Reply-to address missing for dev and user mailing list

[adityasharma]

Hi team,
It seems reply-to address configuration is missing for some emails from dev
and user mailing list (for reference see *Removing support for global
"ofbiz-containers.xml"*) while I can still find it on the notifications
mailing list.
Anyone having any idea about it?

Thanks and regards,
Aditya Sharma

[Jacques Le Roux]

Hi Aditya,

I don't clearly understand the problem. I can see the thread <<Removing support for global "ofbiz-containers.xml">> on both

Markmail https://s.apache.org/H751 (needs Flash)

and

lists.apache.org: https://s.apache.org/X5If

I can also respond to either dev ML, Mathieu or both from the initial Mathieu's message (only Michael did so far)

Jacques

Le 13/06/2019 à 07:22, Aditya Sharma a écrit :

> Hi team,
> It seems reply-to address configuration is missing for some emails from dev
> and user mailing list (for reference see *Removing support for global
> "ofbiz-containers.xml"*) while I can still find it on the notifications
> mailing list.
> Anyone having any idea about it?
>
> Thanks and regards,
> Aditya Sharma
>

[adityasharma]

Hi Jacques,

We can configure reply-to email address for the mailing list which means
when the user clicks the reply button, the specified email address will be
automatically in the *To* field.

When you click on the reply button for notifications or commits emails it
automatically adds [hidden email] as *To *field but in case of dev or
user list, the sender's email address is added. If I am replying to an
email sent by you, only your email will be added to *To* field. Thus more
chances of skipping the mailing list.
You can see reply-to email address using the show details. I have attached
some screenshots.

 Screenshot from 2019-06-13 14-41-14.png
<https://drive.google.com/a/hotwaxsystems.com/file/d/13oRTEZr3825jYMXK8mx4F_He9BhzHy4I/view?usp=drive_web>
 Screenshot from 2019-06-13 14-44-23.png
<https://drive.google.com/a/hotwaxsystems.com/file/d/15OEB-nBQIVkb6RN4E_06da3Pdw1az5fN/view?usp=drive_web>

Earlier it was working fine(It works right see email titled Re:
[DISCUSSION] Having to use parent tickets to group tickets).
 Screenshot from 2019-06-13 15-03-37.png
<https://drive.google.com/a/hotwaxsystems.com/file/d/1AuKUmI3f2ewTlccHUqTmh5mSvH1vx922/view?usp=drive_web>

We will now have to use reply-all every time.


On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 2:30 PM Jacques Le Roux <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Aditya,
>
> I don't clearly understand the problem. I can see the thread <<Removing
> support for global "ofbiz-containers.xml">> on both
>
> Markmail https://s.apache.org/H751 (needs Flash)
>
> and
>
> lists.apache.org: https://s.apache.org/X5If
>
> I can also respond to either dev ML, Mathieu or both from the initial
> Mathieu's message (only Michael did so far)
>
> Jacques
>
> Le 13/06/2019 à 07:22, Aditya Sharma a écrit :
> > Hi team,
> > It seems reply-to address configuration is missing for some emails from
> dev
> > and user mailing list (for reference see *Removing support for global
> > "ofbiz-containers.xml"*) while I can still find it on the notifications
> > mailing list.
> > Anyone having any idea about it?
> >
> > Thanks and regards,
> > Aditya Sharma
> >
>

[Jacques Le Roux]

Aditya,

1st please when you answer to dev ML don't add my email to this answer. I continuously and indefectibly follows this ML (as we are required as
committer). I have an email filter to redirect all dev ML emails to a dev ML folder in my email clients (Thunderbird). Actually I have 263 such
filters (OK I filter a lot :D). It's not much about you but I have seen a such pattern appearing these last times. So please guys, we don't need a copy ;)

OK I have not this problem because I tweaked Thunderbird to have only 2 buttons:

  * "Reply to list" (it exists OOTB and works only for MLs) and
  * "Reply to All" OOTB also I then remove the ones I don't want to send to.

This said I don't use Gmail (seen in your screenshots) and I'm not confident in any Google tools at all, I only use them when I'm forced to, paid work
generally. So I understand now this burst of copies I speak about above (striked out, but not in plain text). And I guess I had to make the changes I
speak above when this started to happen. I have no clues yet. I'll 1st look to see if we can resolved that by ourselves, I guess we will need Infra help.

I'll keep you informed

Jacques

Le 13/06/2019 à 11:41, Aditya Sharma a écrit :

> Hi Jacques,
>
> We can configure reply-to email address for the mailing list which means
> when the user clicks the reply button, the specified email address will be
> automatically in the *To* field.
>
> When you click on the reply button for notifications or commits emails it
> automatically adds [hidden email] as *To *field but in case of dev or
> user list, the sender's email address is added. If I am replying to an
> email sent by you, only your email will be added to *To* field. Thus more
> chances of skipping the mailing list.
> You can see reply-to email address using the show details. I have attached
> some screenshots.
>
>   Screenshot from 2019-06-13 14-41-14.png
> <https://drive.google.com/a/hotwaxsystems.com/file/d/13oRTEZr3825jYMXK8mx4F_He9BhzHy4I/view?usp=drive_web>
>   Screenshot from 2019-06-13 14-44-23.png
> <https://drive.google.com/a/hotwaxsystems.com/file/d/15OEB-nBQIVkb6RN4E_06da3Pdw1az5fN/view?usp=drive_web>
>
> Earlier it was working fine(It works right see email titled Re:
> [DISCUSSION] Having to use parent tickets to group tickets).
>   Screenshot from 2019-06-13 15-03-37.png
> <https://drive.google.com/a/hotwaxsystems.com/file/d/1AuKUmI3f2ewTlccHUqTmh5mSvH1vx922/view?usp=drive_web>
>
> We will now have to use reply-all every time.
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 2:30 PM Jacques Le Roux <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Hi Aditya,
>>
>> I don't clearly understand the problem. I can see the thread <<Removing
>> support for global "ofbiz-containers.xml">> on both
>>
>> Markmail https://s.apache.org/H751 (needs Flash)
>>
>> and
>>
>> lists.apache.org: https://s.apache.org/X5If
>>
>> I can also respond to either dev ML, Mathieu or both from the initial
>> Mathieu's message (only Michael did so far)
>>
>> Jacques
>>
>> Le 13/06/2019 à 07:22, Aditya Sharma a écrit :
>>> Hi team,
>>> It seems reply-to address configuration is missing for some emails from
>> dev
>>> and user mailing list (for reference see *Removing support for global
>>> "ofbiz-containers.xml"*) while I can still find it on the notifications
>>> mailing list.
>>> Anyone having any idea about it?
>>>
>>> Thanks and regards,
>>> Aditya Sharma
>>>

[Mathieu Lirzin]

Hello Aditya,

Aditya Sharma <[hidden email]> writes:

> We can configure reply-to email address for the mailing list which means
> when the user clicks the reply button, the specified email address will be
> automatically in the *To* field.

I know some people here prefer their personal email address to not
appear in the ‘To’ header when replying to them and the mailing-list but
that's a personnal preference that can/should be defined only by the
sender of a message not the administrators of a mailing-list. [1]

Please configure your email client to add the ‘Reply-to’ header
accordingly, but let others have different preferences. :-)

> When you click on the reply button for notifications or commits emails it
> automatically adds [hidden email] as *To *field but in case of dev or
> user list, the sender's email address is added.

If things are properly configured then the ‘reply-to’ is set by
‘svnmailer’ (the program sending commit emails) not the mailing list
administrator.

> If I am replying to an email sent by you, only your email will be
> added to *To* field. Thus more chances of skipping the mailing list.
[...]
> We will now have to use reply-all every time.

Yes, this is how it is supposed to work, you should use "Reply all" when
communicating with a group of people.

[1] http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html

--
Mathieu Lirzin
GPG: F2A3 8D7E EB2B 6640 5761  070D 0ADE E100 9460 4D37

[Mathieu Lirzin]

Hello Jacques

Jacques Le Roux <[hidden email]> writes:

> 1st please when you answer to dev ML don't add my email to this
> answer. I continuously and indefectibly follows this ML (as we are
> required as committer). I have an email filter to redirect all dev ML
> emails to a dev ML folder in my email clients (Thunderbird). Actually
> I have 263 such filters (OK I filter a lot :D). It's not much about
> you but I have seen a such pattern appearing these last times. So
> please guys, we don't need a copy ;)

Asking every person on that list to remember your personnal preferences
and requiring them to manually remove your email address from recipients
when using “Replying all” does not scale. :-)

Please configure your email client to add “Reply-to: [hidden email]”
in the header of the messages you are sending to that list. That will
allow other email clients to automatically respect your personnal
preferences.

Thanks.

--
Mathieu Lirzin
GPG: F2A3 8D7E EB2B 6640 5761  070D 0ADE E100 9460 4D37

[Deepak Dixit-5]

I think we can ask infra to add reply-to header for all the mailing list.
Here is the reference infra ticket
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-18478

Thanks & Regards
--
Deepak Dixit
ofbiz.apache.org


On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 4:33 PM Mathieu Lirzin <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Hello Jacques
>
> Jacques Le Roux <[hidden email]> writes:
>
> > 1st please when you answer to dev ML don't add my email to this
> > answer. I continuously and indefectibly follows this ML (as we are
> > required as committer). I have an email filter to redirect all dev ML
> > emails to a dev ML folder in my email clients (Thunderbird). Actually
> > I have 263 such filters (OK I filter a lot :D). It's not much about
> > you but I have seen a such pattern appearing these last times. So
> > please guys, we don't need a copy ;)
>
> Asking every person on that list to remember your personnal preferences
> and requiring them to manually remove your email address from recipients
> when using “Replying all” does not scale. :-)
>
> Please configure your email client to add “Reply-to: [hidden email]”
> in the header of the messages you are sending to that list. That will
> allow other email clients to automatically respect your personnal
> preferences.
>
> Thanks.
>
> --
> Mathieu Lirzin
> GPG: F2A3 8D7E EB2B 6640 5761  070D 0ADE E100 9460 4D37
>

[Deepak Dixit-5]

On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 4:14 PM Mathieu Lirzin <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Hello Aditya,
>
> Aditya Sharma <[hidden email]> writes:
>
> > We can configure reply-to email address for the mailing list which means
> > when the user clicks the reply button, the specified email address will
> be
> > automatically in the *To* field.
>
> I know some people here prefer their personal email address to not
> appear in the ‘To’ header when replying to them and the mailing-list but
> that's a personnal preference that can/should be defined only by the
> sender of a message not the administrators of a mailing-list. [1]
>
> Please configure your email client to add the ‘Reply-to’ header
> accordingly, but let others have different preferences. :-)
>

I think if we are doing communication on the mailing list, its good to have
mailing list address in reply-to irrespective personal preference.
We can ask infra for the same.


Thanks & Regards
--
Deepak Dixit
ofbiz.apache.org

>
> > When you click on the reply button for notifications or commits emails it
> > automatically adds [hidden email] as *To *field but in case of
> dev or
> > user list, the sender's email address is added.
>
> If things are properly configured then the ‘reply-to’ is set by
> ‘svnmailer’ (the program sending commit emails) not the mailing list
> administrator.
>
> > If I am replying to an email sent by you, only your email will be
> > added to *To* field. Thus more chances of skipping the mailing list.
> [...]
> > We will now have to use reply-all every time.
>
> Yes, this is how it is supposed to work, you should use "Reply all" when
> communicating with a group of people.
>
> [1] http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html
>
> --
> Mathieu Lirzin
> GPG: F2A3 8D7E EB2B 6640 5761  070D 0ADE E100 9460 4D37
>

[Richard Siddall]

Should the reply-to header be the list address or the address of the
person whose post you are replying to?

        Richard.

Deepak Dixit wrote:

> I think we can ask infra to add reply-to header for all the mailing list.
> Here is the reference infra ticket
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-18478
>
> Thanks & Regards
> --
> Deepak Dixit
> ofbiz.apache.org
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 4:33 PM Mathieu Lirzin <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> Hello Jacques
>>
>> Jacques Le Roux <[hidden email]> writes:
>>
>>> 1st please when you answer to dev ML don't add my email to this
>>> answer. I continuously and indefectibly follows this ML (as we are
>>> required as committer). I have an email filter to redirect all dev ML
>>> emails to a dev ML folder in my email clients (Thunderbird). Actually
>>> I have 263 such filters (OK I filter a lot :D). It's not much about
>>> you but I have seen a such pattern appearing these last times. So
>>> please guys, we don't need a copy ;)
>>
>> Asking every person on that list to remember your personnal preferences
>> and requiring them to manually remove your email address from recipients
>> when using “Replying all” does not scale. :-)
>>
>> Please configure your email client to add “Reply-to: [hidden email]”
>> in the header of the messages you are sending to that list. That will
>> allow other email clients to automatically respect your personnal
>> preferences.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> --
>> Mathieu Lirzin
>> GPG: F2A3 8D7E EB2B 6640 5761  070D 0ADE E100 9460 4D37
>>
>

[adityasharma]

Sorry for bothering you for that Jacques. Even I like my inbox clean and it
bothers me when any filtered email finds it's way to my inbox. Anyways I
will be more careful further.
But yes we cannot expect everyone using the mailing list making sure to use
the right way (manually removing the personal email ids).

Thanks Deepak for sharing the ticket :)

Thanks and Regards,
Aditya Sharma

On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 5:00 PM Deepak Dixit <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 4:14 PM Mathieu Lirzin <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Hello Aditya,
> >
> > Aditya Sharma <[hidden email]> writes:
> >
> > > We can configure reply-to email address for the mailing list which
> means
> > > when the user clicks the reply button, the specified email address will
> > be
> > > automatically in the *To* field.
> >
> > I know some people here prefer their personal email address to not
> > appear in the ‘To’ header when replying to them and the mailing-list but
> > that's a personnal preference that can/should be defined only by the
> > sender of a message not the administrators of a mailing-list. [1]
> >
> > Please configure your email client to add the ‘Reply-to’ header
> > accordingly, but let others have different preferences. :-)
> >
>
> I think if we are doing communication on the mailing list, its good to have
> mailing list address in reply-to irrespective personal preference.
> We can ask infra for the same.
>
>
> Thanks & Regards
> --
> Deepak Dixit
> ofbiz.apache.org
>
>
> >
> > > When you click on the reply button for notifications or commits emails
> it
> > > automatically adds [hidden email] as *To *field but in case of
> > dev or
> > > user list, the sender's email address is added.
> >
> > If things are properly configured then the ‘reply-to’ is set by
> > ‘svnmailer’ (the program sending commit emails) not the mailing list
> > administrator.
> >
> > > If I am replying to an email sent by you, only your email will be
> > > added to *To* field. Thus more chances of skipping the mailing list.
> > [...]
> > > We will now have to use reply-all every time.
> >
> > Yes, this is how it is supposed to work, you should use "Reply all" when
> > communicating with a group of people.
> >
> > [1] http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html
> >
> > --
> > Mathieu Lirzin
> > GPG: F2A3 8D7E EB2B 6640 5761  070D 0ADE E100 9460 4D37
> >
>

[Jacques Le Roux]

+1

Jacques

Le 13/06/2019 à 13:30, Deepak Dixit a écrit :
> I think if we are doing communication on the mailing list, its good to have
> mailing list address in reply-to irrespective personal preference.
> We can ask infra for the same.

[Mathieu Lirzin]

Hello Deepak,

Deepak Dixit <[hidden email]> writes:

> On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 4:14 PM Mathieu Lirzin <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>  Hello Aditya,
>
>  Aditya Sharma <[hidden email]> writes:
>
>  > We can configure reply-to email address for the mailing list which means
>  > when the user clicks the reply button, the specified email address will be
>  > automatically in the *To* field.
>
>  I know some people here prefer their personal email address to not
>  appear in the ‘To’ header when replying to them and the mailing-list but
>  that's a personnal preference that can/should be defined only by the
>  sender of a message not the administrators of a mailing-list. [1]
>
>  Please configure your email client to add the ‘Reply-to’ header
>  accordingly, but let others have different preferences. :-)
>
> I think if we are doing communication on the mailing list, its good to
> have mailing list address in reply-to irrespective personal
> preference.  We can ask infra for the same.

I will answer to you by using a citation from
<http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html>

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
Some administrators justify Reply-To munging by saying, "All responses
should go directly to the list anyway." This is arrogant. You should
allow me to decide exactly how I wish to respond to a message. If I feel
a public response is justified, I'll hit the "g" key and tell Elm to do
a group-reply. If I believe a private response is more appropriate, I'll
use "r" to send one. Please allow me the freedom to decide how to handle
a message.
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

Please read the arguments provided by this short article. I hope it will
let you understand the drawbacks of what you are proposing.

Thanks.

--
Mathieu Lirzin
GPG: F2A3 8D7E EB2B 6640 5761  070D 0ADE E100 9460 4D37

[Jacques Le Roux]

Le 13/06/2019 à 13:02, Mathieu Lirzin a écrit :

> Hello Jacques
>
> Jacques Le Roux <[hidden email]> writes:
>
>> 1st please when you answer to dev ML don't add my email to this
>> answer. I continuously and indefectibly follows this ML (as we are
>> required as committer). I have an email filter to redirect all dev ML
>> emails to a dev ML folder in my email clients (Thunderbird). Actually
>> I have 263 such filters (OK I filter a lot :D). It's not much about
>> you but I have seen a such pattern appearing these last times. So
>> please guys, we don't need a copy ;)
> Asking every person on that list to remember your personnal preferences
> and requiring them to manually remove your email address from recipients
> when using “Replying all” does not scale. :-)

Actually we should never use “Replying all” when replying to an ML.
Else you get these useless and annoying duplicates not filtered, that's what I meant.

We should use "Replied to List" when it exists. It appears for me in Thunderbird when fitting.
I hope other email clients and webmails are allowing the same.
I guess for that the reply-to value must be set to [hidden email] and Infra can handle that.
It was working for a very long time and I suddenly these burst of duplicates, as Aditya found, don't you?

>
> Please configure your email client to add “Reply-to: [hidden email]”
> in the header of the messages you are sending to that list. That will
> allow other email clients to automatically respect your personnal
> preferences.

I don't agree, as an ASF member I reply to a lot of MLs. I don't want to be bothered by that for all of them.
Deepak's answer with INFRA-18478 seems to be the way we should handle that.

Jacques

[Jacques Le Roux]

Le 13/06/2019 à 13:35, Aditya Sharma a écrit :
> Sorry for bothering you for that Jacques. Even I like my inbox clean and it
> bothers me when any filtered email finds it's way to my inbox. Anyways I
> will be more careful further.

Oh I did not mean that, actually I did not get your mail at 1st reading and then striked the 1st section of my email out, but of course it does not
work for plain text.

> But yes we cannot expect everyone using the mailing list making sure to use
> the right way (manually removing the personal email ids).
>
> Thanks Deepak for sharing the ticket :)

Yes that's it. Who will handle it?

Jacques

>
> Thanks and Regards,
> Aditya Sharma
>
> On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 5:00 PM Deepak Dixit <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 4:14 PM Mathieu Lirzin <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Aditya,
>>>
>>> Aditya Sharma <[hidden email]> writes:
>>>
>>>> We can configure reply-to email address for the mailing list which
>> means
>>>> when the user clicks the reply button, the specified email address will
>>> be
>>>> automatically in the *To* field.
>>> I know some people here prefer their personal email address to not
>>> appear in the ‘To’ header when replying to them and the mailing-list but
>>> that's a personnal preference that can/should be defined only by the
>>> sender of a message not the administrators of a mailing-list. [1]
>>>
>>> Please configure your email client to add the ‘Reply-to’ header
>>> accordingly, but let others have different preferences. :-)
>>>
>> I think if we are doing communication on the mailing list, its good to have
>> mailing list address in reply-to irrespective personal preference.
>> We can ask infra for the same.
>>
>>
>> Thanks & Regards
>> --
>> Deepak Dixit
>> ofbiz.apache.org
>>
>>
>>>> When you click on the reply button for notifications or commits emails
>> it
>>>> automatically adds [hidden email] as *To *field but in case of
>>> dev or
>>>> user list, the sender's email address is added.
>>> If things are properly configured then the ‘reply-to’ is set by
>>> ‘svnmailer’ (the program sending commit emails) not the mailing list
>>> administrator.
>>>
>>>> If I am replying to an email sent by you, only your email will be
>>>> added to *To* field. Thus more chances of skipping the mailing list.
>>> [...]
>>>> We will now have to use reply-all every time.
>>> Yes, this is how it is supposed to work, you should use "Reply all" when
>>> communicating with a group of people.
>>>
>>> [1] http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html
>>>
>>> --
>>> Mathieu Lirzin
>>> GPG: F2A3 8D7E EB2B 6640 5761  070D 0ADE E100 9460 4D37
>>>

[Jacques Le Roux]

Matthieu,

Le 13/06/2019 à 14:08, Mathieu Lirzin a écrit :

> Hello Deepak,
>
> Deepak Dixit <[hidden email]> writes:
>
>> On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 4:14 PM Mathieu Lirzin <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>   Hello Aditya,
>>
>>   Aditya Sharma <[hidden email]> writes:
>>
>>   > We can configure reply-to email address for the mailing list which means
>>   > when the user clicks the reply button, the specified email address will be
>>   > automatically in the *To* field.
>>
>>   I know some people here prefer their personal email address to not
>>   appear in the ‘To’ header when replying to them and the mailing-list but
>>   that's a personnal preference that can/should be defined only by the
>>   sender of a message not the administrators of a mailing-list. [1]
>>
>>   Please configure your email client to add the ‘Reply-to’ header
>>   accordingly, but let others have different preferences. :-)
>>
>> I think if we are doing communication on the mailing list, its good to
>> have mailing list address in reply-to irrespective personal
>> preference.  We can ask infra for the same.
> I will answer to you by using a citation from
> <http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html>
>
> --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
> Some administrators justify Reply-To munging by saying, "All responses
> should go directly to the list anyway." This is arrogant. You should
> allow me to decide exactly how I wish to respond to a message. If I feel
> a public response is justified, I'll hit the "g" key and tell Elm to do
> a group-reply. If I believe a private response is more appropriate, I'll
> use "r" to send one. Please allow me the freedom to decide how to handle
> a message.
> --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---
>
> Please read the arguments provided by this short article. I hope it will
> let you understand the drawbacks of what you are proposing.
>
> Thanks.

Then we should ask what Infra was doing before and discuss about it.
I hope that we will find a consensus and in the process discover why this changed recently. I like the way it worked so far

Jacques

[adityasharma]

>>It was working for a very long time and I suddenly these burst of
duplicates, as Aditya found, don't you?
Exactly

>> Yes that's it. Who will handle it?
I will raise a Jira at infra if it's fine.

On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 5:55 PM Jacques Le Roux <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Matthieu,
>
> Le 13/06/2019 à 14:08, Mathieu Lirzin a écrit :
> > Hello Deepak,
> >
> > Deepak Dixit <[hidden email]> writes:
> >
> >> On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 4:14 PM Mathieu Lirzin <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
> >>
> >>   Hello Aditya,
> >>
> >>   Aditya Sharma <[hidden email]> writes:
> >>
> >>   > We can configure reply-to email address for the mailing list which
> means
> >>   > when the user clicks the reply button, the specified email address
> will be
> >>   > automatically in the *To* field.
> >>
> >>   I know some people here prefer their personal email address to not
> >>   appear in the ‘To’ header when replying to them and the mailing-list
> but
> >>   that's a personnal preference that can/should be defined only by the
> >>   sender of a message not the administrators of a mailing-list. [1]
> >>
> >>   Please configure your email client to add the ‘Reply-to’ header
> >>   accordingly, but let others have different preferences. :-)
> >>
> >> I think if we are doing communication on the mailing list, its good to
> >> have mailing list address in reply-to irrespective personal
> >> preference.  We can ask infra for the same.
> > I will answer to you by using a citation from
> > <http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html>
> >
> > --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
> > Some administrators justify Reply-To munging by saying, "All responses
> > should go directly to the list anyway." This is arrogant. You should
> > allow me to decide exactly how I wish to respond to a message. If I feel
> > a public response is justified, I'll hit the "g" key and tell Elm to do
> > a group-reply. If I believe a private response is more appropriate, I'll
> > use "r" to send one. Please allow me the freedom to decide how to handle
> > a message.
> > --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---
> >
> > Please read the arguments provided by this short article. I hope it will
> > let you understand the drawbacks of what you are proposing.
> >
> > Thanks.
>
> Then we should ask what Infra was doing before and discuss about it.
> I hope that we will find a consensus and in the process discover why this
> changed recently. I like the way it worked so far
>
> Jacques
>
>

[Jacques Le Roux]

Le 13/06/2019 à 14:23, Jacques Le Roux a écrit :

> Matthieu,
>
> Le 13/06/2019 à 14:08, Mathieu Lirzin a écrit :
>> Hello Deepak,
>>
>> Deepak Dixit <[hidden email]> writes:
>>
>>> On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 4:14 PM Mathieu Lirzin <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>   Hello Aditya,
>>>
>>>   Aditya Sharma <[hidden email]> writes:
>>>
>>>   > We can configure reply-to email address for the mailing list which means
>>>   > when the user clicks the reply button, the specified email address will be
>>>   > automatically in the *To* field.
>>>
>>>   I know some people here prefer their personal email address to not
>>>   appear in the ‘To’ header when replying to them and the mailing-list but
>>>   that's a personnal preference that can/should be defined only by the
>>>   sender of a message not the administrators of a mailing-list. [1]
>>>
>>>   Please configure your email client to add the ‘Reply-to’ header
>>>   accordingly, but let others have different preferences. :-)
>>>
>>> I think if we are doing communication on the mailing list, its good to
>>> have mailing list address in reply-to irrespective personal
>>> preference.  We can ask infra for the same.
>> I will answer to you by using a citation from
>> <http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html>
>>
>> --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
>> Some administrators justify Reply-To munging by saying, "All responses
>> should go directly to the list anyway." This is arrogant. You should
>> allow me to decide exactly how I wish to respond to a message. If I feel
>> a public response is justified, I'll hit the "g" key and tell Elm to do
>> a group-reply. If I believe a private response is more appropriate, I'll
>> use "r" to send one. Please allow me the freedom to decide how to handle
>> a message.
>> --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---
>>
>> Please read the arguments provided by this short article. I hope it will
>> let you understand the drawbacks of what you are proposing.
>>
>> Thanks.
>
> Then we should ask what Infra was doing before and discuss about it.
> I hope that we will find a consensus and in the process discover why this changed recently. I like the way it worked so far
>
> Jacques
>
>

Ah, I just tried something and I think I got your point.

You don't want to have to manually put the email address/es you want to respond to by hand.

And when I try to answer to myself to the message I answer here, I can only answer to the ML.

On the other hand, some months ago (in 2018 IIRW) I dropped the Reply to button.
It was because the behaviour then changed.
And it was easier then for me to have only a "Reply to list" and "Reply all" buttons.
Since then I use that and it's OK with me. I just have to remove now and then few email address I don't want to send when using the "Reply all" button.

And using "Reply all" for your last message I answer not only to you, but also to Deepak, Aditya and the ML.
So I clearly miss a "Reply to" button in this case (If I want to reply only to you).

OK we need to clarify this with Infra, your link should help.
We should discuss it before exposing our conclusions to Infra

My 2cts

Jacques

[Jacques Le Roux]

Le 13/06/2019 à 14:27, Aditya Sharma a écrit :
>>> Yes that's it. Who will handle it?
> I will raise a Jira at infra if it's fine.

Please wait Aditya, I think Mathieu has a point here and we need to clarify
See my last previous message in response to him.

Thanks

Jacques

[Jacques Le Roux]

Le 13/06/2019 à 14:37, Jacques Le Roux a écrit :
> OK we need to clarify this with Infra, your link should help.
> We should discuss it before exposing our conclusions to Infra
>
> My 2cts
>
> Jacques
Answering myself: maybe we can ask infra to add reply-to as in INFRA-18478 while we discuss a better solution.

Doing that, we should let them know that we are not totally satisfied with the reply-to solution and are discussing about it. Maybe they will suggest
something!

At least in the meantime we will not get all those duplicates :/

Of course for that we must agree it's a temporary solution... At least as long as we can't agree on better....

Jacques

[Mathieu Lirzin]

Jacques Le Roux <[hidden email]> writes:

> Le 13/06/2019 à 13:02, Mathieu Lirzin a écrit :
>> Hello Jacques
>>
>> Jacques Le Roux <[hidden email]> writes:
>>
>>> 1st please when you answer to dev ML don't add my email to this
>>> answer. I continuously and indefectibly follows this ML (as we are
>>> required as committer). I have an email filter to redirect all dev ML
>>> emails to a dev ML folder in my email clients (Thunderbird). Actually
>>> I have 263 such filters (OK I filter a lot :D). It's not much about
>>> you but I have seen a such pattern appearing these last times. So
>>> please guys, we don't need a copy ;)
>> Asking every person on that list to remember your personnal preferences
>> and requiring them to manually remove your email address from recipients
>> when using “Replying all” does not scale. :-)
>
> Actually we should never use “Replying all” when replying to an ML.
> Else you get these useless and annoying duplicates not filtered, that's what I meant.

If you have duplicates, then it's a bug in the mailing-list software
that should be reported to INFRA.  The right thing would be to not
resend an email to user both present in the recipients and subscribed to
a list (GNU Mailman is doing that).

> We should use "Replied to List" when it exists. It appears for me in Thunderbird when fitting.
> I hope other email clients and webmails are allowing the same.
> I guess for that the reply-to value must be set to [hidden email] and Infra can handle that.
> It was working for a very long time and I suddenly these burst of duplicates, as Aditya found, don't you?

Asking people to use “Reply to list” would be acceptable if we were
assuming that everybody participating in the discussion is subscribed to
the mailing-list which is only partially true in our case, given our
current process which consist of accepting email from non-subscribed
users but yelling at them for not not being subscribed.

>> Please configure your email client to add “Reply-to: [hidden email]”
>> in the header of the messages you are sending to that list. That will
>> allow other email clients to automatically respect your personnal
>> preferences.
>
> I don't agree, as an ASF member I reply to a lot of MLs. I don't want to be bothered by that for all of them.
> Deepak's answer with INFRA-18478 seems to be the way we should handle that.

I often don't want to cut the grass in my garden, but sometimes I have
too. ;-)

If you have a huge pile of ML subscriptions (50? 100?), you can
configure your email client incrementally each time you send an email to
a list that is not already configured and someday they will eventually
all be properly configured. \o/

Thanks.

--
Mathieu Lirzin
GPG: F2A3 8D7E EB2B 6640 5761  070D 0ADE E100 9460 4D37