OFBiz In 2014

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OFBiz In 2014

Adrian Crum-3
Maybe we can use the start of the new year as an opportunity to consider
the future of OFBiz and update our road map:

https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBADMIN/New+Features+Roadmap+-+Living+Document


--
Adrian Crum
Sandglass Software
www.sandglass-software.com
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Re: OFBiz In 2014

Jacques Le Roux
Administrator
To be pragmatic, rather than working on new features, a new framework or whatever, I'd like to work on "Widget & Application HTML clean-up" https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5040

I have heard much complaints about this and I'd really like to 1st replace as much as possible the Freemarker templates used in backend by widget forms.

I know already some cases where it's impossible, like the geo location.
But in most cases this should be possible and would much facilitate designers work, when themes or such are needed.
Because we would then have a consistent HTML generation.
And in most cases even a better (consistent) UI, compare the old Price Rules and Promotions for instance
(still available at
https://demo-old.ofbiz.apache.org/catalog/control/EditProductPriceRules?productPriceRuleId=9000
https://demo-old.ofbiz.apache.org/catalog/control/EditProductPromoRules?productPromoId=9000
)

Because it contained a new FTL template, I recently refused to commit a working patch for "Improve to allow purchase order ship method options"  https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5387


I though must say that I still want to finish pending new features (actually 2 new specialpurpose components)

1) I expect to merge the seo branch soon https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5312.
I only see minor issues now, and anyway at some point you need to have your feet wet...

2) And to finish the Solr integration https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5042.
 I sill have to figure out how bad is the security issue. In a first step adding a credential acces to the the Solr admin should be enough. But yes underneath is not totally secured as is...

Jacques


On Tuesday, December 31, 2013 1:55 PM [hidden email] wrote
> Maybe we can use the start of the new year as an opportunity to consider
> the future of OFBiz and update our road map:
>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBADMIN/New+Features+Roadmap+-+Living+Document
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Re: OFBiz In 2014

Gavin Mabie-2
Hi Guys

Best wishes to everybody for 2014. I would like to support the
prioritisation of theme development for 2014.  Jacques, I noticed that you
are specifically talking about backend widget
 forms.  What about ecommerce?  IMO that little attention is given to
frontend design and even less is done to accommodate design-orientated
developers.   Theme developement in Ofbiz has a long way to go if it is to
reach the levels of standardisation, ease and portability attained and used
in CMS apps like Drupal, WordPress etc. and Ecommerce packages like
Magento.  Keep up the good work.

Gavin


On Sat, Jan 4, 2014 at 6:52 PM, Jacques Le Roux <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> To be pragmatic, rather than working on new features, a new framework or
> whatever, I'd like to work on "Widget & Application HTML clean-up"
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5040
>
> I have heard much complaints about this and I'd really like to 1st replace
> as much as possible the Freemarker templates used in backend by widget
> forms.
>
> I know already some cases where it's impossible, like the geo location.
> But in most cases this should be possible and would much facilitate
> designers work, when themes or such are needed.
> Because we would then have a consistent HTML generation.
> And in most cases even a better (consistent) UI, compare the old Price
> Rules and Promotions for instance
> (still available at
>
> https://demo-old.ofbiz.apache.org/catalog/control/EditProductPriceRules?productPriceRuleId=9000
>
> https://demo-old.ofbiz.apache.org/catalog/control/EditProductPromoRules?productPromoId=9000
> )
>
> Because it contained a new FTL template, I recently refused to commit a
> working patch for "Improve to allow purchase order ship method options"
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5387
>
>
> I though must say that I still want to finish pending new features
> (actually 2 new specialpurpose components)
>
> 1) I expect to merge the seo branch soon
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5312.
> I only see minor issues now, and anyway at some point you need to have
> your feet wet...
>
> 2) And to finish the Solr integration
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5042.
>  I sill have to figure out how bad is the security issue. In a first step
> adding a credential acces to the the Solr admin should be enough. But yes
> underneath is not totally secured as is...
>
> Jacques
>
>
> On Tuesday, December 31, 2013 1:55 PM [hidden email]
> > Maybe we can use the start of the new year as an opportunity to consider
> > the future of OFBiz and update our road map:
> >
> >
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBADMIN/New+Features+Roadmap+-+Living+Document
>
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Re: OFBiz In 2014

Adrian Crum-3
In reply to this post by Jacques Le Roux
Why is geo location impossible with screen widgets? We could create a
map widget.

Adrian Crum
Sandglass Software
www.sandglass-software.com

On 1/4/2014 11:52 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:

> To be pragmatic, rather than working on new features, a new framework or whatever, I'd like to work on "Widget & Application HTML clean-up" https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5040
>
> I have heard much complaints about this and I'd really like to 1st replace as much as possible the Freemarker templates used in backend by widget forms.
>
> I know already some cases where it's impossible, like the geo location.
> But in most cases this should be possible and would much facilitate designers work, when themes or such are needed.
> Because we would then have a consistent HTML generation.
> And in most cases even a better (consistent) UI, compare the old Price Rules and Promotions for instance
> (still available at
> https://demo-old.ofbiz.apache.org/catalog/control/EditProductPriceRules?productPriceRuleId=9000
> https://demo-old.ofbiz.apache.org/catalog/control/EditProductPromoRules?productPromoId=9000
> )
>
> Because it contained a new FTL template, I recently refused to commit a working patch for "Improve to allow purchase order ship method options"  https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5387
>
>
> I though must say that I still want to finish pending new features (actually 2 new specialpurpose components)
>
> 1) I expect to merge the seo branch soon https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5312.
> I only see minor issues now, and anyway at some point you need to have your feet wet...
>
> 2) And to finish the Solr integration https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5042.
>   I sill have to figure out how bad is the security issue. In a first step adding a credential acces to the the Solr admin should be enough. But yes underneath is not totally secured as is...
>
> Jacques
>
>
> On Tuesday, December 31, 2013 1:55 PM [hidden email] wrote
>> Maybe we can use the start of the new year as an opportunity to consider
>> the future of OFBiz and update our road map:
>>
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBADMIN/New+Features+Roadmap+-+Living+Document
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Re: OFBiz In 2014

Anil Patel-3
In reply to this post by Jacques Le Roux
My preference is to use freemarker. With Form widgets, Its nearly impossible to deliver UI/UX for todays.


Thanks and Regards
Anil Patel
Hotwax Media Inc
http://www.hotwaxmedia.com/
ApacheCon US 2013 Gold Sponsor
http://na.apachecon.com/sponsors/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jacques Le Roux" <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Saturday, January 4, 2014 11:52:34 AM
Subject: Re: OFBiz In 2014

To be pragmatic, rather than working on new features, a new framework or whatever, I'd like to work on "Widget & Application HTML clean-up" https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5040

I have heard much complaints about this and I'd really like to 1st replace as much as possible the Freemarker templates used in backend by widget forms.

I know already some cases where it's impossible, like the geo location.
But in most cases this should be possible and would much facilitate designers work, when themes or such are needed.
Because we would then have a consistent HTML generation.
And in most cases even a better (consistent) UI, compare the old Price Rules and Promotions for instance
(still available at
https://demo-old.ofbiz.apache.org/catalog/control/EditProductPriceRules?productPriceRuleId=9000
https://demo-old.ofbiz.apache.org/catalog/control/EditProductPromoRules?productPromoId=9000
)

Because it contained a new FTL template, I recently refused to commit a working patch for "Improve to allow purchase order ship method options"  https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5387


I though must say that I still want to finish pending new features (actually 2 new specialpurpose components)

1) I expect to merge the seo branch soon https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5312.
I only see minor issues now, and anyway at some point you need to have your feet wet...

2) And to finish the Solr integration https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5042.
 I sill have to figure out how bad is the security issue. In a first step adding a credential acces to the the Solr admin should be enough. But yes underneath is not totally secured as is...

Jacques


On Tuesday, December 31, 2013 1:55 PM [hidden email] wrote
> Maybe we can use the start of the new year as an opportunity to consider
> the future of OFBiz and update our road map:
>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBADMIN/New+Features+Roadmap+-+Living+Document
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Re: OFBiz In 2014

Anil Patel-3
In reply to this post by Jacques Le Roux
My preference is to use freemarker. With Form widgets, Its nearly impossible to deliver UI/UX for todays users.

Thanks and Regards
Anil Patel
Hotwax Media Inc
http://www.hotwaxmedia.com/
ApacheCon US 2013 Gold Sponsor
http://na.apachecon.com/sponsors/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jacques Le Roux" <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Saturday, January 4, 2014 11:52:34 AM
Subject: Re: OFBiz In 2014

To be pragmatic, rather than working on new features, a new framework or whatever, I'd like to work on "Widget & Application HTML clean-up" https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5040

I have heard much complaints about this and I'd really like to 1st replace as much as possible the Freemarker templates used in backend by widget forms.

I know already some cases where it's impossible, like the geo location.
But in most cases this should be possible and would much facilitate designers work, when themes or such are needed.
Because we would then have a consistent HTML generation.
And in most cases even a better (consistent) UI, compare the old Price Rules and Promotions for instance
(still available at
https://demo-old.ofbiz.apache.org/catalog/control/EditProductPriceRules?productPriceRuleId=9000
https://demo-old.ofbiz.apache.org/catalog/control/EditProductPromoRules?productPromoId=9000
)

Because it contained a new FTL template, I recently refused to commit a working patch for "Improve to allow purchase order ship method options"  https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5387


I though must say that I still want to finish pending new features (actually 2 new specialpurpose components)

1) I expect to merge the seo branch soon https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5312.
I only see minor issues now, and anyway at some point you need to have your feet wet...

2) And to finish the Solr integration https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5042.
 I sill have to figure out how bad is the security issue. In a first step adding a credential acces to the the Solr admin should be enough. But yes underneath is not totally secured as is...

Jacques


On Tuesday, December 31, 2013 1:55 PM [hidden email] wrote
> Maybe we can use the start of the new year as an opportunity to consider
> the future of OFBiz and update our road map:
>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBADMIN/New+Features+Roadmap+-+Living+Document
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Re: OFBiz In 2014

Adrian Crum-3
In reply to this post by Gavin Mabie-2
I have participated in a number of discussions along this line  -
beginning with the 2007 developers conference. My perspective back then
hasn't changed - instead of trying to make OFBiz more Drupal-like or
more WordPress-like, let's leave the job of CMS to existing products and
find ways to connect those products to OFBiz.

Adrian Crum
Sandglass Software
www.sandglass-software.com

On 1/4/2014 12:28 PM, Gavin Mabie wrote:

> Hi Guys
>
> Best wishes to everybody for 2014. I would like to support the
> prioritisation of theme development for 2014.  Jacques, I noticed that you
> are specifically talking about backend widget
>   forms.  What about ecommerce?  IMO that little attention is given to
> frontend design and even less is done to accommodate design-orientated
> developers.   Theme developement in Ofbiz has a long way to go if it is to
> reach the levels of standardisation, ease and portability attained and used
> in CMS apps like Drupal, WordPress etc. and Ecommerce packages like
> Magento.  Keep up the good work.
>
> Gavin
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 4, 2014 at 6:52 PM, Jacques Le Roux <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> To be pragmatic, rather than working on new features, a new framework or
>> whatever, I'd like to work on "Widget & Application HTML clean-up"
>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5040
>>
>> I have heard much complaints about this and I'd really like to 1st replace
>> as much as possible the Freemarker templates used in backend by widget
>> forms.
>>
>> I know already some cases where it's impossible, like the geo location.
>> But in most cases this should be possible and would much facilitate
>> designers work, when themes or such are needed.
>> Because we would then have a consistent HTML generation.
>> And in most cases even a better (consistent) UI, compare the old Price
>> Rules and Promotions for instance
>> (still available at
>>
>> https://demo-old.ofbiz.apache.org/catalog/control/EditProductPriceRules?productPriceRuleId=9000
>>
>> https://demo-old.ofbiz.apache.org/catalog/control/EditProductPromoRules?productPromoId=9000
>> )
>>
>> Because it contained a new FTL template, I recently refused to commit a
>> working patch for "Improve to allow purchase order ship method options"
>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5387
>>
>>
>> I though must say that I still want to finish pending new features
>> (actually 2 new specialpurpose components)
>>
>> 1) I expect to merge the seo branch soon
>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5312.
>> I only see minor issues now, and anyway at some point you need to have
>> your feet wet...
>>
>> 2) And to finish the Solr integration
>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5042.
>>   I sill have to figure out how bad is the security issue. In a first step
>> adding a credential acces to the the Solr admin should be enough. But yes
>> underneath is not totally secured as is...
>>
>> Jacques
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, December 31, 2013 1:55 PM [hidden email]
>>> Maybe we can use the start of the new year as an opportunity to consider
>>> the future of OFBiz and update our road map:
>>>
>>>
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBADMIN/New+Features+Roadmap+-+Living+Document
>>
>
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Re: OFBiz In 2014

Young Gu
Freemarker? For template, thymeleaf maybe a better alternative, it's UI
designer friendly.



Cheers
Young Gu | Senior Software Engineer | www.infor.com <http://killgfw.com/>


On Sun, Jan 5, 2014 at 2:09 AM, Adrian Crum <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> I have participated in a number of discussions along this line  -
> beginning with the 2007 developers conference. My perspective back then
> hasn't changed - instead of trying to make OFBiz more Drupal-like or more
> WordPress-like, let's leave the job of CMS to existing products and find
> ways to connect those products to OFBiz.
>
>
> Adrian Crum
> Sandglass Software
> www.sandglass-software.com
>
> On 1/4/2014 12:28 PM, Gavin Mabie wrote:
>
>> Hi Guys
>>
>> Best wishes to everybody for 2014. I would like to support the
>> prioritisation of theme development for 2014.  Jacques, I noticed that you
>> are specifically talking about backend widget
>>   forms.  What about ecommerce?  IMO that little attention is given to
>> frontend design and even less is done to accommodate design-orientated
>> developers.   Theme developement in Ofbiz has a long way to go if it is to
>> reach the levels of standardisation, ease and portability attained and
>> used
>> in CMS apps like Drupal, WordPress etc. and Ecommerce packages like
>> Magento.  Keep up the good work.
>>
>> Gavin
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jan 4, 2014 at 6:52 PM, Jacques Le Roux <
>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>  To be pragmatic, rather than working on new features, a new framework or
>>> whatever, I'd like to work on "Widget & Application HTML clean-up"
>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5040
>>>
>>> I have heard much complaints about this and I'd really like to 1st
>>> replace
>>> as much as possible the Freemarker templates used in backend by widget
>>> forms.
>>>
>>> I know already some cases where it's impossible, like the geo location.
>>> But in most cases this should be possible and would much facilitate
>>> designers work, when themes or such are needed.
>>> Because we would then have a consistent HTML generation.
>>> And in most cases even a better (consistent) UI, compare the old Price
>>> Rules and Promotions for instance
>>> (still available at
>>>
>>> https://demo-old.ofbiz.apache.org/catalog/control/EditProductPriceRules?
>>> productPriceRuleId=9000
>>>
>>> https://demo-old.ofbiz.apache.org/catalog/control/EditProductPromoRules?
>>> productPromoId=9000
>>> )
>>>
>>> Because it contained a new FTL template, I recently refused to commit a
>>> working patch for "Improve to allow purchase order ship method options"
>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5387
>>>
>>>
>>> I though must say that I still want to finish pending new features
>>> (actually 2 new specialpurpose components)
>>>
>>> 1) I expect to merge the seo branch soon
>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5312.
>>> I only see minor issues now, and anyway at some point you need to have
>>> your feet wet...
>>>
>>> 2) And to finish the Solr integration
>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5042.
>>>   I sill have to figure out how bad is the security issue. In a first
>>> step
>>> adding a credential acces to the the Solr admin should be enough. But yes
>>> underneath is not totally secured as is...
>>>
>>> Jacques
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, December 31, 2013 1:55 PM adrian.crum@sandglass-
>>> software.comwrote
>>>
>>>> Maybe we can use the start of the new year as an opportunity to consider
>>>> the future of OFBiz and update our road map:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBADMIN/
>>> New+Features+Roadmap+-+Living+Document
>>>
>>>
>>
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Re: OFBiz In 2014

Jacques Le Roux
Administrator
In reply to this post by Adrian Crum-3
Yes, maybe indeed

Jacques

On Saturday, January 04, 2014 7:03 PM [hidden email] wrote

> Why is geo location impossible with screen widgets? We could create a
> map widget.
>
> Adrian Crum
> Sandglass Software
> www.sandglass-software.com
>
> On 1/4/2014 11:52 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>> To be pragmatic, rather than working on new features, a new framework or whatever, I'd like to work on "Widget & Application
>> HTML clean-up" https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5040 
>>
>> I have heard much complaints about this and I'd really like to 1st replace as much as possible the Freemarker templates used in
>> backend by widget forms.
>>
>> I know already some cases where it's impossible, like the geo location.
>> But in most cases this should be possible and would much facilitate designers work, when themes or such are needed.
>> Because we would then have a consistent HTML generation.
>> And in most cases even a better (consistent) UI, compare the old Price Rules and Promotions for instance
>> (still available at
>> https://demo-old.ofbiz.apache.org/catalog/control/EditProductPriceRules?productPriceRuleId=9000
>> https://demo-old.ofbiz.apache.org/catalog/control/EditProductPromoRules?productPromoId=9000
>> )
>>
>> Because it contained a new FTL template, I recently refused to commit a working patch for "Improve to allow purchase order ship
>> method options"  https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5387 
>>
>>
>> I though must say that I still want to finish pending new features (actually 2 new specialpurpose components)
>>
>> 1) I expect to merge the seo branch soon https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5312.
>> I only see minor issues now, and anyway at some point you need to have your feet wet...
>>
>> 2) And to finish the Solr integration https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5042.
>>   I sill have to figure out how bad is the security issue. In a first step adding a credential acces to the the Solr admin
>> should be enough. But yes underneath is not totally secured as is...
>>
>> Jacques
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, December 31, 2013 1:55 PM [hidden email] wrote
>>> Maybe we can use the start of the new year as an opportunity to consider
>>> the future of OFBiz and update our road map:
>>>
>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBADMIN/New+Features+Roadmap+-+Living+Document
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Re: OFBiz In 2014

Adrian Crum-3
In reply to this post by Anil Patel-3
Looking at it another way, with screen widgets you can replace the
existing FreeMarker macros with your own - so the UI can look like anything.

I recently did that for 1Tech Ltd - where I replaced the HTML markup
with Sencha JavaScript.

Adrian Crum
Sandglass Software
www.sandglass-software.com

On 1/4/2014 1:09 PM, Anil K Patel wrote:

> My preference is to use freemarker. With Form widgets, Its nearly impossible to deliver UI/UX for todays users.
>
> Thanks and Regards
> Anil Patel
> Hotwax Media Inc
> http://www.hotwaxmedia.com/
> ApacheCon US 2013 Gold Sponsor
> http://na.apachecon.com/sponsors/
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jacques Le Roux" <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Sent: Saturday, January 4, 2014 11:52:34 AM
> Subject: Re: OFBiz In 2014
>
> To be pragmatic, rather than working on new features, a new framework or whatever, I'd like to work on "Widget & Application HTML clean-up" https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5040
>
> I have heard much complaints about this and I'd really like to 1st replace as much as possible the Freemarker templates used in backend by widget forms.
>
> I know already some cases where it's impossible, like the geo location.
> But in most cases this should be possible and would much facilitate designers work, when themes or such are needed.
> Because we would then have a consistent HTML generation.
> And in most cases even a better (consistent) UI, compare the old Price Rules and Promotions for instance
> (still available at
> https://demo-old.ofbiz.apache.org/catalog/control/EditProductPriceRules?productPriceRuleId=9000
> https://demo-old.ofbiz.apache.org/catalog/control/EditProductPromoRules?productPromoId=9000
> )
>
> Because it contained a new FTL template, I recently refused to commit a working patch for "Improve to allow purchase order ship method options"  https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5387
>
>
> I though must say that I still want to finish pending new features (actually 2 new specialpurpose components)
>
> 1) I expect to merge the seo branch soon https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5312.
> I only see minor issues now, and anyway at some point you need to have your feet wet...
>
> 2) And to finish the Solr integration https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5042.
>   I sill have to figure out how bad is the security issue. In a first step adding a credential acces to the the Solr admin should be enough. But yes underneath is not totally secured as is...
>
> Jacques
>
>
> On Tuesday, December 31, 2013 1:55 PM [hidden email] wrote
>> Maybe we can use the start of the new year as an opportunity to consider
>> the future of OFBiz and update our road map:
>>
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBADMIN/New+Features+Roadmap+-+Living+Document
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Re: OFBiz In 2014

Jacques Le Roux
Administrator
In reply to this post by Adrian Crum-3
I plently agree, this is what http://www.cato-commerce.com/ do for instance
OFBiz ecommerce frontend is just there to show what's possible to do with OFBiz in this area.

Jacques

On Saturday, January 04, 2014 7:09 PM [hidden email] wrote

> I have participated in a number of discussions along this line  -
> beginning with the 2007 developers conference. My perspective back then
> hasn't changed - instead of trying to make OFBiz more Drupal-like or
> more WordPress-like, let's leave the job of CMS to existing products and
> find ways to connect those products to OFBiz.
>
> Adrian Crum
> Sandglass Software
> www.sandglass-software.com
>
> On 1/4/2014 12:28 PM, Gavin Mabie wrote:
>> Hi Guys
>>
>> Best wishes to everybody for 2014. I would like to support the
>> prioritisation of theme development for 2014.  Jacques, I noticed that you
>> are specifically talking about backend widget
>>   forms.  What about ecommerce?  IMO that little attention is given to
>> frontend design and even less is done to accommodate design-orientated
>> developers.   Theme developement in Ofbiz has a long way to go if it is to
>> reach the levels of standardisation, ease and portability attained and used
>> in CMS apps like Drupal, WordPress etc. and Ecommerce packages like
>> Magento.  Keep up the good work.
>>
>> Gavin
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jan 4, 2014 at 6:52 PM, Jacques Le Roux <
>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> To be pragmatic, rather than working on new features, a new framework or
>>> whatever, I'd like to work on "Widget & Application HTML clean-up"
>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5040
>>>
>>> I have heard much complaints about this and I'd really like to 1st replace
>>> as much as possible the Freemarker templates used in backend by widget
>>> forms.
>>>
>>> I know already some cases where it's impossible, like the geo location.
>>> But in most cases this should be possible and would much facilitate
>>> designers work, when themes or such are needed.
>>> Because we would then have a consistent HTML generation.
>>> And in most cases even a better (consistent) UI, compare the old Price
>>> Rules and Promotions for instance
>>> (still available at
>>>
>>> https://demo-old.ofbiz.apache.org/catalog/control/EditProductPriceRules?productPriceRuleId=9000
>>>
>>> https://demo-old.ofbiz.apache.org/catalog/control/EditProductPromoRules?productPromoId=9000
>>> )
>>>
>>> Because it contained a new FTL template, I recently refused to commit a
>>> working patch for "Improve to allow purchase order ship method options"
>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5387
>>>
>>>
>>> I though must say that I still want to finish pending new features
>>> (actually 2 new specialpurpose components)
>>>
>>> 1) I expect to merge the seo branch soon
>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5312.
>>> I only see minor issues now, and anyway at some point you need to have
>>> your feet wet...
>>>
>>> 2) And to finish the Solr integration
>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5042.
>>>   I sill have to figure out how bad is the security issue. In a first step
>>> adding a credential acces to the the Solr admin should be enough. But yes
>>> underneath is not totally secured as is...
>>>
>>> Jacques
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, December 31, 2013 1:55 PM [hidden email]
>>>> Maybe we can use the start of the new year as an opportunity to consider
>>>> the future of OFBiz and update our road map:
>>>>
>>>>
>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBADMIN/New+Features+Roadmap+-+Living+Document
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Re: OFBiz In 2014

Gavin Mabie-2
In reply to this post by Adrian Crum-3
Hi Adrian

Interesting historical perspective. Quick question  .. does this mean that
the issue has been closed?  By the way, I'm not suggesting that Ofbiz be
made more Drupal/WordPress-like generally.  That would be ridiculous.  I'm
also not talking about CMS.  Rather, my idea is more focussed on the theme
development area, a functionality already existing in Ofbiz  but which does
not enjoy much attention.  The ecommerce frontend is the first impression
that most first time users get about the system and as such it represents
the whole Ofbiz brand.  I would venture to say that most first time
visitors would be inclined to abandon any further exploration based on
their first impression.  It is therefore imperative that more attention be
given to this area.

Regards

Gavin


On Sat, Jan 4, 2014 at 8:09 PM, Adrian Crum <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> I have participated in a number of discussions along this line  -
> beginning with the 2007 developers conference. My perspective back then
> hasn't changed - instead of trying to make OFBiz more Drupal-like or more
> WordPress-like, let's leave the job of CMS to existing products and find
> ways to connect those products to OFBiz.
>
>
> Adrian Crum
> Sandglass Software
> www.sandglass-software.com
>
> On 1/4/2014 12:28 PM, Gavin Mabie wrote:
>
>> Hi Guys
>>
>> Best wishes to everybody for 2014. I would like to support the
>> prioritisation of theme development for 2014.  Jacques, I noticed that you
>> are specifically talking about backend widget
>>   forms.  What about ecommerce?  IMO that little attention is given to
>> frontend design and even less is done to accommodate design-orientated
>> developers.   Theme developement in Ofbiz has a long way to go if it is to
>> reach the levels of standardisation, ease and portability attained and
>> used
>> in CMS apps like Drupal, WordPress etc. and Ecommerce packages like
>> Magento.  Keep up the good work.
>>
>> Gavin
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jan 4, 2014 at 6:52 PM, Jacques Le Roux <
>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>  To be pragmatic, rather than working on new features, a new framework or
>>> whatever, I'd like to work on "Widget & Application HTML clean-up"
>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5040
>>>
>>> I have heard much complaints about this and I'd really like to 1st
>>> replace
>>> as much as possible the Freemarker templates used in backend by widget
>>> forms.
>>>
>>> I know already some cases where it's impossible, like the geo location.
>>> But in most cases this should be possible and would much facilitate
>>> designers work, when themes or such are needed.
>>> Because we would then have a consistent HTML generation.
>>> And in most cases even a better (consistent) UI, compare the old Price
>>> Rules and Promotions for instance
>>> (still available at
>>>
>>> https://demo-old.ofbiz.apache.org/catalog/control/EditProductPriceRules?
>>> productPriceRuleId=9000
>>>
>>> https://demo-old.ofbiz.apache.org/catalog/control/EditProductPromoRules?
>>> productPromoId=9000
>>> )
>>>
>>> Because it contained a new FTL template, I recently refused to commit a
>>> working patch for "Improve to allow purchase order ship method options"
>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5387
>>>
>>>
>>> I though must say that I still want to finish pending new features
>>> (actually 2 new specialpurpose components)
>>>
>>> 1) I expect to merge the seo branch soon
>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5312.
>>> I only see minor issues now, and anyway at some point you need to have
>>> your feet wet...
>>>
>>> 2) And to finish the Solr integration
>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5042.
>>>   I sill have to figure out how bad is the security issue. In a first
>>> step
>>> adding a credential acces to the the Solr admin should be enough. But yes
>>> underneath is not totally secured as is...
>>>
>>> Jacques
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, December 31, 2013 1:55 PM adrian.crum@sandglass-
>>> software.comwrote
>>>
>>>> Maybe we can use the start of the new year as an opportunity to consider
>>>> the future of OFBiz and update our road map:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBADMIN/
>>> New+Features+Roadmap+-+Living+Document
>>>
>>>
>>
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Re: OFBiz In 2014

Adrian Crum-3
No, the issue isn't closed. I was merely expressing an opinion. This
type of thread is all about everyone sharing their ideas and opinions
and when we find a consensus or general support for an idea we add it to
the Wiki page. So, please don't feel like I am shutting the idea down.

I agree the eCommerce application needs work, and I agree its appearance
could have an effect on adoption.


Adrian Crum
Sandglass Software
www.sandglass-software.com

On 1/4/2014 3:57 PM, Gavin Mabie wrote:

> Hi Adrian
>
> Interesting historical perspective. Quick question  .. does this mean that
> the issue has been closed?  By the way, I'm not suggesting that Ofbiz be
> made more Drupal/WordPress-like generally.  That would be ridiculous.  I'm
> also not talking about CMS.  Rather, my idea is more focussed on the theme
> development area, a functionality already existing in Ofbiz  but which does
> not enjoy much attention.  The ecommerce frontend is the first impression
> that most first time users get about the system and as such it represents
> the whole Ofbiz brand.  I would venture to say that most first time
> visitors would be inclined to abandon any further exploration based on
> their first impression.  It is therefore imperative that more attention be
> given to this area.
>
> Regards
>
> Gavin
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 4, 2014 at 8:09 PM, Adrian Crum <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I have participated in a number of discussions along this line  -
>> beginning with the 2007 developers conference. My perspective back then
>> hasn't changed - instead of trying to make OFBiz more Drupal-like or more
>> WordPress-like, let's leave the job of CMS to existing products and find
>> ways to connect those products to OFBiz.
>>
>>
>> Adrian Crum
>> Sandglass Software
>> www.sandglass-software.com
>>
>> On 1/4/2014 12:28 PM, Gavin Mabie wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Guys
>>>
>>> Best wishes to everybody for 2014. I would like to support the
>>> prioritisation of theme development for 2014.  Jacques, I noticed that you
>>> are specifically talking about backend widget
>>>    forms.  What about ecommerce?  IMO that little attention is given to
>>> frontend design and even less is done to accommodate design-orientated
>>> developers.   Theme developement in Ofbiz has a long way to go if it is to
>>> reach the levels of standardisation, ease and portability attained and
>>> used
>>> in CMS apps like Drupal, WordPress etc. and Ecommerce packages like
>>> Magento.  Keep up the good work.
>>>
>>> Gavin
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jan 4, 2014 at 6:52 PM, Jacques Le Roux <
>>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>   To be pragmatic, rather than working on new features, a new framework or
>>>> whatever, I'd like to work on "Widget & Application HTML clean-up"
>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5040
>>>>
>>>> I have heard much complaints about this and I'd really like to 1st
>>>> replace
>>>> as much as possible the Freemarker templates used in backend by widget
>>>> forms.
>>>>
>>>> I know already some cases where it's impossible, like the geo location.
>>>> But in most cases this should be possible and would much facilitate
>>>> designers work, when themes or such are needed.
>>>> Because we would then have a consistent HTML generation.
>>>> And in most cases even a better (consistent) UI, compare the old Price
>>>> Rules and Promotions for instance
>>>> (still available at
>>>>
>>>> https://demo-old.ofbiz.apache.org/catalog/control/EditProductPriceRules?
>>>> productPriceRuleId=9000
>>>>
>>>> https://demo-old.ofbiz.apache.org/catalog/control/EditProductPromoRules?
>>>> productPromoId=9000
>>>> )
>>>>
>>>> Because it contained a new FTL template, I recently refused to commit a
>>>> working patch for "Improve to allow purchase order ship method options"
>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5387
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I though must say that I still want to finish pending new features
>>>> (actually 2 new specialpurpose components)
>>>>
>>>> 1) I expect to merge the seo branch soon
>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5312.
>>>> I only see minor issues now, and anyway at some point you need to have
>>>> your feet wet...
>>>>
>>>> 2) And to finish the Solr integration
>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5042.
>>>>    I sill have to figure out how bad is the security issue. In a first
>>>> step
>>>> adding a credential acces to the the Solr admin should be enough. But yes
>>>> underneath is not totally secured as is...
>>>>
>>>> Jacques
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tuesday, December 31, 2013 1:55 PM adrian.crum@sandglass-
>>>> software.comwrote
>>>>
>>>>> Maybe we can use the start of the new year as an opportunity to consider
>>>>> the future of OFBiz and update our road map:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>   https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBADMIN/
>>>> New+Features+Roadmap+-+Living+Document
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>
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Re: OFBiz In 2014

Pierre Smits
First of all, let me say that it is good to reflect on the roadmap again.
This should be done at regular intervals.
Secondly, I feel that this thread should have been initiated in the other
mailing list. Though many may follow this mailing list, not all do.
Discussions regarding vision and roadmap should involve all members of the
community.
Thirdly, I feel its a pity that many of the PMC and Committers don't jump
to the gun to share their opinions, visions and insights regarding the
future.


Apart/beyond the above I herewith share (some of) my thoughts on the more
technical topics the roadmap for 2014 and beyond should address.

I agree with Adrian and Jacques on the subject of CMS. Transformation of
OFBiz to solutions like Drupal et al is not needed. However, these
solutions have an evolved set of functionalities in order to integrate
components/plug-ins/add-ons, whether they are in the area of themes or
bespoke solutions like payment and shipment processors and others.

If I am correct, solutions like the big-fish (by Nick Rosser and his team)
, and the add-on manager (in Apache Extra - by the people of Nereide) are
steps in that direction. Maybe we can learn from these and others and
expand on them.

*Re: slimdown*
The path set in the recent past regarding slim down is a good path. This
should be continued. But, slim down should not be  about only focussing on
the framework. More visibility on the website should be created regarding
vision and roadmap. In the past also several apps/components/functions have
been earmarked as eligible for slimdown roadmap, but little actions have
been undertaken. I believe this has to do with fear. Fear that OFBiz is on
a path of self-destruction (becoming a framework-only solution, as seen
from the original viewpoint of the project), or - when not in a
framework-only roadmap - that there will be a diminished ownership by the
project. More communication regarding this issue should be undertaken.

As for payment and shipment processors, these all should move from current
place in applications (accounting and product) to hot-deployable components
(per payment processor, per shipment processor).. This way, each processor
can be selected and deployed when needed. It also creates more visibility
regarding the flexibility of the system, due to the fact that there are
plugins available that cater to customers/users specific needs. Plus it
might attract new solution developers to build/maintain these optionals.
But that requires more and unified communication.

I recently undertook the endeavour to move the iDEAL payment processor from
accounting to Apache Extra (see issues
OFBIZ-5303<https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5303>
 and OFBIZ-5443 <https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5443>), and
after evaluating the solution I came to conclusion that it is
broken/malfunctioning in its current design. While it is a pity that it is
as it is, and a shame that it was incorporated in accounting without
due-diligence, it is good that it is moved (as part of slimdown). It
improves the quality of the base component and makes the solution more
accessible. When more specific solutions move this way, the better it is.
Perceived quality of the total package is then less defined by the
individual component/solution/function (depending of course on the
viewpoint of the viewer).

*Focus should (also) be on performance, scalability and configurability*
Good performance increases the user experience. This involves both
Above-the-Line (screen build up - client side) and Below-the-Line (data
retrieval, logging, mail processing, etc - server side).
Regarding AtL (Above-the-Line)  this means leaving the concept that we
should only have web 1.0 functionality in components and apply web 2.0
functionality more and more.
Good performance also means minimizing the loops to include javascript
functions in screens and forms. Think of the date and lookup renderers. Per
line in overviews these functions are included whereas they could (and
should) be in a javascript file and called from there.

Of course, given the number of screens and forms in all the components this
means a lot of work, but Rome wasn't built in one day either.

Regarding BtL (Below-the-Line) this means more (better?) scalability
functions, but also configurability of where and when functions and
processes should be executed. Of course, this is related to multi-server
setups and multi-tenancy implementations.
This should also include deployability on external servers. This seems to
be broken and outdated.

Regarding configurability I see that we currently have over 1200
configurable properties in .properties files. Some of these are used for
startup, some for development, some for deployment and some for testing.
And there are overlapping situations. But the majority of the properties
are to be used in production environment. In single (internal)
organisation,  single tenant (default)  and single server setup this is ok
as it works. But in a multi (internal) organisation, multi tenant and multi
server setup this is inadequate. In such scenarios the default values on
user, organisation and tenant level must also be set and act like in
.properties files act like failovers

Properties like accounting.payment.salesorder.autocreate,
finaccount.decimals, java.naming.provider.url (for ldap configuration) and
eventReminders.emailFromAddress, to name but a few . Though I haven't gone
through the entire list extensively to date and Adrian stated in a comment
regarding issue
OFBIZ-5458<https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5458> that
several (property defined) values are retrieved from database as an
override to the property definition, but where it is done is ambiguous and
un-clear.

In my opinion this should work as follows:
1. retrieve from user preference, with failing over to
2. retrieve from organisation preference/setup, with failing over to
3. retrieve from tenant preference/setup, with failing over to
4. retrieve from .property file

I believe this should be taken up, thus ensuring that it get clearer where
and when a value is retrieved. Ensuring also increase of quality and
decrease of ambiguity.

*Re: maintainability*
Over the past year several add-ons have been included in Ant build
functions to use Apache Ivy as the engine to download jars required by
specific functions. E.g. for PostgreSQL Activemq, Cobertura and Sonar. This
should be expanded more, as it lessens the burden on maintenance and size
of  svn checkouts and distributions. Given that always a build phase is
required when having downloaded OFBiz, this build phase could retrieve the
jar (and other) files required. Using Apache Ivy more, could also
circumvent the licensing issues regarding external products, as none of the
external products are actually included in distributions.

*Re: integrateability*
With regards to integration with other solutions I would like to see the
uptake of a solution like Apache Shiro regarding authentication,
authorization, etc. Especially related to multi-tenancy.
In general, the pool of solutions in the Apache Marketspace (top level
project, etc) is vast and I would say that there are plenty that could be
integrated with. And we already re-use a lot of functionalities of other
products. But this could go further.

Regards,

Pierre Smits

*ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com
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Re: OFBiz In 2014

Pierre Smits
As for the topics in the roadmap document referenced
(this<https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBADMIN/New+Features+Roadmap+-+Living+Document>)
here are my remarks:

Please ask each individual directly whether they are still interested in
the subject or are still willing to assist/champion enhancements. And if
so, invite those to address the issues stated per component, update the
short description of the topic and (if not already done) create and/or
update a specific topic page on the subject.

I fear that a lot of persons stating interest and/or willingness on the
page have moved on to other fields of interest.

Regards,

Pierre Smits

*ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com
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Re: OFBiz In 2014

Adrian Crum-3
In addition, I would like to see the completed items removed.

Adrian Crum
Sandglass Software
www.sandglass-software.com

On 1/5/2014 8:35 AM, Pierre Smits wrote:

> As for the topics in the roadmap document referenced
> (this<https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBADMIN/New+Features+Roadmap+-+Living+Document>)
> here are my remarks:
>
> Please ask each individual directly whether they are still interested in
> the subject or are still willing to assist/champion enhancements. And if
> so, invite those to address the issues stated per component, update the
> short description of the topic and (if not already done) create and/or
> update a specific topic page on the subject.
>
> I fear that a lot of persons stating interest and/or willingness on the
> page have moved on to other fields of interest.
>
> Regards,
>
> Pierre Smits
>
> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> Services and Retail & Trade
> http://www.orrtiz.com
>
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Re: OFBiz In 2014

Ean Schuessler
In reply to this post by Adrian Crum-3
Heartily agreed. At Brainfood we also feel it is a better strategy to integrate with those systems than to compete with them. That is the direction we have been moving in with our client development work.

----- "Adrian Crum" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I have participated in a number of discussions along this line  -
> beginning with the 2007 developers conference. My perspective back
> then
> hasn't changed - instead of trying to make OFBiz more Drupal-like or
> more WordPress-like, let's leave the job of CMS to existing products
> and
> find ways to connect those products to OFBiz.

--
Ean Schuessler, CTO
[hidden email]
214-720-0700 x 315
Brainfood, Inc.
http://www.brainfood.com
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Re: OFBiz In 2014

Jacopo Cappellato-4
In reply to this post by Adrian Crum-3
First of all, I would like to mention our tentative roadmap for the releases:

        • February 2014 - Apache OFBiz 13.07.01
        • March 2014 - Apache OFBiz 12.04.03
        • April 2014 - Apache OFBiz 11.04.04 (last release of the 11.04 series?)
        • August 2014 - Apache OFBiz 13.07.02
        • September 2014 - Apache OFBiz 12.04.04

Summarizing, the new year 2014 will see the last release in the 11.04 series and the new releases in the 13.07 series; we will also issue 2 maintenance releases in the 12.04 series. We will also probably create a new release branch (14.?). This is going to be a lot of work and if we will be able to implement this release roadmap it will be a good achievement for the community.

Then, here is my personal wish list:

* integrate Atomikos Transaction Manager (to replace the existing old and incomplete Geronimo Transaction Manager); I did most of the work some time ago and also Scott helped me; but the effort is not completed (but we are close); this is on hold at the moment and it would be great to give it a final push
* refactor the Product Search engine (and related data model) and replace it with a Lucene/Solr driven search; the same pattern could then be applied to other areas of the system; this would make the searches fast and scalable and also reduce greatly the codebase and remove load from the relational database
* redesign security/authorization; there are different paths here (Adrian did some refactoring work already) but I would love to consider the integration with something like Apache Shiro: this would help to enhance the features we offer and also remove a big chunk of framework code
* complete the support for the Groovy DSL: I have a working patch to extend its support to all screen/widget code: with it you can write the same groovy code for services, events and widgets (data prep scripts): in order to complete the support for data prep scripts my patch needs more work
* continue and improve the maintenance effort of the OFBiz codebase: upgrade of external jars to latest releases, removal of old/unused stuff, better documentation of jar interdependencies, code review/enhancements, bug fixes, further modularization and slim down etc...
* about releases: start (again) the discussion and define a plan for issuing separately the framework from the applications

Jacopo

On Dec 31, 2013, at 1:55 PM, Adrian Crum <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Maybe we can use the start of the new year as an opportunity to consider the future of OFBiz and update our road map:
>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBADMIN/New+Features+Roadmap+-+Living+Document
>
>
> --
> Adrian Crum
> Sandglass Software
> www.sandglass-software.com

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Re: OFBiz In 2014

Jacopo Cappellato-4
In reply to this post by Pierre Smits

On Jan 5, 2014, at 1:52 PM, Pierre Smits <[hidden email]> wrote:

> *Re: slimdown*
> The path set in the recent past regarding slim down is a good path. This
> should be continued. But, slim down should not be  about only focussing on
> the framework. More visibility on the website should be created regarding
> vision and roadmap. In the past also several apps/components/functions have
> been earmarked as eligible for slimdown roadmap, but little actions have
> been undertaken.

I agree that a lot more still needs to be done, but we actually did a lot of progress in this directions if we look at release branches, rather than the trunk: in fact the new release branch 13.07, that will generate the new releases (the first one will be released in a few weeks), is considerably lighter that the previous releases.
This trend can be better appreciated by considering the approx sizes of release tarballs:

09 releases: 58MB
10 releases: 93MB
11 releases: 112MB
12 releases: 113MB
13 releases: 83MB

If I well remember, the slimdown effort started between 11 and 12: it took some time to stop the uncontrolled growth trend and move in the other direction.
It is important to focus on quality: I still see too many commits that would not meet the minimum quality standards of any decent software company and I really would like to see this resolved; our goal should be that the quality of OFBiz code, and all its commits should shine in perfection.

Jacopo
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Re: OFBiz In 2014

Jacopo Cappellato-4
In reply to this post by Pierre Smits

On Jan 5, 2014, at 1:52 PM, Pierre Smits <[hidden email]> wrote:

> With regards to integration with other solutions I would like to see the
> uptake of a solution like Apache Shiro regarding authentication,
> authorization, etc.

+1

Jacopo

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