[OFBiz] Users - Re: would like to changethe, contentmanagementcomponent of OfBiz
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Andrew, thanks for reminding me to publish this. I have collected info about seven toolkits, You can find it from my blog at http://mytechrantings.blogspot.com, pretty long to put in mail. Also got a PDF file to download from there.
Late entry: http://javawebparts.sourceforge.net/ Java webparts, looks quite intresting too. There was one thing I went through when reading the messages Jaques forwarded. Lazslo: I have worked with that thing. Our company has open source the project to make RIA using Laszlo server. Out of experience I can say, it would not be suitable for use with Ofbiz becuase the LPS is huge and too heavy. Though the language used to describe the UI is XML, the O/P is flash. I think we should remain more cross platform using AJAX stuff. There is also another option to Lazslo i.e. WebORB but it too has the same problems.
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Re: [OFBiz] Users - Re: would like to changethe,contentmanagementcom
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>Lazslo: I have worked with that thing. Our company has open source the
project to make RIA using Laszlo server. Out of experience I can say, it would not be suitable for use with Ofbiz becuase the LPS >is huge and too heavy. Though the language used to describe the UI is XML, the O/P is flash. I think we should remain more cross platform using AJAX stuff. There is also another option to Lazslo i.e. >WebORB but it too has the same problems. Thanks Tohit for this information, many people are asking themselves about this point ! Jacques ----- Original Message ----- From: Rohit Rai To: [hidden email] Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2005 12:52 AM Subject: [OFBiz] Users - Re: would like to changethe,contentmanagementcomponent of OfBiz Andrew, thanks for reminding me to publish this. I have collected info about seven toolkits, You can find it from my blog at http://mytechrantings.blogspot.com, pretty long to put in mail. Also got a PDF file to download from there. Personally I find DWR & AjaxTags quite promising. Please read the stuff out and tell me what you think. I am mailing you the PDF. Late entry: http://javawebparts.sourceforge.net/ Java webparts, looks quite intresting too. There was one thing I went through when reading the messages Jaques forwarded. Lazslo: I have worked with that thing. Our company has open source the project to make RIA using Laszlo server. Out of experience I can say, it would not be suitable for use with Ofbiz becuase the LPS is huge and too heavy. Though the language used to describe the UI is XML, the O/P is flash. I think we should remain more cross platform using AJAX stuff. There is also another option to Lazslo i.e. WebORB but it too has the same problems. Rohit _______________________________________________ Users mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users _______________________________________________ Users mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users |
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In reply to this post by Rohit Rai
Hi! Jacques,
I am sorry! Either we have got too much communication difference or probably I am just too bad at english. I just don't get the point you are trying to put. last time I messed up this time I don't want to. So I will appreciate if you could be more specific.
Actually, I was going to write more on this point today cause was busy on a project yesterday.
Lazslo, is basically a presentation server that takes in XML input and gives out output in Flash. We were trying to make a RIA Generator as part of our R&D effort. That time I got to work with Lazslo. We have made a basic Java Application that takes in User Input as the data he wants to maintain and give the O/P in form of Lazslo XML files (.lzx) The process is very easy, specifically due to the fact that the LZX files are true XML files with predefined Lazslo tags.
The problem with this is. The Lazslo Presentation Server on Windows XP running on a Intel PIV 2.2Ghz with 256 MB DDR RAM takes around 8-10 mins to start and around 15 mins to actually deliver the first page. Also whenever you veisit a page for the first time there is a overhead of about 3 mins.
As compared to Ofbiz (Which runs pretty perfectly even on my Thinkpad) LPS is too much overload. Once I run LPS on the ThinkPad I am not able to even work on it. Its damn too sluggish.
The second point is it generates Flash O/P which can be only veiwed with the Flash plugin. While Ofbiz in current form can be used even in the Basic browsers and even applying AJAX will mean compatibility with most of the browsers.
I hope that explains the point I was mentioning there quite well. In any further queries you can ask me. Also you can have a look at our project at http://sourceforge.net/projects/rwadt
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Jacques Le Roux <[hidden email]> To: OFBiz Users / Usage Discussion <[hidden email]> Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 13:04:08 +0200 Subject: Re: [OFBiz] Users - Re: would like to changethe,contentmanagementcomponent of OfBiz >Lazslo: I have worked with that thing. Our company has open source the project to make RIA using Laszlo server. Out of experience I can say, it would not be suitable for use with Ofbiz becuase the LPS >is huge and too heavy. Though the language used to describe the UI is XML, the O/P is flash. I think we should remain more cross platform using AJAX stuff. There is also another option to Lazslo i.e. >WebORB but it too has the same problems. Thanks Tohit for this information, many people are asking themselves about this point ! Jacques _______________________________________________ Users mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users |
Re: [OFBiz] Users - Re: would like to changethe,contentmanagementcom
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Administrator
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Rohit,
>I am sorry! Either we have got too much communication difference or >probably I am just too bad at english. I just don't get the point you are >trying to put. last time I messed up this time I don't want to. So I will >appreciate if you could be more specific. Don't be sorry, my English is certainly worst than yours (but I got an excuse : I'm french ;o) >The problem with this is. The Lazslo Presentation Server on Windows XP >running on a Intel PIV 2.2Ghz with 256 MB DDR RAM takes around 8-10 mins to >start and around 15 mins to actually deliver the first page. Also whenever >you veisit a page for the first time there is a overhead of about 3 mins. Your explanations are very welcome : you are the first on this ML reporting real use of Lazslo and this reinforces some of my "a priori" against Lazslo and pro Ajax. Althougth (and specialy for this type of think) 256MB on XP is certainly a bit short. Quickness is the main but not the only reason : . As you said "it generates Flash O/P which can be only veiwed with the Flash plugin." . And Flash is proprietary so : specifications might change, or even Flash might disappear (don't laugh, who remembers the Eighties PC DB "standard" DBase III ? There are so much examples...) . Flash is not read by non graphic navigators (for blinds, by example) and *worst* by crawlers . And finally, Flash is really not a W3c standard (as opposed to CSS and XHTML - of course XML - and even *ECMAScript* and DOM) At this point I try to resume all the links we have got on this subject : Some Rich Web Application Development Tool (7 of them) http://mytechrantings.blogspot.com + http://javawebparts.sourceforge.net/ Java Rich Internet Applications http://www.canoo.com/ulc/ They also use Jira :o) see on : http://webtest.canoo.com/manual/WebTestHome.html A good Ajax demo (Rico) http://openrico.org/rico/demos.page Rico is based upon : http://prototype.conio.net/ I will make a page in the Wiki about all that, did I forgot something ? Jacques ----- Original Message ----- From: Rohit Rai To: [hidden email] Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2005 10:27 PM Subject: Re: [OFBiz] Users - Re: would like to changethe,contentmanagementcomponent of OfBiz Hi! Jacques, I am sorry! Either we have got too much communication difference or probably I am just too bad at english. I just don't get the point you are trying to put. last time I messed up this time I don't want to. So I will appreciate if you could be more specific. Actually, I was going to write more on this point today cause was busy on a project yesterday. Lazslo, is basically a presentation server that takes in XML input and gives out output in Flash. We were trying to make a RIA Generator as part of our R&D effort. That time I got to work with Lazslo. We have made a basic Java Application that takes in User Input as the data he wants to maintain and give the O/P in form of Lazslo XML files (.lzx) The process is very easy, specifically due to the fact that the LZX files are true XML files with predefined Lazslo tags. The problem with this is. The Lazslo Presentation Server on Windows XP running on a Intel PIV 2.2Ghz with 256 MB DDR RAM takes around 8-10 mins to start and around 15 mins to actually deliver the first page. Also whenever you veisit a page for the first time there is a overhead of about 3 mins. As compared to Ofbiz (Which runs pretty perfectly even on my Thinkpad) LPS is too much overload. Once I run LPS on the ThinkPad I am not able to even work on it. Its damn too sluggish. The second point is it generates Flash O/P which can be only veiwed with the Flash plugin. While Ofbiz in current form can be used even in the Basic browsers and even applying AJAX will mean compatibility with most of the browsers. I hope that explains the point I was mentioning there quite well. In any further queries you can ask me. Also you can have a look at our project at http://sourceforge.net/projects/rwadt ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Jacques Le Roux <[hidden email]> To: OFBiz Users / Usage Discussion < [hidden email]> Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 13:04:08 +0200 Subject: Re: [OFBiz] Users - Re: would like to changethe,contentmanagementcomponent of OfBiz >Lazslo: I have worked with that thing. Our company has open source the project to make RIA using Laszlo server. Out of experience I can say, it would not be suitable for use with Ofbiz becuase the LPS >is huge and too heavy. Though the language used to describe the UI is XML, the O/P is flash. I think we should remain more cross platform using AJAX stuff. There is also another option to Lazslo i.e. >WebORB but it too has the same problems. Thanks Tohit for this information, many people are asking themselves about this point ! Jacques _______________________________________________ Users mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users _______________________________________________ Users mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users |
Re: [OFBiz] Users - Presentation Layer [Re: would like to changethe, contentmanagementcomponent of OfBiz]
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Am Sonntag, 4. September 2005 02:23 schrieb Jacques Le Roux:
[...] > >The problem with this is. The Lazslo Presentation Server on Windows XP > >running on a Intel PIV 2.2Ghz with 256 MB DDR RAM takes around 8-10 mins > > to start and around 15 mins to actually deliver the first page. Also > > whenever you veisit a page for the first time there is a overhead of > > about 3 mins. The "performance" is indeed bad. 256 MB RAM is surely not enough for a J2EE application like OpenLaszlo and Windows. I have a very good performance experience with Flex on PowerPC G4 1,2GHz with 1280 MB RAM (development machine, not yet in production). > Your explanations are very welcome : you are the first on this ML reporting > real use of Lazslo and this reinforces some of my "a priori" against Lazslo > and pro Ajax. Althougth (and specialy for this type of think) 256MB on XP > is certainly a bit short. Quickness is the main but not the only reason : > > . As you said "it generates Flash O/P which can be only veiwed > with the Flash plugin." That does not have to be a disadvantage. Flash is more cross-browser than AJAX and AJAX is more cross-platform than Flash. Safari and Konqueror can't render most of the demos of openrico.org. This cross-browser vs. cross-platform ratio might change in future because of ongoing efforts to develop an open source Flash player. The cross-browser DHTML stuff is fragile and I can't see that it will change in future. > . And Flash is proprietary so : specifications might change, or even Flash > might disappear (don't laugh, who remembers the Eighties PC DB "standard" > DBase III ? There are so much examples...) but SWF is not closed, see http://www.osflash.org and http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/javascript/2002/05/24/swf_not_flash.html. > . Flash is not read by non graphic navigators (for blinds, by example) and > *worst* by crawlers You can use Flash's accessibility features: http://www.macromedia.com/macromedia/accessibility/features/flex/overview.html And you normally don't need crawles accessing your web applications (not web sites), but you can of course add other interfaces like HTML, WML, SOAP or XML-RPC to your applications. > . And finally, Flash is really not a W3c standard (as opposed to CSS and > XHTML - of course XML - and even *ECMAScript* and DOM) Not, it's not yet. Let's see what happens after Adobe has aquired Macromedia. Maybe Flash/SWF becomes a standard like PDF or PS. > At this point I try to resume all the links we have got on this subject : > > Some Rich Web Application Development Tool > (7 of them) http://mytechrantings.blogspot.com + > http://javawebparts.sourceforge.net/ > > Java Rich Internet Applications > http://www.canoo.com/ulc/ > They also use Jira :o) > see on : http://webtest.canoo.com/manual/WebTestHome.html > > A good Ajax demo (Rico) http://openrico.org/rico/demos.page > > Rico is based upon : http://prototype.conio.net/ > > I will make a page in the Wiki about all that, did I forgot something ? Maybe you find something useful on my list of RIA and RIA related technologies: Flash (SWF): ------------------------------------------------------------ Macromedia Flash http://www.macromedia.com/software/flash/ Macromedia Flex http://www.macromedia.com/software/flex/ Macromedia Central http://www.macromedia.com/software/central/ OpenLaszlo http://www.openlaszlo.org Snapp MX http://www.snappmx.com ------------------------------------------------------------ Java: ------------------------------------------------------------ Applets http://java.sun.com/applets/ ULC (UltraLightClient) http://www.canoo.com/ulc/ Casabac GUI Server (SWT) http://www.casabac.com ------------------------------------------------------------ XML/PDF: ------------------------------------------------------------ XDP (Adobe XML Data Package), Adobe LiveCycle Designer http://www.adobe.com/products/server/adobedesigner/ ------------------------------------------------------------ DHTML (HTML, JS, CSS): ------------------------------------------------------------ Ajax (Asynchronous JavaScript + XML) http://www.adaptivepath.com/publications/essays/archives/000385.php Casabac GUI Server (HTML) http://www.casabac.com NextApp Echo http://www.nextapp.com/products/echo/ DWR - Direct Web Remoting http://www.getahead.ltd.uk/dwr/ ------------------------------------------------------------ other: ------------------------------------------------------------ Bindows http://www.bindows.net ------------------------------------------------------------ related: ------------------------------------------------------------ XUL (XML User Interface Language) http://www.mozilla.org/projects/xul/ XAML (eXtensible Application Markup Language) http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnintlong/html/longhornch03.asp UIML (User Interface Markup Language) http://www.uiml.org SVG (Scalable Vector Graphics) http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/ Java Web Start http://java.sun.com/products/javawebstart/ SWT (Standard Widget Toolkit) http://www.eclipse.org/swt/ ------------------------------------------------------------ Oliver _______________________________________________ Users mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users |
Re: [OFBiz] Users - Presentation Layer [Re: would like to changethe,contentmanagementcom
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Olivier,
Thanks for all these informations. Il will put them also on an OFBiz Wiki page soon... > > . And finally, Flash is really not a W3c standard (as opposed to CSS and > > XHTML - of course XML - and even *ECMAScript* and DOM) > > Not, it's not yet. Let's see what happens after Adobe has aquired Macromedia. > Maybe Flash/SWF becomes a standard like PDF or PS. I meaned W3C (open) standards, but you are right PDF and PS are also standarts... Perhaps as Firefox 1.5 includes natively SVG, this technology must be also regarded ? http://www.adobe.com/svg/ Jacques PS : > http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/javascript/2002/05/24/swf_not_flash.html. I just read this page, very interesting. Just one thing : Macromedia is not W3C ;o) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Oliver Lietz" <[hidden email]> > Am Sonntag, 4. September 2005 02:23 schrieb Jacques Le Roux: > [...] > > >The problem with this is. The Lazslo Presentation Server on Windows XP > > >running on a Intel PIV 2.2Ghz with 256 MB DDR RAM takes around 8-10 mins > > > to start and around 15 mins to actually deliver the first page. Also > > > whenever you veisit a page for the first time there is a overhead of > > > about 3 mins. > > The "performance" is indeed bad. 256 MB RAM is surely not enough for a J2EE > application like OpenLaszlo and Windows. I have a very good performance > experience with Flex on PowerPC G4 1,2GHz with 1280 MB RAM (development > machine, not yet in production). > > > Your explanations are very welcome : you are the first on this ML reporting > > real use of Lazslo and this reinforces some of my "a priori" against Lazslo > > and pro Ajax. Althougth (and specialy for this type of think) 256MB on XP > > is certainly a bit short. Quickness is the main but not the only reason : > > > > . As you said "it generates Flash O/P which can be only veiwed > > with the Flash plugin." > > That does not have to be a disadvantage. Flash is more cross-browser than AJAX > and AJAX is more cross-platform than Flash. Safari and Konqueror can't render > most of the demos of openrico.org. This cross-browser vs. cross-platform > ratio might change in future because of ongoing efforts to develop an open > source Flash player. The cross-browser DHTML stuff is fragile and I can't see > that it will change in future. > > > . And Flash is proprietary so : specifications might change, or even Flash > > might disappear (don't laugh, who remembers the Eighties PC DB "standard" > > DBase III ? There are so much examples...) > > but SWF is not closed, see http://www.osflash.org and > http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/javascript/2002/05/24/swf_not_flash.html. > > > . Flash is not read by non graphic navigators (for blinds, by example) and > > *worst* by crawlers > > You can use Flash's accessibility features: > http://www.macromedia.com/macromedia/accessibility/features/flex/overview.html > > And you normally don't need crawles accessing your web applications (not web > sites), but you can of course add other interfaces like HTML, WML, SOAP or > XML-RPC to your applications. > > > . And finally, Flash is really not a W3c standard (as opposed to CSS and > > XHTML - of course XML - and even *ECMAScript* and DOM) > > Not, it's not yet. Let's see what happens after Adobe has aquired Macromedia. > Maybe Flash/SWF becomes a standard like PDF or PS. > > > At this point I try to resume all the links we have got on this subject : > > > > Some Rich Web Application Development Tool > > (7 of them) http://mytechrantings.blogspot.com + > > http://javawebparts.sourceforge.net/ > > > > Java Rich Internet Applications > > http://www.canoo.com/ulc/ > > They also use Jira :o) > > see on : http://webtest.canoo.com/manual/WebTestHome.html > > > > A good Ajax demo (Rico) http://openrico.org/rico/demos.page > > > > Rico is based upon : http://prototype.conio.net/ > > > > I will make a page in the Wiki about all that, did I forgot something ? > > Maybe you find something useful on my list of RIA and RIA related > technologies: > > Flash (SWF): > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Macromedia Flash > http://www.macromedia.com/software/flash/ > > Macromedia Flex > http://www.macromedia.com/software/flex/ > > Macromedia Central > http://www.macromedia.com/software/central/ > > OpenLaszlo > http://www.openlaszlo.org > > Snapp MX > http://www.snappmx.com > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Java: > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Applets > http://java.sun.com/applets/ > > ULC (UltraLightClient) > http://www.canoo.com/ulc/ > > Casabac GUI Server (SWT) > http://www.casabac.com > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > XML/PDF: > ------------------------------------------------------------ > XDP (Adobe XML Data Package), Adobe LiveCycle Designer > http://www.adobe.com/products/server/adobedesigner/ > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > DHTML (HTML, JS, CSS): > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Ajax (Asynchronous JavaScript + XML) > http://www.adaptivepath.com/publications/essays/archives/000385.php > > Casabac GUI Server (HTML) > http://www.casabac.com > > NextApp Echo > http://www.nextapp.com/products/echo/ > > DWR - Direct Web Remoting > http://www.getahead.ltd.uk/dwr/ > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > other: > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Bindows > http://www.bindows.net > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > related: > ------------------------------------------------------------ > XUL (XML User Interface Language) > http://www.mozilla.org/projects/xul/ > > XAML (eXtensible Application Markup Language) > > > UIML (User Interface Markup Language) > http://www.uiml.org > > SVG (Scalable Vector Graphics) > http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/ > > Java Web Start > http://java.sun.com/products/javawebstart/ > > SWT (Standard Widget Toolkit) > http://www.eclipse.org/swt/ > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Oliver > > > _______________________________________________ Users mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users |
Re: [OFBiz] Users - Re: would like to changethe, contentmanagementcomponent of OfBiz
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In reply to this post by Rohit Rai
Rohit, Your English looks fine, except one little part: instead of "damn too sluggish" it should probably be "too damn sluggish". I hear you on this one, that's one of my pet peeves and even OFBiz is a little slow for me sometimes (wish we could do something about the Tomcat initialization times for example...). -David On Sep 3, 2005, at 9:27 PM, Rohit Rai wrote: > Hi! Jacques, > > I am sorry! Either we have got too much communication difference or > probably I am just too bad at english. I just don't get the point > you are trying to put. last time I messed up this time I don't want > to. So I will appreciate if you could be more specific. > > Actually, I was going to write more on this point today cause was > busy on a project yesterday. > > Lazslo, is basically a presentation server that takes in XML input > and gives out output in Flash. We were trying to make a RIA > Generator as part of our R&D effort. That time I got to work with > Lazslo. We have made a basic Java Application that takes in User > Input as the data he wants to maintain and give the O/P in form of > Lazslo XML files (.lzx) The process is very easy, specifically due > to the fact that the LZX files are true XML files with predefined > Lazslo tags. > > The problem with this is. The Lazslo Presentation Server on Windows > XP running on a Intel PIV 2.2Ghz with 256 MB DDR RAM takes around > 8-10 mins to start and around 15 mins to actually deliver the first > page. Also whenever you veisit a page for the first time there is a > overhead of about 3 mins. > > As compared to Ofbiz (Which runs pretty perfectly even on my > Thinkpad) LPS is too much overload. Once I run LPS on the ThinkPad > I am not able to even work on it. Its damn too sluggish. > > The second point is it generates Flash O/P which can be only veiwed > with the Flash plugin. While Ofbiz in current form can be used even > in the Basic browsers and even applying AJAX will mean > compatibility with most of the browsers. > > I hope that explains the point I was mentioning there quite well. > In any further queries you can ask me. Also you can have a look at > our project at http://sourceforge.net/projects/rwadt > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Jacques Le Roux <[hidden email]> > To: OFBiz Users / Usage Discussion < [hidden email]> > Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 13:04:08 +0200 > Subject: Re: [OFBiz] Users - Re: would like to > changethe,contentmanagementcomponent of OfBiz > >Lazslo: I have worked with that thing. Our company has open source > the > project to make RIA using Laszlo server. Out of experience I can > say, it > would not be suitable for use with Ofbiz becuase the LPS >is huge > and too > heavy. Though the language used to describe the UI is XML, the O/P > is flash. > I think we should remain more cross platform using AJAX stuff. > There is also > another option to Lazslo i.e. >WebORB but it too has the same > problems. > > Thanks Tohit for this information, many people are asking > themselves about > this point ! > > Jacques > > > > _______________________________________________ > Users mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users _______________________________________________ Users mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.ofbiz.org/mailman/listinfo/users |
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