Hi all,
I'd like to know your opinion about how we can manage multiple units of measures applied to the same product. In the scenario I have in mind: a) the same product can be purchased from different suppliers in (possibly) different unit of measures b) a product can be sold in a unit of measure different from the unit of measure used when it is purchased c) a product can be put in warehouse in a unit of measure different from the unit of measure used when it is purchased (or sold?) d) conversions: sometimes there is the need to use a non standard conversion coefficient to change the unit of measure of a given product (e.g. product WG-1111 could be bought in meters and put in warehouse as num of items, given a conversion factor of "1 meters = 3 WG-1111 items") Open issues: *) should quotes use the same unit of measures of the sales orders for the same product? *) should cust requests use the same unit of measures of the sales orders for the same product? *) should returns use the same unit of measures of the sales orders for the same product? I could put some effort to implement this stuff, so please, let me know what you think about all this stuff. Thanks, Jacopo _______________________________________________ Users mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users |
hi jacopo and all
we are new to this community but would like to comment on this post. in very near future we will implement OFBiz for manufacturing clients and this unit conversion is very important for us. very often it is the case where materials used in manufacturing is bought in in one unit then converted into another for easier entry into bill of materials and then taken off from stock in unit it was purchased in. in any case conversion tables should be very flexible and each user should be able to enter their own rules. as for product units, maybe makes sense that you quote and sell in same unit. if different clients want different measure units when they buy, maybe different products can be created with different part numbers. sorry i can not comment more as i am very green in OFBiz yet, but our group here will participate in all discussions realated to manufacturing cheers heiti kruusmaa fm partners Jacopo Cappellato wrote: >Hi all, > >I'd like to know your opinion about how we can manage multiple units of >measures applied to the same product. > >In the scenario I have in mind: > >a) the same product can be purchased from different suppliers in >(possibly) different unit of measures >b) a product can be sold in a unit of measure different from the unit of >measure used when it is purchased >c) a product can be put in warehouse in a unit of measure different from >the unit of measure used when it is purchased (or sold?) >d) conversions: sometimes there is the need to use a non standard >conversion coefficient to change the unit of measure of a given product >(e.g. product WG-1111 could be bought in meters and put in warehouse as >num of items, given a conversion factor of "1 meters = 3 WG-1111 items") > >Open issues: > >*) should quotes use the same unit of measures of the sales orders for >the same product? >*) should cust requests use the same unit of measures of the sales >orders for the same product? >*) should returns use the same unit of measures of the sales orders for >the same product? > >I could put some effort to implement this stuff, so please, let me know >what you think about all this stuff. > >Thanks, > >Jacopo > >_______________________________________________ >Users mailing list >[hidden email] >http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users > >!DSPAM:15,43cddd43307075605621062! > > > _______________________________________________ Users mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users |
In reply to this post by Jacopo Cappellato
Jacopo,
What you describe is very common here. We frequently buy by the case, but check into inventory as individual units. In addition, we have a very abstract purchasing UOM - a "truckload" - which could be any quantity once it is received. In our non-OFBiz PO and Inventory modules we have a "conversion factor" that converts the quantity ordered into the quantity in inventory. -Adrian Jacopo Cappellato wrote: > Hi all, > > I'd like to know your opinion about how we can manage multiple units of > measures applied to the same product. > > In the scenario I have in mind: > > a) the same product can be purchased from different suppliers in > (possibly) different unit of measures > b) a product can be sold in a unit of measure different from the unit of > measure used when it is purchased > c) a product can be put in warehouse in a unit of measure different from > the unit of measure used when it is purchased (or sold?) > d) conversions: sometimes there is the need to use a non standard > conversion coefficient to change the unit of measure of a given product > (e.g. product WG-1111 could be bought in meters and put in warehouse as > num of items, given a conversion factor of "1 meters = 3 WG-1111 items") > > Open issues: > > *) should quotes use the same unit of measures of the sales orders for > the same product? > *) should cust requests use the same unit of measures of the sales > orders for the same product? > *) should returns use the same unit of measures of the sales orders for > the same product? > > I could put some effort to implement this stuff, so please, let me know > what you think about all this stuff. > > Thanks, > > Jacopo > > _______________________________________________ > Users mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users > _______________________________________________ Users mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users |
In reply to this post by heiti kruusmaa
Hi Jacopo
You asked: Should Quote, Sales and Returns all use the same UOM? I think yes would be an acceptable answer. It would seem that a different product could be created to sell the same raw product in a different unit of measure if that were required, and I wouldn't want to see quotes, sales orders, and returns all needing a uom to be specified. That would seem to add unnecessary complexity that would easily lead to mistakes, errors, etc. I simultaneously like the idea of being able to buy or store a product in any number of units of measure, as there are often so many ways to buy the same product... unit, pack, case, pallet, truckload, etc. Thanks On Wed, 2006-01-18 at 14:41 +0200, heiti kruusmaa wrote: > hi jacopo and all > > we are new to this community but would like to comment on this post. > > in very near future we will implement OFBiz for manufacturing clients > and this unit conversion is very important for us. > > very often it is the case where materials used in manufacturing is > bought in in one unit then converted into another for easier entry into > bill of materials and then taken off from stock in unit it was purchased in. > > in any case conversion tables should be very flexible and each user > should be able to enter their own rules. > > as for product units, maybe makes sense that you quote and sell in same > unit. if different clients want different measure units when they buy, > maybe different products can be created with different part numbers. > > sorry i can not comment more as i am very green in OFBiz yet, but our > group here will participate in all discussions realated to manufacturing > > cheers > > heiti kruusmaa > > fm partners > > Jacopo Cappellato wrote: > > >Hi all, > > > >I'd like to know your opinion about how we can manage multiple units of > >measures applied to the same product. > > > >In the scenario I have in mind: > > > >a) the same product can be purchased from different suppliers in > >(possibly) different unit of measures > >b) a product can be sold in a unit of measure different from the unit of > >measure used when it is purchased > >c) a product can be put in warehouse in a unit of measure different from > >the unit of measure used when it is purchased (or sold?) > >d) conversions: sometimes there is the need to use a non standard > >conversion coefficient to change the unit of measure of a given product > >(e.g. product WG-1111 could be bought in meters and put in warehouse as > >num of items, given a conversion factor of "1 meters = 3 WG-1111 items") > > > >Open issues: > > > >*) should quotes use the same unit of measures of the sales orders for > >the same product? > >*) should cust requests use the same unit of measures of the sales > >orders for the same product? > >*) should returns use the same unit of measures of the sales orders for > >the same product? > > > >I could put some effort to implement this stuff, so please, let me know > >what you think about all this stuff. > > > >Thanks, > > > >Jacopo > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Users mailing list > >[hidden email] > >http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users > > > >!DSPAM:15,43cddd43307075605621062! > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Users mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users _______________________________________________ Users mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users |
In reply to this post by Jacopo Cappellato
hi,
We are new to this community but would like to comment on this post too. We are trying to use Ofbiz for food and beverage industries and we had same problems and we did developpement to resolve part of them. Jacopo Cappellato wrote: >Hi all, > >I'd like to know your opinion about how we can manage multiple units of >measures applied to the same product. > >In the scenario I have in mind: > >a) the same product can be purchased from different suppliers in >(possibly) different unit of measures >b) a product can be sold in a unit of measure different from the unit of >measure used when it is purchased > > Then this Uom can be different than product uom. We can associate uom with price, then this uom will be order invoicing uom. But as we add price rule to replace public price by another price type (for example budget 2006) we can associate different uom with this other price. I give you an example to ilustrate it: You take a product X, this product have list price with Kg uom. So my invoicing uom will be Kg, but with weight product we can do order with product piece and conversion will be done automaticly. But with field quantityIncluded and QuantityUomId we can exprimate product in other UOM than piece or weight. Now if we applicate price rule to change price type to use: "price type Budget 2006 for product X have uom in L", then invoicing uom will be changed in L. >c) a product can be put in warehouse in a unit of measure different from >the unit of measure used when it is purchased (or sold?) >d) conversions: sometimes there is the need to use a non standard >conversion coefficient to change the unit of measure of a given product >(e.g. product WG-1111 could be bought in meters and put in warehouse as >num of items, given a conversion factor of "1 meters = 3 WG-1111 items") > > For this problem we thought creating another quantity for stock item and uom associated (like quantity included in product). FOr example I buy 100L of vine with 10% of alcohol, then we put number of product piece correspondant and only 10L in the other quantity (it means 10L of alcohol ) >Open issues: > >*) should quotes use the same unit of measures of the sales orders for >the same product? >*) should cust requests use the same unit of measures of the sales >orders for the same product? >*) should returns use the same unit of measures of the sales orders for >the same product? > >I could put some effort to implement this stuff, so please, let me know >what you think about all this stuff. > >Thanks, > >Jacopo > >_______________________________________________ >Users mailing list >[hidden email] >http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users > > > Sorry for my poor english. Sébastien _______________________________________________ Users mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users |
In reply to this post by Jacopo Cappellato
Jacopo,
I think the answer is generally yes. What do you think of putting a whole bunch of default UOMs, etc. in the framework/common/config/general.properties? Si Jacopo Cappellato wrote: >Hi all, > >I'd like to know your opinion about how we can manage multiple units of >measures applied to the same product. > >In the scenario I have in mind: > >a) the same product can be purchased from different suppliers in >(possibly) different unit of measures >b) a product can be sold in a unit of measure different from the unit of >measure used when it is purchased >c) a product can be put in warehouse in a unit of measure different from >the unit of measure used when it is purchased (or sold?) >d) conversions: sometimes there is the need to use a non standard >conversion coefficient to change the unit of measure of a given product >(e.g. product WG-1111 could be bought in meters and put in warehouse as >num of items, given a conversion factor of "1 meters = 3 WG-1111 items") > >Open issues: > >*) should quotes use the same unit of measures of the sales orders for >the same product? >*) should cust requests use the same unit of measures of the sales >orders for the same product? >*) should returns use the same unit of measures of the sales orders for >the same product? > >I could put some effort to implement this stuff, so please, let me know >what you think about all this stuff. > >Thanks, > >Jacopo > >_______________________________________________ >Users mailing list >[hidden email] >http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users > > > _______________________________________________ Users mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users |
In reply to this post by Jacopo Cappellato
On Jan 17, 2006, at 11:16 PM, Jacopo Cappellato wrote: > a) the same product can be purchased from different suppliers in > (possibly) different unit of measures Yes, seems important. > b) a product can be sold in a unit of measure different from the > unit of > measure used when it is purchased Perhaps more to the point (and related to (c)), the product itself could have a different UOM than it was purchased in , and it could have a different UOM than it is sold in. Doing conversions if necessary at both points seems like a great idea/feature. > c) a product can be put in warehouse in a unit of measure different > from > the unit of measure used when it is purchased (or sold?) Ditto. > d) conversions: sometimes there is the need to use a non standard > conversion coefficient to change the unit of measure of a given > product > (e.g. product WG-1111 could be bought in meters and put in > warehouse as > num of items, given a conversion factor of "1 meters = 3 WG-1111 > items") Not sure how this would go... I guess along the lines of the "truckload" thing Adrian mentioned perhaps a manual conversion factor in some cases would be helpful. > Open issues: > > *) should quotes use the same unit of measures of the sales orders for > the same product? This is a good default and in the future if needed it might be good to implement, but I think this part is a lower priority than the stuff above. > *) should cust requests use the same unit of measures of the sales > orders for the same product? Same as above, nice to have but not as important as the others. > *) should returns use the same unit of measures of the sales orders > for > the same product? I think so. It doesn't make much sense to return in a different UOM than it was ordered in. This may be different from the main product uom. -David _______________________________________________ Users mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users |
David E. Jones wrote:
> On Jan 17, 2006, at 11:16 PM, Jacopo Cappellato wrote: ... >>d) conversions: sometimes there is the need to use a non standard >>conversion coefficient to change the unit of measure of a given >>product >>(e.g. product WG-1111 could be bought in meters and put in >>warehouse as >>num of items, given a conversion factor of "1 meters = 3 WG-1111 >>items") > > > Not sure how this would go... I guess along the lines of the > "truckload" thing Adrian mentioned perhaps a manual conversion factor > in some cases would be helpful. Just to clarify what I said earlier - we use a conversion factor for most scenarios and it works fine. The abstract "truckload" UOM has no conversion factor - that has to be manually converted when it is received. I mentioned it earlier just to demonstrate how crazy this UOM thing can get. As David points out - conversion factor logic will solve most cases, but not all. If someone feels brave enough to try and tackle the truckload scenario, here is how it works: Normally we order lumber in lineal feet. Suppliers price lumber as board feet (x quantity lineal feet of 2x4 equals z quantity of board feet). That's where our conversion factor works fine. Now the supplier wants to clear out some old inventory and offers us a great deal on a truckload of lumber. The truckload may contain a mixture of 2x4, 2x6, etc - each dimension having its own conversion factor. The quantities of each dimension are unknown until the truck arrives. Currently, we just receive quantity one truckload, then manually adjust inventory quantities after the contents of the truck are unloaded. To summarize, we receive one truckload of lumber, which is then converted into multiple quantities of lineal feet (a quantity for each dimension), which is again converted into board feet so the cost of each dimension received can be calculated. _______________________________________________ Users mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users |
Heiti, Adrian, Daniel, Sebastien, Si, David,
thanks for your comments and suggestions. Based of your feedback, Mario and I have discussed again about this and here is the first draft of the implementation effort: a) add ability to set purchase uom for each product/supplier; the purchase uom is used for purchase orders, incoming shipments, supplier invoices b) add ability to set one sales uom for each product; if there is the need to sell one product in different uoms, we can add a new product for each of the alternative uoms; the sales uom of the product is used in sales orders, invoices, outgoing shipments, Requests, Quotes, Returns, packing lists (?) c) add ability to set one internal uom for each product; the internal uom is used in inventory, bill-of-materials, MRP, production runs (aka manufacturing orders), requirements, stock moves, inventory transfers, picking lists, etc...; d) sales uom --> internal uom conversion: this conversion is run when inventory is reserved for a given sales order item and when inventory is issued to a shipment e) purchase uom --> internal uom conversion: this conversion is run when inventory is received thru a purchase order/shipment f) internal uom --> purchase uom conversion: this conversion is run when requirements are used to create purchase order items g) both standard conversions (e.g. ton <-> kg) and product specific conversions (meters <-> kg) will be implemented *mods to the data model* h) the following fields will be added to the Product entity: -- salesUomId -- defaultPurchaseUomId -- internalUomId i) the following field will be added to the ProductSupplier entity: -- purchaseUomId l) the standard conversion factors will be stored in the UomConversion entity m) the non standard (product specific) conversion factors will be stored in a new entity: ProductUomConversion (similar to the UomConversion entity, but with productId as a primary key) Any comments? Jacopo _______________________________________________ Users mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users |
Hi,
Your ideas are very good but I think for sales Uom there can have better solution: With your solution you say /if there is the need to sell one product in different uoms, we can add a new product for each of the alternative uoms /but, it's my opinion, users will don't like that. In food and beverage this case is very common (for exemple I have a bottle and I wan't sell it at pieces or Liter or Kg) and if I say for a same product you have to create 3 differents products they never use Ofbiz. To answer this problem we use field termUomId in entity ProductPrice. We had to create product price rule to can change price . In fact for sales Uom there are 2 notions: one is invoicing Uom (solution exposed over) and sales Uom. This second notion is answered with patch OFBIZ-369 (http://jira.undersunconsulting.com/browse/OFBIZ-369). If you think these ideas are good, say me, i will try to send you some patches. Sebastien Jacopo Cappellato wrote: >Heiti, Adrian, Daniel, Sebastien, Si, David, > >thanks for your comments and suggestions. > >Based of your feedback, Mario and I have discussed again about this and >here is the first draft of the implementation effort: > >a) add ability to set purchase uom for each product/supplier; the >purchase uom is used for purchase orders, incoming shipments, supplier >invoices > >b) add ability to set one sales uom for each product; if there is the >need to sell one product in different uoms, we can add a new product for >each of the alternative uoms; the sales uom of the product is used >in sales orders, invoices, outgoing shipments, Requests, Quotes, >Returns, packing lists (?) > >c) add ability to set one internal uom for each product; the internal >uom is used in inventory, bill-of-materials, MRP, production runs (aka >manufacturing orders), requirements, stock moves, inventory transfers, >picking lists, etc...; > >d) sales uom --> internal uom conversion: this conversion is run when >inventory is reserved for a given sales order item and when inventory is >issued to a shipment > >e) purchase uom --> internal uom conversion: this conversion is run when >inventory is received thru a purchase order/shipment > >f) internal uom --> purchase uom conversion: this conversion is run when >requirements are used to create purchase order items > >g) both standard conversions (e.g. ton <-> kg) and product specific >conversions (meters <-> kg) will be implemented > >*mods to the data model* >h) the following fields will be added to the Product entity: >-- salesUomId >-- defaultPurchaseUomId >-- internalUomId > >i) the following field will be added to the ProductSupplier entity: >-- purchaseUomId > >l) the standard conversion factors will be stored in the UomConversion >entity > >m) the non standard (product specific) conversion factors will be stored >in a new entity: ProductUomConversion (similar to the UomConversion >entity, but with productId as a primary key) > >Any comments? > >Jacopo > > >_______________________________________________ >Users mailing list >[hidden email] >http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users > > > _______________________________________________ Users mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users |
In reply to this post by Jacopo Cappellato
On Wed, 2006-01-25 at 11:49 +0100, Jacopo Cappellato wrote:
> b) add ability to set one sales uom for each product; if there is the > need to sell one product in different uoms, we can add a new product > for each of the alternative uoms; the sales uom of the product is used > in sales orders, invoices, outgoing shipments, Requests, Quotes, > Returns, packing lists (?) > Lurker here...I d/l-ed ofbiz over a year ago, thought it was interesting but not my thing just then...stayed on the mailing list to follow development. At any rate, I'm not using OFBiz and I don't read all the list messages, so I likely missed something. Now, with that disclaimer out of the way... If you have to set up a different product for each alternative sales UOM, how do you move qty from Product A to Product B within the system? Say for instance I have product FOO. I purchase FOO in pallets. I can sell it in eaches, boxes of 10, 20, 30, etc. up to selling it in pallets. Now, I set up product FOO-pa, FOO-ea, FOO-10, FOO-20, FOO-30, etc. When I purchase 10 FOO-pa, are you taking into consideration that you now have at least five different products that refer to the same inventory? I may be making much ado about nothing here. How's OFBiz at handling kits or BOM? In the example I just gave, if you have one product (FOO) it's easy enough to store it in inventory as eaches and purchase in some other bulk UOM. Then you could use BOM to create FOO-pa (which is just an assembly of X number of FOO) and so on for each sales UOM. Is that what you're talking about doing? Sorry if I'm going over the obvious here. -Aaron _______________________________________________ Users mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users |
Hi Aaron
I'll take a stab at commenting on this... Please pipe in with any corrections/additions. That's one of the big new features I'm very excited about that Si is looking at solving soon... I'm calling it an "auto-build" product. It's a product with a bom, that isn't built until it is needed if current inventory for it is zero. My original idea was for a product that would transparently convert from itself into it's component parts when purchased, or vise-versa when sold... but the auto-build feature is easier to implement and will solve the problem for now. Thanks On Wed, 2006-01-25 at 12:12 -0500, [hidden email] wrote: > On Wed, 2006-01-25 at 11:49 +0100, Jacopo Cappellato wrote: > > b) add ability to set one sales uom for each product; if there is the > > need to sell one product in different uoms, we can add a new product > > for each of the alternative uoms; the sales uom of the product is used > > in sales orders, invoices, outgoing shipments, Requests, Quotes, > > Returns, packing lists (?) > > > > Lurker here...I d/l-ed ofbiz over a year ago, thought it was interesting > but not my thing just then...stayed on the mailing list to follow > development. At any rate, I'm not using OFBiz and I don't read all the > list messages, so I likely missed something. Now, with that disclaimer > out of the way... > > If you have to set up a different product for each alternative sales > UOM, how do you move qty from Product A to Product B within the system? > Say for instance I have product FOO. I purchase FOO in pallets. I can > sell it in eaches, boxes of 10, 20, 30, etc. up to selling it in > pallets. Now, I set up product FOO-pa, FOO-ea, FOO-10, FOO-20, FOO-30, > etc. When I purchase 10 FOO-pa, are you taking into consideration that > you now have at least five different products that refer to the same > inventory? > > I may be making much ado about nothing here. How's OFBiz at handling > kits or BOM? In the example I just gave, if you have one product (FOO) > it's easy enough to store it in inventory as eaches and purchase in some > other bulk UOM. Then you could use BOM to create FOO-pa (which is just > an assembly of X number of FOO) and so on for each sales UOM. Is that > what you're talking about doing? > > Sorry if I'm going over the obvious here. > > -Aaron > > _______________________________________________ > Users mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users Daniel *-.,,.-*"*-.,,.-*"*-.,,.-*"*-.,,.-*"*-.,,.-*"*-.,,.-*"*-.,,.-*"*- Have a GREAT Day! Daniel Kunkel [hidden email] BioWaves, LLC http://www.BioWaves.com 14150 NE 20th St. Suite F1 Bellevue, WA 98007 800-734-3588 425-895-0050 http://www.Apartment-Pets.com http://www.Focus-Illusion.com http://www.Brain-Fun.com http://www.ColorGlasses.com *-.,,.-*"*-.,,.-*"*-.,,.-*"*-.,,.-*"*-.,,.-*"*-.,,.-*"*-.,,.-*"*- _______________________________________________ Users mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users |
In reply to this post by Jacopo Cappellato
Hello all,
We have a client that needs the unit of measure functionality described by Jacopo in his posting from 2006. Does anyone know if this is currently in Ofbiz trunk? Thank you, Evangelina Bowman
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