Re: Something I tried to post to the list...
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Re: Something I tried to post to the list...
 
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Phil, Thanks for writing. I'm not sure I understood the idea you were trying to communicate, so let me re-phrase it back to you: It sounds like you're saying that OFBiz didn't fit your requirements well and the complexity and scope seems better suited to businesses larger than yours, or maybe more accurately, businesses with more complex and wider scoped software needs than what your business has. Does that sound about like what you were trying to say? If so I can totally understand that, and I totally agree with you. OFBiz is really not meant to be a system used OOTB by small businesses. We have tried to communicate this clearly with text front and center and on the OFBiz home page (http://ofbiz.apache.org) under the "Introduction: What is Apache OFBiz?" heading. There is a good chance the text there doesn't clearly represent that. Do you have any ideas about how we could better communicate this? -David Philip Garrow wrote: > Hi David: > > I tried to post the following message to the list and it bounced saying that > it looked like spam to the list filters. I don't know what I am doing > wrong; I felt that someone should read this sentiment. > > Regards, Phil Garrow > > > RE: Help with Ofbiz > > Hi: > > I too was excited about Ofbiz when I found out about it. I was searching > for a web based solution on which to run my business and I thought I found > it. It turns out that what I found was unuseably complex, although > promising. I then sought a programmer to help me customize Ofbiz as needed. > I, like you, balked at a price tag of nearly $30,000.00 to do the work > needed. I then thought that I would put in the time needed to learn Ofbiz > to be able to program the back end of my site... and to allow me to earn > those high consulting fees. I completed a computer science degree ten years > ago and spent a year and a half updating my skills learning Object Oriented > Programming in Java in 2003. Even with this, I was unable to make any > progress trying to work through David Jones's tutorial. So I posted to the > Ofbiz list for help getting starting with Ofbiz and got no replies... > nothing... I spent a month reading about Ofbiz, struggling to get started, > and then decided that my time was really better spent running my business > rather than put any more time in to this marginally supported framework. I > sought and found a commercial solution and for less than a third of the cost > of customizing Ofbiz, and providing almost everything I needed. It is my > opinion that until Ofbiz can do what is needed to soften the steep start-up > curve it will remain just a set of back-end libraries for a small number of > programmers, not a useful tool for small businesses. Kind of like a phrase > book for those who study Sanskrit, not fulfilling the promise of making > open-source software accessible to the masses. Good luck with Ofbiz. If > you are interested in the solution that I found then check out PDG Commerce. > I don't make a nickel on that suggestion. > > Just my $0.02 Phil Garrow > > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: EPaulson [mailto:[hidden email]] >> Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2007 5:20 AM >> To: [hidden email] >> Subject: Help with Ofbiz >> >> >> I am new to Ofbiz as a user. A few months ago I was fortunate enough >> to have a friend install and configure Ofbiz for my business. I >> switched my entire >> operation over to the Ofbiz framework out of sheer optimism/excitement for >> the powerful potention it offers. I have spent countless hours over the >> past >> few years with toying with different OOTB eCommerce solutions...only to >> find >> that there was always some annoying limitation with each and every one of >> them. Ofbiz, I thought, was going to be the solution I had been looking >> for >> the past several years. Finally...I can have EXACTLY what I need to >> operate >> my business the way I envision. Now the dilemma.... >> >> I am not sure if it's the version I am running OR if it's a >> configuration issue, but a healthy chunk of Ofbiz features do not >> function on my site. To just name one...content management. I cannot >> add alt tags, policy pages,etc. >> >> Now, my friend is too busy to work on my site regardless of an hourly >> fee. >> >> The seemingly few of dev. familiar with OFB are also too busy. >> >> Documentation/training videos are too advanced for me unfortunately. >> I am willing to put in the time to learn, but I fear that it would >> take years for me to get where I need to be in order to customize OFB >> for my business...AND >> I don't even know where to begin. >> >> It's frustrating to be dependant on others that have the necessary >> knowledge to help you, BUT they are too busy unless I can un-ass $30K >> on up to become >> a top-level project myself. Please understand, I have the utmost respect >> for anyone that has the knowledge/background necessary to be able to >> navigate through development/implemention of Ofb AND I completely >> understand >> that small business owners like myself cannot expect the same attention as >> companies with big budgets. It's unreasonable for me to expect the luxury >> of >> a tailor-made ERP solution without paying what it's worth. >> >> 1) Is there anyone that has the time AND is willing to spend one-two >> hours per week consulting me on Ofbiz via phone/email/livechat,etc.? >> (walk me through the process of setup/config. and customization from >> time to time. >> >> If YES or if you have some positive suggestions than please email me >> directly with rates/availability. I would like to delete this post >> soon, so please do not respond with a post. >> >> Thank you for taking the time to read this post. >> -- > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.11.19/956 - Release Date: 8/16/2007 > 9:48 AM > > |
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I'm a relative newcomer to ofbiz and while I would say that ofbiz is a daunting app, I think you have to look well into the future before you decide to take it on. In 4 months I've spent at least $20,000 and the customization for my busiess is just beginning. My goal is that in 5 years time, I will still be using ofbiz and it will be able to scale with my growth. There were many things that frustrated me about ofbiz but none that could compare with me being 5 years down the road and being locked into a closed source system.
I would say one thing to anyone considering ofbiz. Just because its free does not mean its free! Good luck with PDG.
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Re: Something I tried to post to the list...
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In reply to this post by David E Jones
Phil, In other words, OFBiz is more than what you were looking for. Enterprise class solutions are very different in nature from small business oriented software. It doesn't sound like you're looking for a Blue Martini or ATG type of thing, even less an ERP-like solution such as SAP or Oracle Financials, or even something like Great Plains or Navision. Sage Software is interesting because they have different product lines that draw this line. It sounds like you're looking for something more on a scale (perhaps not scope) of Sage Peachtree rather than Save Accpac or MAS 90. There is a HUGE difference in how these different types of software are "installed" and used. Just like it was for you it's not uncommon for people to have a bad experience with enterprise class software when they first look at it. It is WAY more complex than they want. Medium and larger sized businesses automate things that small businesses often don't even consider. That's the nature of the business side of things, and the software for different types of businesses has to match the complexity of the businesses it targets. It doesn't mean OFBiz is bad, it's just not what you want. And that's totally fine. Don't worry, I've been discouraging small businesses from using OFBiz for many years now and early on had long conversations with many of them. It's not that OFBiz has no use in the small business world, but most small businesses need something that is meant for businesses like theirs, something that takes from a pool of many thousands of data elements and processes and pulls out just the dozens or hundreds they need for their particular business. I'm copying the user mailing list on this just as I did on my last reply, and as you mentioned you were trying to do. A lot of people run into this problem. Some respond by realizing their experience was bad because their expectations were simply not realistic. They adjust their expectations and their understanding in increases and future related experiences are better. Some respond by complaining and attacking and their understanding gets even further away from reality than it was before and future related experiences get worse and worse. -David Philip Garrow wrote: > Hi David: > > I hope more clearly stated: > > The promise of OfBiz is its use for businesses of all sizes. > > I understand that it is not an OOTB solution, and at the same time I hoped > that my skills in software development and network administration would > allow me to install and configure and configure OfBiz to have at least some > baseline functionality from which I could learn and study further, they > weren’t. OfBiz is large, complex and beyond my skills to begin working > with, and being a skilled computer tech, this means they are beyond all but > the most specifically trained developers. > > Next, I sought developers familiar with OfBiz to develop the back-end for my > business. Their solutions were twice my budget, and once complete could > only be supported by the small count of developers familiar with OfBiz. > > Finally, following your advice I posted a request for help to learn OfBiz to > the user list and received no replies, no support for learning OfBiz. > > In the end it made better business sense for me to use a well supported OOTB > solution, which cost me half the amount to install and configure, even for > my very complex requirements. > > In summation, in my experience there is no circumstance under which I could > recommend OfBiz as a useful tool for running a business or as a useful > course of study for anyone interested in software development for business. > > Until the learning curve for OfBiz can be softened, the cost for commercial > development reduced, and the training for new developers better supported, I > feel that OfBiz is just a bunch of Java Macros for a very few software > geeks. > > Despite my initial excitement for using and learning OfBiz, it has been a > disappointment for me. I hope I was clearer in this letter. > > Regards, Phil Garrow > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > FIGHT BACK AGAINST SPAM! > Download Spam Inspector, the Award Winning Anti-Spam Filter > http://mail.giantcompany.com > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: David E Jones [mailto:[hidden email]] >> Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 7:18 PM >> To: [hidden email] >> Cc: [hidden email] >> Subject: Re: Something I tried to post to the list... >> >> >> Phil, >> >> Thanks for writing. I'm not sure I understood the idea you were trying to >> communicate, so let me re-phrase it back to you: >> >> It sounds like you're saying that OFBiz didn't fit your requirements well >> and the complexity and scope seems better suited to businesses larger than >> yours, or maybe more accurately, businesses with more complex and wider >> scoped software needs than what your business has. >> >> Does that sound about like what you were trying to say? >> >> If so I can totally understand that, and I totally agree with you. OFBiz >> is really not meant to be a system used OOTB by small businesses. We have >> tried to communicate this clearly with text front and center and on the >> OFBiz home page (http://ofbiz.apache.org) under the "Introduction: What is >> Apache OFBiz?" heading. >> >> There is a good chance the text there doesn't clearly represent that. Do >> you have any ideas about how we could better communicate this? >> >> -David >> >> >> Philip Garrow wrote: >>> Hi David: >>> >>> I tried to post the following message to the list and it bounced saying >> that >>> it looked like spam to the list filters. I don't know what I am doing >>> wrong; I felt that someone should read this sentiment. >>> >>> Regards, Phil Garrow >>> >>> >>> RE: Help with Ofbiz >>> >>> Hi: >>> >>> I too was excited about Ofbiz when I found out about it. I was >> searching >>> for a web based solution on which to run my business and I thought I >> found >>> it. It turns out that what I found was unuseably complex, although >>> promising. I then sought a programmer to help me customize Ofbiz as >> needed. >>> I, like you, balked at a price tag of nearly $30,000.00 to do the work >>> needed. I then thought that I would put in the time needed to learn >> Ofbiz >>> to be able to program the back end of my site... and to allow me to earn >>> those high consulting fees. I completed a computer science degree ten >> years >>> ago and spent a year and a half updating my skills learning Object >> Oriented >>> Programming in Java in 2003. Even with this, I was unable to make any >>> progress trying to work through David Jones's tutorial. So I posted to >> the >>> Ofbiz list for help getting starting with Ofbiz and got no replies... >>> nothing... I spent a month reading about Ofbiz, struggling to get >> started, >>> and then decided that my time was really better spent running my >> business >>> rather than put any more time in to this marginally supported framework. >> I >>> sought and found a commercial solution and for less than a third of the >> cost >>> of customizing Ofbiz, and providing almost everything I needed. It is >> my >>> opinion that until Ofbiz can do what is needed to soften the steep >> start-up >>> curve it will remain just a set of back-end libraries for a small number >> of >>> programmers, not a useful tool for small businesses. Kind of like a >> phrase >>> book for those who study Sanskrit, not fulfilling the promise of making >>> open-source software accessible to the masses. Good luck with Ofbiz. >> If >>> you are interested in the solution that I found then check out PDG >> Commerce. >>> I don't make a nickel on that suggestion. >>> >>> Just my $0.02 Phil Garrow >>> >>> >>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: EPaulson [mailto:[hidden email]] >>>> Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2007 5:20 AM >>>> To: [hidden email] >>>> Subject: Help with Ofbiz >>>> >>>> >>>> I am new to Ofbiz as a user. A few months ago I was fortunate enough >>>> to have a friend install and configure Ofbiz for my business. I >>>> switched my entire >>>> operation over to the Ofbiz framework out of sheer optimism/excitement >> for >>>> the powerful potention it offers. I have spent countless hours over the >>>> past >>>> few years with toying with different OOTB eCommerce solutions...only to >>>> find >>>> that there was always some annoying limitation with each and every one >> of >>>> them. Ofbiz, I thought, was going to be the solution I had been >> looking >>>> for >>>> the past several years. Finally...I can have EXACTLY what I need to >>>> operate >>>> my business the way I envision. Now the dilemma.... >>>> >>>> I am not sure if it's the version I am running OR if it's a >>>> configuration issue, but a healthy chunk of Ofbiz features do not >>>> function on my site. To just name one...content management. I cannot >>>> add alt tags, policy pages,etc. >>>> >>>> Now, my friend is too busy to work on my site regardless of an hourly >>>> fee. >>>> >>>> The seemingly few of dev. familiar with OFB are also too busy. >>>> >>>> Documentation/training videos are too advanced for me unfortunately. >>>> I am willing to put in the time to learn, but I fear that it would >>>> take years for me to get where I need to be in order to customize OFB >>>> for my business...AND >>>> I don't even know where to begin. >>>> >>>> It's frustrating to be dependant on others that have the necessary >>>> knowledge to help you, BUT they are too busy unless I can un-ass $30K >>>> on up to become >>>> a top-level project myself. Please understand, I have the utmost >> respect >>>> for anyone that has the knowledge/background necessary to be able to >>>> navigate through development/implemention of Ofb AND I completely >>>> understand >>>> that small business owners like myself cannot expect the same attention >> as >>>> companies with big budgets. It's unreasonable for me to expect the >> luxury >>>> of >>>> a tailor-made ERP solution without paying what it's worth. >>>> >>>> 1) Is there anyone that has the time AND is willing to spend one-two >>>> hours per week consulting me on Ofbiz via phone/email/livechat,etc.? >>>> (walk me through the process of setup/config. and customization from >>>> time to time. >>>> >>>> If YES or if you have some positive suggestions than please email me >>>> directly with rates/availability. I would like to delete this post >>>> soon, so please do not respond with a post. >>>> >>>> Thank you for taking the time to read this post. >>>> -- >>> No virus found in this outgoing message. >>> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >>> Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.11.19/956 - Release Date: >> 8/16/2007 >>> 9:48 AM >>> >>> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >> Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.11.19/956 - Release Date: 8/16/2007 >> 9:48 AM >> > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.11.19/956 - Release Date: 8/16/2007 > 9:48 AM > > |
Re: Something I tried to post to the list...
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Hi Phil
I don't have a lot to add to this except that for myself OFBiz is not so difficult to learn if approached from the correct perspective. When I first found OFBiz the first thing I did was try to begin customizing straight away with no real understanding of how the system worked. I quickly realized I was getting nowhere but instead of giving up I just put my implementation on hold and joined the community instead. I read every email that came through including the commit logs and began looking for JIRA issues that I thought I could handle or at least investigate. Within a couple of months I understood the general flow of the system and could quickly dive into different features and gain insight into how they functioned. Now a year and a half later I'm an OFBiz committer, member of the PMC and my implementation is rolling along quite nicely. All of this with no prior experience in programming or the software industry and entirely in my spare time of about 5-10 hours per week. The point I'm trying to make is that the value of contributing to the community shouldn't be underestimated, your contributions are reviewed by people with vast amounts of experience using OFBiz which makes their suggestions for improvement invaluable. Your questions are also much more likely to be answered (even though in my experience on the lists most questions that make any sort of sense usually get an answer) but before long you won't need to be asking too many questions anyway. Regards Scott On 17/08/07, David E Jones <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > Phil, > > In other words, OFBiz is more than what you were looking for. Enterprise > class solutions are very different in nature from small business oriented > software. It doesn't sound like you're looking for a Blue Martini or ATG > type of thing, even less an ERP-like solution such as SAP or Oracle > Financials, or even something like Great Plains or Navision. Sage Software > is interesting because they have different product lines that draw this > line. It sounds like you're looking for something more on a scale (perhaps > not scope) of Sage Peachtree rather than Save Accpac or MAS 90. > > There is a HUGE difference in how these different types of software are > "installed" and used. > > Just like it was for you it's not uncommon for people to have a bad > experience with enterprise class software when they first look at it. It is > WAY more complex than they want. Medium and larger sized businesses automate > things that small businesses often don't even consider. That's the nature of > the business side of things, and the software for different types of > businesses has to match the complexity of the businesses it targets. > > It doesn't mean OFBiz is bad, it's just not what you want. And that's > totally fine. Don't worry, I've been discouraging small businesses from > using OFBiz for many years now and early on had long conversations with many > of them. > > It's not that OFBiz has no use in the small business world, but most small > businesses need something that is meant for businesses like theirs, > something that takes from a pool of many thousands of data elements and > processes and pulls out just the dozens or hundreds they need for their > particular business. > > I'm copying the user mailing list on this just as I did on my last reply, > and as you mentioned you were trying to do. A lot of people run into this > problem. Some respond by realizing their experience was bad because their > expectations were simply not realistic. They adjust their expectations and > their understanding in increases and future related experiences are better. > Some respond by complaining and attacking and their understanding gets even > further away from reality than it was before and future related experiences > get worse and worse. > > -David > > > Philip Garrow wrote: > > Hi David: > > > > I hope more clearly stated: > > > > The promise of OfBiz is its use for businesses of all sizes. > > > > I understand that it is not an OOTB solution, and at the same time I > hoped > > that my skills in software development and network administration would > > allow me to install and configure and configure OfBiz to have at least > some > > baseline functionality from which I could learn and study further, they > > weren't. OfBiz is large, complex and beyond my skills to begin working > > with, and being a skilled computer tech, this means they are beyond all > but > > the most specifically trained developers. > > > > Next, I sought developers familiar with OfBiz to develop the back-end > for my > > business. Their solutions were twice my budget, and once complete could > > only be supported by the small count of developers familiar with OfBiz. > > > > Finally, following your advice I posted a request for help to learn > OfBiz to > > the user list and received no replies, no support for learning OfBiz. > > > > In the end it made better business sense for me to use a well supported > OOTB > > solution, which cost me half the amount to install and configure, even > for > > my very complex requirements. > > > > In summation, in my experience there is no circumstance under which I > could > > recommend OfBiz as a useful tool for running a business or as a useful > > course of study for anyone interested in software development for > business. > > > > Until the learning curve for OfBiz can be softened, the cost for > commercial > > development reduced, and the training for new developers better > supported, I > > feel that OfBiz is just a bunch of Java Macros for a very few software > > geeks. > > > > Despite my initial excitement for using and learning OfBiz, it has been > a > > disappointment for me. I hope I was clearer in this letter. > > > > Regards, Phil Garrow > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ---------- > > FIGHT BACK AGAINST SPAM! > > Download Spam Inspector, the Award Winning Anti-Spam Filter > > http://mail.giantcompany.com > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: David E Jones [mailto:[hidden email]] > >> Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 7:18 PM > >> To: [hidden email] > >> Cc: [hidden email] > >> Subject: Re: Something I tried to post to the list... > >> > >> > >> Phil, > >> > >> Thanks for writing. I'm not sure I understood the idea you were trying > to > >> communicate, so let me re-phrase it back to you: > >> > >> It sounds like you're saying that OFBiz didn't fit your requirements > well > >> and the complexity and scope seems better suited to businesses larger > than > >> yours, or maybe more accurately, businesses with more complex and wider > >> scoped software needs than what your business has. > >> > >> Does that sound about like what you were trying to say? > >> > >> If so I can totally understand that, and I totally agree with you. > OFBiz > >> is really not meant to be a system used OOTB by small businesses. We > have > >> tried to communicate this clearly with text front and center and on the > >> OFBiz home page (http://ofbiz.apache.org) under the "Introduction: What > is > >> Apache OFBiz?" heading. > >> > >> There is a good chance the text there doesn't clearly represent that. > Do > >> you have any ideas about how we could better communicate this? > >> > >> -David > >> > >> > >> Philip Garrow wrote: > >>> Hi David: > >>> > >>> I tried to post the following message to the list and it bounced > saying > >> that > >>> it looked like spam to the list filters. I don't know what I am doing > >>> wrong; I felt that someone should read this sentiment. > >>> > >>> Regards, Phil Garrow > >>> > >>> > >>> RE: Help with Ofbiz > >>> > >>> Hi: > >>> > >>> I too was excited about Ofbiz when I found out about it. I was > >> searching > >>> for a web based solution on which to run my business and I thought I > >> found > >>> it. It turns out that what I found was unuseably complex, although > >>> promising. I then sought a programmer to help me customize Ofbiz as > >> needed. > >>> I, like you, balked at a price tag of nearly $30,000.00 to do the work > >>> needed. I then thought that I would put in the time needed to learn > >> Ofbiz > >>> to be able to program the back end of my site... and to allow me to > earn > >>> those high consulting fees. I completed a computer science degree ten > >> years > >>> ago and spent a year and a half updating my skills learning Object > >> Oriented > >>> Programming in Java in 2003. Even with this, I was unable to make any > >>> progress trying to work through David Jones's tutorial. So I posted > to > >> the > >>> Ofbiz list for help getting starting with Ofbiz and got no replies... > >>> nothing... I spent a month reading about Ofbiz, struggling to get > >> started, > >>> and then decided that my time was really better spent running my > >> business > >>> rather than put any more time in to this marginally supported > framework. > >> I > >>> sought and found a commercial solution and for less than a third of > the > >> cost > >>> of customizing Ofbiz, and providing almost everything I needed. It is > >> my > >>> opinion that until Ofbiz can do what is needed to soften the steep > >> start-up > >>> curve it will remain just a set of back-end libraries for a small > number > >> of > >>> programmers, not a useful tool for small businesses. Kind of like a > >> phrase > >>> book for those who study Sanskrit, not fulfilling the promise of > making > >>> open-source software accessible to the masses. Good luck with Ofbiz. > >> If > >>> you are interested in the solution that I found then check out PDG > >> Commerce. > >>> I don't make a nickel on that suggestion. > >>> > >>> Just my $0.02 Phil Garrow > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: EPaulson [mailto:[hidden email]] > >>>> Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2007 5:20 AM > >>>> To: [hidden email] > >>>> Subject: Help with Ofbiz > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> I am new to Ofbiz as a user. A few months ago I was fortunate enough > >>>> to have a friend install and configure Ofbiz for my business. I > >>>> switched my entire > >>>> operation over to the Ofbiz framework out of sheer > optimism/excitement > >> for > >>>> the powerful potention it offers. I have spent countless hours over > the > >>>> past > >>>> few years with toying with different OOTB eCommerce solutions...only > to > >>>> find > >>>> that there was always some annoying limitation with each and every > one > >> of > >>>> them. Ofbiz, I thought, was going to be the solution I had been > >> looking > >>>> for > >>>> the past several years. Finally...I can have EXACTLY what I need to > >>>> operate > >>>> my business the way I envision. Now the dilemma.... > >>>> > >>>> I am not sure if it's the version I am running OR if it's a > >>>> configuration issue, but a healthy chunk of Ofbiz features do not > >>>> function on my site. To just name one...content management. I cannot > >>>> add alt tags, policy pages,etc. > >>>> > >>>> Now, my friend is too busy to work on my site regardless of an hourly > >>>> fee. > >>>> > >>>> The seemingly few of dev. familiar with OFB are also too busy. > >>>> > >>>> Documentation/training videos are too advanced for me unfortunately. > >>>> I am willing to put in the time to learn, but I fear that it would > >>>> take years for me to get where I need to be in order to customize OFB > >>>> for my business...AND > >>>> I don't even know where to begin. > >>>> > >>>> It's frustrating to be dependant on others that have the necessary > >>>> knowledge to help you, BUT they are too busy unless I can un-ass $30K > >>>> on up to become > >>>> a top-level project myself. Please understand, I have the utmost > >> respect > >>>> for anyone that has the knowledge/background necessary to be able to > >>>> navigate through development/implemention of Ofb AND I completely > >>>> understand > >>>> that small business owners like myself cannot expect the same > attention > >> as > >>>> companies with big budgets. It's unreasonable for me to expect the > >> luxury > >>>> of > >>>> a tailor-made ERP solution without paying what it's worth. > >>>> > >>>> 1) Is there anyone that has the time AND is willing to spend one-two > >>>> hours per week consulting me on Ofbiz via phone/email/livechat,etc.? > >>>> (walk me through the process of setup/config. and customization from > >>>> time to time. > >>>> > >>>> If YES or if you have some positive suggestions than please email me > >>>> directly with rates/availability. I would like to delete this post > >>>> soon, so please do not respond with a post. > >>>> > >>>> Thank you for taking the time to read this post. > >>>> -- > >>> No virus found in this outgoing message. > >>> Checked by AVG Free Edition. > >>> Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.11.19/956 - Release Date: > >> 8/16/2007 > >>> 9:48 AM > >>> > >>> > >> No virus found in this incoming message. > >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. > >> Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.11.19/956 - Release Date: > 8/16/2007 > >> 9:48 AM > >> > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.11.19/956 - Release Date: > 8/16/2007 > > 9:48 AM > > > > > |
Re: Something I tried to post to the list...
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Wow,
this sounds like a beautiful 'user story', thank you Scott. It would be great to add it to the OFBiz's 'marketing' pages. Jacopo Scott Gray wrote: > Hi Phil > > I don't have a lot to add to this except that for myself OFBiz is not so > difficult to learn if approached from the correct perspective. When I first > found OFBiz the first thing I did was try to begin customizing straight away > with no real understanding of how the system worked. I quickly realized I > was getting nowhere but instead of giving up I just put my implementation on > hold and joined the community instead. > > I read every email that came through including the commit logs and began > looking for JIRA issues that I thought I could handle or at least > investigate. Within a couple of months I understood the general flow of the > system and could quickly dive into different features and gain insight into > how they functioned. > > Now a year and a half later I'm an OFBiz committer, member of the PMC and my > implementation is rolling along quite nicely. All of this with no prior > experience in programming or the software industry and entirely in my spare > time of about 5-10 hours per week. > > The point I'm trying to make is that the value of contributing to the > community shouldn't be underestimated, your contributions are reviewed by > people with vast amounts of experience using OFBiz which makes their > suggestions for improvement invaluable. Your questions are also much more > likely to be answered (even though in my experience on the lists most > questions that make any sort of sense usually get an answer) but before long > you won't need to be asking too many questions anyway. > > Regards > Scott > > On 17/08/07, David E Jones <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >> Phil, >> >> In other words, OFBiz is more than what you were looking for. Enterprise >> class solutions are very different in nature from small business oriented >> software. It doesn't sound like you're looking for a Blue Martini or ATG >> type of thing, even less an ERP-like solution such as SAP or Oracle >> Financials, or even something like Great Plains or Navision. Sage Software >> is interesting because they have different product lines that draw this >> line. It sounds like you're looking for something more on a scale (perhaps >> not scope) of Sage Peachtree rather than Save Accpac or MAS 90. >> >> There is a HUGE difference in how these different types of software are >> "installed" and used. >> >> Just like it was for you it's not uncommon for people to have a bad >> experience with enterprise class software when they first look at it. It is >> WAY more complex than they want. Medium and larger sized businesses automate >> things that small businesses often don't even consider. That's the nature of >> the business side of things, and the software for different types of >> businesses has to match the complexity of the businesses it targets. >> >> It doesn't mean OFBiz is bad, it's just not what you want. And that's >> totally fine. Don't worry, I've been discouraging small businesses from >> using OFBiz for many years now and early on had long conversations with many >> of them. >> >> It's not that OFBiz has no use in the small business world, but most small >> businesses need something that is meant for businesses like theirs, >> something that takes from a pool of many thousands of data elements and >> processes and pulls out just the dozens or hundreds they need for their >> particular business. >> >> I'm copying the user mailing list on this just as I did on my last reply, >> and as you mentioned you were trying to do. A lot of people run into this >> problem. Some respond by realizing their experience was bad because their >> expectations were simply not realistic. They adjust their expectations and >> their understanding in increases and future related experiences are better. >> Some respond by complaining and attacking and their understanding gets even >> further away from reality than it was before and future related experiences >> get worse and worse. >> >> -David >> >> >> Philip Garrow wrote: >>> Hi David: >>> >>> I hope more clearly stated: >>> >>> The promise of OfBiz is its use for businesses of all sizes. >>> >>> I understand that it is not an OOTB solution, and at the same time I >> hoped >>> that my skills in software development and network administration would >>> allow me to install and configure and configure OfBiz to have at least >> some >>> baseline functionality from which I could learn and study further, they >>> weren't. OfBiz is large, complex and beyond my skills to begin working >>> with, and being a skilled computer tech, this means they are beyond all >> but >>> the most specifically trained developers. >>> >>> Next, I sought developers familiar with OfBiz to develop the back-end >> for my >>> business. Their solutions were twice my budget, and once complete could >>> only be supported by the small count of developers familiar with OfBiz. >>> >>> Finally, following your advice I posted a request for help to learn >> OfBiz to >>> the user list and received no replies, no support for learning OfBiz. >>> >>> In the end it made better business sense for me to use a well supported >> OOTB >>> solution, which cost me half the amount to install and configure, even >> for >>> my very complex requirements. >>> >>> In summation, in my experience there is no circumstance under which I >> could >>> recommend OfBiz as a useful tool for running a business or as a useful >>> course of study for anyone interested in software development for >> business. >>> Until the learning curve for OfBiz can be softened, the cost for >> commercial >>> development reduced, and the training for new developers better >> supported, I >>> feel that OfBiz is just a bunch of Java Macros for a very few software >>> geeks. >>> >>> Despite my initial excitement for using and learning OfBiz, it has been >> a >>> disappointment for me. I hope I was clearer in this letter. >>> >>> Regards, Phil Garrow >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> ---------- >>> FIGHT BACK AGAINST SPAM! >>> Download Spam Inspector, the Award Winning Anti-Spam Filter >>> http://mail.giantcompany.com >>> >>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: David E Jones [mailto:[hidden email]] >>>> Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 7:18 PM >>>> To: [hidden email] >>>> Cc: [hidden email] >>>> Subject: Re: Something I tried to post to the list... >>>> >>>> >>>> Phil, >>>> >>>> Thanks for writing. I'm not sure I understood the idea you were trying >> to >>>> communicate, so let me re-phrase it back to you: >>>> >>>> It sounds like you're saying that OFBiz didn't fit your requirements >> well >>>> and the complexity and scope seems better suited to businesses larger >> than >>>> yours, or maybe more accurately, businesses with more complex and wider >>>> scoped software needs than what your business has. >>>> >>>> Does that sound about like what you were trying to say? >>>> >>>> If so I can totally understand that, and I totally agree with you. >> OFBiz >>>> is really not meant to be a system used OOTB by small businesses. We >> have >>>> tried to communicate this clearly with text front and center and on the >>>> OFBiz home page (http://ofbiz.apache.org) under the "Introduction: What >> is >>>> Apache OFBiz?" heading. >>>> >>>> There is a good chance the text there doesn't clearly represent that. >> Do >>>> you have any ideas about how we could better communicate this? >>>> >>>> -David >>>> >>>> >>>> Philip Garrow wrote: >>>>> Hi David: >>>>> >>>>> I tried to post the following message to the list and it bounced >> saying >>>> that >>>>> it looked like spam to the list filters. I don't know what I am doing >>>>> wrong; I felt that someone should read this sentiment. >>>>> >>>>> Regards, Phil Garrow >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> RE: Help with Ofbiz >>>>> >>>>> Hi: >>>>> >>>>> I too was excited about Ofbiz when I found out about it. I was >>>> searching >>>>> for a web based solution on which to run my business and I thought I >>>> found >>>>> it. It turns out that what I found was unuseably complex, although >>>>> promising. I then sought a programmer to help me customize Ofbiz as >>>> needed. >>>>> I, like you, balked at a price tag of nearly $30,000.00 to do the work >>>>> needed. I then thought that I would put in the time needed to learn >>>> Ofbiz >>>>> to be able to program the back end of my site... and to allow me to >> earn >>>>> those high consulting fees. I completed a computer science degree ten >>>> years >>>>> ago and spent a year and a half updating my skills learning Object >>>> Oriented >>>>> Programming in Java in 2003. Even with this, I was unable to make any >>>>> progress trying to work through David Jones's tutorial. So I posted >> to >>>> the >>>>> Ofbiz list for help getting starting with Ofbiz and got no replies... >>>>> nothing... I spent a month reading about Ofbiz, struggling to get >>>> started, >>>>> and then decided that my time was really better spent running my >>>> business >>>>> rather than put any more time in to this marginally supported >> framework. >>>> I >>>>> sought and found a commercial solution and for less than a third of >> the >>>> cost >>>>> of customizing Ofbiz, and providing almost everything I needed. It is >>>> my >>>>> opinion that until Ofbiz can do what is needed to soften the steep >>>> start-up >>>>> curve it will remain just a set of back-end libraries for a small >> number >>>> of >>>>> programmers, not a useful tool for small businesses. Kind of like a >>>> phrase >>>>> book for those who study Sanskrit, not fulfilling the promise of >> making >>>>> open-source software accessible to the masses. Good luck with Ofbiz. >>>> If >>>>> you are interested in the solution that I found then check out PDG >>>> Commerce. >>>>> I don't make a nickel on that suggestion. >>>>> >>>>> Just my $0.02 Phil Garrow >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: EPaulson [mailto:[hidden email]] >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2007 5:20 AM >>>>>> To: [hidden email] >>>>>> Subject: Help with Ofbiz >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I am new to Ofbiz as a user. A few months ago I was fortunate enough >>>>>> to have a friend install and configure Ofbiz for my business. I >>>>>> switched my entire >>>>>> operation over to the Ofbiz framework out of sheer >> optimism/excitement >>>> for >>>>>> the powerful potention it offers. I have spent countless hours over >> the >>>>>> past >>>>>> few years with toying with different OOTB eCommerce solutions...only >> to >>>>>> find >>>>>> that there was always some annoying limitation with each and every >> one >>>> of >>>>>> them. Ofbiz, I thought, was going to be the solution I had been >>>> looking >>>>>> for >>>>>> the past several years. Finally...I can have EXACTLY what I need to >>>>>> operate >>>>>> my business the way I envision. Now the dilemma.... >>>>>> >>>>>> I am not sure if it's the version I am running OR if it's a >>>>>> configuration issue, but a healthy chunk of Ofbiz features do not >>>>>> function on my site. To just name one...content management. I cannot >>>>>> add alt tags, policy pages,etc. >>>>>> >>>>>> Now, my friend is too busy to work on my site regardless of an hourly >>>>>> fee. >>>>>> >>>>>> The seemingly few of dev. familiar with OFB are also too busy. >>>>>> >>>>>> Documentation/training videos are too advanced for me unfortunately. >>>>>> I am willing to put in the time to learn, but I fear that it would >>>>>> take years for me to get where I need to be in order to customize OFB >>>>>> for my business...AND >>>>>> I don't even know where to begin. >>>>>> >>>>>> It's frustrating to be dependant on others that have the necessary >>>>>> knowledge to help you, BUT they are too busy unless I can un-ass $30K >>>>>> on up to become >>>>>> a top-level project myself. Please understand, I have the utmost >>>> respect >>>>>> for anyone that has the knowledge/background necessary to be able to >>>>>> navigate through development/implemention of Ofb AND I completely >>>>>> understand >>>>>> that small business owners like myself cannot expect the same >> attention >>>> as >>>>>> companies with big budgets. It's unreasonable for me to expect the >>>> luxury >>>>>> of >>>>>> a tailor-made ERP solution without paying what it's worth. >>>>>> >>>>>> 1) Is there anyone that has the time AND is willing to spend one-two >>>>>> hours per week consulting me on Ofbiz via phone/email/livechat,etc.? >>>>>> (walk me through the process of setup/config. and customization from >>>>>> time to time. >>>>>> >>>>>> If YES or if you have some positive suggestions than please email me >>>>>> directly with rates/availability. I would like to delete this post >>>>>> soon, so please do not respond with a post. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you for taking the time to read this post. >>>>>> -- >>>>> No virus found in this outgoing message. >>>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >>>>> Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.11.19/956 - Release Date: >>>> 8/16/2007 >>>>> 9:48 AM >>>>> >>>>> >>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >>>> Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.11.19/956 - Release Date: >> 8/16/2007 >>>> 9:48 AM >>>> >>> No virus found in this outgoing message. >>> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >>> Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.11.19/956 - Release Date: >> 8/16/2007 >>> 9:48 AM >>> >>> > |
Re: Something I tried to post to the list...
|
|
Hi Jacopo
Thanks for the feedback, I'd be more than happy to have that posted on a suitable page. I'll look into it over the weekend. Regards Scott On 17/08/07, Jacopo Cappellato <[hidden email]> wrote: > > Wow, > > this sounds like a beautiful 'user story', thank you Scott. > It would be great to add it to the OFBiz's 'marketing' pages. > > Jacopo > > Scott Gray wrote: > > Hi Phil > > > > I don't have a lot to add to this except that for myself OFBiz is not so > > difficult to learn if approached from the correct perspective. When I > first > > found OFBiz the first thing I did was try to begin customizing straight > away > > with no real understanding of how the system worked. I quickly realized > I > > was getting nowhere but instead of giving up I just put my > implementation on > > hold and joined the community instead. > > > > I read every email that came through including the commit logs and began > > looking for JIRA issues that I thought I could handle or at least > > investigate. Within a couple of months I understood the general flow of > the > > system and could quickly dive into different features and gain insight > into > > how they functioned. > > > > Now a year and a half later I'm an OFBiz committer, member of the PMC > and my > > implementation is rolling along quite nicely. All of this with no prior > > experience in programming or the software industry and entirely in my > spare > > time of about 5-10 hours per week. > > > > The point I'm trying to make is that the value of contributing to the > > community shouldn't be underestimated, your contributions are reviewed > by > > people with vast amounts of experience using OFBiz which makes their > > suggestions for improvement invaluable. Your questions are also much > more > > likely to be answered (even though in my experience on the lists most > > questions that make any sort of sense usually get an answer) but before > long > > you won't need to be asking too many questions anyway. > > > > Regards > > Scott > > > > On 17/08/07, David E Jones <[hidden email]> wrote: > >> > >> Phil, > >> > >> In other words, OFBiz is more than what you were looking for. > Enterprise > >> class solutions are very different in nature from small business > oriented > >> software. It doesn't sound like you're looking for a Blue Martini or > ATG > >> type of thing, even less an ERP-like solution such as SAP or Oracle > >> Financials, or even something like Great Plains or Navision. Sage > Software > >> is interesting because they have different product lines that draw this > >> line. It sounds like you're looking for something more on a scale > (perhaps > >> not scope) of Sage Peachtree rather than Save Accpac or MAS 90. > >> > >> There is a HUGE difference in how these different types of software are > >> "installed" and used. > >> > >> Just like it was for you it's not uncommon for people to have a bad > >> experience with enterprise class software when they first look at it. > It is > >> WAY more complex than they want. Medium and larger sized businesses > automate > >> things that small businesses often don't even consider. That's the > nature of > >> the business side of things, and the software for different types of > >> businesses has to match the complexity of the businesses it targets. > >> > >> It doesn't mean OFBiz is bad, it's just not what you want. And that's > >> totally fine. Don't worry, I've been discouraging small businesses from > >> using OFBiz for many years now and early on had long conversations with > many > >> of them. > >> > >> It's not that OFBiz has no use in the small business world, but most > small > >> businesses need something that is meant for businesses like theirs, > >> something that takes from a pool of many thousands of data elements and > >> processes and pulls out just the dozens or hundreds they need for their > >> particular business. > >> > >> I'm copying the user mailing list on this just as I did on my last > reply, > >> and as you mentioned you were trying to do. A lot of people run into > this > >> problem. Some respond by realizing their experience was bad because > their > >> expectations were simply not realistic. They adjust their expectations > and > >> their understanding in increases and future related experiences are > better. > >> Some respond by complaining and attacking and their understanding gets > even > >> further away from reality than it was before and future related > experiences > >> get worse and worse. > >> > >> -David > >> > >> > >> Philip Garrow wrote: > >>> Hi David: > >>> > >>> I hope more clearly stated: > >>> > >>> The promise of OfBiz is its use for businesses of all sizes. > >>> > >>> I understand that it is not an OOTB solution, and at the same time I > >> hoped > >>> that my skills in software development and network administration > would > >>> allow me to install and configure and configure OfBiz to have at least > >> some > >>> baseline functionality from which I could learn and study further, > they > >>> weren't. OfBiz is large, complex and beyond my skills to begin > working > >>> with, and being a skilled computer tech, this means they are beyond > all > >> but > >>> the most specifically trained developers. > >>> > >>> Next, I sought developers familiar with OfBiz to develop the back-end > >> for my > >>> business. Their solutions were twice my budget, and once complete > could > >>> only be supported by the small count of developers familiar with > OfBiz. > >>> > >>> Finally, following your advice I posted a request for help to learn > >> OfBiz to > >>> the user list and received no replies, no support for learning OfBiz. > >>> > >>> In the end it made better business sense for me to use a well > supported > >> OOTB > >>> solution, which cost me half the amount to install and configure, even > >> for > >>> my very complex requirements. > >>> > >>> In summation, in my experience there is no circumstance under which I > >> could > >>> recommend OfBiz as a useful tool for running a business or as a useful > >>> course of study for anyone interested in software development for > >> business. > >>> Until the learning curve for OfBiz can be softened, the cost for > >> commercial > >>> development reduced, and the training for new developers better > >> supported, I > >>> feel that OfBiz is just a bunch of Java Macros for a very few software > >>> geeks. > >>> > >>> Despite my initial excitement for using and learning OfBiz, it has > been > >> a > >>> disappointment for me. I hope I was clearer in this letter. > >>> > >>> Regards, Phil Garrow > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> ---------- > >>> FIGHT BACK AGAINST SPAM! > >>> Download Spam Inspector, the Award Winning Anti-Spam Filter > >>> http://mail.giantcompany.com > >>> > >>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: David E Jones [mailto:[hidden email]] > >>>> Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 7:18 PM > >>>> To: [hidden email] > >>>> Cc: [hidden email] > >>>> Subject: Re: Something I tried to post to the list... > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Phil, > >>>> > >>>> Thanks for writing. I'm not sure I understood the idea you were > trying > >> to > >>>> communicate, so let me re-phrase it back to you: > >>>> > >>>> It sounds like you're saying that OFBiz didn't fit your requirements > >> well > >>>> and the complexity and scope seems better suited to businesses larger > >> than > >>>> yours, or maybe more accurately, businesses with more complex and > wider > >>>> scoped software needs than what your business has. > >>>> > >>>> Does that sound about like what you were trying to say? > >>>> > >>>> If so I can totally understand that, and I totally agree with you. > >> OFBiz > >>>> is really not meant to be a system used OOTB by small businesses. We > >> have > >>>> tried to communicate this clearly with text front and center and on > the > >>>> OFBiz home page (http://ofbiz.apache.org) under the "Introduction: > What > >> is > >>>> Apache OFBiz?" heading. > >>>> > >>>> There is a good chance the text there doesn't clearly represent that. > >> Do > >>>> you have any ideas about how we could better communicate this? > >>>> > >>>> -David > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Philip Garrow wrote: > >>>>> Hi David: > >>>>> > >>>>> I tried to post the following message to the list and it bounced > >> saying > >>>> that > >>>>> it looked like spam to the list filters. I don't know what I am > doing > >>>>> wrong; I felt that someone should read this sentiment. > >>>>> > >>>>> Regards, Phil Garrow > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> RE: Help with Ofbiz > >>>>> > >>>>> Hi: > >>>>> > >>>>> I too was excited about Ofbiz when I found out about it. I was > >>>> searching > >>>>> for a web based solution on which to run my business and I thought I > >>>> found > >>>>> it. It turns out that what I found was unuseably complex, although > >>>>> promising. I then sought a programmer to help me customize Ofbiz as > >>>> needed. > >>>>> I, like you, balked at a price tag of nearly $30,000.00 to do the > work > >>>>> needed. I then thought that I would put in the time needed to learn > >>>> Ofbiz > >>>>> to be able to program the back end of my site... and to allow me to > >> earn > >>>>> those high consulting fees. I completed a computer science degree > ten > >>>> years > >>>>> ago and spent a year and a half updating my skills learning Object > >>>> Oriented > >>>>> Programming in Java in 2003. Even with this, I was unable to make > any > >>>>> progress trying to work through David Jones's tutorial. So I posted > >> to > >>>> the > >>>>> Ofbiz list for help getting starting with Ofbiz and got no > replies... > >>>>> nothing... I spent a month reading about Ofbiz, struggling to get > >>>> started, > >>>>> and then decided that my time was really better spent running my > >>>> business > >>>>> rather than put any more time in to this marginally supported > >> framework. > >>>> I > >>>>> sought and found a commercial solution and for less than a third of > >> the > >>>> cost > >>>>> of customizing Ofbiz, and providing almost everything I needed. It > is > >>>> my > >>>>> opinion that until Ofbiz can do what is needed to soften the steep > >>>> start-up > >>>>> curve it will remain just a set of back-end libraries for a small > >> number > >>>> of > >>>>> programmers, not a useful tool for small businesses. Kind of like a > >>>> phrase > >>>>> book for those who study Sanskrit, not fulfilling the promise of > >> making > >>>>> open-source software accessible to the masses. Good luck with > Ofbiz. > >>>> If > >>>>> you are interested in the solution that I found then check out PDG > >>>> Commerce. > >>>>> I don't make a nickel on that suggestion. > >>>>> > >>>>> Just my $0.02 Phil Garrow > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>>> From: EPaulson [mailto:[hidden email]] > >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2007 5:20 AM > >>>>>> To: [hidden email] > >>>>>> Subject: Help with Ofbiz > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I am new to Ofbiz as a user. A few months ago I was fortunate > enough > >>>>>> to have a friend install and configure Ofbiz for my business. I > >>>>>> switched my entire > >>>>>> operation over to the Ofbiz framework out of sheer > >> optimism/excitement > >>>> for > >>>>>> the powerful potention it offers. I have spent countless hours over > >> the > >>>>>> past > >>>>>> few years with toying with different OOTB eCommerce > solutions...only > >> to > >>>>>> find > >>>>>> that there was always some annoying limitation with each and every > >> one > >>>> of > >>>>>> them. Ofbiz, I thought, was going to be the solution I had been > >>>> looking > >>>>>> for > >>>>>> the past several years. Finally...I can have EXACTLY what I need to > >>>>>> operate > >>>>>> my business the way I envision. Now the dilemma.... > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I am not sure if it's the version I am running OR if it's a > >>>>>> configuration issue, but a healthy chunk of Ofbiz features do not > >>>>>> function on my site. To just name one...content management. I > cannot > >>>>>> add alt tags, policy pages,etc. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Now, my friend is too busy to work on my site regardless of an > hourly > >>>>>> fee. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> The seemingly few of dev. familiar with OFB are also too busy. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Documentation/training videos are too advanced for me > unfortunately. > >>>>>> I am willing to put in the time to learn, but I fear that it would > >>>>>> take years for me to get where I need to be in order to customize > OFB > >>>>>> for my business...AND > >>>>>> I don't even know where to begin. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> It's frustrating to be dependant on others that have the necessary > >>>>>> knowledge to help you, BUT they are too busy unless I can un-ass > $30K > >>>>>> on up to become > >>>>>> a top-level project myself. Please understand, I have the utmost > >>>> respect > >>>>>> for anyone that has the knowledge/background necessary to be able > to > >>>>>> navigate through development/implemention of Ofb AND I completely > >>>>>> understand > >>>>>> that small business owners like myself cannot expect the same > >> attention > >>>> as > >>>>>> companies with big budgets. It's unreasonable for me to expect the > >>>> luxury > >>>>>> of > >>>>>> a tailor-made ERP solution without paying what it's worth. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> 1) Is there anyone that has the time AND is willing to spend > one-two > >>>>>> hours per week consulting me on Ofbiz via > phone/email/livechat,etc.? > >>>>>> (walk me through the process of setup/config. and customization > from > >>>>>> time to time. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> If YES or if you have some positive suggestions than please email > me > >>>>>> directly with rates/availability. I would like to delete this post > >>>>>> soon, so please do not respond with a post. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Thank you for taking the time to read this post. > >>>>>> -- > >>>>> No virus found in this outgoing message. > >>>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition. > >>>>> Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.11.19/956 - Release Date: > >>>> 8/16/2007 > >>>>> 9:48 AM > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> No virus found in this incoming message. > >>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition. > >>>> Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.11.19/956 - Release Date: > >> 8/16/2007 > >>>> 9:48 AM > >>>> > >>> No virus found in this outgoing message. > >>> Checked by AVG Free Edition. > >>> Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.11.19/956 - Release Date: > >> 8/16/2007 > >>> 9:48 AM > >>> > >>> > > > > > |
Re: Something I tried to post to the list...
|
|
Great,
the page is here: http://docs.ofbiz.org/x/UwM Jacopo Scott Gray wrote: > Hi Jacopo > > Thanks for the feedback, I'd be more than happy to have that posted on a > suitable page. I'll look into it over the weekend. > > Regards > Scott > > On 17/08/07, Jacopo Cappellato <[hidden email]> wrote: >> Wow, >> >> this sounds like a beautiful 'user story', thank you Scott. >> It would be great to add it to the OFBiz's 'marketing' pages. >> >> Jacopo >> >> Scott Gray wrote: >>> Hi Phil >>> >>> I don't have a lot to add to this except that for myself OFBiz is not so >>> difficult to learn if approached from the correct perspective. When I >> first >>> found OFBiz the first thing I did was try to begin customizing straight >> away >>> with no real understanding of how the system worked. I quickly realized >> I >>> was getting nowhere but instead of giving up I just put my >> implementation on >>> hold and joined the community instead. >>> >>> I read every email that came through including the commit logs and began >>> looking for JIRA issues that I thought I could handle or at least >>> investigate. Within a couple of months I understood the general flow of >> the >>> system and could quickly dive into different features and gain insight >> into >>> how they functioned. >>> >>> Now a year and a half later I'm an OFBiz committer, member of the PMC >> and my >>> implementation is rolling along quite nicely. All of this with no prior >>> experience in programming or the software industry and entirely in my >> spare >>> time of about 5-10 hours per week. >>> >>> The point I'm trying to make is that the value of contributing to the >>> community shouldn't be underestimated, your contributions are reviewed >> by >>> people with vast amounts of experience using OFBiz which makes their >>> suggestions for improvement invaluable. Your questions are also much >> more >>> likely to be answered (even though in my experience on the lists most >>> questions that make any sort of sense usually get an answer) but before >> long >>> you won't need to be asking too many questions anyway. >>> >>> Regards >>> Scott >>> >>> On 17/08/07, David E Jones <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>> Phil, >>>> >>>> In other words, OFBiz is more than what you were looking for. >> Enterprise >>>> class solutions are very different in nature from small business >> oriented >>>> software. It doesn't sound like you're looking for a Blue Martini or >> ATG >>>> type of thing, even less an ERP-like solution such as SAP or Oracle >>>> Financials, or even something like Great Plains or Navision. Sage >> Software >>>> is interesting because they have different product lines that draw this >>>> line. It sounds like you're looking for something more on a scale >> (perhaps >>>> not scope) of Sage Peachtree rather than Save Accpac or MAS 90. >>>> >>>> There is a HUGE difference in how these different types of software are >>>> "installed" and used. >>>> >>>> Just like it was for you it's not uncommon for people to have a bad >>>> experience with enterprise class software when they first look at it. >> It is >>>> WAY more complex than they want. Medium and larger sized businesses >> automate >>>> things that small businesses often don't even consider. That's the >> nature of >>>> the business side of things, and the software for different types of >>>> businesses has to match the complexity of the businesses it targets. >>>> >>>> It doesn't mean OFBiz is bad, it's just not what you want. And that's >>>> totally fine. Don't worry, I've been discouraging small businesses from >>>> using OFBiz for many years now and early on had long conversations with >> many >>>> of them. >>>> >>>> It's not that OFBiz has no use in the small business world, but most >> small >>>> businesses need something that is meant for businesses like theirs, >>>> something that takes from a pool of many thousands of data elements and >>>> processes and pulls out just the dozens or hundreds they need for their >>>> particular business. >>>> >>>> I'm copying the user mailing list on this just as I did on my last >> reply, >>>> and as you mentioned you were trying to do. A lot of people run into >> this >>>> problem. Some respond by realizing their experience was bad because >> their >>>> expectations were simply not realistic. They adjust their expectations >> and >>>> their understanding in increases and future related experiences are >> better. >>>> Some respond by complaining and attacking and their understanding gets >> even >>>> further away from reality than it was before and future related >> experiences >>>> get worse and worse. >>>> >>>> -David >>>> >>>> >>>> Philip Garrow wrote: >>>>> Hi David: >>>>> >>>>> I hope more clearly stated: >>>>> >>>>> The promise of OfBiz is its use for businesses of all sizes. >>>>> >>>>> I understand that it is not an OOTB solution, and at the same time I >>>> hoped >>>>> that my skills in software development and network administration >> would >>>>> allow me to install and configure and configure OfBiz to have at least >>>> some >>>>> baseline functionality from which I could learn and study further, >> they >>>>> weren't. OfBiz is large, complex and beyond my skills to begin >> working >>>>> with, and being a skilled computer tech, this means they are beyond >> all >>>> but >>>>> the most specifically trained developers. >>>>> >>>>> Next, I sought developers familiar with OfBiz to develop the back-end >>>> for my >>>>> business. Their solutions were twice my budget, and once complete >> could >>>>> only be supported by the small count of developers familiar with >> OfBiz. >>>>> Finally, following your advice I posted a request for help to learn >>>> OfBiz to >>>>> the user list and received no replies, no support for learning OfBiz. >>>>> >>>>> In the end it made better business sense for me to use a well >> supported >>>> OOTB >>>>> solution, which cost me half the amount to install and configure, even >>>> for >>>>> my very complex requirements. >>>>> >>>>> In summation, in my experience there is no circumstance under which I >>>> could >>>>> recommend OfBiz as a useful tool for running a business or as a useful >>>>> course of study for anyone interested in software development for >>>> business. >>>>> Until the learning curve for OfBiz can be softened, the cost for >>>> commercial >>>>> development reduced, and the training for new developers better >>>> supported, I >>>>> feel that OfBiz is just a bunch of Java Macros for a very few software >>>>> geeks. >>>>> >>>>> Despite my initial excitement for using and learning OfBiz, it has >> been >>>> a >>>>> disappointment for me. I hope I was clearer in this letter. >>>>> >>>>> Regards, Phil Garrow >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> ---------- >>>>> FIGHT BACK AGAINST SPAM! >>>>> Download Spam Inspector, the Award Winning Anti-Spam Filter >>>>> http://mail.giantcompany.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: David E Jones [mailto:[hidden email]] >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 7:18 PM >>>>>> To: [hidden email] >>>>>> Cc: [hidden email] >>>>>> Subject: Re: Something I tried to post to the list... >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Phil, >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks for writing. I'm not sure I understood the idea you were >> trying >>>> to >>>>>> communicate, so let me re-phrase it back to you: >>>>>> >>>>>> It sounds like you're saying that OFBiz didn't fit your requirements >>>> well >>>>>> and the complexity and scope seems better suited to businesses larger >>>> than >>>>>> yours, or maybe more accurately, businesses with more complex and >> wider >>>>>> scoped software needs than what your business has. >>>>>> >>>>>> Does that sound about like what you were trying to say? >>>>>> >>>>>> If so I can totally understand that, and I totally agree with you. >>>> OFBiz >>>>>> is really not meant to be a system used OOTB by small businesses. We >>>> have >>>>>> tried to communicate this clearly with text front and center and on >> the >>>>>> OFBiz home page (http://ofbiz.apache.org) under the "Introduction: >> What >>>> is >>>>>> Apache OFBiz?" heading. >>>>>> >>>>>> There is a good chance the text there doesn't clearly represent that. >>>> Do >>>>>> you have any ideas about how we could better communicate this? >>>>>> >>>>>> -David >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Philip Garrow wrote: >>>>>>> Hi David: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I tried to post the following message to the list and it bounced >>>> saying >>>>>> that >>>>>>> it looked like spam to the list filters. I don't know what I am >> doing >>>>>>> wrong; I felt that someone should read this sentiment. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Regards, Phil Garrow >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> RE: Help with Ofbiz >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I too was excited about Ofbiz when I found out about it. I was >>>>>> searching >>>>>>> for a web based solution on which to run my business and I thought I >>>>>> found >>>>>>> it. It turns out that what I found was unuseably complex, although >>>>>>> promising. I then sought a programmer to help me customize Ofbiz as >>>>>> needed. >>>>>>> I, like you, balked at a price tag of nearly $30,000.00 to do the >> work >>>>>>> needed. I then thought that I would put in the time needed to learn >>>>>> Ofbiz >>>>>>> to be able to program the back end of my site... and to allow me to >>>> earn >>>>>>> those high consulting fees. I completed a computer science degree >> ten >>>>>> years >>>>>>> ago and spent a year and a half updating my skills learning Object >>>>>> Oriented >>>>>>> Programming in Java in 2003. Even with this, I was unable to make >> any >>>>>>> progress trying to work through David Jones's tutorial. So I posted >>>> to >>>>>> the >>>>>>> Ofbiz list for help getting starting with Ofbiz and got no >> replies... >>>>>>> nothing... I spent a month reading about Ofbiz, struggling to get >>>>>> started, >>>>>>> and then decided that my time was really better spent running my >>>>>> business >>>>>>> rather than put any more time in to this marginally supported >>>> framework. >>>>>> I >>>>>>> sought and found a commercial solution and for less than a third of >>>> the >>>>>> cost >>>>>>> of customizing Ofbiz, and providing almost everything I needed. It >> is >>>>>> my >>>>>>> opinion that until Ofbiz can do what is needed to soften the steep >>>>>> start-up >>>>>>> curve it will remain just a set of back-end libraries for a small >>>> number >>>>>> of >>>>>>> programmers, not a useful tool for small businesses. Kind of like a >>>>>> phrase >>>>>>> book for those who study Sanskrit, not fulfilling the promise of >>>> making >>>>>>> open-source software accessible to the masses. Good luck with >> Ofbiz. >>>>>> If >>>>>>> you are interested in the solution that I found then check out PDG >>>>>> Commerce. >>>>>>> I don't make a nickel on that suggestion. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Just my $0.02 Phil Garrow >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: EPaulson [mailto:[hidden email]] >>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2007 5:20 AM >>>>>>>> To: [hidden email] >>>>>>>> Subject: Help with Ofbiz >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I am new to Ofbiz as a user. A few months ago I was fortunate >> enough >>>>>>>> to have a friend install and configure Ofbiz for my business. I >>>>>>>> switched my entire >>>>>>>> operation over to the Ofbiz framework out of sheer >>>> optimism/excitement >>>>>> for >>>>>>>> the powerful potention it offers. I have spent countless hours over >>>> the >>>>>>>> past >>>>>>>> few years with toying with different OOTB eCommerce >> solutions...only >>>> to >>>>>>>> find >>>>>>>> that there was always some annoying limitation with each and every >>>> one >>>>>> of >>>>>>>> them. Ofbiz, I thought, was going to be the solution I had been >>>>>> looking >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> the past several years. Finally...I can have EXACTLY what I need to >>>>>>>> operate >>>>>>>> my business the way I envision. Now the dilemma.... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I am not sure if it's the version I am running OR if it's a >>>>>>>> configuration issue, but a healthy chunk of Ofbiz features do not >>>>>>>> function on my site. To just name one...content management. I >> cannot >>>>>>>> add alt tags, policy pages,etc. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Now, my friend is too busy to work on my site regardless of an >> hourly >>>>>>>> fee. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The seemingly few of dev. familiar with OFB are also too busy. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Documentation/training videos are too advanced for me >> unfortunately. >>>>>>>> I am willing to put in the time to learn, but I fear that it would >>>>>>>> take years for me to get where I need to be in order to customize >> OFB >>>>>>>> for my business...AND >>>>>>>> I don't even know where to begin. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It's frustrating to be dependant on others that have the necessary >>>>>>>> knowledge to help you, BUT they are too busy unless I can un-ass >> $30K >>>>>>>> on up to become >>>>>>>> a top-level project myself. Please understand, I have the utmost >>>>>> respect >>>>>>>> for anyone that has the knowledge/background necessary to be able >> to >>>>>>>> navigate through development/implemention of Ofb AND I completely >>>>>>>> understand >>>>>>>> that small business owners like myself cannot expect the same >>>> attention >>>>>> as >>>>>>>> companies with big budgets. It's unreasonable for me to expect the >>>>>> luxury >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> a tailor-made ERP solution without paying what it's worth. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 1) Is there anyone that has the time AND is willing to spend >> one-two >>>>>>>> hours per week consulting me on Ofbiz via >> phone/email/livechat,etc.? >>>>>>>> (walk me through the process of setup/config. and customization >> from >>>>>>>> time to time. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If YES or if you have some positive suggestions than please email >> me >>>>>>>> directly with rates/availability. I would like to delete this post >>>>>>>> soon, so please do not respond with a post. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thank you for taking the time to read this post. >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> No virus found in this outgoing message. >>>>>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >>>>>>> Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.11.19/956 - Release Date: >>>>>> 8/16/2007 >>>>>>> 9:48 AM >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >>>>>> Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.11.19/956 - Release Date: >>>> 8/16/2007 >>>>>> 9:48 AM >>>>>> >>>>> No virus found in this outgoing message. >>>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >>>>> Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.11.19/956 - Release Date: >>>> 8/16/2007 >>>>> 9:48 AM >>>>> >>>>> >> >> > |
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In reply to this post by Scott Gray
Phil,
I took apart the OFBiz framework (Minilang, Entity engine, Service engine, Widgets, etc) within a few weeks. But that said, there is a lot more to OFBiz than the framework (above-mentioned components). Eg: Watch how from/thruDate fields are being used. Watch how audit trails are being created. Watch how EECA/SECAs are used for clean coding constructs. In short, lots of best practices in OFBiz that we can use OOTB. Well, sure, OFBiz doesn't make my breakfast for me, but I can easily make it do so. In order to make OFBiz work for me, I have to know how OFBiz already works, both inside (framework) and out (ERP aspects, other not-quite-framework aspects). Suffice to say that it took me at least 1 or 2 personal projects with OFBiz (own playpen) to get to know OFBiz on a more friendly and useful basis. All that despite the fact that I read OFBiz codes like an open book from day 1. Within 6 months (from day 1 when I met OFBiz), I've had a few paid OFBiz projects already. Plus some consulting engagements as well. :) > When I first found OFBiz the first thing I did was try to begin customizing > straight away with no real understanding of how the system worked. Been there, done that. It was like trying to make a lion play fetch with me. Note that over time you will likely find your efforts moving towards "finding which parts of OFBiz to reuse/adapt", and moving away from "coding from scratch". Nowadays, my "coding work" has been just that, hunting for parts in OFBiz to reuse or adapt or learn from. > The point I'm trying to make is that the value of contributing to the > community shouldn't be underestimated, your contributions are reviewed by > people with vast amounts of experience using OFBiz which makes their > suggestions for improvement invaluable. I'm still trying to work on that. Been so busy. I certainly do have some burning questions and doubts about some of my own enhancements that I've been meaning to throw into the community for review. > before long you won't need to be asking too many questions anyway. Hmm. But from my experience, colleagues who ask the most questions learn fastest. :) Maybe I'm beginning to learn slower now. Sorry, just kidding. Experts (or slow ones like me) do ask less questions over time. One final thing I would like to say here. OFBiz has given me the power to advertise thus: "Pay us the same you pay other folks, but watch us do the work in one tenth the time". Jonathon Scott Gray wrote: > Hi Phil > > I don't have a lot to add to this except that for myself OFBiz is not so > difficult to learn if approached from the correct perspective. When I first > found OFBiz the first thing I did was try to begin customizing straight away > with no real understanding of how the system worked. I quickly realized I > was getting nowhere but instead of giving up I just put my implementation on > hold and joined the community instead. > > I read every email that came through including the commit logs and began > looking for JIRA issues that I thought I could handle or at least > investigate. Within a couple of months I understood the general flow of the > system and could quickly dive into different features and gain insight into > how they functioned. > > Now a year and a half later I'm an OFBiz committer, member of the PMC and my > implementation is rolling along quite nicely. All of this with no prior > experience in programming or the software industry and entirely in my spare > time of about 5-10 hours per week. > > The point I'm trying to make is that the value of contributing to the > community shouldn't be underestimated, your contributions are reviewed by > people with vast amounts of experience using OFBiz which makes their > suggestions for improvement invaluable. Your questions are also much more > likely to be answered (even though in my experience on the lists most > questions that make any sort of sense usually get an answer) but before long > you won't need to be asking too many questions anyway. > > Regards > Scott > > On 17/08/07, David E Jones <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >> Phil, >> >> In other words, OFBiz is more than what you were looking for. Enterprise >> class solutions are very different in nature from small business oriented >> software. It doesn't sound like you're looking for a Blue Martini or ATG >> type of thing, even less an ERP-like solution such as SAP or Oracle >> Financials, or even something like Great Plains or Navision. Sage Software >> is interesting because they have different product lines that draw this >> line. It sounds like you're looking for something more on a scale (perhaps >> not scope) of Sage Peachtree rather than Save Accpac or MAS 90. >> >> There is a HUGE difference in how these different types of software are >> "installed" and used. >> >> Just like it was for you it's not uncommon for people to have a bad >> experience with enterprise class software when they first look at it. It is >> WAY more complex than they want. Medium and larger sized businesses automate >> things that small businesses often don't even consider. That's the nature of >> the business side of things, and the software for different types of >> businesses has to match the complexity of the businesses it targets. >> >> It doesn't mean OFBiz is bad, it's just not what you want. And that's >> totally fine. Don't worry, I've been discouraging small businesses from >> using OFBiz for many years now and early on had long conversations with many >> of them. >> >> It's not that OFBiz has no use in the small business world, but most small >> businesses need something that is meant for businesses like theirs, >> something that takes from a pool of many thousands of data elements and >> processes and pulls out just the dozens or hundreds they need for their >> particular business. >> >> I'm copying the user mailing list on this just as I did on my last reply, >> and as you mentioned you were trying to do. A lot of people run into this >> problem. Some respond by realizing their experience was bad because their >> expectations were simply not realistic. They adjust their expectations and >> their understanding in increases and future related experiences are better. >> Some respond by complaining and attacking and their understanding gets even >> further away from reality than it was before and future related experiences >> get worse and worse. >> >> -David >> >> >> Philip Garrow wrote: >>> Hi David: >>> >>> I hope more clearly stated: >>> >>> The promise of OfBiz is its use for businesses of all sizes. >>> >>> I understand that it is not an OOTB solution, and at the same time I >> hoped >>> that my skills in software development and network administration would >>> allow me to install and configure and configure OfBiz to have at least >> some >>> baseline functionality from which I could learn and study further, they >>> weren't. OfBiz is large, complex and beyond my skills to begin working >>> with, and being a skilled computer tech, this means they are beyond all >> but >>> the most specifically trained developers. >>> >>> Next, I sought developers familiar with OfBiz to develop the back-end >> for my >>> business. Their solutions were twice my budget, and once complete could >>> only be supported by the small count of developers familiar with OfBiz. >>> >>> Finally, following your advice I posted a request for help to learn >> OfBiz to >>> the user list and received no replies, no support for learning OfBiz. >>> >>> In the end it made better business sense for me to use a well supported >> OOTB >>> solution, which cost me half the amount to install and configure, even >> for >>> my very complex requirements. >>> >>> In summation, in my experience there is no circumstance under which I >> could >>> recommend OfBiz as a useful tool for running a business or as a useful >>> course of study for anyone interested in software development for >> business. >>> Until the learning curve for OfBiz can be softened, the cost for >> commercial >>> development reduced, and the training for new developers better >> supported, I >>> feel that OfBiz is just a bunch of Java Macros for a very few software >>> geeks. >>> >>> Despite my initial excitement for using and learning OfBiz, it has been >> a >>> disappointment for me. I hope I was clearer in this letter. >>> >>> Regards, Phil Garrow >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> ---------- >>> FIGHT BACK AGAINST SPAM! >>> Download Spam Inspector, the Award Winning Anti-Spam Filter >>> http://mail.giantcompany.com >>> >>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: David E Jones [mailto:[hidden email]] >>>> Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 7:18 PM >>>> To: [hidden email] >>>> Cc: [hidden email] >>>> Subject: Re: Something I tried to post to the list... >>>> >>>> >>>> Phil, >>>> >>>> Thanks for writing. I'm not sure I understood the idea you were trying >> to >>>> communicate, so let me re-phrase it back to you: >>>> >>>> It sounds like you're saying that OFBiz didn't fit your requirements >> well >>>> and the complexity and scope seems better suited to businesses larger >> than >>>> yours, or maybe more accurately, businesses with more complex and wider >>>> scoped software needs than what your business has. >>>> >>>> Does that sound about like what you were trying to say? >>>> >>>> If so I can totally understand that, and I totally agree with you. >> OFBiz >>>> is really not meant to be a system used OOTB by small businesses. We >> have >>>> tried to communicate this clearly with text front and center and on the >>>> OFBiz home page (http://ofbiz.apache.org) under the "Introduction: What >> is >>>> Apache OFBiz?" heading. >>>> >>>> There is a good chance the text there doesn't clearly represent that. >> Do >>>> you have any ideas about how we could better communicate this? >>>> >>>> -David >>>> >>>> >>>> Philip Garrow wrote: >>>>> Hi David: >>>>> >>>>> I tried to post the following message to the list and it bounced >> saying >>>> that >>>>> it looked like spam to the list filters. I don't know what I am doing >>>>> wrong; I felt that someone should read this sentiment. >>>>> >>>>> Regards, Phil Garrow >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> RE: Help with Ofbiz >>>>> >>>>> Hi: >>>>> >>>>> I too was excited about Ofbiz when I found out about it. I was >>>> searching >>>>> for a web based solution on which to run my business and I thought I >>>> found >>>>> it. It turns out that what I found was unuseably complex, although >>>>> promising. I then sought a programmer to help me customize Ofbiz as >>>> needed. >>>>> I, like you, balked at a price tag of nearly $30,000.00 to do the work >>>>> needed. I then thought that I would put in the time needed to learn >>>> Ofbiz >>>>> to be able to program the back end of my site... and to allow me to >> earn >>>>> those high consulting fees. I completed a computer science degree ten >>>> years >>>>> ago and spent a year and a half updating my skills learning Object >>>> Oriented >>>>> Programming in Java in 2003. Even with this, I was unable to make any >>>>> progress trying to work through David Jones's tutorial. So I posted >> to >>>> the >>>>> Ofbiz list for help getting starting with Ofbiz and got no replies... >>>>> nothing... I spent a month reading about Ofbiz, struggling to get >>>> started, >>>>> and then decided that my time was really better spent running my >>>> business >>>>> rather than put any more time in to this marginally supported >> framework. >>>> I >>>>> sought and found a commercial solution and for less than a third of >> the >>>> cost >>>>> of customizing Ofbiz, and providing almost everything I needed. It is >>>> my >>>>> opinion that until Ofbiz can do what is needed to soften the steep >>>> start-up >>>>> curve it will remain just a set of back-end libraries for a small >> number >>>> of >>>>> programmers, not a useful tool for small businesses. Kind of like a >>>> phrase >>>>> book for those who study Sanskrit, not fulfilling the promise of >> making >>>>> open-source software accessible to the masses. Good luck with Ofbiz. >>>> If >>>>> you are interested in the solution that I found then check out PDG >>>> Commerce. >>>>> I don't make a nickel on that suggestion. >>>>> >>>>> Just my $0.02 Phil Garrow >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: EPaulson [mailto:[hidden email]] >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2007 5:20 AM >>>>>> To: [hidden email] >>>>>> Subject: Help with Ofbiz >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I am new to Ofbiz as a user. A few months ago I was fortunate enough >>>>>> to have a friend install and configure Ofbiz for my business. I >>>>>> switched my entire >>>>>> operation over to the Ofbiz framework out of sheer >> optimism/excitement >>>> for >>>>>> the powerful potention it offers. I have spent countless hours over >> the >>>>>> past >>>>>> few years with toying with different OOTB eCommerce solutions...only >> to >>>>>> find >>>>>> that there was always some annoying limitation with each and every >> one >>>> of >>>>>> them. Ofbiz, I thought, was going to be the solution I had been >>>> looking >>>>>> for >>>>>> the past several years. Finally...I can have EXACTLY what I need to >>>>>> operate >>>>>> my business the way I envision. Now the dilemma.... >>>>>> >>>>>> I am not sure if it's the version I am running OR if it's a >>>>>> configuration issue, but a healthy chunk of Ofbiz features do not >>>>>> function on my site. To just name one...content management. I cannot >>>>>> add alt tags, policy pages,etc. >>>>>> >>>>>> Now, my friend is too busy to work on my site regardless of an hourly >>>>>> fee. >>>>>> >>>>>> The seemingly few of dev. familiar with OFB are also too busy. >>>>>> >>>>>> Documentation/training videos are too advanced for me unfortunately. >>>>>> I am willing to put in the time to learn, but I fear that it would >>>>>> take years for me to get where I need to be in order to customize OFB >>>>>> for my business...AND >>>>>> I don't even know where to begin. >>>>>> >>>>>> It's frustrating to be dependant on others that have the necessary >>>>>> knowledge to help you, BUT they are too busy unless I can un-ass $30K >>>>>> on up to become >>>>>> a top-level project myself. Please understand, I have the utmost >>>> respect >>>>>> for anyone that has the knowledge/background necessary to be able to >>>>>> navigate through development/implemention of Ofb AND I completely >>>>>> understand >>>>>> that small business owners like myself cannot expect the same >> attention >>>> as >>>>>> companies with big budgets. It's unreasonable for me to expect the >>>> luxury >>>>>> of >>>>>> a tailor-made ERP solution without paying what it's worth. >>>>>> >>>>>> 1) Is there anyone that has the time AND is willing to spend one-two >>>>>> hours per week consulting me on Ofbiz via phone/email/livechat,etc.? >>>>>> (walk me through the process of setup/config. and customization from >>>>>> time to time. >>>>>> >>>>>> If YES or if you have some positive suggestions than please email me >>>>>> directly with rates/availability. I would like to delete this post >>>>>> soon, so please do not respond with a post. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you for taking the time to read this post. >>>>>> -- >>>>> No virus found in this outgoing message. >>>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >>>>> Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.11.19/956 - Release Date: >>>> 8/16/2007 >>>>> 9:48 AM >>>>> >>>>> >>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >>>> Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.11.19/956 - Release Date: >> 8/16/2007 >>>> 9:48 AM >>>> >>> No virus found in this outgoing message. >>> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >>> Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.11.19/956 - Release Date: >> 8/16/2007 >>> 9:48 AM >>> >>> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.0/957 - Release Date: 8/16/2007 1:46 PM |
UK OFBiz Communities site was down
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Re: Something I tried to post to the list...
Administrator
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In reply to this post by David E Jones
Hi David,
Thanks for the expalnation. De : "David E Jones" <[hidden email]> > > Phil, > > Thanks for writing. I'm not sure I understood the idea you were trying to communicate, so let me re-phrase it back to you: > > It sounds like you're saying that OFBiz didn't fit your requirements well and the complexity and scope seems better suited to businesses larger than yours, or maybe more accurately, businesses with more complex and wider scoped software needs than what your business has. > > Does that sound about like what you were trying to say? > > If so I can totally understand that, and I totally agree with you. OFBiz is really not meant to be a system used OOTB by small businesses. We have tried to communicate this clearly with text front and center and on the OFBiz home page (http://ofbiz.apache.org) under the "Introduction: What is Apache OFBiz?" heading. > > There is a good chance the text there doesn't clearly represent that. Do you have any ideas about how we could better communicate this? Maybe, to better explain, your second message (attached) can be added under the "Introduction: What is Apache OFBiz?" heading ? Jacques > > -David > > > Philip Garrow wrote: > > Hi David: > > > > I tried to post the following message to the list and it bounced saying that > > it looked like spam to the list filters. I don't know what I am doing > > wrong; I felt that someone should read this sentiment. > > > > Regards, Phil Garrow > > > > > > RE: Help with Ofbiz > > > > Hi: > > > > I too was excited about Ofbiz when I found out about it. I was searching > > for a web based solution on which to run my business and I thought I found > > it. It turns out that what I found was unuseably complex, although > > promising. I then sought a programmer to help me customize Ofbiz as needed. > > I, like you, balked at a price tag of nearly $30,000.00 to do the work > > needed. I then thought that I would put in the time needed to learn Ofbiz > > to be able to program the back end of my site... and to allow me to earn > > those high consulting fees. I completed a computer science degree ten years > > ago and spent a year and a half updating my skills learning Object Oriented > > Programming in Java in 2003. Even with this, I was unable to make any > > progress trying to work through David Jones's tutorial. So I posted to the > > Ofbiz list for help getting starting with Ofbiz and got no replies... > > nothing... I spent a month reading about Ofbiz, struggling to get started, > > and then decided that my time was really better spent running my business > > rather than put any more time in to this marginally supported framework. I > > sought and found a commercial solution and for less than a third of the cost > > of customizing Ofbiz, and providing almost everything I needed. It is my > > opinion that until Ofbiz can do what is needed to soften the steep start-up > > curve it will remain just a set of back-end libraries for a small number of > > programmers, not a useful tool for small businesses. Kind of like a phrase > > book for those who study Sanskrit, not fulfilling the promise of making > > open-source software accessible to the masses. Good luck with Ofbiz. If > > you are interested in the solution that I found then check out PDG Commerce. > > I don't make a nickel on that suggestion. > > > > Just my $0.02 Phil Garrow > > > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: EPaulson [mailto:[hidden email]] > >> Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2007 5:20 AM > >> To: [hidden email] > >> Subject: Help with Ofbiz > >> > >> > >> I am new to Ofbiz as a user. A few months ago I was fortunate enough > >> to have a friend install and configure Ofbiz for my business. I > >> switched my entire > >> operation over to the Ofbiz framework out of sheer optimism/excitement for > >> the powerful potention it offers. I have spent countless hours over the > >> past > >> few years with toying with different OOTB eCommerce solutions...only to > >> find > >> that there was always some annoying limitation with each and every one of > >> them. Ofbiz, I thought, was going to be the solution I had been looking > >> for > >> the past several years. Finally...I can have EXACTLY what I need to > >> operate > >> my business the way I envision. Now the dilemma.... > >> > >> I am not sure if it's the version I am running OR if it's a > >> configuration issue, but a healthy chunk of Ofbiz features do not > >> function on my site. To just name one...content management. I cannot > >> add alt tags, policy pages,etc. > >> > >> Now, my friend is too busy to work on my site regardless of an hourly > >> fee. > >> > >> The seemingly few of dev. familiar with OFB are also too busy. > >> > >> Documentation/training videos are too advanced for me unfortunately. > >> I am willing to put in the time to learn, but I fear that it would > >> take years for me to get where I need to be in order to customize OFB > >> for my business...AND > >> I don't even know where to begin. > >> > >> It's frustrating to be dependant on others that have the necessary > >> knowledge to help you, BUT they are too busy unless I can un-ass $30K > >> on up to become > >> a top-level project myself. Please understand, I have the utmost respect > >> for anyone that has the knowledge/background necessary to be able to > >> navigate through development/implemention of Ofb AND I completely > >> understand > >> that small business owners like myself cannot expect the same attention as > >> companies with big budgets. It's unreasonable for me to expect the luxury > >> of > >> a tailor-made ERP solution without paying what it's worth. > >> > >> 1) Is there anyone that has the time AND is willing to spend one-two > >> hours per week consulting me on Ofbiz via phone/email/livechat,etc.? > >> (walk me through the process of setup/config. and customization from > >> time to time. > >> > >> If YES or if you have some positive suggestions than please email me > >> directly with rates/availability. I would like to delete this post > >> soon, so please do not respond with a post. > >> > >> Thank you for taking the time to read this post. > >> -- > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.11.19/956 - Release Date: 8/16/2007 > > 9:48 AM > > > > Phil, In other words, OFBiz is more than what you were looking for. Enterprise class solutions are very different in nature from small business oriented software. It doesn't sound like you're looking for a Blue Martini or ATG type of thing, even less an ERP-like solution such as SAP or Oracle Financials, or even something like Great Plains or Navision. Sage Software is interesting because they have different product lines that draw this line. It sounds like you're looking for something more on a scale (perhaps not scope) of Sage Peachtree rather than Save Accpac or MAS 90. There is a HUGE difference in how these different types of software are "installed" and used. Just like it was for you it's not uncommon for people to have a bad experience with enterprise class software when they first look at it. It is WAY more complex than they want. Medium and larger sized businesses automate things that small businesses often don't even consider. That's the nature of the business side of things, and the software for different types of businesses has to match the complexity of the businesses it targets. It doesn't mean OFBiz is bad, it's just not what you want. And that's totally fine. Don't worry, I've been discouraging small businesses from using OFBiz for many years now and early on had long conversations with many of them. It's not that OFBiz has no use in the small business world, but most small businesses need something that is meant for businesses like theirs, something that takes from a pool of many thousands of data elements and processes and pulls out just the dozens or hundreds they need for their particular business. I'm copying the user mailing list on this just as I did on my last reply, and as you mentioned you were trying to do. A lot of people run into this problem. Some respond by realizing their experience was bad because their expectations were simply not realistic. They adjust their expectations and their understanding in increases and future related experiences are better. Some respond by complaining and attacking and their understanding gets even further away from reality than it was before and future related experiences get worse and worse. -David Philip Garrow wrote: > Hi David: > > I hope more clearly stated: > > The promise of OfBiz is its use for businesses of all sizes. > > I understand that it is not an OOTB solution, and at the same time I hoped > that my skills in software development and network administration would > allow me to install and configure and configure OfBiz to have at least some > baseline functionality from which I could learn and study further, they > weren’t. OfBiz is large, complex and beyond my skills to begin working > with, and being a skilled computer tech, this means they are beyond all but > the most specifically trained developers. > > Next, I sought developers familiar with OfBiz to develop the back-end for my > business. Their solutions were twice my budget, and once complete could > only be supported by the small count of developers familiar with OfBiz. > > Finally, following your advice I posted a request for help to learn OfBiz to > the user list and received no replies, no support for learning OfBiz. > > In the end it made better business sense for me to use a well supported OOTB > solution, which cost me half the amount to install and configure, even for > my very complex requirements. > > In summation, in my experience there is no circumstance under which I could > recommend OfBiz as a useful tool for running a business or as a useful > course of study for anyone interested in software development for business. > > Until the learning curve for OfBiz can be softened, the cost for commercial > development reduced, and the training for new developers better supported, I > feel that OfBiz is just a bunch of Java Macros for a very few software > geeks. > > Despite my initial excitement for using and learning OfBiz, it has been a > disappointment for me. I hope I was clearer in this letter. > > Regards, Phil Garrow > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > FIGHT BACK AGAINST SPAM! > Download Spam Inspector, the Award Winning Anti-Spam Filter > http://mail.giantcompany.com > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: David E Jones [mailto:[hidden email]] >> Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 7:18 PM >> To: [hidden email] >> Cc: [hidden email] >> Subject: Re: Something I tried to post to the list... >> >> >> Phil, >> >> Thanks for writing. I'm not sure I understood the idea you were trying to >> communicate, so let me re-phrase it back to you: >> >> It sounds like you're saying that OFBiz didn't fit your requirements well >> and the complexity and scope seems better suited to businesses larger than >> yours, or maybe more accurately, businesses with more complex and wider >> scoped software needs than what your business has. >> >> Does that sound about like what you were trying to say? >> >> If so I can totally understand that, and I totally agree with you. OFBiz >> is really not meant to be a system used OOTB by small businesses. We have >> tried to communicate this clearly with text front and center and on the >> OFBiz home page (http://ofbiz.apache.org) under the "Introduction: What is >> Apache OFBiz?" heading. >> >> There is a good chance the text there doesn't clearly represent that. Do >> you have any ideas about how we could better communicate this? >> >> -David >> >> >> Philip Garrow wrote: >>> Hi David: >>> >>> I tried to post the following message to the list and it bounced saying >> that >>> it looked like spam to the list filters. I don't know what I am doing >>> wrong; I felt that someone should read this sentiment. >>> >>> Regards, Phil Garrow >>> >>> >>> RE: Help with Ofbiz >>> >>> Hi: >>> >>> I too was excited about Ofbiz when I found out about it. I was >> searching >>> for a web based solution on which to run my business and I thought I >> found >>> it. It turns out that what I found was unuseably complex, although >>> promising. I then sought a programmer to help me customize Ofbiz as >> needed. >>> I, like you, balked at a price tag of nearly $30,000.00 to do the work >>> needed. I then thought that I would put in the time needed to learn >> Ofbiz >>> to be able to program the back end of my site... and to allow me to earn >>> those high consulting fees. I completed a computer science degree ten >> years >>> ago and spent a year and a half updating my skills learning Object >> Oriented >>> Programming in Java in 2003. Even with this, I was unable to make any >>> progress trying to work through David Jones's tutorial. So I posted to >> the >>> Ofbiz list for help getting starting with Ofbiz and got no replies... >>> nothing... I spent a month reading about Ofbiz, struggling to get >> started, >>> and then decided that my time was really better spent running my >> business >>> rather than put any more time in to this marginally supported framework. >> I >>> sought and found a commercial solution and for less than a third of the >> cost >>> of customizing Ofbiz, and providing almost everything I needed. It is >> my >>> opinion that until Ofbiz can do what is needed to soften the steep >> start-up >>> curve it will remain just a set of back-end libraries for a small number >> of >>> programmers, not a useful tool for small businesses. Kind of like a >> phrase >>> book for those who study Sanskrit, not fulfilling the promise of making >>> open-source software accessible to the masses. Good luck with Ofbiz. >> If >>> you are interested in the solution that I found then check out PDG >> Commerce. >>> I don't make a nickel on that suggestion. >>> >>> Just my $0.02 Phil Garrow >>> >>> >>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: EPaulson [mailto:[hidden email]] >>>> Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2007 5:20 AM >>>> To: [hidden email] >>>> Subject: Help with Ofbiz >>>> >>>> >>>> I am new to Ofbiz as a user. A few months ago I was fortunate enough >>>> to have a friend install and configure Ofbiz for my business. I >>>> switched my entire >>>> operation over to the Ofbiz framework out of sheer optimism/excitement >> for >>>> the powerful potention it offers. I have spent countless hours over the >>>> past >>>> few years with toying with different OOTB eCommerce solutions...only to >>>> find >>>> that there was always some annoying limitation with each and every one >> of >>>> them. Ofbiz, I thought, was going to be the solution I had been >> looking >>>> for >>>> the past several years. Finally...I can have EXACTLY what I need to >>>> operate >>>> my business the way I envision. Now the dilemma.... >>>> >>>> I am not sure if it's the version I am running OR if it's a >>>> configuration issue, but a healthy chunk of Ofbiz features do not >>>> function on my site. To just name one...content management. I cannot >>>> add alt tags, policy pages,etc. >>>> >>>> Now, my friend is too busy to work on my site regardless of an hourly >>>> fee. >>>> >>>> The seemingly few of dev. familiar with OFB are also too busy. >>>> >>>> Documentation/training videos are too advanced for me unfortunately. >>>> I am willing to put in the time to learn, but I fear that it would >>>> take years for me to get where I need to be in order to customize OFB >>>> for my business...AND >>>> I don't even know where to begin. >>>> >>>> It's frustrating to be dependant on others that have the necessary >>>> knowledge to help you, BUT they are too busy unless I can un-ass $30K >>>> on up to become >>>> a top-level project myself. Please understand, I have the utmost >> respect >>>> for anyone that has the knowledge/background necessary to be able to >>>> navigate through development/implemention of Ofb AND I completely >>>> understand >>>> that small business owners like myself cannot expect the same attention >> as >>>> companies with big budgets. It's unreasonable for me to expect the >> luxury >>>> of >>>> a tailor-made ERP solution without paying what it's worth. >>>> >>>> 1) Is there anyone that has the time AND is willing to spend one-two >>>> hours per week consulting me on Ofbiz via phone/email/livechat,etc.? >>>> (walk me through the process of setup/config. and customization from >>>> time to time. >>>> >>>> If YES or if you have some positive suggestions than please email me >>>> directly with rates/availability. I would like to delete this post >>>> soon, so please do not respond with a post. >>>> >>>> Thank you for taking the time to read this post. >>>> -- >>> No virus found in this outgoing message. >>> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >>> Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.11.19/956 - Release Date: >> 8/16/2007 >>> 9:48 AM >>> >>> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >> Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.11.19/956 - Release Date: 8/16/2007 >> 9:48 AM >> > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.11.19/956 - Release Date: 8/16/2007 > 9:48 AM > > |
mysql, inconsistence table names
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Hi,
I noticed some of the table names are all in upper cases while others are all in lower cases. Is there anyway to make it all upper cases or lower cases? Regards, Mathius Allo --------------------------------- Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games. |
Re: Something I tried to post to the list...
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In reply to this post by David E Jones
Hi Phil,
As I know, OFBiz is a service oriented platform, which means it's generally in a direct sale business model or by solution providers. Here is a graph which can explain why you feel unhappy with OFBiz: Low Customer Value High |<------------------------------------------>| | | | Volumn Sale VAR&SP direct sale | | | |<------------------------------------------>| ERP Vendors OFBiz is here As you see, obviously you belong to the low end customers in ERP market, so select a product you can get from a software distributor/reseller is a wise choice. This is a free lesson special to you. Hope you can use this knowledge to position your own business as well. Just my 2 cents. Shi Jinghai/Beijing Langhua Ltd. 在 2007-08-16四的 17:18 -0600，David E Jones写道： > Phil, > > Thanks for writing. I'm not sure I understood the idea you were trying to communicate, so let me re-phrase it back to you: > > It sounds like you're saying that OFBiz didn't fit your requirements well and the complexity and scope seems better suited to businesses larger than yours, or maybe more accurately, businesses with more complex and wider scoped software needs than what your business has. > > Does that sound about like what you were trying to say? > > If so I can totally understand that, and I totally agree with you. OFBiz is really not meant to be a system used OOTB by small businesses. We have tried to communicate this clearly with text front and center and on the OFBiz home page (http://ofbiz.apache.org) under the "Introduction: What is Apache OFBiz?" heading. > > There is a good chance the text there doesn't clearly represent that. Do you have any ideas about how we could better communicate this? > > -David > > > Philip Garrow wrote: > > Hi David: > > > > I tried to post the following message to the list and it bounced saying that > > it looked like spam to the list filters. I don't know what I am doing > > wrong; I felt that someone should read this sentiment. > > > > Regards, Phil Garrow > > > > > > RE: Help with Ofbiz > > > > Hi: > > > > I too was excited about Ofbiz when I found out about it. I was searching > > for a web based solution on which to run my business and I thought I found > > it. It turns out that what I found was unuseably complex, although > > promising. I then sought a programmer to help me customize Ofbiz as needed. > > I, like you, balked at a price tag of nearly $30,000.00 to do the work > > needed. I then thought that I would put in the time needed to learn Ofbiz > > to be able to program the back end of my site... and to allow me to earn > > those high consulting fees. I completed a computer science degree ten years > > ago and spent a year and a half updating my skills learning Object Oriented > > Programming in Java in 2003. Even with this, I was unable to make any > > progress trying to work through David Jones's tutorial. So I posted to the > > Ofbiz list for help getting starting with Ofbiz and got no replies... > > nothing... I spent a month reading about Ofbiz, struggling to get started, > > and then decided that my time was really better spent running my business > > rather than put any more time in to this marginally supported framework. I > > sought and found a commercial solution and for less than a third of the cost > > of customizing Ofbiz, and providing almost everything I needed. It is my > > opinion that until Ofbiz can do what is needed to soften the steep start-up > > curve it will remain just a set of back-end libraries for a small number of > > programmers, not a useful tool for small businesses. Kind of like a phrase > > book for those who study Sanskrit, not fulfilling the promise of making > > open-source software accessible to the masses. Good luck with Ofbiz. If > > you are interested in the solution that I found then check out PDG Commerce. > > I don't make a nickel on that suggestion. > > > > Just my $0.02 Phil Garrow > > > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: EPaulson [mailto:[hidden email]] > >> Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2007 5:20 AM > >> To: [hidden email] > >> Subject: Help with Ofbiz > >> > >> > >> I am new to Ofbiz as a user. A few months ago I was fortunate enough > >> to have a friend install and configure Ofbiz for my business. I > >> switched my entire > >> operation over to the Ofbiz framework out of sheer optimism/excitement for > >> the powerful potention it offers. I have spent countless hours over the > >> past > >> few years with toying with different OOTB eCommerce solutions...only to > >> find > >> that there was always some annoying limitation with each and every one of > >> them. Ofbiz, I thought, was going to be the solution I had been looking > >> for > >> the past several years. Finally...I can have EXACTLY what I need to > >> operate > >> my business the way I envision. Now the dilemma.... > >> > >> I am not sure if it's the version I am running OR if it's a > >> configuration issue, but a healthy chunk of Ofbiz features do not > >> function on my site. To just name one...content management. I cannot > >> add alt tags, policy pages,etc. > >> > >> Now, my friend is too busy to work on my site regardless of an hourly > >> fee. > >> > >> The seemingly few of dev. familiar with OFB are also too busy. > >> > >> Documentation/training videos are too advanced for me unfortunately. > >> I am willing to put in the time to learn, but I fear that it would > >> take years for me to get where I need to be in order to customize OFB > >> for my business...AND > >> I don't even know where to begin. > >> > >> It's frustrating to be dependant on others that have the necessary > >> knowledge to help you, BUT they are too busy unless I can un-ass $30K > >> on up to become > >> a top-level project myself. Please understand, I have the utmost respect > >> for anyone that has the knowledge/background necessary to be able to > >> navigate through development/implemention of Ofb AND I completely > >> understand > >> that small business owners like myself cannot expect the same attention as > >> companies with big budgets. It's unreasonable for me to expect the luxury > >> of > >> a tailor-made ERP solution without paying what it's worth. > >> > >> 1) Is there anyone that has the time AND is willing to spend one-two > >> hours per week consulting me on Ofbiz via phone/email/livechat,etc.? > >> (walk me through the process of setup/config. and customization from > >> time to time. > >> > >> If YES or if you have some positive suggestions than please email me > >> directly with rates/availability. I would like to delete this post > >> soon, so please do not respond with a post. > >> > >> Thank you for taking the time to read this post. > >> -- > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.11.19/956 - Release Date: 8/16/2007 > > 9:48 AM > > > > |
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