shipments made for out of stock items
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BJ
I think we are talking about different issues. The flag would only be used to determine whether the existing quickship code is run or whether inventory checks are done and requirements created for out of stock items when the quickship button is pressed. The satisfaction of the requirements, i.e. dropshipped or backordered etc. would be determined by other (hopefully existing) code. In this way, existing Ofbiz users who want the existing behavior would be unaffected and those of us with walk-in customers who backorder things have an easier time getting it done. For my current customer, I actually need to give the purchasing guy both options (dropship from multiple suppliers and backorder and ship locally). But, I expect this code to be in some other area (haven't looked yet). Skip -----Original Message----- From: BJ Freeman [mailto:[hidden email]] Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 4:05 PM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: shipments made for out of stock items if the inventory supplier is a dropshipper would be the consideration. since you can have many suppliers for a product, you could have a supplier you order from for your local supplier and a drop shipper as well. this would come under a scenario of determining best cost and delivery of the product which is part of ERP. So I don't think a simple flag is the answer. Skip sent the following on 10/24/2007 3:33 PM: > BJ > > No, I have considered only my own needs. However, a property which > determines the behavior satisfies both camps. > > Skip > > -----Original Message----- > From: BJ Freeman [mailto:[hidden email]] > Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 1:27 PM > To: [hidden email] > Subject: Re: shipments made for out of stock items > > > Skip have you consider the sequence for a dropshipper, and some > fulfillment houses. > you don't have their inventory. > > Skip sent the following on 10/24/2007 1:09 PM: >> Dave >> >> I agree that this is a big hole/bug. On the other hand, there are folks > who >> don't mind/prefer the sloppiness (I have a customer just like that). So, >> perhaps we could use a property to define the behavior, like: >> >> ilikesloppybookkeeping=true/false (tongue in cheek) >> >> However, I would be happy to collaborate to get this done. I want >> requirements and automatic backorders issued for out of stock etc for > quick >> ship. I was just about to start work on this. We could modify the > existing >> service to look for a property and if it exists, do the better > / >> automatic ordering. >> >> This is a hole for me because if my customer has a customer at the counter >> and is selling him some stuff and part of it is on back order, he has to >> exit out of the sales order screen and go to the shipping screen to get it >> all done right. It's a pain and will happen 10 times a day for him. > Fixing >> the quickship will take care of it. >> >> Maybe with the configurable property, the muckity-mucks won't be so >> reluctant to accept it. >> >> Skip >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: David E Jones [mailto:[hidden email]] >> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:24 PM >> To: [hidden email] >> Subject: Re: shipments made for out of stock items >> >> >> >> On Oct 24, 2007, at 6:41 AM, Dave Tenerowicz wrote: >> >>> The more I think about this, it seems inappropriate for an ERP >>> system to allow this. Why would the quick ship service allow a user >>> to charge a customers credit card and "ship" a physical product >>> that the system "knew" was not available? >> For some users the system doesn't know everything... >> >>> Before charging the card, the sales person would want to confirm >>> that the goods were actually available. Once this was confirmed, it >>> would take a facility worker 30 seconds to adjust the inventory, >>> leaving an audit trail etc. >> Yes, but not everyone wants to use it this way. >> >>> To me this seems like a JIRA issue, which should be fixed. >>> >>> I'll submit the issue and we'll submit a fix. >> It will most likely be rejected. >> >> -David >> >> >>> Dave Tenerowicz wrote: >>>> Thank you! >>>> >>>> David E Jones wrote: >>>>> Well, there ya go! >>>>> >>>>> The quick ship order stuff doesn't check stock levels... >>>>> >>>>> -David >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Oct 23, 2007, at 3:53 PM, Dave Tenerowicz wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Yes, I should have mentioned that we created a new service to >>>>>> automatically create shipments. It calls quickShipOrder as part >>>>>> of it's processing. >>>>>> -Dave >>>>>> >>>>>> David E Jones wrote: >>>>>>> What do you mean by "being created"? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> There isn't really anything that automatically creates >>>>>>> shipments, unless a human does it through some UI like the >>>>>>> shipment or packing screens (or a service or something was >>>>>>> written to automatically do it somehow). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -David >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Oct 22, 2007, at 3:48 PM, Dave Tenerowicz wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It appears that shipments are being created with out of stock >>>>>>>> items in an implementation we are doing. I am guessing this is >>>>>>>> due to product store settings, not a code issue. >>>>>>>> rev = 545314 >>>>>>>> check inventory=Y >>>>>>>> reserve inventory=Y >>>>>>>> require inventory=N >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> All products are finished goods (no digital or virtual) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks for any help. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Dave Tenerowicz >>>>>>>> [hidden email] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Office: 303.493.6727 >>>>>>>> Mobile 303.906.6116 >>>>>>>> Fax 303.814.8330 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Visit us at http://www.salmonllc.com >>>>>>>> For ERP Information: http://www.salmonllc.com/Jsp/vanity/ >>>>>>>> ERP_CRM.jsp?nav=2&NavBarId=ERP_CRMServices >>>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Dave Tenerowicz >>>>>> [hidden email] >>>>>> >>>>>> Office: 303.493.6727 >>>>>> Mobile 303.906.6116 >>>>>> Fax 303.814.8330 >>>>>> >>>>>> Visit us at http://www.salmonllc.com >>>>>> For ERP Information: http://www.salmonllc.com/Jsp/vanity/ >>>>>> ERP_CRM.jsp?nav=2&NavBarId=ERP_CRMServices >>>>>> >>> -- >>> Dave Tenerowicz >>> [hidden email] >>> >>> Office: 303.493.6727 >>> Mobile 303.906.6116 >>> Fax 303.814.8330 >>> >>> Visit us at http://www.salmonllc.com >>> For ERP Information: http://www.salmonllc.com/Jsp/vanity/ >>> ERP_CRM.jsp?nav=2&NavBarId=ERP_CRMServices >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > |
Re: shipments made for out of stock items
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In reply to this post by SkipDever
Skip-
Agree. I was not suggesting that a fix would be unconditional. Rather, something along the lines you suggest here- a conditional property that can be checked to determine whether or not stock should be checked before issuing. For this particular client this is an absolute requirement. In fact, this has been an client expectation / requirement for most of the ERP implementations I have done (most not with OFB). -Dave Skip wrote: > Dave > > I agree that this is a big hole/bug. On the other hand, there are folks who > don't mind/prefer the sloppiness (I have a customer just like that). So, > perhaps we could use a property to define the behavior, like: > > ilikesloppybookkeeping=true/false (tongue in cheek) > > However, I would be happy to collaborate to get this done. I want > requirements and automatic backorders issued for out of stock etc for quick > ship. I was just about to start work on this. We could modify the existing > service to look for a property and if it exists, do the better bookkeeping / > automatic ordering. > > This is a hole for me because if my customer has a customer at the counter > and is selling him some stuff and part of it is on back order, he has to > exit out of the sales order screen and go to the shipping screen to get it > all done right. It's a pain and will happen 10 times a day for him. Fixing > the quickship will take care of it. > > Maybe with the configurable property, the muckity-mucks won't be so > reluctant to accept it. > > Skip > > -----Original Message----- > From: David E Jones [mailto:[hidden email]] > Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:24 PM > To: [hidden email] > Subject: Re: shipments made for out of stock items > > > > On Oct 24, 2007, at 6:41 AM, Dave Tenerowicz wrote: > > >> The more I think about this, it seems inappropriate for an ERP >> system to allow this. Why would the quick ship service allow a user >> to charge a customers credit card and "ship" a physical product >> that the system "knew" was not available? >> > > For some users the system doesn't know everything... > > >> Before charging the card, the sales person would want to confirm >> that the goods were actually available. Once this was confirmed, it >> would take a facility worker 30 seconds to adjust the inventory, >> leaving an audit trail etc. >> > > Yes, but not everyone wants to use it this way. > > >> To me this seems like a JIRA issue, which should be fixed. >> >> I'll submit the issue and we'll submit a fix. >> > > It will most likely be rejected. > > -David > > > >> Dave Tenerowicz wrote: >> >>> Thank you! >>> >>> David E Jones wrote: >>> >>>> Well, there ya go! >>>> >>>> The quick ship order stuff doesn't check stock levels... >>>> >>>> -David >>>> >>>> >>>> On Oct 23, 2007, at 3:53 PM, Dave Tenerowicz wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Yes, I should have mentioned that we created a new service to >>>>> automatically create shipments. It calls quickShipOrder as part >>>>> of it's processing. >>>>> -Dave >>>>> >>>>> David E Jones wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> What do you mean by "being created"? >>>>>> >>>>>> There isn't really anything that automatically creates >>>>>> shipments, unless a human does it through some UI like the >>>>>> shipment or packing screens (or a service or something was >>>>>> written to automatically do it somehow). >>>>>> >>>>>> -David >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Oct 22, 2007, at 3:48 PM, Dave Tenerowicz wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> It appears that shipments are being created with out of stock >>>>>>> items in an implementation we are doing. I am guessing this is >>>>>>> due to product store settings, not a code issue. >>>>>>> rev = 545314 >>>>>>> check inventory=Y >>>>>>> reserve inventory=Y >>>>>>> require inventory=N >>>>>>> >>>>>>> All products are finished goods (no digital or virtual) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks for any help. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Dave Tenerowicz >>>>>>> [hidden email] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Office: 303.493.6727 >>>>>>> Mobile 303.906.6116 >>>>>>> Fax 303.814.8330 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Visit us at http://www.salmonllc.com >>>>>>> For ERP Information: http://www.salmonllc.com/Jsp/vanity/ >>>>>>> ERP_CRM.jsp?nav=2&NavBarId=ERP_CRMServices >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Dave Tenerowicz >>>>> [hidden email] >>>>> >>>>> Office: 303.493.6727 >>>>> Mobile 303.906.6116 >>>>> Fax 303.814.8330 >>>>> >>>>> Visit us at http://www.salmonllc.com >>>>> For ERP Information: http://www.salmonllc.com/Jsp/vanity/ >>>>> ERP_CRM.jsp?nav=2&NavBarId=ERP_CRMServices >>>>> >>>>> >> -- >> Dave Tenerowicz >> [hidden email] >> >> Office: 303.493.6727 >> Mobile 303.906.6116 >> Fax 303.814.8330 >> >> Visit us at http://www.salmonllc.com >> For ERP Information: http://www.salmonllc.com/Jsp/vanity/ >> ERP_CRM.jsp?nav=2&NavBarId=ERP_CRMServices >> >> > > > > > -- Dave Tenerowicz [hidden email] Office: 303.493.6727 Mobile 303.906.6116 Fax 303.814.8330 Visit us at http://www.salmonllc.com For ERP Information: http://www.salmonllc.com/Jsp/vanity/ERP_CRM.jsp?nav=2&NavBarId=ERP_CRMServices |
Re: shipments made for out of stock items
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In reply to this post by SkipDever
Ok I guess this comes under business logic
and hopefully we can have may such services that can be configured based on the product, but assigning these services in the product configuration. I am trying to think not as this is my requirement, but a best way to expand ofbiz that lets consultant configure with out changing ofbiz as such. and yes, allow to be backward compatible by putting in a default service with the current business logic I think this effort would satisfy everyone and allow for future expansion with a lot more ease. Skip sent the following on 10/24/2007 4:38 PM: > BJ > > I think we are talking about different issues. The flag would only be used > to determine whether the existing quickship code is run or whether inventory > checks are done and requirements created for out of stock items when the > quickship button is pressed. The satisfaction of the requirements, i.e. > dropshipped or backordered etc. would be determined by other (hopefully > existing) code. In this way, existing Ofbiz users who want the existing > behavior would be unaffected and those of us with walk-in customers who > backorder things have an easier time getting it done. > > For my current customer, I actually need to give the purchasing guy both > options (dropship from multiple suppliers and backorder and ship locally). > But, I expect this code to be in some other area (haven't looked yet). > > Skip > > -----Original Message----- > From: BJ Freeman [mailto:[hidden email]] > Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 4:05 PM > To: [hidden email] > Subject: Re: shipments made for out of stock items > > > if the inventory supplier is a dropshipper would be the consideration. > since you can have many suppliers for a product, you could have a > supplier you order from for your local supplier and a drop shipper as well. > this would come under a scenario of determining best cost and delivery > of the product which is part of ERP. > > So I don't think a simple flag is the answer. > > > Skip sent the following on 10/24/2007 3:33 PM: >> BJ >> >> No, I have considered only my own needs. However, a property which >> determines the behavior satisfies both camps. >> >> Skip >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: BJ Freeman [mailto:[hidden email]] >> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 1:27 PM >> To: [hidden email] >> Subject: Re: shipments made for out of stock items >> >> >> Skip have you consider the sequence for a dropshipper, and some >> fulfillment houses. >> you don't have their inventory. >> >> Skip sent the following on 10/24/2007 1:09 PM: >>> Dave >>> >>> I agree that this is a big hole/bug. On the other hand, there are folks >> who >>> don't mind/prefer the sloppiness (I have a customer just like that). So, >>> perhaps we could use a property to define the behavior, like: >>> >>> ilikesloppybookkeeping=true/false (tongue in cheek) >>> >>> However, I would be happy to collaborate to get this done. I want >>> requirements and automatic backorders issued for out of stock etc for >> quick >>> ship. I was just about to start work on this. We could modify the >> existing >>> service to look for a property and if it exists, do the better > bookkeeping >> / >>> automatic ordering. >>> >>> This is a hole for me because if my customer has a customer at the > counter >>> and is selling him some stuff and part of it is on back order, he has to >>> exit out of the sales order screen and go to the shipping screen to get > it >>> all done right. It's a pain and will happen 10 times a day for him. >> Fixing >>> the quickship will take care of it. >>> >>> Maybe with the configurable property, the muckity-mucks won't be so >>> reluctant to accept it. >>> >>> Skip >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: David E Jones [mailto:[hidden email]] >>> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:24 PM >>> To: [hidden email] >>> Subject: Re: shipments made for out of stock items >>> >>> >>> >>> On Oct 24, 2007, at 6:41 AM, Dave Tenerowicz wrote: >>> >>>> The more I think about this, it seems inappropriate for an ERP >>>> system to allow this. Why would the quick ship service allow a user >>>> to charge a customers credit card and "ship" a physical product >>>> that the system "knew" was not available? >>> For some users the system doesn't know everything... >>> >>>> Before charging the card, the sales person would want to confirm >>>> that the goods were actually available. Once this was confirmed, it >>>> would take a facility worker 30 seconds to adjust the inventory, >>>> leaving an audit trail etc. >>> Yes, but not everyone wants to use it this way. >>> >>>> To me this seems like a JIRA issue, which should be fixed. >>>> >>>> I'll submit the issue and we'll submit a fix. >>> It will most likely be rejected. >>> >>> -David >>> >>> >>>> Dave Tenerowicz wrote: >>>>> Thank you! >>>>> >>>>> David E Jones wrote: >>>>>> Well, there ya go! >>>>>> >>>>>> The quick ship order stuff doesn't check stock levels... >>>>>> >>>>>> -David >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Oct 23, 2007, at 3:53 PM, Dave Tenerowicz wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Yes, I should have mentioned that we created a new service to >>>>>>> automatically create shipments. It calls quickShipOrder as part >>>>>>> of it's processing. >>>>>>> -Dave >>>>>>> >>>>>>> David E Jones wrote: >>>>>>>> What do you mean by "being created"? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> There isn't really anything that automatically creates >>>>>>>> shipments, unless a human does it through some UI like the >>>>>>>> shipment or packing screens (or a service or something was >>>>>>>> written to automatically do it somehow). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -David >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Oct 22, 2007, at 3:48 PM, Dave Tenerowicz wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> It appears that shipments are being created with out of stock >>>>>>>>> items in an implementation we are doing. I am guessing this is >>>>>>>>> due to product store settings, not a code issue. >>>>>>>>> rev = 545314 >>>>>>>>> check inventory=Y >>>>>>>>> reserve inventory=Y >>>>>>>>> require inventory=N >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> All products are finished goods (no digital or virtual) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks for any help. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Dave Tenerowicz >>>>>>>>> [hidden email] >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Office: 303.493.6727 >>>>>>>>> Mobile 303.906.6116 >>>>>>>>> Fax 303.814.8330 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Visit us at http://www.salmonllc.com >>>>>>>>> For ERP Information: http://www.salmonllc.com/Jsp/vanity/ >>>>>>>>> ERP_CRM.jsp?nav=2&NavBarId=ERP_CRMServices >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Dave Tenerowicz >>>>>>> [hidden email] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Office: 303.493.6727 >>>>>>> Mobile 303.906.6116 >>>>>>> Fax 303.814.8330 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Visit us at http://www.salmonllc.com >>>>>>> For ERP Information: http://www.salmonllc.com/Jsp/vanity/ >>>>>>> ERP_CRM.jsp?nav=2&NavBarId=ERP_CRMServices >>>>>>> >>>> -- >>>> Dave Tenerowicz >>>> [hidden email] >>>> >>>> Office: 303.493.6727 >>>> Mobile 303.906.6116 >>>> Fax 303.814.8330 >>>> >>>> Visit us at http://www.salmonllc.com >>>> For ERP Information: http://www.salmonllc.com/Jsp/vanity/ >>>> ERP_CRM.jsp?nav=2&NavBarId=ERP_CRMServices >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > > |
Re: shipments made for out of stock items
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In reply to this post by SkipDever
On Oct 24, 2007, at 5:22 PM, Skip wrote: > David > > My apologies. I read this comment "It will most likely be > rejected." and > was not amused. I personally should always refrain from responding > to these > and will endeavor to do so in the future. Notice I didn't say "I'll fight it" or "I will reject it". I'm just saying that given other users and varieties of requirements it probably not just slide through, but would be contested and possibly voted on (if discussions broke down). I said what I meant, nothing else implied. > It is obvious to me that most people who currently use Ofbiz like > it the way > it is or it would have long since been changed. However, as the > user base > grows, so will the needs. Rejecting an idea out of hand and > discouraging > people from contributing seems counter-productive just because it > is the way > most people do it. Ummmm... if everyone was happy with things we wouldn't have on the order of 100 commits per week... Yes, things are being constantly reviewed and revised. I didn't reject your idea out of hand, just trying to point out the background and other requirements that are: 1. just as valid as your current ones 2. possibly the requirements of YOUR next client > In this case, if you use properties to control behavior, it doesn't > have to > be either/or. I've spent three or four months now learning Ofbiz > and a month > writing code for it. I have contracts now for three years of work > based on > it. What I write will not be suitable for everyone, but it will be > useful > to many. I can take the time and write it so that it is easily > customizable > by the devs who listen here or just bang it out for the current > customer and > not bother offering it up. > > I would perfer to contribute my work back to the community. I feel > a strong > obligation to do so. easy though... > However, when I read comments like the above I start > asking myself, "whats the point of doing the extra work when it > will not be > accepted?". That is why it is good to make a proposal to the dev mailing list first, get feedback, and then implement. The contributor best practices document has some other things related to this. > Some will say that it can still be found in Jira, but unless > you monitor the Jira religiously, trying to find unaccepted > contributions is > painful. Yes, painful, not a bad word. That's a good part of my time every day... ;) My intent with that time is to protect keep things flowing in a safe direction, avoid changes that are short-term reactions and push people to look at a bigger picture and more generic ways of doing things that still satisfy the requirements at hand. > In my view, you could have encourages contributions by saying "If > it has > wide appeal and does not break existing users, we can consider it" > instead > of "It will most likely be rejected". Yes, perhaps, but what's the fun in that? The idea as you stated it WOULD most likely be rejected. The point, when proposing something, is to open discussion, not complain, attack, and lock it down. Perhaps I was over-blunt... thanks for not giving up. > Just my opinionated jerk self 2 cents. Don't worry, without opinionated jerks OFBiz wouldn't exist (nor would most other open source software, or much of anything else of value in this world... someone has to have a strong enough opinion to push any little or big thing forward). Pretty much everyone getting into OFBiz bumps up against this stuff. If we only had one process that every business followed our lives would be easy. On the other hand, we all have jobs because of client insanity. ;) -David |
smime.p7s (3K)
Re: shipments made for out of stock items
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In reply to this post by BJ Freeman
so to expand on this.
we have many services that do many things. but each customer has a different way they want it done so in products page, a dropdown of toplevel logic service. for Out of Stock. the consultant use the webtools import to put in their top level service, name thisismytoplevelforoutofstock. this service would then call the other services that are here to implement their business logic hope that clears it up. BJ Freeman sent the following on 10/24/2007 4:49 PM: > Ok I guess this comes under business logic > and hopefully we can have may such services that can be configured based > on the product, but assigning these services in the product configuration. > I am trying to think not as this is my requirement, but a best way to > expand ofbiz that lets consultant configure with out changing ofbiz as such. > > and yes, allow to be backward compatible by putting in a default service > with the current business logic > > I think this effort would satisfy everyone and allow for future > expansion with a lot more ease. > > Skip sent the following on 10/24/2007 4:38 PM: >> BJ >> >> I think we are talking about different issues. The flag would only be used >> to determine whether the existing quickship code is run or whether inventory >> checks are done and requirements created for out of stock items when the >> quickship button is pressed. The satisfaction of the requirements, i.e. >> dropshipped or backordered etc. would be determined by other (hopefully >> existing) code. In this way, existing Ofbiz users who want the existing >> behavior would be unaffected and those of us with walk-in customers who >> backorder things have an easier time getting it done. >> >> For my current customer, I actually need to give the purchasing guy both >> options (dropship from multiple suppliers and backorder and ship locally). >> But, I expect this code to be in some other area (haven't looked yet). >> >> Skip >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: BJ Freeman [mailto:[hidden email]] >> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 4:05 PM >> To: [hidden email] >> Subject: Re: shipments made for out of stock items >> >> >> if the inventory supplier is a dropshipper would be the consideration. >> since you can have many suppliers for a product, you could have a >> supplier you order from for your local supplier and a drop shipper as well. >> this would come under a scenario of determining best cost and delivery >> of the product which is part of ERP. >> >> So I don't think a simple flag is the answer. >> >> >> Skip sent the following on 10/24/2007 3:33 PM: >>> BJ >>> >>> No, I have considered only my own needs. However, a property which >>> determines the behavior satisfies both camps. >>> >>> Skip >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: BJ Freeman [mailto:[hidden email]] >>> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 1:27 PM >>> To: [hidden email] >>> Subject: Re: shipments made for out of stock items >>> >>> >>> Skip have you consider the sequence for a dropshipper, and some >>> fulfillment houses. >>> you don't have their inventory. >>> >>> Skip sent the following on 10/24/2007 1:09 PM: >>>> Dave >>>> >>>> I agree that this is a big hole/bug. On the other hand, there are folks >>> who >>>> don't mind/prefer the sloppiness (I have a customer just like that). So, >>>> perhaps we could use a property to define the behavior, like: >>>> >>>> ilikesloppybookkeeping=true/false (tongue in cheek) >>>> >>>> However, I would be happy to collaborate to get this done. I want >>>> requirements and automatic backorders issued for out of stock etc for >>> quick >>>> ship. I was just about to start work on this. We could modify the >>> existing >>>> service to look for a property and if it exists, do the better >> bookkeeping >>> / >>>> automatic ordering. >>>> >>>> This is a hole for me because if my customer has a customer at the >> counter >>>> and is selling him some stuff and part of it is on back order, he has to >>>> exit out of the sales order screen and go to the shipping screen to get >> it >>>> all done right. It's a pain and will happen 10 times a day for him. >>> Fixing >>>> the quickship will take care of it. >>>> >>>> Maybe with the configurable property, the muckity-mucks won't be so >>>> reluctant to accept it. >>>> >>>> Skip >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: David E Jones [mailto:[hidden email]] >>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:24 PM >>>> To: [hidden email] >>>> Subject: Re: shipments made for out of stock items >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Oct 24, 2007, at 6:41 AM, Dave Tenerowicz wrote: >>>> >>>>> The more I think about this, it seems inappropriate for an ERP >>>>> system to allow this. Why would the quick ship service allow a user >>>>> to charge a customers credit card and "ship" a physical product >>>>> that the system "knew" was not available? >>>> For some users the system doesn't know everything... >>>> >>>>> Before charging the card, the sales person would want to confirm >>>>> that the goods were actually available. Once this was confirmed, it >>>>> would take a facility worker 30 seconds to adjust the inventory, >>>>> leaving an audit trail etc. >>>> Yes, but not everyone wants to use it this way. >>>> >>>>> To me this seems like a JIRA issue, which should be fixed. >>>>> >>>>> I'll submit the issue and we'll submit a fix. >>>> It will most likely be rejected. >>>> >>>> -David >>>> >>>> >>>>> Dave Tenerowicz wrote: >>>>>> Thank you! >>>>>> >>>>>> David E Jones wrote: >>>>>>> Well, there ya go! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The quick ship order stuff doesn't check stock levels... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -David >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Oct 23, 2007, at 3:53 PM, Dave Tenerowicz wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Yes, I should have mentioned that we created a new service to >>>>>>>> automatically create shipments. It calls quickShipOrder as part >>>>>>>> of it's processing. >>>>>>>> -Dave >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> David E Jones wrote: >>>>>>>>> What do you mean by "being created"? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> There isn't really anything that automatically creates >>>>>>>>> shipments, unless a human does it through some UI like the >>>>>>>>> shipment or packing screens (or a service or something was >>>>>>>>> written to automatically do it somehow). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -David >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Oct 22, 2007, at 3:48 PM, Dave Tenerowicz wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> It appears that shipments are being created with out of stock >>>>>>>>>> items in an implementation we are doing. I am guessing this is >>>>>>>>>> due to product store settings, not a code issue. >>>>>>>>>> rev = 545314 >>>>>>>>>> check inventory=Y >>>>>>>>>> reserve inventory=Y >>>>>>>>>> require inventory=N >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> All products are finished goods (no digital or virtual) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks for any help. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> Dave Tenerowicz >>>>>>>>>> [hidden email] >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Office: 303.493.6727 >>>>>>>>>> Mobile 303.906.6116 >>>>>>>>>> Fax 303.814.8330 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Visit us at http://www.salmonllc.com >>>>>>>>>> For ERP Information: http://www.salmonllc.com/Jsp/vanity/ >>>>>>>>>> ERP_CRM.jsp?nav=2&NavBarId=ERP_CRMServices >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Dave Tenerowicz >>>>>>>> [hidden email] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Office: 303.493.6727 >>>>>>>> Mobile 303.906.6116 >>>>>>>> Fax 303.814.8330 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Visit us at http://www.salmonllc.com >>>>>>>> For ERP Information: http://www.salmonllc.com/Jsp/vanity/ >>>>>>>> ERP_CRM.jsp?nav=2&NavBarId=ERP_CRMServices >>>>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Dave Tenerowicz >>>>> [hidden email] >>>>> >>>>> Office: 303.493.6727 >>>>> Mobile 303.906.6116 >>>>> Fax 303.814.8330 >>>>> >>>>> Visit us at http://www.salmonllc.com >>>>> For ERP Information: http://www.salmonllc.com/Jsp/vanity/ >>>>> ERP_CRM.jsp?nav=2&NavBarId=ERP_CRMServices >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > |
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In reply to this post by BJ Freeman
BJ
This logic gets very complicated very quickly. You can throw into the mix two dropship suppliers with different prices and shipping times. Maybe the customer wants one and it comes in a box of 10. Its even more complicated if you require a 35% margin and getting that margin requires you to order a hundred. It gets even more complicated still if.... The application I am converting to Ofbiz took me two years to get right in this area ( at least right from the clients perspective). Two years of tweeking that it is. I ended up with three scenerios, case 1 where I knew for sure what to do. Case 2 where I was pretty sure what to do, and case three where I didn't have a clue. I ended up doing case 1 without operator intervention, and presenting 2 separate lists of the last 2 cases to a human operator to approve. This has worked in 21 installations of this application for over 15 years now and is one of the few things I don't get complaints about or requests for changes. Skip -----Original Message----- From: BJ Freeman [mailto:[hidden email]] Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 4:36 PM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: shipments made for out of stock items Ok lets take it from the item issuance. here is the scenario. one product two suppliers one used to refill local stock one one to dropship. so you may have local stock or it may be ordered from the supplier that refills local stock. and under certain circumstances the dropshipper is used. now you may check inventory which means look at any orders pending and on determining that the delivery date is beyond the ship date to the customer may opt to send the order to the Dropshipper. so putting in parms like use local inventory if with in so many days of shipping date to customer or if available use dropship under any circumstance to satisfy back orders. Not sure if this goes with the product or inventory in a facility I was thinking of having a place in the product to assign a service that would best suit the configuration for a client. this would allow many scenarios with out really changing the programming of ofbiz. David E Jones sent the following on 10/24/2007 4:19 PM: > > I'm not sure I totally understand what you're looking at BJ... > > This may very well make sense as a configuration flag, either for a > ProductStore or for a Facility, so specify whether or not shipping > without inventory in stock is allowed. > > The Quick Ship Entire Order service would be affected by this, as would > certain other things. The best place to implement it is probably in the > issue order item to shipment service (the one that creates the > ItemIssuance records). That's what actually takes thing out of stock (ie > does the stock out). > > -David > > > On Oct 24, 2007, at 5:05 PM, BJ Freeman wrote: > >> if the inventory supplier is a dropshipper would be the consideration. >> since you can have many suppliers for a product, you could have a >> supplier you order from for your local supplier and a drop shipper as >> well. >> this would come under a scenario of determining best cost and delivery >> of the product which is part of ERP. >> >> So I don't think a simple flag is the answer. >> >> >> Skip sent the following on 10/24/2007 3:33 PM: >>> BJ >>> >>> No, I have considered only my own needs. However, a property which >>> determines the behavior satisfies both camps. >>> >>> Skip >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: BJ Freeman [mailto:[hidden email]] >>> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 1:27 PM >>> To: [hidden email] >>> Subject: Re: shipments made for out of stock items >>> >>> >>> Skip have you consider the sequence for a dropshipper, and some >>> fulfillment houses. >>> you don't have their inventory. >>> >>> Skip sent the following on 10/24/2007 1:09 PM: >>>> Dave >>>> >>>> I agree that this is a big hole/bug. On the other hand, there are >>>> folks >>> who >>>> don't mind/prefer the sloppiness (I have a customer just like >>>> that). So, >>>> perhaps we could use a property to define the behavior, like: >>>> >>>> ilikesloppybookkeeping=true/false (tongue in cheek) >>>> >>>> However, I would be happy to collaborate to get this done. I want >>>> requirements and automatic backorders issued for out of stock etc for >>> quick >>>> ship. I was just about to start work on this. We could modify the >>> existing >>>> service to look for a property and if it exists, do the better >>>> bookkeeping >>> / >>>> automatic ordering. >>>> >>>> This is a hole for me because if my customer has a customer at the >>>> counter >>>> and is selling him some stuff and part of it is on back order, he >>>> has to >>>> exit out of the sales order screen and go to the shipping screen to >>>> get it >>>> all done right. It's a pain and will happen 10 times a day for him. >>> Fixing >>>> the quickship will take care of it. >>>> >>>> Maybe with the configurable property, the muckity-mucks won't be so >>>> reluctant to accept it. >>>> >>>> Skip >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: David E Jones [mailto:[hidden email]] >>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:24 PM >>>> To: [hidden email] >>>> Subject: Re: shipments made for out of stock items >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Oct 24, 2007, at 6:41 AM, Dave Tenerowicz wrote: >>>> >>>>> The more I think about this, it seems inappropriate for an ERP >>>>> system to allow this. Why would the quick ship service allow a user >>>>> to charge a customers credit card and "ship" a physical product >>>>> that the system "knew" was not available? >>>> For some users the system doesn't know everything... >>>> >>>>> Before charging the card, the sales person would want to confirm >>>>> that the goods were actually available. Once this was confirmed, it >>>>> would take a facility worker 30 seconds to adjust the inventory, >>>>> leaving an audit trail etc. >>>> Yes, but not everyone wants to use it this way. >>>> >>>>> To me this seems like a JIRA issue, which should be fixed. >>>>> >>>>> I'll submit the issue and we'll submit a fix. >>>> It will most likely be rejected. >>>> >>>> -David >>>> >>>> >>>>> Dave Tenerowicz wrote: >>>>>> Thank you! >>>>>> >>>>>> David E Jones wrote: >>>>>>> Well, there ya go! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The quick ship order stuff doesn't check stock levels... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -David >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Oct 23, 2007, at 3:53 PM, Dave Tenerowicz wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Yes, I should have mentioned that we created a new service to >>>>>>>> automatically create shipments. It calls quickShipOrder as part >>>>>>>> of it's processing. >>>>>>>> -Dave >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> David E Jones wrote: >>>>>>>>> What do you mean by "being created"? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> There isn't really anything that automatically creates >>>>>>>>> shipments, unless a human does it through some UI like the >>>>>>>>> shipment or packing screens (or a service or something was >>>>>>>>> written to automatically do it somehow). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -David >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Oct 22, 2007, at 3:48 PM, Dave Tenerowicz wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> It appears that shipments are being created with out of stock >>>>>>>>>> items in an implementation we are doing. I am guessing this is >>>>>>>>>> due to product store settings, not a code issue. >>>>>>>>>> rev = 545314 >>>>>>>>>> check inventory=Y >>>>>>>>>> reserve inventory=Y >>>>>>>>>> require inventory=N >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> All products are finished goods (no digital or virtual) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks for any help. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> Dave Tenerowicz >>>>>>>>>> [hidden email] >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Office: 303.493.6727 >>>>>>>>>> Mobile 303.906.6116 >>>>>>>>>> Fax 303.814.8330 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Visit us at http://www.salmonllc.com >>>>>>>>>> For ERP Information: http://www.salmonllc.com/Jsp/vanity/ >>>>>>>>>> ERP_CRM.jsp?nav=2&NavBarId=ERP_CRMServices >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Dave Tenerowicz >>>>>>>> [hidden email] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Office: 303.493.6727 >>>>>>>> Mobile 303.906.6116 >>>>>>>> Fax 303.814.8330 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Visit us at http://www.salmonllc.com >>>>>>>> For ERP Information: http://www.salmonllc.com/Jsp/vanity/ >>>>>>>> ERP_CRM.jsp?nav=2&NavBarId=ERP_CRMServices >>>>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Dave Tenerowicz >>>>> [hidden email] >>>>> >>>>> Office: 303.493.6727 >>>>> Mobile 303.906.6116 >>>>> Fax 303.814.8330 >>>>> >>>>> Visit us at http://www.salmonllc.com >>>>> For ERP Information: http://www.salmonllc.com/Jsp/vanity/ >>>>> ERP_CRM.jsp?nav=2&NavBarId=ERP_CRMServices >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> > |
Re: shipments made for out of stock items
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skip I have implemented similar in the service I provide on line for
webstores. been doing it since 1998. see my other email. Skip sent the following on 10/24/2007 5:04 PM: > BJ > > This logic gets very complicated very quickly. You can throw into the mix > two dropship suppliers with different prices and shipping times. Maybe the > customer wants one and it comes in a box of 10. Its even more complicated > if you require a 35% margin and getting that margin requires you to order a > hundred. It gets even more complicated still if.... > > The application I am converting to Ofbiz took me two years to get right in > this area ( at least right from the clients perspective). Two years of > tweeking that it is. I ended up with three scenerios, case 1 where I knew > for sure what to do. Case 2 where I was pretty sure what to do, and case > three where I didn't have a clue. > > I ended up doing case 1 without operator intervention, and presenting 2 > separate lists of the last 2 cases to a human operator to approve. This has > worked in 21 installations of this application for over 15 years now and is > one of the few things I don't get complaints about or requests for changes. > > Skip > > > -----Original Message----- > From: BJ Freeman [mailto:[hidden email]] > Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 4:36 PM > To: [hidden email] > Subject: Re: shipments made for out of stock items > > > Ok lets take it from the item issuance. > here is the scenario. > one product > two suppliers > one used to refill local stock > one one to dropship. > > so you may have local stock or it may be ordered from the supplier that > refills local stock. > and under certain circumstances the dropshipper is used. > > now you may check inventory which means look at any orders pending > and on determining that the delivery date is beyond the ship date to the > customer may opt to send the order to the Dropshipper. > > so putting in parms like use local inventory if with in so many days of > shipping date to customer > or if available use dropship under any circumstance to satisfy back orders. > > Not sure if this goes with the product or inventory in a facility > I was thinking of having a place in the product to assign a service that > would best suit the configuration for a client. > > this would allow many scenarios with out really changing the programming > of ofbiz. > > > David E Jones sent the following on 10/24/2007 4:19 PM: >> I'm not sure I totally understand what you're looking at BJ... >> >> This may very well make sense as a configuration flag, either for a >> ProductStore or for a Facility, so specify whether or not shipping >> without inventory in stock is allowed. >> >> The Quick Ship Entire Order service would be affected by this, as would >> certain other things. The best place to implement it is probably in the >> issue order item to shipment service (the one that creates the >> ItemIssuance records). That's what actually takes thing out of stock (ie >> does the stock out). >> >> -David >> >> >> On Oct 24, 2007, at 5:05 PM, BJ Freeman wrote: >> >>> if the inventory supplier is a dropshipper would be the consideration. >>> since you can have many suppliers for a product, you could have a >>> supplier you order from for your local supplier and a drop shipper as >>> well. >>> this would come under a scenario of determining best cost and delivery >>> of the product which is part of ERP. >>> >>> So I don't think a simple flag is the answer. >>> >>> >>> Skip sent the following on 10/24/2007 3:33 PM: >>>> BJ >>>> >>>> No, I have considered only my own needs. However, a property which >>>> determines the behavior satisfies both camps. >>>> >>>> Skip >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: BJ Freeman [mailto:[hidden email]] >>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 1:27 PM >>>> To: [hidden email] >>>> Subject: Re: shipments made for out of stock items >>>> >>>> >>>> Skip have you consider the sequence for a dropshipper, and some >>>> fulfillment houses. >>>> you don't have their inventory. >>>> >>>> Skip sent the following on 10/24/2007 1:09 PM: >>>>> Dave >>>>> >>>>> I agree that this is a big hole/bug. On the other hand, there are >>>>> folks >>>> who >>>>> don't mind/prefer the sloppiness (I have a customer just like >>>>> that). So, >>>>> perhaps we could use a property to define the behavior, like: >>>>> >>>>> ilikesloppybookkeeping=true/false (tongue in cheek) >>>>> >>>>> However, I would be happy to collaborate to get this done. I want >>>>> requirements and automatic backorders issued for out of stock etc for >>>> quick >>>>> ship. I was just about to start work on this. We could modify the >>>> existing >>>>> service to look for a property and if it exists, do the better >>>>> bookkeeping >>>> / >>>>> automatic ordering. >>>>> >>>>> This is a hole for me because if my customer has a customer at the >>>>> counter >>>>> and is selling him some stuff and part of it is on back order, he >>>>> has to >>>>> exit out of the sales order screen and go to the shipping screen to >>>>> get it >>>>> all done right. It's a pain and will happen 10 times a day for him. >>>> Fixing >>>>> the quickship will take care of it. >>>>> >>>>> Maybe with the configurable property, the muckity-mucks won't be so >>>>> reluctant to accept it. >>>>> >>>>> Skip >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: David E Jones [mailto:[hidden email]] >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:24 PM >>>>> To: [hidden email] >>>>> Subject: Re: shipments made for out of stock items >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Oct 24, 2007, at 6:41 AM, Dave Tenerowicz wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> The more I think about this, it seems inappropriate for an ERP >>>>>> system to allow this. Why would the quick ship service allow a user >>>>>> to charge a customers credit card and "ship" a physical product >>>>>> that the system "knew" was not available? >>>>> For some users the system doesn't know everything... >>>>> >>>>>> Before charging the card, the sales person would want to confirm >>>>>> that the goods were actually available. Once this was confirmed, it >>>>>> would take a facility worker 30 seconds to adjust the inventory, >>>>>> leaving an audit trail etc. >>>>> Yes, but not everyone wants to use it this way. >>>>> >>>>>> To me this seems like a JIRA issue, which should be fixed. >>>>>> >>>>>> I'll submit the issue and we'll submit a fix. >>>>> It will most likely be rejected. >>>>> >>>>> -David >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Dave Tenerowicz wrote: >>>>>>> Thank you! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> David E Jones wrote: >>>>>>>> Well, there ya go! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The quick ship order stuff doesn't check stock levels... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -David >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Oct 23, 2007, at 3:53 PM, Dave Tenerowicz wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Yes, I should have mentioned that we created a new service to >>>>>>>>> automatically create shipments. It calls quickShipOrder as part >>>>>>>>> of it's processing. >>>>>>>>> -Dave >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> David E Jones wrote: >>>>>>>>>> What do you mean by "being created"? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> There isn't really anything that automatically creates >>>>>>>>>> shipments, unless a human does it through some UI like the >>>>>>>>>> shipment or packing screens (or a service or something was >>>>>>>>>> written to automatically do it somehow). >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -David >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Oct 22, 2007, at 3:48 PM, Dave Tenerowicz wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> It appears that shipments are being created with out of stock >>>>>>>>>>> items in an implementation we are doing. I am guessing this is >>>>>>>>>>> due to product store settings, not a code issue. >>>>>>>>>>> rev = 545314 >>>>>>>>>>> check inventory=Y >>>>>>>>>>> reserve inventory=Y >>>>>>>>>>> require inventory=N >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> All products are finished goods (no digital or virtual) >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for any help. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> Dave Tenerowicz >>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email] >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Office: 303.493.6727 >>>>>>>>>>> Mobile 303.906.6116 >>>>>>>>>>> Fax 303.814.8330 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Visit us at http://www.salmonllc.com >>>>>>>>>>> For ERP Information: http://www.salmonllc.com/Jsp/vanity/ >>>>>>>>>>> ERP_CRM.jsp?nav=2&NavBarId=ERP_CRMServices >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Dave Tenerowicz >>>>>>>>> [hidden email] >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Office: 303.493.6727 >>>>>>>>> Mobile 303.906.6116 >>>>>>>>> Fax 303.814.8330 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Visit us at http://www.salmonllc.com >>>>>>>>> For ERP Information: http://www.salmonllc.com/Jsp/vanity/ >>>>>>>>> ERP_CRM.jsp?nav=2&NavBarId=ERP_CRMServices >>>>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Dave Tenerowicz >>>>>> [hidden email] >>>>>> >>>>>> Office: 303.493.6727 >>>>>> Mobile 303.906.6116 >>>>>> Fax 303.814.8330 >>>>>> >>>>>> Visit us at http://www.salmonllc.com >>>>>> For ERP Information: http://www.salmonllc.com/Jsp/vanity/ >>>>>> ERP_CRM.jsp?nav=2&NavBarId=ERP_CRMServices >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> > > > > |
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In reply to this post by Dave Tenerowicz
Dave
This is a requirement for me too as well as EOQ purchasing, and I am sure for all the rest of my old customers that I approach after the current customer is mostly happy. I have a couple more weeks of tweeking to do in sales order entry and billing accounts and then I'll be doing this. Skip -----Original Message----- From: Dave Tenerowicz [mailto:[hidden email]] Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 4:44 PM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: shipments made for out of stock items Skip- Agree. I was not suggesting that a fix would be unconditional. Rather, something along the lines you suggest here- a conditional property that can be checked to determine whether or not stock should be checked before issuing. For this particular client this is an absolute requirement. In fact, this has been an client expectation / requirement for most of the ERP implementations I have done (most not with OFB). -Dave Skip wrote: > Dave > > I agree that this is a big hole/bug. On the other hand, there are folks who > don't mind/prefer the sloppiness (I have a customer just like that). So, > perhaps we could use a property to define the behavior, like: > > ilikesloppybookkeeping=true/false (tongue in cheek) > > However, I would be happy to collaborate to get this done. I want > requirements and automatic backorders issued for out of stock etc for quick > ship. I was just about to start work on this. We could modify the existing > service to look for a property and if it exists, do the better bookkeeping / > automatic ordering. > > This is a hole for me because if my customer has a customer at the counter > and is selling him some stuff and part of it is on back order, he has to > exit out of the sales order screen and go to the shipping screen to get it > all done right. It's a pain and will happen 10 times a day for him. Fixing > the quickship will take care of it. > > Maybe with the configurable property, the muckity-mucks won't be so > reluctant to accept it. > > Skip > > -----Original Message----- > From: David E Jones [mailto:[hidden email]] > Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:24 PM > To: [hidden email] > Subject: Re: shipments made for out of stock items > > > > On Oct 24, 2007, at 6:41 AM, Dave Tenerowicz wrote: > > >> The more I think about this, it seems inappropriate for an ERP >> system to allow this. Why would the quick ship service allow a user >> to charge a customers credit card and "ship" a physical product >> that the system "knew" was not available? >> > > For some users the system doesn't know everything... > > >> Before charging the card, the sales person would want to confirm >> that the goods were actually available. Once this was confirmed, it >> would take a facility worker 30 seconds to adjust the inventory, >> leaving an audit trail etc. >> > > Yes, but not everyone wants to use it this way. > > >> To me this seems like a JIRA issue, which should be fixed. >> >> I'll submit the issue and we'll submit a fix. >> > > It will most likely be rejected. > > -David > > > >> Dave Tenerowicz wrote: >> >>> Thank you! >>> >>> David E Jones wrote: >>> >>>> Well, there ya go! >>>> >>>> The quick ship order stuff doesn't check stock levels... >>>> >>>> -David >>>> >>>> >>>> On Oct 23, 2007, at 3:53 PM, Dave Tenerowicz wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Yes, I should have mentioned that we created a new service to >>>>> automatically create shipments. It calls quickShipOrder as part >>>>> of it's processing. >>>>> -Dave >>>>> >>>>> David E Jones wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> What do you mean by "being created"? >>>>>> >>>>>> There isn't really anything that automatically creates >>>>>> shipments, unless a human does it through some UI like the >>>>>> shipment or packing screens (or a service or something was >>>>>> written to automatically do it somehow). >>>>>> >>>>>> -David >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Oct 22, 2007, at 3:48 PM, Dave Tenerowicz wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> It appears that shipments are being created with out of stock >>>>>>> items in an implementation we are doing. I am guessing this is >>>>>>> due to product store settings, not a code issue. >>>>>>> rev = 545314 >>>>>>> check inventory=Y >>>>>>> reserve inventory=Y >>>>>>> require inventory=N >>>>>>> >>>>>>> All products are finished goods (no digital or virtual) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks for any help. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Dave Tenerowicz >>>>>>> [hidden email] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Office: 303.493.6727 >>>>>>> Mobile 303.906.6116 >>>>>>> Fax 303.814.8330 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Visit us at http://www.salmonllc.com >>>>>>> For ERP Information: http://www.salmonllc.com/Jsp/vanity/ >>>>>>> ERP_CRM.jsp?nav=2&NavBarId=ERP_CRMServices >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Dave Tenerowicz >>>>> [hidden email] >>>>> >>>>> Office: 303.493.6727 >>>>> Mobile 303.906.6116 >>>>> Fax 303.814.8330 >>>>> >>>>> Visit us at http://www.salmonllc.com >>>>> For ERP Information: http://www.salmonllc.com/Jsp/vanity/ >>>>> ERP_CRM.jsp?nav=2&NavBarId=ERP_CRMServices >>>>> >>>>> >> -- >> Dave Tenerowicz >> [hidden email] >> >> Office: 303.493.6727 >> Mobile 303.906.6116 >> Fax 303.814.8330 >> >> Visit us at http://www.salmonllc.com >> For ERP Information: http://www.salmonllc.com/Jsp/vanity/ >> ERP_CRM.jsp?nav=2&NavBarId=ERP_CRMServices >> >> > > > > > -- Dave Tenerowicz [hidden email] Office: 303.493.6727 Mobile 303.906.6116 Fax 303.814.8330 Visit us at http://www.salmonllc.com For ERP Information: http://www.salmonllc.com/Jsp/vanity/ERP_CRM.jsp?nav=2&NavBarId=ERP_CRMServic es |
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In reply to this post by BJ Freeman
Wanna share the code?
-----Original Message----- From: BJ Freeman [mailto:[hidden email]] Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 5:06 PM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: shipments made for out of stock items skip I have implemented similar in the service I provide on line for webstores. been doing it since 1998. see my other email. Skip sent the following on 10/24/2007 5:04 PM: > BJ > > This logic gets very complicated very quickly. You can throw into the mix > two dropship suppliers with different prices and shipping times. Maybe the > customer wants one and it comes in a box of 10. Its even more complicated > if you require a 35% margin and getting that margin requires you to order a > hundred. It gets even more complicated still if.... > > The application I am converting to Ofbiz took me two years to get right in > this area ( at least right from the clients perspective). Two years of > tweeking that it is. I ended up with three scenerios, case 1 where I knew > for sure what to do. Case 2 where I was pretty sure what to do, and case > three where I didn't have a clue. > > I ended up doing case 1 without operator intervention, and presenting 2 > separate lists of the last 2 cases to a human operator to approve. This > worked in 21 installations of this application for over 15 years now and is > one of the few things I don't get complaints about or requests for changes. > > Skip > > > -----Original Message----- > From: BJ Freeman [mailto:[hidden email]] > Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 4:36 PM > To: [hidden email] > Subject: Re: shipments made for out of stock items > > > Ok lets take it from the item issuance. > here is the scenario. > one product > two suppliers > one used to refill local stock > one one to dropship. > > so you may have local stock or it may be ordered from the supplier that > refills local stock. > and under certain circumstances the dropshipper is used. > > now you may check inventory which means look at any orders pending > and on determining that the delivery date is beyond the ship date to the > customer may opt to send the order to the Dropshipper. > > so putting in parms like use local inventory if with in so many days of > shipping date to customer > or if available use dropship under any circumstance to satisfy back > > Not sure if this goes with the product or inventory in a facility > I was thinking of having a place in the product to assign a service that > would best suit the configuration for a client. > > this would allow many scenarios with out really changing the programming > of ofbiz. > > > David E Jones sent the following on 10/24/2007 4:19 PM: >> I'm not sure I totally understand what you're looking at BJ... >> >> This may very well make sense as a configuration flag, either for a >> ProductStore or for a Facility, so specify whether or not shipping >> without inventory in stock is allowed. >> >> The Quick Ship Entire Order service would be affected by this, as would >> certain other things. The best place to implement it is probably in the >> issue order item to shipment service (the one that creates the >> ItemIssuance records). That's what actually takes thing out of stock (ie >> does the stock out). >> >> -David >> >> >> On Oct 24, 2007, at 5:05 PM, BJ Freeman wrote: >> >>> if the inventory supplier is a dropshipper would be the consideration. >>> since you can have many suppliers for a product, you could have a >>> supplier you order from for your local supplier and a drop shipper as >>> well. >>> this would come under a scenario of determining best cost and delivery >>> of the product which is part of ERP. >>> >>> So I don't think a simple flag is the answer. >>> >>> >>> Skip sent the following on 10/24/2007 3:33 PM: >>>> BJ >>>> >>>> No, I have considered only my own needs. However, a property which >>>> determines the behavior satisfies both camps. >>>> >>>> Skip >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: BJ Freeman [mailto:[hidden email]] >>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 1:27 PM >>>> To: [hidden email] >>>> Subject: Re: shipments made for out of stock items >>>> >>>> >>>> Skip have you consider the sequence for a dropshipper, and some >>>> fulfillment houses. >>>> you don't have their inventory. >>>> >>>> Skip sent the following on 10/24/2007 1:09 PM: >>>>> Dave >>>>> >>>>> I agree that this is a big hole/bug. On the other hand, there are >>>>> folks >>>> who >>>>> don't mind/prefer the sloppiness (I have a customer just like >>>>> that). So, >>>>> perhaps we could use a property to define the behavior, like: >>>>> >>>>> ilikesloppybookkeeping=true/false (tongue in cheek) >>>>> >>>>> However, I would be happy to collaborate to get this done. I want >>>>> requirements and automatic backorders issued for out of stock etc for >>>> quick >>>>> ship. I was just about to start work on this. We could modify the >>>> existing >>>>> service to look for a property and if it exists, do the better >>>>> bookkeeping >>>> / >>>>> automatic ordering. >>>>> >>>>> This is a hole for me because if my customer has a customer at the >>>>> counter >>>>> and is selling him some stuff and part of it is on back order, he >>>>> has to >>>>> exit out of the sales order screen and go to the shipping screen to >>>>> get it >>>>> all done right. It's a pain and will happen 10 times a day for him. >>>> Fixing >>>>> the quickship will take care of it. >>>>> >>>>> Maybe with the configurable property, the muckity-mucks won't be so >>>>> reluctant to accept it. >>>>> >>>>> Skip >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: David E Jones [mailto:[hidden email]] >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:24 PM >>>>> To: [hidden email] >>>>> Subject: Re: shipments made for out of stock items >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Oct 24, 2007, at 6:41 AM, Dave Tenerowicz wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> The more I think about this, it seems inappropriate for an ERP >>>>>> system to allow this. Why would the quick ship service allow a user >>>>>> to charge a customers credit card and "ship" a physical product >>>>>> that the system "knew" was not available? >>>>> For some users the system doesn't know everything... >>>>> >>>>>> Before charging the card, the sales person would want to confirm >>>>>> that the goods were actually available. Once this was confirmed, it >>>>>> would take a facility worker 30 seconds to adjust the inventory, >>>>>> leaving an audit trail etc. >>>>> Yes, but not everyone wants to use it this way. >>>>> >>>>>> To me this seems like a JIRA issue, which should be fixed. >>>>>> >>>>>> I'll submit the issue and we'll submit a fix. >>>>> It will most likely be rejected. >>>>> >>>>> -David >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Dave Tenerowicz wrote: >>>>>>> Thank you! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> David E Jones wrote: >>>>>>>> Well, there ya go! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The quick ship order stuff doesn't check stock levels... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -David >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Oct 23, 2007, at 3:53 PM, Dave Tenerowicz wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Yes, I should have mentioned that we created a new service to >>>>>>>>> automatically create shipments. It calls quickShipOrder as part >>>>>>>>> of it's processing. >>>>>>>>> -Dave >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> David E Jones wrote: >>>>>>>>>> What do you mean by "being created"? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> There isn't really anything that automatically creates >>>>>>>>>> shipments, unless a human does it through some UI like the >>>>>>>>>> shipment or packing screens (or a service or something was >>>>>>>>>> written to automatically do it somehow). >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -David >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Oct 22, 2007, at 3:48 PM, Dave Tenerowicz wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> It appears that shipments are being created with out of stock >>>>>>>>>>> items in an implementation we are doing. I am guessing this is >>>>>>>>>>> due to product store settings, not a code issue. >>>>>>>>>>> rev = 545314 >>>>>>>>>>> check inventory=Y >>>>>>>>>>> reserve inventory=Y >>>>>>>>>>> require inventory=N >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> All products are finished goods (no digital or virtual) >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for any help. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> Dave Tenerowicz >>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email] >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Office: 303.493.6727 >>>>>>>>>>> Mobile 303.906.6116 >>>>>>>>>>> Fax 303.814.8330 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Visit us at http://www.salmonllc.com >>>>>>>>>>> For ERP Information: http://www.salmonllc.com/Jsp/vanity/ >>>>>>>>>>> ERP_CRM.jsp?nav=2&NavBarId=ERP_CRMServices >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Dave Tenerowicz >>>>>>>>> [hidden email] >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Office: 303.493.6727 >>>>>>>>> Mobile 303.906.6116 >>>>>>>>> Fax 303.814.8330 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Visit us at http://www.salmonllc.com >>>>>>>>> For ERP Information: http://www.salmonllc.com/Jsp/vanity/ >>>>>>>>> ERP_CRM.jsp?nav=2&NavBarId=ERP_CRMServices >>>>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Dave Tenerowicz >>>>>> [hidden email] >>>>>> >>>>>> Office: 303.493.6727 >>>>>> Mobile 303.906.6116 >>>>>> Fax 303.814.8330 >>>>>> >>>>>> Visit us at http://www.salmonllc.com >>>>>> For ERP Information: http://www.salmonllc.com/Jsp/vanity/ >>>>>> ERP_CRM.jsp?nav=2&NavBarId=ERP_CRMServices >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> > > > > |
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In reply to this post by BJ Freeman
BJ
This is a really good idea, but too fine grained for me. Perhaps we could have a similiar drop down for the store page and then a ? "Want to add this to all products?". I can forsee the need to have variances for some products, but most would use one method. Maybe a service you could run to set all products to one service and then go and individually do the ones that varied? The more I think about this per-product service, the more I like it. Skip -----Original Message----- From: BJ Freeman [mailto:[hidden email]] Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 5:04 PM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: shipments made for out of stock items so to expand on this. we have many services that do many things. but each customer has a different way they want it done so in products page, a dropdown of toplevel logic service. for Out of Stock. the consultant use the webtools import to put in their top level service, name thisismytoplevelforoutofstock. this service would then call the other services that are here to implement their business logic hope that clears it up. BJ Freeman sent the following on 10/24/2007 4:49 PM: > Ok I guess this comes under business logic > and hopefully we can have may such services that can be configured based > on the product, but assigning these services in the product configuration. > I am trying to think not as this is my requirement, but a best way to > expand ofbiz that lets consultant configure with out changing ofbiz as such. > > and yes, allow to be backward compatible by putting in a default service > with the current business logic > > I think this effort would satisfy everyone and allow for future > expansion with a lot more ease. > > Skip sent the following on 10/24/2007 4:38 PM: >> BJ >> >> I think we are talking about different issues. The flag would only be >> to determine whether the existing quickship code is run or whether inventory >> checks are done and requirements created for out of stock items when the >> quickship button is pressed. The satisfaction of the requirements, i.e. >> dropshipped or backordered etc. would be determined by other (hopefully >> existing) code. In this way, existing Ofbiz users who want the existing >> behavior would be unaffected and those of us with walk-in customers who >> backorder things have an easier time getting it done. >> >> For my current customer, I actually need to give the purchasing guy both >> options (dropship from multiple suppliers and backorder and ship locally). >> But, I expect this code to be in some other area (haven't looked yet). >> >> Skip >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: BJ Freeman [mailto:[hidden email]] >> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 4:05 PM >> To: [hidden email] >> Subject: Re: shipments made for out of stock items >> >> >> if the inventory supplier is a dropshipper would be the consideration. >> since you can have many suppliers for a product, you could have a >> supplier you order from for your local supplier and a drop shipper as >> this would come under a scenario of determining best cost and delivery >> of the product which is part of ERP. >> >> So I don't think a simple flag is the answer. >> >> >> Skip sent the following on 10/24/2007 3:33 PM: >>> BJ >>> >>> No, I have considered only my own needs. However, a property which >>> determines the behavior satisfies both camps. >>> >>> Skip >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: BJ Freeman [mailto:[hidden email]] >>> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 1:27 PM >>> To: [hidden email] >>> Subject: Re: shipments made for out of stock items >>> >>> >>> Skip have you consider the sequence for a dropshipper, and some >>> fulfillment houses. >>> you don't have their inventory. >>> >>> Skip sent the following on 10/24/2007 1:09 PM: >>>> Dave >>>> >>>> I agree that this is a big hole/bug. On the other hand, there are >>> who >>>> don't mind/prefer the sloppiness (I have a customer just like that). So, >>>> perhaps we could use a property to define the behavior, like: >>>> >>>> ilikesloppybookkeeping=true/false (tongue in cheek) >>>> >>>> However, I would be happy to collaborate to get this done. I want >>>> requirements and automatic backorders issued for out of stock etc for >>> quick >>>> ship. I was just about to start work on this. We could modify the >>> existing >>>> service to look for a property and if it exists, do the better >> bookkeeping >>> / >>>> automatic ordering. >>>> >>>> This is a hole for me because if my customer has a customer at the >> counter >>>> and is selling him some stuff and part of it is on back order, he has >>>> exit out of the sales order screen and go to the shipping screen to get >> it >>>> all done right. It's a pain and will happen 10 times a day for him. >>> Fixing >>>> the quickship will take care of it. >>>> >>>> Maybe with the configurable property, the muckity-mucks won't be so >>>> reluctant to accept it. >>>> >>>> Skip >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: David E Jones [mailto:[hidden email]] >>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:24 PM >>>> To: [hidden email] >>>> Subject: Re: shipments made for out of stock items >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Oct 24, 2007, at 6:41 AM, Dave Tenerowicz wrote: >>>> >>>>> The more I think about this, it seems inappropriate for an ERP >>>>> system to allow this. Why would the quick ship service allow a user >>>>> to charge a customers credit card and "ship" a physical product >>>>> that the system "knew" was not available? >>>> For some users the system doesn't know everything... >>>> >>>>> Before charging the card, the sales person would want to confirm >>>>> that the goods were actually available. Once this was confirmed, it >>>>> would take a facility worker 30 seconds to adjust the inventory, >>>>> leaving an audit trail etc. >>>> Yes, but not everyone wants to use it this way. >>>> >>>>> To me this seems like a JIRA issue, which should be fixed. >>>>> >>>>> I'll submit the issue and we'll submit a fix. >>>> It will most likely be rejected. >>>> >>>> -David >>>> >>>> >>>>> Dave Tenerowicz wrote: >>>>>> Thank you! >>>>>> >>>>>> David E Jones wrote: >>>>>>> Well, there ya go! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The quick ship order stuff doesn't check stock levels... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -David >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Oct 23, 2007, at 3:53 PM, Dave Tenerowicz wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Yes, I should have mentioned that we created a new service to >>>>>>>> automatically create shipments. It calls quickShipOrder as part >>>>>>>> of it's processing. >>>>>>>> -Dave >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> David E Jones wrote: >>>>>>>>> What do you mean by "being created"? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> There isn't really anything that automatically creates >>>>>>>>> shipments, unless a human does it through some UI like the >>>>>>>>> shipment or packing screens (or a service or something was >>>>>>>>> written to automatically do it somehow). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -David >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Oct 22, 2007, at 3:48 PM, Dave Tenerowicz wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> It appears that shipments are being created with out of stock >>>>>>>>>> items in an implementation we are doing. I am guessing this is >>>>>>>>>> due to product store settings, not a code issue. >>>>>>>>>> rev = 545314 >>>>>>>>>> check inventory=Y >>>>>>>>>> reserve inventory=Y >>>>>>>>>> require inventory=N >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> All products are finished goods (no digital or virtual) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks for any help. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> Dave Tenerowicz >>>>>>>>>> [hidden email] >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Office: 303.493.6727 >>>>>>>>>> Mobile 303.906.6116 >>>>>>>>>> Fax 303.814.8330 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Visit us at http://www.salmonllc.com >>>>>>>>>> For ERP Information: http://www.salmonllc.com/Jsp/vanity/ >>>>>>>>>> ERP_CRM.jsp?nav=2&NavBarId=ERP_CRMServices >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Dave Tenerowicz >>>>>>>> [hidden email] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Office: 303.493.6727 >>>>>>>> Mobile 303.906.6116 >>>>>>>> Fax 303.814.8330 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Visit us at http://www.salmonllc.com >>>>>>>> For ERP Information: http://www.salmonllc.com/Jsp/vanity/ >>>>>>>> ERP_CRM.jsp?nav=2&NavBarId=ERP_CRMServices >>>>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Dave Tenerowicz >>>>> [hidden email] >>>>> >>>>> Office: 303.493.6727 >>>>> Mobile 303.906.6116 >>>>> Fax 303.814.8330 >>>>> >>>>> Visit us at http://www.salmonllc.com >>>>> For ERP Information: http://www.salmonllc.com/Jsp/vanity/ >>>>> ERP_CRM.jsp?nav=2&NavBarId=ERP_CRMServices >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > |
Re: shipments made for out of stock items
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In reply to this post by SkipDever
the online service is fee based. sorry.
however what I am proposing here would be a big boone to us all and that, after I get the supplier emails running, is my next task, if I am allowed Skip sent the following on 10/24/2007 5:36 PM: > Wanna share the code? > > -----Original Message----- > From: BJ Freeman [mailto:[hidden email]] > Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 5:06 PM > To: [hidden email] > Subject: Re: shipments made for out of stock items > > > skip I have implemented similar in the service I provide on line for > webstores. > been doing it since 1998. > see my other email. > > Skip sent the following on 10/24/2007 5:04 PM: >> BJ >> >> This logic gets very complicated very quickly. You can throw into the mix >> two dropship suppliers with different prices and shipping times. Maybe > the >> customer wants one and it comes in a box of 10. Its even more complicated >> if you require a 35% margin and getting that margin requires you to order > a >> hundred. It gets even more complicated still if.... >> >> The application I am converting to Ofbiz took me two years to get right in >> this area ( at least right from the clients perspective). Two years of >> tweeking that it is. I ended up with three scenerios, case 1 where I knew >> for sure what to do. Case 2 where I was pretty sure what to do, and case >> three where I didn't have a clue. >> >> I ended up doing case 1 without operator intervention, and presenting 2 >> separate lists of the last 2 cases to a human operator to approve. This > has >> worked in 21 installations of this application for over 15 years now and > is >> one of the few things I don't get complaints about or requests for > changes. >> Skip >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: BJ Freeman [mailto:[hidden email]] >> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 4:36 PM >> To: [hidden email] >> Subject: Re: shipments made for out of stock items >> >> >> Ok lets take it from the item issuance. >> here is the scenario. >> one product >> two suppliers >> one used to refill local stock >> one one to dropship. >> >> so you may have local stock or it may be ordered from the supplier that >> refills local stock. >> and under certain circumstances the dropshipper is used. >> >> now you may check inventory which means look at any orders pending >> and on determining that the delivery date is beyond the ship date to the >> customer may opt to send the order to the Dropshipper. >> >> so putting in parms like use local inventory if with in so many days of >> shipping date to customer >> or if available use dropship under any circumstance to satisfy back > orders. >> Not sure if this goes with the product or inventory in a facility >> I was thinking of having a place in the product to assign a service that >> would best suit the configuration for a client. >> >> this would allow many scenarios with out really changing the programming >> of ofbiz. >> >> >> David E Jones sent the following on 10/24/2007 4:19 PM: >>> I'm not sure I totally understand what you're looking at BJ... >>> >>> This may very well make sense as a configuration flag, either for a >>> ProductStore or for a Facility, so specify whether or not shipping >>> without inventory in stock is allowed. >>> >>> The Quick Ship Entire Order service would be affected by this, as would >>> certain other things. The best place to implement it is probably in the >>> issue order item to shipment service (the one that creates the >>> ItemIssuance records). That's what actually takes thing out of stock (ie >>> does the stock out). >>> >>> -David >>> >>> >>> On Oct 24, 2007, at 5:05 PM, BJ Freeman wrote: >>> >>>> if the inventory supplier is a dropshipper would be the consideration. >>>> since you can have many suppliers for a product, you could have a >>>> supplier you order from for your local supplier and a drop shipper as >>>> well. >>>> this would come under a scenario of determining best cost and delivery >>>> of the product which is part of ERP. >>>> >>>> So I don't think a simple flag is the answer. >>>> >>>> >>>> Skip sent the following on 10/24/2007 3:33 PM: >>>>> BJ >>>>> >>>>> No, I have considered only my own needs. However, a property which >>>>> determines the behavior satisfies both camps. >>>>> >>>>> Skip >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: BJ Freeman [mailto:[hidden email]] >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 1:27 PM >>>>> To: [hidden email] >>>>> Subject: Re: shipments made for out of stock items >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Skip have you consider the sequence for a dropshipper, and some >>>>> fulfillment houses. >>>>> you don't have their inventory. >>>>> >>>>> Skip sent the following on 10/24/2007 1:09 PM: >>>>>> Dave >>>>>> >>>>>> I agree that this is a big hole/bug. On the other hand, there are >>>>>> folks >>>>> who >>>>>> don't mind/prefer the sloppiness (I have a customer just like >>>>>> that). So, >>>>>> perhaps we could use a property to define the behavior, like: >>>>>> >>>>>> ilikesloppybookkeeping=true/false (tongue in cheek) >>>>>> >>>>>> However, I would be happy to collaborate to get this done. I want >>>>>> requirements and automatic backorders issued for out of stock etc for >>>>> quick >>>>>> ship. I was just about to start work on this. We could modify the >>>>> existing >>>>>> service to look for a property and if it exists, do the better >>>>>> bookkeeping >>>>> / >>>>>> automatic ordering. >>>>>> >>>>>> This is a hole for me because if my customer has a customer at the >>>>>> counter >>>>>> and is selling him some stuff and part of it is on back order, he >>>>>> has to >>>>>> exit out of the sales order screen and go to the shipping screen to >>>>>> get it >>>>>> all done right. It's a pain and will happen 10 times a day for him. >>>>> Fixing >>>>>> the quickship will take care of it. >>>>>> >>>>>> Maybe with the configurable property, the muckity-mucks won't be so >>>>>> reluctant to accept it. >>>>>> >>>>>> Skip >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: David E Jones [mailto:[hidden email]] >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:24 PM >>>>>> To: [hidden email] >>>>>> Subject: Re: shipments made for out of stock items >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Oct 24, 2007, at 6:41 AM, Dave Tenerowicz wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> The more I think about this, it seems inappropriate for an ERP >>>>>>> system to allow this. Why would the quick ship service allow a user >>>>>>> to charge a customers credit card and "ship" a physical product >>>>>>> that the system "knew" was not available? >>>>>> For some users the system doesn't know everything... >>>>>> >>>>>>> Before charging the card, the sales person would want to confirm >>>>>>> that the goods were actually available. Once this was confirmed, it >>>>>>> would take a facility worker 30 seconds to adjust the inventory, >>>>>>> leaving an audit trail etc. >>>>>> Yes, but not everyone wants to use it this way. >>>>>> >>>>>>> To me this seems like a JIRA issue, which should be fixed. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'll submit the issue and we'll submit a fix. >>>>>> It will most likely be rejected. >>>>>> >>>>>> -David >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Dave Tenerowicz wrote: >>>>>>>> Thank you! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> David E Jones wrote: >>>>>>>>> Well, there ya go! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The quick ship order stuff doesn't check stock levels... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -David >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Oct 23, 2007, at 3:53 PM, Dave Tenerowicz wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Yes, I should have mentioned that we created a new service to >>>>>>>>>> automatically create shipments. It calls quickShipOrder as part >>>>>>>>>> of it's processing. >>>>>>>>>> -Dave >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> David E Jones wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> What do you mean by "being created"? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> There isn't really anything that automatically creates >>>>>>>>>>> shipments, unless a human does it through some UI like the >>>>>>>>>>> shipment or packing screens (or a service or something was >>>>>>>>>>> written to automatically do it somehow). >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -David >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 22, 2007, at 3:48 PM, Dave Tenerowicz wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> It appears that shipments are being created with out of stock >>>>>>>>>>>> items in an implementation we are doing. I am guessing this is >>>>>>>>>>>> due to product store settings, not a code issue. >>>>>>>>>>>> rev = 545314 >>>>>>>>>>>> check inventory=Y >>>>>>>>>>>> reserve inventory=Y >>>>>>>>>>>> require inventory=N >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> All products are finished goods (no digital or virtual) >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for any help. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> Dave Tenerowicz >>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email] >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Office: 303.493.6727 >>>>>>>>>>>> Mobile 303.906.6116 >>>>>>>>>>>> Fax 303.814.8330 >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Visit us at http://www.salmonllc.com >>>>>>>>>>>> For ERP Information: http://www.salmonllc.com/Jsp/vanity/ >>>>>>>>>>>> ERP_CRM.jsp?nav=2&NavBarId=ERP_CRMServices >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> Dave Tenerowicz >>>>>>>>>> [hidden email] >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Office: 303.493.6727 >>>>>>>>>> Mobile 303.906.6116 >>>>>>>>>> Fax 303.814.8330 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Visit us at http://www.salmonllc.com >>>>>>>>>> For ERP Information: http://www.salmonllc.com/Jsp/vanity/ >>>>>>>>>> ERP_CRM.jsp?nav=2&NavBarId=ERP_CRMServices >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Dave Tenerowicz >>>>>>> [hidden email] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Office: 303.493.6727 >>>>>>> Mobile 303.906.6116 >>>>>>> Fax 303.814.8330 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Visit us at http://www.salmonllc.com >>>>>>> For ERP Information: http://www.salmonllc.com/Jsp/vanity/ >>>>>>> ERP_CRM.jsp?nav=2&NavBarId=ERP_CRMServices >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >> >> >> > > > > |
Re: shipments made for out of stock items
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In reply to this post by SkipDever
Yes having it set for the whole store would be the way to go.
then as new products are added they adopt the store settings. will work up a proposal and put in the jira comments and support welcome Skip sent the following on 10/24/2007 5:41 PM: > BJ > > This is a really good idea, but too fine grained for me. Perhaps we could > have a similiar drop down for the store page and then a ? "Want to add this > to all products?". > > I can forsee the need to have variances for some products, but most would > use one method. > > Maybe a service you could run to set all products to one service and then go > and individually do the ones that varied? > > The more I think about this per-product service, the more I like it. > > Skip > > -----Original Message----- > From: BJ Freeman [mailto:[hidden email]] > Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 5:04 PM > To: [hidden email] > Subject: Re: shipments made for out of stock items > > > so to expand on this. > we have many services that do many things. > but each customer has a different way they want it done > so in products page, a dropdown of toplevel logic service. > for Out of Stock. > the consultant use the webtools import to put in their top level > service, name thisismytoplevelforoutofstock. > this service would then call the other services that are here to > implement their business logic > > hope that clears it up. > > BJ Freeman sent the following on 10/24/2007 4:49 PM: >> Ok I guess this comes under business logic >> and hopefully we can have may such services that can be configured based >> on the product, but assigning these services in the product configuration. >> I am trying to think not as this is my requirement, but a best way to >> expand ofbiz that lets consultant configure with out changing ofbiz as > such. >> and yes, allow to be backward compatible by putting in a default service >> with the current business logic >> >> I think this effort would satisfy everyone and allow for future >> expansion with a lot more ease. >> >> Skip sent the following on 10/24/2007 4:38 PM: >>> BJ >>> >>> I think we are talking about different issues. The flag would only be > used >>> to determine whether the existing quickship code is run or whether > inventory >>> checks are done and requirements created for out of stock items when the >>> quickship button is pressed. The satisfaction of the requirements, i.e. >>> dropshipped or backordered etc. would be determined by other (hopefully >>> existing) code. In this way, existing Ofbiz users who want the existing >>> behavior would be unaffected and those of us with walk-in customers who >>> backorder things have an easier time getting it done. >>> >>> For my current customer, I actually need to give the purchasing guy both >>> options (dropship from multiple suppliers and backorder and ship > locally). >>> But, I expect this code to be in some other area (haven't looked yet). >>> >>> Skip >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: BJ Freeman [mailto:[hidden email]] >>> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 4:05 PM >>> To: [hidden email] >>> Subject: Re: shipments made for out of stock items >>> >>> >>> if the inventory supplier is a dropshipper would be the consideration. >>> since you can have many suppliers for a product, you could have a >>> supplier you order from for your local supplier and a drop shipper as > well. >>> this would come under a scenario of determining best cost and delivery >>> of the product which is part of ERP. >>> >>> So I don't think a simple flag is the answer. >>> >>> >>> Skip sent the following on 10/24/2007 3:33 PM: >>>> BJ >>>> >>>> No, I have considered only my own needs. However, a property which >>>> determines the behavior satisfies both camps. >>>> >>>> Skip >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: BJ Freeman [mailto:[hidden email]] >>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 1:27 PM >>>> To: [hidden email] >>>> Subject: Re: shipments made for out of stock items >>>> >>>> >>>> Skip have you consider the sequence for a dropshipper, and some >>>> fulfillment houses. >>>> you don't have their inventory. >>>> >>>> Skip sent the following on 10/24/2007 1:09 PM: >>>>> Dave >>>>> >>>>> I agree that this is a big hole/bug. On the other hand, there are > folks >>>> who >>>>> don't mind/prefer the sloppiness (I have a customer just like that). > So, >>>>> perhaps we could use a property to define the behavior, like: >>>>> >>>>> ilikesloppybookkeeping=true/false (tongue in cheek) >>>>> >>>>> However, I would be happy to collaborate to get this done. I want >>>>> requirements and automatic backorders issued for out of stock etc for >>>> quick >>>>> ship. I was just about to start work on this. We could modify the >>>> existing >>>>> service to look for a property and if it exists, do the better >>> bookkeeping >>>> / >>>>> automatic ordering. >>>>> >>>>> This is a hole for me because if my customer has a customer at the >>> counter >>>>> and is selling him some stuff and part of it is on back order, he has > to >>>>> exit out of the sales order screen and go to the shipping screen to get >>> it >>>>> all done right. It's a pain and will happen 10 times a day for him. >>>> Fixing >>>>> the quickship will take care of it. >>>>> >>>>> Maybe with the configurable property, the muckity-mucks won't be so >>>>> reluctant to accept it. >>>>> >>>>> Skip >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: David E Jones [mailto:[hidden email]] >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:24 PM >>>>> To: [hidden email] >>>>> Subject: Re: shipments made for out of stock items >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Oct 24, 2007, at 6:41 AM, Dave Tenerowicz wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> The more I think about this, it seems inappropriate for an ERP >>>>>> system to allow this. Why would the quick ship service allow a user >>>>>> to charge a customers credit card and "ship" a physical product >>>>>> that the system "knew" was not available? >>>>> For some users the system doesn't know everything... >>>>> >>>>>> Before charging the card, the sales person would want to confirm >>>>>> that the goods were actually available. Once this was confirmed, it >>>>>> would take a facility worker 30 seconds to adjust the inventory, >>>>>> leaving an audit trail etc. >>>>> Yes, but not everyone wants to use it this way. >>>>> >>>>>> To me this seems like a JIRA issue, which should be fixed. >>>>>> >>>>>> I'll submit the issue and we'll submit a fix. >>>>> It will most likely be rejected. >>>>> >>>>> -David >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Dave Tenerowicz wrote: >>>>>>> Thank you! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> David E Jones wrote: >>>>>>>> Well, there ya go! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The quick ship order stuff doesn't check stock levels... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -David >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Oct 23, 2007, at 3:53 PM, Dave Tenerowicz wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Yes, I should have mentioned that we created a new service to >>>>>>>>> automatically create shipments. It calls quickShipOrder as part >>>>>>>>> of it's processing. >>>>>>>>> -Dave >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> David E Jones wrote: >>>>>>>>>> What do you mean by "being created"? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> There isn't really anything that automatically creates >>>>>>>>>> shipments, unless a human does it through some UI like the >>>>>>>>>> shipment or packing screens (or a service or something was >>>>>>>>>> written to automatically do it somehow). >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -David >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Oct 22, 2007, at 3:48 PM, Dave Tenerowicz wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> It appears that shipments are being created with out of stock >>>>>>>>>>> items in an implementation we are doing. I am guessing this is >>>>>>>>>>> due to product store settings, not a code issue. >>>>>>>>>>> rev = 545314 >>>>>>>>>>> check inventory=Y >>>>>>>>>>> reserve inventory=Y >>>>>>>>>>> require inventory=N >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> All products are finished goods (no digital or virtual) >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for any help. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> Dave Tenerowicz >>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email] >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Office: 303.493.6727 >>>>>>>>>>> Mobile 303.906.6116 >>>>>>>>>>> Fax 303.814.8330 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Visit us at http://www.salmonllc.com >>>>>>>>>>> For ERP Information: http://www.salmonllc.com/Jsp/vanity/ >>>>>>>>>>> ERP_CRM.jsp?nav=2&NavBarId=ERP_CRMServices >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Dave Tenerowicz >>>>>>>>> [hidden email] >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Office: 303.493.6727 >>>>>>>>> Mobile 303.906.6116 >>>>>>>>> Fax 303.814.8330 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Visit us at http://www.salmonllc.com >>>>>>>>> For ERP Information: http://www.salmonllc.com/Jsp/vanity/ >>>>>>>>> ERP_CRM.jsp?nav=2&NavBarId=ERP_CRMServices >>>>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Dave Tenerowicz >>>>>> [hidden email] >>>>>> >>>>>> Office: 303.493.6727 >>>>>> Mobile 303.906.6116 >>>>>> Fax 303.814.8330 >>>>>> >>>>>> Visit us at http://www.salmonllc.com >>>>>> For ERP Information: http://www.salmonllc.com/Jsp/vanity/ >>>>>> ERP_CRM.jsp?nav=2&NavBarId=ERP_CRMServices >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> > > > > |
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In reply to this post by BJ Freeman
Expect I'll get to it before you then.
-----Original Message----- From: BJ Freeman [mailto:[hidden email]] Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 5:44 PM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: shipments made for out of stock items the online service is fee based. sorry. however what I am proposing here would be a big boone to us all and that, after I get the supplier emails running, is my next task, if I am allowed Skip sent the following on 10/24/2007 5:36 PM: > Wanna share the code? > > -----Original Message----- > From: BJ Freeman [mailto:[hidden email]] > Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 5:06 PM > To: [hidden email] > Subject: Re: shipments made for out of stock items > > > skip I have implemented similar in the service I provide on line for > webstores. > been doing it since 1998. > see my other email. > > Skip sent the following on 10/24/2007 5:04 PM: >> BJ >> >> This logic gets very complicated very quickly. You can throw into the >> two dropship suppliers with different prices and shipping times. Maybe > the >> customer wants one and it comes in a box of 10. Its even more complicated >> if you require a 35% margin and getting that margin requires you to order > a >> hundred. It gets even more complicated still if.... >> >> The application I am converting to Ofbiz took me two years to get right in >> this area ( at least right from the clients perspective). Two years of >> tweeking that it is. I ended up with three scenerios, case 1 where I knew >> for sure what to do. Case 2 where I was pretty sure what to do, and case >> three where I didn't have a clue. >> >> I ended up doing case 1 without operator intervention, and presenting 2 >> separate lists of the last 2 cases to a human operator to approve. This > has >> worked in 21 installations of this application for over 15 years now and > is >> one of the few things I don't get complaints about or requests for > changes. >> Skip >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: BJ Freeman [mailto:[hidden email]] >> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 4:36 PM >> To: [hidden email] >> Subject: Re: shipments made for out of stock items >> >> >> Ok lets take it from the item issuance. >> here is the scenario. >> one product >> two suppliers >> one used to refill local stock >> one one to dropship. >> >> so you may have local stock or it may be ordered from the supplier that >> refills local stock. >> and under certain circumstances the dropshipper is used. >> >> now you may check inventory which means look at any orders pending >> and on determining that the delivery date is beyond the ship date to the >> customer may opt to send the order to the Dropshipper. >> >> so putting in parms like use local inventory if with in so many days of >> shipping date to customer >> or if available use dropship under any circumstance to satisfy back > orders. >> Not sure if this goes with the product or inventory in a facility >> I was thinking of having a place in the product to assign a service that >> would best suit the configuration for a client. >> >> this would allow many scenarios with out really changing the programming >> of ofbiz. >> >> >> David E Jones sent the following on 10/24/2007 4:19 PM: >>> I'm not sure I totally understand what you're looking at BJ... >>> >>> This may very well make sense as a configuration flag, either for a >>> ProductStore or for a Facility, so specify whether or not shipping >>> without inventory in stock is allowed. >>> >>> The Quick Ship Entire Order service would be affected by this, as would >>> certain other things. The best place to implement it is probably in the >>> issue order item to shipment service (the one that creates the >>> ItemIssuance records). That's what actually takes thing out of stock (ie >>> does the stock out). >>> >>> -David >>> >>> >>> On Oct 24, 2007, at 5:05 PM, BJ Freeman wrote: >>> >>>> if the inventory supplier is a dropshipper would be the consideration. >>>> since you can have many suppliers for a product, you could have a >>>> supplier you order from for your local supplier and a drop shipper as >>>> well. >>>> this would come under a scenario of determining best cost and delivery >>>> of the product which is part of ERP. >>>> >>>> So I don't think a simple flag is the answer. >>>> >>>> >>>> Skip sent the following on 10/24/2007 3:33 PM: >>>>> BJ >>>>> >>>>> No, I have considered only my own needs. However, a property which >>>>> determines the behavior satisfies both camps. >>>>> >>>>> Skip >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: BJ Freeman [mailto:[hidden email]] >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 1:27 PM >>>>> To: [hidden email] >>>>> Subject: Re: shipments made for out of stock items >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Skip have you consider the sequence for a dropshipper, and some >>>>> fulfillment houses. >>>>> you don't have their inventory. >>>>> >>>>> Skip sent the following on 10/24/2007 1:09 PM: >>>>>> Dave >>>>>> >>>>>> I agree that this is a big hole/bug. On the other hand, there are >>>>>> folks >>>>> who >>>>>> don't mind/prefer the sloppiness (I have a customer just like >>>>>> that). So, >>>>>> perhaps we could use a property to define the behavior, like: >>>>>> >>>>>> ilikesloppybookkeeping=true/false (tongue in cheek) >>>>>> >>>>>> However, I would be happy to collaborate to get this done. I want >>>>>> requirements and automatic backorders issued for out of stock etc for >>>>> quick >>>>>> ship. I was just about to start work on this. We could modify the >>>>> existing >>>>>> service to look for a property and if it exists, do the better >>>>>> bookkeeping >>>>> / >>>>>> automatic ordering. >>>>>> >>>>>> This is a hole for me because if my customer has a customer at the >>>>>> counter >>>>>> and is selling him some stuff and part of it is on back order, he >>>>>> has to >>>>>> exit out of the sales order screen and go to the shipping screen to >>>>>> get it >>>>>> all done right. It's a pain and will happen 10 times a day for him. >>>>> Fixing >>>>>> the quickship will take care of it. >>>>>> >>>>>> Maybe with the configurable property, the muckity-mucks won't be so >>>>>> reluctant to accept it. >>>>>> >>>>>> Skip >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: David E Jones [mailto:[hidden email]] >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:24 PM >>>>>> To: [hidden email] >>>>>> Subject: Re: shipments made for out of stock items >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Oct 24, 2007, at 6:41 AM, Dave Tenerowicz wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> The more I think about this, it seems inappropriate for an ERP >>>>>>> system to allow this. Why would the quick ship service allow a user >>>>>>> to charge a customers credit card and "ship" a physical product >>>>>>> that the system "knew" was not available? >>>>>> For some users the system doesn't know everything... >>>>>> >>>>>>> Before charging the card, the sales person would want to confirm >>>>>>> that the goods were actually available. Once this was confirmed, it >>>>>>> would take a facility worker 30 seconds to adjust the inventory, >>>>>>> leaving an audit trail etc. >>>>>> Yes, but not everyone wants to use it this way. >>>>>> >>>>>>> To me this seems like a JIRA issue, which should be fixed. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'll submit the issue and we'll submit a fix. >>>>>> It will most likely be rejected. >>>>>> >>>>>> -David >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Dave Tenerowicz wrote: >>>>>>>> Thank you! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> David E Jones wrote: >>>>>>>>> Well, there ya go! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The quick ship order stuff doesn't check stock levels... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -David >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Oct 23, 2007, at 3:53 PM, Dave Tenerowicz wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Yes, I should have mentioned that we created a new service to >>>>>>>>>> automatically create shipments. It calls quickShipOrder as part >>>>>>>>>> of it's processing. >>>>>>>>>> -Dave >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> David E Jones wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> What do you mean by "being created"? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> There isn't really anything that automatically creates >>>>>>>>>>> shipments, unless a human does it through some UI like the >>>>>>>>>>> shipment or packing screens (or a service or something was >>>>>>>>>>> written to automatically do it somehow). >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -David >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 22, 2007, at 3:48 PM, Dave Tenerowicz wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> It appears that shipments are being created with out of stock >>>>>>>>>>>> items in an implementation we are doing. I am guessing this is >>>>>>>>>>>> due to product store settings, not a code issue. >>>>>>>>>>>> rev = 545314 >>>>>>>>>>>> check inventory=Y >>>>>>>>>>>> reserve inventory=Y >>>>>>>>>>>> require inventory=N >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> All products are finished goods (no digital or virtual) >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for any help. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> Dave Tenerowicz >>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email] >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Office: 303.493.6727 >>>>>>>>>>>> Mobile 303.906.6116 >>>>>>>>>>>> Fax 303.814.8330 >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Visit us at http://www.salmonllc.com >>>>>>>>>>>> For ERP Information: http://www.salmonllc.com/Jsp/vanity/ >>>>>>>>>>>> ERP_CRM.jsp?nav=2&NavBarId=ERP_CRMServices >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> Dave Tenerowicz >>>>>>>>>> [hidden email] >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Office: 303.493.6727 >>>>>>>>>> Mobile 303.906.6116 >>>>>>>>>> Fax 303.814.8330 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Visit us at http://www.salmonllc.com >>>>>>>>>> For ERP Information: http://www.salmonllc.com/Jsp/vanity/ >>>>>>>>>> ERP_CRM.jsp?nav=2&NavBarId=ERP_CRMServices >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Dave Tenerowicz >>>>>>> [hidden email] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Office: 303.493.6727 >>>>>>> Mobile 303.906.6116 >>>>>>> Fax 303.814.8330 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Visit us at http://www.salmonllc.com >>>>>>> For ERP Information: http://www.salmonllc.com/Jsp/vanity/ >>>>>>> ERP_CRM.jsp?nav=2&NavBarId=ERP_CRMServices >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >> >> >> > > > > |
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In reply to this post by BJ Freeman
BJ
You're way to easy on your customers. Giving us hard-axxxs a bad name. I always keep the rights to the code I write unless it's a salaried long term job. Skip -----Original Message----- From: BJ Freeman [mailto:[hidden email]] Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 5:44 PM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: shipments made for out of stock items the online service is fee based. sorry. however what I am proposing here would be a big boone to us all and that, after I get the supplier emails running, is my next task, if I am allowed Skip sent the following on 10/24/2007 5:36 PM: > Wanna share the code? > > -----Original Message----- > From: BJ Freeman [mailto:[hidden email]] > Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 5:06 PM > To: [hidden email] > Subject: Re: shipments made for out of stock items > > > skip I have implemented similar in the service I provide on line for > webstores. > been doing it since 1998. > see my other email. > > Skip sent the following on 10/24/2007 5:04 PM: >> BJ >> >> This logic gets very complicated very quickly. You can throw into the >> two dropship suppliers with different prices and shipping times. Maybe > the >> customer wants one and it comes in a box of 10. Its even more complicated >> if you require a 35% margin and getting that margin requires you to order > a >> hundred. It gets even more complicated still if.... >> >> The application I am converting to Ofbiz took me two years to get right in >> this area ( at least right from the clients perspective). Two years of >> tweeking that it is. I ended up with three scenerios, case 1 where I knew >> for sure what to do. Case 2 where I was pretty sure what to do, and case >> three where I didn't have a clue. >> >> I ended up doing case 1 without operator intervention, and presenting 2 >> separate lists of the last 2 cases to a human operator to approve. This > has >> worked in 21 installations of this application for over 15 years now and > is >> one of the few things I don't get complaints about or requests for > changes. >> Skip >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: BJ Freeman [mailto:[hidden email]] >> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 4:36 PM >> To: [hidden email] >> Subject: Re: shipments made for out of stock items >> >> >> Ok lets take it from the item issuance. >> here is the scenario. >> one product >> two suppliers >> one used to refill local stock >> one one to dropship. >> >> so you may have local stock or it may be ordered from the supplier that >> refills local stock. >> and under certain circumstances the dropshipper is used. >> >> now you may check inventory which means look at any orders pending >> and on determining that the delivery date is beyond the ship date to the >> customer may opt to send the order to the Dropshipper. >> >> so putting in parms like use local inventory if with in so many days of >> shipping date to customer >> or if available use dropship under any circumstance to satisfy back > orders. >> Not sure if this goes with the product or inventory in a facility >> I was thinking of having a place in the product to assign a service that >> would best suit the configuration for a client. >> >> this would allow many scenarios with out really changing the programming >> of ofbiz. >> >> >> David E Jones sent the following on 10/24/2007 4:19 PM: >>> I'm not sure I totally understand what you're looking at BJ... >>> >>> This may very well make sense as a configuration flag, either for a >>> ProductStore or for a Facility, so specify whether or not shipping >>> without inventory in stock is allowed. >>> >>> The Quick Ship Entire Order service would be affected by this, as would >>> certain other things. The best place to implement it is probably in the >>> issue order item to shipment service (the one that creates the >>> ItemIssuance records). That's what actually takes thing out of stock (ie >>> does the stock out). >>> >>> -David >>> >>> >>> On Oct 24, 2007, at 5:05 PM, BJ Freeman wrote: >>> >>>> if the inventory supplier is a dropshipper would be the consideration. >>>> since you can have many suppliers for a product, you could have a >>>> supplier you order from for your local supplier and a drop shipper as >>>> well. >>>> this would come under a scenario of determining best cost and delivery >>>> of the product which is part of ERP. >>>> >>>> So I don't think a simple flag is the answer. >>>> >>>> >>>> Skip sent the following on 10/24/2007 3:33 PM: >>>>> BJ >>>>> >>>>> No, I have considered only my own needs. However, a property which >>>>> determines the behavior satisfies both camps. >>>>> >>>>> Skip >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: BJ Freeman [mailto:[hidden email]] >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 1:27 PM >>>>> To: [hidden email] >>>>> Subject: Re: shipments made for out of stock items >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Skip have you consider the sequence for a dropshipper, and some >>>>> fulfillment houses. >>>>> you don't have their inventory. >>>>> >>>>> Skip sent the following on 10/24/2007 1:09 PM: >>>>>> Dave >>>>>> >>>>>> I agree that this is a big hole/bug. On the other hand, there are >>>>>> folks >>>>> who >>>>>> don't mind/prefer the sloppiness (I have a customer just like >>>>>> that). So, >>>>>> perhaps we could use a property to define the behavior, like: >>>>>> >>>>>> ilikesloppybookkeeping=true/false (tongue in cheek) >>>>>> >>>>>> However, I would be happy to collaborate to get this done. I want >>>>>> requirements and automatic backorders issued for out of stock etc for >>>>> quick >>>>>> ship. I was just about to start work on this. We could modify the >>>>> existing >>>>>> service to look for a property and if it exists, do the better >>>>>> bookkeeping >>>>> / >>>>>> automatic ordering. >>>>>> >>>>>> This is a hole for me because if my customer has a customer at the >>>>>> counter >>>>>> and is selling him some stuff and part of it is on back order, he >>>>>> has to >>>>>> exit out of the sales order screen and go to the shipping screen to >>>>>> get it >>>>>> all done right. It's a pain and will happen 10 times a day for him. >>>>> Fixing >>>>>> the quickship will take care of it. >>>>>> >>>>>> Maybe with the configurable property, the muckity-mucks won't be so >>>>>> reluctant to accept it. >>>>>> >>>>>> Skip >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: David E Jones [mailto:[hidden email]] >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:24 PM >>>>>> To: [hidden email] >>>>>> Subject: Re: shipments made for out of stock items >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Oct 24, 2007, at 6:41 AM, Dave Tenerowicz wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> The more I think about this, it seems inappropriate for an ERP >>>>>>> system to allow this. Why would the quick ship service allow a user >>>>>>> to charge a customers credit card and "ship" a physical product >>>>>>> that the system "knew" was not available? >>>>>> For some users the system doesn't know everything... >>>>>> >>>>>>> Before charging the card, the sales person would want to confirm >>>>>>> that the goods were actually available. Once this was confirmed, it >>>>>>> would take a facility worker 30 seconds to adjust the inventory, >>>>>>> leaving an audit trail etc. >>>>>> Yes, but not everyone wants to use it this way. >>>>>> >>>>>>> To me this seems like a JIRA issue, which should be fixed. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'll submit the issue and we'll submit a fix. >>>>>> It will most likely be rejected. >>>>>> >>>>>> -David >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Dave Tenerowicz wrote: >>>>>>>> Thank you! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> David E Jones wrote: >>>>>>>>> Well, there ya go! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The quick ship order stuff doesn't check stock levels... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -David >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Oct 23, 2007, at 3:53 PM, Dave Tenerowicz wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Yes, I should have mentioned that we created a new service to >>>>>>>>>> automatically create shipments. It calls quickShipOrder as part >>>>>>>>>> of it's processing. >>>>>>>>>> -Dave >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> David E Jones wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> What do you mean by "being created"? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> There isn't really anything that automatically creates >>>>>>>>>>> shipments, unless a human does it through some UI like the >>>>>>>>>>> shipment or packing screens (or a service or something was >>>>>>>>>>> written to automatically do it somehow). >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -David >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 22, 2007, at 3:48 PM, Dave Tenerowicz wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> It appears that shipments are being created with out of stock >>>>>>>>>>>> items in an implementation we are doing. I am guessing this is >>>>>>>>>>>> due to product store settings, not a code issue. >>>>>>>>>>>> rev = 545314 >>>>>>>>>>>> check inventory=Y >>>>>>>>>>>> reserve inventory=Y >>>>>>>>>>>> require inventory=N >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> All products are finished goods (no digital or virtual) >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for any help. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> Dave Tenerowicz >>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email] >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Office: 303.493.6727 >>>>>>>>>>>> Mobile 303.906.6116 >>>>>>>>>>>> Fax 303.814.8330 >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Visit us at http://www.salmonllc.com >>>>>>>>>>>> For ERP Information: http://www.salmonllc.com/Jsp/vanity/ >>>>>>>>>>>> ERP_CRM.jsp?nav=2&NavBarId=ERP_CRMServices >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> Dave Tenerowicz >>>>>>>>>> [hidden email] >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Office: 303.493.6727 >>>>>>>>>> Mobile 303.906.6116 >>>>>>>>>> Fax 303.814.8330 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Visit us at http://www.salmonllc.com >>>>>>>>>> For ERP Information: http://www.salmonllc.com/Jsp/vanity/ >>>>>>>>>> ERP_CRM.jsp?nav=2&NavBarId=ERP_CRMServices >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Dave Tenerowicz >>>>>>> [hidden email] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Office: 303.493.6727 >>>>>>> Mobile 303.906.6116 >>>>>>> Fax 303.814.8330 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Visit us at http://www.salmonllc.com >>>>>>> For ERP Information: http://www.salmonllc.com/Jsp/vanity/ >>>>>>> ERP_CRM.jsp?nav=2&NavBarId=ERP_CRMServices >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >> >> >> > > > > |
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In reply to this post by SkipDever
Skip,
Just my rambling 2 cents here. :) It takes time to write "If it has wide appeal and does not break existing users, we can consider it". Quicker to write, "It'll most likely be rejected" (so ask me more about why, or just shoot me). I'd like to bring up a curious experience in my 13-year career. Some folks can do everything, marketing and coding and even HR management. It's like a soccer player who can be a defender and an attacker. However, no one man/woman can do everything at any one time. Even if I were a great PR guy and a great coder, if I try to do both at the same time, I'd be bad at both! Oh yeah, I've tried to do my business being EVERYTHING all the time, zero or minimal delegation (I thought I could have all the profits to myself). Things fell apart instead. I've learned some good and painful lessons in life. Best to always assume the best intention in people when reading what they write. Nope, I can't always practice what I just preached. All too human. Heh. :P Jonathon Skip wrote: > David > > My apologies. I read this comment "It will most likely be rejected." and > was not amused. I personally should always refrain from responding to these > and will endeavor to do so in the future. > > It is obvious to me that most people who currently use Ofbiz like it the way > it is or it would have long since been changed. However, as the user base > grows, so will the needs. Rejecting an idea out of hand and discouraging > people from contributing seems counter-productive just because it is the way > most people do it. > > In this case, if you use properties to control behavior, it doesn't have to > be either/or. I've spent three or four months now learning Ofbiz and a month > writing code for it. I have contracts now for three years of work based on > it. What I write will not be suitable for everyone, but it will be useful > to many. I can take the time and write it so that it is easily customizable > by the devs who listen here or just bang it out for the current customer and > not bother offering it up. > > I would perfer to contribute my work back to the community. I feel a strong > obligation to do so. However, when I read comments like the above I start > asking myself, "whats the point of doing the extra work when it will not be > accepted?". Some will say that it can still be found in Jira, but unless > you monitor the Jira religiously, trying to find unaccepted contributions is > painful. > > In my view, you could have encourages contributions by saying "If it has > wide appeal and does not break existing users, we can consider it" instead > of "It will most likely be rejected". > > Just my opinionated jerk self 2 cents. > > Skip > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: David E Jones [mailto:[hidden email]] > Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 3:18 PM > To: [hidden email] > Subject: Re: shipments made for out of stock items > > > > Wow, in a friendly mood today aren't we? > > Don't be so quick to judge people. > > Keep in mind that OFBiz supports companies that don't track inventory > in OFBiz, and currently most companies don't do book keeping in OFBiz. > > It doesn't mean it's sloppy or bad or from malicious intent or that > the people who want to do things this way are incompetent, or that > the analysts who designed it or developers who created it are > incompetent. > > OFBiz is a collaborative community working together to create a > system that can be used (hopefully without too much customization) in > a wide variety of businesses and a wide variety of requirements for > interactions with other systems and such. > > Please try not to undermine that. It is the foundation of this > effort. If you want something done about this, please frame it in > that light. > > -David > > > On Oct 24, 2007, at 2:09 PM, Skip wrote: > >> Dave >> >> I agree that this is a big hole/bug. On the other hand, there are >> folks who >> don't mind/prefer the sloppiness (I have a customer just like >> that). So, >> perhaps we could use a property to define the behavior, like: >> >> ilikesloppybookkeeping=true/false (tongue in cheek) >> >> However, I would be happy to collaborate to get this done. I want >> requirements and automatic backorders issued for out of stock etc >> for quick >> ship. I was just about to start work on this. We could modify the >> existing >> service to look for a property and if it exists, do the better >> bookkeeping / >> automatic ordering. >> >> This is a hole for me because if my customer has a customer at the >> counter >> and is selling him some stuff and part of it is on back order, he >> has to >> exit out of the sales order screen and go to the shipping screen to >> get it >> all done right. It's a pain and will happen 10 times a day for >> him. Fixing >> the quickship will take care of it. >> >> Maybe with the configurable property, the muckity-mucks won't be so >> reluctant to accept it. >> >> Skip >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: David E Jones [mailto:[hidden email]] >> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:24 PM >> To: [hidden email] >> Subject: Re: shipments made for out of stock items >> >> >> >> On Oct 24, 2007, at 6:41 AM, Dave Tenerowicz wrote: >> >>> The more I think about this, it seems inappropriate for an ERP >>> system to allow this. Why would the quick ship service allow a user >>> to charge a customers credit card and "ship" a physical product >>> that the system "knew" was not available? >> For some users the system doesn't know everything... >> >>> Before charging the card, the sales person would want to confirm >>> that the goods were actually available. Once this was confirmed, it >>> would take a facility worker 30 seconds to adjust the inventory, >>> leaving an audit trail etc. >> Yes, but not everyone wants to use it this way. >> >>> To me this seems like a JIRA issue, which should be fixed. >>> >>> I'll submit the issue and we'll submit a fix. >> It will most likely be rejected. >> >> -David >> >> >>> Dave Tenerowicz wrote: >>>> Thank you! >>>> >>>> David E Jones wrote: >>>>> Well, there ya go! >>>>> >>>>> The quick ship order stuff doesn't check stock levels... >>>>> >>>>> -David >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Oct 23, 2007, at 3:53 PM, Dave Tenerowicz wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Yes, I should have mentioned that we created a new service to >>>>>> automatically create shipments. It calls quickShipOrder as part >>>>>> of it's processing. >>>>>> -Dave >>>>>> >>>>>> David E Jones wrote: >>>>>>> What do you mean by "being created"? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> There isn't really anything that automatically creates >>>>>>> shipments, unless a human does it through some UI like the >>>>>>> shipment or packing screens (or a service or something was >>>>>>> written to automatically do it somehow). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -David >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Oct 22, 2007, at 3:48 PM, Dave Tenerowicz wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It appears that shipments are being created with out of stock >>>>>>>> items in an implementation we are doing. I am guessing this is >>>>>>>> due to product store settings, not a code issue. >>>>>>>> rev = 545314 >>>>>>>> check inventory=Y >>>>>>>> reserve inventory=Y >>>>>>>> require inventory=N >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> All products are finished goods (no digital or virtual) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks for any help. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Dave Tenerowicz >>>>>>>> [hidden email] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Office: 303.493.6727 >>>>>>>> Mobile 303.906.6116 >>>>>>>> Fax 303.814.8330 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Visit us at http://www.salmonllc.com >>>>>>>> For ERP Information: http://www.salmonllc.com/Jsp/vanity/ >>>>>>>> ERP_CRM.jsp?nav=2&NavBarId=ERP_CRMServices >>>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Dave Tenerowicz >>>>>> [hidden email] >>>>>> >>>>>> Office: 303.493.6727 >>>>>> Mobile 303.906.6116 >>>>>> Fax 303.814.8330 >>>>>> >>>>>> Visit us at http://www.salmonllc.com >>>>>> For ERP Information: http://www.salmonllc.com/Jsp/vanity/ >>>>>> ERP_CRM.jsp?nav=2&NavBarId=ERP_CRMServices >>>>>> >>> -- >>> Dave Tenerowicz >>> [hidden email] >>> >>> Office: 303.493.6727 >>> Mobile 303.906.6116 >>> Fax 303.814.8330 >>> >>> Visit us at http://www.salmonllc.com >>> For ERP Information: http://www.salmonllc.com/Jsp/vanity/ >>> ERP_CRM.jsp?nav=2&NavBarId=ERP_CRMServices >>> >> > > > |
Re: shipments made for out of stock items
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In reply to this post by SkipDever
Learned a valuable lesson from my Granddad and dad
we have a mfgr company that was special niche for years we had competitors that tried to get market share but we were the leader in the field. so when I went to work for them, I was very concerned about the patents. they said. patents only keep them from stopping us from making it. but our innovation is what keeps up in front. so from my perspective, holding on to rights only protects me from someone saying I don't have the right to do it. with apache I don't worry about that. and my innovation keeps me ahead. what I share here is something I did months ago, but just getting around to adding it to ofbiz skip@theDevers sent the following on 10/24/2007 7:19 PM: > BJ > > You're way to easy on your customers. Giving us hard-axxxs a bad name. I > always keep the rights to the code I write unless it's a salaried long term > job. > > Skip > > -----Original Message----- > From: BJ Freeman [mailto:[hidden email]] > Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 5:44 PM > To: [hidden email] > Subject: Re: shipments made for out of stock items > > > the online service is fee based. sorry. > however what I am proposing here would be a big boone to us all > and that, after I get the supplier emails running, is my next task, if I > am allowed > > > Skip sent the following on 10/24/2007 5:36 PM: >> Wanna share the code? >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: BJ Freeman [mailto:[hidden email]] >> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 5:06 PM >> To: [hidden email] >> Subject: Re: shipments made for out of stock items >> >> >> skip I have implemented similar in the service I provide on line for >> webstores. >> been doing it since 1998. >> see my other email. >> >> Skip sent the following on 10/24/2007 5:04 PM: >>> BJ >>> >>> This logic gets very complicated very quickly. You can throw into the > mix >>> two dropship suppliers with different prices and shipping times. Maybe >> the >>> customer wants one and it comes in a box of 10. Its even more > complicated >>> if you require a 35% margin and getting that margin requires you to order >> a >>> hundred. It gets even more complicated still if.... >>> >>> The application I am converting to Ofbiz took me two years to get right > in >>> this area ( at least right from the clients perspective). Two years of >>> tweeking that it is. I ended up with three scenerios, case 1 where I > knew >>> for sure what to do. Case 2 where I was pretty sure what to do, and case >>> three where I didn't have a clue. >>> >>> I ended up doing case 1 without operator intervention, and presenting 2 >>> separate lists of the last 2 cases to a human operator to approve. This >> has >>> worked in 21 installations of this application for over 15 years now and >> is >>> one of the few things I don't get complaints about or requests for >> changes. >>> Skip >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: BJ Freeman [mailto:[hidden email]] >>> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 4:36 PM >>> To: [hidden email] >>> Subject: Re: shipments made for out of stock items >>> >>> >>> Ok lets take it from the item issuance. >>> here is the scenario. >>> one product >>> two suppliers >>> one used to refill local stock >>> one one to dropship. >>> >>> so you may have local stock or it may be ordered from the supplier that >>> refills local stock. >>> and under certain circumstances the dropshipper is used. >>> >>> now you may check inventory which means look at any orders pending >>> and on determining that the delivery date is beyond the ship date to the >>> customer may opt to send the order to the Dropshipper. >>> >>> so putting in parms like use local inventory if with in so many days of >>> shipping date to customer >>> or if available use dropship under any circumstance to satisfy back >> orders. >>> Not sure if this goes with the product or inventory in a facility >>> I was thinking of having a place in the product to assign a service that >>> would best suit the configuration for a client. >>> >>> this would allow many scenarios with out really changing the programming >>> of ofbiz. >>> >>> >>> David E Jones sent the following on 10/24/2007 4:19 PM: >>>> I'm not sure I totally understand what you're looking at BJ... >>>> >>>> This may very well make sense as a configuration flag, either for a >>>> ProductStore or for a Facility, so specify whether or not shipping >>>> without inventory in stock is allowed. >>>> >>>> The Quick Ship Entire Order service would be affected by this, as would >>>> certain other things. The best place to implement it is probably in the >>>> issue order item to shipment service (the one that creates the >>>> ItemIssuance records). That's what actually takes thing out of stock (ie >>>> does the stock out). >>>> >>>> -David >>>> >>>> >>>> On Oct 24, 2007, at 5:05 PM, BJ Freeman wrote: >>>> >>>>> if the inventory supplier is a dropshipper would be the consideration. >>>>> since you can have many suppliers for a product, you could have a >>>>> supplier you order from for your local supplier and a drop shipper as >>>>> well. >>>>> this would come under a scenario of determining best cost and delivery >>>>> of the product which is part of ERP. >>>>> >>>>> So I don't think a simple flag is the answer. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Skip sent the following on 10/24/2007 3:33 PM: >>>>>> BJ >>>>>> >>>>>> No, I have considered only my own needs. However, a property which >>>>>> determines the behavior satisfies both camps. >>>>>> >>>>>> Skip >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: BJ Freeman [mailto:[hidden email]] >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 1:27 PM >>>>>> To: [hidden email] >>>>>> Subject: Re: shipments made for out of stock items >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Skip have you consider the sequence for a dropshipper, and some >>>>>> fulfillment houses. >>>>>> you don't have their inventory. >>>>>> >>>>>> Skip sent the following on 10/24/2007 1:09 PM: >>>>>>> Dave >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I agree that this is a big hole/bug. On the other hand, there are >>>>>>> folks >>>>>> who >>>>>>> don't mind/prefer the sloppiness (I have a customer just like >>>>>>> that). So, >>>>>>> perhaps we could use a property to define the behavior, like: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ilikesloppybookkeeping=true/false (tongue in cheek) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> However, I would be happy to collaborate to get this done. I want >>>>>>> requirements and automatic backorders issued for out of stock etc for >>>>>> quick >>>>>>> ship. I was just about to start work on this. We could modify the >>>>>> existing >>>>>>> service to look for a property and if it exists, do the better >>>>>>> bookkeeping >>>>>> / >>>>>>> automatic ordering. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This is a hole for me because if my customer has a customer at the >>>>>>> counter >>>>>>> and is selling him some stuff and part of it is on back order, he >>>>>>> has to >>>>>>> exit out of the sales order screen and go to the shipping screen to >>>>>>> get it >>>>>>> all done right. It's a pain and will happen 10 times a day for him. >>>>>> Fixing >>>>>>> the quickship will take care of it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Maybe with the configurable property, the muckity-mucks won't be so >>>>>>> reluctant to accept it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Skip >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: David E Jones [mailto:[hidden email]] >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:24 PM >>>>>>> To: [hidden email] >>>>>>> Subject: Re: shipments made for out of stock items >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Oct 24, 2007, at 6:41 AM, Dave Tenerowicz wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The more I think about this, it seems inappropriate for an ERP >>>>>>>> system to allow this. Why would the quick ship service allow a user >>>>>>>> to charge a customers credit card and "ship" a physical product >>>>>>>> that the system "knew" was not available? >>>>>>> For some users the system doesn't know everything... >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Before charging the card, the sales person would want to confirm >>>>>>>> that the goods were actually available. Once this was confirmed, it >>>>>>>> would take a facility worker 30 seconds to adjust the inventory, >>>>>>>> leaving an audit trail etc. >>>>>>> Yes, but not everyone wants to use it this way. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> To me this seems like a JIRA issue, which should be fixed. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'll submit the issue and we'll submit a fix. >>>>>>> It will most likely be rejected. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -David >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Dave Tenerowicz wrote: >>>>>>>>> Thank you! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> David E Jones wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Well, there ya go! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The quick ship order stuff doesn't check stock levels... >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -David >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Oct 23, 2007, at 3:53 PM, Dave Tenerowicz wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Yes, I should have mentioned that we created a new service to >>>>>>>>>>> automatically create shipments. It calls quickShipOrder as part >>>>>>>>>>> of it's processing. >>>>>>>>>>> -Dave >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> David E Jones wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> What do you mean by "being created"? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> There isn't really anything that automatically creates >>>>>>>>>>>> shipments, unless a human does it through some UI like the >>>>>>>>>>>> shipment or packing screens (or a service or something was >>>>>>>>>>>> written to automatically do it somehow). >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -David >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 22, 2007, at 3:48 PM, Dave Tenerowicz wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> It appears that shipments are being created with out of stock >>>>>>>>>>>>> items in an implementation we are doing. I am guessing this is >>>>>>>>>>>>> due to product store settings, not a code issue. >>>>>>>>>>>>> rev = 545314 >>>>>>>>>>>>> check inventory=Y >>>>>>>>>>>>> reserve inventory=Y >>>>>>>>>>>>> require inventory=N >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> All products are finished goods (no digital or virtual) >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for any help. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> Dave Tenerowicz >>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email] >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Office: 303.493.6727 >>>>>>>>>>>>> Mobile 303.906.6116 >>>>>>>>>>>>> Fax 303.814.8330 >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Visit us at http://www.salmonllc.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> For ERP Information: http://www.salmonllc.com/Jsp/vanity/ >>>>>>>>>>>>> ERP_CRM.jsp?nav=2&NavBarId=ERP_CRMServices >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> Dave Tenerowicz >>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email] >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Office: 303.493.6727 >>>>>>>>>>> Mobile 303.906.6116 >>>>>>>>>>> Fax 303.814.8330 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Visit us at http://www.salmonllc.com >>>>>>>>>>> For ERP Information: http://www.salmonllc.com/Jsp/vanity/ >>>>>>>>>>> ERP_CRM.jsp?nav=2&NavBarId=ERP_CRMServices >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Dave Tenerowicz >>>>>>>> [hidden email] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Office: 303.493.6727 >>>>>>>> Mobile 303.906.6116 >>>>>>>> Fax 303.814.8330 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Visit us at http://www.salmonllc.com >>>>>>>> For ERP Information: http://www.salmonllc.com/Jsp/vanity/ >>>>>>>> ERP_CRM.jsp?nav=2&NavBarId=ERP_CRMServices >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > > |
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In reply to this post by Dave Tenerowicz
Certainly inappropriate. There are also many other inappropriate (or largely missing) parts in
OFBiz, like EFT handling (different in my part of the world, maybe). But we have to consider that we have many cooks (we all want in on it), and just one soup (OFBiz, framework, foundation functionalities). I always did wonder why my government doesn't make laws to prevent cyclists from cycling on pedestrian pavements/paths. Well, they did, once. But then, they realized that not everyone cycles at breakneck speeds like me. :) And cycling at crawl speeds on the roadsides can be terribly scary for most folks. So they removed the law. Yeah, they may need to make a law that fines me for cycling on pedestrian paths, just me. :P So many people, so few lawmakers. Jonathon Dave Tenerowicz wrote: > The more I think about this, it seems inappropriate for an ERP system to > allow this. Why would the quick ship service allow a user to charge a > customers credit card and "ship" a physical product that the system > "knew" was not available? > > Before charging the card, the sales person would want to confirm that > the goods were actually available. Once this was confirmed, it would > take a facility worker 30 seconds to adjust the inventory, leaving an > audit trail etc. > > To me this seems like a JIRA issue, which should be fixed. > > I'll submit the issue and we'll submit a fix. > > > Dave Tenerowicz wrote: >> Thank you! >> >> David E Jones wrote: >>> >>> Well, there ya go! >>> >>> The quick ship order stuff doesn't check stock levels... >>> >>> -David >>> >>> >>> On Oct 23, 2007, at 3:53 PM, Dave Tenerowicz wrote: >>> >>>> Yes, I should have mentioned that we created a new service to >>>> automatically create shipments. It calls quickShipOrder as part of >>>> it's processing. >>>> -Dave >>>> >>>> David E Jones wrote: >>>>> >>>>> What do you mean by "being created"? >>>>> >>>>> There isn't really anything that automatically creates shipments, >>>>> unless a human does it through some UI like the shipment or packing >>>>> screens (or a service or something was written to automatically do >>>>> it somehow). >>>>> >>>>> -David >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Oct 22, 2007, at 3:48 PM, Dave Tenerowicz wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> It appears that shipments are being created with out of stock >>>>>> items in an implementation we are doing. I am guessing this is due >>>>>> to product store settings, not a code issue. >>>>>> rev = 545314 >>>>>> check inventory=Y >>>>>> reserve inventory=Y >>>>>> require inventory=N >>>>>> >>>>>> All products are finished goods (no digital or virtual) >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks for any help. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Dave Tenerowicz >>>>>> [hidden email] >>>>>> >>>>>> Office: 303.493.6727 >>>>>> Mobile 303.906.6116 >>>>>> Fax 303.814.8330 >>>>>> >>>>>> Visit us at http://www.salmonllc.com >>>>>> For ERP Information: >>>>>> http://www.salmonllc.com/Jsp/vanity/ERP_CRM.jsp?nav=2&NavBarId=ERP_CRMServices >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Dave Tenerowicz >>>> [hidden email] >>>> >>>> Office: 303.493.6727 >>>> Mobile 303.906.6116 >>>> Fax 303.814.8330 >>>> >>>> Visit us at http://www.salmonllc.com >>>> For ERP Information: >>>> http://www.salmonllc.com/Jsp/vanity/ERP_CRM.jsp?nav=2&NavBarId=ERP_CRMServices >>>> >>>> >>> >> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.15.10/1091 - Release Date: 10/24/2007 2:31 PM |
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In reply to this post by BJ Freeman
Sage advice all!
-----Original Message----- From: BJ Freeman [mailto:[hidden email]] Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 7:47 PM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: shipments made for out of stock items Learned a valuable lesson from my Granddad and dad we have a mfgr company that was special niche for years we had competitors that tried to get market share but we were the leader in the field. so when I went to work for them, I was very concerned about the patents. they said. patents only keep them from stopping us from making it. but our innovation is what keeps up in front. so from my perspective, holding on to rights only protects me from someone saying I don't have the right to do it. with apache I don't worry about that. and my innovation keeps me ahead. what I share here is something I did months ago, but just getting around to adding it to ofbiz skip@theDevers sent the following on 10/24/2007 7:19 PM: > BJ > > You're way to easy on your customers. Giving us hard-axxxs a bad name. I > always keep the rights to the code I write unless it's a salaried long term > job. > > Skip > > -----Original Message----- > From: BJ Freeman [mailto:[hidden email]] > Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 5:44 PM > To: [hidden email] > Subject: Re: shipments made for out of stock items > > > the online service is fee based. sorry. > however what I am proposing here would be a big boone to us all > and that, after I get the supplier emails running, is my next task, if I > am allowed > > > Skip sent the following on 10/24/2007 5:36 PM: >> Wanna share the code? >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: BJ Freeman [mailto:[hidden email]] >> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 5:06 PM >> To: [hidden email] >> Subject: Re: shipments made for out of stock items >> >> >> skip I have implemented similar in the service I provide on line for >> webstores. >> been doing it since 1998. >> see my other email. >> >> Skip sent the following on 10/24/2007 5:04 PM: >>> BJ >>> >>> This logic gets very complicated very quickly. You can throw into the > mix >>> two dropship suppliers with different prices and shipping times. Maybe >> the >>> customer wants one and it comes in a box of 10. Its even more > complicated >>> if you require a 35% margin and getting that margin requires you to >> a >>> hundred. It gets even more complicated still if.... >>> >>> The application I am converting to Ofbiz took me two years to get right > in >>> this area ( at least right from the clients perspective). Two years of >>> tweeking that it is. I ended up with three scenerios, case 1 where I > knew >>> for sure what to do. Case 2 where I was pretty sure what to do, and case >>> three where I didn't have a clue. >>> >>> I ended up doing case 1 without operator intervention, and presenting 2 >>> separate lists of the last 2 cases to a human operator to approve. This >> has >>> worked in 21 installations of this application for over 15 years now and >> is >>> one of the few things I don't get complaints about or requests for >> changes. >>> Skip >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: BJ Freeman [mailto:[hidden email]] >>> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 4:36 PM >>> To: [hidden email] >>> Subject: Re: shipments made for out of stock items >>> >>> >>> Ok lets take it from the item issuance. >>> here is the scenario. >>> one product >>> two suppliers >>> one used to refill local stock >>> one one to dropship. >>> >>> so you may have local stock or it may be ordered from the supplier that >>> refills local stock. >>> and under certain circumstances the dropshipper is used. >>> >>> now you may check inventory which means look at any orders pending >>> and on determining that the delivery date is beyond the ship date to the >>> customer may opt to send the order to the Dropshipper. >>> >>> so putting in parms like use local inventory if with in so many days of >>> shipping date to customer >>> or if available use dropship under any circumstance to satisfy back >> orders. >>> Not sure if this goes with the product or inventory in a facility >>> I was thinking of having a place in the product to assign a service that >>> would best suit the configuration for a client. >>> >>> this would allow many scenarios with out really changing the programming >>> of ofbiz. >>> >>> >>> David E Jones sent the following on 10/24/2007 4:19 PM: >>>> I'm not sure I totally understand what you're looking at BJ... >>>> >>>> This may very well make sense as a configuration flag, either for a >>>> ProductStore or for a Facility, so specify whether or not shipping >>>> without inventory in stock is allowed. >>>> >>>> The Quick Ship Entire Order service would be affected by this, as would >>>> certain other things. The best place to implement it is probably in the >>>> issue order item to shipment service (the one that creates the >>>> ItemIssuance records). That's what actually takes thing out of stock >>>> does the stock out). >>>> >>>> -David >>>> >>>> >>>> On Oct 24, 2007, at 5:05 PM, BJ Freeman wrote: >>>> >>>>> if the inventory supplier is a dropshipper would be the consideration. >>>>> since you can have many suppliers for a product, you could have a >>>>> supplier you order from for your local supplier and a drop shipper as >>>>> well. >>>>> this would come under a scenario of determining best cost and delivery >>>>> of the product which is part of ERP. >>>>> >>>>> So I don't think a simple flag is the answer. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Skip sent the following on 10/24/2007 3:33 PM: >>>>>> BJ >>>>>> >>>>>> No, I have considered only my own needs. However, a property which >>>>>> determines the behavior satisfies both camps. >>>>>> >>>>>> Skip >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: BJ Freeman [mailto:[hidden email]] >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 1:27 PM >>>>>> To: [hidden email] >>>>>> Subject: Re: shipments made for out of stock items >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Skip have you consider the sequence for a dropshipper, and some >>>>>> fulfillment houses. >>>>>> you don't have their inventory. >>>>>> >>>>>> Skip sent the following on 10/24/2007 1:09 PM: >>>>>>> Dave >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I agree that this is a big hole/bug. On the other hand, there are >>>>>>> folks >>>>>> who >>>>>>> don't mind/prefer the sloppiness (I have a customer just like >>>>>>> that). So, >>>>>>> perhaps we could use a property to define the behavior, like: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ilikesloppybookkeeping=true/false (tongue in cheek) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> However, I would be happy to collaborate to get this done. I want >>>>>>> requirements and automatic backorders issued for out of stock etc >>>>>> quick >>>>>>> ship. I was just about to start work on this. We could modify the >>>>>> existing >>>>>>> service to look for a property and if it exists, do the better >>>>>>> bookkeeping >>>>>> / >>>>>>> automatic ordering. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This is a hole for me because if my customer has a customer at the >>>>>>> counter >>>>>>> and is selling him some stuff and part of it is on back order, he >>>>>>> has to >>>>>>> exit out of the sales order screen and go to the shipping screen to >>>>>>> get it >>>>>>> all done right. It's a pain and will happen 10 times a day for him. >>>>>> Fixing >>>>>>> the quickship will take care of it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Maybe with the configurable property, the muckity-mucks won't be so >>>>>>> reluctant to accept it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Skip >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: David E Jones [mailto:[hidden email]] >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:24 PM >>>>>>> To: [hidden email] >>>>>>> Subject: Re: shipments made for out of stock items >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Oct 24, 2007, at 6:41 AM, Dave Tenerowicz wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The more I think about this, it seems inappropriate for an ERP >>>>>>>> system to allow this. Why would the quick ship service allow a user >>>>>>>> to charge a customers credit card and "ship" a physical product >>>>>>>> that the system "knew" was not available? >>>>>>> For some users the system doesn't know everything... >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Before charging the card, the sales person would want to confirm >>>>>>>> that the goods were actually available. Once this was confirmed, it >>>>>>>> would take a facility worker 30 seconds to adjust the inventory, >>>>>>>> leaving an audit trail etc. >>>>>>> Yes, but not everyone wants to use it this way. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> To me this seems like a JIRA issue, which should be fixed. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'll submit the issue and we'll submit a fix. >>>>>>> It will most likely be rejected. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -David >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Dave Tenerowicz wrote: >>>>>>>>> Thank you! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> David E Jones wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Well, there ya go! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The quick ship order stuff doesn't check stock levels... >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -David >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Oct 23, 2007, at 3:53 PM, Dave Tenerowicz wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Yes, I should have mentioned that we created a new service to >>>>>>>>>>> automatically create shipments. It calls quickShipOrder as part >>>>>>>>>>> of it's processing. >>>>>>>>>>> -Dave >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> David E Jones wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> What do you mean by "being created"? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> There isn't really anything that automatically creates >>>>>>>>>>>> shipments, unless a human does it through some UI like the >>>>>>>>>>>> shipment or packing screens (or a service or something was >>>>>>>>>>>> written to automatically do it somehow). >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -David >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 22, 2007, at 3:48 PM, Dave Tenerowicz wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> It appears that shipments are being created with out of stock >>>>>>>>>>>>> items in an implementation we are doing. I am guessing this is >>>>>>>>>>>>> due to product store settings, not a code issue. >>>>>>>>>>>>> rev = 545314 >>>>>>>>>>>>> check inventory=Y >>>>>>>>>>>>> reserve inventory=Y >>>>>>>>>>>>> require inventory=N >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> All products are finished goods (no digital or virtual) >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for any help. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> Dave Tenerowicz >>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email] >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Office: 303.493.6727 >>>>>>>>>>>>> Mobile 303.906.6116 >>>>>>>>>>>>> Fax 303.814.8330 >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Visit us at http://www.salmonllc.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> For ERP Information: http://www.salmonllc.com/Jsp/vanity/ >>>>>>>>>>>>> ERP_CRM.jsp?nav=2&NavBarId=ERP_CRMServices >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> Dave Tenerowicz >>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email] >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Office: 303.493.6727 >>>>>>>>>>> Mobile 303.906.6116 >>>>>>>>>>> Fax 303.814.8330 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Visit us at http://www.salmonllc.com >>>>>>>>>>> For ERP Information: http://www.salmonllc.com/Jsp/vanity/ >>>>>>>>>>> ERP_CRM.jsp?nav=2&NavBarId=ERP_CRMServices >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Dave Tenerowicz >>>>>>>> [hidden email] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Office: 303.493.6727 >>>>>>>> Mobile 303.906.6116 >>>>>>>> Fax 303.814.8330 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Visit us at http://www.salmonllc.com >>>>>>>> For ERP Information: http://www.salmonllc.com/Jsp/vanity/ >>>>>>>> ERP_CRM.jsp?nav=2&NavBarId=ERP_CRMServices >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > > |
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In reply to this post by jonwimp
"So many people, so few lawmakers." Gads Jonathon, you obviously don't live
in the U.S where there are two lawmakers for every citizen! :) -----Original Message----- From: Jonathon -- Improov [mailto:[hidden email]] Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 7:52 PM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: shipments made for out of stock items Certainly inappropriate. There are also many other inappropriate (or largely missing) parts in OFBiz, like EFT handling (different in my part of the world, maybe). But we have to consider that we have many cooks (we all want in on it), and just one soup (OFBiz, framework, foundation functionalities). I always did wonder why my government doesn't make laws to prevent cyclists from cycling on pedestrian pavements/paths. Well, they did, once. But then, they realized that not everyone cycles at breakneck speeds like me. :) And cycling at crawl speeds on the roadsides can be terribly scary for most folks. So they removed the law. Yeah, they may need to make a law that fines me for cycling on pedestrian paths, just me. :P So many people, so few lawmakers. Jonathon Dave Tenerowicz wrote: > The more I think about this, it seems inappropriate for an ERP system to > allow this. Why would the quick ship service allow a user to charge a > customers credit card and "ship" a physical product that the system > "knew" was not available? > > Before charging the card, the sales person would want to confirm that > the goods were actually available. Once this was confirmed, it would > take a facility worker 30 seconds to adjust the inventory, leaving an > audit trail etc. > > To me this seems like a JIRA issue, which should be fixed. > > I'll submit the issue and we'll submit a fix. > > > Dave Tenerowicz wrote: >> Thank you! >> >> David E Jones wrote: >>> >>> Well, there ya go! >>> >>> The quick ship order stuff doesn't check stock levels... >>> >>> -David >>> >>> >>> On Oct 23, 2007, at 3:53 PM, Dave Tenerowicz wrote: >>> >>>> Yes, I should have mentioned that we created a new service to >>>> automatically create shipments. It calls quickShipOrder as part of >>>> it's processing. >>>> -Dave >>>> >>>> David E Jones wrote: >>>>> >>>>> What do you mean by "being created"? >>>>> >>>>> There isn't really anything that automatically creates shipments, >>>>> unless a human does it through some UI like the shipment or packing >>>>> screens (or a service or something was written to automatically do >>>>> it somehow). >>>>> >>>>> -David >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Oct 22, 2007, at 3:48 PM, Dave Tenerowicz wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> It appears that shipments are being created with out of stock >>>>>> items in an implementation we are doing. I am guessing this is due >>>>>> to product store settings, not a code issue. >>>>>> rev = 545314 >>>>>> check inventory=Y >>>>>> reserve inventory=Y >>>>>> require inventory=N >>>>>> >>>>>> All products are finished goods (no digital or virtual) >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks for any help. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Dave Tenerowicz >>>>>> [hidden email] >>>>>> >>>>>> Office: 303.493.6727 >>>>>> Mobile 303.906.6116 >>>>>> Fax 303.814.8330 >>>>>> >>>>>> Visit us at http://www.salmonllc.com >>>>>> For ERP Information: >>>>>> es >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Dave Tenerowicz >>>> [hidden email] >>>> >>>> Office: 303.493.6727 >>>> Mobile 303.906.6116 >>>> Fax 303.814.8330 >>>> >>>> Visit us at http://www.salmonllc.com >>>> For ERP Information: >>>> es >>>> >>>> >>> >> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.15.10/1091 - Release Date: |
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In reply to this post by SkipDever
I agree with BJ.
A lawyer friend here (very good lawyer too) also had the same idea that patents make for good control. I told him the exact same thing that BJ just mentioned. Patents make for clear concessions (for the patent holder). But then, lawyers do make a living suing for patent infringements. Just that for business folks, it's too much angst and trouble to file a suit that doesn't translate to constructive business endeavor (like making new products, services). It's about how fast we can move ahead, not about how much we can prevent others from moving ahead. Jonathon skip@theDevers wrote: > Sage advice all! > > -----Original Message----- > From: BJ Freeman [mailto:[hidden email]] > Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 7:47 PM > To: [hidden email] > Subject: Re: shipments made for out of stock items > > > Learned a valuable lesson from my Granddad and dad > we have a mfgr company that was special niche > for years we had competitors that tried to get market share > but we were the leader in the field. > so when I went to work for them, I was very concerned about the patents. > they said. > patents only keep them from stopping us from making it. > but our innovation is what keeps up in front. > so from my perspective, holding on to rights only protects me from > someone saying I don't have the right to do it. > with apache I don't worry about that. > and my innovation keeps me ahead. > what I share here is something I did months ago, but just getting around > to adding it to ofbiz > > > > skip@theDevers sent the following on 10/24/2007 7:19 PM: >> BJ >> >> You're way to easy on your customers. Giving us hard-axxxs a bad name. I >> always keep the rights to the code I write unless it's a salaried long > term >> job. >> >> Skip >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: BJ Freeman [mailto:[hidden email]] >> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 5:44 PM >> To: [hidden email] >> Subject: Re: shipments made for out of stock items >> >> >> the online service is fee based. sorry. >> however what I am proposing here would be a big boone to us all >> and that, after I get the supplier emails running, is my next task, if I >> am allowed >> >> >> Skip sent the following on 10/24/2007 5:36 PM: >>> Wanna share the code? >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: BJ Freeman [mailto:[hidden email]] >>> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 5:06 PM >>> To: [hidden email] >>> Subject: Re: shipments made for out of stock items >>> >>> >>> skip I have implemented similar in the service I provide on line for >>> webstores. >>> been doing it since 1998. >>> see my other email. >>> >>> Skip sent the following on 10/24/2007 5:04 PM: >>>> BJ >>>> >>>> This logic gets very complicated very quickly. You can throw into the >> mix >>>> two dropship suppliers with different prices and shipping times. Maybe >>> the >>>> customer wants one and it comes in a box of 10. Its even more >> complicated >>>> if you require a 35% margin and getting that margin requires you to > order >>> a >>>> hundred. It gets even more complicated still if.... >>>> >>>> The application I am converting to Ofbiz took me two years to get right >> in >>>> this area ( at least right from the clients perspective). Two years of >>>> tweeking that it is. I ended up with three scenerios, case 1 where I >> knew >>>> for sure what to do. Case 2 where I was pretty sure what to do, and > case >>>> three where I didn't have a clue. >>>> >>>> I ended up doing case 1 without operator intervention, and presenting 2 >>>> separate lists of the last 2 cases to a human operator to approve. This >>> has >>>> worked in 21 installations of this application for over 15 years now and >>> is >>>> one of the few things I don't get complaints about or requests for >>> changes. >>>> Skip >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: BJ Freeman [mailto:[hidden email]] >>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 4:36 PM >>>> To: [hidden email] >>>> Subject: Re: shipments made for out of stock items >>>> >>>> >>>> Ok lets take it from the item issuance. >>>> here is the scenario. >>>> one product >>>> two suppliers >>>> one used to refill local stock >>>> one one to dropship. >>>> >>>> so you may have local stock or it may be ordered from the supplier that >>>> refills local stock. >>>> and under certain circumstances the dropshipper is used. >>>> >>>> now you may check inventory which means look at any orders pending >>>> and on determining that the delivery date is beyond the ship date to the >>>> customer may opt to send the order to the Dropshipper. >>>> >>>> so putting in parms like use local inventory if with in so many days of >>>> shipping date to customer >>>> or if available use dropship under any circumstance to satisfy back >>> orders. >>>> Not sure if this goes with the product or inventory in a facility >>>> I was thinking of having a place in the product to assign a service that >>>> would best suit the configuration for a client. >>>> >>>> this would allow many scenarios with out really changing the programming >>>> of ofbiz. >>>> >>>> >>>> David E Jones sent the following on 10/24/2007 4:19 PM: >>>>> I'm not sure I totally understand what you're looking at BJ... >>>>> >>>>> This may very well make sense as a configuration flag, either for a >>>>> ProductStore or for a Facility, so specify whether or not shipping >>>>> without inventory in stock is allowed. >>>>> >>>>> The Quick Ship Entire Order service would be affected by this, as would >>>>> certain other things. The best place to implement it is probably in the >>>>> issue order item to shipment service (the one that creates the >>>>> ItemIssuance records). That's what actually takes thing out of stock > (ie >>>>> does the stock out). >>>>> >>>>> -David >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Oct 24, 2007, at 5:05 PM, BJ Freeman wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> if the inventory supplier is a dropshipper would be the consideration. >>>>>> since you can have many suppliers for a product, you could have a >>>>>> supplier you order from for your local supplier and a drop shipper as >>>>>> well. >>>>>> this would come under a scenario of determining best cost and delivery >>>>>> of the product which is part of ERP. >>>>>> >>>>>> So I don't think a simple flag is the answer. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Skip sent the following on 10/24/2007 3:33 PM: >>>>>>> BJ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> No, I have considered only my own needs. However, a property which >>>>>>> determines the behavior satisfies both camps. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Skip >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: BJ Freeman [mailto:[hidden email]] >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 1:27 PM >>>>>>> To: [hidden email] >>>>>>> Subject: Re: shipments made for out of stock items >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Skip have you consider the sequence for a dropshipper, and some >>>>>>> fulfillment houses. >>>>>>> you don't have their inventory. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Skip sent the following on 10/24/2007 1:09 PM: >>>>>>>> Dave >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I agree that this is a big hole/bug. On the other hand, there are >>>>>>>> folks >>>>>>> who >>>>>>>> don't mind/prefer the sloppiness (I have a customer just like >>>>>>>> that). So, >>>>>>>> perhaps we could use a property to define the behavior, like: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ilikesloppybookkeeping=true/false (tongue in cheek) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> However, I would be happy to collaborate to get this done. I want >>>>>>>> requirements and automatic backorders issued for out of stock etc > for >>>>>>> quick >>>>>>>> ship. I was just about to start work on this. We could modify the >>>>>>> existing >>>>>>>> service to look for a property and if it exists, do the better >>>>>>>> bookkeeping >>>>>>> / >>>>>>>> automatic ordering. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This is a hole for me because if my customer has a customer at the >>>>>>>> counter >>>>>>>> and is selling him some stuff and part of it is on back order, he >>>>>>>> has to >>>>>>>> exit out of the sales order screen and go to the shipping screen to >>>>>>>> get it >>>>>>>> all done right. It's a pain and will happen 10 times a day for him. >>>>>>> Fixing >>>>>>>> the quickship will take care of it. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Maybe with the configurable property, the muckity-mucks won't be so >>>>>>>> reluctant to accept it. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Skip >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: David E Jones [mailto:[hidden email]] >>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:24 PM >>>>>>>> To: [hidden email] >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: shipments made for out of stock items >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Oct 24, 2007, at 6:41 AM, Dave Tenerowicz wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The more I think about this, it seems inappropriate for an ERP >>>>>>>>> system to allow this. Why would the quick ship service allow a user >>>>>>>>> to charge a customers credit card and "ship" a physical product >>>>>>>>> that the system "knew" was not available? >>>>>>>> For some users the system doesn't know everything... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Before charging the card, the sales person would want to confirm >>>>>>>>> that the goods were actually available. Once this was confirmed, it >>>>>>>>> would take a facility worker 30 seconds to adjust the inventory, >>>>>>>>> leaving an audit trail etc. >>>>>>>> Yes, but not everyone wants to use it this way. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> To me this seems like a JIRA issue, which should be fixed. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I'll submit the issue and we'll submit a fix. >>>>>>>> It will most likely be rejected. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -David >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Dave Tenerowicz wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Thank you! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> David E Jones wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Well, there ya go! >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The quick ship order stuff doesn't check stock levels... >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -David >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 23, 2007, at 3:53 PM, Dave Tenerowicz wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, I should have mentioned that we created a new service to >>>>>>>>>>>> automatically create shipments. It calls quickShipOrder as part >>>>>>>>>>>> of it's processing. >>>>>>>>>>>> -Dave >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> David E Jones wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you mean by "being created"? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> There isn't really anything that automatically creates >>>>>>>>>>>>> shipments, unless a human does it through some UI like the >>>>>>>>>>>>> shipment or packing screens (or a service or something was >>>>>>>>>>>>> written to automatically do it somehow). >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -David >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 22, 2007, at 3:48 PM, Dave Tenerowicz wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> It appears that shipments are being created with out of stock >>>>>>>>>>>>>> items in an implementation we are doing. I am guessing this is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> due to product store settings, not a code issue. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> rev = 545314 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> check inventory=Y >>>>>>>>>>>>>> reserve inventory=Y >>>>>>>>>>>>>> require inventory=N >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> All products are finished goods (no digital or virtual) >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for any help. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dave Tenerowicz >>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email] >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Office: 303.493.6727 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mobile 303.906.6116 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fax 303.814.8330 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Visit us at http://www.salmonllc.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> For ERP Information: http://www.salmonllc.com/Jsp/vanity/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ERP_CRM.jsp?nav=2&NavBarId=ERP_CRMServices >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> Dave Tenerowicz >>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email] >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Office: 303.493.6727 >>>>>>>>>>>> Mobile 303.906.6116 >>>>>>>>>>>> Fax 303.814.8330 >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Visit us at http://www.salmonllc.com >>>>>>>>>>>> For ERP Information: http://www.salmonllc.com/Jsp/vanity/ >>>>>>>>>>>> ERP_CRM.jsp?nav=2&NavBarId=ERP_CRMServices >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Dave Tenerowicz >>>>>>>>> [hidden email] >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Office: 303.493.6727 >>>>>>>>> Mobile 303.906.6116 >>>>>>>>> Fax 303.814.8330 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Visit us at http://www.salmonllc.com >>>>>>>>> For ERP Information: http://www.salmonllc.com/Jsp/vanity/ >>>>>>>>> ERP_CRM.jsp?nav=2&NavBarId=ERP_CRMServices >>>>>>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > |
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