Re: svn commit: r919905 - /ofbiz/site/index.html

[Jacques Le Roux]

I think Jacopo, and I guess most of us, was/is expecting a http://www.apache.org/foundation/glossary.html#LazyConsensus (also called
"Consensus Gauging through Silence" at http://www.apache.org/foundation/voting.html#LazyConsensus)

Jacques

From: "Jacopo Cappellato" <[hidden email]>

> On Mar 8, 2010, at 10:45 AM, Hans Bakker wrote:
>
>> It would also be interesting to know what the opinion of our new PMC
>> chair Jacopo is, he is awfully quiet. When we do not agree, he has to
>> take a decision.
>
> We should all immediately stop to throw out in this public list incorrect statements about fictitious rules and policies: it is
> not a great example of professionalism as committers and PMC members if we clearly demonstrate that we don't even take the time to
> read the few small pages that describe how things in the Apache Software Foundation actually work, and also pretend to know how
> things are supposed to work.
>
> A mandatory reading is this:
>
> http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html
> http://www.apache.org/foundation/voting.html
>
> Of course we should all already have studied it in great detail, but this is clearly and sadly untrue.
>
> Since I start to loose my faith that you will ready this, here is a small part of it:
>
> ===================================
> The PMC as a whole is the entity that controls the project, nobody else.
> The Chair of a Project Management Committee (PMC) is appointed by the Board from the PMC Members. The PMC as a whole is the entity
> that controls and leads the project. The Chair is the interface between the Board and the Project.
> ===================================
>
> You want me to take decisions to resolve this fight? It is easy to resolve, but it doesn't require me becoming a dictator. The ASF
> voting policies already clearly explain what needs to be done:
>
> ===================================
> Votes on code modifications follow a different model. In this scenario, a negative vote constitutes a veto, which cannot be
> overridden.
> ===================================
>
> Since this incident was originated by your commit, and since Scott is a PMC member whose vote is binding and since he clearly
> objected to your commit... you should now know what you *had* to do.
> That was easy, wasn't it? Just a matter of reading rules that you should have read when you became a PMC member, a lot of time
> ago.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Jacopo
>
>

[Jacopo Cappellato-4]

Yep, thanks Jacques.
The essential point we seem to ignore is that *one* negative vote/objection from a PMC member on a commit is enough to require a revert. This is implemented both in standard voting for proposals for code changes and in lazy consensus objections.

Jacopo


On Mar 8, 2010, at 12:15 PM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:

> I think Jacopo, and I guess most of us, was/is expecting a http://www.apache.org/foundation/glossary.html#LazyConsensus (also called "Consensus Gauging through Silence" at http://www.apache.org/foundation/voting.html#LazyConsensus)
>
> Jacques
>
> From: "Jacopo Cappellato" <[hidden email]>
>> On Mar 8, 2010, at 10:45 AM, Hans Bakker wrote:
>>
>>> It would also be interesting to know what the opinion of our new PMC
>>> chair Jacopo is, he is awfully quiet. When we do not agree, he has to
>>> take a decision.
>>
>> We should all immediately stop to throw out in this public list incorrect statements about fictitious rules and policies: it is not a great example of professionalism as committers and PMC members if we clearly demonstrate that we don't even take the time to read the few small pages that describe how things in the Apache Software Foundation actually work, and also pretend to know how things are supposed to work.
>>
>> A mandatory reading is this:
>>
>> http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html
>> http://www.apache.org/foundation/voting.html
>>
>> Of course we should all already have studied it in great detail, but this is clearly and sadly untrue.
>>
>> Since I start to loose my faith that you will ready this, here is a small part of it:
>>
>> ===================================
>> The PMC as a whole is the entity that controls the project, nobody else.
>> The Chair of a Project Management Committee (PMC) is appointed by the Board from the PMC Members. The PMC as a whole is the entity that controls and leads the project. The Chair is the interface between the Board and the Project.
>> ===================================
>>
>> You want me to take decisions to resolve this fight? It is easy to resolve, but it doesn't require me becoming a dictator. The ASF voting policies already clearly explain what needs to be done:
>>
>> ===================================
>> Votes on code modifications follow a different model. In this scenario, a negative vote constitutes a veto, which cannot be overridden.
>> ===================================
>>
>> Since this incident was originated by your commit, and since Scott is a PMC member whose vote is binding and since he clearly objected to your commit... you should now know what you *had* to do.
>> That was easy, wasn't it? Just a matter of reading rules that you should have read when you became a PMC member, a lot of time ago.
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>> Jacopo
>>
>
>

[Ruth Hoffman-2]

Hi Scott:
Yep, some of us are just ignorant stooges easily amused by the
meaningless wasting of time. IMO, to be any other way would be arrogant
and too judgmental.

Hope you have a great day!
Regards,
Ruth

Scott Gray wrote:

> I'm constantly amazed by how little you know about how Apache projects operate.
>
> http://www.apache.org/ contains an absolute a lot of information and more than anything I suggest you read the pages under "How it works".
>
> I can't imagine why you would possibly be enjoying this thread but I guess some people are just that way inclined.
>
> Regards
> Scott
>
> On 7/03/2010, at 11:04 AM, Ruth Hoffman wrote:
>
>  
>> Hi Scott:
>> What private list? I thought this was a transparent process that everyone should have access to.
>> BTW, you guys are a real "hoot". I'm enjoying every bit of this thread.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Ruth
>> ----------------------------------------------------
>> Find me on the web at http://www.myofbiz.com or Google keyword "myofbiz"
>> [hidden email]
>>
>> Scott Gray wrote:
>>    
>>> Jacques, you are mis-interpreting the contents of that ASF document and I really would prefer it if you kept your thoughts to the private list.  This way we can correct you before you start scaring people away from marketing the project for us.
>>>
>>> Thank you
>>> Scott
>>>
>>> On 7/03/2010, at 2:20 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>
>>>  
>>>      
>>>> Hey guys,
>>>>
>>>> This could be so easy :/
>>>>
>>>> Hans agreed to give the credentials to all commiters but he asked us to send him a demand.
>>>> We don't need to ask, if it's open Hans sould send all commiters the credential to share apache_ofbiz Twitter account.
>>>> I should be pretty clear at this moment. The works "Apache" "OFBiz" and the phrase "Apache OFBiz" are ASF trademarks: http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/ (I use references to sections of this page in the following)
>>>> So they can't be used in domain name (cf. section "Using Apache trademarks in domain names"). Hans can't use http://twitter.com/apache_ofbiz alone as an individual or for his company.
>>>> So please, for the last time, Hans before I ring Shane Curcuru's bell (current VP, Apache Brand Management), simply send credentials to all commiters and the war is over (Note that, though I don't think it's the way to go, I already asked you to send me credentials as you suggested, but did not receive anything yet). Then I suggest to put the button like you did Hans. It's a *great idea* and I'm sure you will appreciate to have an help on feeding the tweets as you already suggested.
>>>>
>>>> http://twitter.com/apache_ofbiz is a special case because not only it uses ASF trademark in domain name but it also shows it on the page, along with OFBiz logo not going back to http://ofbiz.apache.org/ (cf. section "Using the Apache Foo (and similar) graphic logos")
>>>> But I don't see a reason why the rule for the domain should not apply also to
>>>> http://twitter.com/ofbiz_help
>>>> http://twitter.com/ofbizbyhotwax
>>>> And Hans just followed the path actually... (is there other cases?)
>>>>
>>>> Some other points which are related and worth to be noted
>>>> Hotwax Media must care about how they use the OFBiz logo in their pages at http://www.hotwaxmedia.com. The rule is that if it's not adapted (like Hans did for OFBiz in Thailand at , it should only link back to http://ofbiz.apache.org/
>>>> Same for the footer of http://www.antwebsystems.com/control/main (the "OFBiz feather" used for the tweet could be ok if all commiters get credentials and the PMC agree is the OFBiz official Tweeter account). Now http://www.ofbiz.in.th/ is wrong also as long it's not on the ASF infra (ofbiz should not be used in domain name outsided of ASF infrastructure, is there other cases?)
>>>>
>>>> It's time to clean the house, before all this becomes unmanageable (proliferation). I made my best to explain the rules, if you see a flaw in my reasoning please correct me. If you see other cases that should be corrected, chime in, it's your duty!
>>>>
>>>> And please also understand that it's really not pleaseant for me (or anyone else I guess) to play the cop and spend so much time on this (for persons out of PMC, we already shared some about this privately). I dot it only because I'm a third party (ie not HWM affiliated nor Ant Web) and I like things to be clear and no injustices prevail. If we continue to ignore this facts they will finally blow up in our faces (as this Tweeter account issue being to show) and nobody will win anything. There are rules, why not simply follow them, is that so hard?
>>>>
>>>> Jacques
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: "Tim Ruppert" <[hidden email]>
>>>>    
>>>>        
>>>>> Hans, please revert this one too - sorry.  It wouldn't make sense for  all service providers to do this - so please let's not keep doing this  stuff.
>>>>>
>>>>> What i would recommend for this kind of stuff, if we need to list it  at all, would be to enhance the service providers page on the wiki. I  mentioned this earlier but maybe we should add a full page, linked  from the service provider page, where people can put this type of  info?  I personally think this is what your own website is for, but  I'm all for enhancing everyone's ability to get the word out.
>>>>>
>>>>> What does everyone think of that as a place to promote yourself?
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Ruppert
>>>>> --
>>>>> Tim Ruppert
>>>>> HotWax Media
>>>>> http://www.hotwaxmedia.com
>>>>>
>>>>> o:801.649.6594
>>>>> f:801.649.6595
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mar 6, 2010, at 7:22 PM, Scott Gray <[hidden email]>  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>      
>>>>>          
>>>>>> I'm only going to send one email about this, If anyone else cares  they can push it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is news:
>>>>>>        
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>> <a href="http://www.twitter.com/apache_ofbiz/" target="_blank">Now  OFBiz on <b>TWITTER</b>, follow the news from an enduser perspective</a>, up to one tweet per day.
>>>>>>>          
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>> A link to your home page is not:
>>>>>>        
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>> You can also promote OFBiz at your site with this news, look <a  href="http://www.antwebsystems.com">here for an example.</a>
>>>>>>>          
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>> Why you are constantly trying to push the boundaries I have no idea.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>> Scott
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 6/03/2010, at 6:14 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>        
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>> Author: hansbak
>>>>>>> Date: Sun Mar  7 01:14:19 2010
>>>>>>> New Revision: 919905
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> URL: http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?rev=919905&view=rev
>>>>>>> Log:
>>>>>>> announcing the ofbiz twitter news now in line with the other news  offerings.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Modified:
>>>>>>> ofbiz/site/index.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Modified: ofbiz/site/index.html
>>>>>>> URL: http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/ofbiz/site/index.html?rev=919905&r1=919904&r2=919905&view=diff
>>>>>>> === === === =====================================================================
>>>>>>> --- ofbiz/site/index.html (original)
>>>>>>> +++ ofbiz/site/index.html Sun Mar  7 01:14:19 2010
>>>>>>> @@ -237,6 +237,7 @@
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>          <h2>In the News</h2>
>>>>>>>            <ul>
>>>>>>> +                  <li><a href="http://www.twitter.com/ apache_ofbiz/" target="_blank">Now OFBiz on <b>TWITTER</b>, follow  the news from an enduser perspective</a>, up to one tweet per day.  You can also promote OFBiz at your site with this news, look <a href="http://www.antwebsystems.com">here for an example.</a></li>
>>>>>>>                <li><a href="http://www.hotwaxmedia.com/apache-ofbiz-blog/ofbiz-tutorial-implementing-a-product-pdf-export/ " target="_blank">OFBiz Tutorial – Implementing a Product PDF  export</a> on <a href="http://www.hotwaxmedia.com/apache-ofbiz-blo g/" target="_blank">HotWax Media Blog</a></li>
>>>>>>>                <li><a href="http://www.hotwaxmedia.com/apache-ofbiz-blog/ofbiz-tutorial-implementing-a-product-csv-export/ " target="_blank">OFBiz Tutorial – Implementing a Product CSV  export</a> on <a href="http://www.hotwaxmedia.com/apache-ofbiz-blo g/" target="_blank">HotWax Media Blog</a></li>
>>>>>>>                <li><a href="http://www.hotwaxmedia.com/apache-ofbiz-blog/ofbiz-tutorial-enhancing-the-product-list-screen/ " target="_blank">OFBiz Tutorial – Enhancing the Product list  screen</a> on <a href="http://www.hotwaxmedia.com/apache-ofbiz-blo g/" target="_blank">HotWax Media Blog</a></li>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>          
>>>>>>>              
>>>>    
>>>>        
>>>  
>>>      
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