org.ofbiz.base.start.StartupException: Cannot init() catalina-container (Protocol handler initialization failed: java.io.IOException: SunX509 KeyManagerFactory not available)

[Len Parker]

I'm a newbie, so be gentle, please.

If I'm at the wrong list, what list would be correct?

I just installed OFBiz and I get the following error when I execute
"java -jar ofbiz.jar":

org.ofbiz.base.start.StartupException: Cannot init() catalina-container
(Protocol handler initialization failed: java.io.IOException: SunX509
KeyManagerFactory not available)

And, I get this error each time it calls "Sunx509 KeyManagerFactory".

I'm running RHEL5 and I have JDK 1.5 installed.

I ran "./ant" and "./ant run-install" with no problems.

My purpose is to show the boss OFBiz, and then maybe we can save a few
buck!

I thought that I knew java fairly well, but I've never used the SSL
layer that it provides. I don't understand why it can't find the
KeyManagerFactory.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Len

[BJ Freeman]

I am guessing you are on a linux box with the opensource JDK
it won't work
you need to download from the sun site the java SDK
depends on the I spent hours trying to get fedora to work. finally gave up




Len Parker sent the following on 9/24/2007 8:38 PM:

> I'm a newbie, so be gentle, please.
>
> If I'm at the wrong list, what list would be correct?
>
> I just installed OFBiz and I get the following error when I execute
> "java -jar ofbiz.jar":
>
> org.ofbiz.base.start.StartupException: Cannot init() catalina-container
> (Protocol handler initialization failed: java.io.IOException: SunX509
> KeyManagerFactory not available)
>
> And, I get this error each time it calls "Sunx509 KeyManagerFactory".
>
> I'm running RHEL5 and I have JDK 1.5 installed.
>
> I ran "./ant" and "./ant run-install" with no problems.
>
> My purpose is to show the boss OFBiz, and then maybe we can save a few
> buck!
>
> I thought that I knew java fairly well, but I've never used the SSL
> layer that it provides. I don't understand why it can't find the
> KeyManagerFactory.
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Len
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Walter Vaughan]

Len Parker wrote:

> I'm a newbie, and I get the following error when I execute
> "java -jar ofbiz.jar":

What does "java -version" say?
Why are you not using ./startofbiz.sh shell script?

Regarding your boss...
If you need a strong framework to build upon, OFBiz is what you are looking for.
If you need CRM functionality, warehouse and purchasing dashboards, built in
Business Intellegence tools, and you can deal with GPL style license software
you might also look at Opentaps. (NOTE: This is not a sales pitch for opentaps,
just a heads up that there are options in the OFBiz world, especially if you are
looking for something to show the pointy headed boss).

Welcome aboard!

--
Walter

[Jacopo Cappellato]

Walter Vaughan wrote:

> Len Parker wrote:
>
>> I'm a newbie, and I get the following error when I execute
>> "java -jar ofbiz.jar":
>
> What does "java -version" say?
> Why are you not using ./startofbiz.sh shell script?
>
> Regarding your boss...
> If you need a strong framework to build upon, OFBiz is what you are
> looking for.

OFBiz is *not* just a framework; it is an Open Source ERP system that
can be used out of the box.
Of course, but this is true for all the ERP systems, including
commercial ones, most of the companies will want to customize it to fit
their custom/special/niche processes and OFBiz is *great* in this:
developing/customizing using OFBiz's entities, services and widgets is
efficient and easy.
There are still some areas that are not fully implemented, the most
remarkable one is the accounting application: we will hopefully fill
this gap soon.

Jacopo

> If you need CRM functionality, warehouse and purchasing
> dashboards, built in Business Intellegence tools, and you can deal with
> GPL style license software you might also look at Opentaps. (NOTE: This
> is not a sales pitch for opentaps, just a heads up that there are
> options in the OFBiz world, especially if you are looking for something
> to show the pointy headed boss).
>
> Welcome aboard!
>
> --
> Walter

[Jacques Le Roux]

De : "Jacopo Cappellato" <[hidden email]>
> There are still some areas that are not fully implemented, the most
> remarkable one is the accounting application: we will hopefully fill
> this gap soon.
>
> Jacopo

I can't wait ;o)

Jacques

[Len Parker]

First, thanks for your reply.

Yes, I'm running RedHat Enterprise Linux Version 5 (RHEL5).

I installed "jdk-6u2-linux-i586-rpm" obtained from the Sun site.  

I also have java 1.4 and java 1.5 installed.  Java 1.4 is what was/is
installed by RHEL5 initial installation. I'm not sure where I got java
1.5, but I'll check to insure it was from Sun, and if not, I'll remove
it and install it from Sun's site.

Thanks for your time and your reply.  I'll post back with the results of
the 1.5 question.

Len


On Mon, 2007-09-24 at 21:12 -0700, BJ Freeman wrote:

> I am guessing you are on a linux box with the opensource JDK
> it won't work
> you need to download from the sun site the java SDK
> depends on the I spent hours trying to get fedora to work. finally gave up
>
>
>
>
> Len Parker sent the following on 9/24/2007 8:38 PM:
> > I'm a newbie, so be gentle, please.
> >
> > If I'm at the wrong list, what list would be correct?
> >
> > I just installed OFBiz and I get the following error when I execute
> > "java -jar ofbiz.jar":
> >
> > org.ofbiz.base.start.StartupException: Cannot init() catalina-container
> > (Protocol handler initialization failed: java.io.IOException: SunX509
> > KeyManagerFactory not available)
> >
> > And, I get this error each time it calls "Sunx509 KeyManagerFactory".
> >
> > I'm running RHEL5 and I have JDK 1.5 installed.
> >
> > I ran "./ant" and "./ant run-install" with no problems.
> >
> > My purpose is to show the boss OFBiz, and then maybe we can save a few
> > buck!
> >
> > I thought that I knew java fairly well, but I've never used the SSL
> > layer that it provides. I don't understand why it can't find the
> > KeyManagerFactory.
> >
> > Any help would be greatly appreciated.
> >
> > Len
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

[Len Parker]

First, thank you Walter for your reply!

Output of "java -version" is:

java version "1.5.0"
Java(TM) 2 Runtime Environment, Standard Edition (build
pxi32devifx-20070806 (SR5a))
IBM J9 VM (build 2.3, J2RE 1.5.0 IBM J9 2.3 Linux x86-32
j9vmxi3223-20070426 (JIT enabled)
J9VM - 20070420_12448_lHdSMR
JIT  - 20070419_1806_r8
GC   - 200704_19)
JCL  - 20070725


As for why I'm not using "./startofbiz.sh", sometime I do, sometimes I
don't. Sometimes I'm just lazy!
I think its the "./" that gets me, I seem to forget it half the time and
then I have to retype.  27 years of tradition unhampered by progress!
However, I get the same results with either method.

I'm not certain where I got the java 1.5 from, I think it was RedHat's
site, but I'll check and post back.
I'm concerned with the "IBM J9 VM" portion of the output of "java
-version". It makes me think that I may need to be more careful where I
get java updates. I realize that RedHat and Sun have their differences,
but I didn't stop to think about this specific update.

As for "Mr. Pointy Head", your 100% on target! Thanks for the heads up.
To tell the truth, I wasn't sure what the differences were between
Opentaps and OFBiz. I'm the original *nix bigot in our company and it
just amazes me how much money we spend on the in-house development of
these app's, most of which run on Windows. Not that I mind Windows,
everyone needs one or two around so that they can appreciate the
difference!


Again, thanks for your time and your reply!

Len

 
On Tue, 2007-09-25 at 08:18 -0400, Walter Vaughan wrote:

> Len Parker wrote:
>
> > I'm a newbie, and I get the following error when I execute
> > "java -jar ofbiz.jar":
>
> What does "java -version" say?
> Why are you not using ./startofbiz.sh shell script?
>
> Regarding your boss...
> If you need a strong framework to build upon, OFBiz is what you are looking for.
> If you need CRM functionality, warehouse and purchasing dashboards, built in
> Business Intellegence tools, and you can deal with GPL style license software
> you might also look at Opentaps. (NOTE: This is not a sales pitch for opentaps,
> just a heads up that there are options in the OFBiz world, especially if you are
> looking for something to show the pointy headed boss).
>
> Welcome aboard!
>
> --
> Walter

[BJ Freeman]

you can also modify the ofbiz.rc  to point to the java you are using
before installing it in the etc folders per the instructions.


Len Parker sent the following on 9/25/2007 8:21 AM:

> First, thanks for your reply.
>
> Yes, I'm running RedHat Enterprise Linux Version 5 (RHEL5).
>
> I installed "jdk-6u2-linux-i586-rpm" obtained from the Sun site.  
>
> I also have java 1.4 and java 1.5 installed.  Java 1.4 is what was/is
> installed by RHEL5 initial installation. I'm not sure where I got java
> 1.5, but I'll check to insure it was from Sun, and if not, I'll remove
> it and install it from Sun's site.
>
> Thanks for your time and your reply.  I'll post back with the results of
> the 1.5 question.
>
> Len
>
>
> On Mon, 2007-09-24 at 21:12 -0700, BJ Freeman wrote:
>
>> I am guessing you are on a linux box with the opensource JDK
>> it won't work
>> you need to download from the sun site the java SDK
>> depends on the I spent hours trying to get fedora to work. finally gave up
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Len Parker sent the following on 9/24/2007 8:38 PM:
>>> I'm a newbie, so be gentle, please.
>>>
>>> If I'm at the wrong list, what list would be correct?
>>>
>>> I just installed OFBiz and I get the following error when I execute
>>> "java -jar ofbiz.jar":
>>>
>>> org.ofbiz.base.start.StartupException: Cannot init() catalina-container
>>> (Protocol handler initialization failed: java.io.IOException: SunX509
>>> KeyManagerFactory not available)
>>>
>>> And, I get this error each time it calls "Sunx509 KeyManagerFactory".
>>>
>>> I'm running RHEL5 and I have JDK 1.5 installed.
>>>
>>> I ran "./ant" and "./ant run-install" with no problems.
>>>
>>> My purpose is to show the boss OFBiz, and then maybe we can save a few
>>> buck!
>>>
>>> I thought that I knew java fairly well, but I've never used the SSL
>>> layer that it provides. I don't understand why it can't find the
>>> KeyManagerFactory.
>>>
>>> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>>>
>>> Len
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>

[Len Parker]

Problem Solved!

Thank you BJ, Walter, Jacopo, and Jacques, for your replies!!

It turns out that I have java 1.5 installed from both IBM and SUN!
The /usr/bin/java is a link to
"/etc/alternatives/java" which in turn links to
"/usr/lib/jvm/jre-1.5.0-ibm/bin/java". I removed this link and linked to
"/usr/lib/jvm/java-1.5.0-sun-1.5.0.12/bin/java", and everything works as
promised.

I realize that this is not the correct way to accomplish this task,
since most of the other java stuff remains linked to the IBM stuff.
However, it was a quick, and easy/lazy, way to determine if this was the
problem. Now, I just need to figure out the correct way! The day is
young!

<sarcasm>
Now, if I can get IBM, Sun, and RedHat, to play nicely in the same
sandbox, I'll consider tackling more serious problems like world hunger,
after lunch!
</sarcasm>

Again, thanks for your replies and your time!! I'm sure that I'll be
back with hopefully more challenging questions in the future!

Len



On Tue, 2007-09-25 at 09:16 -0700, BJ Freeman wrote:

> you can also modify the ofbiz.rc  to point to the java you are using
> before installing it in the etc folders per the instructions.
>
>
> Len Parker sent the following on 9/25/2007 8:21 AM:
> > First, thanks for your reply.
> >
> > Yes, I'm running RedHat Enterprise Linux Version 5 (RHEL5).
> >
> > I installed "jdk-6u2-linux-i586-rpm" obtained from the Sun site.  
> >
> > I also have java 1.4 and java 1.5 installed.  Java 1.4 is what was/is
> > installed by RHEL5 initial installation. I'm not sure where I got java
> > 1.5, but I'll check to insure it was from Sun, and if not, I'll remove
> > it and install it from Sun's site.
> >
> > Thanks for your time and your reply.  I'll post back with the results of
> > the 1.5 question.
> >
> > Len
> >
> >
> > On Mon, 2007-09-24 at 21:12 -0700, BJ Freeman wrote:
> >
> >> I am guessing you are on a linux box with the opensource JDK
> >> it won't work
> >> you need to download from the sun site the java SDK
> >> depends on the I spent hours trying to get fedora to work. finally gave up
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Len Parker sent the following on 9/24/2007 8:38 PM:
> >>> I'm a newbie, so be gentle, please.
> >>>
> >>> If I'm at the wrong list, what list would be correct?
> >>>
> >>> I just installed OFBiz and I get the following error when I execute
> >>> "java -jar ofbiz.jar":
> >>>
> >>> org.ofbiz.base.start.StartupException: Cannot init() catalina-container
> >>> (Protocol handler initialization failed: java.io.IOException: SunX509
> >>> KeyManagerFactory not available)
> >>>
> >>> And, I get this error each time it calls "Sunx509 KeyManagerFactory".
> >>>
> >>> I'm running RHEL5 and I have JDK 1.5 installed.
> >>>
> >>> I ran "./ant" and "./ant run-install" with no problems.
> >>>
> >>> My purpose is to show the boss OFBiz, and then maybe we can save a few
> >>> buck!
> >>>
> >>> I thought that I knew java fairly well, but I've never used the SSL
> >>> layer that it provides. I don't understand why it can't find the
> >>> KeyManagerFactory.
> >>>
> >>> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
> >>>
> >>> Len
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >

[SkipDever]

Jacopo

Not to be argumentative, but I would say that Ofbiz is not "an Open Source
ERP system that can be used out of the box."  ERP as you know is an acronym
for Enterprise Resource Planning.  If you had said that Ofbiz is a great
ecommerce application that can be used out of the box, I would agree
wholeheartedly.  However, it lacks a lot on the resource planning side.  I
would also say that the training time to bring casual backoffice users up to
speed is beyond considerable (possibly uneconomical).

As Walter said, Opentaps goes a LONG way toward filling the holes and making
it earier for real people to use.  Both products however need considerable
customization to make them suitable for the majority of medium sized
businesses.

It is though perfect for VARs like me.

My two $.

Skip

-----Original Message-----
From: Jacopo Cappellato [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 5:42 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: org.ofbiz.base.start.StartupException: Cannot init()
catalina-container (Protocol handler initialization failed:
java.io.IOException: SunX509 KeyManagerFactory not available)


Walter Vaughan wrote:

> Len Parker wrote:
>
>> I'm a newbie, and I get the following error when I execute
>> "java -jar ofbiz.jar":
>
> What does "java -version" say?
> Why are you not using ./startofbiz.sh shell script?
>
> Regarding your boss...
> If you need a strong framework to build upon, OFBiz is what you are
> looking for.

OFBiz is *not* just a framework; it is an Open Source ERP system that
can be used out of the box.
Of course, but this is true for all the ERP systems, including
commercial ones, most of the companies will want to customize it to fit
their custom/special/niche processes and OFBiz is *great* in this:
developing/customizing using OFBiz's entities, services and widgets is
efficient and easy.
There are still some areas that are not fully implemented, the most
remarkable one is the accounting application: we will hopefully fill
this gap soon.

Jacopo

> If you need CRM functionality, warehouse and purchasing
> dashboards, built in Business Intellegence tools, and you can deal with
> GPL style license software you might also look at Opentaps. (NOTE: This
> is not a sales pitch for opentaps, just a heads up that there are
> options in the OFBiz world, especially if you are looking for something
> to show the pointy headed boss).
>
> Welcome aboard!
>
> --
> Walter

[Tim Ruppert]

Skip you may not have the expertise in general to use it close to OOTB, but I must disagree that it is uneconomical to have people running their business on it.  However, it may be uneconomical for newbies to be able to get their foot in the door and pop one up quickly without a lot of ramp up on the existing processes.

Anything that needs to be discussed about Opentaps - should move to their mailing list - this just isn't a sales channel for migrating people over there.

Cheers,

Tim

--

Tim Ruppert

HotWax Media

http://www.hotwaxmedia.com

o:801.649.6594

f:801.649.6595

On Sep 25, 2007, at 12:04 PM, Skip wrote:

Jacopo

Not to be argumentative, but I would say that Ofbiz is not "an Open Source

ERP system that can be used out of the box."  ERP as you know is an acronym

for Enterprise Resource Planning.  If you had said that Ofbiz is a great

ecommerce application that can be used out of the box, I would agree

wholeheartedly.  However, it lacks a lot on the resource planning side.  I

would also say that the training time to bring casual backoffice users up to

speed is beyond considerable (possibly uneconomical).

As Walter said, Opentaps goes a LONG way toward filling the holes and making

it earier for real people to use.  Both products however need considerable

customization to make them suitable for the majority of medium sized

businesses.

It is though perfect for VARs like me.

My two $.

Skip

-----Original Message-----

From: Jacopo Cappellato [[hidden email]]

Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 5:42 AM

To: [hidden email]

Subject: Re: org.ofbiz.base.start.StartupException: Cannot init()

catalina-container (Protocol handler initialization failed:

java.io.IOException: SunX509 KeyManagerFactory not available)

Walter Vaughan wrote:

Len Parker wrote:

I'm a newbie, and I get the following error when I execute

"java -jar ofbiz.jar":

What does "java -version" say?

Why are you not using ./startofbiz.sh shell script?

Regarding your boss...

If you need a strong framework to build upon, OFBiz is what you are

looking for.

OFBiz is *not* just a framework; it is an Open Source ERP system that

can be used out of the box.

Of course, but this is true for all the ERP systems, including

commercial ones, most of the companies will want to customize it to fit

their custom/special/niche processes and OFBiz is *great* in this:

developing/customizing using OFBiz's entities, services and widgets is

efficient and easy.

There are still some areas that are not fully implemented, the most

remarkable one is the accounting application: we will hopefully fill

this gap soon.

Jacopo

If you need CRM functionality, warehouse and purchasing

dashboards, built in Business Intellegence tools, and you can deal with

GPL style license software you might also look at Opentaps. (NOTE: This

is not a sales pitch for opentaps, just a heads up that there are

options in the OFBiz world, especially if you are looking for something

to show the pointy headed boss).

Welcome aboard!

--

Walter

[BJ Freeman]

Skip:
ERP is usually related to manufacturing, so in my estimate is is a
limited system for a finite market.
I don't think, though I am in the minority that Ofbiz should be
characterized as an ERP system but as a system that has ERP capability.

As far as i know obiz OOTB is meant for Vars not end users.
Si is a VAR that has done Added value to the basics.
he still uses the core ofbiz for his products.

also si's work has filtered into ofbiz OOTB.



Skip sent the following on 9/25/2007 11:04 AM:

> Jacopo
>
> Not to be argumentative, but I would say that Ofbiz is not "an Open Source
> ERP system that can be used out of the box."  ERP as you know is an acronym
> for Enterprise Resource Planning.  If you had said that Ofbiz is a great
> ecommerce application that can be used out of the box, I would agree
> wholeheartedly.  However, it lacks a lot on the resource planning side.  I
> would also say that the training time to bring casual backoffice users up to
> speed is beyond considerable (possibly uneconomical).
>
> As Walter said, Opentaps goes a LONG way toward filling the holes and making
> it earier for real people to use.  Both products however need considerable
> customization to make them suitable for the majority of medium sized
> businesses.
>
> It is though perfect for VARs like me.
>
> My two $.
>
> Skip
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jacopo Cappellato [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 5:42 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: org.ofbiz.base.start.StartupException: Cannot init()
> catalina-container (Protocol handler initialization failed:
> java.io.IOException: SunX509 KeyManagerFactory not available)
>
>
> Walter Vaughan wrote:
>> Len Parker wrote:
>>
>>> I'm a newbie, and I get the following error when I execute
>>> "java -jar ofbiz.jar":
>> What does "java -version" say?
>> Why are you not using ./startofbiz.sh shell script?
>>
>> Regarding your boss...
>> If you need a strong framework to build upon, OFBiz is what you are
>> looking for.
>
> OFBiz is *not* just a framework; it is an Open Source ERP system that
> can be used out of the box.
> Of course, but this is true for all the ERP systems, including
> commercial ones, most of the companies will want to customize it to fit
> their custom/special/niche processes and OFBiz is *great* in this:
> developing/customizing using OFBiz's entities, services and widgets is
> efficient and easy.
> There are still some areas that are not fully implemented, the most
> remarkable one is the accounting application: we will hopefully fill
> this gap soon.
>
> Jacopo
>
>> If you need CRM functionality, warehouse and purchasing
>> dashboards, built in Business Intellegence tools, and you can deal with
>> GPL style license software you might also look at Opentaps. (NOTE: This
>> is not a sales pitch for opentaps, just a heads up that there are
>> options in the OFBiz world, especially if you are looking for something
>> to show the pointy headed boss).
>>
>> Welcome aboard!
>>
>> --
>> Walter
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Walter Vaughan]

Tim Ruppert wrote:

> Anything that needs to be discussed about Opentaps - should move to
> their mailing list - this just isn't a sales channel for migrating
> people over there.

I thought for a second I was opening a can of worms, and once I did that I
should have deleted that paragraph.

Note to self... don't do that again. (Then again, dementia has taken ahold of my
  super-power memory so who knows if I'll remember this in a day :) )

--
Walter

[Tim Ruppert]

:)

On Sep 25, 2007, at 1:17 PM, Walter Vaughan wrote:

> Tim Ruppert wrote:
>
>> Anything that needs to be discussed about Opentaps - should move  
>> to their mailing list - this just isn't a sales channel for  
>> migrating people over there.
>
> I thought for a second I was opening a can of worms, and once I did  
> that I should have deleted that paragraph.
>
> Note to self... don't do that again. (Then again, dementia has  
> taken ahold of my  super-power memory so who knows if I'll remember  
> this in a day :) )
>
> --
> Walter

[Len Parker]

At this point in the game I don't want to pretend to understand the
differences between OFBiz, Opentaps, or ERP (Early Retirement Program).

I didn't take the comments about Opentaps to be a sales pitch.  I took
it as an informative message to a total newbie who could be barking up
the wrong tree.  And, I greatly appreciate Walter's and Jacopo's
comments! To a newbie the difference is not immediately apparent!
Walter's message alerted me to the possibility that I may not understand
all I know about this subject! I'm very happy that he did NOT delete
that paragraph!!

I also didn't realize that there was a different mailing list. So, thank
you Tim for pointing that out. Undoubtedly you saved me from getting
embarrassed when I asked the wrong question!

I understand the need to remain "on task" with a mailing list, but from
my point of view the information that I have received while on this
mailing list has been extremely valuable and important! And I've only
been on the list for about 12 hours! I'm looking forward to learning
much more!

Len



On Tue, 2007-09-25 at 15:17 -0400, Walter Vaughan wrote:

> Tim Ruppert wrote:
>
> > Anything that needs to be discussed about Opentaps - should move to
> > their mailing list - this just isn't a sales channel for migrating
> > people over there.
>
> I thought for a second I was opening a can of worms, and once I did that I
> should have deleted that paragraph.
>
> Note to self... don't do that again. (Then again, dementia has taken ahold of my
>   super-power memory so who knows if I'll remember this in a day :) )
>
> --
> Walter

[SkipDever]

Tim

Gads, seems as if I hit a nerve.  My apologies.  Let me respond briefly.

"Skip you may not have the expertise in general to use it close to OOTB".
My ability to use Ofbiz OOTB is not the issue here.  I am a software
engineer, not the end user. I will not be using it except for testing.  I am
implementing it now for two mid-sized businesses with three to follow.

It is my view that with few exceptions, the back office Ofbiz applications,
are not designed for the real people to use.  As some examples, go to your
friendly neighborhood corporate office and ask the A/R, A/P or manager type
person the meaning of these terms:
Logical Id, Facility Type ID, Empl Position Type Id, Manual Auth Is Capture,
Order Enum Id, To Geo, Validate G C Fin Acct, Contact Mech, Reason Enum,
etc. etc.
If that person can correctly identify the purpose of any of them (and they
have not used Ofbiz before), I would be very surprised.  I would actually be
surprised if you know all of them off the top of your head.  These are a few
of the ones I copied and pasted from various places in the Ofbiz back office
applicatons.  There are hundreds more.  To use these applications OOTB, the
person using it has to be educated on the meaning of what is mostly jargon.
Remember too that some of these applications are rarely used, but critical
when needed.

That is why I say that it is probably uneconomical to train people to use
Ofbiz OOTB.  It is, I think, more economical to rewrite the UI using terms
understood by the people using them.

By the way, I do not mean to be derogatory here.  I have evaluated lots of
ERP applications for the folks I represent, both opensource and commercial.
Ofbiz is the best of them all (or will be when I am done) and I am committed
to providing them a world-class set of applications based on it.

What I am trying to do is get those involved in the development to think
about the people who actually use the product in the end, the A/R-A/P
clerks, the shipping and recieving people, the CPAs, the purchasing agents,
the sales folks, and all the rest.

Let me also say thanks for the work that you and all those who contribute
have done.

Skip


  -----Original Message-----
  From: Tim Ruppert [mailto:[hidden email]]
  Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 11:07 AM
  To: [hidden email]
  Subject: Re: org.ofbiz.base.start.StartupException: Cannot init()
catalina-container (Protocol handler initialization failed:
java.io.IOException: SunX509 KeyManagerFactory not available)


  Skip you may not have the expertise in general to use it close to OOTB,
but I must disagree that it is uneconomical to have people running their
business on it. However, it may be uneconomical for newbies to be able to
get their foot in the door and pop one up quickly without a lot of ramp up
on the existing processes.


  Anything that needs to be discussed about Opentaps - should move to their
mailing list - this just isn't a sales channel for migrating people over
there.



  Cheers,
  Tim
  --
  Tim Ruppert
  HotWax Media
  http://www.hotwaxmedia.com


  o:801.649.6594
  f:801.649.6595




  On Sep 25, 2007, at 12:04 PM, Skip wrote:


    Jacopo


    Not to be argumentative, but I would say that Ofbiz is not "an Open
Source
    ERP system that can be used out of the box." ERP as you know is an
acronym
    for Enterprise Resource Planning. If you had said that Ofbiz is a great
    ecommerce application that can be used out of the box, I would agree
    wholeheartedly. However, it lacks a lot on the resource planning side. I
    would also say that the training time to bring casual backoffice users
up to
    speed is beyond considerable (possibly uneconomical).


    As Walter said, Opentaps goes a LONG way toward filling the holes and
making
    it earier for real people to use. Both products however need
considerable
    customization to make them suitable for the majority of medium sized
    businesses.


    It is though perfect for VARs like me.


    My two $.


    Skip


    -----Original Message-----
    From: Jacopo Cappellato [mailto:[hidden email]]
    Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 5:42 AM
    To: [hidden email]
    Subject: Re: org.ofbiz.base.start.StartupException: Cannot init()
    catalina-container (Protocol handler initialization failed:
    java.io.IOException: SunX509 KeyManagerFactory not available)




    Walter Vaughan wrote:
      Len Parker wrote:


        I'm a newbie, and I get the following error when I execute
        "java -jar ofbiz.jar":


      What does "java -version" say?
      Why are you not using ./startofbiz.sh shell script?


      Regarding your boss...
      If you need a strong framework to build upon, OFBiz is what you are
      looking for.


    OFBiz is *not* just a framework; it is an Open Source ERP system that
    can be used out of the box.
    Of course, but this is true for all the ERP systems, including
    commercial ones, most of the companies will want to customize it to fit
    their custom/special/niche processes and OFBiz is *great* in this:
    developing/customizing using OFBiz's entities, services and widgets is
    efficient and easy.
    There are still some areas that are not fully implemented, the most
    remarkable one is the accounting application: we will hopefully fill
    this gap soon.


    Jacopo


      If you need CRM functionality, warehouse and purchasing
      dashboards, built in Business Intellegence tools, and you can deal
with
      GPL style license software you might also look at Opentaps. (NOTE:
This
      is not a sales pitch for opentaps, just a heads up that there are
      options in the OFBiz world, especially if you are looking for
something
      to show the pointy headed boss).


      Welcome aboard!


      --
      Walter

[Adrian Crum]

Skip,

You'll find the OFBiz community to be a bit schizophrenic. Those who say OFBiz is ready to use out
of the box are generally those who use it primarily for eCommerce. People like yourself who say that
OFBiz out of the box is unusable without a custom UI are the ones who want to build back office
functionality. Both camps are correct - it just depends upon your perspective.

Btw, there are efforts underway to make user-friendly apps based on OFBiz. Asset Maintenance is a
good example. We're using it here (a non-eCommerce installation) out of the box.

-Adrian

Skip wrote:

> Tim
>
> Gads, seems as if I hit a nerve.  My apologies.  Let me respond briefly.
>
> "Skip you may not have the expertise in general to use it close to OOTB".
> My ability to use Ofbiz OOTB is not the issue here.  I am a software
> engineer, not the end user. I will not be using it except for testing.  I am
> implementing it now for two mid-sized businesses with three to follow.
>
> It is my view that with few exceptions, the back office Ofbiz applications,
> are not designed for the real people to use.  As some examples, go to your
> friendly neighborhood corporate office and ask the A/R, A/P or manager type
> person the meaning of these terms:
> Logical Id, Facility Type ID, Empl Position Type Id, Manual Auth Is Capture,
> Order Enum Id, To Geo, Validate G C Fin Acct, Contact Mech, Reason Enum,
> etc. etc.
> If that person can correctly identify the purpose of any of them (and they
> have not used Ofbiz before), I would be very surprised.  I would actually be
> surprised if you know all of them off the top of your head.  These are a few
> of the ones I copied and pasted from various places in the Ofbiz back office
> applicatons.  There are hundreds more.  To use these applications OOTB, the
> person using it has to be educated on the meaning of what is mostly jargon.
> Remember too that some of these applications are rarely used, but critical
> when needed.
>
> That is why I say that it is probably uneconomical to train people to use
> Ofbiz OOTB.  It is, I think, more economical to rewrite the UI using terms
> understood by the people using them.
>
> By the way, I do not mean to be derogatory here.  I have evaluated lots of
> ERP applications for the folks I represent, both opensource and commercial.
> Ofbiz is the best of them all (or will be when I am done) and I am committed
> to providing them a world-class set of applications based on it.
>
> What I am trying to do is get those involved in the development to think
> about the people who actually use the product in the end, the A/R-A/P
> clerks, the shipping and recieving people, the CPAs, the purchasing agents,
> the sales folks, and all the rest.
>
> Let me also say thanks for the work that you and all those who contribute
> have done.
>
> Skip
>
>
>   -----Original Message-----
>   From: Tim Ruppert [mailto:[hidden email]]
>   Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 11:07 AM
>   To: [hidden email]
>   Subject: Re: org.ofbiz.base.start.StartupException: Cannot init()
> catalina-container (Protocol handler initialization failed:
> java.io.IOException: SunX509 KeyManagerFactory not available)
>
>
>   Skip you may not have the expertise in general to use it close to OOTB,
> but I must disagree that it is uneconomical to have people running their
> business on it. However, it may be uneconomical for newbies to be able to
> get their foot in the door and pop one up quickly without a lot of ramp up
> on the existing processes.
>
>
>   Anything that needs to be discussed about Opentaps - should move to their
> mailing list - this just isn't a sales channel for migrating people over
> there.
>
>
>
>   Cheers,
>   Tim
>   --
>   Tim Ruppert
>   HotWax Media
>   http://www.hotwaxmedia.com
>
>
>   o:801.649.6594
>   f:801.649.6595
>
>
>
>
>   On Sep 25, 2007, at 12:04 PM, Skip wrote:
>
>
>     Jacopo
>
>
>     Not to be argumentative, but I would say that Ofbiz is not "an Open
> Source
>     ERP system that can be used out of the box." ERP as you know is an
> acronym
>     for Enterprise Resource Planning. If you had said that Ofbiz is a great
>     ecommerce application that can be used out of the box, I would agree
>     wholeheartedly. However, it lacks a lot on the resource planning side. I
>     would also say that the training time to bring casual backoffice users
> up to
>     speed is beyond considerable (possibly uneconomical).
>
>
>     As Walter said, Opentaps goes a LONG way toward filling the holes and
> making
>     it earier for real people to use. Both products however need
> considerable
>     customization to make them suitable for the majority of medium sized
>     businesses.
>
>
>     It is though perfect for VARs like me.
>
>
>     My two $.
>
>
>     Skip
>
>
>     -----Original Message-----
>     From: Jacopo Cappellato [mailto:[hidden email]]
>     Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 5:42 AM
>     To: [hidden email]
>     Subject: Re: org.ofbiz.base.start.StartupException: Cannot init()
>     catalina-container (Protocol handler initialization failed:
>     java.io.IOException: SunX509 KeyManagerFactory not available)
>
>
>
>
>     Walter Vaughan wrote:
>       Len Parker wrote:
>
>
>         I'm a newbie, and I get the following error when I execute
>         "java -jar ofbiz.jar":
>
>
>       What does "java -version" say?
>       Why are you not using ./startofbiz.sh shell script?
>
>
>       Regarding your boss...
>       If you need a strong framework to build upon, OFBiz is what you are
>       looking for.
>
>
>     OFBiz is *not* just a framework; it is an Open Source ERP system that
>     can be used out of the box.
>     Of course, but this is true for all the ERP systems, including
>     commercial ones, most of the companies will want to customize it to fit
>     their custom/special/niche processes and OFBiz is *great* in this:
>     developing/customizing using OFBiz's entities, services and widgets is
>     efficient and easy.
>     There are still some areas that are not fully implemented, the most
>     remarkable one is the accounting application: we will hopefully fill
>     this gap soon.
>
>
>     Jacopo
>
>
>       If you need CRM functionality, warehouse and purchasing
>       dashboards, built in Business Intellegence tools, and you can deal
> with
>       GPL style license software you might also look at Opentaps. (NOTE:
> This
>       is not a sales pitch for opentaps, just a heads up that there are
>       options in the OFBiz world, especially if you are looking for
> something
>       to show the pointy headed boss).
>
>
>       Welcome aboard!
>
>
>       --
>       Walter
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Jacopo Cappellato]

Adrian,

Adrian Crum wrote:
> Skip,
>
> You'll find the OFBiz community to be a bit schizophrenic.

hmmm... ok, I am, you are right on this. :-)

> Those who say
> OFBiz is ready to use out of the box are generally those who use it
> primarily for eCommerce. People like yourself who say that OFBiz out of
> the box is unusable without a custom UI are the ones who want to build
> back office functionality.

No, I don't agree with this. I'm not an expert of ecommerce and I've
never delivered this application to my customers: I'm really focused on
the backend (orders, manufacturing and fulfillment processes in general).
One of our customer is live with the OFBiz since June (they are an
important Italian company and they are running OFBiz to manage the
processes of a manufacturing facility in China) and I can proudly
confirm that they are running it with very minor customizations.

Just my 2 cents

Jacopo

> Both camps are correct - it just depends upon
> your perspective.
>
> Btw, there are efforts underway to make user-friendly apps based on
> OFBiz. Asset Maintenance is a good example. We're using it here (a
> non-eCommerce installation) out of the box.
>
> -Adrian
>
> Skip wrote:
>
>> Tim
>>
>> Gads, seems as if I hit a nerve.  My apologies.  Let me respond briefly.
>>
>> "Skip you may not have the expertise in general to use it close to OOTB".
>> My ability to use Ofbiz OOTB is not the issue here.  I am a software
>> engineer, not the end user. I will not be using it except for
>> testing.  I am
>> implementing it now for two mid-sized businesses with three to follow.
>>
>> It is my view that with few exceptions, the back office Ofbiz
>> applications,
>> are not designed for the real people to use.  As some examples, go to
>> your
>> friendly neighborhood corporate office and ask the A/R, A/P or manager
>> type
>> person the meaning of these terms:
>> Logical Id, Facility Type ID, Empl Position Type Id, Manual Auth Is
>> Capture,
>> Order Enum Id, To Geo, Validate G C Fin Acct, Contact Mech, Reason Enum,
>> etc. etc.
>> If that person can correctly identify the purpose of any of them (and
>> they
>> have not used Ofbiz before), I would be very surprised.  I would
>> actually be
>> surprised if you know all of them off the top of your head.  These are
>> a few
>> of the ones I copied and pasted from various places in the Ofbiz back
>> office
>> applicatons.  There are hundreds more.  To use these applications
>> OOTB, the
>> person using it has to be educated on the meaning of what is mostly
>> jargon.
>> Remember too that some of these applications are rarely used, but
>> critical
>> when needed.
>>
>> That is why I say that it is probably uneconomical to train people to use
>> Ofbiz OOTB.  It is, I think, more economical to rewrite the UI using
>> terms
>> understood by the people using them.
>>
>> By the way, I do not mean to be derogatory here.  I have evaluated
>> lots of
>> ERP applications for the folks I represent, both opensource and
>> commercial.
>> Ofbiz is the best of them all (or will be when I am done) and I am
>> committed
>> to providing them a world-class set of applications based on it.
>>
>> What I am trying to do is get those involved in the development to think
>> about the people who actually use the product in the end, the A/R-A/P
>> clerks, the shipping and recieving people, the CPAs, the purchasing
>> agents,
>> the sales folks, and all the rest.
>>
>> Let me also say thanks for the work that you and all those who contribute
>> have done.
>>
>> Skip
>>
>>
>>   -----Original Message-----
>>   From: Tim Ruppert [mailto:[hidden email]]
>>   Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 11:07 AM
>>   To: [hidden email]
>>   Subject: Re: org.ofbiz.base.start.StartupException: Cannot init()
>> catalina-container (Protocol handler initialization failed:
>> java.io.IOException: SunX509 KeyManagerFactory not available)
>>
>>
>>   Skip you may not have the expertise in general to use it close to OOTB,
>> but I must disagree that it is uneconomical to have people running their
>> business on it. However, it may be uneconomical for newbies to be able to
>> get their foot in the door and pop one up quickly without a lot of
>> ramp up
>> on the existing processes.
>>
>>
>>   Anything that needs to be discussed about Opentaps - should move to
>> their
>> mailing list - this just isn't a sales channel for migrating people over
>> there.
>>
>>
>>
>>   Cheers,
>>   Tim
>>   --
>>   Tim Ruppert
>>   HotWax Media
>>   http://www.hotwaxmedia.com
>>
>>
>>   o:801.649.6594
>>   f:801.649.6595
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>   On Sep 25, 2007, at 12:04 PM, Skip wrote:
>>
>>
>>     Jacopo
>>
>>
>>     Not to be argumentative, but I would say that Ofbiz is not "an Open
>> Source
>>     ERP system that can be used out of the box." ERP as you know is an
>> acronym
>>     for Enterprise Resource Planning. If you had said that Ofbiz is a
>> great
>>     ecommerce application that can be used out of the box, I would agree
>>     wholeheartedly. However, it lacks a lot on the resource planning
>> side. I
>>     would also say that the training time to bring casual backoffice
>> users
>> up to
>>     speed is beyond considerable (possibly uneconomical).
>>
>>
>>     As Walter said, Opentaps goes a LONG way toward filling the holes and
>> making
>>     it earier for real people to use. Both products however need
>> considerable
>>     customization to make them suitable for the majority of medium sized
>>     businesses.
>>
>>
>>     It is though perfect for VARs like me.
>>
>>
>>     My two $.
>>
>>
>>     Skip
>>
>>
>>     -----Original Message-----
>>     From: Jacopo Cappellato [mailto:[hidden email]]
>>     Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 5:42 AM
>>     To: [hidden email]
>>     Subject: Re: org.ofbiz.base.start.StartupException: Cannot init()
>>     catalina-container (Protocol handler initialization failed:
>>     java.io.IOException: SunX509 KeyManagerFactory not available)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>     Walter Vaughan wrote:
>>       Len Parker wrote:
>>
>>
>>         I'm a newbie, and I get the following error when I execute
>>         "java -jar ofbiz.jar":
>>
>>
>>       What does "java -version" say?
>>       Why are you not using ./startofbiz.sh shell script?
>>
>>
>>       Regarding your boss...
>>       If you need a strong framework to build upon, OFBiz is what you are
>>       looking for.
>>
>>
>>     OFBiz is *not* just a framework; it is an Open Source ERP system that
>>     can be used out of the box.
>>     Of course, but this is true for all the ERP systems, including
>>     commercial ones, most of the companies will want to customize it
>> to fit
>>     their custom/special/niche processes and OFBiz is *great* in this:
>>     developing/customizing using OFBiz's entities, services and
>> widgets is
>>     efficient and easy.
>>     There are still some areas that are not fully implemented, the most
>>     remarkable one is the accounting application: we will hopefully fill
>>     this gap soon.
>>
>>
>>     Jacopo
>>
>>
>>       If you need CRM functionality, warehouse and purchasing
>>       dashboards, built in Business Intellegence tools, and you can deal
>> with
>>       GPL style license software you might also look at Opentaps. (NOTE:
>> This
>>       is not a sales pitch for opentaps, just a heads up that there are
>>       options in the OFBiz world, especially if you are looking for
>> something
>>       to show the pointy headed boss).
>>
>>
>>       Welcome aboard!
>>
>>
>>       --
>>       Walter
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>

[David E Jones]

Adrian Crum wrote:
> You'll find the OFBiz community to be a bit schizophrenic. Those who say
> OFBiz is ready to use out of the box are generally those who use it
> primarily for eCommerce. People like yourself who say that OFBiz out of
> the box is unusable without a custom UI are the ones who want to build
> back office functionality. Both camps are correct - it just depends upon
> your perspective.

That's an interesting perspective... but my thought at I was reading this is that it's a bit of the opposite. Usually ecommerce involves branding and other things intended for use by, and enjoyment of ;), customers. This usually involves a lot of customization, often throwing out and redoing all HTML in the ecommerce FTL files (which is why they are ftl files and not form widget defs), and often changing or refactoring or writing additional data prep and input processing code.

On the back end it just depends on what the company wants... I've seen client do more customization on the back end than on the customer facing stuff, though sometimes that's a really bad idea because on the back end you have to watch ROI and make sure investments really do make more things possible or make things easier/faster/cheaper for employees.

-David

[Tim Ruppert]

No nerves my friend - just trying to make sure the information gets articulated properly to everyone.  And yes, some terms are not friendly for the local small businessman - but since they weren't just made up out of thin air - I challenge you to ask them just about any question where the answer doesn't come from a very simple, quite limiting tool and expect to get a proper answer.

OFBiz is a GREAT platform to build a business around, you just have to have worked with it longer than some people might like to get proficient.  And THAT should be the goal with all of this IMHO.

By the way, I would LOVE to see mods to the backend that would help usability.  My personal experience is it's much easier to train them to train others than it is to tailor every operation to what a user is used to.  The most difficult client is someone who tries to shoehorn OFBiz into the one app they're used to!

Cheers,

Tim

--

Tim Ruppert

HotWax Media

http://www.hotwaxmedia.com

o:801.649.6594

f:801.649.6595

On Sep 25, 2007, at 1:49 PM, Skip wrote:

Tim

Gads, seems as if I hit a nerve.  My apologies.  Let me respond briefly.

"Skip you may not have the expertise in general to use it close to OOTB".

My ability to use Ofbiz OOTB is not the issue here.  I am a software

engineer, not the end user. I will not be using it except for testing.  I am

implementing it now for two mid-sized businesses with three to follow.

It is my view that with few exceptions, the back office Ofbiz applications,

are not designed for the real people to use.  As some examples, go to your

friendly neighborhood corporate office and ask the A/R, A/P or manager type

person the meaning of these terms:

Logical Id, Facility Type ID, Empl Position Type Id, Manual Auth Is Capture,

Order Enum Id, To Geo, Validate G C Fin Acct, Contact Mech, Reason Enum,

etc. etc.

If that person can correctly identify the purpose of any of them (and they

have not used Ofbiz before), I would be very surprised.  I would actually be

surprised if you know all of them off the top of your head.  These are a few

of the ones I copied and pasted from various places in the Ofbiz back office

applicatons.  There are hundreds more.  To use these applications OOTB, the

person using it has to be educated on the meaning of what is mostly jargon.

Remember too that some of these applications are rarely used, but critical

when needed.

That is why I say that it is probably uneconomical to train people to use

Ofbiz OOTB.  It is, I think, more economical to rewrite the UI using terms

understood by the people using them.

By the way, I do not mean to be derogatory here.  I have evaluated lots of

ERP applications for the folks I represent, both opensource and commercial.

Ofbiz is the best of them all (or will be when I am done) and I am committed

to providing them a world-class set of applications based on it.

What I am trying to do is get those involved in the development to think

about the people who actually use the product in the end, the A/R-A/P

clerks, the shipping and recieving people, the CPAs, the purchasing agents,

the sales folks, and all the rest.

Let me also say thanks for the work that you and all those who contribute

have done.

Skip

  -----Original Message-----

  From: Tim Ruppert [[hidden email]]

  Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 11:07 AM

  To: [hidden email]

  Subject: Re: org.ofbiz.base.start.StartupException: Cannot init()

catalina-container (Protocol handler initialization failed:

java.io.IOException: SunX509 KeyManagerFactory not available)

  Skip you may not have the expertise in general to use it close to OOTB,

but I must disagree that it is uneconomical to have people running their

business on it. However, it may be uneconomical for newbies to be able to

get their foot in the door and pop one up quickly without a lot of ramp up

on the existing processes.

  Anything that needs to be discussed about Opentaps - should move to their

mailing list - this just isn't a sales channel for migrating people over

there.

  Cheers,

  Tim

  --

  Tim Ruppert

  HotWax Media

  http://www.hotwaxmedia.com

  o:801.649.6594

  f:801.649.6595

  On Sep 25, 2007, at 12:04 PM, Skip wrote:

    Jacopo

    Not to be argumentative, but I would say that Ofbiz is not "an Open

Source

    ERP system that can be used out of the box." ERP as you know is an

acronym

    for Enterprise Resource Planning. If you had said that Ofbiz is a great

    ecommerce application that can be used out of the box, I would agree

    wholeheartedly. However, it lacks a lot on the resource planning side. I

    would also say that the training time to bring casual backoffice users

up to

    speed is beyond considerable (possibly uneconomical).

    As Walter said, Opentaps goes a LONG way toward filling the holes and

making

    it earier for real people to use. Both products however need

considerable

    customization to make them suitable for the majority of medium sized

    businesses.

    It is though perfect for VARs like me.

    My two $.

    Skip

    -----Original Message-----

    From: Jacopo Cappellato [[hidden email]]

    Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 5:42 AM

    To: [hidden email]

    Subject: Re: org.ofbiz.base.start.StartupException: Cannot init()

    catalina-container (Protocol handler initialization failed:

    java.io.IOException: SunX509 KeyManagerFactory not available)

    Walter Vaughan wrote:

      Len Parker wrote:

        I'm a newbie, and I get the following error when I execute

        "java -jar ofbiz.jar":

      What does "java -version" say?

      Why are you not using ./startofbiz.sh shell script?

      Regarding your boss...

      If you need a strong framework to build upon, OFBiz is what you are

      looking for.

    OFBiz is *not* just a framework; it is an Open Source ERP system that

    can be used out of the box.

    Of course, but this is true for all the ERP systems, including

    commercial ones, most of the companies will want to customize it to fit

    their custom/special/niche processes and OFBiz is *great* in this:

    developing/customizing using OFBiz's entities, services and widgets is

    efficient and easy.

    There are still some areas that are not fully implemented, the most

    remarkable one is the accounting application: we will hopefully fill

    this gap soon.

    Jacopo

      If you need CRM functionality, warehouse and purchasing

      dashboards, built in Business Intellegence tools, and you can deal

with

      GPL style license software you might also look at Opentaps. (NOTE:

This

      is not a sales pitch for opentaps, just a heads up that there are

      options in the OFBiz world, especially if you are looking for

something

      to show the pointy headed boss).

      Welcome aboard!

      --

      Walter