Questions about the future of ofbiz

[Si Chen-2]

If there are any developers interested in working on a CRM system, we're
looking for more help here at Open Source Strategies.  We have both
full-time openings and part-time paid opportunities, and you can work
from home and set your own hours.  You'll have a chance to work with us
on a combination of client projects, our open source products, and just
cool stuff you're interested in.  

We're especially looking for developers with strong familiarity with the
following areas (though not necessarily just these):

1.  Front end development and Ajax
2.  Integration with external devices, such as mobile phones, handheld
devices, etc.
3.  Analytics and reporting

If you're interested, please drop me a note off the list.

Scott A wrote:

> David,
>
> Like I said, I am a user plain and simple so I can’t get into all of the
> technical side of things. All I know is that I would like a CRM portion of
> ofbiz similar to how Sugar CRM works but with a good and solid email client
> built in. I guess it would take someone with the interest and technical
> ability to put the requirements together first.
>
> That said, I can only contribute with my wants and needs and some cash. I'd
> be willing to throw $1000 into the hat to get this type of functionality.
>
> Where do I go from here?
>
>
>
>
>
> David E. Jones-2 wrote:
>  
>> On Apr 6, 2007, at 10:53 AM, Scott A wrote:
>>    
>>> I have some help from some service providers setting up the system  
>>> and we've
>>> already started to work on the gui which includes Ajax for easier  
>>> use. There
>>> are also many other options I'd like to have for my business and that
>>> hopefully I could give back to the ofbiz community too.
>>>
>>> Do you guys have any kind of bounty system or a wish list where  
>>> likeminded
>>> people could collaborate and get things done at a quicker pace?
>>>
>>> For example, I'd like to see a good CRM in the core of ofbiz with  
>>> something
>>> like zimbra being used for the calendaring and email. If this were  
>>> even
>>> feasible and there were likeminded people who would be interested,  
>>> then we
>>> could pool our resources and time, etc.
>>>
>>> Any suggestions?
>>>      
>> We don't have a bounty and bid system setup right now, but hopefully  
>> soon or at some point some commercial entity in the OFBiz community  
>> will do just that. It is something we have talked about, and even  
>> using OFBiz to manage it, since about year 2 of the project and I  
>> think it would be a really great thing for the project, and for  
>> everyone who participates in both funding and developing different  
>> things.
>>
>> Right now the best thing to do is send a message to this list or the  
>> dev list to see if anyone is interested in collaborating on this and  
>> has enough of a business requirement for it to at least help to fund  
>> involvement on their side.
>>
>> My guess for something this specific and yet large in scope (ie in  
>> terms of the amount of work required, probably a few weeks worth) no  
>> one will be able to participate for the "fun of it".
>>
>> Who knows.... maybe someone will step up and agree with you on how  
>> cool it would be and start banging on it with you.
>>
>> -David
>>  
>>
>>    
>
>  

[Andrew Zeneski-2]

This sounds like it will be a nice addition to OFBiz, I can't wait to  
see the progress!

Andrew

On Apr 23, 2007, at 4:59 PM, Si Chen wrote:

> If there are any developers interested in working on a CRM system,  
> we're looking for more help here at Open Source Strategies.  We  
> have both full-time openings and part-time paid opportunities, and  
> you can work from home and set your own hours.  You'll have a  
> chance to work with us on a combination of client projects, our  
> open source products, and just cool stuff you're interested in.
> We're especially looking for developers with strong familiarity  
> with the following areas (though not necessarily just these):
>
> 1.  Front end development and Ajax
> 2.  Integration with external devices, such as mobile phones,  
> handheld devices, etc.
> 3.  Analytics and reporting
>
> If you're interested, please drop me a note off the list.
>
> Scott A wrote:
>> David,
>>
>> Like I said, I am a user plain and simple so I can’t get into all  
>> of the
>> technical side of things. All I know is that I would like a CRM  
>> portion of
>> ofbiz similar to how Sugar CRM works but with a good and solid  
>> email client
>> built in. I guess it would take someone with the interest and  
>> technical
>> ability to put the requirements together first.
>>
>> That said, I can only contribute with my wants and needs and some  
>> cash. I'd
>> be willing to throw $1000 into the hat to get this type of  
>> functionality.
>>
>> Where do I go from here?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> David E. Jones-2 wrote:
>>
>>> On Apr 6, 2007, at 10:53 AM, Scott A wrote:
>>>
>>>> I have some help from some service providers setting up the  
>>>> system  and we've
>>>> already started to work on the gui which includes Ajax for  
>>>> easier  use. There
>>>> are also many other options I'd like to have for my business and  
>>>> that
>>>> hopefully I could give back to the ofbiz community too.
>>>>
>>>> Do you guys have any kind of bounty system or a wish list where  
>>>> likeminded
>>>> people could collaborate and get things done at a quicker pace?
>>>>
>>>> For example, I'd like to see a good CRM in the core of ofbiz  
>>>> with  something
>>>> like zimbra being used for the calendaring and email. If this  
>>>> were  even
>>>> feasible and there were likeminded people who would be  
>>>> interested,  then we
>>>> could pool our resources and time, etc.
>>>>
>>>> Any suggestions?
>>>>
>>> We don't have a bounty and bid system setup right now, but  
>>> hopefully  soon or at some point some commercial entity in the  
>>> OFBiz community  will do just that. It is something we have  
>>> talked about, and even  using OFBiz to manage it, since about  
>>> year 2 of the project and I  think it would be a really great  
>>> thing for the project, and for  everyone who participates in both  
>>> funding and developing different  things.
>>>
>>> Right now the best thing to do is send a message to this list or  
>>> the  dev list to see if anyone is interested in collaborating on  
>>> this and  has enough of a business requirement for it to at least  
>>> help to fund  involvement on their side.
>>>
>>> My guess for something this specific and yet large in scope (ie  
>>> in  terms of the amount of work required, probably a few weeks  
>>> worth) no  one will be able to participate for the "fun of it".
>>>
>>> Who knows.... maybe someone will step up and agree with you on  
>>> how  cool it would be and start banging on it with you.
>>>
>>> -David
>>>
>>>
>>
>>

[jonwimp]

I was actually looking to pump in my enhancements to the Widget module. I've incorporated some
Ajax-facilitating or Ajax-related features directly into the Widget module, so I won't have to do
HUGE .ftl(s).

Imagine being able to use and reuse a widget-screen for 2 (or more) purposes: non-ajax operation
and ajax operation (pulling down various sub-sub-parts of the screen).

In general, I was able to make all listings screens (with the Prev/Next hrefs) load via Ajax.

But be warned that this Ajax approach, if carried further, could hark back to those times when you
programmed Java AWTs for rich UIs (events and concurrency). Except there's lots of javascript
involved in this case, not Java, and bad news is there's no concurrency controls in javascript.
Which means, prepare to get wickedly good at acrobatics in javascript (obscure acquired taste,
really), or deal with the potential mess and meltdown. Please let me know if there's any experts
in javascript OO and programming here.

I'm willing to help with Ajax-ing OFBiz. Just let me know if the "nice addition" Andrew's talking
about will go into Opentaps or OFBiz, and I'll follow. I only need to know if there's any
anti-trust case against the body I'm contributing to.

Jonathon

Andrew Zeneski wrote:

> This sounds like it will be a nice addition to OFBiz, I can't wait to
> see the progress!
>
> Andrew
>
> On Apr 23, 2007, at 4:59 PM, Si Chen wrote:
>
>> If there are any developers interested in working on a CRM system,
>> we're looking for more help here at Open Source Strategies.  We have
>> both full-time openings and part-time paid opportunities, and you can
>> work from home and set your own hours.  You'll have a chance to work
>> with us on a combination of client projects, our open source products,
>> and just cool stuff you're interested in.
>> We're especially looking for developers with strong familiarity with
>> the following areas (though not necessarily just these):
>>
>> 1.  Front end development and Ajax
>> 2.  Integration with external devices, such as mobile phones, handheld
>> devices, etc.
>> 3.  Analytics and reporting
>>
>> If you're interested, please drop me a note off the list.
>>
>> Scott A wrote:
>>> David,
>>>
>>> Like I said, I am a user plain and simple so I can’t get into all of the
>>> technical side of things. All I know is that I would like a CRM
>>> portion of
>>> ofbiz similar to how Sugar CRM works but with a good and solid email
>>> client
>>> built in. I guess it would take someone with the interest and technical
>>> ability to put the requirements together first.
>>>
>>> That said, I can only contribute with my wants and needs and some
>>> cash. I'd
>>> be willing to throw $1000 into the hat to get this type of
>>> functionality.
>>>
>>> Where do I go from here?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> David E. Jones-2 wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Apr 6, 2007, at 10:53 AM, Scott A wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I have some help from some service providers setting up the system  
>>>>> and we've
>>>>> already started to work on the gui which includes Ajax for easier  
>>>>> use. There
>>>>> are also many other options I'd like to have for my business and that
>>>>> hopefully I could give back to the ofbiz community too.
>>>>>
>>>>> Do you guys have any kind of bounty system or a wish list where  
>>>>> likeminded
>>>>> people could collaborate and get things done at a quicker pace?
>>>>>
>>>>> For example, I'd like to see a good CRM in the core of ofbiz with  
>>>>> something
>>>>> like zimbra being used for the calendaring and email. If this were  
>>>>> even
>>>>> feasible and there were likeminded people who would be interested,  
>>>>> then we
>>>>> could pool our resources and time, etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> Any suggestions?
>>>>>
>>>> We don't have a bounty and bid system setup right now, but
>>>> hopefully  soon or at some point some commercial entity in the OFBiz
>>>> community  will do just that. It is something we have talked about,
>>>> and even  using OFBiz to manage it, since about year 2 of the
>>>> project and I  think it would be a really great thing for the
>>>> project, and for  everyone who participates in both funding and
>>>> developing different  things.
>>>>
>>>> Right now the best thing to do is send a message to this list or
>>>> the  dev list to see if anyone is interested in collaborating on
>>>> this and  has enough of a business requirement for it to at least
>>>> help to fund  involvement on their side.
>>>>
>>>> My guess for something this specific and yet large in scope (ie in  
>>>> terms of the amount of work required, probably a few weeks worth)
>>>> no  one will be able to participate for the "fun of it".
>>>>
>>>> Who knows.... maybe someone will step up and agree with you on how  
>>>> cool it would be and start banging on it with you.
>>>>
>>>> -David
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>

[Tim Ruppert]

Jonathon, just to clarify, I think that Andrew was kidding a bit with his response as we'd all like to see ALL of these contributions going back into a place where everyone can build on them without having to buy a license or contribute it back if they want to build a derivative app for their proprietary purposes.

Everything that Si is talking about here is to enhance the OpenTaps module (which by the way has a fair bit of useful functionality) and unless something changes in the way those contributions are being processed will be going back into Opentaps and not into the OFBiz trunk.

Cheers,

Tim

--

Tim Ruppert

HotWax Media

http://www.hotwaxmedia.com

o:801.649.6594

f:801.649.6595

On Apr 23, 2007, at 9:33 PM, Jonathon -- Improov wrote:

I was actually looking to pump in my enhancements to the Widget module. I've incorporated some Ajax-facilitating or Ajax-related features directly into the Widget module, so I won't have to do HUGE .ftl(s).

Imagine being able to use and reuse a widget-screen for 2 (or more) purposes: non-ajax operation and ajax operation (pulling down various sub-sub-parts of the screen).

In general, I was able to make all listings screens (with the Prev/Next hrefs) load via Ajax.

But be warned that this Ajax approach, if carried further, could hark back to those times when you programmed Java AWTs for rich UIs (events and concurrency). Except there's lots of javascript involved in this case, not Java, and bad news is there's no concurrency controls in javascript. Which means, prepare to get wickedly good at acrobatics in javascript (obscure acquired taste, really), or deal with the potential mess and meltdown. Please let me know if there's any experts in javascript OO and programming here.

I'm willing to help with Ajax-ing OFBiz. Just let me know if the "nice addition" Andrew's talking about will go into Opentaps or OFBiz, and I'll follow. I only need to know if there's any anti-trust case against the body I'm contributing to.

Jonathon

Andrew Zeneski wrote:

This sounds like it will be a nice addition to OFBiz, I can't wait to see the progress!

Andrew

On Apr 23, 2007, at 4:59 PM, Si Chen wrote:

If there are any developers interested in working on a CRM system, we're looking for more help here at Open Source Strategies.  We have both full-time openings and part-time paid opportunities, and you can work from home and set your own hours.  You'll have a chance to work with us on a combination of client projects, our open source products, and just cool stuff you're interested in.

We're especially looking for developers with strong familiarity with the following areas (though not necessarily just these):

1.  Front end development and Ajax

2.  Integration with external devices, such as mobile phones, handheld devices, etc.

3.  Analytics and reporting

If you're interested, please drop me a note off the list.

Scott A wrote:

David,

Like I said, I am a user plain and simple so I can’t get into all of the

technical side of things. All I know is that I would like a CRM portion of

ofbiz similar to how Sugar CRM works but with a good and solid email client

built in. I guess it would take someone with the interest and technical

ability to put the requirements together first.

That said, I can only contribute with my wants and needs and some cash. I'd

be willing to throw $1000 into the hat to get this type of functionality.

Where do I go from here?

David E. Jones-2 wrote:

On Apr 6, 2007, at 10:53 AM, Scott A wrote:

I have some help from some service providers setting up the system  and we've

already started to work on the gui which includes Ajax for easier  use. There

are also many other options I'd like to have for my business and that

hopefully I could give back to the ofbiz community too.

Do you guys have any kind of bounty system or a wish list where  likeminded

people could collaborate and get things done at a quicker pace?

For example, I'd like to see a good CRM in the core of ofbiz with  something

like zimbra being used for the calendaring and email. If this were  even

feasible and there were likeminded people who would be interested,  then we

could pool our resources and time, etc.

Any suggestions?

We don't have a bounty and bid system setup right now, but hopefully  soon or at some point some commercial entity in the OFBiz community  will do just that. It is something we have talked about, and even  using OFBiz to manage it, since about year 2 of the project and I  think it would be a really great thing for the project, and for  everyone who participates in both funding and developing different  things.

Right now the best thing to do is send a message to this list or the  dev list to see if anyone is interested in collaborating on this and  has enough of a business requirement for it to at least help to fund  involvement on their side.

My guess for something this specific and yet large in scope (ie in  terms of the amount of work required, probably a few weeks worth) no  one will be able to participate for the "fun of it".

Who knows.... maybe someone will step up and agree with you on how  cool it would be and start banging on it with you.

-David

[flj]

Hello.

> I was actually looking to pump in my enhancements to the Widget module.  
> I've incorporated some Ajax-facilitating or Ajax-related features  
> directly into the Widget module, so I won't have to do HUGE .ftl(s).
>
> Imagine being able to use and reuse a widget-screen for 2 (or more)  
> purposes: non-ajax operation and ajax operation (pulling down various  
> sub-sub-parts of the screen).
>
> In general, I was able to make all listings screens (with the Prev/Next  
> hrefs) load via Ajax.

Did anyone here ever try wicket? (http://wicket.sourceforge.net/) We (the  
company I'm working for) didn't try it out until now (but we plan to do  
so), so I cannot really tell how good it is. However, here's what the wiki  
page of wicket says (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wicket_framework) -  
these things sound pretty smart to me:
- Transparent state management
- Wicket pages can be mocked up, previewed, and later revised using  
standard WYSIWYG HTML design tools (except when using special tags like  
<wicket:border>..</wicket:border> or <wicket:body/>).
- Dynamic content processing and form handling is all handled in Java code.
- No XML configuration files.

br,

--
Florin Jurcovici
------------------
Why do psychics have to ask you for your name?

On Tue, 24 Apr 2007 06:33:36 +0300, Jonathon -- Improov <[hidden email]>  
wrote:

[David Goodenough]

You ask about whether there are Javascript experts around.  Of course
if you were to use GWT (Google Widget Toolkit), you do the programming
in Java and it is translated into Javascript.  That way you get all the
strict typing of Java but the implementation on the browser without
addons.  GWT is of course now entirely open source and integrated into
Eclipse quite easily.

As I read it much of what is needed for using GWT is already present in
Ofbiz, GWT can use JSON as its comms protocol and I think I am right in
saying that JSON is supported by Ofbiz.  You could use SOAP but JSON is
lighter weight and as the execution environment is javascript is the more
native protocol.  GWT does have its own RPC protocol as well, in which
case you would have to write the server end in its environment, but there
is no requirement to use it, JSON (or even native HTTP) will do perfectly
well.

David

On Tuesday 24 April 2007 04:33, Jonathon -- Improov wrote:

> I was actually looking to pump in my enhancements to the Widget module.
> I've incorporated some Ajax-facilitating or Ajax-related features directly
> into the Widget module, so I won't have to do HUGE .ftl(s).
>
> Imagine being able to use and reuse a widget-screen for 2 (or more)
> purposes: non-ajax operation and ajax operation (pulling down various
> sub-sub-parts of the screen).
>
> In general, I was able to make all listings screens (with the Prev/Next
> hrefs) load via Ajax.
>
> But be warned that this Ajax approach, if carried further, could hark back
> to those times when you programmed Java AWTs for rich UIs (events and
> concurrency). Except there's lots of javascript involved in this case, not
> Java, and bad news is there's no concurrency controls in javascript. Which
> means, prepare to get wickedly good at acrobatics in javascript (obscure
> acquired taste, really), or deal with the potential mess and meltdown.
> Please let me know if there's any experts in javascript OO and programming
> here.
>
> I'm willing to help with Ajax-ing OFBiz. Just let me know if the "nice
> addition" Andrew's talking about will go into Opentaps or OFBiz, and I'll
> follow. I only need to know if there's any anti-trust case against the body
> I'm contributing to.
>
> Jonathon
>
> Andrew Zeneski wrote:
> > This sounds like it will be a nice addition to OFBiz, I can't wait to
> > see the progress!
> >
> > Andrew
> >
> > On Apr 23, 2007, at 4:59 PM, Si Chen wrote:
> >> If there are any developers interested in working on a CRM system,
> >> we're looking for more help here at Open Source Strategies.  We have
> >> both full-time openings and part-time paid opportunities, and you can
> >> work from home and set your own hours.  You'll have a chance to work
> >> with us on a combination of client projects, our open source products,
> >> and just cool stuff you're interested in.
> >> We're especially looking for developers with strong familiarity with
> >> the following areas (though not necessarily just these):
> >>
> >> 1.  Front end development and Ajax
> >> 2.  Integration with external devices, such as mobile phones, handheld
> >> devices, etc.
> >> 3.  Analytics and reporting
> >>
> >> If you're interested, please drop me a note off the list.
> >>
> >> Scott A wrote:
> >>> David,
> >>>
> >>> Like I said, I am a user plain and simple so I can’t get into all of
> >>> the technical side of things. All I know is that I would like a CRM
> >>> portion of
> >>> ofbiz similar to how Sugar CRM works but with a good and solid email
> >>> client
> >>> built in. I guess it would take someone with the interest and technical
> >>> ability to put the requirements together first.
> >>>
> >>> That said, I can only contribute with my wants and needs and some
> >>> cash. I'd
> >>> be willing to throw $1000 into the hat to get this type of
> >>> functionality.
> >>>
> >>> Where do I go from here?
> >>>
> >>> David E. Jones-2 wrote:
> >>>> On Apr 6, 2007, at 10:53 AM, Scott A wrote:
> >>>>> I have some help from some service providers setting up the system
> >>>>> and we've
> >>>>> already started to work on the gui which includes Ajax for easier
> >>>>> use. There
> >>>>> are also many other options I'd like to have for my business and that
> >>>>> hopefully I could give back to the ofbiz community too.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Do you guys have any kind of bounty system or a wish list where
> >>>>> likeminded
> >>>>> people could collaborate and get things done at a quicker pace?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> For example, I'd like to see a good CRM in the core of ofbiz with
> >>>>> something
> >>>>> like zimbra being used for the calendaring and email. If this were
> >>>>> even
> >>>>> feasible and there were likeminded people who would be interested,
> >>>>> then we
> >>>>> could pool our resources and time, etc.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Any suggestions?
> >>>>
> >>>> We don't have a bounty and bid system setup right now, but
> >>>> hopefully  soon or at some point some commercial entity in the OFBiz
> >>>> community  will do just that. It is something we have talked about,
> >>>> and even  using OFBiz to manage it, since about year 2 of the
> >>>> project and I  think it would be a really great thing for the
> >>>> project, and for  everyone who participates in both funding and
> >>>> developing different  things.
> >>>>
> >>>> Right now the best thing to do is send a message to this list or
> >>>> the  dev list to see if anyone is interested in collaborating on
> >>>> this and  has enough of a business requirement for it to at least
> >>>> help to fund  involvement on their side.
> >>>>
> >>>> My guess for something this specific and yet large in scope (ie in
> >>>> terms of the amount of work required, probably a few weeks worth)
> >>>> no  one will be able to participate for the "fun of it".
> >>>>
> >>>> Who knows.... maybe someone will step up and agree with you on how
> >>>> cool it would be and start banging on it with you.
> >>>>
> >>>> -David

[jonwimp]

David,

Seems to me the GWT will generate both the HTML (events) and the Javascript (event handlers). Is
that correct? If so, I'd have to somehow translate the HTML output to OFBiz widgets. Still, GWT's
support for coding in Java is cool.

Yes, OFBiz supports JSON (via json-lib). I've been using it often in Ajax work with OFBiz.

Jonathon

David Goodenough wrote:

> You ask about whether there are Javascript experts around.  Of course
> if you were to use GWT (Google Widget Toolkit), you do the programming
> in Java and it is translated into Javascript.  That way you get all the
> strict typing of Java but the implementation on the browser without
> addons.  GWT is of course now entirely open source and integrated into
> Eclipse quite easily.
>
> As I read it much of what is needed for using GWT is already present in
> Ofbiz, GWT can use JSON as its comms protocol and I think I am right in
> saying that JSON is supported by Ofbiz.  You could use SOAP but JSON is
> lighter weight and as the execution environment is javascript is the more
> native protocol.  GWT does have its own RPC protocol as well, in which
> case you would have to write the server end in its environment, but there
> is no requirement to use it, JSON (or even native HTTP) will do perfectly
> well.
>
> David
>
> On Tuesday 24 April 2007 04:33, Jonathon -- Improov wrote:
>> I was actually looking to pump in my enhancements to the Widget module.
>> I've incorporated some Ajax-facilitating or Ajax-related features directly
>> into the Widget module, so I won't have to do HUGE .ftl(s).
>>
>> Imagine being able to use and reuse a widget-screen for 2 (or more)
>> purposes: non-ajax operation and ajax operation (pulling down various
>> sub-sub-parts of the screen).
>>
>> In general, I was able to make all listings screens (with the Prev/Next
>> hrefs) load via Ajax.
>>
>> But be warned that this Ajax approach, if carried further, could hark back
>> to those times when you programmed Java AWTs for rich UIs (events and
>> concurrency). Except there's lots of javascript involved in this case, not
>> Java, and bad news is there's no concurrency controls in javascript. Which
>> means, prepare to get wickedly good at acrobatics in javascript (obscure
>> acquired taste, really), or deal with the potential mess and meltdown.
>> Please let me know if there's any experts in javascript OO and programming
>> here.
>>
>> I'm willing to help with Ajax-ing OFBiz. Just let me know if the "nice
>> addition" Andrew's talking about will go into Opentaps or OFBiz, and I'll
>> follow. I only need to know if there's any anti-trust case against the body
>> I'm contributing to.
>>
>> Jonathon
>>
>> Andrew Zeneski wrote:
>>> This sounds like it will be a nice addition to OFBiz, I can't wait to
>>> see the progress!
>>>
>>> Andrew
>>>
>>> On Apr 23, 2007, at 4:59 PM, Si Chen wrote:
>>>> If there are any developers interested in working on a CRM system,
>>>> we're looking for more help here at Open Source Strategies.  We have
>>>> both full-time openings and part-time paid opportunities, and you can
>>>> work from home and set your own hours.  You'll have a chance to work
>>>> with us on a combination of client projects, our open source products,
>>>> and just cool stuff you're interested in.
>>>> We're especially looking for developers with strong familiarity with
>>>> the following areas (though not necessarily just these):
>>>>
>>>> 1.  Front end development and Ajax
>>>> 2.  Integration with external devices, such as mobile phones, handheld
>>>> devices, etc.
>>>> 3.  Analytics and reporting
>>>>
>>>> If you're interested, please drop me a note off the list.
>>>>
>>>> Scott A wrote:
>>>>> David,
>>>>>
>>>>> Like I said, I am a user plain and simple so I can’t get into all of
>>>>> the technical side of things. All I know is that I would like a CRM
>>>>> portion of
>>>>> ofbiz similar to how Sugar CRM works but with a good and solid email
>>>>> client
>>>>> built in. I guess it would take someone with the interest and technical
>>>>> ability to put the requirements together first.
>>>>>
>>>>> That said, I can only contribute with my wants and needs and some
>>>>> cash. I'd
>>>>> be willing to throw $1000 into the hat to get this type of
>>>>> functionality.
>>>>>
>>>>> Where do I go from here?
>>>>>
>>>>> David E. Jones-2 wrote:
>>>>>> On Apr 6, 2007, at 10:53 AM, Scott A wrote:
>>>>>>> I have some help from some service providers setting up the system
>>>>>>> and we've
>>>>>>> already started to work on the gui which includes Ajax for easier
>>>>>>> use. There
>>>>>>> are also many other options I'd like to have for my business and that
>>>>>>> hopefully I could give back to the ofbiz community too.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Do you guys have any kind of bounty system or a wish list where
>>>>>>> likeminded
>>>>>>> people could collaborate and get things done at a quicker pace?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For example, I'd like to see a good CRM in the core of ofbiz with
>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>> like zimbra being used for the calendaring and email. If this were
>>>>>>> even
>>>>>>> feasible and there were likeminded people who would be interested,
>>>>>>> then we
>>>>>>> could pool our resources and time, etc.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Any suggestions?
>>>>>> We don't have a bounty and bid system setup right now, but
>>>>>> hopefully  soon or at some point some commercial entity in the OFBiz
>>>>>> community  will do just that. It is something we have talked about,
>>>>>> and even  using OFBiz to manage it, since about year 2 of the
>>>>>> project and I  think it would be a really great thing for the
>>>>>> project, and for  everyone who participates in both funding and
>>>>>> developing different  things.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Right now the best thing to do is send a message to this list or
>>>>>> the  dev list to see if anyone is interested in collaborating on
>>>>>> this and  has enough of a business requirement for it to at least
>>>>>> help to fund  involvement on their side.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My guess for something this specific and yet large in scope (ie in
>>>>>> terms of the amount of work required, probably a few weeks worth)
>>>>>> no  one will be able to participate for the "fun of it".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Who knows.... maybe someone will step up and agree with you on how
>>>>>> cool it would be and start banging on it with you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -David
>
>

[David Goodenough]

Jonathon,

Probably the best approach would be to write an xslt script which would
parse the OfBiz XML descriptors and generate skeleton code which could
then be subclassed to put in specific processing (it may be possible to
generate the whole thing, I have not looked closely enough).  I am thinking
of something like the juic system used by QtJambi - the new Java binding
for Qt that Trolltech have currently in beta (juic was actually originally
part of kdebindings but that is another story).

It may sound odd, but actually it is best not to think about HTML and
Javascript when coding GWT, it just complicates things.  You can include
explicit HTML or Javascript if necessary, but it is better to start from
the position of doing it natively in GWT.  It may be necessary (or desirable)
to write some GWT code to emulate specific OfBiz widgets, I have not looked
closely enough to find out.

David

On Tuesday 24 April 2007 13:22, Jonathon -- Improov wrote:

> David,
>
> Seems to me the GWT will generate both the HTML (events) and the Javascript
> (event handlers). Is that correct? If so, I'd have to somehow translate the
> HTML output to OFBiz widgets. Still, GWT's support for coding in Java is
> cool.
>
> Yes, OFBiz supports JSON (via json-lib). I've been using it often in Ajax
> work with OFBiz.
>
> Jonathon
>
> David Goodenough wrote:
> > You ask about whether there are Javascript experts around.  Of course
> > if you were to use GWT (Google Widget Toolkit), you do the programming
> > in Java and it is translated into Javascript.  That way you get all the
> > strict typing of Java but the implementation on the browser without
> > addons.  GWT is of course now entirely open source and integrated into
> > Eclipse quite easily.
> >
> > As I read it much of what is needed for using GWT is already present in
> > Ofbiz, GWT can use JSON as its comms protocol and I think I am right in
> > saying that JSON is supported by Ofbiz.  You could use SOAP but JSON is
> > lighter weight and as the execution environment is javascript is the more
> > native protocol.  GWT does have its own RPC protocol as well, in which
> > case you would have to write the server end in its environment, but there
> > is no requirement to use it, JSON (or even native HTTP) will do perfectly
> > well.
> >
> > David
> >
> > On Tuesday 24 April 2007 04:33, Jonathon -- Improov wrote:
> >> I was actually looking to pump in my enhancements to the Widget module.
> >> I've incorporated some Ajax-facilitating or Ajax-related features
> >> directly into the Widget module, so I won't have to do HUGE .ftl(s).
> >>
> >> Imagine being able to use and reuse a widget-screen for 2 (or more)
> >> purposes: non-ajax operation and ajax operation (pulling down various
> >> sub-sub-parts of the screen).
> >>
> >> In general, I was able to make all listings screens (with the Prev/Next
> >> hrefs) load via Ajax.
> >>
> >> But be warned that this Ajax approach, if carried further, could hark
> >> back to those times when you programmed Java AWTs for rich UIs (events
> >> and concurrency). Except there's lots of javascript involved in this
> >> case, not Java, and bad news is there's no concurrency controls in
> >> javascript. Which means, prepare to get wickedly good at acrobatics in
> >> javascript (obscure acquired taste, really), or deal with the potential
> >> mess and meltdown. Please let me know if there's any experts in
> >> javascript OO and programming here.
> >>
> >> I'm willing to help with Ajax-ing OFBiz. Just let me know if the "nice
> >> addition" Andrew's talking about will go into Opentaps or OFBiz, and
> >> I'll follow. I only need to know if there's any anti-trust case against
> >> the body I'm contributing to.
> >>
> >> Jonathon
> >>
> >> Andrew Zeneski wrote:
> >>> This sounds like it will be a nice addition to OFBiz, I can't wait to
> >>> see the progress!
> >>>
> >>> Andrew
> >>>
> >>> On Apr 23, 2007, at 4:59 PM, Si Chen wrote:
> >>>> If there are any developers interested in working on a CRM system,
> >>>> we're looking for more help here at Open Source Strategies.  We have
> >>>> both full-time openings and part-time paid opportunities, and you can
> >>>> work from home and set your own hours.  You'll have a chance to work
> >>>> with us on a combination of client projects, our open source products,
> >>>> and just cool stuff you're interested in.
> >>>> We're especially looking for developers with strong familiarity with
> >>>> the following areas (though not necessarily just these):
> >>>>
> >>>> 1.  Front end development and Ajax
> >>>> 2.  Integration with external devices, such as mobile phones, handheld
> >>>> devices, etc.
> >>>> 3.  Analytics and reporting
> >>>>
> >>>> If you're interested, please drop me a note off the list.
> >>>>
> >>>> Scott A wrote:
> >>>>> David,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Like I said, I am a user plain and simple so I can’t get into all of
> >>>>> the technical side of things. All I know is that I would like a CRM
> >>>>> portion of
> >>>>> ofbiz similar to how Sugar CRM works but with a good and solid email
> >>>>> client
> >>>>> built in. I guess it would take someone with the interest and
> >>>>> technical ability to put the requirements together first.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> That said, I can only contribute with my wants and needs and some
> >>>>> cash. I'd
> >>>>> be willing to throw $1000 into the hat to get this type of
> >>>>> functionality.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Where do I go from here?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> David E. Jones-2 wrote:
> >>>>>> On Apr 6, 2007, at 10:53 AM, Scott A wrote:
> >>>>>>> I have some help from some service providers setting up the system
> >>>>>>> and we've
> >>>>>>> already started to work on the gui which includes Ajax for easier
> >>>>>>> use. There
> >>>>>>> are also many other options I'd like to have for my business and
> >>>>>>> that hopefully I could give back to the ofbiz community too.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Do you guys have any kind of bounty system or a wish list where
> >>>>>>> likeminded
> >>>>>>> people could collaborate and get things done at a quicker pace?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> For example, I'd like to see a good CRM in the core of ofbiz with
> >>>>>>> something
> >>>>>>> like zimbra being used for the calendaring and email. If this were
> >>>>>>> even
> >>>>>>> feasible and there were likeminded people who would be interested,
> >>>>>>> then we
> >>>>>>> could pool our resources and time, etc.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Any suggestions?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> We don't have a bounty and bid system setup right now, but
> >>>>>> hopefully  soon or at some point some commercial entity in the OFBiz
> >>>>>> community  will do just that. It is something we have talked about,
> >>>>>> and even  using OFBiz to manage it, since about year 2 of the
> >>>>>> project and I  think it would be a really great thing for the
> >>>>>> project, and for  everyone who participates in both funding and
> >>>>>> developing different  things.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Right now the best thing to do is send a message to this list or
> >>>>>> the  dev list to see if anyone is interested in collaborating on
> >>>>>> this and  has enough of a business requirement for it to at least
> >>>>>> help to fund  involvement on their side.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> My guess for something this specific and yet large in scope (ie in
> >>>>>> terms of the amount of work required, probably a few weeks worth)
> >>>>>> no  one will be able to participate for the "fun of it".
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Who knows.... maybe someone will step up and agree with you on how
> >>>>>> cool it would be and start banging on it with you.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> -David

[Tim Ruppert]

David, we did a number of pilots with GWT (and other frameworks) in OFBiz and were much happier with the dojo toolkit.  The GWT, while having the bonus of being able to do everything in java, also required a bit more of a tight coupling with the HTML - which in my mind - made it less desirable.  

JSON is there in case you can show us all a better way of handling it!  Hope that helps.

Cheers,

Tim

--

Tim Ruppert

HotWax Media

http://www.hotwaxmedia.com

o:801.649.6594

f:801.649.6595

On Apr 24, 2007, at 7:06 AM, David Goodenough wrote:

Jonathon,

Probably the best approach would be to write an xslt script which would

parse the OfBiz XML descriptors and generate skeleton code which could

then be subclassed to put in specific processing (it may be possible to

generate the whole thing, I have not looked closely enough).  I am thinking

of something like the juic system used by QtJambi - the new Java binding 

for Qt that Trolltech have currently in beta (juic was actually originally

part of kdebindings but that is another story).

It may sound odd, but actually it is best not to think about HTML and 

Javascript when coding GWT, it just complicates things.  You can include

explicit HTML or Javascript if necessary, but it is better to start from

the position of doing it natively in GWT.  It may be necessary (or desirable)

to write some GWT code to emulate specific OfBiz widgets, I have not looked

closely enough to find out.

David

On Tuesday 24 April 2007 13:22, Jonathon -- Improov wrote:

David,

Seems to me the GWT will generate both the HTML (events) and the Javascript

(event handlers). Is that correct? If so, I'd have to somehow translate the

HTML output to OFBiz widgets. Still, GWT's support for coding in Java is

cool.

Yes, OFBiz supports JSON (via json-lib). I've been using it often in Ajax

work with OFBiz.

Jonathon

David Goodenough wrote:

You ask about whether there are Javascript experts around.  Of course

if you were to use GWT (Google Widget Toolkit), you do the programming

in Java and it is translated into Javascript.  That way you get all the

strict typing of Java but the implementation on the browser without

addons.  GWT is of course now entirely open source and integrated into

Eclipse quite easily.

As I read it much of what is needed for using GWT is already present in

Ofbiz, GWT can use JSON as its comms protocol and I think I am right in

saying that JSON is supported by Ofbiz.  You could use SOAP but JSON is

lighter weight and as the execution environment is javascript is the more

native protocol.  GWT does have its own RPC protocol as well, in which

case you would have to write the server end in its environment, but there

is no requirement to use it, JSON (or even native HTTP) will do perfectly

well.

David

On Tuesday 24 April 2007 04:33, Jonathon -- Improov wrote:

I was actually looking to pump in my enhancements to the Widget module.

I've incorporated some Ajax-facilitating or Ajax-related features

directly into the Widget module, so I won't have to do HUGE .ftl(s).

Imagine being able to use and reuse a widget-screen for 2 (or more)

purposes: non-ajax operation and ajax operation (pulling down various

sub-sub-parts of the screen).

In general, I was able to make all listings screens (with the Prev/Next

hrefs) load via Ajax.

But be warned that this Ajax approach, if carried further, could hark

back to those times when you programmed Java AWTs for rich UIs (events

and concurrency). Except there's lots of javascript involved in this

case, not Java, and bad news is there's no concurrency controls in

javascript. Which means, prepare to get wickedly good at acrobatics in

javascript (obscure acquired taste, really), or deal with the potential

mess and meltdown. Please let me know if there's any experts in

javascript OO and programming here.

I'm willing to help with Ajax-ing OFBiz. Just let me know if the "nice

addition" Andrew's talking about will go into Opentaps or OFBiz, and

I'll follow. I only need to know if there's any anti-trust case against

the body I'm contributing to.

Jonathon

Andrew Zeneski wrote:

This sounds like it will be a nice addition to OFBiz, I can't wait to

see the progress!

Andrew

On Apr 23, 2007, at 4:59 PM, Si Chen wrote:

If there are any developers interested in working on a CRM system,

we're looking for more help here at Open Source Strategies.  We have

both full-time openings and part-time paid opportunities, and you can

work from home and set your own hours.  You'll have a chance to work

with us on a combination of client projects, our open source products,

and just cool stuff you're interested in.

We're especially looking for developers with strong familiarity with

the following areas (though not necessarily just these):

1.  Front end development and Ajax

2.  Integration with external devices, such as mobile phones, handheld

devices, etc.

3.  Analytics and reporting

If you're interested, please drop me a note off the list.

Scott A wrote:

David,

Like I said, I am a user plain and simple so I can’t get into all of

the technical side of things. All I know is that I would like a CRM

portion of

ofbiz similar to how Sugar CRM works but with a good and solid email

client

built in. I guess it would take someone with the interest and

technical ability to put the requirements together first.

That said, I can only contribute with my wants and needs and some

cash. I'd

be willing to throw $1000 into the hat to get this type of

functionality.

Where do I go from here?

David E. Jones-2 wrote:

On Apr 6, 2007, at 10:53 AM, Scott A wrote:

I have some help from some service providers setting up the system

and we've

already started to work on the gui which includes Ajax for easier

use. There

are also many other options I'd like to have for my business and

that hopefully I could give back to the ofbiz community too.

Do you guys have any kind of bounty system or a wish list where

likeminded

people could collaborate and get things done at a quicker pace?

For example, I'd like to see a good CRM in the core of ofbiz with

something

like zimbra being used for the calendaring and email. If this were

even

feasible and there were likeminded people who would be interested,

then we

could pool our resources and time, etc.

Any suggestions?

We don't have a bounty and bid system setup right now, but

hopefully  soon or at some point some commercial entity in the OFBiz

community  will do just that. It is something we have talked about,

and even  using OFBiz to manage it, since about year 2 of the

project and I  think it would be a really great thing for the

project, and for  everyone who participates in both funding and

developing different  things.

Right now the best thing to do is send a message to this list or

the  dev list to see if anyone is interested in collaborating on

this and  has enough of a business requirement for it to at least

help to fund  involvement on their side.

My guess for something this specific and yet large in scope (ie in

terms of the amount of work required, probably a few weeks worth)

no  one will be able to participate for the "fun of it".

Who knows.... maybe someone will step up and agree with you on how

cool it would be and start banging on it with you.

-David

[David Goodenough]

Tim,

I am not at all sure what you mean by "tight coupling with the HTML".
As you never (or should never) write any HTML as part of the GWT code
this makes no sense.  Yes the GWT controls are mapped to HTML, but you
can make your own controls quite easily, and integrate them into the
GWT framework so you are not limited to what simple HTML widgets can
do.

But I am merely a bystander when it comes to OfBiz, so it is for others
to decide.  What I was reacting to was the thought that getting Javascript
expertise into OfBiz might be difficult, and so doing things in Java makes
a lot of sense.  Personally I find Javascript to be a problematic language,
it is very powerful, almost too powerful - you can almost redefine the
language as you go along - but being interpreted and not type safe in the
way that Java is makes it a much more difficult language to use well.

David

On Tuesday 24 April 2007 14:39, Tim Ruppert wrote:

> David, we did a number of pilots with GWT (and other frameworks) in
> OFBiz and were much happier with the dojo toolkit.  The GWT, while
> having the bonus of being able to do everything in java, also
> required a bit more of a tight coupling with the HTML - which in my
> mind - made it less desirable.
>
> JSON is there in case you can show us all a better way of handling
> it!  Hope that helps.
>
> Cheers,
> Tim
> --
> Tim Ruppert
> HotWax Media
> http://www.hotwaxmedia.com
>
> o:801.649.6594
> f:801.649.6595
>
> On Apr 24, 2007, at 7:06 AM, David Goodenough wrote:
> > Jonathon,
> >
> > Probably the best approach would be to write an xslt script which
> > would
> > parse the OfBiz XML descriptors and generate skeleton code which could
> > then be subclassed to put in specific processing (it may be
> > possible to
> > generate the whole thing, I have not looked closely enough).  I am
> > thinking
> > of something like the juic system used by QtJambi - the new Java
> > binding
> > for Qt that Trolltech have currently in beta (juic was actually
> > originally
> > part of kdebindings but that is another story).
> >
> > It may sound odd, but actually it is best not to think about HTML and
> > Javascript when coding GWT, it just complicates things.  You can
> > include
> > explicit HTML or Javascript if necessary, but it is better to start
> > from
> > the position of doing it natively in GWT.  It may be necessary (or
> > desirable)
> > to write some GWT code to emulate specific OfBiz widgets, I have
> > not looked
> > closely enough to find out.
> >
> > David
> >
> > On Tuesday 24 April 2007 13:22, Jonathon -- Improov wrote:
> >> David,
> >>
> >> Seems to me the GWT will generate both the HTML (events) and the
> >> Javascript
> >> (event handlers). Is that correct? If so, I'd have to somehow
> >> translate the
> >> HTML output to OFBiz widgets. Still, GWT's support for coding in
> >> Java is
> >> cool.
> >>
> >> Yes, OFBiz supports JSON (via json-lib). I've been using it often
> >> in Ajax
> >> work with OFBiz.
> >>
> >> Jonathon
> >>
> >> David Goodenough wrote:
> >>> You ask about whether there are Javascript experts around.  Of
> >>> course
> >>> if you were to use GWT (Google Widget Toolkit), you do the
> >>> programming
> >>> in Java and it is translated into Javascript.  That way you get
> >>> all the
> >>> strict typing of Java but the implementation on the browser without
> >>> addons.  GWT is of course now entirely open source and integrated
> >>> into
> >>> Eclipse quite easily.
> >>>
> >>> As I read it much of what is needed for using GWT is already
> >>> present in
> >>> Ofbiz, GWT can use JSON as its comms protocol and I think I am
> >>> right in
> >>> saying that JSON is supported by Ofbiz.  You could use SOAP but
> >>> JSON is
> >>> lighter weight and as the execution environment is javascript is
> >>> the more
> >>> native protocol.  GWT does have its own RPC protocol as well, in
> >>> which
> >>> case you would have to write the server end in its environment,
> >>> but there
> >>> is no requirement to use it, JSON (or even native HTTP) will do
> >>> perfectly
> >>> well.
> >>>
> >>> David
> >>>
> >>> On Tuesday 24 April 2007 04:33, Jonathon -- Improov wrote:
> >>>> I was actually looking to pump in my enhancements to the Widget
> >>>> module.
> >>>> I've incorporated some Ajax-facilitating or Ajax-related features
> >>>> directly into the Widget module, so I won't have to do HUGE .ftl
> >>>> (s).
> >>>>
> >>>> Imagine being able to use and reuse a widget-screen for 2 (or more)
> >>>> purposes: non-ajax operation and ajax operation (pulling down
> >>>> various
> >>>> sub-sub-parts of the screen).
> >>>>
> >>>> In general, I was able to make all listings screens (with the
> >>>> Prev/Next
> >>>> hrefs) load via Ajax.
> >>>>
> >>>> But be warned that this Ajax approach, if carried further, could
> >>>> hark
> >>>> back to those times when you programmed Java AWTs for rich UIs
> >>>> (events
> >>>> and concurrency). Except there's lots of javascript involved in
> >>>> this
> >>>> case, not Java, and bad news is there's no concurrency controls in
> >>>> javascript. Which means, prepare to get wickedly good at
> >>>> acrobatics in
> >>>> javascript (obscure acquired taste, really), or deal with the
> >>>> potential
> >>>> mess and meltdown. Please let me know if there's any experts in
> >>>> javascript OO and programming here.
> >>>>
> >>>> I'm willing to help with Ajax-ing OFBiz. Just let me know if the
> >>>> "nice
> >>>> addition" Andrew's talking about will go into Opentaps or OFBiz,
> >>>> and
> >>>> I'll follow. I only need to know if there's any anti-trust case
> >>>> against
> >>>> the body I'm contributing to.
> >>>>
> >>>> Jonathon
> >>>>
> >>>> Andrew Zeneski wrote:
> >>>>> This sounds like it will be a nice addition to OFBiz, I can't
> >>>>> wait to
> >>>>> see the progress!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Andrew
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Apr 23, 2007, at 4:59 PM, Si Chen wrote:
> >>>>>> If there are any developers interested in working on a CRM
> >>>>>> system,
> >>>>>> we're looking for more help here at Open Source Strategies.
> >>>>>> We have
> >>>>>> both full-time openings and part-time paid opportunities, and
> >>>>>> you can
> >>>>>> work from home and set your own hours.  You'll have a chance
> >>>>>> to work
> >>>>>> with us on a combination of client projects, our open source
> >>>>>> products,
> >>>>>> and just cool stuff you're interested in.
> >>>>>> We're especially looking for developers with strong
> >>>>>> familiarity with
> >>>>>> the following areas (though not necessarily just these):
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 1.  Front end development and Ajax
> >>>>>> 2.  Integration with external devices, such as mobile phones,
> >>>>>> handheld
> >>>>>> devices, etc.
> >>>>>> 3.  Analytics and reporting
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> If you're interested, please drop me a note off the list.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Scott A wrote:
> >>>>>>> David,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Like I said, I am a user plain and simple so I can’t get into
> >>>>>>> all of
> >>>>>>> the technical side of things. All I know is that I would like
> >>>>>>> a CRM
> >>>>>>> portion of
> >>>>>>> ofbiz similar to how Sugar CRM works but with a good and
> >>>>>>> solid email
> >>>>>>> client
> >>>>>>> built in. I guess it would take someone with the interest and
> >>>>>>> technical ability to put the requirements together first.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> That said, I can only contribute with my wants and needs and
> >>>>>>> some
> >>>>>>> cash. I'd
> >>>>>>> be willing to throw $1000 into the hat to get this type of
> >>>>>>> functionality.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Where do I go from here?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> David E. Jones-2 wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On Apr 6, 2007, at 10:53 AM, Scott A wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> I have some help from some service providers setting up the
> >>>>>>>>> system
> >>>>>>>>> and we've
> >>>>>>>>> already started to work on the gui which includes Ajax for
> >>>>>>>>> easier
> >>>>>>>>> use. There
> >>>>>>>>> are also many other options I'd like to have for my
> >>>>>>>>> business and
> >>>>>>>>> that hopefully I could give back to the ofbiz community too.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Do you guys have any kind of bounty system or a wish list
> >>>>>>>>> where
> >>>>>>>>> likeminded
> >>>>>>>>> people could collaborate and get things done at a quicker
> >>>>>>>>> pace?
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> For example, I'd like to see a good CRM in the core of
> >>>>>>>>> ofbiz with
> >>>>>>>>> something
> >>>>>>>>> like zimbra being used for the calendaring and email. If
> >>>>>>>>> this were
> >>>>>>>>> even
> >>>>>>>>> feasible and there were likeminded people who would be
> >>>>>>>>> interested,
> >>>>>>>>> then we
> >>>>>>>>> could pool our resources and time, etc.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Any suggestions?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> We don't have a bounty and bid system setup right now, but
> >>>>>>>> hopefully  soon or at some point some commercial entity in
> >>>>>>>> the OFBiz
> >>>>>>>> community  will do just that. It is something we have talked
> >>>>>>>> about,
> >>>>>>>> and even  using OFBiz to manage it, since about year 2 of the
> >>>>>>>> project and I  think it would be a really great thing for the
> >>>>>>>> project, and for  everyone who participates in both funding and
> >>>>>>>> developing different  things.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Right now the best thing to do is send a message to this
> >>>>>>>> list or
> >>>>>>>> the  dev list to see if anyone is interested in
> >>>>>>>> collaborating on
> >>>>>>>> this and  has enough of a business requirement for it to at
> >>>>>>>> least
> >>>>>>>> help to fund  involvement on their side.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> My guess for something this specific and yet large in scope
> >>>>>>>> (ie in
> >>>>>>>> terms of the amount of work required, probably a few weeks
> >>>>>>>> worth)
> >>>>>>>> no  one will be able to participate for the "fun of it".
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Who knows.... maybe someone will step up and agree with you
> >>>>>>>> on how
> >>>>>>>> cool it would be and start banging on it with you.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> -David

[cjhowe]

In that case, what would be the likelihood of being able to create a
renderer for it?

--- David Goodenough <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Tim,
>
> I am not at all sure what you mean by "tight coupling with the HTML".
> As you never (or should never) write any HTML as part of the GWT code
> this makes no sense.  Yes the GWT controls are mapped to HTML, but
> you
> can make your own controls quite easily, and integrate them into the
> GWT framework so you are not limited to what simple HTML widgets can
> do.
>
> But I am merely a bystander when it comes to OfBiz, so it is for
> others
> to decide.  What I was reacting to was the thought that getting
> Javascript
> expertise into OfBiz might be difficult, and so doing things in Java
> makes
> a lot of sense.  Personally I find Javascript to be a problematic
> language,
> it is very powerful, almost too powerful - you can almost redefine
> the
> language as you go along - but being interpreted and not type safe in
> the
> way that Java is makes it a much more difficult language to use well.
>
> David
>
> On Tuesday 24 April 2007 14:39, Tim Ruppert wrote:
> > David, we did a number of pilots with GWT (and other frameworks) in
> > OFBiz and were much happier with the dojo toolkit.  The GWT, while
> > having the bonus of being able to do everything in java, also
> > required a bit more of a tight coupling with the HTML - which in my
> > mind - made it less desirable.
> >
> > JSON is there in case you can show us all a better way of handling
> > it!  Hope that helps.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Tim
> > --
> > Tim Ruppert
> > HotWax Media
> > http://www.hotwaxmedia.com
> >
> > o:801.649.6594
> > f:801.649.6595
> >
> > On Apr 24, 2007, at 7:06 AM, David Goodenough wrote:
> > > Jonathon,
> > >
> > > Probably the best approach would be to write an xslt script which
> > > would
> > > parse the OfBiz XML descriptors and generate skeleton code which
> could
> > > then be subclassed to put in specific processing (it may be
> > > possible to
> > > generate the whole thing, I have not looked closely enough).  I
> am
> > > thinking
> > > of something like the juic system used by QtJambi - the new Java
> > > binding
> > > for Qt that Trolltech have currently in beta (juic was actually
> > > originally
> > > part of kdebindings but that is another story).
> > >
> > > It may sound odd, but actually it is best not to think about HTML
> and
> > > Javascript when coding GWT, it just complicates things.  You can
> > > include
> > > explicit HTML or Javascript if necessary, but it is better to
> start
> > > from
> > > the position of doing it natively in GWT.  It may be necessary
> (or
> > > desirable)
> > > to write some GWT code to emulate specific OfBiz widgets, I have
> > > not looked
> > > closely enough to find out.
> > >
> > > David
> > >
> > > On Tuesday 24 April 2007 13:22, Jonathon -- Improov wrote:
> > >> David,
> > >>
> > >> Seems to me the GWT will generate both the HTML (events) and the
> > >> Javascript
> > >> (event handlers). Is that correct? If so, I'd have to somehow
> > >> translate the
> > >> HTML output to OFBiz widgets. Still, GWT's support for coding in
> > >> Java is
> > >> cool.
> > >>
> > >> Yes, OFBiz supports JSON (via json-lib). I've been using it
> often
> > >> in Ajax
> > >> work with OFBiz.
> > >>
> > >> Jonathon
> > >>
> > >> David Goodenough wrote:
> > >>> You ask about whether there are Javascript experts around.  Of
> > >>> course
> > >>> if you were to use GWT (Google Widget Toolkit), you do the
> > >>> programming
> > >>> in Java and it is translated into Javascript.  That way you get
> > >>> all the
> > >>> strict typing of Java but the implementation on the browser
> without
> > >>> addons.  GWT is of course now entirely open source and
> integrated
> > >>> into
> > >>> Eclipse quite easily.
> > >>>
> > >>> As I read it much of what is needed for using GWT is already
> > >>> present in
> > >>> Ofbiz, GWT can use JSON as its comms protocol and I think I am
> > >>> right in
> > >>> saying that JSON is supported by Ofbiz.  You could use SOAP but
> > >>> JSON is
> > >>> lighter weight and as the execution environment is javascript
> is
> > >>> the more
> > >>> native protocol.  GWT does have its own RPC protocol as well,
> in
> > >>> which
> > >>> case you would have to write the server end in its environment,
> > >>> but there
> > >>> is no requirement to use it, JSON (or even native HTTP) will do
> > >>> perfectly
> > >>> well.
> > >>>
> > >>> David
> > >>>
> > >>> On Tuesday 24 April 2007 04:33, Jonathon -- Improov wrote:
> > >>>> I was actually looking to pump in my enhancements to the
> Widget
> > >>>> module.
> > >>>> I've incorporated some Ajax-facilitating or Ajax-related
> features
> > >>>> directly into the Widget module, so I won't have to do HUGE
> .ftl
> > >>>> (s).
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Imagine being able to use and reuse a widget-screen for 2 (or
> more)
> > >>>> purposes: non-ajax operation and ajax operation (pulling down
> > >>>> various
> > >>>> sub-sub-parts of the screen).
> > >>>>
> > >>>> In general, I was able to make all listings screens (with the
> > >>>> Prev/Next
> > >>>> hrefs) load via Ajax.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> But be warned that this Ajax approach, if carried further,
> could
> > >>>> hark
> > >>>> back to those times when you programmed Java AWTs for rich UIs
> > >>>> (events
> > >>>> and concurrency). Except there's lots of javascript involved
> in
> > >>>> this
> > >>>> case, not Java, and bad news is there's no concurrency
> controls in
> > >>>> javascript. Which means, prepare to get wickedly good at
> > >>>> acrobatics in
> > >>>> javascript (obscure acquired taste, really), or deal with the
> > >>>> potential
> > >>>> mess and meltdown. Please let me know if there's any experts
> in
> > >>>> javascript OO and programming here.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I'm willing to help with Ajax-ing OFBiz. Just let me know if
> the
> > >>>> "nice
> > >>>> addition" Andrew's talking about will go into Opentaps or
> OFBiz,
> > >>>> and
> > >>>> I'll follow. I only need to know if there's any anti-trust
> case
> > >>>> against
> > >>>> the body I'm contributing to.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Jonathon
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Andrew Zeneski wrote:
> > >>>>> This sounds like it will be a nice addition to OFBiz, I can't
> > >>>>> wait to
> > >>>>> see the progress!
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Andrew
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> On Apr 23, 2007, at 4:59 PM, Si Chen wrote:
> > >>>>>> If there are any developers interested in working on a CRM
> > >>>>>> system,
> > >>>>>> we're looking for more help here at Open Source Strategies.
> > >>>>>> We have
> > >>>>>> both full-time openings and part-time paid opportunities,
> and
> > >>>>>> you can
> > >>>>>> work from home and set your own hours.  You'll have a chance
> > >>>>>> to work
> > >>>>>> with us on a combination of client projects, our open source
>

=== message truncated ===

[David Goodenough]

I have not looked in detail, but given that OfBiz has an abstract
definition of the UI and the processing it should be possible to
have an xslt transform that generates a set of GWT java source that
can be compiled and then used by the browser.  Doing it dynamically
would not seem sensible, but the code only needs to be regenerated
when the UI definition changes.

David

On Tuesday 24 April 2007 16:11, Chris Howe wrote:

> In that case, what would be the likelihood of being able to create a
> renderer for it?
>
> --- David Goodenough <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Tim,
> >
> > I am not at all sure what you mean by "tight coupling with the HTML".
> > As you never (or should never) write any HTML as part of the GWT code
> > this makes no sense.  Yes the GWT controls are mapped to HTML, but
> > you
> > can make your own controls quite easily, and integrate them into the
> > GWT framework so you are not limited to what simple HTML widgets can
> > do.
> >
> > But I am merely a bystander when it comes to OfBiz, so it is for
> > others
> > to decide.  What I was reacting to was the thought that getting
> > Javascript
> > expertise into OfBiz might be difficult, and so doing things in Java
> > makes
> > a lot of sense.  Personally I find Javascript to be a problematic
> > language,
> > it is very powerful, almost too powerful - you can almost redefine
> > the
> > language as you go along - but being interpreted and not type safe in
> > the
> > way that Java is makes it a much more difficult language to use well.
> >
> > David
> >
> > On Tuesday 24 April 2007 14:39, Tim Ruppert wrote:
> > > David, we did a number of pilots with GWT (and other frameworks) in
> > > OFBiz and were much happier with the dojo toolkit.  The GWT, while
> > > having the bonus of being able to do everything in java, also
> > > required a bit more of a tight coupling with the HTML - which in my
> > > mind - made it less desirable.
> > >
> > > JSON is there in case you can show us all a better way of handling
> > > it!  Hope that helps.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Tim
> > > --
> > > Tim Ruppert
> > > HotWax Media
> > > http://www.hotwaxmedia.com
> > >
> > > o:801.649.6594
> > > f:801.649.6595
> > >
> > > On Apr 24, 2007, at 7:06 AM, David Goodenough wrote:
> > > > Jonathon,
> > > >
> > > > Probably the best approach would be to write an xslt script which
> > > > would
> > > > parse the OfBiz XML descriptors and generate skeleton code which
> >
> > could
> >
> > > > then be subclassed to put in specific processing (it may be
> > > > possible to
> > > > generate the whole thing, I have not looked closely enough).  I
> >
> > am
> >
> > > > thinking
> > > > of something like the juic system used by QtJambi - the new Java
> > > > binding
> > > > for Qt that Trolltech have currently in beta (juic was actually
> > > > originally
> > > > part of kdebindings but that is another story).
> > > >
> > > > It may sound odd, but actually it is best not to think about HTML
> >
> > and
> >
> > > > Javascript when coding GWT, it just complicates things.  You can
> > > > include
> > > > explicit HTML or Javascript if necessary, but it is better to
> >
> > start
> >
> > > > from
> > > > the position of doing it natively in GWT.  It may be necessary
> >
> > (or
> >
> > > > desirable)
> > > > to write some GWT code to emulate specific OfBiz widgets, I have
> > > > not looked
> > > > closely enough to find out.
> > > >
> > > > David
> > > >
> > > > On Tuesday 24 April 2007 13:22, Jonathon -- Improov wrote:
> > > >> David,
> > > >>
> > > >> Seems to me the GWT will generate both the HTML (events) and the
> > > >> Javascript
> > > >> (event handlers). Is that correct? If so, I'd have to somehow
> > > >> translate the
> > > >> HTML output to OFBiz widgets. Still, GWT's support for coding in
> > > >> Java is
> > > >> cool.
> > > >>
> > > >> Yes, OFBiz supports JSON (via json-lib). I've been using it
> >
> > often
> >
> > > >> in Ajax
> > > >> work with OFBiz.
> > > >>
> > > >> Jonathon
> > > >>
> > > >> David Goodenough wrote:
> > > >>> You ask about whether there are Javascript experts around.  Of
> > > >>> course
> > > >>> if you were to use GWT (Google Widget Toolkit), you do the
> > > >>> programming
> > > >>> in Java and it is translated into Javascript.  That way you get
> > > >>> all the
> > > >>> strict typing of Java but the implementation on the browser
> >
> > without
> >
> > > >>> addons.  GWT is of course now entirely open source and
> >
> > integrated
> >
> > > >>> into
> > > >>> Eclipse quite easily.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> As I read it much of what is needed for using GWT is already
> > > >>> present in
> > > >>> Ofbiz, GWT can use JSON as its comms protocol and I think I am
> > > >>> right in
> > > >>> saying that JSON is supported by Ofbiz.  You could use SOAP but
> > > >>> JSON is
> > > >>> lighter weight and as the execution environment is javascript
> >
> > is
> >
> > > >>> the more
> > > >>> native protocol.  GWT does have its own RPC protocol as well,
> >
> > in
> >
> > > >>> which
> > > >>> case you would have to write the server end in its environment,
> > > >>> but there
> > > >>> is no requirement to use it, JSON (or even native HTTP) will do
> > > >>> perfectly
> > > >>> well.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> David
> > > >>>
> > > >>> On Tuesday 24 April 2007 04:33, Jonathon -- Improov wrote:
> > > >>>> I was actually looking to pump in my enhancements to the
> >
> > Widget
> >
> > > >>>> module.
> > > >>>> I've incorporated some Ajax-facilitating or Ajax-related
> >
> > features
> >
> > > >>>> directly into the Widget module, so I won't have to do HUGE
> >
> > .ftl
> >
> > > >>>> (s).
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Imagine being able to use and reuse a widget-screen for 2 (or
> >
> > more)
> >
> > > >>>> purposes: non-ajax operation and ajax operation (pulling down
> > > >>>> various
> > > >>>> sub-sub-parts of the screen).
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> In general, I was able to make all listings screens (with the
> > > >>>> Prev/Next
> > > >>>> hrefs) load via Ajax.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> But be warned that this Ajax approach, if carried further,
> >
> > could
> >
> > > >>>> hark
> > > >>>> back to those times when you programmed Java AWTs for rich UIs
> > > >>>> (events
> > > >>>> and concurrency). Except there's lots of javascript involved
> >
> > in
> >
> > > >>>> this
> > > >>>> case, not Java, and bad news is there's no concurrency
> >
> > controls in
> >
> > > >>>> javascript. Which means, prepare to get wickedly good at
> > > >>>> acrobatics in
> > > >>>> javascript (obscure acquired taste, really), or deal with the
> > > >>>> potential
> > > >>>> mess and meltdown. Please let me know if there's any experts
> >
> > in
> >
> > > >>>> javascript OO and programming here.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> I'm willing to help with Ajax-ing OFBiz. Just let me know if
> >
> > the
> >
> > > >>>> "nice
> > > >>>> addition" Andrew's talking about will go into Opentaps or
> >
> > OFBiz,
> >
> > > >>>> and
> > > >>>> I'll follow. I only need to know if there's any anti-trust
> >
> > case
> >
> > > >>>> against
> > > >>>> the body I'm contributing to.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Jonathon
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Andrew Zeneski wrote:
> > > >>>>> This sounds like it will be a nice addition to OFBiz, I can't
> > > >>>>> wait to
> > > >>>>> see the progress!
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Andrew
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> On Apr 23, 2007, at 4:59 PM, Si Chen wrote:
> > > >>>>>> If there are any developers interested in working on a CRM
> > > >>>>>> system,
> > > >>>>>> we're looking for more help here at Open Source Strategies.
> > > >>>>>> We have
> > > >>>>>> both full-time openings and part-time paid opportunities,
> >
> > and
> >
> > > >>>>>> you can
> > > >>>>>> work from home and set your own hours.  You'll have a chance
> > > >>>>>> to work
> > > >>>>>> with us on a combination of client projects, our open source
>
> === message truncated ===

[BJ Freeman]

I have a tool that creates SWT code.
the problem with JAVA based UI is that the application runs on the
client not the web server. So a interface has to be written to
communication with the ofbiz.

Where I am going with this, is the Widgets xml is converted already in
ofbiz. So I would liked to see more functionality built into the
widgets, where possible, instead of having redundant functionality, in
some other form.

For Java UI applications, I would like to see a standard interface
fleshed out for communication to Ofbiz. Then each developer can use
his/her favorite UI code to build on.



David Goodenough sent the following on 4/24/2007 8:24 AM:

> I have not looked in detail, but given that OfBiz has an abstract
> definition of the UI and the processing it should be possible to
> have an xslt transform that generates a set of GWT java source that
> can be compiled and then used by the browser.  Doing it dynamically
> would not seem sensible, but the code only needs to be regenerated
> when the UI definition changes.
>
> David
>
> On Tuesday 24 April 2007 16:11, Chris Howe wrote:
>> In that case, what would be the likelihood of being able to create a
>> renderer for it?
>>
>> --- David Goodenough <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Tim,
>>>
>>> I am not at all sure what you mean by "tight coupling with the HTML".
>>> As you never (or should never) write any HTML as part of the GWT code
>>> this makes no sense.  Yes the GWT controls are mapped to HTML, but
>>> you
>>> can make your own controls quite easily, and integrate them into the
>>> GWT framework so you are not limited to what simple HTML widgets can
>>> do.
>>>
>>> But I am merely a bystander when it comes to OfBiz, so it is for
>>> others
>>> to decide.  What I was reacting to was the thought that getting
>>> Javascript
>>> expertise into OfBiz might be difficult, and so doing things in Java
>>> makes
>>> a lot of sense.  Personally I find Javascript to be a problematic
>>> language,
>>> it is very powerful, almost too powerful - you can almost redefine
>>> the
>>> language as you go along - but being interpreted and not type safe in
>>> the
>>> way that Java is makes it a much more difficult language to use well.
>>>
>>> David
>>>
>>> On Tuesday 24 April 2007 14:39, Tim Ruppert wrote:
>>>> David, we did a number of pilots with GWT (and other frameworks) in
>>>> OFBiz and were much happier with the dojo toolkit.  The GWT, while
>>>> having the bonus of being able to do everything in java, also
>>>> required a bit more of a tight coupling with the HTML - which in my
>>>> mind - made it less desirable.
>>>>
>>>> JSON is there in case you can show us all a better way of handling
>>>> it!  Hope that helps.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Tim
>>>> --
>>>> Tim Ruppert
>>>> HotWax Media
>>>> http://www.hotwaxmedia.com
>>>>
>>>> o:801.649.6594
>>>> f:801.649.6595
>>>>
>>>> On Apr 24, 2007, at 7:06 AM, David Goodenough wrote:
>>>>> Jonathon,
>>>>>
>>>>> Probably the best approach would be to write an xslt script which
>>>>> would
>>>>> parse the OfBiz XML descriptors and generate skeleton code which
>>> could
>>>
>>>>> then be subclassed to put in specific processing (it may be
>>>>> possible to
>>>>> generate the whole thing, I have not looked closely enough).  I
>>> am
>>>
>>>>> thinking
>>>>> of something like the juic system used by QtJambi - the new Java
>>>>> binding
>>>>> for Qt that Trolltech have currently in beta (juic was actually
>>>>> originally
>>>>> part of kdebindings but that is another story).
>>>>>
>>>>> It may sound odd, but actually it is best not to think about HTML
>>> and
>>>
>>>>> Javascript when coding GWT, it just complicates things.  You can
>>>>> include
>>>>> explicit HTML or Javascript if necessary, but it is better to
>>> start
>>>
>>>>> from
>>>>> the position of doing it natively in GWT.  It may be necessary
>>> (or
>>>
>>>>> desirable)
>>>>> to write some GWT code to emulate specific OfBiz widgets, I have
>>>>> not looked
>>>>> closely enough to find out.
>>>>>
>>>>> David
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tuesday 24 April 2007 13:22, Jonathon -- Improov wrote:
>>>>>> David,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Seems to me the GWT will generate both the HTML (events) and the
>>>>>> Javascript
>>>>>> (event handlers). Is that correct? If so, I'd have to somehow
>>>>>> translate the
>>>>>> HTML output to OFBiz widgets. Still, GWT's support for coding in
>>>>>> Java is
>>>>>> cool.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, OFBiz supports JSON (via json-lib). I've been using it
>>> often
>>>
>>>>>> in Ajax
>>>>>> work with OFBiz.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jonathon
>>>>>>
>>>>>> David Goodenough wrote:
>>>>>>> You ask about whether there are Javascript experts around.  Of
>>>>>>> course
>>>>>>> if you were to use GWT (Google Widget Toolkit), you do the
>>>>>>> programming
>>>>>>> in Java and it is translated into Javascript.  That way you get
>>>>>>> all the
>>>>>>> strict typing of Java but the implementation on the browser
>>> without
>>>
>>>>>>> addons.  GWT is of course now entirely open source and
>>> integrated
>>>
>>>>>>> into
>>>>>>> Eclipse quite easily.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As I read it much of what is needed for using GWT is already
>>>>>>> present in
>>>>>>> Ofbiz, GWT can use JSON as its comms protocol and I think I am
>>>>>>> right in
>>>>>>> saying that JSON is supported by Ofbiz.  You could use SOAP but
>>>>>>> JSON is
>>>>>>> lighter weight and as the execution environment is javascript
>>> is
>>>
>>>>>>> the more
>>>>>>> native protocol.  GWT does have its own RPC protocol as well,
>>> in
>>>
>>>>>>> which
>>>>>>> case you would have to write the server end in its environment,
>>>>>>> but there
>>>>>>> is no requirement to use it, JSON (or even native HTTP) will do
>>>>>>> perfectly
>>>>>>> well.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> David
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tuesday 24 April 2007 04:33, Jonathon -- Improov wrote:
>>>>>>>> I was actually looking to pump in my enhancements to the
>>> Widget
>>>
>>>>>>>> module.
>>>>>>>> I've incorporated some Ajax-facilitating or Ajax-related
>>> features
>>>
>>>>>>>> directly into the Widget module, so I won't have to do HUGE
>>> .ftl
>>>
>>>>>>>> (s).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Imagine being able to use and reuse a widget-screen for 2 (or
>>> more)
>>>
>>>>>>>> purposes: non-ajax operation and ajax operation (pulling down
>>>>>>>> various
>>>>>>>> sub-sub-parts of the screen).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In general, I was able to make all listings screens (with the
>>>>>>>> Prev/Next
>>>>>>>> hrefs) load via Ajax.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But be warned that this Ajax approach, if carried further,
>>> could
>>>
>>>>>>>> hark
>>>>>>>> back to those times when you programmed Java AWTs for rich UIs
>>>>>>>> (events
>>>>>>>> and concurrency). Except there's lots of javascript involved
>>> in
>>>
>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>> case, not Java, and bad news is there's no concurrency
>>> controls in
>>>
>>>>>>>> javascript. Which means, prepare to get wickedly good at
>>>>>>>> acrobatics in
>>>>>>>> javascript (obscure acquired taste, really), or deal with the
>>>>>>>> potential
>>>>>>>> mess and meltdown. Please let me know if there's any experts
>>> in
>>>
>>>>>>>> javascript OO and programming here.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm willing to help with Ajax-ing OFBiz. Just let me know if
>>> the
>>>
>>>>>>>> "nice
>>>>>>>> addition" Andrew's talking about will go into Opentaps or
>>> OFBiz,
>>>
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> I'll follow. I only need to know if there's any anti-trust
>>> case
>>>
>>>>>>>> against
>>>>>>>> the body I'm contributing to.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jonathon
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Andrew Zeneski wrote:
>>>>>>>>> This sounds like it will be a nice addition to OFBiz, I can't
>>>>>>>>> wait to
>>>>>>>>> see the progress!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Andrew
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Apr 23, 2007, at 4:59 PM, Si Chen wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> If there are any developers interested in working on a CRM
>>>>>>>>>> system,
>>>>>>>>>> we're looking for more help here at Open Source Strategies.
>>>>>>>>>> We have
>>>>>>>>>> both full-time openings and part-time paid opportunities,
>>> and
>>>
>>>>>>>>>> you can
>>>>>>>>>> work from home and set your own hours.  You'll have a chance
>>>>>>>>>> to work
>>>>>>>>>> with us on a combination of client projects, our open source
>> === message truncated ===
>
>
>

[David Goodenough]

Surely that is what JSON is for.  It is just a javascript based RPC
mechanism.  Having the UI code on the client rather than the server
is a good thing, its a perfectly good of the MVC models, and it means
that it can be very responsive to the user and feels like a normal
PC application.

David

On Tuesday 24 April 2007 18:52, BJ Freeman wrote:

> I have a tool that creates SWT code.
> the problem with JAVA based UI is that the application runs on the
> client not the web server. So a interface has to be written to
> communication with the ofbiz.
>
> Where I am going with this, is the Widgets xml is converted already in
> ofbiz. So I would liked to see more functionality built into the
> widgets, where possible, instead of having redundant functionality, in
> some other form.
>
> For Java UI applications, I would like to see a standard interface
> fleshed out for communication to Ofbiz. Then each developer can use
> his/her favorite UI code to build on.
>
> David Goodenough sent the following on 4/24/2007 8:24 AM:
> > I have not looked in detail, but given that OfBiz has an abstract
> > definition of the UI and the processing it should be possible to
> > have an xslt transform that generates a set of GWT java source that
> > can be compiled and then used by the browser.  Doing it dynamically
> > would not seem sensible, but the code only needs to be regenerated
> > when the UI definition changes.
> >
> > David
> >
> > On Tuesday 24 April 2007 16:11, Chris Howe wrote:
> >> In that case, what would be the likelihood of being able to create a
> >> renderer for it?
> >>
> >> --- David Goodenough <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>> Tim,
> >>>
> >>> I am not at all sure what you mean by "tight coupling with the HTML".
> >>> As you never (or should never) write any HTML as part of the GWT code
> >>> this makes no sense.  Yes the GWT controls are mapped to HTML, but
> >>> you
> >>> can make your own controls quite easily, and integrate them into the
> >>> GWT framework so you are not limited to what simple HTML widgets can
> >>> do.
> >>>
> >>> But I am merely a bystander when it comes to OfBiz, so it is for
> >>> others
> >>> to decide.  What I was reacting to was the thought that getting
> >>> Javascript
> >>> expertise into OfBiz might be difficult, and so doing things in Java
> >>> makes
> >>> a lot of sense.  Personally I find Javascript to be a problematic
> >>> language,
> >>> it is very powerful, almost too powerful - you can almost redefine
> >>> the
> >>> language as you go along - but being interpreted and not type safe in
> >>> the
> >>> way that Java is makes it a much more difficult language to use well.
> >>>
> >>> David
> >>>
> >>> On Tuesday 24 April 2007 14:39, Tim Ruppert wrote:
> >>>> David, we did a number of pilots with GWT (and other frameworks) in
> >>>> OFBiz and were much happier with the dojo toolkit.  The GWT, while
> >>>> having the bonus of being able to do everything in java, also
> >>>> required a bit more of a tight coupling with the HTML - which in my
> >>>> mind - made it less desirable.
> >>>>
> >>>> JSON is there in case you can show us all a better way of handling
> >>>> it!  Hope that helps.
> >>>>
> >>>> Cheers,
> >>>> Tim
> >>>> --
> >>>> Tim Ruppert
> >>>> HotWax Media
> >>>> http://www.hotwaxmedia.com
> >>>>
> >>>> o:801.649.6594
> >>>> f:801.649.6595
> >>>>
> >>>> On Apr 24, 2007, at 7:06 AM, David Goodenough wrote:
> >>>>> Jonathon,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Probably the best approach would be to write an xslt script which
> >>>>> would
> >>>>> parse the OfBiz XML descriptors and generate skeleton code which
> >>>
> >>> could
> >>>
> >>>>> then be subclassed to put in specific processing (it may be
> >>>>> possible to
> >>>>> generate the whole thing, I have not looked closely enough).  I
> >>>
> >>> am
> >>>
> >>>>> thinking
> >>>>> of something like the juic system used by QtJambi - the new Java
> >>>>> binding
> >>>>> for Qt that Trolltech have currently in beta (juic was actually
> >>>>> originally
> >>>>> part of kdebindings but that is another story).
> >>>>>
> >>>>> It may sound odd, but actually it is best not to think about HTML
> >>>
> >>> and
> >>>
> >>>>> Javascript when coding GWT, it just complicates things.  You can
> >>>>> include
> >>>>> explicit HTML or Javascript if necessary, but it is better to
> >>>
> >>> start
> >>>
> >>>>> from
> >>>>> the position of doing it natively in GWT.  It may be necessary
> >>>
> >>> (or
> >>>
> >>>>> desirable)
> >>>>> to write some GWT code to emulate specific OfBiz widgets, I have
> >>>>> not looked
> >>>>> closely enough to find out.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> David
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Tuesday 24 April 2007 13:22, Jonathon -- Improov wrote:
> >>>>>> David,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Seems to me the GWT will generate both the HTML (events) and the
> >>>>>> Javascript
> >>>>>> (event handlers). Is that correct? If so, I'd have to somehow
> >>>>>> translate the
> >>>>>> HTML output to OFBiz widgets. Still, GWT's support for coding in
> >>>>>> Java is
> >>>>>> cool.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Yes, OFBiz supports JSON (via json-lib). I've been using it
> >>>
> >>> often
> >>>
> >>>>>> in Ajax
> >>>>>> work with OFBiz.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Jonathon
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> David Goodenough wrote:
> >>>>>>> You ask about whether there are Javascript experts around.  Of
> >>>>>>> course
> >>>>>>> if you were to use GWT (Google Widget Toolkit), you do the
> >>>>>>> programming
> >>>>>>> in Java and it is translated into Javascript.  That way you get
> >>>>>>> all the
> >>>>>>> strict typing of Java but the implementation on the browser
> >>>
> >>> without
> >>>
> >>>>>>> addons.  GWT is of course now entirely open source and
> >>>
> >>> integrated
> >>>
> >>>>>>> into
> >>>>>>> Eclipse quite easily.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> As I read it much of what is needed for using GWT is already
> >>>>>>> present in
> >>>>>>> Ofbiz, GWT can use JSON as its comms protocol and I think I am
> >>>>>>> right in
> >>>>>>> saying that JSON is supported by Ofbiz.  You could use SOAP but
> >>>>>>> JSON is
> >>>>>>> lighter weight and as the execution environment is javascript
> >>>
> >>> is
> >>>
> >>>>>>> the more
> >>>>>>> native protocol.  GWT does have its own RPC protocol as well,
> >>>
> >>> in
> >>>
> >>>>>>> which
> >>>>>>> case you would have to write the server end in its environment,
> >>>>>>> but there
> >>>>>>> is no requirement to use it, JSON (or even native HTTP) will do
> >>>>>>> perfectly
> >>>>>>> well.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> David
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Tuesday 24 April 2007 04:33, Jonathon -- Improov wrote:
> >>>>>>>> I was actually looking to pump in my enhancements to the
> >>>
> >>> Widget
> >>>
> >>>>>>>> module.
> >>>>>>>> I've incorporated some Ajax-facilitating or Ajax-related
> >>>
> >>> features
> >>>
> >>>>>>>> directly into the Widget module, so I won't have to do HUGE
> >>>
> >>> .ftl
> >>>
> >>>>>>>> (s).
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Imagine being able to use and reuse a widget-screen for 2 (or
> >>>
> >>> more)
> >>>
> >>>>>>>> purposes: non-ajax operation and ajax operation (pulling down
> >>>>>>>> various
> >>>>>>>> sub-sub-parts of the screen).
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> In general, I was able to make all listings screens (with the
> >>>>>>>> Prev/Next
> >>>>>>>> hrefs) load via Ajax.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> But be warned that this Ajax approach, if carried further,
> >>>
> >>> could
> >>>
> >>>>>>>> hark
> >>>>>>>> back to those times when you programmed Java AWTs for rich UIs
> >>>>>>>> (events
> >>>>>>>> and concurrency). Except there's lots of javascript involved
> >>>
> >>> in
> >>>
> >>>>>>>> this
> >>>>>>>> case, not Java, and bad news is there's no concurrency
> >>>
> >>> controls in
> >>>
> >>>>>>>> javascript. Which means, prepare to get wickedly good at
> >>>>>>>> acrobatics in
> >>>>>>>> javascript (obscure acquired taste, really), or deal with the
> >>>>>>>> potential
> >>>>>>>> mess and meltdown. Please let me know if there's any experts
> >>>
> >>> in
> >>>
> >>>>>>>> javascript OO and programming here.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I'm willing to help with Ajax-ing OFBiz. Just let me know if
> >>>
> >>> the
> >>>
> >>>>>>>> "nice
> >>>>>>>> addition" Andrew's talking about will go into Opentaps or
> >>>
> >>> OFBiz,
> >>>
> >>>>>>>> and
> >>>>>>>> I'll follow. I only need to know if there's any anti-trust
> >>>
> >>> case
> >>>
> >>>>>>>> against
> >>>>>>>> the body I'm contributing to.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Jonathon
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Andrew Zeneski wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> This sounds like it will be a nice addition to OFBiz, I can't
> >>>>>>>>> wait to
> >>>>>>>>> see the progress!
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Andrew
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On Apr 23, 2007, at 4:59 PM, Si Chen wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> If there are any developers interested in working on a CRM
> >>>>>>>>>> system,
> >>>>>>>>>> we're looking for more help here at Open Source Strategies.
> >>>>>>>>>> We have
> >>>>>>>>>> both full-time openings and part-time paid opportunities,
> >>>
> >>> and
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>>> you can
> >>>>>>>>>> work from home and set your own hours.  You'll have a chance
> >>>>>>>>>> to work
> >>>>>>>>>> with us on a combination of client projects, our open source
> >>
> >> === message truncated ===

[cjhowe]

An interesting blog entry as to the beginnings of the HPL and what the
main distinction is between it and the GPL.

http://www.funambol.com/blog/capo/2006/08/honest-public-license.html



--- Si Chen <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Since this turned into a discussion about opentaps, I'd like to
> explain
> the opentaps licensing and business model a little better, for the
> benefit of everybody in the OFBIZ community.
>
> The opentaps licensing model is a way we thought of to increase the
> total body of openly available software, hopefully to the benefit of
> everybody.  Our goal is not to exclude anybody, whether you are a
> user,
> a service provider, or a vertical market ISV, from using our
> software.  
> Rather, it is to create a fair  mechanism for encouraging
> contributions
> back to the open source community and supporting open source
> development.  (It is actually a more sophisticated form of some early
>
> cost-sharing models we tried two years ago but simply didn't work.)
>
> If you are thinking of creating a commercial product which falls out
> of
> the scope of our open source license, we have a couple of options:
>
> (a) We offer a commercial license which is a small fraction of the
> cost
> for you to create these applications yourself or hiring a consultant
> to
> do it for you.  With this license, you do not have any obligations to
>
> publish your proprietary code.  All our commercial licensing
> revenues,
> in turn, help support ongoing development and support for open source
>
> software, to the benefit of everybody.
>
> (b) Alternatively, you could contribute features back to us in
> exchange
> for commercial licenses, and we offer very generous terms of exchange
>
> which will give you a good return on your investment in those
> features
> and save you from "reinventing the wheel" first.  In effect, you'll
> be
> joining us in the development of opentaps.
>
> Of course, please do not mistake any of this for trying to dissuade
> anybody from contributing back to OFBIZ.  I've spent three plus years
>
> trying to get more contributions to OFBIZ, and, obviously, the better
>
> OFBIZ is, the better off we are.  However, if you want to use
> opentaps
> but don't want to create an open source product based on it yourself,
> I
> do not want you to feel that we are trying to exclude you either.  
>
> Si Chen
>
> Scott A wrote:
> > Here is a question. If I decide to modify my business model and go
> for a
> > franchise type business where I sell the entire package which
> includes
> > website, admin (ofbiz) and product to a company from what I
> understand I can
> > do so freely with the Apache's License but I could not do it with a
> HPL. Is
> > this a correct assumption?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Christian Geisert wrote:
> >  
> >> Florin Jurcovici schrieb:
> >>    
> >>> Hello.
> >>>
> >>> To see if I really got it wrong, I did a bit of research on the
> various
> >>> licenses. I think it is useful to restate briefly what I
> understand from
> >>> each license. (I surely would like to see a lawyer comment on
> these
> >>> licensing issues.)
> >>>      
> >> [..]
> >>
> >>    
> >>> Apache license: as far as I can understand it, it allows you to
> >>> commercially license only stuff which is only coupled on
> interfaces
> >>> exposed by an app, such as plugins, but not stuff which replaces
> parts
> >>> of an app and/or implements various things differently, and which
> uses
> >>> code in the app to build and run - like for instance licensing
> ofbiz
> >>> with a module which not only provides additional financial
> services but
> >>> also changes whatever there already is in ofbiz.
> >>>      
> >> I don't know where you got this information from but it is clearly
> >> wrong, see
> >> http://www.apache.org/foundation/licence-FAQ.html#WhatDoesItMEAN
> >> for details.
> >> Short: You are allowed to distribute/sell your software which is
> based
> >> on code licensed under the Apache License and you are not required
> to
> >> publish your modified code. All you need to do is to include the
> license
> >> and give an attribution notice.
> >> Big difference to the GPL (whatever version)
> >>
> >> --
> >> Christian
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>    
> >
> >  
>

[jonwimp]

Chris,

A renderer for javascript? Currently, the "renderer" I'm using is merely Freemarker.

Jonathon

Chris Howe wrote:

> In that case, what would be the likelihood of being able to create a
> renderer for it?
>
> --- David Goodenough <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Tim,
>>
>> I am not at all sure what you mean by "tight coupling with the HTML".
>> As you never (or should never) write any HTML as part of the GWT code
>> this makes no sense.  Yes the GWT controls are mapped to HTML, but
>> you
>> can make your own controls quite easily, and integrate them into the
>> GWT framework so you are not limited to what simple HTML widgets can
>> do.
>>
>> But I am merely a bystander when it comes to OfBiz, so it is for
>> others
>> to decide.  What I was reacting to was the thought that getting
>> Javascript
>> expertise into OfBiz might be difficult, and so doing things in Java
>> makes
>> a lot of sense.  Personally I find Javascript to be a problematic
>> language,
>> it is very powerful, almost too powerful - you can almost redefine
>> the
>> language as you go along - but being interpreted and not type safe in
>> the
>> way that Java is makes it a much more difficult language to use well.
>>
>> David
>>
>> On Tuesday 24 April 2007 14:39, Tim Ruppert wrote:
>>> David, we did a number of pilots with GWT (and other frameworks) in
>>> OFBiz and were much happier with the dojo toolkit.  The GWT, while
>>> having the bonus of being able to do everything in java, also
>>> required a bit more of a tight coupling with the HTML - which in my
>>> mind - made it less desirable.
>>>
>>> JSON is there in case you can show us all a better way of handling
>>> it!  Hope that helps.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Tim
>>> --
>>> Tim Ruppert
>>> HotWax Media
>>> http://www.hotwaxmedia.com
>>>
>>> o:801.649.6594
>>> f:801.649.6595
>>>
>>> On Apr 24, 2007, at 7:06 AM, David Goodenough wrote:
>>>> Jonathon,
>>>>
>>>> Probably the best approach would be to write an xslt script which
>>>> would
>>>> parse the OfBiz XML descriptors and generate skeleton code which
>> could
>>>> then be subclassed to put in specific processing (it may be
>>>> possible to
>>>> generate the whole thing, I have not looked closely enough).  I
>> am
>>>> thinking
>>>> of something like the juic system used by QtJambi - the new Java
>>>> binding
>>>> for Qt that Trolltech have currently in beta (juic was actually
>>>> originally
>>>> part of kdebindings but that is another story).
>>>>
>>>> It may sound odd, but actually it is best not to think about HTML
>> and
>>>> Javascript when coding GWT, it just complicates things.  You can
>>>> include
>>>> explicit HTML or Javascript if necessary, but it is better to
>> start
>>>> from
>>>> the position of doing it natively in GWT.  It may be necessary
>> (or
>>>> desirable)
>>>> to write some GWT code to emulate specific OfBiz widgets, I have
>>>> not looked
>>>> closely enough to find out.
>>>>
>>>> David
>>>>
>>>> On Tuesday 24 April 2007 13:22, Jonathon -- Improov wrote:
>>>>> David,
>>>>>
>>>>> Seems to me the GWT will generate both the HTML (events) and the
>>>>> Javascript
>>>>> (event handlers). Is that correct? If so, I'd have to somehow
>>>>> translate the
>>>>> HTML output to OFBiz widgets. Still, GWT's support for coding in
>>>>> Java is
>>>>> cool.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, OFBiz supports JSON (via json-lib). I've been using it
>> often
>>>>> in Ajax
>>>>> work with OFBiz.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jonathon
>>>>>
>>>>> David Goodenough wrote:
>>>>>> You ask about whether there are Javascript experts around.  Of
>>>>>> course
>>>>>> if you were to use GWT (Google Widget Toolkit), you do the
>>>>>> programming
>>>>>> in Java and it is translated into Javascript.  That way you get
>>>>>> all the
>>>>>> strict typing of Java but the implementation on the browser
>> without
>>>>>> addons.  GWT is of course now entirely open source and
>> integrated
>>>>>> into
>>>>>> Eclipse quite easily.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As I read it much of what is needed for using GWT is already
>>>>>> present in
>>>>>> Ofbiz, GWT can use JSON as its comms protocol and I think I am
>>>>>> right in
>>>>>> saying that JSON is supported by Ofbiz.  You could use SOAP but
>>>>>> JSON is
>>>>>> lighter weight and as the execution environment is javascript
>> is
>>>>>> the more
>>>>>> native protocol.  GWT does have its own RPC protocol as well,
>> in
>>>>>> which
>>>>>> case you would have to write the server end in its environment,
>>>>>> but there
>>>>>> is no requirement to use it, JSON (or even native HTTP) will do
>>>>>> perfectly
>>>>>> well.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> David
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tuesday 24 April 2007 04:33, Jonathon -- Improov wrote:
>>>>>>> I was actually looking to pump in my enhancements to the
>> Widget
>>>>>>> module.
>>>>>>> I've incorporated some Ajax-facilitating or Ajax-related
>> features
>>>>>>> directly into the Widget module, so I won't have to do HUGE
>> .ftl
>>>>>>> (s).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Imagine being able to use and reuse a widget-screen for 2 (or
>> more)
>>>>>>> purposes: non-ajax operation and ajax operation (pulling down
>>>>>>> various
>>>>>>> sub-sub-parts of the screen).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In general, I was able to make all listings screens (with the
>>>>>>> Prev/Next
>>>>>>> hrefs) load via Ajax.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But be warned that this Ajax approach, if carried further,
>> could
>>>>>>> hark
>>>>>>> back to those times when you programmed Java AWTs for rich UIs
>>>>>>> (events
>>>>>>> and concurrency). Except there's lots of javascript involved
>> in
>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>> case, not Java, and bad news is there's no concurrency
>> controls in
>>>>>>> javascript. Which means, prepare to get wickedly good at
>>>>>>> acrobatics in
>>>>>>> javascript (obscure acquired taste, really), or deal with the
>>>>>>> potential
>>>>>>> mess and meltdown. Please let me know if there's any experts
>> in
>>>>>>> javascript OO and programming here.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm willing to help with Ajax-ing OFBiz. Just let me know if
>> the
>>>>>>> "nice
>>>>>>> addition" Andrew's talking about will go into Opentaps or
>> OFBiz,
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> I'll follow. I only need to know if there's any anti-trust
>> case
>>>>>>> against
>>>>>>> the body I'm contributing to.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jonathon
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Andrew Zeneski wrote:
>>>>>>>> This sounds like it will be a nice addition to OFBiz, I can't
>>>>>>>> wait to
>>>>>>>> see the progress!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Andrew
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Apr 23, 2007, at 4:59 PM, Si Chen wrote:
>>>>>>>>> If there are any developers interested in working on a CRM
>>>>>>>>> system,
>>>>>>>>> we're looking for more help here at Open Source Strategies.
>>>>>>>>> We have
>>>>>>>>> both full-time openings and part-time paid opportunities,
>> and
>>>>>>>>> you can
>>>>>>>>> work from home and set your own hours.  You'll have a chance
>>>>>>>>> to work
>>>>>>>>> with us on a combination of client projects, our open source
> === message truncated ===
>
>

[jonwimp]

David,

UI code on the client in the form of dynamically downloaded javascripts, yes, that's good. But not
UI definitions residing on the client.

That's why I can't quite use SWT (Swing, UI with Java). Hefty deployment costs.

Jonathon

David Goodenough wrote:

> Surely that is what JSON is for.  It is just a javascript based RPC
> mechanism.  Having the UI code on the client rather than the server
> is a good thing, its a perfectly good of the MVC models, and it means
> that it can be very responsive to the user and feels like a normal
> PC application.
>
> David
>
> On Tuesday 24 April 2007 18:52, BJ Freeman wrote:
>> I have a tool that creates SWT code.
>> the problem with JAVA based UI is that the application runs on the
>> client not the web server. So a interface has to be written to
>> communication with the ofbiz.
>>
>> Where I am going with this, is the Widgets xml is converted already in
>> ofbiz. So I would liked to see more functionality built into the
>> widgets, where possible, instead of having redundant functionality, in
>> some other form.
>>
>> For Java UI applications, I would like to see a standard interface
>> fleshed out for communication to Ofbiz. Then each developer can use
>> his/her favorite UI code to build on.
>>
>> David Goodenough sent the following on 4/24/2007 8:24 AM:
>>> I have not looked in detail, but given that OfBiz has an abstract
>>> definition of the UI and the processing it should be possible to
>>> have an xslt transform that generates a set of GWT java source that
>>> can be compiled and then used by the browser.  Doing it dynamically
>>> would not seem sensible, but the code only needs to be regenerated
>>> when the UI definition changes.
>>>
>>> David
>>>
>>> On Tuesday 24 April 2007 16:11, Chris Howe wrote:
>>>> In that case, what would be the likelihood of being able to create a
>>>> renderer for it?
>>>>
>>>> --- David Goodenough <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>> Tim,
>>>>>
>>>>> I am not at all sure what you mean by "tight coupling with the HTML".
>>>>> As you never (or should never) write any HTML as part of the GWT code
>>>>> this makes no sense.  Yes the GWT controls are mapped to HTML, but
>>>>> you
>>>>> can make your own controls quite easily, and integrate them into the
>>>>> GWT framework so you are not limited to what simple HTML widgets can
>>>>> do.
>>>>>
>>>>> But I am merely a bystander when it comes to OfBiz, so it is for
>>>>> others
>>>>> to decide.  What I was reacting to was the thought that getting
>>>>> Javascript
>>>>> expertise into OfBiz might be difficult, and so doing things in Java
>>>>> makes
>>>>> a lot of sense.  Personally I find Javascript to be a problematic
>>>>> language,
>>>>> it is very powerful, almost too powerful - you can almost redefine
>>>>> the
>>>>> language as you go along - but being interpreted and not type safe in
>>>>> the
>>>>> way that Java is makes it a much more difficult language to use well.
>>>>>
>>>>> David
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tuesday 24 April 2007 14:39, Tim Ruppert wrote:
>>>>>> David, we did a number of pilots with GWT (and other frameworks) in
>>>>>> OFBiz and were much happier with the dojo toolkit.  The GWT, while
>>>>>> having the bonus of being able to do everything in java, also
>>>>>> required a bit more of a tight coupling with the HTML - which in my
>>>>>> mind - made it less desirable.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> JSON is there in case you can show us all a better way of handling
>>>>>> it!  Hope that helps.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> Tim
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Tim Ruppert
>>>>>> HotWax Media
>>>>>> http://www.hotwaxmedia.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> o:801.649.6594
>>>>>> f:801.649.6595
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Apr 24, 2007, at 7:06 AM, David Goodenough wrote:
>>>>>>> Jonathon,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Probably the best approach would be to write an xslt script which
>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>> parse the OfBiz XML descriptors and generate skeleton code which
>>>>> could
>>>>>
>>>>>>> then be subclassed to put in specific processing (it may be
>>>>>>> possible to
>>>>>>> generate the whole thing, I have not looked closely enough).  I
>>>>> am
>>>>>
>>>>>>> thinking
>>>>>>> of something like the juic system used by QtJambi - the new Java
>>>>>>> binding
>>>>>>> for Qt that Trolltech have currently in beta (juic was actually
>>>>>>> originally
>>>>>>> part of kdebindings but that is another story).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It may sound odd, but actually it is best not to think about HTML
>>>>> and
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Javascript when coding GWT, it just complicates things.  You can
>>>>>>> include
>>>>>>> explicit HTML or Javascript if necessary, but it is better to
>>>>> start
>>>>>
>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>> the position of doing it natively in GWT.  It may be necessary
>>>>> (or
>>>>>
>>>>>>> desirable)
>>>>>>> to write some GWT code to emulate specific OfBiz widgets, I have
>>>>>>> not looked
>>>>>>> closely enough to find out.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> David
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tuesday 24 April 2007 13:22, Jonathon -- Improov wrote:
>>>>>>>> David,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Seems to me the GWT will generate both the HTML (events) and the
>>>>>>>> Javascript
>>>>>>>> (event handlers). Is that correct? If so, I'd have to somehow
>>>>>>>> translate the
>>>>>>>> HTML output to OFBiz widgets. Still, GWT's support for coding in
>>>>>>>> Java is
>>>>>>>> cool.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yes, OFBiz supports JSON (via json-lib). I've been using it
>>>>> often
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> in Ajax
>>>>>>>> work with OFBiz.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jonathon
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> David Goodenough wrote:
>>>>>>>>> You ask about whether there are Javascript experts around.  Of
>>>>>>>>> course
>>>>>>>>> if you were to use GWT (Google Widget Toolkit), you do the
>>>>>>>>> programming
>>>>>>>>> in Java and it is translated into Javascript.  That way you get
>>>>>>>>> all the
>>>>>>>>> strict typing of Java but the implementation on the browser
>>>>> without
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> addons.  GWT is of course now entirely open source and
>>>>> integrated
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> into
>>>>>>>>> Eclipse quite easily.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> As I read it much of what is needed for using GWT is already
>>>>>>>>> present in
>>>>>>>>> Ofbiz, GWT can use JSON as its comms protocol and I think I am
>>>>>>>>> right in
>>>>>>>>> saying that JSON is supported by Ofbiz.  You could use SOAP but
>>>>>>>>> JSON is
>>>>>>>>> lighter weight and as the execution environment is javascript
>>>>> is
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> the more
>>>>>>>>> native protocol.  GWT does have its own RPC protocol as well,
>>>>> in
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> which
>>>>>>>>> case you would have to write the server end in its environment,
>>>>>>>>> but there
>>>>>>>>> is no requirement to use it, JSON (or even native HTTP) will do
>>>>>>>>> perfectly
>>>>>>>>> well.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> David
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday 24 April 2007 04:33, Jonathon -- Improov wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> I was actually looking to pump in my enhancements to the
>>>>> Widget
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> module.
>>>>>>>>>> I've incorporated some Ajax-facilitating or Ajax-related
>>>>> features
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> directly into the Widget module, so I won't have to do HUGE
>>>>> .ftl
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> (s).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Imagine being able to use and reuse a widget-screen for 2 (or
>>>>> more)
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> purposes: non-ajax operation and ajax operation (pulling down
>>>>>>>>>> various
>>>>>>>>>> sub-sub-parts of the screen).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In general, I was able to make all listings screens (with the
>>>>>>>>>> Prev/Next
>>>>>>>>>> hrefs) load via Ajax.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> But be warned that this Ajax approach, if carried further,
>>>>> could
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> hark
>>>>>>>>>> back to those times when you programmed Java AWTs for rich UIs
>>>>>>>>>> (events
>>>>>>>>>> and concurrency). Except there's lots of javascript involved
>>>>> in
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>> case, not Java, and bad news is there's no concurrency
>>>>> controls in
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> javascript. Which means, prepare to get wickedly good at
>>>>>>>>>> acrobatics in
>>>>>>>>>> javascript (obscure acquired taste, really), or deal with the
>>>>>>>>>> potential
>>>>>>>>>> mess and meltdown. Please let me know if there's any experts
>>>>> in
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> javascript OO and programming here.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'm willing to help with Ajax-ing OFBiz. Just let me know if
>>>>> the
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "nice
>>>>>>>>>> addition" Andrew's talking about will go into Opentaps or
>>>>> OFBiz,
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> I'll follow. I only need to know if there's any anti-trust
>>>>> case
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> against
>>>>>>>>>> the body I'm contributing to.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Jonathon
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Andrew Zeneski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> This sounds like it will be a nice addition to OFBiz, I can't
>>>>>>>>>>> wait to
>>>>>>>>>>> see the progress!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Andrew
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 23, 2007, at 4:59 PM, Si Chen wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> If there are any developers interested in working on a CRM
>>>>>>>>>>>> system,
>>>>>>>>>>>> we're looking for more help here at Open Source Strategies.
>>>>>>>>>>>> We have
>>>>>>>>>>>> both full-time openings and part-time paid opportunities,
>>>>> and
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> you can
>>>>>>>>>>>> work from home and set your own hours.  You'll have a chance
>>>>>>>>>>>> to work
>>>>>>>>>>>> with us on a combination of client projects, our open source
>>>> === message truncated ===
>
>

[jonwimp]

BJ,

You mean get OFBiz Widget module to generate Java UIs (SWT)? Won't be easy.

What we can do is craft a few Java-based "connector" classes to talk between Java UI and server.
The current "form-to-server interface" is http and ajax, we should reuse that. Just a matter of
compiling the parameters and contexts, and firing it through RequestHandler.

We could even consider that an interim measure for now, and create a JavaFormHandler that is a
counterpart to the RequestHandler. "Counterpart" meaning it is not on same level as say
JavaEventHandler, but 1 level higher.

The only question now: Do we urgently need to get OFBiz Widget to support Java UIs? Is that a
popular need?

Jonathon

BJ Freeman wrote:

> I have a tool that creates SWT code.
> the problem with JAVA based UI is that the application runs on the
> client not the web server. So a interface has to be written to
> communication with the ofbiz.
>
> Where I am going with this, is the Widgets xml is converted already in
> ofbiz. So I would liked to see more functionality built into the
> widgets, where possible, instead of having redundant functionality, in
> some other form.
>
> For Java UI applications, I would like to see a standard interface
> fleshed out for communication to Ofbiz. Then each developer can use
> his/her favorite UI code to build on.
>
>
>
> David Goodenough sent the following on 4/24/2007 8:24 AM:
>> I have not looked in detail, but given that OfBiz has an abstract
>> definition of the UI and the processing it should be possible to
>> have an xslt transform that generates a set of GWT java source that
>> can be compiled and then used by the browser.  Doing it dynamically
>> would not seem sensible, but the code only needs to be regenerated
>> when the UI definition changes.
>>
>> David
>>
>> On Tuesday 24 April 2007 16:11, Chris Howe wrote:
>>> In that case, what would be the likelihood of being able to create a
>>> renderer for it?
>>>
>>> --- David Goodenough <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> Tim,
>>>>
>>>> I am not at all sure what you mean by "tight coupling with the HTML".
>>>> As you never (or should never) write any HTML as part of the GWT code
>>>> this makes no sense.  Yes the GWT controls are mapped to HTML, but
>>>> you
>>>> can make your own controls quite easily, and integrate them into the
>>>> GWT framework so you are not limited to what simple HTML widgets can
>>>> do.
>>>>
>>>> But I am merely a bystander when it comes to OfBiz, so it is for
>>>> others
>>>> to decide.  What I was reacting to was the thought that getting
>>>> Javascript
>>>> expertise into OfBiz might be difficult, and so doing things in Java
>>>> makes
>>>> a lot of sense.  Personally I find Javascript to be a problematic
>>>> language,
>>>> it is very powerful, almost too powerful - you can almost redefine
>>>> the
>>>> language as you go along - but being interpreted and not type safe in
>>>> the
>>>> way that Java is makes it a much more difficult language to use well.
>>>>
>>>> David
>>>>
>>>> On Tuesday 24 April 2007 14:39, Tim Ruppert wrote:
>>>>> David, we did a number of pilots with GWT (and other frameworks) in
>>>>> OFBiz and were much happier with the dojo toolkit.  The GWT, while
>>>>> having the bonus of being able to do everything in java, also
>>>>> required a bit more of a tight coupling with the HTML - which in my
>>>>> mind - made it less desirable.
>>>>>
>>>>> JSON is there in case you can show us all a better way of handling
>>>>> it!  Hope that helps.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Tim
>>>>> --
>>>>> Tim Ruppert
>>>>> HotWax Media
>>>>> http://www.hotwaxmedia.com
>>>>>
>>>>> o:801.649.6594
>>>>> f:801.649.6595
>>>>>
>>>>> On Apr 24, 2007, at 7:06 AM, David Goodenough wrote:
>>>>>> Jonathon,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Probably the best approach would be to write an xslt script which
>>>>>> would
>>>>>> parse the OfBiz XML descriptors and generate skeleton code which
>>>> could
>>>>
>>>>>> then be subclassed to put in specific processing (it may be
>>>>>> possible to
>>>>>> generate the whole thing, I have not looked closely enough).  I
>>>> am
>>>>
>>>>>> thinking
>>>>>> of something like the juic system used by QtJambi - the new Java
>>>>>> binding
>>>>>> for Qt that Trolltech have currently in beta (juic was actually
>>>>>> originally
>>>>>> part of kdebindings but that is another story).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It may sound odd, but actually it is best not to think about HTML
>>>> and
>>>>
>>>>>> Javascript when coding GWT, it just complicates things.  You can
>>>>>> include
>>>>>> explicit HTML or Javascript if necessary, but it is better to
>>>> start
>>>>
>>>>>> from
>>>>>> the position of doing it natively in GWT.  It may be necessary
>>>> (or
>>>>
>>>>>> desirable)
>>>>>> to write some GWT code to emulate specific OfBiz widgets, I have
>>>>>> not looked
>>>>>> closely enough to find out.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> David
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tuesday 24 April 2007 13:22, Jonathon -- Improov wrote:
>>>>>>> David,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Seems to me the GWT will generate both the HTML (events) and the
>>>>>>> Javascript
>>>>>>> (event handlers). Is that correct? If so, I'd have to somehow
>>>>>>> translate the
>>>>>>> HTML output to OFBiz widgets. Still, GWT's support for coding in
>>>>>>> Java is
>>>>>>> cool.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes, OFBiz supports JSON (via json-lib). I've been using it
>>>> often
>>>>
>>>>>>> in Ajax
>>>>>>> work with OFBiz.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jonathon
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> David Goodenough wrote:
>>>>>>>> You ask about whether there are Javascript experts around.  Of
>>>>>>>> course
>>>>>>>> if you were to use GWT (Google Widget Toolkit), you do the
>>>>>>>> programming
>>>>>>>> in Java and it is translated into Javascript.  That way you get
>>>>>>>> all the
>>>>>>>> strict typing of Java but the implementation on the browser
>>>> without
>>>>
>>>>>>>> addons.  GWT is of course now entirely open source and
>>>> integrated
>>>>
>>>>>>>> into
>>>>>>>> Eclipse quite easily.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As I read it much of what is needed for using GWT is already
>>>>>>>> present in
>>>>>>>> Ofbiz, GWT can use JSON as its comms protocol and I think I am
>>>>>>>> right in
>>>>>>>> saying that JSON is supported by Ofbiz.  You could use SOAP but
>>>>>>>> JSON is
>>>>>>>> lighter weight and as the execution environment is javascript
>>>> is
>>>>
>>>>>>>> the more
>>>>>>>> native protocol.  GWT does have its own RPC protocol as well,
>>>> in
>>>>
>>>>>>>> which
>>>>>>>> case you would have to write the server end in its environment,
>>>>>>>> but there
>>>>>>>> is no requirement to use it, JSON (or even native HTTP) will do
>>>>>>>> perfectly
>>>>>>>> well.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> David
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tuesday 24 April 2007 04:33, Jonathon -- Improov wrote:
>>>>>>>>> I was actually looking to pump in my enhancements to the
>>>> Widget
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> module.
>>>>>>>>> I've incorporated some Ajax-facilitating or Ajax-related
>>>> features
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> directly into the Widget module, so I won't have to do HUGE
>>>> .ftl
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> (s).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Imagine being able to use and reuse a widget-screen for 2 (or
>>>> more)
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> purposes: non-ajax operation and ajax operation (pulling down
>>>>>>>>> various
>>>>>>>>> sub-sub-parts of the screen).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In general, I was able to make all listings screens (with the
>>>>>>>>> Prev/Next
>>>>>>>>> hrefs) load via Ajax.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But be warned that this Ajax approach, if carried further,
>>>> could
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> hark
>>>>>>>>> back to those times when you programmed Java AWTs for rich UIs
>>>>>>>>> (events
>>>>>>>>> and concurrency). Except there's lots of javascript involved
>>>> in
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>> case, not Java, and bad news is there's no concurrency
>>>> controls in
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> javascript. Which means, prepare to get wickedly good at
>>>>>>>>> acrobatics in
>>>>>>>>> javascript (obscure acquired taste, really), or deal with the
>>>>>>>>> potential
>>>>>>>>> mess and meltdown. Please let me know if there's any experts
>>>> in
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> javascript OO and programming here.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm willing to help with Ajax-ing OFBiz. Just let me know if
>>>> the
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "nice
>>>>>>>>> addition" Andrew's talking about will go into Opentaps or
>>>> OFBiz,
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> I'll follow. I only need to know if there's any anti-trust
>>>> case
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> against
>>>>>>>>> the body I'm contributing to.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Jonathon
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Andrew Zeneski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> This sounds like it will be a nice addition to OFBiz, I can't
>>>>>>>>>> wait to
>>>>>>>>>> see the progress!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Andrew
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 23, 2007, at 4:59 PM, Si Chen wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> If there are any developers interested in working on a CRM
>>>>>>>>>>> system,
>>>>>>>>>>> we're looking for more help here at Open Source Strategies.
>>>>>>>>>>> We have
>>>>>>>>>>> both full-time openings and part-time paid opportunities,
>>>> and
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> you can
>>>>>>>>>>> work from home and set your own hours.  You'll have a chance
>>>>>>>>>>> to work
>>>>>>>>>>> with us on a combination of client projects, our open source
>>> === message truncated ===
>>
>>
>
>

[jonwimp]

Chris,

Nice read, those articles from Fabrizio Capobianco.

I'm more concerned about the diff between ASL and HPL, than GPL and HPL.

Frankly, I'm totally confused, and I often don't know what to do about balancing community benefit
and commercial bottom lines. I do find myself simply working for the highest bidder. More often
than not, I've benefited commercial players more than community players, which is sad.

Ultimately, I just wanna have some fun doing what I'm good at, and that's not law (or monopoly
either).

OT here, please don't respond on ML, just musings. I wonder if GPL will ever make HPL unnecessary.
And I wonder if the world is crumbling (what with new disruptive weather/climate) because I'm not
helping to do something about it.

Jonathon

Chris Howe wrote:

> An interesting blog entry as to the beginnings of the HPL and what the
> main distinction is between it and the GPL.
>
> http://www.funambol.com/blog/capo/2006/08/honest-public-license.html
>
>
>
> --- Si Chen <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Since this turned into a discussion about opentaps, I'd like to
>> explain
>> the opentaps licensing and business model a little better, for the
>> benefit of everybody in the OFBIZ community.
>>
>> The opentaps licensing model is a way we thought of to increase the
>> total body of openly available software, hopefully to the benefit of
>> everybody.  Our goal is not to exclude anybody, whether you are a
>> user,
>> a service provider, or a vertical market ISV, from using our
>> software.  
>> Rather, it is to create a fair  mechanism for encouraging
>> contributions
>> back to the open source community and supporting open source
>> development.  (It is actually a more sophisticated form of some early
>>
>> cost-sharing models we tried two years ago but simply didn't work.)
>>
>> If you are thinking of creating a commercial product which falls out
>> of
>> the scope of our open source license, we have a couple of options:
>>
>> (a) We offer a commercial license which is a small fraction of the
>> cost
>> for you to create these applications yourself or hiring a consultant
>> to
>> do it for you.  With this license, you do not have any obligations to
>>
>> publish your proprietary code.  All our commercial licensing
>> revenues,
>> in turn, help support ongoing development and support for open source
>>
>> software, to the benefit of everybody.
>>
>> (b) Alternatively, you could contribute features back to us in
>> exchange
>> for commercial licenses, and we offer very generous terms of exchange
>>
>> which will give you a good return on your investment in those
>> features
>> and save you from "reinventing the wheel" first.  In effect, you'll
>> be
>> joining us in the development of opentaps.
>>
>> Of course, please do not mistake any of this for trying to dissuade
>> anybody from contributing back to OFBIZ.  I've spent three plus years
>>
>> trying to get more contributions to OFBIZ, and, obviously, the better
>>
>> OFBIZ is, the better off we are.  However, if you want to use
>> opentaps
>> but don't want to create an open source product based on it yourself,
>> I
>> do not want you to feel that we are trying to exclude you either.  
>>
>> Si Chen
>>
>> Scott A wrote:
>>> Here is a question. If I decide to modify my business model and go
>> for a
>>> franchise type business where I sell the entire package which
>> includes
>>> website, admin (ofbiz) and product to a company from what I
>> understand I can
>>> do so freely with the Apache's License but I could not do it with a
>> HPL. Is
>>> this a correct assumption?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Christian Geisert wrote:
>>>  
>>>> Florin Jurcovici schrieb:
>>>>    
>>>>> Hello.
>>>>>
>>>>> To see if I really got it wrong, I did a bit of research on the
>> various
>>>>> licenses. I think it is useful to restate briefly what I
>> understand from
>>>>> each license. (I surely would like to see a lawyer comment on
>> these
>>>>> licensing issues.)
>>>>>      
>>>> [..]
>>>>
>>>>    
>>>>> Apache license: as far as I can understand it, it allows you to
>>>>> commercially license only stuff which is only coupled on
>> interfaces
>>>>> exposed by an app, such as plugins, but not stuff which replaces
>> parts
>>>>> of an app and/or implements various things differently, and which
>> uses
>>>>> code in the app to build and run - like for instance licensing
>> ofbiz
>>>>> with a module which not only provides additional financial
>> services but
>>>>> also changes whatever there already is in ofbiz.
>>>>>      
>>>> I don't know where you got this information from but it is clearly
>>>> wrong, see
>>>> http://www.apache.org/foundation/licence-FAQ.html#WhatDoesItMEAN
>>>> for details.
>>>> Short: You are allowed to distribute/sell your software which is
>> based
>>>> on code licensed under the Apache License and you are not required
>> to
>>>> publish your modified code. All you need to do is to include the
>> license
>>>> and give an attribution notice.
>>>> Big difference to the GPL (whatever version)
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Christian
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    
>>>  
>
>

[cjhowe]

Not a renderer for javascript, a renderer for GWT or a renderer for
Echo2 or for one of the xml based engines.  It would transform the
screen definition into what is expected of the engine.  The one you're
most used to is the one that transforms the screen definition into
html.  It's very similar to what David G. is talking about with an xsl
transformation but using the methodology that Ofbiz uses by abstracting
it out to the renderer.

http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/ofbiz/trunk/framework/widget/src/org/ofbiz/widget/

I don't have my head wrapped completely around where one part begins or
ends, but David J. or Jacopo might be able to add some insight.  My
reply to David G. was a question, not an interrogative statement.

--- Jonathon -- Improov <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Chris,
>
> A renderer for javascript? Currently, the "renderer" I'm using is
> merely Freemarker.
>
> Jonathon
>
> Chris Howe wrote:
> > In that case, what would be the likelihood of being able to create
> a
> > renderer for it?
> >
> > --- David Goodenough <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >> Tim,
> >>
> >> I am not at all sure what you mean by "tight coupling with the
> HTML".
> >> As you never (or should never) write any HTML as part of the GWT
> code
> >> this makes no sense.  Yes the GWT controls are mapped to HTML, but
> >> you
> >> can make your own controls quite easily, and integrate them into
> the
> >> GWT framework so you are not limited to what simple HTML widgets
> can
> >> do.
> >>
> >> But I am merely a bystander when it comes to OfBiz, so it is for
> >> others
> >> to decide.  What I was reacting to was the thought that getting
> >> Javascript
> >> expertise into OfBiz might be difficult, and so doing things in
> Java
> >> makes
> >> a lot of sense.  Personally I find Javascript to be a problematic
> >> language,
> >> it is very powerful, almost too powerful - you can almost redefine
> >> the
> >> language as you go along - but being interpreted and not type safe
> in
> >> the
> >> way that Java is makes it a much more difficult language to use
> well.
> >>
> >> David
> >>
> >> On Tuesday 24 April 2007 14:39, Tim Ruppert wrote:
> >>> David, we did a number of pilots with GWT (and other frameworks)
> in
> >>> OFBiz and were much happier with the dojo toolkit.  The GWT,
> while
> >>> having the bonus of being able to do everything in java, also
> >>> required a bit more of a tight coupling with the HTML - which in
> my
> >>> mind - made it less desirable.
> >>>
> >>> JSON is there in case you can show us all a better way of
> handling
> >>> it!  Hope that helps.
> >>>
> >>> Cheers,
> >>> Tim
> >>> --
> >>> Tim Ruppert
> >>> HotWax Media
> >>> http://www.hotwaxmedia.com
> >>>
> >>> o:801.649.6594
> >>> f:801.649.6595
> >>>
> >>> On Apr 24, 2007, at 7:06 AM, David Goodenough wrote:
> >>>> Jonathon,
> >>>>
> >>>> Probably the best approach would be to write an xslt script
> which
> >>>> would
> >>>> parse the OfBiz XML descriptors and generate skeleton code which
> >> could
> >>>> then be subclassed to put in specific processing (it may be
> >>>> possible to
> >>>> generate the whole thing, I have not looked closely enough).  I
> >> am
> >>>> thinking
> >>>> of something like the juic system used by QtJambi - the new Java
> >>>> binding
> >>>> for Qt that Trolltech have currently in beta (juic was actually
> >>>> originally
> >>>> part of kdebindings but that is another story).
> >>>>
> >>>> It may sound odd, but actually it is best not to think about
> HTML
> >> and
> >>>> Javascript when coding GWT, it just complicates things.  You can
> >>>> include
> >>>> explicit HTML or Javascript if necessary, but it is better to
> >> start
> >>>> from
> >>>> the position of doing it natively in GWT.  It may be necessary
> >> (or
> >>>> desirable)
> >>>> to write some GWT code to emulate specific OfBiz widgets, I have
> >>>> not looked
> >>>> closely enough to find out.
> >>>>
> >>>> David
> >>>>
> >>>> On Tuesday 24 April 2007 13:22, Jonathon -- Improov wrote:
> >>>>> David,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Seems to me the GWT will generate both the HTML (events) and
> the
> >>>>> Javascript
> >>>>> (event handlers). Is that correct? If so, I'd have to somehow
> >>>>> translate the
> >>>>> HTML output to OFBiz widgets. Still, GWT's support for coding
> in
> >>>>> Java is
> >>>>> cool.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Yes, OFBiz supports JSON (via json-lib). I've been using it
> >> often
> >>>>> in Ajax
> >>>>> work with OFBiz.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Jonathon
> >>>>>
> >>>>> David Goodenough wrote:
> >>>>>> You ask about whether there are Javascript experts around.  Of
> >>>>>> course
> >>>>>> if you were to use GWT (Google Widget Toolkit), you do the
> >>>>>> programming
> >>>>>> in Java and it is translated into Javascript.  That way you
> get
> >>>>>> all the
> >>>>>> strict typing of Java but the implementation on the browser
> >> without
> >>>>>> addons.  GWT is of course now entirely open source and
> >> integrated
> >>>>>> into
> >>>>>> Eclipse quite easily.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> As I read it much of what is needed for using GWT is already
> >>>>>> present in
> >>>>>> Ofbiz, GWT can use JSON as its comms protocol and I think I am
> >>>>>> right in
> >>>>>> saying that JSON is supported by Ofbiz.  You could use SOAP
> but
> >>>>>> JSON is
> >>>>>> lighter weight and as the execution environment is javascript
> >> is
> >>>>>> the more
> >>>>>> native protocol.  GWT does have its own RPC protocol as well,
> >> in
> >>>>>> which
> >>>>>> case you would have to write the server end in its
> environment,
> >>>>>> but there
> >>>>>> is no requirement to use it, JSON (or even native HTTP) will
> do
> >>>>>> perfectly
> >>>>>> well.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> David
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Tuesday 24 April 2007 04:33, Jonathon -- Improov wrote:
> >>>>>>> I was actually looking to pump in my enhancements to the
> >> Widget
> >>>>>>> module.
> >>>>>>> I've incorporated some Ajax-facilitating or Ajax-related
> >> features
> >>>>>>> directly into the Widget module, so I won't have to do HUGE
> >> .ftl
> >>>>>>> (s).
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Imagine being able to use and reuse a widget-screen for 2 (or
> >> more)
> >>>>>>> purposes: non-ajax operation and ajax operation (pulling down
> >>>>>>> various
> >>>>>>> sub-sub-parts of the screen).
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> In general, I was able to make all listings screens (with the
> >>>>>>> Prev/Next
> >>>>>>> hrefs) load via Ajax.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> But be warned that this Ajax approach, if carried further,
> >> could
> >>>>>>> hark
> >>>>>>> back to those times when you programmed Java AWTs for rich
> UIs
> >>>>>>> (events
> >>>>>>> and concurrency). Except there's lots of javascript involved
> >> in
> >>>>>>> this
> >>>>>>> case, not Java, and bad news is there's no concurrency
> >> controls in
> >>>>>>> javascript. Which means, prepare to get wickedly good at
> >>>>>>> acrobatics in
> >>>>>>> javascript (obscure acquired taste, really), or deal with the
> >>>>>>> potential
> >>>>>>> mess and meltdown. Please let me know if there's any experts
>

=== message truncated ===