General questions

[PRONZATO Cedric RD-BIZZ-GRE]

Hi everybody,

 

I am reading OFBiz and mailing list since a few months (I say that for previous talks about the presence of noobs involved).

This said I will expose you things that I think could be enhanced in some parts of OFBiz:

 

1 - We (OFBiz) need better real life data showing firstly the whole possibility of applications (many tables are empty) and secondly a full range of items and catalogs.

I hope someone could export its data (I am sure also open source projects use OFBiz and are not constrained by commercial stuff). That is really needed when you want to develop new functionalities in OFBiz.

As for example, I would like to implement, test ... a "collaborative engine" but the task is already hard without have to make virtual products ...

So what do you think about that?

 

2 - I also think we could enhance the project building and perhaps the "project development speed" by using a better eclipse "layout". I am not an expert but I don't think have a so big project which is modularized in a single eclipse project.

Firstly have a subproject for each module will allow using eclipse compiler instead of using ant after editing files.

Secondly we can only open the sub projects we really need for the task we want to do.

Some times ago I tired to do it, but I did it on the wrong OFBiz subversion which caused to lose all my stuff to use the proper subversion. (Well that is the life).

So what do you think about that?

 

3 - I wanted to make a SMS demonstration application (sending and receiving), I based my code on the mail container because I feel they are same on much points. But I lack of knowledge about the design/pattern I must use to do it properly into the OFBiz architecture. As I am sure I am not alone on the question "how about to make a properly designed OFBiz application", there are perhaps some docs to do about that.

Once I am more formalized on questions and needs I will let you know and hope it will help as input to make these docs.

So what do you think about that?

 

Thx for the people who have reach the end of the mail and have read its content.

 

Regards,

Cédric

[Chandresh Turakhia]

Hi,

I will try to answer Q3 ) Did some work on the same. Check (A3)

Team , Please double check my answer. My hacks may not be the best . There
is always better way !! and let the best win.

Chand
----- Original Message -----
From: "PRONZATO Cedric RD-BIZZ-GRE" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 1:50 AM
Subject: General questions


Hi everybody,



I am reading OFBiz and mailing list since a few months (I say that for
previous talks about the presence of noobs involved).

This said I will expose you things that I think could be enhanced in some
parts of OFBiz:



1 - We (OFBiz) need better real life data showing firstly the whole
possibility of applications (many tables are empty) and secondly a full
range of items and catalogs.

I hope someone could export its data (I am sure also open source projects
use OFBiz and are not constrained by commercial stuff). That is really
needed when you want to develop new functionalities in OFBiz.

As for example, I would like to implement, test ... a "collaborative engine"
but the task is already hard without have to make virtual products ...

So what do you think about that?



2 - I also think we could enhance the project building and perhaps the
"project development speed" by using a better eclipse "layout". I am not an
expert but I don't think have a so big project which is modularized in a
single eclipse project.

Firstly have a subproject for each module will allow using eclipse compiler
instead of using ant after editing files.

Secondly we can only open the sub projects we really need for the task we
want to do.

Some times ago I tired to do it, but I did it on the wrong OFBiz subversion
which caused to lose all my stuff to use the proper subversion. (Well that
is the life).

So what do you think about that?



3 - I wanted to make a SMS demonstration application (sending and
receiving), I based my code on the mail container because I feel they are
same on much points. But I lack of knowledge about the design/pattern I must
use to do it properly into the OFBiz architecture. As I am sure I am not
alone on the question "how about to make a properly designed OFBiz
application", there are perhaps some docs to do about that.

Once I am more formalized on questions and needs I will let you know and
hope it will help as input to make these docs.

So what do you think about that?

 A3)

Step 1 )ofbiz\framework\minilang\src\org\ofbiz\minilang\method\callops or
some directory Like CallService.java , make CallSMSHandler.java

All you might have to do is call http hit on kannel url.

Step 2 ) ofbiz\framework\minilang\dtd  . IN simple-methods.xsd ; define tag
"call-sms" for it

Step 3 ) In ofbiz\framework\minilang\src\org\ofbiz\minilang , Add following
code in SimpleMethod.java

if ("call-sms".equals(nodeName)) {
                    methodOperations.add(new
org.ofbiz.minilang.method.callops.CallSMSHandler(curOperElem,
simpleMethod));
                }


Hope I am right :)

Thx for the people who have reach the end of the mail and have read its
content.



Regards,

Cédric

[PRONZATO Cedric RD-BIZZ-GRE]

Hi,

Okay, I understand what you did. The component I planned to do was able to also act as a SMS Service (you know these short numbers) using the SMSC protocol. As for exemple it could allow you to pay, command (anything you may ever think using a cell phone).
But you points me out a new part (for me) of OFBiz and that confirms the need of documentations related to: "how about to make my component well designed in this or this case".

Thx,
Cédric

-----Message d'origine-----
De : Chandresh Turakhia [mailto:[hidden email]]
Envoyé : vendredi 9 février 2007 11:12
À : [hidden email]
Objet : Re: General questions

Hi,

I will try to answer Q3 ) Did some work on the same. Check (A3)

Team , Please double check my answer. My hacks may not be the best . There is always better way !! and let the best win.

Chand
----- Original Message -----
From: "PRONZATO Cedric RD-BIZZ-GRE" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 1:50 AM
Subject: General questions


Hi everybody,



I am reading OFBiz and mailing list since a few months (I say that for
previous talks about the presence of noobs involved).

This said I will expose you things that I think could be enhanced in some
parts of OFBiz:



1 - We (OFBiz) need better real life data showing firstly the whole
possibility of applications (many tables are empty) and secondly a full
range of items and catalogs.

I hope someone could export its data (I am sure also open source projects
use OFBiz and are not constrained by commercial stuff). That is really
needed when you want to develop new functionalities in OFBiz.

As for example, I would like to implement, test ... a "collaborative engine"
but the task is already hard without have to make virtual products ...

So what do you think about that?



2 - I also think we could enhance the project building and perhaps the
"project development speed" by using a better eclipse "layout". I am not an
expert but I don't think have a so big project which is modularized in a
single eclipse project.

Firstly have a subproject for each module will allow using eclipse compiler
instead of using ant after editing files.

Secondly we can only open the sub projects we really need for the task we
want to do.

Some times ago I tired to do it, but I did it on the wrong OFBiz subversion
which caused to lose all my stuff to use the proper subversion. (Well that
is the life).

So what do you think about that?



3 - I wanted to make a SMS demonstration application (sending and
receiving), I based my code on the mail container because I feel they are
same on much points. But I lack of knowledge about the design/pattern I must
use to do it properly into the OFBiz architecture. As I am sure I am not
alone on the question "how about to make a properly designed OFBiz
application", there are perhaps some docs to do about that.

Once I am more formalized on questions and needs I will let you know and
hope it will help as input to make these docs.

So what do you think about that?

 A3)

Step 1 )ofbiz\framework\minilang\src\org\ofbiz\minilang\method\callops or
some directory Like CallService.java , make CallSMSHandler.java

All you might have to do is call http hit on kannel url.

Step 2 ) ofbiz\framework\minilang\dtd  . IN simple-methods.xsd ; define tag
"call-sms" for it

Step 3 ) In ofbiz\framework\minilang\src\org\ofbiz\minilang , Add following
code in SimpleMethod.java

if ("call-sms".equals(nodeName)) {
                    methodOperations.add(new
org.ofbiz.minilang.method.callops.CallSMSHandler(curOperElem,
simpleMethod));
                }


Hope I am right :)

Thx for the people who have reach the end of the mail and have read its
content.



Regards,

Cédric

[Jacques Le Roux]

Cedric,

Only responses to 2 and 3

>2 - I also think we could enhance the project building and perhaps the "project development speed" by using a better eclipse
"layout". I am not an expert but I don't think have a so big project which is modularized in a single eclipse project.

>Firstly have a subproject for each module will allow using eclipse compiler instead of using ant after editing files.
Why not running only the component build.xml thru ant in Eclipse (Contextual menu Run As/Ant Build) ?

>Secondly we can only open the sub projects we really need for the task we want to do.
Not sure this makes really sense as there is some interdependance between components

>3 - I wanted to make a SMS demonstration application (sending and receiving), I based my code on the mail container because I feel
they are same on much points. But I lack of knowledge about the design/pattern I must use to do it properly into the OFBiz
architecture. As I am sure I am not alone on the question "how about to make a properly designed OFBiz application", there are
perhaps some docs to do about that.

Did you read the Data Model Ressource Book (at least Vol. 1) recommended in http://ofbiz.apache.org/documents.html ?

Jacques

[cjhowe]

I'm shocked Jacques, this is a perfect opportunity to plug Mylar :-)

--- Jacques Le Roux <[hidden email]> wrote in reply to
Cédric:
> >Secondly we can only open the sub projects we really need for the
> task we want to do.
> Not sure this makes really sense as there is some interdependance
> between components
>

You should really checkout the Mylar http://www.eclipse.org/mylar/
plugin for eclipse.  It will really help you to be task focused given
the interdependence that exists.  Especially the interdependence you
will be creating with your custom applications.

Cédric,
I hope I am wrong on this, but your question regarding the eclipse
layout suggests to me you might be customizing OFBiz by editing OFBiz
components themselves (ie making changes in the
applications/ecommerce/... folder directly) instead of extending OFBiz
with your own custom components (ie hotdeploy/myapp/...).  This can get
you in a big mess when you go to update OFBiz.  If you could confirm
how you are customizing, the community and I may be able to help you
get things reorganized and save your "such is life" headache from
occurring again.

[Chandresh Turakhia]

Add ServiceMix to the jingle. :)

I am not the best fan of Ofbiz web controller. It is nice and simple but
still needs help for multimodal architecture.

Also look at http://cargo.codehaus.org/ if you plan to start stop SMS
Container for reliability reasons in case of multiple kannels. I could not
till now make it work. But it should technically.

>>>pay, command (anything you may ever think using a cell phone).

Separate Instances of the ofbiz as "WebController" ofbiz and "Service
Engine" ofbiz. Struts2 can be morphed into great MultiModalContainer  ( No
longer WebContainer ). Try Putting "Service Engines" of ofbiz as
ServiceEngine of ServiceMiz.

This is what I am trying to achieve. Shall do it.

>> Pay --- ofbiz has lot of Connectors but No banking Connectors :( . German
>> Banking or european banking connector is available in opensource. Please
>> check which helps you. Indian banking does not believe in
>> standardizations.



----- Original Message -----
From: "PRONZATO Cedric RD-BIZZ-GRE" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 2:34 AM
Subject: RE: General questions

> Hi,
>
> Okay, I understand what you did. The component I planned to do was able to
> also act as a SMS Service (you know these short numbers) using the SMSC
> protocol. As for exemple it could allow you to pay, command (anything you
> may ever think using a cell phone).
> But you points me out a new part (for me) of OFBiz and that confirms the
> need of documentations related to: "how about to make my component well
> designed in this or this case".
>
> Thx,
> Cédric
>
> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : Chandresh Turakhia [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Envoyé : vendredi 9 février 2007 11:12
> À : [hidden email]
> Objet : Re: General questions
>
> Hi,
>
> I will try to answer Q3 ) Did some work on the same. Check (A3)
>
> Team , Please double check my answer. My hacks may not be the best . There
> is always better way !! and let the best win.
>
> Chand
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "PRONZATO Cedric RD-BIZZ-GRE" <[hidden email]>
> To: <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 1:50 AM
> Subject: General questions
>
>
> Hi everybody,
>
>
>
> I am reading OFBiz and mailing list since a few months (I say that for
> previous talks about the presence of noobs involved).
>
> This said I will expose you things that I think could be enhanced in some
> parts of OFBiz:
>
>
>
> 1 - We (OFBiz) need better real life data showing firstly the whole
> possibility of applications (many tables are empty) and secondly a full
> range of items and catalogs.
>
> I hope someone could export its data (I am sure also open source projects
> use OFBiz and are not constrained by commercial stuff). That is really
> needed when you want to develop new functionalities in OFBiz.
>
> As for example, I would like to implement, test ... a "collaborative
> engine"
> but the task is already hard without have to make virtual products ...
>
> So what do you think about that?
>
>
>
> 2 - I also think we could enhance the project building and perhaps the
> "project development speed" by using a better eclipse "layout". I am not
> an
> expert but I don't think have a so big project which is modularized in a
> single eclipse project.
>
> Firstly have a subproject for each module will allow using eclipse
> compiler
> instead of using ant after editing files.
>
> Secondly we can only open the sub projects we really need for the task we
> want to do.
>
> Some times ago I tired to do it, but I did it on the wrong OFBiz
> subversion
> which caused to lose all my stuff to use the proper subversion. (Well that
> is the life).
>
> So what do you think about that?
>
>
>
> 3 - I wanted to make a SMS demonstration application (sending and
> receiving), I based my code on the mail container because I feel they are
> same on much points. But I lack of knowledge about the design/pattern I
> must
> use to do it properly into the OFBiz architecture. As I am sure I am not
> alone on the question "how about to make a properly designed OFBiz
> application", there are perhaps some docs to do about that.
>
> Once I am more formalized on questions and needs I will let you know and
> hope it will help as input to make these docs.
>
> So what do you think about that?
>
> A3)
>
> Step 1 )ofbiz\framework\minilang\src\org\ofbiz\minilang\method\callops or
> some directory Like CallService.java , make CallSMSHandler.java
>
> All you might have to do is call http hit on kannel url.
>
> Step 2 ) ofbiz\framework\minilang\dtd  . IN simple-methods.xsd ; define
> tag
> "call-sms" for it
>
> Step 3 ) In ofbiz\framework\minilang\src\org\ofbiz\minilang , Add
> following
> code in SimpleMethod.java
>
> if ("call-sms".equals(nodeName)) {
>                    methodOperations.add(new
> org.ofbiz.minilang.method.callops.CallSMSHandler(curOperElem,
> simpleMethod));
>                }
>
>
> Hope I am right :)
>
> Thx for the people who have reach the end of the mail and have read its
> content.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Cédric
>
>
>
>
>

[PRONZATO Cedric RD-BIZZ-GRE]

Re Jacques,

-----Message d'origine-----
De : Jacques Le Roux [mailto:[hidden email]]
Envoyé : vendredi 9 février 2007 11:38
À : [hidden email]
Objet : Re: General questions

>Cedric,

>Only responses to 2 and 3

>>2 - I also think we could enhance the project building and perhaps the
>>"project development speed" by using a better eclipse
>>"layout". I am not an expert but I don't think have a so big project which is modularized in a single eclipse project.
>>Firstly have a subproject for each module will allow using eclipse compiler instead of using ant after editing files.
>Why not running only the component build.xml thru ant in Eclipse (Contextual menu Run As/Ant Build) ?

The aim would be at the end to have tomcat running in auto "auto redeploy" on file change. Well, I am the kind of people who use the result to drive the input (aka noobs or whatever you call this behaviour). So having to use ant and so on to redeploy the application is a bit heavy.
By the way I don't know if it is crappy to do that or no, that is why I ask =)

>>Secondly we can only open the sub projects we really need for the task we want to do.
>Not sure this makes really sense as there is some interdependance between components
Well, there are dependencies but right now we don't see them much (the "depends-on" tags is never used in the current components).
So having the "depends-on" filled and having the mimic in eclipse subprojects is, I think, a good idea.

>>3 - I wanted to make a SMS demonstration application (sending and
>>receiving), I based my code on the mail container because I feel
>>they are same on much points. But I lack of knowledge about the design/pattern I must use to do it properly into the OFBiz >>architecture. As I am sure I am not alone on the question "how about to make a properly designed OFBiz application", there >>are perhaps some docs to do about that.

>Did you read the Data Model Ressource Book (at least Vol. 1) recommended in http://ofbiz.apache.org/documents.html ?
I have to admin that the answer is no. But what is needed is a documentation on that point related to OFBiz architecture only. "Not a general book."

>>Jacques

Cédric,

[PRONZATO Cedric RD-BIZZ-GRE]

Hi Chris,

Indeed it was for customizations, and yes I saw that modifying the existing source code is not the best. But even that, isn't that bad to have this component view into eclipse either? I don't know if a bench exists somewhere to tell us if it has a performance sense to only open the subsprojects you really need.

Customization question is the second question any OFBiz user is faced. I still not have answered to it because yet I didn't make any component for OFBiz.
I am not sure to have see a topic on that in the wiki, if you (gods) have the time to make to us (beginners) a little section about that.
- What is the strategy to use to extend functionalities of a component?
- What is the strategy to use to only change the presentation of a component?
- What is the strategy to use to change the implementation of a component?
- ...
- What is the strategy to use to make a new component (this one is the only one I can answer and being sure: hotdeploy folder)

These questions are perhaps not the best, it is just a try to explain to you.

Beside that I am also still not sure about the subversion strategy to use to handle my customizations. I am aware software vendor branches (also explain in the wiki) but till I did not try it for real I will not be sure because it seems to be painful.

Thx,
Cédric

-----Message d'origine-----
De : Chris Howe [mailto:[hidden email]]
Envoyé : vendredi 9 février 2007 12:04
À : [hidden email]; Jacques Le Roux
Objet : Re: General questions

I'm shocked Jacques, this is a perfect opportunity to plug Mylar :-)

--- Jacques Le Roux <[hidden email]> wrote in reply to
Cédric:
> >Secondly we can only open the sub projects we really need for the
> task we want to do.
> Not sure this makes really sense as there is some interdependance
> between components
>

You should really checkout the Mylar http://www.eclipse.org/mylar/ plugin for eclipse.  It will really help you to be task focused given the interdependence that exists.  Especially the interdependence you will be creating with your custom applications.

Cédric,
I hope I am wrong on this, but your question regarding the eclipse layout suggests to me you might be customizing OFBiz by editing OFBiz components themselves (ie making changes in the applications/ecommerce/... folder directly) instead of extending OFBiz with your own custom components (ie hotdeploy/myapp/...).  This can get you in a big mess when you go to update OFBiz.  If you could confirm how you are customizing, the community and I may be able to help you get things reorganized and save your "such is life" headache from occurring again.

[cjhowe]

comments inline.
--- PRONZATO Cedric RD-BIZZ-GRE <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Hi Chris,
>
> Indeed it was for customizations, and yes I saw that modifying the
> existing source code is not the best. But even that, isn't that bad
> to have this component view into eclipse either? I don't know if a
> bench exists somewhere to tell us if it has a performance sense to
> only open the subsprojects you really need.
>
> Customization question is the second question any OFBiz user is
> faced. I still not have answered to it because yet I didn't make any
> component for OFBiz.
> I am not sure to have see a topic on that in the wiki, if you (gods)

no gods, we the people :-)

> have the time to make to us (beginners) a little section about that.
> - What is the strategy to use to extend functionalities of a
> component?

http://ofbizwiki.go-integral.com/Wiki.jsp?page=FAQ21

> - What is the strategy to use to only change the presentation of a
> component?

same. or if your change is only to the css, it's not that big of a
headache to only change the maincss.css or ecommain.css

> - What is the strategy to use to change the implementation of a
> component?

same.

> - ...
> - What is the strategy to use to make a new component (this one is
> the only one I can answer and being sure: hotdeploy folder)
>

same.

> These questions are perhaps not the best, it is just a try to explain
> to you.
>
> Beside that I am also still not sure about the subversion strategy to
> use to handle my customizations. I am aware software vendor branches
> (also explain in the wiki) but till I did not try it for real I will
> not be sure because it seems to be painful.

If you follow that FAQ, you won't be touching OFBiz code so Subversion
won't affect your customizations.  You will need to take notice though
if the functionality change in SVN changes the functionality of your
customizations because your customizations are relying on the
underlying OFBiz code.  Following this strategy and reading over the
documentation that exists for the widgets and simple-methods will be
the quickest way to move down the learning curve. Caveat being that
you're not creating whole new functionalities.

>
> Thx,
> Cédric
>
> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : Chris Howe [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Envoyé : vendredi 9 février 2007 12:04
> À : [hidden email]; Jacques Le Roux
> Objet : Re: General questions
>
> I'm shocked Jacques, this is a perfect opportunity to plug Mylar :-)
>
> --- Jacques Le Roux <[hidden email]> wrote in reply to
> Cédric:
> > >Secondly we can only open the sub projects we really need for the
> > task we want to do.
> > Not sure this makes really sense as there is some interdependance
> > between components
> >
>
> You should really checkout the Mylar http://www.eclipse.org/mylar/
> plugin for eclipse.  It will really help you to be task focused given
> the interdependence that exists.  Especially the interdependence you
> will be creating with your custom applications.
>
> Cédric,
> I hope I am wrong on this, but your question regarding the eclipse
> layout suggests to me you might be customizing OFBiz by editing OFBiz
> components themselves (ie making changes in the
> applications/ecommerce/... folder directly) instead of extending
> OFBiz with your own custom components (ie hotdeploy/myapp/...).  This
> can get you in a big mess when you go to update OFBiz.  If you could
> confirm how you are customizing, the community and I may be able to
> help you get things reorganized and save your "such is life" headache
> from occurring again.
>

[Chandresh Turakhia]

Cédric .

You asked what I was afraid to ask and spent too much time.Can I answer a bit quickly.shall answer again later. Will enlarge questions a bit.
This is how I did bit of my hacking.

> - What is the strategy to use to extend functionalities of a component?

       ---
       --- How do add / delete predefined columns in database ===> entity*.xml
                NOTE : it does not remove columns after run-install. But still manageale.
        ---- will it affect my code. How many places should I have change the code if 1 field is added or removed.
                No exact answer... Can someone help.
   
        --- How do change the business process.
                --- Shark is being added.
                        Hopefully it becomes simpler
                        There needs to "Strategy" Pattern to be used. SubClass can vary functionality.


> - What is the strategy to use to only change the presentation of a component?

        -- CSS only change. Could not do anything.

        -- Can I request THIS FEATURE. Ofbiz Uses FreeMarker, but I feel there is still room for improvement.
  a..    Store .html files and .ftl related code in separate files and make .ftl using XSLT in ant-pre-built.
  b..    In this way normal HTML editors can be used. I could find any editor ftl good enough.
  c..    This allows integration with Device Management XSLT easily. ( Device based Widget creation )
           
> - What is the strategy to use to change the implementation of a component?

        Need Better IOC :) Check ML archieve.

More later. Nice if some one can discuss the feature I would like have - pros and cons.
Chand
----- Original Message -----
From: "PRONZATO Cedric RD-BIZZ-GRE" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 4:35 AM
Subject: RE: General questions

> Hi Chris,
>
> Indeed it was for customizations, and yes I saw that modifying the existing source code is not the best. But even that, isn't that bad to have this component view into eclipse either? I don't know if a bench exists somewhere to tell us if it has a performance sense to only open the subsprojects you really need.
>
> Customization question is the second question any OFBiz user is faced. I still not have answered to it because yet I didn't make any component for OFBiz.
> I am not sure to have see a topic on that in the wiki, if you (gods) have the time to make to us (beginners) a little section about that.
> - What is the strategy to use to extend functionalities of a component?
> - What is the strategy to use to only change the presentation of a component?
> - What is the strategy to use to change the implementation of a component?
> - ...
> - What is the strategy to use to make a new component (this one is the only one I can answer and being sure: hotdeploy folder)
>
> These questions are perhaps not the best, it is just a try to explain to you.
>
> Beside that I am also still not sure about the subversion strategy to use to handle my customizations. I am aware software vendor branches (also explain in the wiki) but till I did not try it for real I will not be sure because it seems to be painful.
>
> Thx,
> Cédric
>
> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : Chris Howe [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Envoyé : vendredi 9 février 2007 12:04
> À : [hidden email]; Jacques Le Roux
> Objet : Re: General questions
>
> I'm shocked Jacques, this is a perfect opportunity to plug Mylar :-)
>
> --- Jacques Le Roux <[hidden email]> wrote in reply to
> Cédric:
>> >Secondly we can only open the sub projects we really need for the
>> task we want to do.
>> Not sure this makes really sense as there is some interdependance
>> between components
>>
>
> You should really checkout the Mylar http://www.eclipse.org/mylar/ plugin for eclipse.  It will really help you to be task focused given the interdependence that exists.  Especially the interdependence you will be creating with your custom applications.
>
> Cédric,
> I hope I am wrong on this, but your question regarding the eclipse layout suggests to me you might be customizing OFBiz by editing OFBiz components themselves (ie making changes in the applications/ecommerce/... folder directly) instead of extending OFBiz with your own custom components (ie hotdeploy/myapp/...).  This can get you in a big mess when you go to update OFBiz.  If you could confirm how you are customizing, the community and I may be able to help you get things reorganized and save your "such is life" headache from occurring again.
>
>

[Adrian Crum]

PRONZATO Cedric RD-BIZZ-GRE wrote:
> 1 - We (OFBiz) need better real life data showing firstly the whole possibility of applications (many tables are empty) and secondly a full range of items and catalogs.

+1

[David E Jones]

On Feb 9, 2007, at 3:12 AM, Chandresh Turakhia wrote:

> 3 - I wanted to make a SMS demonstration application (sending and  
> receiving), I based my code on the mail container because I feel  
> they are same on much points. But I lack of knowledge about the  
> design/pattern I must use to do it properly into the OFBiz  
> architecture. As I am sure I am not alone on the question "how  
> about to make a properly designed OFBiz application", there are  
> perhaps some docs to do about that.
>
> Once I am more formalized on questions and needs I will let you  
> know and hope it will help as input to make these docs.
>
> So what do you think about that?
>
> A3)
>
> Step 1 )ofbiz\framework\minilang\src\org\ofbiz\minilang\method
> \callops or some directory Like CallService.java , make  
> CallSMSHandler.java
>
> All you might have to do is call http hit on kannel url.
>
> Step 2 ) ofbiz\framework\minilang\dtd  . IN simple-methods.xsd ;  
> define tag "call-sms" for it
>
> Step 3 ) In ofbiz\framework\minilang\src\org\ofbiz\minilang , Add  
> following code in SimpleMethod.java
>
> if ("call-sms".equals(nodeName)) {
>                    methodOperations.add(new  
> org.ofbiz.minilang.method.callops.CallSMSHandler(curOperElem,  
> simpleMethod));
>                }
>
>
> Hope I am right :)

Why would you do it that way and not just create a service to do this?

The simple-methods are not meant to have every little thing in it as  
an operation, that is why we have the service architecture...

-David

[David E Jones]

Pre-emptive design? That'd be cool.

For best practices and other such information, see the docs site here:

http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBADMIN/Development

-David


On Feb 9, 2007, at 3:34 AM, PRONZATO Cedric RD-BIZZ-GRE wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Okay, I understand what you did. The component I planned to do was  
> able to also act as a SMS Service (you know these short numbers)  
> using the SMSC protocol. As for exemple it could allow you to pay,  
> command (anything you may ever think using a cell phone).
> But you points me out a new part (for me) of OFBiz and that  
> confirms the need of documentations related to: "how about to make  
> my component well designed in this or this case".
>
> Thx,
> Cédric
>
> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : Chandresh Turakhia [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Envoyé : vendredi 9 février 2007 11:12
> À : [hidden email]
> Objet : Re: General questions
>
> Hi,
>
> I will try to answer Q3 ) Did some work on the same. Check (A3)
>
> Team , Please double check my answer. My hacks may not be the  
> best . There is always better way !! and let the best win.
>
> Chand
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "PRONZATO Cedric RD-BIZZ-GRE" <cedric.pronzato@orange-
> ftgroup.com>
> To: <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 1:50 AM
> Subject: General questions
>
>
> Hi everybody,
>
>
>
> I am reading OFBiz and mailing list since a few months (I say that for
> previous talks about the presence of noobs involved).
>
> This said I will expose you things that I think could be enhanced  
> in some
> parts of OFBiz:
>
>
>
> 1 - We (OFBiz) need better real life data showing firstly the whole
> possibility of applications (many tables are empty) and secondly a  
> full
> range of items and catalogs.
>
> I hope someone could export its data (I am sure also open source  
> projects
> use OFBiz and are not constrained by commercial stuff). That is really
> needed when you want to develop new functionalities in OFBiz.
>
> As for example, I would like to implement, test ... a  
> "collaborative engine"
> but the task is already hard without have to make virtual products ...
>
> So what do you think about that?
>
>
>
> 2 - I also think we could enhance the project building and perhaps the
> "project development speed" by using a better eclipse "layout". I  
> am not an
> expert but I don't think have a so big project which is modularized  
> in a
> single eclipse project.
>
> Firstly have a subproject for each module will allow using eclipse  
> compiler
> instead of using ant after editing files.
>
> Secondly we can only open the sub projects we really need for the  
> task we
> want to do.
>
> Some times ago I tired to do it, but I did it on the wrong OFBiz  
> subversion
> which caused to lose all my stuff to use the proper subversion.  
> (Well that
> is the life).
>
> So what do you think about that?
>
>
>
> 3 - I wanted to make a SMS demonstration application (sending and
> receiving), I based my code on the mail container because I feel  
> they are
> same on much points. But I lack of knowledge about the design/
> pattern I must
> use to do it properly into the OFBiz architecture. As I am sure I  
> am not
> alone on the question "how about to make a properly designed OFBiz
> application", there are perhaps some docs to do about that.
>
> Once I am more formalized on questions and needs I will let you  
> know and
> hope it will help as input to make these docs.
>
> So what do you think about that?
>
>  A3)
>
> Step 1 )ofbiz\framework\minilang\src\org\ofbiz\minilang\method
> \callops or
> some directory Like CallService.java , make CallSMSHandler.java
>
> All you might have to do is call http hit on kannel url.
>
> Step 2 ) ofbiz\framework\minilang\dtd  . IN simple-methods.xsd ;  
> define tag
> "call-sms" for it
>
> Step 3 ) In ofbiz\framework\minilang\src\org\ofbiz\minilang , Add  
> following
> code in SimpleMethod.java
>
> if ("call-sms".equals(nodeName)) {
>                     methodOperations.add(new
> org.ofbiz.minilang.method.callops.CallSMSHandler(curOperElem,
> simpleMethod));
>                 }
>
>
> Hope I am right :)
>
> Thx for the people who have reach the end of the mail and have read  
> its
> content.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Cédric
>
>
>

[David E Jones]

On Feb 9, 2007, at 4:08 AM, Chandresh Turakhia wrote:

> Add ServiceMix to the jingle. :)
>
> I am not the best fan of Ofbiz web controller. It is nice and  
> simple but still needs help for multimodal architecture.
>
> Also look at http://cargo.codehaus.org/ if you plan to start stop  
> SMS Container for reliability reasons in case of multiple kannels.  
> I could not till now make it work. But it should technically.
>
>>>> pay, command (anything you may ever think using a cell phone).
>
> Separate Instances of the ofbiz as "WebController" ofbiz and  
> "Service Engine" ofbiz. Struts2 can be morphed into great  
> MultiModalContainer  ( No longer WebContainer ). Try Putting  
> "Service Engines" of ofbiz as ServiceEngine of ServiceMiz.
>
> This is what I am trying to achieve. Shall do it.

It sounds like a nice thing, but what would be the point? In other  
words, what problems are you running into that it would solve?

-David

[David E Jones]

On Feb 9, 2007, at 5:14 AM, PRONZATO Cedric RD-BIZZ-GRE wrote:

>>> 3 - I wanted to make a SMS demonstration application (sending and
>>> receiving), I based my code on the mail container because I feel
>>> they are same on much points. But I lack of knowledge about the  
>>> design/pattern I must use to do it properly into the OFBiz  
>>> >>architecture. As I am sure I am not alone on the question "how  
>>> about to make a properly designed OFBiz application", there >>are  
>>> perhaps some docs to do about that.
>
>> Did you read the Data Model Ressource Book (at least Vol. 1)  
>> recommended in http://ofbiz.apache.org/documents.html ?
> I have to admin that the answer is no. But what is needed is a  
> documentation on that point related to OFBiz architecture only.  
> "Not a general book."

Check out docs.ofbiz.org. There is lots of good stuff there.

For an introduction to the framework, look at:

Framework Introduction Videos and Diagrams: http://docs.ofbiz.org/x/PQM

-David

[PRONZATO Cedric RD-BIZZ-GRE]

Re,

Okay, it is what I thought to do but now it is explicited. But is that working for all cases?

About the subverion, yes your files will not be impacted we doing updates but isn't it what we want? We want to know what gets modified, why, by who ... And with your solution it is hard and I guess bug prone.

A related problem is how to do "framework" components, I mean patterns. I think about my SMSC component, I base my code on the mail container and questions arised:
 - When do I have to make my own xml language (ie. MCA for the mail container)?
 - When do I have to make a Container? I guess the answer is if you have to manage the lifetime (create/release connections, ...).
 - When do I have to make an Engine?
 - ...

So I guess we can finish with the following statement: "How to *use* is quite well documented but how to *make* is a bit less".

PS: just for the background, my aim is not to use OFBiz in production. My aim is to use it as the ultimate *framework* that will help me to develop/show new functionalites/ideas. I am working in a R&D division, so perhaps my questions sounds a bit strange for some of you.

Thx,
Regards,
Cédric


-----Message d'origine-----
De : Chris Howe [mailto:[hidden email]]
Envoyé : vendredi 9 février 2007 14:17
À : [hidden email]
Objet : RE: General questions

comments inline.
--- PRONZATO Cedric RD-BIZZ-GRE <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Hi Chris,
>
> Indeed it was for customizations, and yes I saw that modifying the
> existing source code is not the best. But even that, isn't that bad to
> have this component view into eclipse either? I don't know if a bench
> exists somewhere to tell us if it has a performance sense to only open
> the subsprojects you really need.
>
> Customization question is the second question any OFBiz user is faced.
> I still not have answered to it because yet I didn't make any
> component for OFBiz.
> I am not sure to have see a topic on that in the wiki, if you (gods)

no gods, we the people :-)

> have the time to make to us (beginners) a little section about that.
> - What is the strategy to use to extend functionalities of a
> component?

http://ofbizwiki.go-integral.com/Wiki.jsp?page=FAQ21

> - What is the strategy to use to only change the presentation of a
> component?

same. or if your change is only to the css, it's not that big of a headache to only change the maincss.css or ecommain.css

> - What is the strategy to use to change the implementation of a
> component?

same.

> - ...
> - What is the strategy to use to make a new component (this one is the
> only one I can answer and being sure: hotdeploy folder)
>

same.

> These questions are perhaps not the best, it is just a try to explain
> to you.
>
> Beside that I am also still not sure about the subversion strategy to
> use to handle my customizations. I am aware software vendor branches
> (also explain in the wiki) but till I did not try it for real I will
> not be sure because it seems to be painful.

If you follow that FAQ, you won't be touching OFBiz code so Subversion won't affect your customizations.  You will need to take notice though if the functionality change in SVN changes the functionality of your customizations because your customizations are relying on the underlying OFBiz code.  Following this strategy and reading over the documentation that exists for the widgets and simple-methods will be the quickest way to move down the learning curve. Caveat being that you're not creating whole new functionalities.

>
> Thx,
> Cédric
>
> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : Chris Howe [mailto:[hidden email]] Envoyé : vendredi 9
> février 2007 12:04 À : [hidden email]; Jacques Le Roux Objet :
> Re: General questions
>
> I'm shocked Jacques, this is a perfect opportunity to plug Mylar :-)
>
> --- Jacques Le Roux <[hidden email]> wrote in reply to
> Cédric:
> > >Secondly we can only open the sub projects we really need for the
> > task we want to do.
> > Not sure this makes really sense as there is some interdependance
> > between components
> >
>
> You should really checkout the Mylar http://www.eclipse.org/mylar/ 
> plugin for eclipse.  It will really help you to be task focused given
> the interdependence that exists.  Especially the interdependence you
> will be creating with your custom applications.
>
> Cédric,
> I hope I am wrong on this, but your question regarding the eclipse
> layout suggests to me you might be customizing OFBiz by editing OFBiz
> components themselves (ie making changes in the
> applications/ecommerce/... folder directly) instead of extending OFBiz
> with your own custom components (ie hotdeploy/myapp/...).  This can
> get you in a big mess when you go to update OFBiz.  If you could
> confirm how you are customizing, the community and I may be able to
> help you get things reorganized and save your "such is life" headache
> from occurring again.
>

[David E Jones]

On Feb 9, 2007, at 9:12 AM, PRONZATO Cedric RD-BIZZ-GRE wrote:

> A related problem is how to do "framework" components, I mean  
> patterns. I think about my SMSC component, I base my code on the  
> mail container and questions arised:
>  - When do I have to make my own xml language (ie. MCA for the mail  
> container)?
>  - When do I have to make a Container? I guess the answer is if you  
> have to manage the lifetime (create/release connections, ...).
>  - When do I have to make an Engine?
>  - ...
>
> So I guess we can finish with the following statement: "How to  
> *use* is quite well documented but how to *make* is a bit less".

Have you ever found such a document for anything?

My usual approach is generally something like:

1. understand everything that exists, or research anything that is  
unclear
2. write something manually a number of times so you know what is  
always the same, and what varies
3. see if a paramerized tool would be helpful
4. apply a significant amount of "genius"
5. apply even more "sweat" to try stuff
6. create an incredible tool or service or however it is best  
implemented

If there was a way to make creation deterministic, what would be the  
point of creativity?

-David

[PRONZATO Cedric RD-BIZZ-GRE]

Re,

Yes you are true but I think I didn't explained myself.
These questions may have been answered in the javadocs. I am sure you know (you that architects of OFBiz) why you decided to make a Container class and so on.
So perhaps a little enhancement of javadoc on foundation classes to explain why and where to use it would be so nice.

I hope I do not look like too much arrogant with my questions on that thread "General questions"; I just expose the problems I was faced to.

Regards,
Cédric

-----Message d'origine-----
De : David E. Jones [mailto:[hidden email]]
Envoyé : vendredi 9 février 2007 18:12
À : [hidden email]
Objet : Re: General questions


On Feb 9, 2007, at 9:12 AM, PRONZATO Cedric RD-BIZZ-GRE wrote:

> A related problem is how to do "framework" components, I mean
> patterns. I think about my SMSC component, I base my code on the mail
> container and questions arised:
>  - When do I have to make my own xml language (ie. MCA for the mail
> container)?
>  - When do I have to make a Container? I guess the answer is if you
> have to manage the lifetime (create/release connections, ...).
>  - When do I have to make an Engine?
>  - ...
>
> So I guess we can finish with the following statement: "How to
> *use* is quite well documented but how to *make* is a bit less".

Have you ever found such a document for anything?

My usual approach is generally something like:

1. understand everything that exists, or research anything that is unclear 2. write something manually a number of times so you know what is always the same, and what varies 3. see if a paramerized tool would be helpful 4. apply a significant amount of "genius"
5. apply even more "sweat" to try stuff
6. create an incredible tool or service or however it is best implemented

If there was a way to make creation deterministic, what would be the point of creativity?

-David

[Adrian Crum]

Cedric,

I might be wrong, but I get the impression you are trying to approach OFBiz from
the bottom up (examining java classes versus examining higher-level layers). I
made that mistake when I first got involved with OFBiz.

It would be better to look at things like the service engine, entity engine,
screen widgets, etc. Get an idea of how the presentation layer works, then work
your way down to the service layer, then down to the database schema, etc.

Typically, the only reason anyone would want to get into the java source would
be to fix a bug or make a modification at a very low level of the architecture
"stack."



PRONZATO Cedric RD-BIZZ-GRE wrote:

> Re,
>
> Yes you are true but I think I didn't explained myself.
> These questions may have been answered in the javadocs. I am sure you know (you that architects of OFBiz) why you decided to make a Container class and so on.
> So perhaps a little enhancement of javadoc on foundation classes to explain why and where to use it would be so nice.
>
> I hope I do not look like too much arrogant with my questions on that thread "General questions"; I just expose the problems I was faced to.
>
> Regards,
> Cédric
>
> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : David E. Jones [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Envoyé : vendredi 9 février 2007 18:12
> À : [hidden email]
> Objet : Re: General questions
>
>
> On Feb 9, 2007, at 9:12 AM, PRONZATO Cedric RD-BIZZ-GRE wrote:
>
>
>>A related problem is how to do "framework" components, I mean
>>patterns. I think about my SMSC component, I base my code on the mail
>>container and questions arised:
>> - When do I have to make my own xml language (ie. MCA for the mail
>>container)?
>> - When do I have to make a Container? I guess the answer is if you
>>have to manage the lifetime (create/release connections, ...).
>> - When do I have to make an Engine?
>> - ...
>>
>>So I guess we can finish with the following statement: "How to
>>*use* is quite well documented but how to *make* is a bit less".
>
>
> Have you ever found such a document for anything?
>
> My usual approach is generally something like:
>
> 1. understand everything that exists, or research anything that is unclear 2. write something manually a number of times so you know what is always the same, and what varies 3. see if a paramerized tool would be helpful 4. apply a significant amount of "genius"
> 5. apply even more "sweat" to try stuff
> 6. create an incredible tool or service or however it is best implemented
>
> If there was a way to make creation deterministic, what would be the point of creativity?
>
> -David
>
>

[Jacques Le Roux]

I don't know if it's Cedric's case but I made the same mistake.

Jacques

> Cedric,
>
> I might be wrong, but I get the impression you are trying to approach OFBiz from
> the bottom up (examining java classes versus examining higher-level layers). I
> made that mistake when I first got involved with OFBiz.
>
> It would be better to look at things like the service engine, entity engine,
> screen widgets, etc. Get an idea of how the presentation layer works, then work
> your way down to the service layer, then down to the database schema, etc.
>
> Typically, the only reason anyone would want to get into the java source would
> be to fix a bug or make a modification at a very low level of the architecture
> "stack."
>
>
>
> PRONZATO Cedric RD-BIZZ-GRE wrote:
>
> > Re,
> >
> > Yes you are true but I think I didn't explained myself.
> > These questions may have been answered in the javadocs. I am sure you know (you that architects of OFBiz) why you decided to

make a Container class and so on.
> > So perhaps a little enhancement of javadoc on foundation classes to explain why and where to use it would be so nice.
> >
> > I hope I do not look like too much arrogant with my questions on that thread "General questions"; I just expose the problems I
was faced to.

> >
> > Regards,
> > Cédric
> >
> > -----Message d'origine-----
> > De : David E. Jones [mailto:[hidden email]]
> > Envoyé : vendredi 9 février 2007 18:12
> > À : [hidden email]
> > Objet : Re: General questions
> >
> >
> > On Feb 9, 2007, at 9:12 AM, PRONZATO Cedric RD-BIZZ-GRE wrote:
> >
> >
> >>A related problem is how to do "framework" components, I mean
> >>patterns. I think about my SMSC component, I base my code on the mail
> >>container and questions arised:
> >> - When do I have to make my own xml language (ie. MCA for the mail
> >>container)?
> >> - When do I have to make a Container? I guess the answer is if you
> >>have to manage the lifetime (create/release connections, ...).
> >> - When do I have to make an Engine?
> >> - ...
> >>
> >>So I guess we can finish with the following statement: "How to
> >>*use* is quite well documented but how to *make* is a bit less".
> >
> >
> > Have you ever found such a document for anything?
> >
> > My usual approach is generally something like:
> >
> > 1. understand everything that exists, or research anything that is unclear 2. write something manually a number of times so you

know what is always the same, and what varies 3. see if a paramerized tool would be helpful 4. apply a significant amount of
"genius"
> > 5. apply even more "sweat" to try stuff
> > 6. create an incredible tool or service or however it is best implemented
> >
> > If there was a way to make creation deterministic, what would be the point of creativity?
> >
> > -David
> >
> >