Questions about the future of ofbiz

[Scott.]

Hi all,

I’m at the beginning stages of a long process to make ofbiz the core behind my business. I see that there is a long way for me to go before my people or I start using it in a meaningful way because of all the changes I will want. That said, I can clearly see what the future will be for my business and ofbiz.

One of the things that pushes me is the thought that my employees and I will be able to use a single integrated application from front end website to the double entry accounting. What I really want to know is how far people (especially the developers) see ofbiz going? For example, would it be possible to integrate something like Zimbra email (http://www.zimbra.com) right into the core of ofbiz? I’m not sure about the license issues, etc but I would love to see it.

Am I too naïve to think that my entire business could be run from one core application?

Thanks in advance.

[Walter Vaughan]

Scott A wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I’m at the beginning stages of a long process to make ofbiz the core behind
> my business. I see that there is a long way for me to go before my people or
> I start using it in a meaningful way because of all the changes I will want.

Are you talking about customer facing changes or internal operations? As far as
back room operation changes, are you talking about a lot of little stuff or a
lot of big stuff.

We're doing the same thing right now. One thing that has guided us so far is
"will this change help other companies and make the project better?" ofBiz is
designed to have a fully customized customer facing side, and fairly standard
back office systems. You don't want to run your company updating to the latest
version every 4 hours, but you also don't want a so customized version of
AngloLimited ERP that it could never be updated again from the project.

List the changes you think you need. Perhaps there are better "best practices"
to accomplish them. They may be things that developers are working on. Some
things may be needed  & simple and really should be made into JIRA issues
(basically a bulletin board that the ofBiz developers use to know who is working
on what and what needs fixing) and others may be something that peaks the
interest of someone else who might think "Hum, I never thought of that, we
really need that." Others may be pie in the sky. But even pie in the sky is
*good*. It pushes the community's self imposed boundaries.

The power in ofBiz is the fact that today we walk on roads paved by others, and
as we type here others are building new roads. If we contribute in building even
  more roads, we all benefit from the stronger infrastructure. Next year ofBiz
will be better than it is today. In 2017 it will be even better because of
shared experiences and talents.

> Am I too naïve to think that my entire business could be run from one core
> application?

That's kinda the whole idea of an ERP :)

Just remember you're not alone.

--
Walter

[snowch]

Scott,

I think what you are looking for is what the java portlet API (JSR  
168) tries to address.  Rather than trying to make one monolithic  
application, the portlet API lets you integrate many disparate apps.  
Applications that are portlet API compatible will run smoothly and  
seamlessly alongside other portlet apps as if they are all one app.

For some examples, take a look on google for liferay portlet  
container and integration to apps such as alfresco document  
management.    Also, follow this link for the details of pentaho  
portal integration - http://jira.pentaho.org:8080/confluence/display/ 
PentahoDoc/06.+Portal+Demo

I don't think ofbiz will run from a portlet container at the moment,  
but I for one would love to see portlet compatibility added to ofbiz!

For a nice open source portlet container, check out liferay.

Cheers,

Chris



On 5 Apr 2007, at 19:27, Scott A wrote:

>
> Hi all,
>
> I’m at the beginning stages of a long process to make ofbiz the  
> core behind
> my business. I see that there is a long way for me to go before my  
> people or
> I start using it in a meaningful way because of all the changes I  
> will want.
> That said, I can clearly see what the future will be for my  
> business and
> ofbiz.
>
> One of the things that pushes me is the thought that my employees  
> and I will
> be able to use a single integrated application from front end  
> website to the
> double entry accounting. What I really want to know is how far people
> (especially the developers) see ofbiz going? For example, would it be
> possible to integrate something like Zimbra email (http://
> www.zimbra.com)
> right into the core of ofbiz? I’m not sure about the license  
> issues, etc but
> I would love to see it.
>
> Am I too naïve to think that my entire business could be run from  
> one core
> application?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Questions-about- 
> the-future-of-ofbiz-tf3532957.html#a9860645
> Sent from the OFBiz - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
> --
> This message has been scanned for viruses and
> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
> believed to be clean.
>
>

--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.

[BJ Freeman]

as a independent consultant, I add many features to ofbiz.
its core is substantial.
I have clients that are adding custom stuff almost monthly.
Like interfacing to Shipper, suppliers directly for order processing.

as far as mail, ofbiz uses java mail to get emails.
as of yet there is no email like UI but there is way for sending and
receiving emails.
You will read about communication events, that is what handles emails.
Obiz have the ability to filter emails as they come in and redirect them
to specific background processing, like the UPS tracking emails. The
processing though is not part of the ofbiz core at this time.



Scott A sent the following on 4/5/2007 10:27 AM:

> Hi all,
>
> I’m at the beginning stages of a long process to make ofbiz the core behind
> my business. I see that there is a long way for me to go before my people or
> I start using it in a meaningful way because of all the changes I will want.
> That said, I can clearly see what the future will be for my business and
> ofbiz.
>
> One of the things that pushes me is the thought that my employees and I will
> be able to use a single integrated application from front end website to the
> double entry accounting. What I really want to know is how far people
> (especially the developers) see ofbiz going? For example, would it be
> possible to integrate something like Zimbra email (http://www.zimbra.com)
> right into the core of ofbiz? I’m not sure about the license issues, etc but
> I would love to see it.
>
> Am I too naïve to think that my entire business could be run from one core
> application?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>

[Vikrant.Rathore]

Hi Scott,

Following is my input:
1. With reference to integrating ofbiz with 3rd party application it won't be very hard as its purely and SOA architecture and provides you multiple ways of integration and in particular with Zimbra it should be pretty easy. If you use zimlets kind of integration its pretty easy. Obviously you would not like to bundle Zimbra with ofbiz otherwise it would be an overkill :) as both are 2 different beasts. Its better to keep them separate and integrate them via Zimlets.
2. The interesting thing would be to integrate ofbiz with portal server like liferay, exo or something similar as you can provide a single window for users.
3. Integrate a BI engine may be JasperSoft or Pentaho using JSR-170 with the same portal where you have ofbiz. So users just log on to a single application and can access everything they need.
4. Surely you can run an entire business from just ofbiz indeed you can even run the whole business from just one component of ofbiz e.g. CRM, Inventory management, order management, catalog management, CMS, eCommerce. There are few companies I know are only using specific modules of ofbiz indeed.

Thanks
With best regards,
Vikrant


-----Original Message-----
From: Scott A [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2007 2:39 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Questions about the future of ofbiz


Hi all,

I'm at the beginning stages of a long process to make ofbiz the core behind
my business. I see that there is a long way for me to go before my people or
I start using it in a meaningful way because of all the changes I will want.
That said, I can clearly see what the future will be for my business and
ofbiz.

One of the things that pushes me is the thought that my employees and I will
be able to use a single integrated application from front end website to the
double entry accounting. What I really want to know is how far people
(especially the developers) see ofbiz going? For example, would it be
possible to integrate something like Zimbra email (http://www.zimbra.com)
right into the core of ofbiz? I'm not sure about the license issues, etc but
I would love to see it.

Am I too naïve to think that my entire business could be run from one core
application?

Thanks in advance.

--
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Questions-about-the-future-of-ofbiz-tf3532959.html#a9860664
Sent from the OFBiz - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

[jonwimp]

Scott,

If you're doing it for your own use, licensing issues shouldn't be an obstacle.

As for integrating stuff with OFBiz, in short: You can, just because it's open source!

I've integrated many stuff into OFBiz already. Right now, the Widget module we have works very
much like Windows UIs. Lots of AJAX to get that working, though. But frameworks like Dojo and
Livegrid are already there to help you out (currently way underused in OFBiz).

Other pluggable frameworks include email applications (like the one you mentioned), telecoms
stuff, etc.

Long journey, it is. But you'll see frequent and incremental progress throughout, not wait for 2
years to implement a "dream machine". Retain a few IT guys, get familiar with OFBiz over time
(take Christopher Snow for eg, he's making good progress). Love it (OFBiz), and it'll love you back.

As mentioned in some replies to your post here, there are many businesses who add new
functionality to their OFBiz implementation almost every month! Try getting a proprietary
closed-source application to change on a monthly basis to suit your changing needs.

You're on the right track. I've looked at other ERP frameworks already. This is as good as it
gets. I wouldn't name names, but I think OFBiz is still the most open framework out there; there
are open source ERP frameworks that require you to pay substantial amounts of money and training
costs to pick up. (Christopher Snow, I know it feels like the ML isn't giving us A LOT of help,
but it really is the best I've seen thus far.)

I see OFBiz going a long way. It's still early now, so you do see neck-to-neck competition from
other frameworks. And yes, all the available options have the "not-quite-finished" feel to them at
this early stage. But the mid-term (1-2 years) will be telling, and I suspect OFBiz will pull ahead.

Jonathon

Scott A wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I’m at the beginning stages of a long process to make ofbiz the core behind
> my business. I see that there is a long way for me to go before my people or
> I start using it in a meaningful way because of all the changes I will want.
> That said, I can clearly see what the future will be for my business and
> ofbiz.
>
> One of the things that pushes me is the thought that my employees and I will
> be able to use a single integrated application from front end website to the
> double entry accounting. What I really want to know is how far people
> (especially the developers) see ofbiz going? For example, would it be
> possible to integrate something like Zimbra email (http://www.zimbra.com)
> right into the core of ofbiz? I’m not sure about the license issues, etc but
> I would love to see it.
>
> Am I too naïve to think that my entire business could be run from one core
> application?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>

[Scott.]

I have some help from some service providers setting up the system and we've already started to work on the gui which includes Ajax for easier use. There are also many other options I'd like to have for my business and that hopefully I could give back to the ofbiz community too.

Do you guys have any kind of bounty system or a wish list where likeminded people could collaborate and get things done at a quicker pace?

For example, I'd like to see a good CRM in the core of ofbiz with something like zimbra being used for the calendaring and email. If this were even feasible and there were likeminded people who would be interested, then we could pool our resources and time, etc.

Any suggestions?

BJ Freeman wrote

as a independent consultant, I add many features to ofbiz.
its core is substantial.
I have clients that are adding custom stuff almost monthly.
Like interfacing to Shipper, suppliers directly for order processing.

as far as mail, ofbiz uses java mail to get emails.
as of yet there is no email like UI but there is way for sending and
receiving emails.
You will read about communication events, that is what handles emails.
Obiz have the ability to filter emails as they come in and redirect them
to specific background processing, like the UPS tracking emails. The
processing though is not part of the ofbiz core at this time.



Scott A sent the following on 4/5/2007 10:27 AM:
> Hi all,
>
> I’m at the beginning stages of a long process to make ofbiz the core behind
> my business. I see that there is a long way for me to go before my people or
> I start using it in a meaningful way because of all the changes I will want.
> That said, I can clearly see what the future will be for my business and
> ofbiz.
>
> One of the things that pushes me is the thought that my employees and I will
> be able to use a single integrated application from front end website to the
> double entry accounting. What I really want to know is how far people
> (especially the developers) see ofbiz going? For example, would it be
> possible to integrate something like Zimbra email (http://www.zimbra.com)
> right into the core of ofbiz? I’m not sure about the license issues, etc but
> I would love to see it.
>
> Am I too naïve to think that my entire business could be run from one core
> application?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>

[David E Jones]

On Apr 6, 2007, at 10:53 AM, Scott A wrote:

> I have some help from some service providers setting up the system  
> and we've
> already started to work on the gui which includes Ajax for easier  
> use. There
> are also many other options I'd like to have for my business and that
> hopefully I could give back to the ofbiz community too.
>
> Do you guys have any kind of bounty system or a wish list where  
> likeminded
> people could collaborate and get things done at a quicker pace?
>
> For example, I'd like to see a good CRM in the core of ofbiz with  
> something
> like zimbra being used for the calendaring and email. If this were  
> even
> feasible and there were likeminded people who would be interested,  
> then we
> could pool our resources and time, etc.
>
> Any suggestions?

We don't have a bounty and bid system setup right now, but hopefully  
soon or at some point some commercial entity in the OFBiz community  
will do just that. It is something we have talked about, and even  
using OFBiz to manage it, since about year 2 of the project and I  
think it would be a really great thing for the project, and for  
everyone who participates in both funding and developing different  
things.

Right now the best thing to do is send a message to this list or the  
dev list to see if anyone is interested in collaborating on this and  
has enough of a business requirement for it to at least help to fund  
involvement on their side.

My guess for something this specific and yet large in scope (ie in  
terms of the amount of work required, probably a few weeks worth) no  
one will be able to participate for the "fun of it".

Who knows.... maybe someone will step up and agree with you on how  
cool it would be and start banging on it with you.

-David

[Scott.]

David,

Like I said, I am a user plain and simple so I can’t get into all of the technical side of things. All I know is that I would like a CRM portion of ofbiz similar to how Sugar CRM works but with a good and solid email client built in. I guess it would take someone with the interest and technical ability to put the requirements together first.

That said, I can only contribute with my wants and needs and some cash. I'd be willing to throw $1000 into the hat to get this type of functionality.

Where do I go from here?

David E. Jones-2 wrote

On Apr 6, 2007, at 10:53 AM, Scott A wrote:
> I have some help from some service providers setting up the system  
> and we've
> already started to work on the gui which includes Ajax for easier  
> use. There
> are also many other options I'd like to have for my business and that
> hopefully I could give back to the ofbiz community too.
>
> Do you guys have any kind of bounty system or a wish list where  
> likeminded
> people could collaborate and get things done at a quicker pace?
>
> For example, I'd like to see a good CRM in the core of ofbiz with  
> something
> like zimbra being used for the calendaring and email. If this were  
> even
> feasible and there were likeminded people who would be interested,  
> then we
> could pool our resources and time, etc.
>
> Any suggestions?

We don't have a bounty and bid system setup right now, but hopefully  
soon or at some point some commercial entity in the OFBiz community  
will do just that. It is something we have talked about, and even  
using OFBiz to manage it, since about year 2 of the project and I  
think it would be a really great thing for the project, and for  
everyone who participates in both funding and developing different  
things.

Right now the best thing to do is send a message to this list or the  
dev list to see if anyone is interested in collaborating on this and  
has enough of a business requirement for it to at least help to fund  
involvement on their side.

My guess for something this specific and yet large in scope (ie in  
terms of the amount of work required, probably a few weeks worth) no  
one will be able to participate for the "fun of it".

Who knows.... maybe someone will step up and agree with you on how  
cool it would be and start banging on it with you.

-David
 

[Walter Vaughan]

Scott A wrote:

> David,
>
> Like I said, I am a user plain and simple so I can’t get into all of the
> technical side of things. All I know is that I would like a CRM portion of
> ofbiz similar to how Sugar CRM works but with a good and solid email client
> built in. I guess it would take someone with the interest and technical
> ability to put the requirements together first.
>
> That said, I can only contribute with my wants and needs and some cash. I'd
> be willing to throw $1000 into the hat to get this type of functionality.
>
> Where do I go from here?

Have you looked at the Opentaps CRM-SFA modules for ofBiz?
https://demo.opensourcestrategies.com:8445/crmsfa/control/login

It's fully integrated with ofBiz and has a Ajax style email client.

Maybe what you need is already available. If it's not, I'd like to hear what you
need that I may not have already considered.

--
Walter

[Scott.]

I've looked at Opentaps and agree that it would be a good start and it is in fact how I got to ofbiz originally but I would like to see it in the core of ofbiz.

As I understand it at the moment, opentaps is distributed with a totally different license and while I don't know all of the legal ramifications, I am told by the people that I trust most that it would be a mistake for me to start developing industry specific extensions based on that license.

While I am am not opposed to sharing enhancements and giving back to the community, my industry specific mods are going to be for me only. I hope you understand.

Walter Vaughan wrote

Scott A wrote:

> David,
>
> Like I said, I am a user plain and simple so I can’t get into all of the
> technical side of things. All I know is that I would like a CRM portion of
> ofbiz similar to how Sugar CRM works but with a good and solid email client
> built in. I guess it would take someone with the interest and technical
> ability to put the requirements together first.
>
> That said, I can only contribute with my wants and needs and some cash. I'd
> be willing to throw $1000 into the hat to get this type of functionality.
>
> Where do I go from here?

Have you looked at the Opentaps CRM-SFA modules for ofBiz?
https://demo.opensourcestrategies.com:8445/crmsfa/control/login

It's fully integrated with ofBiz and has a Ajax style email client.

Maybe what you need is already available. If it's not, I'd like to hear what you
need that I may not have already considered.

--
Walter

[David E Jones]

Hopefully someday we'll have all of that functionality in the main  
OFBiz project. It is all pretty generic, so chances are there is  
enough interest that it will be developed and maintained as part of  
OFBiz and of course licensed to make private changes private and  
derivative works unencumbered.

Until then, the OpenSourceStrategies crmsfa module is a pretty cool  
piece of software that integrates tightly with OFBiz, and you could  
use it and if you need to extend it by adding a page or something  
just contribute the extension back to OFBiz as a new page, or keep it  
an ofbiz-based resource that depends on the OFBiz entities and  
services and doesn't use any of the stuff in OSS/opentaps crmsfa....  
If a enough people do that we'll actually have an incremental build  
path that will get us closer to having a full Sales Force Automation  
package in OFBiz.

-David


On Apr 6, 2007, at 3:22 PM, Scott A wrote:

>
> I've looked at Opentaps and agree that it would be a good start and  
> it is in
> fact how I got to ofbiz originally but I would like to see it in  
> the core of
> ofbiz.
>
> As I understand it at the moment, opentaps is distributed with a  
> totally
> different license and while I don't know all of the legal  
> ramifications, I
> am told by the people that I trust most that it would be a mistake  
> for me to
> start developing industry specific extensions based on that license.
>
> While I am am not opposed to sharing enhancements and giving back  
> to the
> community, my industry specific mods are going to be for me only. I  
> hope you
> understand.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Walter Vaughan wrote:
>>
>> Scott A wrote:
>>
>>> David,
>>>
>>> Like I said, I am a user plain and simple so I can’t get into all  
>>> of the
>>> technical side of things. All I know is that I would like a CRM  
>>> portion
>>> of
>>> ofbiz similar to how Sugar CRM works but with a good and solid email
>>> client
>>> built in. I guess it would take someone with the interest and  
>>> technical
>>> ability to put the requirements together first.
>>>
>>> That said, I can only contribute with my wants and needs and some  
>>> cash.
>>> I'd
>>> be willing to throw $1000 into the hat to get this type of  
>>> functionality.
>>>
>>> Where do I go from here?
>>
>> Have you looked at the Opentaps CRM-SFA modules for ofBiz?
>> https://demo.opensourcestrategies.com:8445/crmsfa/control/login
>>
>> It's fully integrated with ofBiz and has a Ajax style email client.
>>
>> Maybe what you need is already available. If it's not, I'd like to  
>> hear
>> what you
>> need that I may not have already considered.
>>
>> --
>> Walter
>>
>>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Re%3A-Questions- 
> about-the-future-of-ofbiz-tf3533557.html#a9877099
> Sent from the OFBiz - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>

[jonwimp]

Scott,

That license only requires you to deliver your private source codes if you:

1. Change original codes licensed under GPL

2. Distribute/sell the new package.

Say you enhance OpenTaps for your own use, and you call the new package MyOwnApp. If you only ever
use MyOwnApp in your own computers, and never distribute/sell MyOwnApp, you will never have to
release the source codes in MyOwnApp.

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong?

Jonathon

Scott A wrote:

> I've looked at Opentaps and agree that it would be a good start and it is in
> fact how I got to ofbiz originally but I would like to see it in the core of
> ofbiz.
>
> As I understand it at the moment, opentaps is distributed with a totally
> different license and while I don't know all of the legal ramifications, I
> am told by the people that I trust most that it would be a mistake for me to
> start developing industry specific extensions based on that license.
>
> While I am am not opposed to sharing enhancements and giving back to the
> community, my industry specific mods are going to be for me only. I hope you
> understand.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Walter Vaughan wrote:
>> Scott A wrote:
>>
>>> David,
>>>
>>> Like I said, I am a user plain and simple so I can’t get into all of the
>>> technical side of things. All I know is that I would like a CRM portion
>>> of
>>> ofbiz similar to how Sugar CRM works but with a good and solid email
>>> client
>>> built in. I guess it would take someone with the interest and technical
>>> ability to put the requirements together first.
>>>
>>> That said, I can only contribute with my wants and needs and some cash.
>>> I'd
>>> be willing to throw $1000 into the hat to get this type of functionality.
>>>
>>> Where do I go from here?
>> Have you looked at the Opentaps CRM-SFA modules for ofBiz?
>> https://demo.opensourcestrategies.com:8445/crmsfa/control/login
>>
>> It's fully integrated with ofBiz and has a Ajax style email client.
>>
>> Maybe what you need is already available. If it's not, I'd like to hear
>> what you
>> need that I may not have already considered.
>>
>> --
>> Walter
>>
>>
>

[David E Jones]

The trick is that the GPL is not clear on whether or not making an  
application available over the internet constitutes distribution...

Of course, the OSS/opentaps financials and crmsfa modules are not GPL  
licensed, they are HPL licensed which explicitly states that making  
them available over the internet DOES constitute distribution. This  
gets to be a pain because the configurations and everything are HPL  
licensed, so if you don't want to reveal your business setup, you  
should buy a license.

Actually it's more complicated than that... Technically Open Source  
Strategies has a signed contract to license the financials module at  
least under the GPL license because of the history of the early  
development of it, so they shouldn't be distributing it under the HPL  
license. We haven't pushed them on that, but that is in a real legal  
document. The crmsfa one on the other hand is not so encumbered.

-David


On Apr 6, 2007, at 8:25 PM, Jonathon -- Improov wrote:

> Scott,
>
> That license only requires you to deliver your private source codes  
> if you:
>
> 1. Change original codes licensed under GPL
>
> 2. Distribute/sell the new package.
>
> Say you enhance OpenTaps for your own use, and you call the new  
> package MyOwnApp. If you only ever use MyOwnApp in your own  
> computers, and never distribute/sell MyOwnApp, you will never have  
> to release the source codes in MyOwnApp.
>
> Somebody correct me if I'm wrong?
>
> Jonathon
>
> Scott A wrote:
>> I've looked at Opentaps and agree that it would be a good start  
>> and it is in
>> fact how I got to ofbiz originally but I would like to see it in  
>> the core of
>> ofbiz. As I understand it at the moment, opentaps is distributed  
>> with a totally
>> different license and while I don't know all of the legal  
>> ramifications, I
>> am told by the people that I trust most that it would be a mistake  
>> for me to
>> start developing industry specific extensions based on that  
>> license. While I am am not opposed to sharing enhancements and  
>> giving back to the
>> community, my industry specific mods are going to be for me only.  
>> I hope you
>> understand.
>> Walter Vaughan wrote:
>>> Scott A wrote:
>>>
>>>> David,
>>>>
>>>> Like I said, I am a user plain and simple so I can’t get into  
>>>> all of the
>>>> technical side of things. All I know is that I would like a CRM  
>>>> portion
>>>> of
>>>> ofbiz similar to how Sugar CRM works but with a good and solid  
>>>> email
>>>> client
>>>> built in. I guess it would take someone with the interest and  
>>>> technical
>>>> ability to put the requirements together first.
>>>>
>>>> That said, I can only contribute with my wants and needs and  
>>>> some cash.
>>>> I'd
>>>> be willing to throw $1000 into the hat to get this type of  
>>>> functionality.
>>>>
>>>> Where do I go from here?
>>> Have you looked at the Opentaps CRM-SFA modules for ofBiz?
>>> https://demo.opensourcestrategies.com:8445/crmsfa/control/login
>>>
>>> It's fully integrated with ofBiz and has a Ajax style email client.
>>>
>>> Maybe what you need is already available. If it's not, I'd like  
>>> to hear
>>> what you need that I may not have already considered.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Walter
>>>
>>>
>

[jonwimp]

David,

Say I use Financials and CRMSFA, and my staff are using it over the internet.

Does that mean I have to reveal any changes I make to those 2 modules?

If so, that's odd. Or not so odd if OpenTaps was meant to be more commercial than free.

If this is true, I'll be cutting out both modules from my own application.

TIA for advice.

Jonathon

David E. Jones wrote:

>
> The trick is that the GPL is not clear on whether or not making an
> application available over the internet constitutes distribution...
>
> Of course, the OSS/opentaps financials and crmsfa modules are not GPL
> licensed, they are HPL licensed which explicitly states that making them
> available over the internet DOES constitute distribution. This gets to
> be a pain because the configurations and everything are HPL licensed, so
> if you don't want to reveal your business setup, you should buy a license.
>
> Actually it's more complicated than that... Technically Open Source
> Strategies has a signed contract to license the financials module at
> least under the GPL license because of the history of the early
> development of it, so they shouldn't be distributing it under the HPL
> license. We haven't pushed them on that, but that is in a real legal
> document. The crmsfa one on the other hand is not so encumbered.
>
> -David
>
>
> On Apr 6, 2007, at 8:25 PM, Jonathon -- Improov wrote:
>
>> Scott,
>>
>> That license only requires you to deliver your private source codes if
>> you:
>>
>> 1. Change original codes licensed under GPL
>>
>> 2. Distribute/sell the new package.
>>
>> Say you enhance OpenTaps for your own use, and you call the new
>> package MyOwnApp. If you only ever use MyOwnApp in your own computers,
>> and never distribute/sell MyOwnApp, you will never have to release the
>> source codes in MyOwnApp.
>>
>> Somebody correct me if I'm wrong?
>>
>> Jonathon
>>
>> Scott A wrote:
>>> I've looked at Opentaps and agree that it would be a good start and
>>> it is in
>>> fact how I got to ofbiz originally but I would like to see it in the
>>> core of
>>> ofbiz. As I understand it at the moment, opentaps is distributed with
>>> a totally
>>> different license and while I don't know all of the legal
>>> ramifications, I
>>> am told by the people that I trust most that it would be a mistake
>>> for me to
>>> start developing industry specific extensions based on that license.
>>> While I am am not opposed to sharing enhancements and giving back to the
>>> community, my industry specific mods are going to be for me only. I
>>> hope you
>>> understand.
>>> Walter Vaughan wrote:
>>>> Scott A wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> David,
>>>>>
>>>>> Like I said, I am a user plain and simple so I can’t get into all
>>>>> of the
>>>>> technical side of things. All I know is that I would like a CRM
>>>>> portion
>>>>> of
>>>>> ofbiz similar to how Sugar CRM works but with a good and solid email
>>>>> client
>>>>> built in. I guess it would take someone with the interest and
>>>>> technical
>>>>> ability to put the requirements together first.
>>>>>
>>>>> That said, I can only contribute with my wants and needs and some
>>>>> cash.
>>>>> I'd
>>>>> be willing to throw $1000 into the hat to get this type of
>>>>> functionality.
>>>>>
>>>>> Where do I go from here?
>>>> Have you looked at the Opentaps CRM-SFA modules for ofBiz?
>>>> https://demo.opensourcestrategies.com:8445/crmsfa/control/login
>>>>
>>>> It's fully integrated with ofBiz and has a Ajax style email client.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe what you need is already available. If it's not, I'd like to hear
>>>> what you need that I may not have already considered.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Walter
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>

[Anil Patel]

I think lot of users of financial and CRM SFA didn't know about this.

For sure they have put lot of money into it so fees for license to use
is not a bad idea either.

Regards
Anil Patel




On 4/7/07, Jonathon -- Improov <[hidden email]> wrote:

> David,
>
> Say I use Financials and CRMSFA, and my staff are using it over the
> internet.
>
> Does that mean I have to reveal any changes I make to those 2 modules?
>
> If so, that's odd. Or not so odd if OpenTaps was meant to be more commercial
> than free.
>
> If this is true, I'll be cutting out both modules from my own application.
>
> TIA for advice.
>
> Jonathon
>
> David E. Jones wrote:
> >
> > The trick is that the GPL is not clear on whether or not making an
> > application available over the internet constitutes distribution...
> >
> > Of course, the OSS/opentaps financials and crmsfa modules are not GPL
> > licensed, they are HPL licensed which explicitly states that making them
> > available over the internet DOES constitute distribution. This gets to
> > be a pain because the configurations and everything are HPL licensed, so
> > if you don't want to reveal your business setup, you should buy a license.
> >
> > Actually it's more complicated than that... Technically Open Source
> > Strategies has a signed contract to license the financials module at
> > least under the GPL license because of the history of the early
> > development of it, so they shouldn't be distributing it under the HPL
> > license. We haven't pushed them on that, but that is in a real legal
> > document. The crmsfa one on the other hand is not so encumbered.
> >
> > -David
> >
> >
> > On Apr 6, 2007, at 8:25 PM, Jonathon -- Improov wrote:
> >
> >> Scott,
> >>
> >> That license only requires you to deliver your private source codes if
> >> you:
> >>
> >> 1. Change original codes licensed under GPL
> >>
> >> 2. Distribute/sell the new package.
> >>
> >> Say you enhance OpenTaps for your own use, and you call the new
> >> package MyOwnApp. If you only ever use MyOwnApp in your own computers,
> >> and never distribute/sell MyOwnApp, you will never have to release the
> >> source codes in MyOwnApp.
> >>
> >> Somebody correct me if I'm wrong?
> >>
> >> Jonathon
> >>
> >> Scott A wrote:
> >>> I've looked at Opentaps and agree that it would be a good start and
> >>> it is in
> >>> fact how I got to ofbiz originally but I would like to see it in the
> >>> core of
> >>> ofbiz. As I understand it at the moment, opentaps is distributed with
> >>> a totally
> >>> different license and while I don't know all of the legal
> >>> ramifications, I
> >>> am told by the people that I trust most that it would be a mistake
> >>> for me to
> >>> start developing industry specific extensions based on that license.
> >>> While I am am not opposed to sharing enhancements and giving back to the
> >>> community, my industry specific mods are going to be for me only. I
> >>> hope you
> >>> understand.
> >>> Walter Vaughan wrote:
> >>>> Scott A wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> David,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Like I said, I am a user plain and simple so I can't get into all
> >>>>> of the
> >>>>> technical side of things. All I know is that I would like a CRM
> >>>>> portion
> >>>>> of
> >>>>> ofbiz similar to how Sugar CRM works but with a good and solid email
> >>>>> client
> >>>>> built in. I guess it would take someone with the interest and
> >>>>> technical
> >>>>> ability to put the requirements together first.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> That said, I can only contribute with my wants and needs and some
> >>>>> cash.
> >>>>> I'd
> >>>>> be willing to throw $1000 into the hat to get this type of
> >>>>> functionality.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Where do I go from here?
> >>>> Have you looked at the Opentaps CRM-SFA modules for ofBiz?
> >>>> https://demo.opensourcestrategies.com:8445/crmsfa/control/login
> >>>>
> >>>> It's fully integrated with ofBiz and has a Ajax style email client.
> >>>>
> >>>> Maybe what you need is already available. If it's not, I'd like to hear
> >>>> what you need that I may not have already considered.
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Walter
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>
> >
>
>

[David E Jones]

I don't think it's any secret or anything. It really is stated very  
clearly on the web pages for these packages:

http://www.opensourcestrategies.com/ofbiz/accounting.php
http://www.opensourcestrategies.com/ofbiz/open_source_crm.php
http://www.opensourcestrategies.com/HPLv1.1.txt

-David


On Apr 7, 2007, at 1:16 AM, Jonathon -- Improov wrote:

> David,
>
> Say I use Financials and CRMSFA, and my staff are using it over the  
> internet.
>
> Does that mean I have to reveal any changes I make to those 2 modules?
>
> If so, that's odd. Or not so odd if OpenTaps was meant to be more  
> commercial than free.
>
> If this is true, I'll be cutting out both modules from my own  
> application.
>
> TIA for advice.
>
> Jonathon
>
> David E. Jones wrote:
>> The trick is that the GPL is not clear on whether or not making an  
>> application available over the internet constitutes distribution...
>> Of course, the OSS/opentaps financials and crmsfa modules are not  
>> GPL licensed, they are HPL licensed which explicitly states that  
>> making them available over the internet DOES constitute  
>> distribution. This gets to be a pain because the configurations  
>> and everything are HPL licensed, so if you don't want to reveal  
>> your business setup, you should buy a license.
>> Actually it's more complicated than that... Technically Open  
>> Source Strategies has a signed contract to license the financials  
>> module at least under the GPL license because of the history of  
>> the early development of it, so they shouldn't be distributing it  
>> under the HPL license. We haven't pushed them on that, but that is  
>> in a real legal document. The crmsfa one on the other hand is not  
>> so encumbered.
>> -David
>> On Apr 6, 2007, at 8:25 PM, Jonathon -- Improov wrote:
>>> Scott,
>>>
>>> That license only requires you to deliver your private source  
>>> codes if you:
>>>
>>> 1. Change original codes licensed under GPL
>>>
>>> 2. Distribute/sell the new package.
>>>
>>> Say you enhance OpenTaps for your own use, and you call the new  
>>> package MyOwnApp. If you only ever use MyOwnApp in your own  
>>> computers, and never distribute/sell MyOwnApp, you will never  
>>> have to release the source codes in MyOwnApp.
>>>
>>> Somebody correct me if I'm wrong?
>>>
>>> Jonathon
>>>
>>> Scott A wrote:
>>>> I've looked at Opentaps and agree that it would be a good start  
>>>> and it is in
>>>> fact how I got to ofbiz originally but I would like to see it in  
>>>> the core of
>>>> ofbiz. As I understand it at the moment, opentaps is distributed  
>>>> with a totally
>>>> different license and while I don't know all of the legal  
>>>> ramifications, I
>>>> am told by the people that I trust most that it would be a  
>>>> mistake for me to
>>>> start developing industry specific extensions based on that  
>>>> license. While I am am not opposed to sharing enhancements and  
>>>> giving back to the
>>>> community, my industry specific mods are going to be for me  
>>>> only. I hope you
>>>> understand.
>>>> Walter Vaughan wrote:
>>>>> Scott A wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> David,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Like I said, I am a user plain and simple so I can’t get into  
>>>>>> all of the
>>>>>> technical side of things. All I know is that I would like a  
>>>>>> CRM portion
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> ofbiz similar to how Sugar CRM works but with a good and solid  
>>>>>> email
>>>>>> client
>>>>>> built in. I guess it would take someone with the interest and  
>>>>>> technical
>>>>>> ability to put the requirements together first.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That said, I can only contribute with my wants and needs and  
>>>>>> some cash.
>>>>>> I'd
>>>>>> be willing to throw $1000 into the hat to get this type of  
>>>>>> functionality.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Where do I go from here?
>>>>> Have you looked at the Opentaps CRM-SFA modules for ofBiz?
>>>>> https://demo.opensourcestrategies.com:8445/crmsfa/control/login
>>>>>
>>>>> It's fully integrated with ofBiz and has a Ajax style email  
>>>>> client.
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe what you need is already available. If it's not, I'd like  
>>>>> to hear
>>>>> what you need that I may not have already considered.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Walter
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>

[BJ Freeman]

which brings up a point, of why entities from finical and crmsfa are in
ofbiz distribution.
does this mean the entities that are in both ofbiz and the open
strategies are under the apache license.


David E. Jones sent the following on 4/6/2007 8:07 PM:

>
> The trick is that the GPL is not clear on whether or not making an
> application available over the internet constitutes distribution...
>
> Of course, the OSS/opentaps financials and crmsfa modules are not GPL
> licensed, they are HPL licensed which explicitly states that making them
> available over the internet DOES constitute distribution. This gets to
> be a pain because the configurations and everything are HPL licensed, so
> if you don't want to reveal your business setup, you should buy a license.
>
> Actually it's more complicated than that... Technically Open Source
> Strategies has a signed contract to license the financials module at
> least under the GPL license because of the history of the early
> development of it, so they shouldn't be distributing it under the HPL
> license. We haven't pushed them on that, but that is in a real legal
> document. The crmsfa one on the other hand is not so encumbered.
>
> -David
>
>
> On Apr 6, 2007, at 8:25 PM, Jonathon -- Improov wrote:
>
>> Scott,
>>
>> That license only requires you to deliver your private source codes if
>> you:
>>
>> 1. Change original codes licensed under GPL
>>
>> 2. Distribute/sell the new package.
>>
>> Say you enhance OpenTaps for your own use, and you call the new
>> package MyOwnApp. If you only ever use MyOwnApp in your own computers,
>> and never distribute/sell MyOwnApp, you will never have to release the
>> source codes in MyOwnApp.
>>
>> Somebody correct me if I'm wrong?
>>
>> Jonathon
>>
>> Scott A wrote:
>>> I've looked at Opentaps and agree that it would be a good start and
>>> it is in
>>> fact how I got to ofbiz originally but I would like to see it in the
>>> core of
>>> ofbiz. As I understand it at the moment, opentaps is distributed with
>>> a totally
>>> different license and while I don't know all of the legal
>>> ramifications, I
>>> am told by the people that I trust most that it would be a mistake
>>> for me to
>>> start developing industry specific extensions based on that license.
>>> While I am am not opposed to sharing enhancements and giving back to the
>>> community, my industry specific mods are going to be for me only. I
>>> hope you
>>> understand.
>>> Walter Vaughan wrote:
>>>> Scott A wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> David,
>>>>>
>>>>> Like I said, I am a user plain and simple so I can’t get into all
>>>>> of the
>>>>> technical side of things. All I know is that I would like a CRM
>>>>> portion
>>>>> of
>>>>> ofbiz similar to how Sugar CRM works but with a good and solid email
>>>>> client
>>>>> built in. I guess it would take someone with the interest and
>>>>> technical
>>>>> ability to put the requirements together first.
>>>>>
>>>>> That said, I can only contribute with my wants and needs and some
>>>>> cash.
>>>>> I'd
>>>>> be willing to throw $1000 into the hat to get this type of
>>>>> functionality.
>>>>>
>>>>> Where do I go from here?
>>>> Have you looked at the Opentaps CRM-SFA modules for ofBiz?
>>>> https://demo.opensourcestrategies.com:8445/crmsfa/control/login
>>>>
>>>> It's fully integrated with ofBiz and has a Ajax style email client.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe what you need is already available. If it's not, I'd like to hear
>>>> what you need that I may not have already considered.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Walter
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>

[Anil Patel]

I mean most of users of software just look at the headline that its an
open source source software.
And never go beyond that point reading the details or what we call fine prints.



On 4/7/07, David E. Jones <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> I don't think it's any secret or anything. It really is stated very
> clearly on the web pages for these packages:
>
> http://www.opensourcestrategies.com/ofbiz/accounting.php
> http://www.opensourcestrategies.com/ofbiz/open_source_crm.php
> http://www.opensourcestrategies.com/HPLv1.1.txt
>
> -David
>
>
> On Apr 7, 2007, at 1:16 AM, Jonathon -- Improov wrote:
>
> > David,
> >
> > Say I use Financials and CRMSFA, and my staff are using it over the
> > internet.
> >
> > Does that mean I have to reveal any changes I make to those 2 modules?
> >
> > If so, that's odd. Or not so odd if OpenTaps was meant to be more
> > commercial than free.
> >
> > If this is true, I'll be cutting out both modules from my own
> > application.
> >
> > TIA for advice.
> >
> > Jonathon
> >
> > David E. Jones wrote:
> >> The trick is that the GPL is not clear on whether or not making an
> >> application available over the internet constitutes distribution...
> >> Of course, the OSS/opentaps financials and crmsfa modules are not
> >> GPL licensed, they are HPL licensed which explicitly states that
> >> making them available over the internet DOES constitute
> >> distribution. This gets to be a pain because the configurations
> >> and everything are HPL licensed, so if you don't want to reveal
> >> your business setup, you should buy a license.
> >> Actually it's more complicated than that... Technically Open
> >> Source Strategies has a signed contract to license the financials
> >> module at least under the GPL license because of the history of
> >> the early development of it, so they shouldn't be distributing it
> >> under the HPL license. We haven't pushed them on that, but that is
> >> in a real legal document. The crmsfa one on the other hand is not
> >> so encumbered.
> >> -David
> >> On Apr 6, 2007, at 8:25 PM, Jonathon -- Improov wrote:
> >>> Scott,
> >>>
> >>> That license only requires you to deliver your private source
> >>> codes if you:
> >>>
> >>> 1. Change original codes licensed under GPL
> >>>
> >>> 2. Distribute/sell the new package.
> >>>
> >>> Say you enhance OpenTaps for your own use, and you call the new
> >>> package MyOwnApp. If you only ever use MyOwnApp in your own
> >>> computers, and never distribute/sell MyOwnApp, you will never
> >>> have to release the source codes in MyOwnApp.
> >>>
> >>> Somebody correct me if I'm wrong?
> >>>
> >>> Jonathon
> >>>
> >>> Scott A wrote:
> >>>> I've looked at Opentaps and agree that it would be a good start
> >>>> and it is in
> >>>> fact how I got to ofbiz originally but I would like to see it in
> >>>> the core of
> >>>> ofbiz. As I understand it at the moment, opentaps is distributed
> >>>> with a totally
> >>>> different license and while I don't know all of the legal
> >>>> ramifications, I
> >>>> am told by the people that I trust most that it would be a
> >>>> mistake for me to
> >>>> start developing industry specific extensions based on that
> >>>> license. While I am am not opposed to sharing enhancements and
> >>>> giving back to the
> >>>> community, my industry specific mods are going to be for me
> >>>> only. I hope you
> >>>> understand.
> >>>> Walter Vaughan wrote:
> >>>>> Scott A wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> David,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Like I said, I am a user plain and simple so I can't get into
> >>>>>> all of the
> >>>>>> technical side of things. All I know is that I would like a
> >>>>>> CRM portion
> >>>>>> of
> >>>>>> ofbiz similar to how Sugar CRM works but with a good and solid
> >>>>>> email
> >>>>>> client
> >>>>>> built in. I guess it would take someone with the interest and
> >>>>>> technical
> >>>>>> ability to put the requirements together first.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> That said, I can only contribute with my wants and needs and
> >>>>>> some cash.
> >>>>>> I'd
> >>>>>> be willing to throw $1000 into the hat to get this type of
> >>>>>> functionality.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Where do I go from here?
> >>>>> Have you looked at the Opentaps CRM-SFA modules for ofBiz?
> >>>>> https://demo.opensourcestrategies.com:8445/crmsfa/control/login
> >>>>>
> >>>>> It's fully integrated with ofBiz and has a Ajax style email
> >>>>> client.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Maybe what you need is already available. If it's not, I'd like
> >>>>> to hear
> >>>>> what you need that I may not have already considered.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> Walter
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>
> >
>
>

[Scott.]

I guess this thread really illustrates the confusion that I had originally. I didnt want to start any problems but I just want the ability to do whatever I want with the software that I help to develop. Who knows where the future leads and what we may or may not do with the software down the road. It's especially true for speciality operations that need to do much customization. You might find in 5 years time that your software is worth more than your product... That would be a real bad time to find out that the license was different from what you had thought.

I'm just going to stick with the core of ofbiz and over time I'll build the extra functionality that I want and need.

Anil Patel wrote

I mean most of users of software just look at the headline that its an
open source source software.
And never go beyond that point reading the details or what we call fine prints.



On 4/7/07, David E. Jones <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
> I don't think it's any secret or anything. It really is stated very
> clearly on the web pages for these packages:
>
> http://www.opensourcestrategies.com/ofbiz/accounting.php
> http://www.opensourcestrategies.com/ofbiz/open_source_crm.php
> http://www.opensourcestrategies.com/HPLv1.1.txt
>
> -David
>
>
> On Apr 7, 2007, at 1:16 AM, Jonathon -- Improov wrote:
>
> > David,
> >
> > Say I use Financials and CRMSFA, and my staff are using it over the
> > internet.
> >
> > Does that mean I have to reveal any changes I make to those 2 modules?
> >
> > If so, that's odd. Or not so odd if OpenTaps was meant to be more
> > commercial than free.
> >
> > If this is true, I'll be cutting out both modules from my own
> > application.
> >
> > TIA for advice.
> >
> > Jonathon
> >
> > David E. Jones wrote:
> >> The trick is that the GPL is not clear on whether or not making an
> >> application available over the internet constitutes distribution...
> >> Of course, the OSS/opentaps financials and crmsfa modules are not
> >> GPL licensed, they are HPL licensed which explicitly states that
> >> making them available over the internet DOES constitute
> >> distribution. This gets to be a pain because the configurations
> >> and everything are HPL licensed, so if you don't want to reveal
> >> your business setup, you should buy a license.
> >> Actually it's more complicated than that... Technically Open
> >> Source Strategies has a signed contract to license the financials
> >> module at least under the GPL license because of the history of
> >> the early development of it, so they shouldn't be distributing it
> >> under the HPL license. We haven't pushed them on that, but that is
> >> in a real legal document. The crmsfa one on the other hand is not
> >> so encumbered.
> >> -David
> >> On Apr 6, 2007, at 8:25 PM, Jonathon -- Improov wrote:
> >>> Scott,
> >>>
> >>> That license only requires you to deliver your private source
> >>> codes if you:
> >>>
> >>> 1. Change original codes licensed under GPL
> >>>
> >>> 2. Distribute/sell the new package.
> >>>
> >>> Say you enhance OpenTaps for your own use, and you call the new
> >>> package MyOwnApp. If you only ever use MyOwnApp in your own
> >>> computers, and never distribute/sell MyOwnApp, you will never
> >>> have to release the source codes in MyOwnApp.
> >>>
> >>> Somebody correct me if I'm wrong?
> >>>
> >>> Jonathon
> >>>
> >>> Scott A wrote:
> >>>> I've looked at Opentaps and agree that it would be a good start
> >>>> and it is in
> >>>> fact how I got to ofbiz originally but I would like to see it in
> >>>> the core of
> >>>> ofbiz. As I understand it at the moment, opentaps is distributed
> >>>> with a totally
> >>>> different license and while I don't know all of the legal
> >>>> ramifications, I
> >>>> am told by the people that I trust most that it would be a
> >>>> mistake for me to
> >>>> start developing industry specific extensions based on that
> >>>> license. While I am am not opposed to sharing enhancements and
> >>>> giving back to the
> >>>> community, my industry specific mods are going to be for me
> >>>> only. I hope you
> >>>> understand.
> >>>> Walter Vaughan wrote:
> >>>>> Scott A wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> David,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Like I said, I am a user plain and simple so I can't get into
> >>>>>> all of the
> >>>>>> technical side of things. All I know is that I would like a
> >>>>>> CRM portion
> >>>>>> of
> >>>>>> ofbiz similar to how Sugar CRM works but with a good and solid
> >>>>>> email
> >>>>>> client
> >>>>>> built in. I guess it would take someone with the interest and
> >>>>>> technical
> >>>>>> ability to put the requirements together first.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> That said, I can only contribute with my wants and needs and
> >>>>>> some cash.
> >>>>>> I'd
> >>>>>> be willing to throw $1000 into the hat to get this type of
> >>>>>> functionality.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Where do I go from here?
> >>>>> Have you looked at the Opentaps CRM-SFA modules for ofBiz?
> >>>>> https://demo.opensourcestrategies.com:8445/crmsfa/control/login
> >>>>>
> >>>>> It's fully integrated with ofBiz and has a Ajax style email
> >>>>> client.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Maybe what you need is already available. If it's not, I'd like
> >>>>> to hear
> >>>>> what you need that I may not have already considered.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> Walter
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>
> >
>
>