

> Hi,
>
> With the current customer project I need to manage some currency
> conversion rate during a period, a purpose and between two party.
> The main case is the Euro company who work with American Supplier and
> sign a agreement exchange rate to stabilize their invoicing and
> payment instead of follow the stock exchange.
>
> At this time the first two has covered by UomConversionDated, but
> nothing is present two indicate what is my currency conversion rate
> with an other company.
>
> It's easy to solve with Agreement entity, a dedicate agreementTypeId
> and add an assoc entity AgreementUomConversionDatedAppl.
> An other problem, it's impossible to define different rate for the
> same currency at the same date like this
> uomId uomIdTo fromDate                   rate
>     EUR       USD 2015-01-01 00:00:00  1.200 -> use by an agreement
> between MyCompany - Mc Company
>     EUR       USD 2015-01-01 00:00:00  1.258 -> use by an agreement
> between MyCompany - Mc Society
>     EUR       USD 2015-01-01 00:00:00  1.248 -> use by an agreement
> between MySubsidiaryCompany - Mc Society
>
> My first idea would be move UomConversionDated on single pk
> uomConversionDatedId but I prefer to adding a new entity like :
>
> UomConvSource
>  uomConvSourceId *
>  uomId
>  uomIdTo
>  fromDate
>  thruDate
>  conversionFactor
>  customMethodId
>  decimalScale
>  roundingMode
>  purposeEnumId
>
> And :
> AgreementUomConvSourceAppl
>  agreementId *
>  uomConvSourceId *
>
> With this, I will do add helper service to resolve the conversion rate
> from a context with the step :
>  * scanning Agreement
>  * scanning UomConversionDated
>  * scanning UomConversion
>
> Any remarks and suggest are welcome as usual ;)
>
> --
> #jeSuisCharlie (et j'emmerde les lobbotomisés)
> logoNrd <http://nereide.fr/>
> Nicolas Malin
> Responsable Interplanétaire de la reproduction des crevettes licorne
> en apesanteur astral
> [hidden email]
> 3bis rue des Isles 37270 VERETZ 02 47 50 30 54
>
> Apache OFBiz <http://ofbiz.apache.org/> | ofbiz-fr
> <http://www.ofbiz-fr.org/> | | réseau LE
> <http://www.libre-entreprise.org/>

[Pierre Smits]

Nicolas,

Please research IAS documents regarding foreign exchange rates and their
effects.

Foreign exchange rates have a limited lifespan and each has a specific
application and/or purpose in the accounting and financing domain of an
organisation. And at any given moment in time multiple can exist for a
given combination (e.g. EUR<>USD) within these domains. And regarding GCR
all need to be registered and reported.

Consider the following basics:

   - the agreed-upon (internal) exchange rate for the financial reporting
   purpose (e.g. used in the gl transactions) of a given reporting period
   - the exchange rate for the day (spot rate)

That can lead to the following registrations

   - the exchange rate applicable at the start date of the agreement (9 out
   of 10 times this is the same as the agreed-upon internal exchange rate),
   for contract valuation purposes. If the agreement duration is longer than
   the financial reporting period, one sees that the valuation of the
   agreement changes over time.
   - the agreed upon exchange rate at the start date of the financing
   arrangement of the agreement. Think of an agreement negotiated in YEN
   (internal currency in EUR), and financing instruments applied regarding
   future payments (e.g. in USD, GBP).
   - The official exchange rate applicable for the currency at the moment
   of invoicing in relation to the country of delivery. Think delivery in a
   currency deprived country where the government dictates that x % of the
   payment must be in their currency of choice.

And even more can be in play....

The scenario outlined by Hans is a optimistic, yet limited viewpoint on
reality. Your use-case is a real-life scenario and if we want OFBiz to be
usable in more settings than only in those (perceived by the few), we need
to address and resolve the issue.

Please open an improvement issue in JIRA, so that we can keep the aspects
regarding discussion and action points (sub-tasks, dependencies, etc)
together.

Regards

Pierre Smits

*ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com

On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 1:58 AM, Hans Bakker <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Why fix the conversion rate?, just agree on the foreign currency
> amount.....Invoices are always in the currency of the customer...and so is
> the payment, only inside the system the values are converted and should not
> interest your customer ....
>
>
> On 13/01/15 22:32, Nicolas Malin wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> With the current customer project I need to manage some currency
>> conversion rate during a period, a purpose and between two party.
>> The main case is the Euro company who work with American Supplier and
>> sign a agreement exchange rate to stabilize their invoicing and payment
>> instead of follow the stock exchange.
>>
>> At this time the first two has covered by UomConversionDated, but nothing
>> is present two indicate what is my currency conversion rate with an other
>> company.
>>
>> It's easy to solve with Agreement entity, a dedicate agreementTypeId and
>> add an assoc entity AgreementUomConversionDatedAppl.
>> An other problem, it's impossible to define different rate for the same
>> currency at the same date like this
>> uomId uomIdTo fromDate                   rate
>>     EUR       USD 2015-01-01 00:00:00  1.200 -> use by an agreement
>> between MyCompany - Mc Company
>>     EUR       USD 2015-01-01 00:00:00  1.258 -> use by an agreement
>> between MyCompany - Mc Society
>>     EUR       USD 2015-01-01 00:00:00  1.248 -> use by an agreement
>> between MySubsidiaryCompany - Mc Society
>>
>> My first idea would be move UomConversionDated on single pk
>> uomConversionDatedId but I prefer to adding a new entity like :
>>
>> UomConvSource
>>  uomConvSourceId *
>>  uomId
>>  uomIdTo
>>  fromDate
>>  thruDate
>>  conversionFactor
>>  customMethodId
>>  decimalScale
>>  roundingMode
>>  purposeEnumId
>>
>> And :
>> AgreementUomConvSourceAppl
>>  agreementId *
>>  uomConvSourceId *
>>
>> With this, I will do add helper service to resolve the conversion rate
>> from a context with the step :
>>  * scanning Agreement
>>  * scanning UomConversionDated
>>  * scanning UomConversion
>>
>> Any remarks and suggest are welcome as usual ;)
>>
>> --
>> #jeSuisCharlie (et j'emmerde les lobbotomisés)
>> logoNrd <http://nereide.fr/>
>>         Nicolas Malin
>> Responsable Interplanétaire de la reproduction des crevettes licorne en
>> apesanteur astral
>> [hidden email]
>> 3bis rue des Isles 37270 VERETZ 02 47 50 30 54
>>
>> Apache OFBiz <http://ofbiz.apache.org/> | ofbiz-fr <
>> http://www.ofbiz-fr.org/> | | réseau LE <http://www.libre-entreprise.org/
>> >
>>
>
>

[Gavin Mabie-2]

Check https://openexchangerates.org/

They have a real-time exchange rates & currency conversion JSON API.  Free
for developers, but I think companies have to pay.

Gavin

On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 12:17 PM, Pierre Smits <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Nicolas,
>
> Please research IAS documents regarding foreign exchange rates and their
> effects.
>
> Foreign exchange rates have a limited lifespan and each has a specific
> application and/or purpose in the accounting and financing domain of an
> organisation. And at any given moment in time multiple can exist for a
> given combination (e.g. EUR<>USD) within these domains. And regarding GCR
> all need to be registered and reported.
>
> Consider the following basics:
>
>    - the agreed-upon (internal) exchange rate for the financial reporting
>    purpose (e.g. used in the gl transactions) of a given reporting period
>    - the exchange rate for the day (spot rate)
>
> That can lead to the following registrations
>
>    - the exchange rate applicable at the start date of the agreement (9 out
>    of 10 times this is the same as the agreed-upon internal exchange rate),
>    for contract valuation purposes. If the agreement duration is longer
> than
>    the financial reporting period, one sees that the valuation of the
>    agreement changes over time.
>    - the agreed upon exchange rate at the start date of the financing
>    arrangement of the agreement. Think of an agreement negotiated in YEN
>    (internal currency in EUR), and financing instruments applied regarding
>    future payments (e.g. in USD, GBP).
>    - The official exchange rate applicable for the currency at the moment
>    of invoicing in relation to the country of delivery. Think delivery in a
>    currency deprived country where the government dictates that x % of the
>    payment must be in their currency of choice.
>
> And even more can be in play....
>
> The scenario outlined by Hans is a optimistic, yet limited viewpoint on
> reality. Your use-case is a real-life scenario and if we want OFBiz to be
> usable in more settings than only in those (perceived by the few), we need
> to address and resolve the issue.
>
> Please open an improvement issue in JIRA, so that we can keep the aspects
> regarding discussion and action points (sub-tasks, dependencies, etc)
> together.
>
> Regards
>
> Pierre Smits
>
> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> Services and Retail & Trade
> http://www.orrtiz.com
>
> On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 1:58 AM, Hans Bakker <
> [hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Why fix the conversion rate?, just agree on the foreign currency
> > amount.....Invoices are always in the currency of the customer...and so
> is
> > the payment, only inside the system the values are converted and should
> not
> > interest your customer ....
> >
> >
> > On 13/01/15 22:32, Nicolas Malin wrote:
> >
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> With the current customer project I need to manage some currency
> >> conversion rate during a period, a purpose and between two party.
> >> The main case is the Euro company who work with American Supplier and
> >> sign a agreement exchange rate to stabilize their invoicing and payment
> >> instead of follow the stock exchange.
> >>
> >> At this time the first two has covered by UomConversionDated, but
> nothing
> >> is present two indicate what is my currency conversion rate with an
> other
> >> company.
> >>
> >> It's easy to solve with Agreement entity, a dedicate agreementTypeId and
> >> add an assoc entity AgreementUomConversionDatedAppl.
> >> An other problem, it's impossible to define different rate for the same
> >> currency at the same date like this
> >> uomId uomIdTo fromDate                   rate
> >>     EUR       USD 2015-01-01 00:00:00  1.200 -> use by an agreement
> >> between MyCompany - Mc Company
> >>     EUR       USD 2015-01-01 00:00:00  1.258 -> use by an agreement
> >> between MyCompany - Mc Society
> >>     EUR       USD 2015-01-01 00:00:00  1.248 -> use by an agreement
> >> between MySubsidiaryCompany - Mc Society
> >>
> >> My first idea would be move UomConversionDated on single pk
> >> uomConversionDatedId but I prefer to adding a new entity like :
> >>
> >> UomConvSource
> >>  uomConvSourceId *
> >>  uomId
> >>  uomIdTo
> >>  fromDate
> >>  thruDate
> >>  conversionFactor
> >>  customMethodId
> >>  decimalScale
> >>  roundingMode
> >>  purposeEnumId
> >>
> >> And :
> >> AgreementUomConvSourceAppl
> >>  agreementId *
> >>  uomConvSourceId *
> >>
> >> With this, I will do add helper service to resolve the conversion rate
> >> from a context with the step :
> >>  * scanning Agreement
> >>  * scanning UomConversionDated
> >>  * scanning UomConversion
> >>
> >> Any remarks and suggest are welcome as usual ;)
> >>
> >> --
> >> #jeSuisCharlie (et j'emmerde les lobbotomisés)
> >> logoNrd <http://nereide.fr/>
> >>         Nicolas Malin
> >> Responsable Interplanétaire de la reproduction des crevettes licorne en
> >> apesanteur astral
> >> [hidden email]
> >> 3bis rue des Isles 37270 VERETZ 02 47 50 30 54
> >>
> >> Apache OFBiz <http://ofbiz.apache.org/> | ofbiz-fr <
> >> http://www.ofbiz-fr.org/> | | réseau LE <
> http://www.libre-entreprise.org/
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
>

[Pierre Smits]

On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 11:27 AM, Gavin Mabie <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Check https://openexchangerates.org/
>
> They have a real-time exchange rates & currency conversion JSON API.  Free
> for developers, but I think companies have to pay.
>

A solution to use such functionality in OFBiz could be considered as an
optional add-on.


>
> Gavin
>

Regards,


Pierre Smits

*ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com/>*
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com

[Gavin Mabie-2]

Yes -  it was suggested as an option.

On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 12:35 PM, Pierre Smits <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 11:27 AM, Gavin Mabie <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Check https://openexchangerates.org/
> >
> > They have a real-time exchange rates & currency conversion JSON API.
> Free
> > for developers, but I think companies have to pay.
> >
>
> A solution to use such functionality in OFBiz could be considered as an
> optional add-on.
>
>
> >
> > Gavin
> >
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Pierre Smits
>
> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com/>*
> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> Services and Retail & Trade
> http://www.orrtiz.com
>

[Jacopo Cappellato-4]

Hi Nicolas,

your definition of the UomConvSource looks good to me; my only concern would be that of introducing an entity that duplicates most of the data of UomConversionDated; so maybe I would be more inclined to modifying the existing UomConversionDated entity as you have described.

Jacopo

On Jan 13, 2015, at 4:32 PM, Nicolas Malin <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> With the current customer project I need to manage some currency conversion rate during a period, a purpose and between two party.
> The main case is the Euro company who work with American Supplier and sign a agreement exchange rate to stabilize their invoicing and payment instead of follow the stock exchange.
>
> At this time the first two has covered by UomConversionDated, but nothing is present two indicate what is my currency conversion rate with an other company.
>
> It's easy to solve with Agreement entity, a dedicate agreementTypeId and add an assoc entity AgreementUomConversionDatedAppl.
> An other problem, it's impossible to define different rate for the same currency at the same date like this
> uomId uomIdTo fromDate                   rate
>     EUR       USD 2015-01-01 00:00:00  1.200 -> use by an agreement between MyCompany - Mc Company
>     EUR       USD 2015-01-01 00:00:00  1.258 -> use by an agreement between MyCompany - Mc Society
>     EUR       USD 2015-01-01 00:00:00  1.248 -> use by an agreement between MySubsidiaryCompany - Mc Society
>
> My first idea would be move UomConversionDated on single pk uomConversionDatedId but I prefer to adding a new entity like :
>
> UomConvSource
>  uomConvSourceId *
>  uomId
>  uomIdTo
>  fromDate
>  thruDate
>  conversionFactor
>  customMethodId
>  decimalScale
>  roundingMode
>  purposeEnumId
>
> And :
> AgreementUomConvSourceAppl
>  agreementId *
>  uomConvSourceId *
>
> With this, I will do add helper service to resolve the conversion rate from a context with the step :
>  * scanning Agreement
>  * scanning UomConversionDated
>  * scanning UomConversion
>
> Any remarks and suggest are welcome as usual ;)
>
> --
> #jeSuisCharlie (et j'emmerde les lobbotomisés)
> <siteon0.jpg>
> Nicolas Malin
> Responsable Interplanétaire de la reproduction des crevettes licorne en apesanteur astral
> [hidden email]
> 3bis rue des Isles 37270 VERETZ 02 47 50 30 54
> Apache OFBiz |  ofbiz-fr |  | réseau LE

[Pierre Smits]

Nicolas,

I am inclined to agree with Jacopo. But a replacement of UomConversionDated
by a new one (that caters to the new requirements) is also an option.

Be aware that both modification and replacement has impact on depending
services and screens/forms.

Best regards,

Pierre Smits

*ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com

[Adrian Crum-3]

In addition, preset exchange rates exist for calculating taxes:

http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/International-Taxpayers/Yearly-Average-Currency-Exchange-Rates


Adrian Crum
Sandglass Software
www.sandglass-software.com

On 1/14/2015 2:17 AM, Pierre Smits wrote:

> Nicolas,
>
> Please research IAS documents regarding foreign exchange rates and their
> effects.
>
> Foreign exchange rates have a limited lifespan and each has a specific
> application and/or purpose in the accounting and financing domain of an
> organisation. And at any given moment in time multiple can exist for a
> given combination (e.g. EUR<>USD) within these domains. And regarding GCR
> all need to be registered and reported.
>
> Consider the following basics:
>
>     - the agreed-upon (internal) exchange rate for the financial reporting
>     purpose (e.g. used in the gl transactions) of a given reporting period
>     - the exchange rate for the day (spot rate)
>
> That can lead to the following registrations
>
>     - the exchange rate applicable at the start date of the agreement (9 out
>     of 10 times this is the same as the agreed-upon internal exchange rate),
>     for contract valuation purposes. If the agreement duration is longer than
>     the financial reporting period, one sees that the valuation of the
>     agreement changes over time.
>     - the agreed upon exchange rate at the start date of the financing
>     arrangement of the agreement. Think of an agreement negotiated in YEN
>     (internal currency in EUR), and financing instruments applied regarding
>     future payments (e.g. in USD, GBP).
>     - The official exchange rate applicable for the currency at the moment
>     of invoicing in relation to the country of delivery. Think delivery in a
>     currency deprived country where the government dictates that x % of the
>     payment must be in their currency of choice.
>
> And even more can be in play....
>
> The scenario outlined by Hans is a optimistic, yet limited viewpoint on
> reality. Your use-case is a real-life scenario and if we want OFBiz to be
> usable in more settings than only in those (perceived by the few), we need
> to address and resolve the issue.
>
> Please open an improvement issue in JIRA, so that we can keep the aspects
> regarding discussion and action points (sub-tasks, dependencies, etc)
> together.
>
> Regards
>
> Pierre Smits
>
> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> Services and Retail & Trade
> http://www.orrtiz.com
>
> On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 1:58 AM, Hans Bakker <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> Why fix the conversion rate?, just agree on the foreign currency
>> amount.....Invoices are always in the currency of the customer...and so is
>> the payment, only inside the system the values are converted and should not
>> interest your customer ....
>>
>>
>> On 13/01/15 22:32, Nicolas Malin wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> With the current customer project I need to manage some currency
>>> conversion rate during a period, a purpose and between two party.
>>> The main case is the Euro company who work with American Supplier and
>>> sign a agreement exchange rate to stabilize their invoicing and payment
>>> instead of follow the stock exchange.
>>>
>>> At this time the first two has covered by UomConversionDated, but nothing
>>> is present two indicate what is my currency conversion rate with an other
>>> company.
>>>
>>> It's easy to solve with Agreement entity, a dedicate agreementTypeId and
>>> add an assoc entity AgreementUomConversionDatedAppl.
>>> An other problem, it's impossible to define different rate for the same
>>> currency at the same date like this
>>> uomId uomIdTo fromDate                   rate
>>>      EUR       USD 2015-01-01 00:00:00  1.200 -> use by an agreement
>>> between MyCompany - Mc Company
>>>      EUR       USD 2015-01-01 00:00:00  1.258 -> use by an agreement
>>> between MyCompany - Mc Society
>>>      EUR       USD 2015-01-01 00:00:00  1.248 -> use by an agreement
>>> between MySubsidiaryCompany - Mc Society
>>>
>>> My first idea would be move UomConversionDated on single pk
>>> uomConversionDatedId but I prefer to adding a new entity like :
>>>
>>> UomConvSource
>>>   uomConvSourceId *
>>>   uomId
>>>   uomIdTo
>>>   fromDate
>>>   thruDate
>>>   conversionFactor
>>>   customMethodId
>>>   decimalScale
>>>   roundingMode
>>>   purposeEnumId
>>>
>>> And :
>>> AgreementUomConvSourceAppl
>>>   agreementId *
>>>   uomConvSourceId *
>>>
>>> With this, I will do add helper service to resolve the conversion rate
>>> from a context with the step :
>>>   * scanning Agreement
>>>   * scanning UomConversionDated
>>>   * scanning UomConversion
>>>
>>> Any remarks and suggest are welcome as usual ;)
>>>
>>> --
>>> #jeSuisCharlie (et j'emmerde les lobbotomisés)
>>> logoNrd <http://nereide.fr/>
>>>          Nicolas Malin
>>> Responsable Interplanétaire de la reproduction des crevettes licorne en
>>> apesanteur astral
>>> [hidden email]
>>> 3bis rue des Isles 37270 VERETZ 02 47 50 30 54
>>>
>>> Apache OFBiz <http://ofbiz.apache.org/> | ofbiz-fr <
>>> http://www.ofbiz-fr.org/> | | réseau LE <http://www.libre-entreprise.org/
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>

[Pierre Smits]

Indeed another application/purpose of specific exchange rates. I am sure
the governments of many countries have such advice available to the public.

The organisation with presence (of legal entities) in various countries may
have to use all of them regarding local tax reporting.

Best regards,


Pierre Smits

*ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com

On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 3:28 PM, Adrian Crum <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> In addition, preset exchange rates exist for calculating taxes:
>
> http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/International-Taxpayers/Yearly-Average-
> Currency-Exchange-Rates
>
>
> Adrian Crum
> Sandglass Software
> www.sandglass-software.com
>
> On 1/14/2015 2:17 AM, Pierre Smits wrote:
>
>> Nicolas,
>>
>> Please research IAS documents regarding foreign exchange rates and their
>> effects.
>>
>> Foreign exchange rates have a limited lifespan and each has a specific
>> application and/or purpose in the accounting and financing domain of an
>> organisation. And at any given moment in time multiple can exist for a
>> given combination (e.g. EUR<>USD) within these domains. And regarding GCR
>> all need to be registered and reported.
>>
>> Consider the following basics:
>>
>>     - the agreed-upon (internal) exchange rate for the financial reporting
>>     purpose (e.g. used in the gl transactions) of a given reporting period
>>     - the exchange rate for the day (spot rate)
>>
>> That can lead to the following registrations
>>
>>     - the exchange rate applicable at the start date of the agreement (9
>> out
>>     of 10 times this is the same as the agreed-upon internal exchange
>> rate),
>>     for contract valuation purposes. If the agreement duration is longer
>> than
>>     the financial reporting period, one sees that the valuation of the
>>     agreement changes over time.
>>     - the agreed upon exchange rate at the start date of the financing
>>     arrangement of the agreement. Think of an agreement negotiated in YEN
>>     (internal currency in EUR), and financing instruments applied
>> regarding
>>     future payments (e.g. in USD, GBP).
>>     - The official exchange rate applicable for the currency at the moment
>>     of invoicing in relation to the country of delivery. Think delivery
>> in a
>>     currency deprived country where the government dictates that x % of
>> the
>>     payment must be in their currency of choice.
>>
>> And even more can be in play....
>>
>> The scenario outlined by Hans is a optimistic, yet limited viewpoint on
>> reality. Your use-case is a real-life scenario and if we want OFBiz to be
>> usable in more settings than only in those (perceived by the few), we need
>> to address and resolve the issue.
>>
>> Please open an improvement issue in JIRA, so that we can keep the aspects
>> regarding discussion and action points (sub-tasks, dependencies, etc)
>> together.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Pierre Smits
>>
>> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>>
>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>> Services and Retail & Trade
>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 1:58 AM, Hans Bakker <
>> [hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>  Why fix the conversion rate?, just agree on the foreign currency
>>> amount.....Invoices are always in the currency of the customer...and so
>>> is
>>> the payment, only inside the system the values are converted and should
>>> not
>>> interest your customer ....
>>>
>>>
>>> On 13/01/15 22:32, Nicolas Malin wrote:
>>>
>>>  Hi,
>>>>
>>>> With the current customer project I need to manage some currency
>>>> conversion rate during a period, a purpose and between two party.
>>>> The main case is the Euro company who work with American Supplier and
>>>> sign a agreement exchange rate to stabilize their invoicing and payment
>>>> instead of follow the stock exchange.
>>>>
>>>> At this time the first two has covered by UomConversionDated, but
>>>> nothing
>>>> is present two indicate what is my currency conversion rate with an
>>>> other
>>>> company.
>>>>
>>>> It's easy to solve with Agreement entity, a dedicate agreementTypeId and
>>>> add an assoc entity AgreementUomConversionDatedAppl.
>>>> An other problem, it's impossible to define different rate for the same
>>>> currency at the same date like this
>>>> uomId uomIdTo fromDate                   rate
>>>>      EUR       USD 2015-01-01 00:00:00  1.200 -> use by an agreement
>>>> between MyCompany - Mc Company
>>>>      EUR       USD 2015-01-01 00:00:00  1.258 -> use by an agreement
>>>> between MyCompany - Mc Society
>>>>      EUR       USD 2015-01-01 00:00:00  1.248 -> use by an agreement
>>>> between MySubsidiaryCompany - Mc Society
>>>>
>>>> My first idea would be move UomConversionDated on single pk
>>>> uomConversionDatedId but I prefer to adding a new entity like :
>>>>
>>>> UomConvSource
>>>>   uomConvSourceId *
>>>>   uomId
>>>>   uomIdTo
>>>>   fromDate
>>>>   thruDate
>>>>   conversionFactor
>>>>   customMethodId
>>>>   decimalScale
>>>>   roundingMode
>>>>   purposeEnumId
>>>>
>>>> And :
>>>> AgreementUomConvSourceAppl
>>>>   agreementId *
>>>>   uomConvSourceId *
>>>>
>>>> With this, I will do add helper service to resolve the conversion rate
>>>> from a context with the step :
>>>>   * scanning Agreement
>>>>   * scanning UomConversionDated
>>>>   * scanning UomConversion
>>>>
>>>> Any remarks and suggest are welcome as usual ;)
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> #jeSuisCharlie (et j'emmerde les lobbotomisés)
>>>> logoNrd <http://nereide.fr/>
>>>>          Nicolas Malin
>>>> Responsable Interplanétaire de la reproduction des crevettes licorne en
>>>> apesanteur astral
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> 3bis rue des Isles 37270 VERETZ 02 47 50 30 54
>>>>
>>>> Apache OFBiz <http://ofbiz.apache.org/> | ofbiz-fr <
>>>> http://www.ofbiz-fr.org/> | | réseau LE <http://www.libre-entreprise.
>>>> org/
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>

[Nicolas Malin-2]

Thanks all for your comments ! I'm really appreciate.

Some time, I think that I would be stop to work on financial component
... each time I finish to read lot of english financial documentation
and I'ts a pleasure (ironic)

I will read each document and sharing with the financial manager on my
currently project.

Nicolas

Le 14/01/2015 15:52, Pierre Smits a écrit :

> Indeed another application/purpose of specific exchange rates. I am sure
> the governments of many countries have such advice available to the public.
>
> The organisation with presence (of legal entities) in various countries may
> have to use all of them regarding local tax reporting.
>
> Best regards,
>
>
> Pierre Smits
>
> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> Services and Retail & Trade
> http://www.orrtiz.com
>
> On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 3:28 PM, Adrian Crum <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> In addition, preset exchange rates exist for calculating taxes:
>>
>> http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/International-Taxpayers/Yearly-Average-
>> Currency-Exchange-Rates
>>
>>
>> Adrian Crum
>> Sandglass Software
>> www.sandglass-software.com
>>
>> On 1/14/2015 2:17 AM, Pierre Smits wrote:
>>
>>> Nicolas,
>>>
>>> Please research IAS documents regarding foreign exchange rates and their
>>> effects.
>>>
>>> Foreign exchange rates have a limited lifespan and each has a specific
>>> application and/or purpose in the accounting and financing domain of an
>>> organisation. And at any given moment in time multiple can exist for a
>>> given combination (e.g. EUR<>USD) within these domains. And regarding GCR
>>> all need to be registered and reported.
>>>
>>> Consider the following basics:
>>>
>>>      - the agreed-upon (internal) exchange rate for the financial reporting
>>>      purpose (e.g. used in the gl transactions) of a given reporting period
>>>      - the exchange rate for the day (spot rate)
>>>
>>> That can lead to the following registrations
>>>
>>>      - the exchange rate applicable at the start date of the agreement (9
>>> out
>>>      of 10 times this is the same as the agreed-upon internal exchange
>>> rate),
>>>      for contract valuation purposes. If the agreement duration is longer
>>> than
>>>      the financial reporting period, one sees that the valuation of the
>>>      agreement changes over time.
>>>      - the agreed upon exchange rate at the start date of the financing
>>>      arrangement of the agreement. Think of an agreement negotiated in YEN
>>>      (internal currency in EUR), and financing instruments applied
>>> regarding
>>>      future payments (e.g. in USD, GBP).
>>>      - The official exchange rate applicable for the currency at the moment
>>>      of invoicing in relation to the country of delivery. Think delivery
>>> in a
>>>      currency deprived country where the government dictates that x % of
>>> the
>>>      payment must be in their currency of choice.
>>>
>>> And even more can be in play....
>>>
>>> The scenario outlined by Hans is a optimistic, yet limited viewpoint on
>>> reality. Your use-case is a real-life scenario and if we want OFBiz to be
>>> usable in more settings than only in those (perceived by the few), we need
>>> to address and resolve the issue.
>>>
>>> Please open an improvement issue in JIRA, so that we can keep the aspects
>>> regarding discussion and action points (sub-tasks, dependencies, etc)
>>> together.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> Pierre Smits
>>>
>>> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>>>
>>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>> Services and Retail & Trade
>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 1:58 AM, Hans Bakker <
>>> [hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>   Why fix the conversion rate?, just agree on the foreign currency
>>>> amount.....Invoices are always in the currency of the customer...and so
>>>> is
>>>> the payment, only inside the system the values are converted and should
>>>> not
>>>> interest your customer ....
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 13/01/15 22:32, Nicolas Malin wrote:
>>>>
>>>>   Hi,
>>>>> With the current customer project I need to manage some currency
>>>>> conversion rate during a period, a purpose and between two party.
>>>>> The main case is the Euro company who work with American Supplier and
>>>>> sign a agreement exchange rate to stabilize their invoicing and payment
>>>>> instead of follow the stock exchange.
>>>>>
>>>>> At this time the first two has covered by UomConversionDated, but
>>>>> nothing
>>>>> is present two indicate what is my currency conversion rate with an
>>>>> other
>>>>> company.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's easy to solve with Agreement entity, a dedicate agreementTypeId and
>>>>> add an assoc entity AgreementUomConversionDatedAppl.
>>>>> An other problem, it's impossible to define different rate for the same
>>>>> currency at the same date like this
>>>>> uomId uomIdTo fromDate                   rate
>>>>>       EUR       USD 2015-01-01 00:00:00  1.200 -> use by an agreement
>>>>> between MyCompany - Mc Company
>>>>>       EUR       USD 2015-01-01 00:00:00  1.258 -> use by an agreement
>>>>> between MyCompany - Mc Society
>>>>>       EUR       USD 2015-01-01 00:00:00  1.248 -> use by an agreement
>>>>> between MySubsidiaryCompany - Mc Society
>>>>>
>>>>> My first idea would be move UomConversionDated on single pk
>>>>> uomConversionDatedId but I prefer to adding a new entity like :
>>>>>
>>>>> UomConvSource
>>>>>    uomConvSourceId *
>>>>>    uomId
>>>>>    uomIdTo
>>>>>    fromDate
>>>>>    thruDate
>>>>>    conversionFactor
>>>>>    customMethodId
>>>>>    decimalScale
>>>>>    roundingMode
>>>>>    purposeEnumId
>>>>>
>>>>> And :
>>>>> AgreementUomConvSourceAppl
>>>>>    agreementId *
>>>>>    uomConvSourceId *
>>>>>
>>>>> With this, I will do add helper service to resolve the conversion rate
>>>>> from a context with the step :
>>>>>    * scanning Agreement
>>>>>    * scanning UomConversionDated
>>>>>    * scanning UomConversion
>>>>>
>>>>> Any remarks and suggest are welcome as usual ;)
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> #jeSuisCharlie (et j'emmerde les lobbotomisés)
>>>>> logoNrd <http://nereide.fr/>
>>>>>           Nicolas Malin
>>>>> Responsable Interplanétaire de la reproduction des crevettes licorne en
>>>>> apesanteur astral
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> 3bis rue des Isles 37270 VERETZ 02 47 50 30 54
>>>>>
>>>>> Apache OFBiz <http://ofbiz.apache.org/> | ofbiz-fr <
>>>>> http://www.ofbiz-fr.org/> | | réseau LE <http://www.libre-entreprise.
>>>>> org/
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>

[Pierre Smits]

Nicolas,

That is surely the best way to go. Use the references to show that you are
knowledgable, but ensure that the financial manager is involved and owner
of the issue.

Best regards,

Pierre Smits

*ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com

On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 3:00 PM, Nicolas Malin <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Thanks all for your comments ! I'm really appreciate.
>
> Some time, I think that I would be stop to work on financial component ...
> each time I finish to read lot of english financial documentation and I'ts
> a pleasure (ironic)
>
> I will read each document and sharing with the financial manager on my
> currently project.
>
> Nicolas
>
> Le 14/01/2015 15:52, Pierre Smits a écrit :
>
>> Indeed another application/purpose of specific exchange rates. I am sure
>> the governments of many countries have such advice available to the
>> public.
>>
>> The organisation with presence (of legal entities) in various countries
>> may
>> have to use all of them regarding local tax reporting.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>>
>> Pierre Smits
>>
>> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>> Services and Retail & Trade
>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 3:28 PM, Adrian Crum <
>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>  In addition, preset exchange rates exist for calculating taxes:
>>>
>>> http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/International-Taxpayers/Yearly-Average-
>>> Currency-Exchange-Rates
>>>
>>>
>>> Adrian Crum
>>> Sandglass Software
>>> www.sandglass-software.com
>>>
>>> On 1/14/2015 2:17 AM, Pierre Smits wrote:
>>>
>>>  Nicolas,
>>>>
>>>> Please research IAS documents regarding foreign exchange rates and their
>>>> effects.
>>>>
>>>> Foreign exchange rates have a limited lifespan and each has a specific
>>>> application and/or purpose in the accounting and financing domain of an
>>>> organisation. And at any given moment in time multiple can exist for a
>>>> given combination (e.g. EUR<>USD) within these domains. And regarding
>>>> GCR
>>>> all need to be registered and reported.
>>>>
>>>> Consider the following basics:
>>>>
>>>>      - the agreed-upon (internal) exchange rate for the financial
>>>> reporting
>>>>      purpose (e.g. used in the gl transactions) of a given reporting
>>>> period
>>>>      - the exchange rate for the day (spot rate)
>>>>
>>>> That can lead to the following registrations
>>>>
>>>>      - the exchange rate applicable at the start date of the agreement
>>>> (9
>>>> out
>>>>      of 10 times this is the same as the agreed-upon internal exchange
>>>> rate),
>>>>      for contract valuation purposes. If the agreement duration is
>>>> longer
>>>> than
>>>>      the financial reporting period, one sees that the valuation of the
>>>>      agreement changes over time.
>>>>      - the agreed upon exchange rate at the start date of the financing
>>>>      arrangement of the agreement. Think of an agreement negotiated in
>>>> YEN
>>>>      (internal currency in EUR), and financing instruments applied
>>>> regarding
>>>>      future payments (e.g. in USD, GBP).
>>>>      - The official exchange rate applicable for the currency at the
>>>> moment
>>>>      of invoicing in relation to the country of delivery. Think delivery
>>>> in a
>>>>      currency deprived country where the government dictates that x % of
>>>> the
>>>>      payment must be in their currency of choice.
>>>>
>>>> And even more can be in play....
>>>>
>>>> The scenario outlined by Hans is a optimistic, yet limited viewpoint on
>>>> reality. Your use-case is a real-life scenario and if we want OFBiz to
>>>> be
>>>> usable in more settings than only in those (perceived by the few), we
>>>> need
>>>> to address and resolve the issue.
>>>>
>>>> Please open an improvement issue in JIRA, so that we can keep the
>>>> aspects
>>>> regarding discussion and action points (sub-tasks, dependencies, etc)
>>>> together.
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>> Pierre Smits
>>>>
>>>> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>>>>
>>>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
>>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>>> Services and Retail & Trade
>>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 1:58 AM, Hans Bakker <
>>>> [hidden email]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>   Why fix the conversion rate?, just agree on the foreign currency
>>>>
>>>>> amount.....Invoices are always in the currency of the customer...and so
>>>>> is
>>>>> the payment, only inside the system the values are converted and should
>>>>> not
>>>>> interest your customer ....
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 13/01/15 22:32, Nicolas Malin wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>   Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>>> With the current customer project I need to manage some currency
>>>>>> conversion rate during a period, a purpose and between two party.
>>>>>> The main case is the Euro company who work with American Supplier and
>>>>>> sign a agreement exchange rate to stabilize their invoicing and
>>>>>> payment
>>>>>> instead of follow the stock exchange.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At this time the first two has covered by UomConversionDated, but
>>>>>> nothing
>>>>>> is present two indicate what is my currency conversion rate with an
>>>>>> other
>>>>>> company.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's easy to solve with Agreement entity, a dedicate agreementTypeId
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> add an assoc entity AgreementUomConversionDatedAppl.
>>>>>> An other problem, it's impossible to define different rate for the
>>>>>> same
>>>>>> currency at the same date like this
>>>>>> uomId uomIdTo fromDate                   rate
>>>>>>       EUR       USD 2015-01-01 00:00:00  1.200 -> use by an agreement
>>>>>> between MyCompany - Mc Company
>>>>>>       EUR       USD 2015-01-01 00:00:00  1.258 -> use by an agreement
>>>>>> between MyCompany - Mc Society
>>>>>>       EUR       USD 2015-01-01 00:00:00  1.248 -> use by an agreement
>>>>>> between MySubsidiaryCompany - Mc Society
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My first idea would be move UomConversionDated on single pk
>>>>>> uomConversionDatedId but I prefer to adding a new entity like :
>>>>>>
>>>>>> UomConvSource
>>>>>>    uomConvSourceId *
>>>>>>    uomId
>>>>>>    uomIdTo
>>>>>>    fromDate
>>>>>>    thruDate
>>>>>>    conversionFactor
>>>>>>    customMethodId
>>>>>>    decimalScale
>>>>>>    roundingMode
>>>>>>    purposeEnumId
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And :
>>>>>> AgreementUomConvSourceAppl
>>>>>>    agreementId *
>>>>>>    uomConvSourceId *
>>>>>>
>>>>>> With this, I will do add helper service to resolve the conversion rate
>>>>>> from a context with the step :
>>>>>>    * scanning Agreement
>>>>>>    * scanning UomConversionDated
>>>>>>    * scanning UomConversion
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Any remarks and suggest are welcome as usual ;)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> #jeSuisCharlie (et j'emmerde les lobbotomisés)
>>>>>> logoNrd <http://nereide.fr/>
>>>>>>           Nicolas Malin
>>>>>> Responsable Interplanétaire de la reproduction des crevettes licorne
>>>>>> en
>>>>>> apesanteur astral
>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>> 3bis rue des Isles 37270 VERETZ 02 47 50 30 54
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Apache OFBiz <http://ofbiz.apache.org/> | ofbiz-fr <
>>>>>> http://www.ofbiz-fr.org/> | | réseau LE <http://www.libre-entreprise.
>>>>>> org/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>

[Nicolas Malin-2]

Le 14/01/2015 15:08, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
> Hi Nicolas,
>
> your definition of the UomConvSource looks good to me; my only concern would be that of introducing an entity that duplicates most of the data of UomConversionDated; so maybe I would be more inclined to modifying the existing UomConversionDated entity as you have described.
Hi Jacopo, you spot exactly the more difficult point on my proposition.
It's easy to change the UomConversionDated's pk :

  uomId *
  uomIdTo *
  fromDate *

To

  uomConversionDatedId *
  uomId
  uomIdTo
  fromDate

Update service and screen is like walk around a grassland in with the sheep.
Create the migration service is funny to complete missing data ... but
convert the pk constraint on the database model for existing site ... arf.
I can create an sql script and call directly the sql parser, I doubt on
the quality and the respect of

{quote
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBADMIN/OFBiz+Contributors+Best+Practices}
Deprecating entities
Whenever we deprecate an entity in OFBiz there are certain things that
MUST be done or all committers should reject the patch:

 1. rename the entity to deprecate by adding an "Old" prefix to it, then
    specify a table-name attribute on the entity so it still points to
    the same table in the database
 2. create a new entity the replaces the old one, and comment on that fact
 3. Implement a service to move data from the old/deprecated entity to
    the new one

{quote}

With luck, this entity haven't relation fk constraint with other entity.

Clearly I'm not happy to create a new entity with copy/past field, it's
a simple and security solution :! , so your suggest is precious to have
the better compromise.

I can try to test a migration (but only on derby and postgres)

Nicolas

>
> Jacopo
>
> On Jan 13, 2015, at 4:32 PM, Nicolas Malin <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> With the current customer project I need to manage some currency conversion rate during a period, a purpose and between two party.
>> The main case is the Euro company who work with American Supplier and sign a agreement exchange rate to stabilize their invoicing and payment instead of follow the stock exchange.
>>
>> At this time the first two has covered by UomConversionDated, but nothing is present two indicate what is my currency conversion rate with an other company.
>>
>> It's easy to solve with Agreement entity, a dedicate agreementTypeId and add an assoc entity AgreementUomConversionDatedAppl.
>> An other problem, it's impossible to define different rate for the same currency at the same date like this
>> uomId uomIdTo fromDate                   rate
>>      EUR       USD 2015-01-01 00:00:00  1.200 -> use by an agreement between MyCompany - Mc Company
>>      EUR       USD 2015-01-01 00:00:00  1.258 -> use by an agreement between MyCompany - Mc Society
>>      EUR       USD 2015-01-01 00:00:00  1.248 -> use by an agreement between MySubsidiaryCompany - Mc Society
>>
>> My first idea would be move UomConversionDated on single pk uomConversionDatedId but I prefer to adding a new entity like :
>>
>> UomConvSource
>>   uomConvSourceId *
>>   uomId
>>   uomIdTo
>>   fromDate
>>   thruDate
>>   conversionFactor
>>   customMethodId
>>   decimalScale
>>   roundingMode
>>   purposeEnumId
>>
>> And :
>> AgreementUomConvSourceAppl
>>   agreementId *
>>   uomConvSourceId *
>>
>> With this, I will do add helper service to resolve the conversion rate from a context with the step :
>>   * scanning Agreement
>>   * scanning UomConversionDated
>>   * scanning UomConversion
>>
>> Any remarks and suggest are welcome as usual ;)
>>
>> --
>> #jeSuisCharlie (et j'emmerde les lobbotomisés)
>> <siteon0.jpg>
>> Nicolas Malin
>> Responsable Interplanétaire de la reproduction des crevettes licorne en apesanteur astral
>> [hidden email]
>> 3bis rue des Isles 37270 VERETZ 02 47 50 30 54
>> Apache OFBiz |  ofbiz-fr |  | réseau LE

[Nicolas Malin-2]

Le 14/01/2015 15:18, Pierre Smits a écrit :
> Be aware that both modification and replacement has impact on depending
> services and screens/forms.
Don't worries pierre :) it's my job. I do some error but I try to cure
myself.

Nicolas