Maybe we can use the start of the new year as an opportunity to consider
the future of OFBiz and update our road map: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBADMIN/New+Features+Roadmap+-+Living+Document -- Adrian Crum Sandglass Software www.sandglass-software.com |
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To be pragmatic, rather than working on new features, a new framework or whatever, I'd like to work on "Widget & Application HTML clean-up" https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5040
I have heard much complaints about this and I'd really like to 1st replace as much as possible the Freemarker templates used in backend by widget forms. I know already some cases where it's impossible, like the geo location. But in most cases this should be possible and would much facilitate designers work, when themes or such are needed. Because we would then have a consistent HTML generation. And in most cases even a better (consistent) UI, compare the old Price Rules and Promotions for instance (still available at https://demo-old.ofbiz.apache.org/catalog/control/EditProductPriceRules?productPriceRuleId=9000 https://demo-old.ofbiz.apache.org/catalog/control/EditProductPromoRules?productPromoId=9000 ) Because it contained a new FTL template, I recently refused to commit a working patch for "Improve to allow purchase order ship method options" https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5387 I though must say that I still want to finish pending new features (actually 2 new specialpurpose components) 1) I expect to merge the seo branch soon https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5312. I only see minor issues now, and anyway at some point you need to have your feet wet... 2) And to finish the Solr integration https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5042. I sill have to figure out how bad is the security issue. In a first step adding a credential acces to the the Solr admin should be enough. But yes underneath is not totally secured as is... Jacques On Tuesday, December 31, 2013 1:55 PM [hidden email] wrote > Maybe we can use the start of the new year as an opportunity to consider > the future of OFBiz and update our road map: > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBADMIN/New+Features+Roadmap+-+Living+Document |
Hi Guys
Best wishes to everybody for 2014. I would like to support the prioritisation of theme development for 2014. Jacques, I noticed that you are specifically talking about backend widget forms. What about ecommerce? IMO that little attention is given to frontend design and even less is done to accommodate design-orientated developers. Theme developement in Ofbiz has a long way to go if it is to reach the levels of standardisation, ease and portability attained and used in CMS apps like Drupal, WordPress etc. and Ecommerce packages like Magento. Keep up the good work. Gavin On Sat, Jan 4, 2014 at 6:52 PM, Jacques Le Roux < [hidden email]> wrote: > To be pragmatic, rather than working on new features, a new framework or > whatever, I'd like to work on "Widget & Application HTML clean-up" > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5040 > > I have heard much complaints about this and I'd really like to 1st replace > as much as possible the Freemarker templates used in backend by widget > forms. > > I know already some cases where it's impossible, like the geo location. > But in most cases this should be possible and would much facilitate > designers work, when themes or such are needed. > Because we would then have a consistent HTML generation. > And in most cases even a better (consistent) UI, compare the old Price > Rules and Promotions for instance > (still available at > > https://demo-old.ofbiz.apache.org/catalog/control/EditProductPriceRules?productPriceRuleId=9000 > > https://demo-old.ofbiz.apache.org/catalog/control/EditProductPromoRules?productPromoId=9000 > ) > > Because it contained a new FTL template, I recently refused to commit a > working patch for "Improve to allow purchase order ship method options" > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5387 > > > I though must say that I still want to finish pending new features > (actually 2 new specialpurpose components) > > 1) I expect to merge the seo branch soon > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5312. > I only see minor issues now, and anyway at some point you need to have > your feet wet... > > 2) And to finish the Solr integration > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5042. > I sill have to figure out how bad is the security issue. In a first step > adding a credential acces to the the Solr admin should be enough. But yes > underneath is not totally secured as is... > > Jacques > > > On Tuesday, December 31, 2013 1:55 PM [hidden email] > > Maybe we can use the start of the new year as an opportunity to consider > > the future of OFBiz and update our road map: > > > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBADMIN/New+Features+Roadmap+-+Living+Document > |
In reply to this post by Jacques Le Roux
Why is geo location impossible with screen widgets? We could create a
map widget. Adrian Crum Sandglass Software www.sandglass-software.com On 1/4/2014 11:52 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote: > To be pragmatic, rather than working on new features, a new framework or whatever, I'd like to work on "Widget & Application HTML clean-up" https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5040 > > I have heard much complaints about this and I'd really like to 1st replace as much as possible the Freemarker templates used in backend by widget forms. > > I know already some cases where it's impossible, like the geo location. > But in most cases this should be possible and would much facilitate designers work, when themes or such are needed. > Because we would then have a consistent HTML generation. > And in most cases even a better (consistent) UI, compare the old Price Rules and Promotions for instance > (still available at > https://demo-old.ofbiz.apache.org/catalog/control/EditProductPriceRules?productPriceRuleId=9000 > https://demo-old.ofbiz.apache.org/catalog/control/EditProductPromoRules?productPromoId=9000 > ) > > Because it contained a new FTL template, I recently refused to commit a working patch for "Improve to allow purchase order ship method options" https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5387 > > > I though must say that I still want to finish pending new features (actually 2 new specialpurpose components) > > 1) I expect to merge the seo branch soon https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5312. > I only see minor issues now, and anyway at some point you need to have your feet wet... > > 2) And to finish the Solr integration https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5042. > I sill have to figure out how bad is the security issue. In a first step adding a credential acces to the the Solr admin should be enough. But yes underneath is not totally secured as is... > > Jacques > > > On Tuesday, December 31, 2013 1:55 PM [hidden email] wrote >> Maybe we can use the start of the new year as an opportunity to consider >> the future of OFBiz and update our road map: >> >> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBADMIN/New+Features+Roadmap+-+Living+Document |
In reply to this post by Jacques Le Roux
My preference is to use freemarker. With Form widgets, Its nearly impossible to deliver UI/UX for todays.
Thanks and Regards Anil Patel Hotwax Media Inc http://www.hotwaxmedia.com/ ApacheCon US 2013 Gold Sponsor http://na.apachecon.com/sponsors/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jacques Le Roux" <[hidden email]> To: [hidden email] Sent: Saturday, January 4, 2014 11:52:34 AM Subject: Re: OFBiz In 2014 To be pragmatic, rather than working on new features, a new framework or whatever, I'd like to work on "Widget & Application HTML clean-up" https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5040 I have heard much complaints about this and I'd really like to 1st replace as much as possible the Freemarker templates used in backend by widget forms. I know already some cases where it's impossible, like the geo location. But in most cases this should be possible and would much facilitate designers work, when themes or such are needed. Because we would then have a consistent HTML generation. And in most cases even a better (consistent) UI, compare the old Price Rules and Promotions for instance (still available at https://demo-old.ofbiz.apache.org/catalog/control/EditProductPriceRules?productPriceRuleId=9000 https://demo-old.ofbiz.apache.org/catalog/control/EditProductPromoRules?productPromoId=9000 ) Because it contained a new FTL template, I recently refused to commit a working patch for "Improve to allow purchase order ship method options" https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5387 I though must say that I still want to finish pending new features (actually 2 new specialpurpose components) 1) I expect to merge the seo branch soon https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5312. I only see minor issues now, and anyway at some point you need to have your feet wet... 2) And to finish the Solr integration https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5042. I sill have to figure out how bad is the security issue. In a first step adding a credential acces to the the Solr admin should be enough. But yes underneath is not totally secured as is... Jacques On Tuesday, December 31, 2013 1:55 PM [hidden email] wrote > Maybe we can use the start of the new year as an opportunity to consider > the future of OFBiz and update our road map: > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBADMIN/New+Features+Roadmap+-+Living+Document |
In reply to this post by Jacques Le Roux
My preference is to use freemarker. With Form widgets, Its nearly impossible to deliver UI/UX for todays users.
Thanks and Regards Anil Patel Hotwax Media Inc http://www.hotwaxmedia.com/ ApacheCon US 2013 Gold Sponsor http://na.apachecon.com/sponsors/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jacques Le Roux" <[hidden email]> To: [hidden email] Sent: Saturday, January 4, 2014 11:52:34 AM Subject: Re: OFBiz In 2014 To be pragmatic, rather than working on new features, a new framework or whatever, I'd like to work on "Widget & Application HTML clean-up" https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5040 I have heard much complaints about this and I'd really like to 1st replace as much as possible the Freemarker templates used in backend by widget forms. I know already some cases where it's impossible, like the geo location. But in most cases this should be possible and would much facilitate designers work, when themes or such are needed. Because we would then have a consistent HTML generation. And in most cases even a better (consistent) UI, compare the old Price Rules and Promotions for instance (still available at https://demo-old.ofbiz.apache.org/catalog/control/EditProductPriceRules?productPriceRuleId=9000 https://demo-old.ofbiz.apache.org/catalog/control/EditProductPromoRules?productPromoId=9000 ) Because it contained a new FTL template, I recently refused to commit a working patch for "Improve to allow purchase order ship method options" https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5387 I though must say that I still want to finish pending new features (actually 2 new specialpurpose components) 1) I expect to merge the seo branch soon https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5312. I only see minor issues now, and anyway at some point you need to have your feet wet... 2) And to finish the Solr integration https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5042. I sill have to figure out how bad is the security issue. In a first step adding a credential acces to the the Solr admin should be enough. But yes underneath is not totally secured as is... Jacques On Tuesday, December 31, 2013 1:55 PM [hidden email] wrote > Maybe we can use the start of the new year as an opportunity to consider > the future of OFBiz and update our road map: > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBADMIN/New+Features+Roadmap+-+Living+Document |
In reply to this post by Gavin Mabie-2
I have participated in a number of discussions along this line -
beginning with the 2007 developers conference. My perspective back then hasn't changed - instead of trying to make OFBiz more Drupal-like or more WordPress-like, let's leave the job of CMS to existing products and find ways to connect those products to OFBiz. Adrian Crum Sandglass Software www.sandglass-software.com On 1/4/2014 12:28 PM, Gavin Mabie wrote: > Hi Guys > > Best wishes to everybody for 2014. I would like to support the > prioritisation of theme development for 2014. Jacques, I noticed that you > are specifically talking about backend widget > forms. What about ecommerce? IMO that little attention is given to > frontend design and even less is done to accommodate design-orientated > developers. Theme developement in Ofbiz has a long way to go if it is to > reach the levels of standardisation, ease and portability attained and used > in CMS apps like Drupal, WordPress etc. and Ecommerce packages like > Magento. Keep up the good work. > > Gavin > > > On Sat, Jan 4, 2014 at 6:52 PM, Jacques Le Roux < > [hidden email]> wrote: > >> To be pragmatic, rather than working on new features, a new framework or >> whatever, I'd like to work on "Widget & Application HTML clean-up" >> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5040 >> >> I have heard much complaints about this and I'd really like to 1st replace >> as much as possible the Freemarker templates used in backend by widget >> forms. >> >> I know already some cases where it's impossible, like the geo location. >> But in most cases this should be possible and would much facilitate >> designers work, when themes or such are needed. >> Because we would then have a consistent HTML generation. >> And in most cases even a better (consistent) UI, compare the old Price >> Rules and Promotions for instance >> (still available at >> >> https://demo-old.ofbiz.apache.org/catalog/control/EditProductPriceRules?productPriceRuleId=9000 >> >> https://demo-old.ofbiz.apache.org/catalog/control/EditProductPromoRules?productPromoId=9000 >> ) >> >> Because it contained a new FTL template, I recently refused to commit a >> working patch for "Improve to allow purchase order ship method options" >> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5387 >> >> >> I though must say that I still want to finish pending new features >> (actually 2 new specialpurpose components) >> >> 1) I expect to merge the seo branch soon >> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5312. >> I only see minor issues now, and anyway at some point you need to have >> your feet wet... >> >> 2) And to finish the Solr integration >> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5042. >> I sill have to figure out how bad is the security issue. In a first step >> adding a credential acces to the the Solr admin should be enough. But yes >> underneath is not totally secured as is... >> >> Jacques >> >> >> On Tuesday, December 31, 2013 1:55 PM [hidden email] >>> Maybe we can use the start of the new year as an opportunity to consider >>> the future of OFBiz and update our road map: >>> >>> >> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBADMIN/New+Features+Roadmap+-+Living+Document >> > |
Freemarker? For template, thymeleaf maybe a better alternative, it's UI
designer friendly. Cheers Young Gu | Senior Software Engineer | www.infor.com <http://killgfw.com/> On Sun, Jan 5, 2014 at 2:09 AM, Adrian Crum < [hidden email]> wrote: > I have participated in a number of discussions along this line - > beginning with the 2007 developers conference. My perspective back then > hasn't changed - instead of trying to make OFBiz more Drupal-like or more > WordPress-like, let's leave the job of CMS to existing products and find > ways to connect those products to OFBiz. > > > Adrian Crum > Sandglass Software > www.sandglass-software.com > > On 1/4/2014 12:28 PM, Gavin Mabie wrote: > >> Hi Guys >> >> Best wishes to everybody for 2014. I would like to support the >> prioritisation of theme development for 2014. Jacques, I noticed that you >> are specifically talking about backend widget >> forms. What about ecommerce? IMO that little attention is given to >> frontend design and even less is done to accommodate design-orientated >> developers. Theme developement in Ofbiz has a long way to go if it is to >> reach the levels of standardisation, ease and portability attained and >> used >> in CMS apps like Drupal, WordPress etc. and Ecommerce packages like >> Magento. Keep up the good work. >> >> Gavin >> >> >> On Sat, Jan 4, 2014 at 6:52 PM, Jacques Le Roux < >> [hidden email]> wrote: >> >> To be pragmatic, rather than working on new features, a new framework or >>> whatever, I'd like to work on "Widget & Application HTML clean-up" >>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5040 >>> >>> I have heard much complaints about this and I'd really like to 1st >>> replace >>> as much as possible the Freemarker templates used in backend by widget >>> forms. >>> >>> I know already some cases where it's impossible, like the geo location. >>> But in most cases this should be possible and would much facilitate >>> designers work, when themes or such are needed. >>> Because we would then have a consistent HTML generation. >>> And in most cases even a better (consistent) UI, compare the old Price >>> Rules and Promotions for instance >>> (still available at >>> >>> https://demo-old.ofbiz.apache.org/catalog/control/EditProductPriceRules? >>> productPriceRuleId=9000 >>> >>> https://demo-old.ofbiz.apache.org/catalog/control/EditProductPromoRules? >>> productPromoId=9000 >>> ) >>> >>> Because it contained a new FTL template, I recently refused to commit a >>> working patch for "Improve to allow purchase order ship method options" >>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5387 >>> >>> >>> I though must say that I still want to finish pending new features >>> (actually 2 new specialpurpose components) >>> >>> 1) I expect to merge the seo branch soon >>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5312. >>> I only see minor issues now, and anyway at some point you need to have >>> your feet wet... >>> >>> 2) And to finish the Solr integration >>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5042. >>> I sill have to figure out how bad is the security issue. In a first >>> step >>> adding a credential acces to the the Solr admin should be enough. But yes >>> underneath is not totally secured as is... >>> >>> Jacques >>> >>> >>> On Tuesday, December 31, 2013 1:55 PM adrian.crum@sandglass- >>> software.comwrote >>> >>>> Maybe we can use the start of the new year as an opportunity to consider >>>> the future of OFBiz and update our road map: >>>> >>>> >>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBADMIN/ >>> New+Features+Roadmap+-+Living+Document >>> >>> >> |
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Yes, maybe indeed
Jacques On Saturday, January 04, 2014 7:03 PM [hidden email] wrote > Why is geo location impossible with screen widgets? We could create a > map widget. > > Adrian Crum > Sandglass Software > www.sandglass-software.com > > On 1/4/2014 11:52 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote: >> To be pragmatic, rather than working on new features, a new framework or whatever, I'd like to work on "Widget & Application >> HTML clean-up" https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5040 >> >> I have heard much complaints about this and I'd really like to 1st replace as much as possible the Freemarker templates used in >> backend by widget forms. >> >> I know already some cases where it's impossible, like the geo location. >> But in most cases this should be possible and would much facilitate designers work, when themes or such are needed. >> Because we would then have a consistent HTML generation. >> And in most cases even a better (consistent) UI, compare the old Price Rules and Promotions for instance >> (still available at >> https://demo-old.ofbiz.apache.org/catalog/control/EditProductPriceRules?productPriceRuleId=9000 >> https://demo-old.ofbiz.apache.org/catalog/control/EditProductPromoRules?productPromoId=9000 >> ) >> >> Because it contained a new FTL template, I recently refused to commit a working patch for "Improve to allow purchase order ship >> method options" https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5387 >> >> >> I though must say that I still want to finish pending new features (actually 2 new specialpurpose components) >> >> 1) I expect to merge the seo branch soon https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5312. >> I only see minor issues now, and anyway at some point you need to have your feet wet... >> >> 2) And to finish the Solr integration https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5042. >> I sill have to figure out how bad is the security issue. In a first step adding a credential acces to the the Solr admin >> should be enough. But yes underneath is not totally secured as is... >> >> Jacques >> >> >> On Tuesday, December 31, 2013 1:55 PM [hidden email] wrote >>> Maybe we can use the start of the new year as an opportunity to consider >>> the future of OFBiz and update our road map: >>> >>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBADMIN/New+Features+Roadmap+-+Living+Document |
In reply to this post by Anil Patel-3
Looking at it another way, with screen widgets you can replace the
existing FreeMarker macros with your own - so the UI can look like anything. I recently did that for 1Tech Ltd - where I replaced the HTML markup with Sencha JavaScript. Adrian Crum Sandglass Software www.sandglass-software.com On 1/4/2014 1:09 PM, Anil K Patel wrote: > My preference is to use freemarker. With Form widgets, Its nearly impossible to deliver UI/UX for todays users. > > Thanks and Regards > Anil Patel > Hotwax Media Inc > http://www.hotwaxmedia.com/ > ApacheCon US 2013 Gold Sponsor > http://na.apachecon.com/sponsors/ > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jacques Le Roux" <[hidden email]> > To: [hidden email] > Sent: Saturday, January 4, 2014 11:52:34 AM > Subject: Re: OFBiz In 2014 > > To be pragmatic, rather than working on new features, a new framework or whatever, I'd like to work on "Widget & Application HTML clean-up" https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5040 > > I have heard much complaints about this and I'd really like to 1st replace as much as possible the Freemarker templates used in backend by widget forms. > > I know already some cases where it's impossible, like the geo location. > But in most cases this should be possible and would much facilitate designers work, when themes or such are needed. > Because we would then have a consistent HTML generation. > And in most cases even a better (consistent) UI, compare the old Price Rules and Promotions for instance > (still available at > https://demo-old.ofbiz.apache.org/catalog/control/EditProductPriceRules?productPriceRuleId=9000 > https://demo-old.ofbiz.apache.org/catalog/control/EditProductPromoRules?productPromoId=9000 > ) > > Because it contained a new FTL template, I recently refused to commit a working patch for "Improve to allow purchase order ship method options" https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5387 > > > I though must say that I still want to finish pending new features (actually 2 new specialpurpose components) > > 1) I expect to merge the seo branch soon https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5312. > I only see minor issues now, and anyway at some point you need to have your feet wet... > > 2) And to finish the Solr integration https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5042. > I sill have to figure out how bad is the security issue. In a first step adding a credential acces to the the Solr admin should be enough. But yes underneath is not totally secured as is... > > Jacques > > > On Tuesday, December 31, 2013 1:55 PM [hidden email] wrote >> Maybe we can use the start of the new year as an opportunity to consider >> the future of OFBiz and update our road map: >> >> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBADMIN/New+Features+Roadmap+-+Living+Document |
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In reply to this post by Adrian Crum-3
I plently agree, this is what http://www.cato-commerce.com/ do for instance
OFBiz ecommerce frontend is just there to show what's possible to do with OFBiz in this area. Jacques On Saturday, January 04, 2014 7:09 PM [hidden email] wrote > I have participated in a number of discussions along this line - > beginning with the 2007 developers conference. My perspective back then > hasn't changed - instead of trying to make OFBiz more Drupal-like or > more WordPress-like, let's leave the job of CMS to existing products and > find ways to connect those products to OFBiz. > > Adrian Crum > Sandglass Software > www.sandglass-software.com > > On 1/4/2014 12:28 PM, Gavin Mabie wrote: >> Hi Guys >> >> Best wishes to everybody for 2014. I would like to support the >> prioritisation of theme development for 2014. Jacques, I noticed that you >> are specifically talking about backend widget >> forms. What about ecommerce? IMO that little attention is given to >> frontend design and even less is done to accommodate design-orientated >> developers. Theme developement in Ofbiz has a long way to go if it is to >> reach the levels of standardisation, ease and portability attained and used >> in CMS apps like Drupal, WordPress etc. and Ecommerce packages like >> Magento. Keep up the good work. >> >> Gavin >> >> >> On Sat, Jan 4, 2014 at 6:52 PM, Jacques Le Roux < >> [hidden email]> wrote: >> >>> To be pragmatic, rather than working on new features, a new framework or >>> whatever, I'd like to work on "Widget & Application HTML clean-up" >>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5040 >>> >>> I have heard much complaints about this and I'd really like to 1st replace >>> as much as possible the Freemarker templates used in backend by widget >>> forms. >>> >>> I know already some cases where it's impossible, like the geo location. >>> But in most cases this should be possible and would much facilitate >>> designers work, when themes or such are needed. >>> Because we would then have a consistent HTML generation. >>> And in most cases even a better (consistent) UI, compare the old Price >>> Rules and Promotions for instance >>> (still available at >>> >>> https://demo-old.ofbiz.apache.org/catalog/control/EditProductPriceRules?productPriceRuleId=9000 >>> >>> https://demo-old.ofbiz.apache.org/catalog/control/EditProductPromoRules?productPromoId=9000 >>> ) >>> >>> Because it contained a new FTL template, I recently refused to commit a >>> working patch for "Improve to allow purchase order ship method options" >>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5387 >>> >>> >>> I though must say that I still want to finish pending new features >>> (actually 2 new specialpurpose components) >>> >>> 1) I expect to merge the seo branch soon >>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5312. >>> I only see minor issues now, and anyway at some point you need to have >>> your feet wet... >>> >>> 2) And to finish the Solr integration >>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5042. >>> I sill have to figure out how bad is the security issue. In a first step >>> adding a credential acces to the the Solr admin should be enough. But yes >>> underneath is not totally secured as is... >>> >>> Jacques >>> >>> >>> On Tuesday, December 31, 2013 1:55 PM [hidden email] >>>> Maybe we can use the start of the new year as an opportunity to consider >>>> the future of OFBiz and update our road map: >>>> >>>> >>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBADMIN/New+Features+Roadmap+-+Living+Document |
In reply to this post by Adrian Crum-3
Hi Adrian
Interesting historical perspective. Quick question .. does this mean that the issue has been closed? By the way, I'm not suggesting that Ofbiz be made more Drupal/WordPress-like generally. That would be ridiculous. I'm also not talking about CMS. Rather, my idea is more focussed on the theme development area, a functionality already existing in Ofbiz but which does not enjoy much attention. The ecommerce frontend is the first impression that most first time users get about the system and as such it represents the whole Ofbiz brand. I would venture to say that most first time visitors would be inclined to abandon any further exploration based on their first impression. It is therefore imperative that more attention be given to this area. Regards Gavin On Sat, Jan 4, 2014 at 8:09 PM, Adrian Crum < [hidden email]> wrote: > I have participated in a number of discussions along this line - > beginning with the 2007 developers conference. My perspective back then > hasn't changed - instead of trying to make OFBiz more Drupal-like or more > WordPress-like, let's leave the job of CMS to existing products and find > ways to connect those products to OFBiz. > > > Adrian Crum > Sandglass Software > www.sandglass-software.com > > On 1/4/2014 12:28 PM, Gavin Mabie wrote: > >> Hi Guys >> >> Best wishes to everybody for 2014. I would like to support the >> prioritisation of theme development for 2014. Jacques, I noticed that you >> are specifically talking about backend widget >> forms. What about ecommerce? IMO that little attention is given to >> frontend design and even less is done to accommodate design-orientated >> developers. Theme developement in Ofbiz has a long way to go if it is to >> reach the levels of standardisation, ease and portability attained and >> used >> in CMS apps like Drupal, WordPress etc. and Ecommerce packages like >> Magento. Keep up the good work. >> >> Gavin >> >> >> On Sat, Jan 4, 2014 at 6:52 PM, Jacques Le Roux < >> [hidden email]> wrote: >> >> To be pragmatic, rather than working on new features, a new framework or >>> whatever, I'd like to work on "Widget & Application HTML clean-up" >>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5040 >>> >>> I have heard much complaints about this and I'd really like to 1st >>> replace >>> as much as possible the Freemarker templates used in backend by widget >>> forms. >>> >>> I know already some cases where it's impossible, like the geo location. >>> But in most cases this should be possible and would much facilitate >>> designers work, when themes or such are needed. >>> Because we would then have a consistent HTML generation. >>> And in most cases even a better (consistent) UI, compare the old Price >>> Rules and Promotions for instance >>> (still available at >>> >>> https://demo-old.ofbiz.apache.org/catalog/control/EditProductPriceRules? >>> productPriceRuleId=9000 >>> >>> https://demo-old.ofbiz.apache.org/catalog/control/EditProductPromoRules? >>> productPromoId=9000 >>> ) >>> >>> Because it contained a new FTL template, I recently refused to commit a >>> working patch for "Improve to allow purchase order ship method options" >>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5387 >>> >>> >>> I though must say that I still want to finish pending new features >>> (actually 2 new specialpurpose components) >>> >>> 1) I expect to merge the seo branch soon >>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5312. >>> I only see minor issues now, and anyway at some point you need to have >>> your feet wet... >>> >>> 2) And to finish the Solr integration >>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5042. >>> I sill have to figure out how bad is the security issue. In a first >>> step >>> adding a credential acces to the the Solr admin should be enough. But yes >>> underneath is not totally secured as is... >>> >>> Jacques >>> >>> >>> On Tuesday, December 31, 2013 1:55 PM adrian.crum@sandglass- >>> software.comwrote >>> >>>> Maybe we can use the start of the new year as an opportunity to consider >>>> the future of OFBiz and update our road map: >>>> >>>> >>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBADMIN/ >>> New+Features+Roadmap+-+Living+Document >>> >>> >> |
No, the issue isn't closed. I was merely expressing an opinion. This
type of thread is all about everyone sharing their ideas and opinions and when we find a consensus or general support for an idea we add it to the Wiki page. So, please don't feel like I am shutting the idea down. I agree the eCommerce application needs work, and I agree its appearance could have an effect on adoption. Adrian Crum Sandglass Software www.sandglass-software.com On 1/4/2014 3:57 PM, Gavin Mabie wrote: > Hi Adrian > > Interesting historical perspective. Quick question .. does this mean that > the issue has been closed? By the way, I'm not suggesting that Ofbiz be > made more Drupal/WordPress-like generally. That would be ridiculous. I'm > also not talking about CMS. Rather, my idea is more focussed on the theme > development area, a functionality already existing in Ofbiz but which does > not enjoy much attention. The ecommerce frontend is the first impression > that most first time users get about the system and as such it represents > the whole Ofbiz brand. I would venture to say that most first time > visitors would be inclined to abandon any further exploration based on > their first impression. It is therefore imperative that more attention be > given to this area. > > Regards > > Gavin > > > On Sat, Jan 4, 2014 at 8:09 PM, Adrian Crum < > [hidden email]> wrote: > >> I have participated in a number of discussions along this line - >> beginning with the 2007 developers conference. My perspective back then >> hasn't changed - instead of trying to make OFBiz more Drupal-like or more >> WordPress-like, let's leave the job of CMS to existing products and find >> ways to connect those products to OFBiz. >> >> >> Adrian Crum >> Sandglass Software >> www.sandglass-software.com >> >> On 1/4/2014 12:28 PM, Gavin Mabie wrote: >> >>> Hi Guys >>> >>> Best wishes to everybody for 2014. I would like to support the >>> prioritisation of theme development for 2014. Jacques, I noticed that you >>> are specifically talking about backend widget >>> forms. What about ecommerce? IMO that little attention is given to >>> frontend design and even less is done to accommodate design-orientated >>> developers. Theme developement in Ofbiz has a long way to go if it is to >>> reach the levels of standardisation, ease and portability attained and >>> used >>> in CMS apps like Drupal, WordPress etc. and Ecommerce packages like >>> Magento. Keep up the good work. >>> >>> Gavin >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Jan 4, 2014 at 6:52 PM, Jacques Le Roux < >>> [hidden email]> wrote: >>> >>> To be pragmatic, rather than working on new features, a new framework or >>>> whatever, I'd like to work on "Widget & Application HTML clean-up" >>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5040 >>>> >>>> I have heard much complaints about this and I'd really like to 1st >>>> replace >>>> as much as possible the Freemarker templates used in backend by widget >>>> forms. >>>> >>>> I know already some cases where it's impossible, like the geo location. >>>> But in most cases this should be possible and would much facilitate >>>> designers work, when themes or such are needed. >>>> Because we would then have a consistent HTML generation. >>>> And in most cases even a better (consistent) UI, compare the old Price >>>> Rules and Promotions for instance >>>> (still available at >>>> >>>> https://demo-old.ofbiz.apache.org/catalog/control/EditProductPriceRules? >>>> productPriceRuleId=9000 >>>> >>>> https://demo-old.ofbiz.apache.org/catalog/control/EditProductPromoRules? >>>> productPromoId=9000 >>>> ) >>>> >>>> Because it contained a new FTL template, I recently refused to commit a >>>> working patch for "Improve to allow purchase order ship method options" >>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5387 >>>> >>>> >>>> I though must say that I still want to finish pending new features >>>> (actually 2 new specialpurpose components) >>>> >>>> 1) I expect to merge the seo branch soon >>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5312. >>>> I only see minor issues now, and anyway at some point you need to have >>>> your feet wet... >>>> >>>> 2) And to finish the Solr integration >>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5042. >>>> I sill have to figure out how bad is the security issue. In a first >>>> step >>>> adding a credential acces to the the Solr admin should be enough. But yes >>>> underneath is not totally secured as is... >>>> >>>> Jacques >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tuesday, December 31, 2013 1:55 PM adrian.crum@sandglass- >>>> software.comwrote >>>> >>>>> Maybe we can use the start of the new year as an opportunity to consider >>>>> the future of OFBiz and update our road map: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBADMIN/ >>>> New+Features+Roadmap+-+Living+Document >>>> >>>> >>> > |
First of all, let me say that it is good to reflect on the roadmap again.
This should be done at regular intervals. Secondly, I feel that this thread should have been initiated in the other mailing list. Though many may follow this mailing list, not all do. Discussions regarding vision and roadmap should involve all members of the community. Thirdly, I feel its a pity that many of the PMC and Committers don't jump to the gun to share their opinions, visions and insights regarding the future. Apart/beyond the above I herewith share (some of) my thoughts on the more technical topics the roadmap for 2014 and beyond should address. I agree with Adrian and Jacques on the subject of CMS. Transformation of OFBiz to solutions like Drupal et al is not needed. However, these solutions have an evolved set of functionalities in order to integrate components/plug-ins/add-ons, whether they are in the area of themes or bespoke solutions like payment and shipment processors and others. If I am correct, solutions like the big-fish (by Nick Rosser and his team) , and the add-on manager (in Apache Extra - by the people of Nereide) are steps in that direction. Maybe we can learn from these and others and expand on them. *Re: slimdown* The path set in the recent past regarding slim down is a good path. This should be continued. But, slim down should not be about only focussing on the framework. More visibility on the website should be created regarding vision and roadmap. In the past also several apps/components/functions have been earmarked as eligible for slimdown roadmap, but little actions have been undertaken. I believe this has to do with fear. Fear that OFBiz is on a path of self-destruction (becoming a framework-only solution, as seen from the original viewpoint of the project), or - when not in a framework-only roadmap - that there will be a diminished ownership by the project. More communication regarding this issue should be undertaken. As for payment and shipment processors, these all should move from current place in applications (accounting and product) to hot-deployable components (per payment processor, per shipment processor).. This way, each processor can be selected and deployed when needed. It also creates more visibility regarding the flexibility of the system, due to the fact that there are plugins available that cater to customers/users specific needs. Plus it might attract new solution developers to build/maintain these optionals. But that requires more and unified communication. I recently undertook the endeavour to move the iDEAL payment processor from accounting to Apache Extra (see issues OFBIZ-5303<https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5303> and OFBIZ-5443 <https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5443>), and after evaluating the solution I came to conclusion that it is broken/malfunctioning in its current design. While it is a pity that it is as it is, and a shame that it was incorporated in accounting without due-diligence, it is good that it is moved (as part of slimdown). It improves the quality of the base component and makes the solution more accessible. When more specific solutions move this way, the better it is. Perceived quality of the total package is then less defined by the individual component/solution/function (depending of course on the viewpoint of the viewer). *Focus should (also) be on performance, scalability and configurability* Good performance increases the user experience. This involves both Above-the-Line (screen build up - client side) and Below-the-Line (data retrieval, logging, mail processing, etc - server side). Regarding AtL (Above-the-Line) this means leaving the concept that we should only have web 1.0 functionality in components and apply web 2.0 functionality more and more. Good performance also means minimizing the loops to include javascript functions in screens and forms. Think of the date and lookup renderers. Per line in overviews these functions are included whereas they could (and should) be in a javascript file and called from there. Of course, given the number of screens and forms in all the components this means a lot of work, but Rome wasn't built in one day either. Regarding BtL (Below-the-Line) this means more (better?) scalability functions, but also configurability of where and when functions and processes should be executed. Of course, this is related to multi-server setups and multi-tenancy implementations. This should also include deployability on external servers. This seems to be broken and outdated. Regarding configurability I see that we currently have over 1200 configurable properties in .properties files. Some of these are used for startup, some for development, some for deployment and some for testing. And there are overlapping situations. But the majority of the properties are to be used in production environment. In single (internal) organisation, single tenant (default) and single server setup this is ok as it works. But in a multi (internal) organisation, multi tenant and multi server setup this is inadequate. In such scenarios the default values on user, organisation and tenant level must also be set and act like in .properties files act like failovers Properties like accounting.payment.salesorder.autocreate, finaccount.decimals, java.naming.provider.url (for ldap configuration) and eventReminders.emailFromAddress, to name but a few . Though I haven't gone through the entire list extensively to date and Adrian stated in a comment regarding issue OFBIZ-5458<https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5458> that several (property defined) values are retrieved from database as an override to the property definition, but where it is done is ambiguous and un-clear. In my opinion this should work as follows: 1. retrieve from user preference, with failing over to 2. retrieve from organisation preference/setup, with failing over to 3. retrieve from tenant preference/setup, with failing over to 4. retrieve from .property file I believe this should be taken up, thus ensuring that it get clearer where and when a value is retrieved. Ensuring also increase of quality and decrease of ambiguity. *Re: maintainability* Over the past year several add-ons have been included in Ant build functions to use Apache Ivy as the engine to download jars required by specific functions. E.g. for PostgreSQL Activemq, Cobertura and Sonar. This should be expanded more, as it lessens the burden on maintenance and size of svn checkouts and distributions. Given that always a build phase is required when having downloaded OFBiz, this build phase could retrieve the jar (and other) files required. Using Apache Ivy more, could also circumvent the licensing issues regarding external products, as none of the external products are actually included in distributions. *Re: integrateability* With regards to integration with other solutions I would like to see the uptake of a solution like Apache Shiro regarding authentication, authorization, etc. Especially related to multi-tenancy. In general, the pool of solutions in the Apache Marketspace (top level project, etc) is vast and I would say that there are plenty that could be integrated with. And we already re-use a lot of functionalities of other products. But this could go further. Regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>* Services & Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail & Trade http://www.orrtiz.com |
As for the topics in the roadmap document referenced
(this<https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBADMIN/New+Features+Roadmap+-+Living+Document>) here are my remarks: Please ask each individual directly whether they are still interested in the subject or are still willing to assist/champion enhancements. And if so, invite those to address the issues stated per component, update the short description of the topic and (if not already done) create and/or update a specific topic page on the subject. I fear that a lot of persons stating interest and/or willingness on the page have moved on to other fields of interest. Regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>* Services & Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail & Trade http://www.orrtiz.com |
In addition, I would like to see the completed items removed.
Adrian Crum Sandglass Software www.sandglass-software.com On 1/5/2014 8:35 AM, Pierre Smits wrote: > As for the topics in the roadmap document referenced > (this<https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBADMIN/New+Features+Roadmap+-+Living+Document>) > here are my remarks: > > Please ask each individual directly whether they are still interested in > the subject or are still willing to assist/champion enhancements. And if > so, invite those to address the issues stated per component, update the > short description of the topic and (if not already done) create and/or > update a specific topic page on the subject. > > I fear that a lot of persons stating interest and/or willingness on the > page have moved on to other fields of interest. > > Regards, > > Pierre Smits > > *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>* > Services & Solutions for Cloud- > Based Manufacturing, Professional > Services and Retail & Trade > http://www.orrtiz.com > |
In reply to this post by Adrian Crum-3
Heartily agreed. At Brainfood we also feel it is a better strategy to integrate with those systems than to compete with them. That is the direction we have been moving in with our client development work.
----- "Adrian Crum" <[hidden email]> wrote: > I have participated in a number of discussions along this line - > beginning with the 2007 developers conference. My perspective back > then > hasn't changed - instead of trying to make OFBiz more Drupal-like or > more WordPress-like, let's leave the job of CMS to existing products > and > find ways to connect those products to OFBiz. -- Ean Schuessler, CTO [hidden email] 214-720-0700 x 315 Brainfood, Inc. http://www.brainfood.com |
In reply to this post by Adrian Crum-3
First of all, I would like to mention our tentative roadmap for the releases:
• February 2014 - Apache OFBiz 13.07.01 • March 2014 - Apache OFBiz 12.04.03 • April 2014 - Apache OFBiz 11.04.04 (last release of the 11.04 series?) • August 2014 - Apache OFBiz 13.07.02 • September 2014 - Apache OFBiz 12.04.04 Summarizing, the new year 2014 will see the last release in the 11.04 series and the new releases in the 13.07 series; we will also issue 2 maintenance releases in the 12.04 series. We will also probably create a new release branch (14.?). This is going to be a lot of work and if we will be able to implement this release roadmap it will be a good achievement for the community. Then, here is my personal wish list: * integrate Atomikos Transaction Manager (to replace the existing old and incomplete Geronimo Transaction Manager); I did most of the work some time ago and also Scott helped me; but the effort is not completed (but we are close); this is on hold at the moment and it would be great to give it a final push * refactor the Product Search engine (and related data model) and replace it with a Lucene/Solr driven search; the same pattern could then be applied to other areas of the system; this would make the searches fast and scalable and also reduce greatly the codebase and remove load from the relational database * redesign security/authorization; there are different paths here (Adrian did some refactoring work already) but I would love to consider the integration with something like Apache Shiro: this would help to enhance the features we offer and also remove a big chunk of framework code * complete the support for the Groovy DSL: I have a working patch to extend its support to all screen/widget code: with it you can write the same groovy code for services, events and widgets (data prep scripts): in order to complete the support for data prep scripts my patch needs more work * continue and improve the maintenance effort of the OFBiz codebase: upgrade of external jars to latest releases, removal of old/unused stuff, better documentation of jar interdependencies, code review/enhancements, bug fixes, further modularization and slim down etc... * about releases: start (again) the discussion and define a plan for issuing separately the framework from the applications Jacopo On Dec 31, 2013, at 1:55 PM, Adrian Crum <[hidden email]> wrote: > Maybe we can use the start of the new year as an opportunity to consider the future of OFBiz and update our road map: > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBADMIN/New+Features+Roadmap+-+Living+Document > > > -- > Adrian Crum > Sandglass Software > www.sandglass-software.com |
In reply to this post by Pierre Smits
On Jan 5, 2014, at 1:52 PM, Pierre Smits <[hidden email]> wrote: > *Re: slimdown* > The path set in the recent past regarding slim down is a good path. This > should be continued. But, slim down should not be about only focussing on > the framework. More visibility on the website should be created regarding > vision and roadmap. In the past also several apps/components/functions have > been earmarked as eligible for slimdown roadmap, but little actions have > been undertaken. I agree that a lot more still needs to be done, but we actually did a lot of progress in this directions if we look at release branches, rather than the trunk: in fact the new release branch 13.07, that will generate the new releases (the first one will be released in a few weeks), is considerably lighter that the previous releases. This trend can be better appreciated by considering the approx sizes of release tarballs: 09 releases: 58MB 10 releases: 93MB 11 releases: 112MB 12 releases: 113MB 13 releases: 83MB If I well remember, the slimdown effort started between 11 and 12: it took some time to stop the uncontrolled growth trend and move in the other direction. It is important to focus on quality: I still see too many commits that would not meet the minimum quality standards of any decent software company and I really would like to see this resolved; our goal should be that the quality of OFBiz code, and all its commits should shine in perfection. Jacopo |
In reply to this post by Pierre Smits
On Jan 5, 2014, at 1:52 PM, Pierre Smits <[hidden email]> wrote: > With regards to integration with other solutions I would like to see the > uptake of a solution like Apache Shiro regarding authentication, > authorization, etc. +1 Jacopo |
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